The Money Mustache Community
General Discussion => Throw Down the Gauntlet => Topic started by: Le Barbu on August 27, 2015, 02:55:33 PM
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Inspired by MMM article series (back to 2012-2013) about strength, I began lifting weigth this summer. My bodyweight is 175 and I'm 43. My actual lifts after 4 weeks are: Bench 155x5, Squat 215x5 and Deadlift 235x5. This make me a kind of Novice lifter. My goal is to reach the Intermediate level ASAP (before the end of 2015) this mean Bench 195x5, Squat 260x5 and Deadlift 305x5. I am pretty much confident about Squat and Deadlift but it may take longer for the Bench...
I tried to get a friend to join the challenge with me but it seems to turn everyone off in the same maner as saving money and biking!
My long term goal is to someday reach the advanced level in about 3 years
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I've had a goal to DL 500. My PR was 435. Squat is nowhere near those numbers. The thing is though that I don't know why I want that goal other than to say that I did it.
I play a lot of volleyball (or at least want to play more) and feel like that kind of fitness is more appealing to me. So I'm still squatting (following strong lifts - the app is nice). 5x5 at the same weight is rough though. Don't know how it would impact my 1 rep. I should check soon as my wife's having a baby and I know I won't have the time for lifting as much!
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eyePod, as a beginer, I am still amazed to see numbers like 435!! 5 weeks ago, 200 feels heavy to me and couldnt believe I would lift over 300 someday.
My 2 cents, If your goal is to increase your 1 rep max, why not try the SS method with only 1 sets of 5 rep for DL? If you increase you squat (3 sets of 5 every 48-72 hours), your DL will increase big time. Every time I DL wich is about 2x/week, I increase the load by 10-20 pounds and it feel easier than the previous attempt, unbelievable!
Setting a big goal is nice! I wish you break that 500 mark anytime soon!
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Le Barbu, for only being 4 weeks in you base numbers look good. Your goals for reaching intermediate level are very achievable. As long as you stay consistent and follow a proven program the sky's the limit for you over the next year because you are still in the "newbie" stage.
When I want to improve my numbers on the big 3, squat/DL/bench, I like to follow Wendler's 5/3/1. It's easy to follow and proven. Just be warned, weight lifting is addicting.
FWIW, my best total on the big 3 is just over 1200. I'm 32, been lifting for 12 years, and recently cut from 187# to 165#. Despite the 22# cut my strength hasn't suffered much.
Weight training is a hobby for me. If you have any questions let me know.
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My experience has been that eating a lot helps all my lifts go up. I tend to plateau in lifting if I'm maintaining my weight . . . but I also like to do long bike rides a few times a week, so carrying more weight is more difficult (and you need to eat like crazy to avoid losing lbs from the bike rides). It's kinda a trade-off. Those numbers should all be easily achievable for you, if you're eating properly.
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thank you MontaniTrout for stopping by! 1200 for a 165# men mean you are in the elite category!
I am currently following the Starting Strength program. You are right, weight lifting is truelly addictive. Only 5 weeks into that, I feel better and sleep better etc. I am just wondering if I keep training, my bench press will follow the other lifts progress. I will keep adding weight to failure and see...
I bought a beginner's kit (used) but my bar is the weakest link, I dont feel safe anymore when I squat (bouncing way to much). I got to buy a better one but nothing in the used market in my area...It seems like good bars are 300$+ (same price I paid for the entire set)
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thank you MontaniTrout for stopping by! 1200 for a 165# men mean you are in the elite category!
I am currently following the Starting Strength program. You are right, weight lifting is truelly addictive. Only 5 weeks into that, I feel better and sleep better etc. I am just wondering if I keep training, my bench press will follow the other lifts progress. I will keep adding weight to failure and see...
I bought a beginner's kit (used) but my bar is the weakest link, I dont feel safe anymore when I squat (bouncing way to much). I got to buy a better one but nothing in the used market in my area...It seems like good bars are 300$+ (same price I paid for the entire set)
A good bar is worth it. I'm not regretting my bar but it just has a rougher knurling than what I'm used to. Some of the rogue bars are really awesome and not super expensive. They're not in the crap category anymore, and if you ever transition to Oly lifting, you'll be glad you have one of their bars.
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Le Barbu, your bench won't increase as much or as fast as squat/deadlift. That's just the nature of the game so don't get discouraged. Your legs are obviously bigger muscles than your upper body muscles.
When I built my home gym I called around to the local gyms to see if they were willing to sell any of their old equipment. One particular gym hooked me up nice. The owner was happy someone was willing to move and pay for equipment that was collecting dust.
For clarification, my 1225 total was when I was at my heaviest of 195#.
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thank you MontaniTrout for stopping by! 1200 for a 165# men mean you are in the elite category!
I am currently following the Starting Strength program. You are right, weight lifting is truelly addictive. Only 5 weeks into that, I feel better and sleep better etc. I am just wondering if I keep training, my bench press will follow the other lifts progress. I will keep adding weight to failure and see...
I bought a beginner's kit (used) but my bar is the weakest link, I dont feel safe anymore when I squat (bouncing way to much). I got to buy a better one but nothing in the used market in my area...It seems like good bars are 300$+ (same price I paid for the entire set)
A good bar is worth it. I'm not regretting my bar but it just has a rougher knurling than what I'm used to. Some of the rogue bars are really awesome and not super expensive. They're not in the crap category anymore, and if you ever transition to Oly lifting, you'll be glad you have one of their bars.
