Author Topic: Mortgage Payoff Club!!  (Read 425945 times)

indentured4now

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Re: Mortgage Payoff Club!!
« Reply #1400 on: November 26, 2017, 06:55:30 PM »
@Neustache,   Congratulations on paying it off and winning your freedom!

Neustache

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Re: Mortgage Payoff Club!!
« Reply #1401 on: November 26, 2017, 08:16:36 PM »
@Neustache,   Congratulations on paying it off and winning your freedom!

Thank you everyone!  I already feel the freedom.  Daughter is sick, normally I'd fret about calling in tomorrow.  Nope!  Did find a sub, though, so I feel good about not being there.  :D

Dicey

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Re: Mortgage Payoff Club!!
« Reply #1402 on: November 26, 2017, 09:42:24 PM »
There is not now, nor will there ever be, freedom from property taxes, maintenance, or utilities. If you pay off your mortgage, the bank can't foreclose on your house, 'tis true. If you fail to pay your taxes, your county tax assessor can auction it right out from under you. Can't pay your utilities? Good luck with that. The utility companies reserve the right to shut off your water, gas, and power. What? You say your roof is caving in, your heater went out, the plumbing leaks and you don't have the money for repairs? So sad...

If you save/invest your money first, THEN pay off your mortgage, the odds are much more in your favor. If you don't understand why,  pleeeeease don't prepay another penny on your mortgage until you do.

Personally, people like b42 and I (and more every day) are grateful someone taught us this math and we were open minded enough to embrace it. We want to help others as we have been helped. If you understand this concept and are stuffing your investment accounts full to bursting first, then hooray for you! If you're just doing it without a clear understanding of the math, then  just know that it's gonna cost you more and take you longer to reach FIRE. That's fine for a lot of people, but we're not spending time on this forum seeking the longer path to FIRE, are we?

BTW, to those who say you can remortgage later, there are catches to that strategy.

1. The best rates and terms are typically for original acquisition loans. i.e. when you first buy the house.
2. It's easier to qualify for a mortgage when you're still drawing a steady paycheck.
3. I'm not a CPA, but I am aware that there limits to the deductibility of money borrowed on a home beyond original home acquisition cost. I believe it's generally $100k if  married or $50k if single. Should you decide to pull say, $250k out of your house for living expenses at a later date, it's going to cost you more because only part of it will be deductible. Consult a tax professional for further detalis.
4. These historically low mortgage rates will not last forever.
5. In the years to come, when rates normalize, people who still have cheap-ass mortgage loans are going to be laughing all the way to the bank. Try to be one of them.
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Askel

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Re: Mortgage Payoff Club!!
« Reply #1403 on: November 27, 2017, 07:41:47 AM »
Sure, I did have some well thought out reasons for paying off my mortgage early.

But now I think I'm going to pay off my mortgage just because it makes the DO NOT PAY club so comically angry. 

I'm looking forward to another 6 posts detailing how dumb I am. 

FWIW: I'm in the final count down. 12 months to go and I'm free. 
"nevertheless, my desire to just be a FUCKING IDIOT all day long is rapidly overtaking my ability to FUNCTION"  -tristan a. farnon, "A Comedy Crisis"

boarder42

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Re: Mortgage Payoff Club!!
« Reply #1404 on: November 27, 2017, 07:56:09 AM »
You can certainly take on debt regardless of the interest rate. If you hate having a paid off house, get another mortgage on it. It really is that simple. I get your point that you think a sub 4% interest rate is the bees knees...but to me it just sounds crazy. I don't want to pay it! I would be as likely to acquire debt by taking out a second mortgage at 4% as I am at 15%...which is to say not likely at all. But if you love to be in debt, then go right ahead.

Not one of the people in the don't pay off your mortgage thread is there because they love debt. It's a math equation. You need to learn alot because you have posted incorrectly in both of those threads and show a clear lack of open mindedness to learn anything against what you Believe or feel. Not a single one of us would advocate for a mortgage at 10% let alone 15. And it's likely closer to 7-8% or less depending on some factors.

Youíve made your point in this thread over and over and still, people are paying off their mortgages! Whatís wrong with them?! Could it be that they fully understand the math and just donít care? That they weigh their peace of mind more heavily than an interest arbitrage play?

No, they must not have heard your preaching. That must be it.

there is a new poster in this thread who is trying to determine what is best for them.  Its quite easy to get locked into a group think mentality and join other "like minded" people with out truly weighing or understanding all the real options and how they impact you.  Which can be seen from the multiple posts made by this poster in both threads.   sure there are many here who thought this thru.  But you all should be telling people to understand it all before you just include them in the group b/c they must have thought it thru.  I'd be the first to question someone with a 7% mortgage in the dont pay off your mortgage club as to what their mentality was behind it.  But this thread is doing a disservice to the community at large if they react in the way you did to my comments above which did not indicate you shouldnt pay down your mortage it in fact gave a scenario in which i would pay down my mortgage. 
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protostache

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Re: Mortgage Payoff Club!!
« Reply #1405 on: November 27, 2017, 08:08:37 AM »
You can certainly take on debt regardless of the interest rate. If you hate having a paid off house, get another mortgage on it. It really is that simple. I get your point that you think a sub 4% interest rate is the bees knees...but to me it just sounds crazy. I don't want to pay it! I would be as likely to acquire debt by taking out a second mortgage at 4% as I am at 15%...which is to say not likely at all. But if you love to be in debt, then go right ahead.

Not one of the people in the don't pay off your mortgage thread is there because they love debt. It's a math equation. You need to learn alot because you have posted incorrectly in both of those threads and show a clear lack of open mindedness to learn anything against what you Believe or feel. Not a single one of us would advocate for a mortgage at 10% let alone 15. And it's likely closer to 7-8% or less depending on some factors.