A gym supplier in my area sell 3 different olympic bar. All of them are 7', 45# and 28.5mm. The entry bar is 99$ and rated 300#, the second is 160$ and rated 600# and the third one is 235$ and rated 1200# (this one is called the power lifting bar). Do you think it worth between the second and the third one? My rational is being a Mustachian, I want the most for my buck, bar #2 is rated high enough for me being in the elite category for my BW and I can alway keep it as a warm-up bar later if I upgrade. Bar #3 is appealing doh...
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Le Barbu, your bench won't increase as much or as fast as squat/deadlift. That's just the nature of the game so don't get discouraged. Your legs are obviously bigger muscles than your upper body muscles.
When I built my home gym I called around to the local gyms to see if they were willing to sell any of their old equipment. One particular gym hooked me up nice. The owner was happy someone was willing to move and pay for equipment that was collecting dust.
For clarification, my 1225 total was when I was at my heaviest of 195#.
Good idea, I'll have a look at this old gym equipment option but look at my previous post about new bars.
I know the bench press cannot increase as fast (#/week) but in the long run, I should stand in the same level (category) for each lift? Maybe I juste started ahead with the squat being a cyclist...
1225# for a 195# is still a lot dude!
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Bars are one of those things (like shoes) where you get what you pay for. Power lifting bars are great, but really stiff. Try lifting with an Eleiko bar and have every other type of bar ruined for you...
I would follow a fellow poster's suggestion and get a rogue bar:
http://www.roguefitness.com/the-ohio-bar
This bar will literally last you your entire strength career.
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Le Barbu, your bench won't increase as much or as fast as squat/deadlift. That's just the nature of the game so don't get discouraged. Your legs are obviously bigger muscles than your upper body muscles.
I'm going to be shitty and nitpick this point, so I apologize in advance because you are generally right. Your progression between the 3 will be greatly affected by your anthropometry assuming you are programming correctly. I have longer limbs, short torso, so my bench is awful to watch but I can deadlift sumo and conventional very well. My best lifts were 365/285/515 @ 181 while on sheiko. I have a buddy who goes 405/365/385. Watching him deadlifting is painful but his squat ROM is like 3" (short femurs, long torso).
So if you are getting stuck on a specific lift it could be a body design issue. Plus as Guitar said, you just gotta eat a lot. I have not gone over 315/275/385 since I stopped shoveling food like it was a 2nd job :(.
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I can confirm the 'certain bodies do lifts better than others' thing, as another guy with long arms and short torso. The bench press doesn't want to go up quickly, but my deadlift progresses great.
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What is the plan when I hit a plateau? If I intend to do 3 sets of 5 and fail the 5th rep of the last set (barely achieving the 4th), should I stay at the same weight next time or put few # more and fail at the same rep (or earlier)? What works best to keep increasing strenght?
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Plateau busting can come in many forms. For me, things that have worked:
- eat more
- change up reps for a couple weeks (if you normally do in the 1-5 range for sets of three, go to the 8 - 10 range for sets of three with reduced weight for example)
- add in supplementary exercises to strengthen your weaker areas (for a weak bench, heavy weighted dips, military press, dumbbell bench presses, rows, and pull-ups all seemed to help.)
Weight lifting will slow down and become two steps forward, one step back. It's a marathon, not a sprint though . . . so don't get discouraged.
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Bars are one of those things (like shoes) where you get what you pay for. Power lifting bars are great, but really stiff. Try lifting with an Eleiko bar and have every other type of bar ruined for you...
I would follow a fellow poster's suggestion and get a rogue bar:
http://www.roguefitness.com/the-ohio-bar
This bar will literally last you your entire strength career.
Do you mean about stiffness? Good, not good (or it depends)? I train for fun, general health and strengh. Realistically, I dont think lifting more than 400# in any lift. As some other sports, the top of the line equipment is not always suited for beginers or intermediates. It's nice to have something that match your level or just a bit ahead.
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Plateau busting can come in many forms. For me, things that have worked:
- eat more
- change up reps for a couple weeks (if you normally do in the 1-5 range for sets of three, go to the 8 - 10 range for sets of three with reduced weight for example)
- add in supplementary exercises to strengthen your weaker areas (for a weak bench, heavy weighted dips, military press, dumbbell bench presses, rows, and pull-ups all seemed to help.)
Weight lifting will slow down and become two steps forward, one step back. It's a marathon, not a sprint though . . . so don't get discouraged.
thank you for these advices! I am quite aggressive on adding weight since I began so I already know the plateau phase is coming sooner or later. I did a lot of different sports and the beginner's period is the most exciting because you are improving so fast, it's almost unbelievable. Actually, I dont think I am getting 10% stronger every week but I am becoming better at lifting weights for sure.
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Plateau busting can come in many forms. For me, things that have worked:
- eat more
- change up reps for a couple weeks (if you normally do in the 1-5 range for sets of three, go to the 8 - 10 range for sets of three with reduced weight for example)
- add in supplementary exercises to strengthen your weaker areas (for a weak bench, heavy weighted dips, military press, dumbbell bench presses, rows, and pull-ups all seemed to help.)
Weight lifting will slow down and become two steps forward, one step back. It's a marathon, not a sprint though . . . so don't get discouraged.
thank you for these advices! I am quite aggressive on adding weight since I began so I already know the plateau phase is coming sooner or later. I did a lot of different sports and the beginner's period is the most exciting because you are improving so fast, it's almost unbelievable. Actually, I dont think I am getting 10% stronger every week but I am becoming better at lifting weights for sure.
I also forgot the most basic one:
- Deload 5-10% and then keep adding weight again.
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I can confirm the 'certain bodies do lifts better than others' thing, as another guy with long arms and short torso. The bench press doesn't want to go up quickly, but my deadlift progresses great.
I have the opposite problem... REALLY long torso (like Michael Phelps long). My deadlift blows so much ass it's embarrasing, lol. I also have long arms, so benching isn't great for me either, but damn, my C&J is pretty good.
Bars are one of those things (like shoes) where you get what you pay for. Power lifting bars are great, but really stiff. Try lifting with an Eleiko bar and have every other type of bar ruined for you...
I would follow a fellow poster's suggestion and get a rogue bar:
http://www.roguefitness.com/the-ohio-bar
This bar will literally last you your entire strength career.
Do you mean about stiffness? Good, not good (or it depends)? I train for fun, general health and strengh. Realistically, I dont think lifting more than 400# in any lift. As some other sports, the top of the line equipment is not always suited for beginers or intermediates. It's nice to have something that match your level or just a bit ahead.
Then maybe that works for you. I don't like stiff bars. They have a weird feeling on my back. If you ever get into OLY lifting, a power lifting bar is not a good idea. Whether or not that's "good" depends on who you are. If you tend to lift exsplosively and fast, the less stiff the bar is, the more weight you can move. Stiff power bars are meant for guys with a 1,000 pounds on their backs, who would snap the bar in half if it had ANY give whatsoever. Plus, there is something really cool about seeing the bar bend under the weight you are about to lift.
Rogue makes a whole suite of bars. The Rippetoe/Burgener bar is also a great choice.
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Plateau busting can come in many forms. For me, things that have worked:
- eat more
- change up reps for a couple weeks (if you normally do in the 1-5 range for sets of three, go to the 8 - 10 range for sets of three with reduced weight for example)
- add in supplementary exercises to strengthen your weaker areas (for a weak bench, heavy weighted dips, military press, dumbbell bench presses, rows, and pull-ups all seemed to help.)
Weight lifting will slow down and become two steps forward, one step back. It's a marathon, not a sprint though . . . so don't get discouraged.
thank you for these advices! I am quite aggressive on adding weight since I began so I already know the plateau phase is coming sooner or later. I did a lot of different sports and the beginner's period is the most exciting because you are improving so fast, it's almost unbelievable. Actually, I dont think I am getting 10% stronger every week but I am becoming better at lifting weights for sure.
I also forgot the most basic one:
- Deload 5-10% and then keep adding weight again.
so, keeping to attempt the same # and missing the last reps is not the way to go?
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I can confirm the 'certain bodies do lifts better than others' thing, as another guy with long arms and short torso. The bench press doesn't want to go up quickly, but my deadlift progresses great.
I have the opposite problem... REALLY long torso (like Michael Phelps long). My deadlift blows so much ass it's embarrasing, lol. I also have long arms, so benching isn't great for me either, but damn, my C&J is pretty good.
Bars are one of those things (like shoes) where you get what you pay for. Power lifting bars are great, but really stiff. Try lifting with an Eleiko bar and have every other type of bar ruined for you...
I would follow a fellow poster's suggestion and get a rogue bar:
http://www.roguefitness.com/the-ohio-bar
This bar will literally last you your entire strength career.
Do you mean about stiffness? Good, not good (or it depends)? I train for fun, general health and strengh. Realistically, I dont think lifting more than 400# in any lift. As some other sports, the top of the line equipment is not always suited for beginers or intermediates. It's nice to have something that match your level or just a bit ahead.
Then maybe that works for you. I don't like stiff bars. They have a weird feeling on my back. If you ever get into OLY lifting, a power lifting bar is not a good idea. Whether or not that's "good" depends on who you are. If you tend to lift exsplosively and fast, the less stiff the bar is, the more weight you can move. Stiff power bars are meant for guys with a 1,000 pounds on their backs, who would snap the bar in half if it had ANY give whatsoever. Plus, there is something really cool about seeing the bar bend under the weight you are about to lift.
Rogue makes a whole suite of bars. The Rippetoe/Burgener bar is also a great choice.
I dont want the bar being to stiff, I want it to be safe, comfortable* and not get bent after squating 305#
*I know for sure I'm not in the "explosive" category! You can get stronger but explosiveness is more about genetics
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I want to get the rogue 2.0 bar at some point. It's 269 shipped and rated to 190,000 PSI. That's right in line with any of the top of the line lifting bars and it's not too expensive. Plus it's american made. I liked the knurling on the rogue bars (wasn't as rough as my current one). At some point I'll upgrade but I'm not there now.
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Plateau busting can come in many forms. For me, things that have worked:
- eat more
- change up reps for a couple weeks (if you normally do in the 1-5 range for sets of three, go to the 8 - 10 range for sets of three with reduced weight for example)
- add in supplementary exercises to strengthen your weaker areas (for a weak bench, heavy weighted dips, military press, dumbbell bench presses, rows, and pull-ups all seemed to help.)
Weight lifting will slow down and become two steps forward, one step back. It's a marathon, not a sprint though . . . so don't get discouraged.
thank you for these advices! I am quite aggressive on adding weight since I began so I already know the plateau phase is coming sooner or later. I did a lot of different sports and the beginner's period is the most exciting because you are improving so fast, it's almost unbelievable. Actually, I dont think I am getting 10% stronger every week but I am becoming better at lifting weights for sure.
I also forgot the most basic one:
- Deload 5-10% and then keep adding weight again.
so, keeping to attempt the same # and missing the last reps is not the way to go?
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In my experience, no. It's much harder to add reps than to add weight to the bar. You keep adding weight and you'll never hit those reps again. You need to lighten up a bit until you can make your reps, then begin your progression. (Personally, I'll usually try the same weight the next week just in case I was having a bad day, but missing reps two weeks in a row is good reason for a deload.)