Youíve made your point in this thread over and over and still, people are paying off their mortgages! Whatís wrong with them?! Could it be that they fully understand the math and just donít care? That they weigh their peace of mind more heavily than an interest arbitrage play?

No, they must not have heard your preaching. That must be it.

there is a new poster in this thread who is trying to determine what is best for them.  Its quite easy to get locked into a group think mentality and join other "like minded" people with out truly weighing or understanding all the real options and how they impact you.  Which can be seen from the multiple posts made by this poster in both threads.   sure there are many here who thought this thru.  But you all should be telling people to understand it all before you just include them in the group b/c they must have thought it thru.  I'd be the first to question someone with a 7% mortgage in the dont pay off your mortgage club as to what their mentality was behind it.  But this thread is doing a disservice to the community at large if they react in the way you did to my comments above which did not indicate you shouldnt pay down your mortage it in fact gave a scenario in which i would pay down my mortgage.

I 100% agree with you that people should think it through entirely before making a decision. I'm suggesting, perhaps more causticly than necessary since I just read every post in the thread including your basic message half a dozen times, that a 29 page thread full of people tracking their progress toward and eventually celebrating their accomplishment of one branch of that decision tree isn't the place to be mounting a campaign for the other branch.

I think the most appropriate course of action would be a sticky thread that links to this thread, the various "starting balance" payoff threads, as well as the "don't pay off your mortgage" club and all of the other super long, incredibly detailed "should I or shouldn't I, how bad is it?" conversations that have happened in the past. That way we could have one place to point people when they ask "should I or shouldn't I" instead of posting the same things repeatedly and having conversations that span multiple concurrent threads. If, after reading all of the material linked from that sticky, people still have questions, they can make a case study.

boarder42

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Re: Mortgage Payoff Club!!
« Reply #1406 on: November 27, 2017, 08:13:28 AM »
You can certainly take on debt regardless of the interest rate. If you hate having a paid off house, get another mortgage on it. It really is that simple. I get your point that you think a sub 4% interest rate is the bees knees...but to me it just sounds crazy. I don't want to pay it! I would be as likely to acquire debt by taking out a second mortgage at 4% as I am at 15%...which is to say not likely at all. But if you love to be in debt, then go right ahead.

Not one of the people in the don't pay off your mortgage thread is there because they love debt. It's a math equation. You need to learn alot because you have posted incorrectly in both of those threads and show a clear lack of open mindedness to learn anything against what you Believe or feel. Not a single one of us would advocate for a mortgage at 10% let alone 15. And it's likely closer to 7-8% or less depending on some factors.

Youíve made your point in this thread over and over and still, people are paying off their mortgages! Whatís wrong with them?! Could it be that they fully understand the math and just donít care? That they weigh their peace of mind more heavily than an interest arbitrage play?

No, they must not have heard your preaching. That must be it.

there is a new poster in this thread who is trying to determine what is best for them.  Its quite easy to get locked into a group think mentality and join other "like minded" people with out truly weighing or understanding all the real options and how they impact you.  Which can be seen from the multiple posts made by this poster in both threads.   sure there are many here who thought this thru.  But you all should be telling people to understand it all before you just include them in the group b/c they must have thought it thru.  I'd be the first to question someone with a 7% mortgage in the dont pay off your mortgage club as to what their mentality was behind it.  But this thread is doing a disservice to the community at large if they react in the way you did to my comments above which did not indicate you shouldnt pay down your mortage it in fact gave a scenario in which i would pay down my mortgage.

I 100% agree with you that people should think it through entirely before making a decision. I'm suggesting, perhaps more causticly than necessary since I just read every post in the thread including your basic message half a dozen times, that a 29 page thread full of people tracking their progress toward and eventually celebrating their accomplishment of one branch of that decision tree isn't the place to be mounting a campaign for the other branch.

I think the most appropriate course of action would be a sticky thread that links to this thread, the various "starting balance" payoff threads, as well as the "don't pay off your mortgage" club and all of the other super long, incredibly detailed "should I or shouldn't I, how bad is it?" conversations that have happened in the past. That way we could have one place to point people when they ask "should I or shouldn't I" instead of posting the same things repeatedly and having conversations that span multiple concurrent threads. If, after reading all of the material linked from that sticky, people still have questions, they can make a case study.

this is what i've recommended to that poster - b/c i'm sure you can see just from the post made here there is a lack of understanding.  Then go check out their post in the Dont pay off your mortgage thread and you will see an even greater distance from understanding even some of the most basic FIRE principals not even regarding carrying a mortgage or otherwise. 

that being said i bit my tongue on bbubs original post about being able to get a mortgage whenever - but could not when a new person bit on that like it was a reality.  The reality in all likelihood is we will not see these rates again in 30 years time and that this is a bottom.  But if it isnt a bottom those with or without mortgage could dip back in and get the rates again.  IF it is and you've paid off your low fixed debt then you've cut off a possible insane deal and that statement should not be proliferated as the truth.  b/c no one knows what rates will do but in paying down a mortgage you have cut off your flexiblity should they rise.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2017, 08:16:11 AM by boarder42 »
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farmecologist

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Re: Mortgage Payoff Club!!
« Reply #1407 on: November 27, 2017, 09:44:48 AM »

Frankly, the intent of this thread is a support group for those that have already made the decision to pay off their mortgage...regardless of the reasoning.  I think we have went over this before...many times.  The arguments for or against just don't seem to belong here.

Perhaps we need a thread for those that are thinking about paying it off....but have not made a decision yet??

protostache

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Re: Mortgage Payoff Club!!
« Reply #1408 on: November 27, 2017, 09:50:07 AM »

Frankly, the intent of this thread is a support group for those that have already made the decision to pay off their mortgage...regardless of the reasoning.  I think we have went over this before...many times.  The arguments for or against just don't seem to belong here.