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I want to get the rogue 2.0 bar at some point. It's 269 shipped and rated to 190,000 PSI. That's right in line with any of the top of the line lifting bars and it's not too expensive. Plus it's american made. I liked the knurling on the rogue bars (wasn't as rough as my current one). At some point I'll upgrade but I'm not there now.
why does this bar has no center knurl?
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You don't need a center knurl on a bar.
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I don't have a center knurl on my bar either. Most people think it doesn't matter, but if you've used it for your whole life, then it's hard to say that you don't need it.
And it doesn't have one becaueys it's for Oly's. I wouldn't want to be cleaning with extra knurling.
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The center knurl doesn't really serve any purpose. Your squat should be suspended on the shelf that your shoulders make. If you're depending on the middle knurling to keep your front squat there, you're using poor technique. It cuts your neck/chin for front squats and cleans. It can scrape your shins and knees for conventional deadlifts. It will probably scrape your collar when you're doing overhead presses or push presses. No advantage to having it.
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As other posters have said, a surplus is key for novices to get those huge gains, something like a 300-500/day calorie surplus will help your gains skyrocket. If you can't find a used bar, go for the one rated for 600lbs, and if you ever outgrow it, buy a new bar, maybe when you get close you can start looking for a used one. Starting Strength is an amazing program for beginners, it's what I started on as well. Currently this is the program I'm doing.
A day
Squat 2 sets with a rep goal of 15
Deadlift 1x5
Bench 4 sets with a rep goal of 30
Chinups As many as possible between bench sets
Lastly Plank as long as possible
B day
Squat 3 sets with a rep goal of 23
Overhead Press 4 sets with a rep goal of 30
Row 4 sets with a rep goal of 30 (I alternate Press and Row sets)
Skull Crushers 3 sets with a rep goal of 30
Barbell Curls 3 sets with a rep goal of 30 (I alternate Skull Crusher and Curl sets)
Good Mornings 2 sets by 10 reps
Weighted situps 2 sets by 10 reps (I alternate Good Morning and Situp sets)
C day
Squat 2 sets with a rep goal of 15
Deadlift 1x5
Bench 4 sets with a rep goal of 30
Pullups As many as possible between bench sets
Lastly do Ab Wheel Rollouts until I'm worn out
For warm up and cool down each day I ride my bike to/from the gym(that my work pays for).
The rep goal system is a system from the book Massive Iron by Steve Shaw, how it works, you maximize each set by doing as many reps as you can, if you hit your rep goal then you can increase weight next time, otherwise you deload next time.
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When I want to improve my numbers on the big 3, squat/DL/bench, I like to follow Wendler's 5/3/1. It's easy to follow and proven.
Wendler for the win! I love the 5/3/1 program and used it to break my DL PR this year.
If you're looking for bars also check out http://www.elitefts.com/ in addition to Rogue. EliteFTS has frequent sales and I've been happy with my purchases from them. IMO I wouldn't skimp on the bar. Make sure you take a look at what you plan to do and purchase an appropriate bar that can take a beating. Training is my main hobby but I have to do it in a commercial gym. If I was setting up a home gym I wouldn't bat an eye at purchasing 3-4 bars: SS Yoke, Texas PL Bar, Log Trainer, Trap Bar, Oly bar...now I'm day dreaming!
I think you're going to have a ton of fun! :-)
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As other posters have said, a surplus is key for novices to get those huge gains, something like a 300-500/day calorie surplus will help your gains skyrocket. If you can't find a used bar, go for the one rated for 600lbs, and if you ever outgrow it, buy a new bar, maybe when you get close you can start looking for a used one. Starting Strength is an amazing program for beginners, it's what I started on as well. Currently this is the program I'm doing.
A day
Squat 2 sets with a rep goal of 15
Deadlift 1x5
Bench 4 sets with a rep goal of 30
Chinups As many as possible between bench sets
Lastly Plank as long as possible
B day
Squat 3 sets with a rep goal of 23
Overhead Press 4 sets with a rep goal of 30
Row 4 sets with a rep goal of 30 (I alternate Press and Row sets)
Skull Crushers 3 sets with a rep goal of 30
Barbell Curls 3 sets with a rep goal of 30 (I alternate Skull Crusher and Curl sets)
Good Mornings 2 sets by 10 reps
Weighted situps 2 sets by 10 reps (I alternate Good Morning and Situp sets)
C day
Squat 2 sets with a rep goal of 15
Deadlift 1x5
Bench 4 sets with a rep goal of 30
Pullups As many as possible between bench sets
Lastly do Ab Wheel Rollouts until I'm worn out
For warm up and cool down each day I ride my bike to/from the gym(that my work pays for).
The rep goal system is a system from the book Massive Iron by Steve Shaw, how it works, you maximize each set by doing as many reps as you can, if you hit your rep goal then you can increase weight next time, otherwise you deload next time.
This isn't really a program, it's just a set of things that might be indicative of an end set (I assume? Or do you do 2 sets of 8/7 cold?). It's not showing any progression scheme either.
I liked 5/3/1 but the volume is horrendously low, so I found it hard to get beyond a 3 month block - especially in bench. I found a LOT of benefit running Sheiko 29-30-31-32 in that order. It's a good solid 4 month block but required a lot of time in the gym.
I have a lot of positive things to say about my bar, the burgener and rippetoe bar from rogue. The knurling is not super sharp but very grippy (more sandpaper like), no center knurl, and it has sintered bushings instead of needle bearings so the plates don't spin like hell benching. Don't overshoot your bar, buy good but you generally don't need specialist bars if you aren't competing unless you need a special accommodation, like a thick bench bar for people with big hands.
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As other posters have said, a surplus is key for novices to get those huge gains, something like a 300-500/day calorie surplus will help your gains skyrocket. If you can't find a used bar, go for the one rated for 600lbs, and if you ever outgrow it, buy a new bar, maybe when you get close you can start looking for a used one. Starting Strength is an amazing program for beginners, it's what I started on as well. Currently this is the program I'm doing.