Perhaps we need a thread for those that are thinking about paying it off....but have not made a decision yet??

Yes, this is my suggestion also. This is a common enough topic that a sticky thread is warranted, even if it just links out to the various on-going threads.

couponvan

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Re: Mortgage Payoff Club!!
« Reply #1409 on: November 27, 2017, 10:07:39 AM »
I feel like I've commented before, but my 2 cents is that once mortgage is below $50K, the mental peace of mind and ability to change the property insurance deductible to a higher minimum makes it financially worth it to prepay. (i.e. a $10K deductible on a $500K house costs approximately $750 less per year than a $1K deductible in my area.) Also, for US FAFSA college financial aid purposes, assets are assessed at a 5-7% rate for college, whereas the equity in your home is not included as an asset available for college funding. So if you have excess after-tax assets (not in a 401(k)/403(b) etc.), and you might qualify for financial aid otherwise, it can make sense to move that $ into your home equity. During the college years, our plan is to only contribute to the 401(k) up to the match and any extra after tuition costs will go into prepaying the mortgage. We're at $219K. We're also holding payoffs until we see how much college will be costing and are sitting on $70K in liquid assets which could be used for mortgage payoffs.
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indentured4now

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Re: Mortgage Payoff Club!!
« Reply #1410 on: November 27, 2017, 07:31:50 PM »
Sure, I did have some well thought out reasons for paying off my mortgage early.

But now I think I'm going to pay off my mortgage just because it makes the DO NOT PAY club so comically angry. 

I'm looking forward to another 6 posts detailing how dumb I am. 

FWIW: I'm in the final count down. 12 months to go and I'm free.

Or maybe a re-make of the Miller Lite ads of old... Instead of "Tastes Great!  Less Filling!"    It'll be...  "DUMB!   FREE!   DUMB!!  FREE!!   DUMB!!!   FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!"

Askel

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Re: Mortgage Payoff Club!!
« Reply #1411 on: November 28, 2017, 05:09:37 AM »
It's a floor wax, AND a dessert topping! 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPO8PqHGWFU
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theadvicist

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Re: Mortgage Payoff Club!!
« Reply #1412 on: November 28, 2017, 06:53:36 AM »
I too am so sick of the endless, ďdo the math!Ē posts. Why do you need to come and ruins peopleís fun? We are not stupid little people who need you to come and educate us, thank you. We have made our decisions and do not need rescuing from them.

For me, the main issue is that in many countries (mine included) it does make financial sense to pay off your mortgage. Did you know that? Shall I wade into the ďdonít pay off your mortgage threadĒ and educate people?

There is not now, nor will there ever be, freedom from property taxes, maintenance, or utilities. If you pay off your mortgage, the bank can't foreclose on your house, 'tis true. If you fail to pay your taxes, your county tax assessor can auction it right out from under you. Can't pay your utilities? Good luck with that. The utility companies reserve the right to shut off your water, gas, and power. What? You say your roof is caving in, your heater went out, the plumbing leaks and you don't have the money for repairs? So sad...
Not true in the UK. Once the bank has no claim on your home, no one does. Technically you could go to prison for non payment of a small tax called Council Tax (£118 a month for us), but only if you refuse to pay it. If you canít pay it through financial difficulty you are exempted. The test is based on income, so if times really were that lean, you would qualify for the exemption. If times were so bad you couldnít afford utilities, you certainly wonít be able to pay rent, so thatís kind of moot. And again, in the UK, you would qualify for help if things were that bad.

The rest of my responses are in bold below.

BTW, to those who say you can remortgage later, there are catches to that strategy.

1. The best rates and terms are typically for original acquisition loans. i.e. when you first buy the house. again, not true in the UK. The best rates are for those with a small loan to value ratio. By paying my mortgage down to 50% of the appraised value my rate went from 5.49% to 1.99%

2. It's easier to qualify for a mortgage when you're still drawing a steady paycheck. this i agree with

3. I'm not a CPA, but I am aware that there limits to the deductibility of money borrowed on a home beyond original home acquisition cost. I believe it's generally $100k if  married or $50k if single. Should you decide to pull say, $250k out of your house for living expenses at a later date, it's going to cost you more because only part of it will be deductible. Consult a tax professional for further detalis. tax relief on mortgage interest was abolished here about 30 years ago

4. These historically low mortgage rates will not last forever. very true. And here in the UK you donít fix for 30 years - your rate goes up and down with prevailing interest rates. In the early 90s my parents were paying 17% interest. Can you imagine spending 17% of your homeís loan value A YEAR just to the bank? Thatís no principal payment at all. You are able to fix for a shorter duration, usually between 3 - 5 years. Interest rates here have only one way to go, and the Bank of Englandís has been warning that they will start to rise. I intend to only borrow money at the current low rates, which means I need to have a strategy for paying it off once rates start to rise. At that point, I need to be a lender, not a borrower

5. In the years to come, when rates normalize, people who still have cheap-ass mortgage loans are going to be laughing all the way to the bank. Try to be one of them.rates will normalise. And my friends with £300k houses on 95% loans who are already stretched to the max and living paycheck to paycheck will not be laughing at all. The banks will increase rates, and then what will they do? Iíve asked a few, none seem to have a plan. I want to be one of the ones who is never in peril of losing my home because interest rates have done the only predictable thing.