A day
Squat 2 sets with a rep goal of 15
Deadlift 1x5
Bench 4 sets with a rep goal of 30
Chinups As many as possible between bench sets
Lastly Plank as long as possible
B day
Squat 3 sets with a rep goal of 23
Overhead Press 4 sets with a rep goal of 30
Row 4 sets with a rep goal of 30 (I alternate Press and Row sets)
Skull Crushers 3 sets with a rep goal of 30
Barbell Curls 3 sets with a rep goal of 30 (I alternate Skull Crusher and Curl sets)
Good Mornings 2 sets by 10 reps
Weighted situps 2 sets by 10 reps (I alternate Good Morning and Situp sets)
C day
Squat 2 sets with a rep goal of 15
Deadlift 1x5
Bench 4 sets with a rep goal of 30
Pullups As many as possible between bench sets
Lastly do Ab Wheel Rollouts until I'm worn out
For warm up and cool down each day I ride my bike to/from the gym(that my work pays for).
The rep goal system is a system from the book Massive Iron by Steve Shaw, how it works, you maximize each set by doing as many reps as you can, if you hit your rep goal then you can increase weight next time, otherwise you deload next time.
This isn't really a program, it's just a set of things that might be indicative of an end set (I assume? Or do you do 2 sets of 8/7 cold?). It's not showing any progression scheme either.
See bolded part above
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Bars in the 250-400$ range are very appealing (Rogue 2.0, B&R etc) but...I got hit by the analisis paralisis
I bought an entry level bar for 100$ yesterday. It feels 500% better than my previous one and A LOT SAFER. The former was a 3 PIECES SHAFT that was not nearly round!! The knurling was not grippy at all and I was worry every time I loaded more than 175#. Anyway, that was the one in the second hand kit I bought for 200$ (including a bench, a rack, 300# of iron and a 75# boxing bag).
With only few weeks experience, I am not ready to spend that much now. My experience in other sports or activities is that I like to outdo my equipment, that's the way I am! I beat the shit out of it and move on. So, my plan is to get under the bar every 2 days 'till I hit my goal (260/195/305) and see! For sure, I will probably know better what I want for the next bar purchase.
Yesterday, I did 3x5 squat @ 240#, 3x5 bench @ 155# and 1x5 Deadlift @ 250# with the new bar (+16# total). Now that the bar issue is handled, I got to sleep and eat more if I dont want to stall.
My next project is to build or buy a nice, safe, multi-purpose, squat rack. I will then get a place to store the weights, do some chin-up and dips and improve the safety when benching and squating.
Thank you for tips and support!
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Bars in the 250-400$ range are very appealing (Rogue 2.0, B&R etc) but...I got hit by the analisis paralisis
I bought an entry level bar for 100$ yesterday. It feels 500% better than my previous one and A LOT SAFER. The former was a 3 PIECES SHAFT that was not nearly round!! The knurling was not grippy at all and I was worry every time I loaded more than 175#. Anyway, that was the one in the second hand kit I bought for 200$ (including a bench, a rack, 300# of iron and a 75# boxing bag).
With only few weeks experience, I am not ready to spend that much now. My experience in other sports or activities is that I like to outdo my equipment, that's the way I am! I beat the shit out of it and move on. So, my plan is to get under the bar every 2 days 'till I hit my goal (260/195/305) and see! For sure, I will probably know better what I want for the next bar purchase.
Yesterday, I did 3x5 squat @ 240#, 3x5 bench @ 155# and 1x5 Deadlift @ 250# with the new bar (+16# total). Now that the bar issue is handled, I got to sleep and eat more if I dont want to stall.
My next project is to build or buy a nice, safe, multi-purpose, squat rack. I will then get a place to store the weights, do some chin-up and dips and improve the safety when benching and squating.
Thank you for tips and support!
I bought a squat rack from Valor Fitness. It goes up to something like 6 feet tall so you could do chip ups if you wanted to. I got a rogue bench and didn't get teh bar i really wanted to, but I'll get that at some point in the future if I move back into Oly lifting.
The squat rack I got is two individual stands and lets me put it away to give me floor space in my garage. It's been fantastic. It also has 2 middle spots for bench and a safety catch (which I haven't had to use yet but would be able to wriggle the bar onto if needed). It's been fantastic so far. http://amzn.to/1N7oe5K (http://amzn.to/1N7oe5K)
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Stupid thing that nobody has mentioned yet, but make sure you're using chalk when you feel like your hands are slipping on the bar because of sweat. Particularly for deadlifting, chalk can mean the difference between pulling 400 lbs for reps and pulling 350 once.
You can build a squat rack very cheaply with a few 2x4s, saw horses, and some buckets of concrete. It's also pretty easy to build a weight bench. I did, and I'm not much of a carpenter.
(https://c4.staticflickr.com/4/3686/18740259240_287374a60a_z.jpg)
I've put more than four hundred lbs on the rack with no problems, and the saw horses are rated for 1500 lbs each.
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My actual rack is pretty basic but with adjustable height for bench, squat and shoulder press. No safety catch so I bench with a spotter all the time.
This is the kind of rack I would like to build
http://www.home-gym-bodybuilding.com/homemade-power-rack.html
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Stupid thing that nobody has mentioned yet, but make sure you're using chalk when you feel like your hands are slipping on the bar because of sweat. Particularly for deadlifting, chalk can mean the difference between pulling 400 lbs for reps and pulling 350 once.
What kind of chalk? Is it a specialized thing or about the same as blackboard chalk or baby powder?