ETA: missing word.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2017, 08:41:21 AM by theadvicist »

talltexan

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Re: Mortgage Payoff Club!!
« Reply #1413 on: November 28, 2017, 07:29:49 AM »
I feel like I've commented before, but my 2 cents is that once mortgage is below $50K, the mental peace of mind and ability to change the property insurance deductible to a higher minimum makes it financially worth it to prepay. (i.e. a $10K deductible on a $500K house costs approximately $750 less per year than a $1K deductible in my area.) Also, for US FAFSA college financial aid purposes, assets are assessed at a 5-7% rate for college, whereas the equity in your home is not included as an asset available for college funding. So if you have excess after-tax assets (not in a 401(k)/403(b) etc.), and you might qualify for financial aid otherwise, it can make sense to move that $ into your home equity. During the college years, our plan is to only contribute to the 401(k) up to the match and any extra after tuition costs will go into prepaying the mortgage. We're at $219K. We're also holding payoffs until we see how much college will be costing and are sitting on $70K in liquid assets which could be used for mortgage payoffs.

The tax reform bills that are floating in Congress right now will also be quite a bit less favorable to the mortgage interest deduction, although it's subtle in that it comes from raising the standard deduction so much.

The House version of the bill also cuts the upper limit of mortgage balance the interest on which is deductible from $1,000,000 to $500,000.

Dicey

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Re: Mortgage Payoff Club!!
« Reply #1414 on: November 28, 2017, 08:52:51 AM »
I too am so sick of the endless, ďdo the math!Ē posts. Why do you need to come and ruins peopleís fun? We are not stupid little people who need you to come and educate us, thank you. We have made our decisions and do not need rescuing from them.

For me, the main issue is that in many countries (mine included) it does make financial sense to pay off your mortgage. Did you know that? Shall I wade into the ďdonít pay off your mortgage threadĒ and educate people?

There is not now, nor will there ever be, freedom from property taxes, maintenance, or utilities. If you pay off your mortgage, the bank can't foreclose on your house, 'tis true. If you fail to pay your taxes, your county tax assessor can auction it right out from under you. Can't pay your utilities? Good luck with that. The utility companies reserve the right to shut off your water, gas, and power. What? You say your roof is caving in, your heater went out, the plumbing leaks and you don't have the money for repairs? So sad...
Not true in the UK. Once the bank has no claim on your home, no one does. Technically you could go to prison for non payment of a small tax called Council Tax (£118 a month for us), but only if you refuse to pay it. If you canít pay it through financial difficulty you are exempted. The test is based on income, so if times really were that lean, you would qualify for the exemption. If times were so bad you couldnít afford utilities, you certainly wonít be able to pay rent, so thatís kind of moot. And again, in the UK, you would qualify for help if things were that bad.

The rest of my responses are in bold below.

BTW, to those who say you can remortgage later, there are catches to that strategy.

1. The best rates and terms are typically for original acquisition loans. i.e. when you first buy the house. again, not true in the UK. The best rates are for those with a small loan to value ratio. By paying my mortgage down to 50% of the appraised value my rate went from 5.49% to 1.99%

2. It's easier to qualify for a mortgage when you're still drawing a steady paycheck. this i agree with

3. I'm not a CPA, but I am aware that there limits to the deductibility of money borrowed on a home beyond original home acquisition cost. I believe it's generally $100k if  married or $50k if single. Should you decide to pull say, $250k out of your house for living expenses at a later date, it's going to cost you more because only part of it will be deductible. Consult a tax professional for further detalis. tax relief on mortgage interest was abolished here about 30 years ago

4. These historically low mortgage rates will not last forever. very true. And here in the UK you donít fix for 30 years - your rate goes up and down with prevailing interest rates. In the early 90s my parents were paying 17% interest. Can you imagine spending 17% of your homeís value A YEAR just to the bank? Thatís no principal payment at all. You are able to fix for a shorter duration, usually between 3 - 5 years. Interest rates here have only one way to go, and the Bank of Englandís has been warning that they will start to rise. I intend to only borrow money at the current low rates, which means I need to have a strategy for paying it off once rates start to rise. At that point, I need to be a lender, not a borrower

5. In the years to come, when rates normalize, people who still have cheap-ass mortgage loans are going to be laughing all the way to the bank. Try to be one of them.rates will normalise. And my friends with £300k houses on 95% loans who are already stretched to the max and living paycheck to paycheck will not be laughing at all. The banks will increase rates, and then what will they do? Iíve asked a few, none seem to have a plan. I want to be one of the ones who is never in peril of losing my home because interest rates have done the only predictable thing.
1. The point is that people make decisions without understanding the math.

2. We are always, always talking about fixed rate, low interest mortgages, which are commonly available throughout the US. Adjustable rate mortgages are a crapshoot.  Point #1 includes anyone who cannot clearly explain why.

3. This blog and forum originate in the Untied States. I live in the United States. All of my many real estate transactions have occurred and will continue to occur in the Untied States. Therefore, my points are anything but "moot", they are perfectly applicable to all who own real estate in the United States. When I read a recipe from anywhere that uses the Metric System, I do not expect it to be translated for me. I do it myself without complaint, because I can math.

4. Here in the United States, those of us who understand the math generally feel quite sorry for those who cannot get fixed rate mortgages and/or deduct mortgage interest on their taxes. (The consolation is possibly that your healthcare systems are much less fucked up more humane than ours.)

5. Mortgage interest deductibility does not negate the math. Leverage, inflation and the time value of money invested are the biggest needle movers.

6. The concepts mentioned in #5 probably apply globally, and are well worth researching and understanding in any country. They are part of the math we should all be striving to understand before making mortgage prepayment decisions.

7. We are not shouting, we are sharing, in hopes of teaching. Sorry if that ruins your "fun".

8. Bonus Point: Forums exist for discussion. To say that only one side can be espoused on any thread herein is stupid ridiculous silly unclear on the concept.
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theadvicist

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Re: Mortgage Payoff Club!!
« Reply #1415 on: November 28, 2017, 09:55:11 AM »

2. We are always, always talking about fixed rate, low interest mortgages


See, this is my point. No we are not. This forum is open to anyone who registers and when I say ďI have paid x off my mortgage!Ē I do not mean a fixed rate, low interest mortgage. I just mean my mortgage.

You do not have the right to define what the words ďweĒ use mean. Especially when they are being used perfectly accurately.

BlueHouse

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Re: Mortgage Payoff Club!!
« Reply #1416 on: November 29, 2017, 10:51:46 AM »
Dicey and Boarder42:

I appreciate that you want to be helpful, but as others have mentioned, this is a celebratory and inspirational thread.  Boarder42's counter-thread is a perfect place to suggest to newbies to get a counter-view for decision making.  But since you've both already stated your reasons for not paying off the mortgage so, so, so many times, in the future when you see a newbie and fear they may make "the wrong decision", why don't you just PM them to let them know about your other thread? 

You guys are like the preacher dudes at the baseball games.  Dude, if I want to be preached at, I'll go to church.  But right now, I'm at baseball and I want to hear about baseball, so F Off

Edited (to strike the "F Off")
And to add:

My sincerest apologies....I didn't mean to direct that at any forum members.  I was (in my mind) speaking to the preacher dude at the baseball game. 
« Last Edit: November 29, 2017, 01:19:12 PM by BlueHouse »
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Dicey

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Re: Mortgage Payoff Club!!
« Reply #1417 on: November 29, 2017, 12:14:49 PM »
Let's try to keep it civil, BH. PM sent, per your suggestion.
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boarder42

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Re: Mortgage Payoff Club!!
« Reply #1418 on: November 29, 2017, 06:54:32 PM »
I'll start by saying I respect the thread for it's value in providing a place for members who have decided to pay off their mortgage as a place to congregate. And share enthusiasm.

But in the real world that we live in. In the good ole us of a. This is completely detrimental to most  if not all participants.  And encourages people who do not understand that this is something they should partake in.

This very thread is worse financially in the United States than
1 hiring a lawn mower
2 owning a washing machine and dryer
3 eating out daily
4 hiring a house cleaner
5 owning a brand new Escalade.

Many here have admitted that they understand that it's not financially the best decision but makes them feel better. Well to that I ask what personal feeling are we not to have conversations about here. If someone started a thread about buying a new Escalade because " it feels so good". People would show up in droves to help that person out. There is a reason people aren't constantly posting about why you should pay off your mortgage and why dicey and I post in many places about this. It's not to shame or ridicule those who do but to try to help people understand the other side and how much better it is in the long run.

General Americans mentality is go into debt and buy things. This site helps people understand how to mitigate that but there is currently a gift from the govt in front of us and people should exploit that.

If you make so much money like BH it really doesn't matter so be it. But the lower income people who may come here thinking debt us bad see this thread and join in the fun of a very poor financial decision when optimization would cut multiple years off a job they don't want to be in at 60
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Rowellen

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Re: Mortgage Payoff Club!!
« Reply #1419 on: November 29, 2017, 08:01:01 PM »
I for one appreciate the input of boarder42 and dicey etc. I'm convinced that if I were American I would have changed my mind. As it is, I have looked at my maths and challenged my assumptions. I have come to the conclusion that there is very minimal difference between paying or not paying my mortgage. The differences between Australia and America that produce this result include:

Higher interest rates  (mine is approx 4.5%)

Shorter fixed term then has to be renegotiated or the rate becomes variable. (I have 1 year left of a 3year fixed rate term)

Redraw facilities (any extra I pay off my mortgage automatically reduces principal and is available to redraw whenever I want. This is a tax free 4.5% return without even having to lock the money away like a term deposit)

Australia doesn't allow income tax deductions for interest on property you are living in.  On the flip side income from investments is generally taxed at my marginal rate (currently 36%). This brings the expected return much closer to my interest rate. I worked out less than 1% difference on an 8% return. To me, that isn't worth the extra risk.

Instead, I have compromised. I have increased our super savings (tax reduced to 15% so much better return) and slowed down the mortgage payoff.  Super is locked away until age 60 so I'm hesitant to save too much there but will definitely increase contributions for the next few years.

I believe it is a good thing to revisit decisions and see if your initial conclusion still holds true when new information is available or even if circumstances have changed.  Changes can happen so gradually that you don't notice that what might have worked in the past no longer does.

indentured4now

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Re: Mortgage Payoff Club!!
« Reply #1420 on: November 29, 2017, 08:29:19 PM »
For 3+ years, this thread has been a community of like-minded people working hard to change their behavior and become free of debt.   It's a way of becoming FI espoused by world renowned personal finance coaches including Dave Ramsey, Ron Blue and multiple others.    And FWIW, I come back here to encourage and be encouraged because it's important someone hear your success when the rest of the world are sukkas spending every shekel they earn monthly as slaves serving their loans.     It's sad a few smarter-than-thou killjoys want to miss the point and discuss leverage and any excuses to continue being slave to a lender.   Behavior change and wisdom to free up your cash flow to grow wealth even faster while sleeping better is the point here.   If you aren't a fan of such behavior change, then don't let the virtual door hit your @$$ on the way out of this like minded community.

Dicey

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Re: Mortgage Payoff Club!!
« Reply #1421 on: November 29, 2017, 10:00:03 PM »
For 3+ years, this thread has been a community of like-minded people working hard to change their behavior and become free of debt.   It's a way of becoming FI espoused by world renowned personal finance coaches including Dave Ramsey, Ron Blue and multiple others.    And FWIW, I come back here to encourage and be encouraged because it's important someone hear your success when the rest of the world are sukkas spending every shekel they earn monthly as slaves serving their loans.     It's sad a few smarter-than-thou killjoys want to miss the point and discuss leverage and any excuses to continue being slave to a lender.   Behavior change and wisdom to free up your cash flow to grow wealth even faster while sleeping better is the point here.   If you aren't a fan of such behavior change, then don't let the virtual door hit your @$$ on the way out of this like minded community.
It's sad that some people are so unwilling to learn that they consider the teachers "killjoys".