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Climbing chalk. Pick up a ball of it from MEC or any climbing gym . . . it should only cost you 3-4$ and will last you ages. It's usually made of magnesium carbonate (same stuff that gymnasts use), and will really help your grip stay firm. I wouldn't use baby powder, it might be more slippery.
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Climbing chalk. Pick up a ball of it from MEC or any climbing gym . . . it should only cost you 3-4$ and will last you ages. It's usually made of magnesium carbonate (same stuff that gymnasts use), and will really help your grip stay firm. I wouldn't use baby powder, it might be more slippery.
To add - Also grab a climbing chalk bag if you go to one of those normal box type gyms. When I used to deadlift at Lifetime, the trainers would give me a pass on bringing chalk because I kept it in a climbing bag since it wasn't getting all over the place (subpoint - don't chalk up like an asshole in box gyms). Also telling them they could use my chalk helped I think.
See bolded part above
Right but that's still not really a program. AMRAP programs are capable of working in a general sense, but they aren't really a great way to handle progression if you have a goal in mind. Although retrospectively, I probably need more direction and strict programming in order to progress than others may, so n=1 advice I suppose :).
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See bolded part above
Right but that's still not really a program. AMRAP programs are capable of working in a general sense, but they aren't really a great way to handle progression if you have a goal in mind. Although retrospectively, I probably need more direction and strict programming in order to progress than others may, so n=1 advice I suppose :).
I'm sure the writer of the book Massive Iron, Steve Shaw, would disagree with you. The Rep Goal System works great, please read the book or know something about it before you say things like "that's not a program" and "not a great way to handle progress if you have a goal in mind". I went from doing 225x5 squat, to now being able to do 365x8, in less than a year. I set goals and I crushed them with the rep goal system.
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I went from doing 225x5 squat, to now being able to do 365x8, in less than a year.
I really want to request a video of this before continuing. Not to specifically be a dick about it either, because if this system worked for you to this extent then I really would have no reason to discuss and debate the details of this vs. that strength program.
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I went from doing 225x5 squat, to now being able to do 365x8, in less than a year.
I really want to request a video of this before continuing. Not to specifically be a dick about it either, because if this system worked for you to this extent then I really would have no reason to discuss and debate the details of this vs. that strength program.
I go to a gym that my work provides, they don't allow cameras in there for some reason, but I have my first powerlifting meet in october and can post vids. I should mention that I also went from weighing 160 to weighing 205, I've gained about 28lb of Lean Body Mass and 17lbs of fat.
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Inspired by MMM article series (back to 2012-2013) about strength, I began lifting weigth this summer. My bodyweight is 175 and I'm 43. My actual lifts after 4 weeks are: Bench 155x5, Squat 215x5 and Deadlift 235x5. This make me a kind of Novice lifter. My goal is to reach the Intermediate level ASAP (before the end of 2015) this mean Bench 195x5, Squat 260x5 and Deadlift 305x5. I am pretty much confident about Squat and Deadlift but it may take longer for the Bench...
I tried to get a friend to join the challenge with me but it seems to turn everyone off in the same maner as saving money and biking!
My long term goal is to someday reach the advanced level in about 3 years
Update; BW 178, bench 157.5x5, squat 250x5, deadlift 260x5
I eat a lot but still need to sleep more. The press and the power clean helped me to improve my bench.
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Inspired by MMM article series (back to 2012-2013) about strength, I began lifting weigth this summer. My bodyweight is 175 and I'm 43. My actual lifts after 4 weeks are: Bench 155x5, Squat 215x5 and Deadlift 235x5. This make me a kind of Novice lifter. My goal is to reach the Intermediate level ASAP (before the end of 2015) this mean Bench 195x5, Squat 260x5 and Deadlift 305x5. I am pretty much confident about Squat and Deadlift but it may take longer for the Bench...
I tried to get a friend to join the challenge with me but it seems to turn everyone off in the same maner as saving money and biking!
My long term goal is to someday reach the advanced level in about 3 years
Update; BW 178, bench 157.5x5, squat 250x5, deadlift 260x5
I eat a lot but still need to sleep more. The press and the power clean helped me to improve my bench.
Make sure you pause for 1 second on your chest, bouncing the bar off your chest isn't as effective for your muscles. I think the best ways to increase your bench is with 3 count pause bench, incline bench, and of course, BENCH. I have no idea how power cleaning helped your bench unless you are doing a clean n press. Pressing doesn't help your bench very much compared to incline or benching.
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Inspired by MMM article series (back to 2012-2013) about strength, I began lifting weigth this summer. My bodyweight is 175 and I'm 43. My actual lifts after 4 weeks are: Bench 155x5, Squat 215x5 and Deadlift 235x5. This make me a kind of Novice lifter. My goal is to reach the Intermediate level ASAP (before the end of 2015) this mean Bench 195x5, Squat 260x5 and Deadlift 305x5. I am pretty much confident about Squat and Deadlift but it may take longer for the Bench...
I tried to get a friend to join the challenge with me but it seems to turn everyone off in the same maner as saving money and biking!
My long term goal is to someday reach the advanced level in about 3 years
Update; BW 178, bench 157.5x5, squat 250x5, deadlift 260x5
I eat a lot but still need to sleep more. The press and the power clean helped me to improve my bench.
Make sure you pause for 1 second on your chest, bouncing the bar off your chest isn't as effective for your muscles. I think the best ways to increase your bench is with 3 count pause bench, incline bench, and of course, BENCH. I have no idea how power cleaning helped your bench unless you are doing a clean n press. Pressing doesn't help your bench very much compared to incline or benching.