The people you reference so reverently deal primarily with people trying to dig themselves out of debt, and for that, they are to be applauded. Are you aware the guys you named aren't universally regarded here?

The purpose of this site is primarily about how to buy back your life by hitting FIRE as efficiently as possible. This is a completely different goal than clawing your way out of indentured servitude. It's probably pretty accurate to say the majority of mustachians are not in sukka consumer debt up to their eyeballs. The fact that we discuss different things reflects that.

Your last sentence is so preposterous, all I can do is laugh, shake my head ruefully and wish you all the best.
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Hadilly

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Re: Mortgage Payoff Club!!
« Reply #1422 on: November 29, 2017, 10:43:03 PM »
Well, I am out of the club. We just decided to allocate the extra money to a 457b. Time, low fixed interest rate and inflation, do your thing!

Wishing you all well on the paydowns.

channtheman

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Re: Mortgage Payoff Club!!
« Reply #1423 on: November 30, 2017, 12:10:14 AM »
A little update since my first post detailing my situation.

My wife and I are in the process of refinancing right now (30 yr fixed, 3.875% with essentially $205 in closing costs through Consumer Direct Mortgage).  We had planned to refi $200,000, but are ahead of schedule and will ref $195,000!

I have run the numbers and if it was completely up to me, after the refi would most likely dedicate my extra dollars towards investments.  However, I've brought this up to my wife on at least 2 different occasions and she is not in favor of it at all.  She does not want to be in debt and is very conservative with investments.  I have finally got her on board with maxing retirement accounts after the mortgage is gone, so we've made some progress.  I don't fault her for wanting to be debt free and paying down the mortgage is definitely better than just blowing our money. 

So, for now the plan is to eliminate the mortgage in about 9.5 years when I am 36 and she is 34.  We'll get where we need to be, albeit a little slower.  I've got a plan to go part time when I'm around 46 that we will probably still be on track for.  Of course, life happens and you can only plan so many details for 20 years ahead.

Neustache

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Re: Mortgage Payoff Club!!
« Reply #1424 on: November 30, 2017, 05:26:28 AM »
A little update since my first post detailing my situation.

My wife and I are in the process of refinancing right now (30 yr fixed, 3.875% with essentially $205 in closing costs through Consumer Direct Mortgage).  We had planned to refi $200,000, but are ahead of schedule and will ref $195,000!

I have run the numbers and if it was completely up to me, after the refi would most likely dedicate my extra dollars towards investments.  However, I've brought this up to my wife on at least 2 different occasions and she is not in favor of it at all.  She does not want to be in debt and is very conservative with investments.  I have finally got her on board with maxing retirement accounts after the mortgage is gone, so we've made some progress.  I don't fault her for wanting to be debt free and paying down the mortgage is definitely better than just blowing our money. 

So, for now the plan is to eliminate the mortgage in about 9.5 years when I am 36 and she is 34.  We'll get where we need to be, albeit a little slower.  I've got a plan to go part time when I'm around 46 that we will probably still be on track for.  Of course, life happens and you can only plan so many details for 20 years ahead.

You sound like us but 9 years ago and the husband was the one who wanted to pay off the mortgage (and he makes the bulk of our money, if that's how he wants to spend it, I'm fine with it!). 

Good luck!

GnomeErcy

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Re: Mortgage Payoff Club!!
« Reply #1425 on: November 30, 2017, 09:52:33 AM »
Mortgage Payment 1 tomorrow, planning on paying extra.

$387k mortgage
3.875% interest
Paying $845 extra/mo for this next year as of right now

We can still...

- Max out 401(k), about $8-9k in another 401(k)
- Max out IRA's
- Max out HSA
- Save for other goals

Our main thing right now is wanting to get rid of PMI.

I'm always torn. My wife HATES debt which is why we're paying extra. It keeps her up at night. The thought of paying off a house for 30 years is terrifying to be honest so I'm cool with it too.

I think that we can still save sufficiently to meet our main goals but I also know that $800/mo is nothing to shake a stick at, and we could be maxing both 401(k)'s if we didn't pay extra toward the mortgage.

Realistically I don't think there's a way I could convince my wife that not paying the mortgage quicker is a good way to go. She is too emotional about the debt and even though she understands the math she also values a sure thing and getting rid of this mortgage sooner rather than later. I think our compromise here isn't too bad...

frizzywhiskers

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Re: Mortgage Payoff Club!!
« Reply #1426 on: November 30, 2017, 07:48:18 PM »
Canadian Mortgage, interest rates are rising!

Starting mortgage = $435,000, 5 year term @ 3.26% (starting Sept. 30, 2013)
Goal = Full Mortgage Payoff by end of 5 year term (Sept. 30, 2018)

Progress:
- Mortgage amount as of December 25, 2014:  $380,819
- Mortgage amount as of April 2, 2015: $359,144
- Mortgage amount as of July 9, 2015: $324,055
- Mortgage amount as of December 31, 2015:  $285,708
- Mortgage amount - June 2, 2016 - $253,560
- Mortgage amount - September 8, 2016 - $232,502
- Mortgage amount - December 30, 2016 - $194,252
- Mortgage amount - March 30, 2017 - $161,932
- Mortgage amount - July 16, 2017 - $137,809
- Mortgage amount - November 30, 2017 - $107,678

We are on track to be in the 5 digit club by the end of the year with full payoff September 2018. As well, my husband has been laid off with severance that will end February 2019.  This is the reason why we are paying off the mortgage, to have the freedom to live on one salary if we choose.  Our RRSPs are maxed, the timing is perfect, we are blessed!

talltexan

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Re: Mortgage Payoff Club!!
« Reply #1427 on: December 01, 2017, 12:47:29 PM »
Congrats, frizzy!