I never tried to pause for 3 seconds but always for 1 (no bounce). The reason I believe the press and PC helped me is because they work the upper body but in a different way than the bench itself. So I squat-bench-deadlift on the same workout (A) and squat-press-PC on another (B). Press and power clean works almost the entire body and they mimics real life tasks. I keep your advices in mind and give a try when needed. thanks!
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Inspired by MMM article series (back to 2012-2013) about strength, I began lifting weigth this summer. My bodyweight is 175 and I'm 43. My actual lifts after 4 weeks are: Bench 155x5, Squat 215x5 and Deadlift 235x5. This make me a kind of Novice lifter. My goal is to reach the Intermediate level ASAP (before the end of 2015) this mean Bench 195x5, Squat 260x5 and Deadlift 305x5. I am pretty much confident about Squat and Deadlift but it may take longer for the Bench...
I tried to get a friend to join the challenge with me but it seems to turn everyone off in the same maner as saving money and biking!
My long term goal is to someday reach the advanced level in about 3 years
Update; BW 178, bench 157.5x5, squat 250x5, deadlift 260x5
I eat a lot but still need to sleep more. The press and the power clean helped me to improve my bench.
Make sure you pause for 1 second on your chest, bouncing the bar off your chest isn't as effective for your muscles. I think the best ways to increase your bench is with 3 count pause bench, incline bench, and of course, BENCH. I have no idea how power cleaning helped your bench unless you are doing a clean n press. Pressing doesn't help your bench very much compared to incline or benching.
I never tried to pause for 3 seconds but always for 1 (no bounce). The reason I believe the press and PC helped me is because they work the upper body but in a different way than the bench itself. So I squat-bench-deadlift on the same workout (A) and squat-press-PC on another (B). Press and power clean works almost the entire body and they mimics real life tasks. I keep your advices in mind and give a try when needed. thanks!
If you are aiming to be healthier and more fit, then press is great for shoulders, Power Clean is great for a lot of things. If you are going for optimizing your bench, say for a Powerlifting Meet, then it's not the "best" path to take. Mark Rippetoe is the man, doing what he says will get you strong and it's great that you are following starting strength, but if you're aiming for powerlifting, or merely increasing squat/bench/deadlift, their are better programs. I'd say the best novice program for powerlifting would be the programs detailed in Izzy Narvaez's Programming to Win book.
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Also, I recommend reading Mark Rippetoes book, Practical Programming. The guy really is a strength genius, and it'll help you decide a direction to go in after you are no longer able to linearly progress.
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Inspired by MMM article series (back to 2012-2013) about strength, I began lifting weigth this summer. My bodyweight is 175 and I'm 43. My actual lifts after 4 weeks are: Bench 155x5, Squat 215x5 and Deadlift 235x5. This make me a kind of Novice lifter. My goal is to reach the Intermediate level ASAP (before the end of 2015) this mean Bench 195x5, Squat 260x5 and Deadlift 305x5. I am pretty much confident about Squat and Deadlift but it may take longer for the Bench...
I tried to get a friend to join the challenge with me but it seems to turn everyone off in the same maner as saving money and biking!
My long term goal is to someday reach the advanced level in about 3 years
Update; BW 178, bench 157.5x5, squat 250x5, deadlift 260x5
I eat a lot but still need to sleep more. The press and the power clean helped me to improve my bench.
Make sure you pause for 1 second on your chest, bouncing the bar off your chest isn't as effective for your muscles. I think the best ways to increase your bench is with 3 count pause bench, incline bench, and of course, BENCH. I have no idea how power cleaning helped your bench unless you are doing a clean n press. Pressing doesn't help your bench very much compared to incline or benching.
I never tried to pause for 3 seconds but always for 1 (no bounce). The reason I believe the press and PC helped me is because they work the upper body but in a different way than the bench itself. So I squat-bench-deadlift on the same workout (A) and squat-press-PC on another (B). Press and power clean works almost the entire body and they mimics real life tasks. I keep your advices in mind and give a try when needed. thanks!
If you are aiming to be healthier and more fit, then press is great for shoulders, Power Clean is great for a lot of things. If you are going for optimizing your bench, say for a Powerlifting Meet, then it's not the "best" path to take. Mark Rippetoe is the man, doing what he says will get you strong and it's great that you are following starting strength, but if you're aiming for powerlifting, or merely increasing squat/bench/deadlift, their are better programs. I'd say the best novice program for powerlifting would be the programs detailed in Izzy Narvaez's Programming to Win book.
Main goal is definetly to get stronger, healthy and fit. The squat-bench-deadlift # are practical to track my progress. At 43 with an office job and approaching FI, it's easy to become (stay) a wimp! My goal is to get as strong as I can before 50 to enjoy life and activities after I retire.
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Inspired by MMM article series (back to 2012-2013) about strength, I began lifting weigth this summer. My bodyweight is 175 and I'm 43. My actual lifts after 4 weeks are: Bench 155x5, Squat 215x5 and Deadlift 235x5. This make me a kind of Novice lifter. My goal is to reach the Intermediate level ASAP (before the end of 2015) this mean Bench 195x5, Squat 260x5 and Deadlift 305x5. I am pretty much confident about Squat and Deadlift but it may take longer for the Bench...
I tried to get a friend to join the challenge with me but it seems to turn everyone off in the same maner as saving money and biking!
My long term goal is to someday reach the advanced level in about 3 years
Update; BW 178, bench 157.5x5, squat 250x5, deadlift 260x5
I eat a lot but still need to sleep more. The press and the power clean helped me to improve my bench.
Make sure you pause for 1 second on your chest, bouncing the bar off your chest isn't as effective for your muscles. I think the best ways to increase your bench is with 3 count pause bench, incline bench, and of course, BENCH. I have no idea how power cleaning helped your bench unless you are doing a clean n press. Pressing doesn't help your bench very much compared to incline or benching.