Dicey

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Re: Mortgage Payoff Club!!
« Reply #1428 on: December 02, 2017, 01:17:14 PM »
Congrats, frizzy!
Ditto! If I lived in a land of non-fixed rate mortgages, the uncertainly would get to me, too. If I lived in the land Down Under, where I understand that you can prepay and then withdraw without penalty as needed, I'd dump every extra dime in it, including most of the EF.

Well done!


Edited for wonky spacing.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2017, 07:16:22 PM by Dicey »
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Plina

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Re: Mortgage Payoff Club!!
« Reply #1429 on: December 02, 2017, 03:15:47 PM »
Congrats, frizzy!
Ditto! If I lived in a land of non-fixed rate mortgages, the uncertainly would get to me, too. If I lived in the land Down Under, where I understand that you can prepay and then withdraw without penalty as needed, I'd dump every extra
dime in it, including most of the EF.
Well done!

I am following the thread with some envy. I live in the land of non fixed rate mortages.. The longest period you can fix it is 10 years for 3,29 %, 5 year for 2,36 and 3 months for 1,59 %. You can fix it anytime but if you want to sell and move with a fixed rate you have to pay the difference in interest for the rest of the period. My is fixed for 3 months. You can also make tax deductions with 30 percent so it not uncommon to have and actual rate under 1 %. So I canít justify it to myself to pay it off faster at the current rates or to fixe it for several years.

arebelspy

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Re: Mortgage Payoff Club!!
« Reply #1430 on: December 03, 2017, 02:17:41 AM »
MOD NOTE:

This thread is for celebrating mortgage payoffs.

Not for debating if one should pay off a mortgage, or not.

All posts regarding the merits of paying off a mortgage are off topic. Please find another, more appropriate thread to post these arguments in.

Cheers!
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channtheman

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Re: Mortgage Payoff Club!!
« Reply #1431 on: December 03, 2017, 03:42:19 AM »
A little update since my first post detailing my situation.

My wife and I are in the process of refinancing right now (30 yr fixed, 3.875% with essentially $205 in closing costs through Consumer Direct Mortgage).  We had planned to refi $200,000, but are ahead of schedule and will ref $195,000!

I have run the numbers and if it was completely up to me, after the refi would most likely dedicate my extra dollars towards investments.  However, I've brought this up to my wife on at least 2 different occasions and she is not in favor of it at all.  She does not want to be in debt and is very conservative with investments.  I have finally got her on board with maxing retirement accounts after the mortgage is gone, so we've made some progress.  I don't fault her for wanting to be debt free and paying down the mortgage is definitely better than just blowing our money. 

So, for now the plan is to eliminate the mortgage in about 9.5 years when I am 36 and she is 34.  We'll get where we need to be, albeit a little slower.  I've got a plan to go part time when I'm around 46 that we will probably still be on track for.  Of course, life happens and you can only plan so many details for 20 years ahead.

You sound like us but 9 years ago and the husband was the one who wanted to pay off the mortgage (and he makes the bulk of our money, if that's how he wants to spend it, I'm fine with it!). 

Good luck!

Thanks!   The cool thing about our expected payoff date is that it is basically a "worst case" scenario.  If I get raises or work OT or my wife works more than we think it should all happen sooner and than we can decide where to put the bulk of our savings - either index funds or real estate at this point. 

Bee21

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Re: Mortgage Payoff Club!!
« Reply #1432 on: December 03, 2017, 03:53:34 AM »
Thanks ARS. i keep away from these arguments because there are some forum members always on the warpath to educate the masses, and their style is always khm, abrasive to put it mildly. I was given double facepunches for paying off my mortgage, and I find the attitude of the mathletes despicable.  If I spent my money on luxury goods and boob jobs I would have been treated better 😁.  But paying off the mortgage is worse than going wild at Prada. Meh.

Carry on people. Having a paid off house is awsome. We have no regrets.




farmecologist

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Re: Mortgage Payoff Club!!
« Reply #1433 on: December 03, 2017, 09:11:28 AM »
MOD NOTE:

This thread is for celebrating mortgage payoffs.

Not for debating if one should pay off a mortgage, or not.

All posts regarding the merits of paying off a mortgage are off topic. Please find another, more appropriate thread to post these arguments in.

Cheers!

Glad to see you guys listened to our plea to leave the debating out of this thread!  Thanks! 

« Last Edit: December 03, 2017, 09:13:02 AM by farmecologist »

FireLane

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Re: Mortgage Payoff Club!!
« Reply #1434 on: December 03, 2017, 11:49:06 AM »
As of today, I'm down to $60k left. I could pay it off this year if I got really aggressive, but I'm trying to divide my paychecks between that and putting money into Vanguard. Aiming to be mortgage-free by 2018!

Progress update: My September payment has cleared and I'm down to $51K. The end is in sight!

Down to $38K as of February. I'm getting impatient to be done with this now that the amount left is so small. :)

$28K remaining. At the rate I'm paying it down, I have less than a year left. The light at the end of the tunnel!

$13K left, now that my last payment of 2017 has gone through. I'll be mortgage-free by spring 2018!

My original plan was to make the final payment in May, but I'm impatient with the finish line so close. I'm thinking of withdrawing a few thousand from my emergency fund to expedite the end. It's earning less in interest than my mortgage rate anyway.

indentured4now

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Re: Mortgage Payoff Club!!
« Reply #1435 on: December 03, 2017, 03:28:21 PM »
@FireLane - Awesome job knocking two thirds or more this year alone all the way down to @ $13K.   At this stage, it's like dieting and all the easy pounds are already gone (ie, using spare cashflow, selling stuff, adding quick income).    Stay with it!

Teachstache

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Re: Mortgage Payoff Club!!
« Reply #1436 on: December 06, 2017, 05:03:36 PM »
Spouse and I paid off our mortgage today. $160,000 purchase price in August 2012. Paid in full December 6, 2017. 20% down payment, standard 30 year mortgage at 3.625%.

couponvan

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Re: Mortgage Payoff Club!!
« Reply #1437 on: December 06, 2017, 05:50:13 PM »
Spouse and I paid off our mortgage today. $160,000 purchase price in August 2012. Paid in full December 6, 2017. 20% down payment, standard 30 year mortgage at 3.625%.

CONGRATULATIONS!!!
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palerider1858

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Re: Mortgage Payoff Club!!
« Reply #1438 on: December 06, 2017, 06:43:48 PM »
Spouse and I paid off our mortgage today. $160,000 purchase price in August 2012. Paid in full December 6, 2017. 20% down payment, standard 30 year mortgage at 3.625%.
Awesome! Great work!

Neustache

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Re: Mortgage Payoff Club!!
« Reply #1439 on: December 06, 2017, 06:49:04 PM »
Spouse and I paid off our mortgage today. $160,000 purchase price in August 2012. Paid in full December 6, 2017. 20% down payment, standard 30 year mortgage at 3.625%.

Congrats!!!

iluvzbeach

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Re: Mortgage Payoff Club!!
« Reply #1440 on: December 06, 2017, 07:27:48 PM »
That is awesome! Congratulations.
Planning to be FIREd in 2020!

indentured4now

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Re: Mortgage Payoff Club!!
« Reply #1441 on: December 06, 2017, 08:18:52 PM »
@Teachstache,   Congratulations!   You're now paid in full and officially weird (and will love it ;-)

Rowellen

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Re: Mortgage Payoff Club!!
« Reply #1442 on: December 06, 2017, 08:42:20 PM »
Spouse and I paid off our mortgage today. $160,000 purchase price in August 2012. Paid in full December 6, 2017. 20% down payment, standard 30 year mortgage at 3.625%.

Congrats! Wow I wish it were possible to find a house that cheap in Australia.

Teachstache

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Re: Mortgage Payoff Club!!
« Reply #1443 on: December 07, 2017, 02:41:18 AM »
Thanks, all. At 35 & 36 with $0 debt (except a credit card which we pay in full each month), it feels good.

farmecologist

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Re: Mortgage Payoff Club!!
« Reply #1444 on: December 07, 2017, 08:47:47 AM »
Thanks, all. At 35 & 36 with $0 debt (except a credit card which we pay in full each month), it feels good.

Congrats!  Our situation was similar.   Just remember to invest all of the cash you were putting towards the mortgage!


Philodendron

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Re: Mortgage Payoff Club!!
« Reply #1445 on: December 07, 2017, 02:19:37 PM »
Great job, Teachstache! Happy for you!

Teachstache

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Re: Mortgage Payoff Club!!
« Reply #1446 on: December 08, 2017, 04:32:30 PM »
Thanks, all. At 35 & 36 with $0 debt (except a credit card which we pay in full each month), it feels good.

Congrats!  Our situation was similar.   Just remember to invest all of the cash you were putting towards the mortgage!

Yep. We are maxing out 2 403bs & 1 457 (while we're able to). Plus my 10% that goes toward my pension. That's 50% of our pre-tax income. Spouse and I also receive 18.5% matching on our retirement contributions.

Should we count retirement matching as part of our savings rate?

plainjane

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Re: Mortgage Payoff Club!!
« Reply #1447 on: December 09, 2017, 05:47:57 AM »
Thanks, all. At 35 & 36 with $0 debt (except a credit card which we pay in full each month), it feels good.
Congrats!  Our situation was similar.   Just remember to invest all of the cash you were putting towards the mortgage!
Yep. We are maxing out 2 403bs & 1 457 (while we're able to). Plus my 10% that goes toward my pension. That's 50% of our pre-tax income. Spouse and I also receive 18.5% matching on our retirement contributions.

Should we count retirement matching as part of our savings rate?

Congratulations! Yes, you should count the matching in both the numerator and the denominator for your savings rate calculation.
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ScottsdaleSaver

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Re: Mortgage Payoff Club!!
« Reply #1448 on: December 11, 2017, 09:49:43 AM »
Jumping over here from a different mortgage payoff thread that never took off. We started the path to early payoff in earnest this June with a (free) refinance. We're on a 15-year mortgage at 3.25%, but I want to knock this thing out in 5.

Big picture - I want to time the mortgage payoff with my escape from corporate life. Our investments are where I'd like it to be at this point. We'll continue to max out our tax advantaged accounts, but everything after that is going towards this.

June 2017 - $254K
July 2017 - $251K
August 2017 - $248K
Sept 2017 - $245K
Oct 2017 - $244K
Nov 2017 - $241K
Dec - 2017 - $237K

Dicey

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Re: Mortgage Payoff Club!!
« Reply #1449 on: December 11, 2017, 09:56:52 AM »
Jumping over here from a different mortgage payoff thread that never took off. We started the path to early payoff in earnest this June with a (free) refinance. We're on a 15-year mortgage at 3.25%, but I want to knock this thing out in 5.

Big picture - I want to time the mortgage payoff with my escape from corporate life. Our investments are where I'd like it to be at this point. We'll continue to max out our tax advantaged accounts, but everything after that is going towards this.

June 2017 - $254K
July 2017 - $251K
August 2017 - $248K
Sept 2017 - $245K
Oct 2017 - $244K
Nov 2017 - $241K
Dec - 2017 - $237K
Love ^this^. Congratulations, SS!
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