I never tried to pause for 3 seconds but always for 1 (no bounce). The reason I believe the press and PC helped me is because they work the upper body but in a different way than the bench itself. So I squat-bench-deadlift on the same workout (A) and squat-press-PC on another (B). Press and power clean works almost the entire body and they mimics real life tasks. I keep your advices in mind and give a try when needed. thanks!
If you are aiming to be healthier and more fit, then press is great for shoulders, Power Clean is great for a lot of things. If you are going for optimizing your bench, say for a Powerlifting Meet, then it's not the "best" path to take. Mark Rippetoe is the man, doing what he says will get you strong and it's great that you are following starting strength, but if you're aiming for powerlifting, or merely increasing squat/bench/deadlift, their are better programs. I'd say the best novice program for powerlifting would be the programs detailed in Izzy Narvaez's Programming to Win book.
Main goal is definetly to get stronger, healthy and fit. The squat-bench-deadlift # are practical to track my progress. At 43 with an office job and approaching FI, it's easy to become (stay) a wimp! My goal is to get as strong as I can before 50 to enjoy life and activities after I retire.
Definitely stick with starting strength then, get as much linear progression as you can out of it! Good Luck!
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Did stronglifts for about 30 lift days. Not very consistent with the 3x per week and twice didn't do it for over a week. In 2011 I squatted 245. On Sunday I was able to do 290! I think the more consistent squatting was the most important part.
III had only hit 210 on a strong lift day (5x5 at that weight) and really struggled. 290 felt pretty good, just a little bit of forward inclination on the way up. Just wanted to say the app is great for giving you a good consistent squat routine.
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Did stronglifts for about 30 lift days. Not very consistent with the 3x per week and twice didn't do it for over a week. In 2011 I squatted 245. On Sunday I was able to do 290! I think the more consistent squatting was the most important part.
III had only hit 210 on a strong lift day (5x5 at that weight) and really struggled. 290 felt pretty good, just a little bit of forward inclination on the way up. Just wanted to say the app is great for giving you a good consistent squat routine.
Big difference between 1RM and routine weight! I never tried my 1RM at any lift yet, the weight I talk about are always my 3x5 for squat and bench and 1x5 for deadlift. I use the Strenth Level app that works pretty well also.
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When you bench with security bars, how do you set the height? I mean, the proper dept when benching is the bar must touch the chest, but it's damn close to the height where I want the bar to stop when I fail...The difference is about 1 inch. If the form is not perfect and one end of the bar touches the safety bar, doesnt this bother you? Do you get use to this and then correct the form? My rack is not completely done but I was just trying to figure this out.
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When you bench with security bars, how do you set the height? I mean, the proper dept when benching is the bar must touch the chest, but it's damn close to the height where I want the bar to stop when I fail...The difference is about 1 inch. If the form is not perfect and one end of the bar touches the safety bar, doesnt this bother you? Do you get use to this and then correct the form? My rack is not completely done but I was just trying to figure this out.
Personally, I don't use the security bars, and instead don't put the collars on the bar when I'm benching, if I fail I tilt the bar to the side and let the weights slide off. It works for me, but it seems to be frowned upon by some people. I think this only works because I am pretty stable when benching, it doesn't work when I'm squatting, I put the safety catch bars in when I'm squatting.
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I set the safeties so that the bar can go a little below the top of my chest while holding a deep breath. This way if you're a little bit shaky at the bottom of the lift you don't bounce off the safety (which I find annoying and totally breaks my concentration). When set up like this, after a fail I can breathe out and just barely get out from under the bar.
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I set the safeties so that the bar can go a little below the top of my chest while holding a deep breath. This way if you're a little bit shaky at the bottom of the lift you don't bounce off the safety (which I find annoying and totally breaks my concentration). When set up like this, after a fail I can breathe out and just barely get out from under the bar.
I personally have a shitty power rack with 3" gaps between holes, so for me I had to come up with another solution.
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I have an adjustable saw horse, and if I want fine adjustment I screw some wood shims into the top. :P
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I started to fail some rep at press and bench-press. It may look like this: 5x3x157.5lb is cleared, I attempt for 5x3x160lb and this is what happen 1-1-1-1-1, 1-1-1-1-1, 1-1-1-x-x
I fail in the last set at 3rd, 4th or 5th rep. Sometime because a lack of concentration/technique, exhausted or lack of strength. Next training day I clear the 160lb and move on. I feel like the reps I missed did not contribute to my improvement at all. Would it be better to keep the last weight I cleared for a few more training before to move on at this stage?
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Replying to follow, and to join the discussion!
I've tried several different routines/lifting programs over the past few years (2 stints with stronglifts, bodyweight stuff, etc).
I got into Crossfit a year or two ago. I don't belong to a Crossfit gym, nor do I think I am better than you because I do Crossfit. I simply think it's the best workout for me: I sweat a ton each time, get to mix high weight low rep olympic lifts with gymnastic movements and traditional cardio. It's as well rounded as I think I can get. I've become stronger, more agile, and gained increased body control.
That being said, I have trouble really bulking up, I think as a result of my body type. I'm 6'0" 175ish, and haven't been able to maintain a 180+ bodyweight. My numbers are solid (probably intermediate?), I think, for my weight: 225 power clean, 350 deadlift, 225 bench (1 rep maxes), but in terms of 'bulking,' I am fighting genes. I also eat pretty clean: veggies, meat, fruit, nuts, eggs, and minimal starchy cards or processed foods.
Anyway, this thread seems to be a cool place to discuss fitness, and especially weightlifting!
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@mrteacher, welcome to this thread! Your 1RM are strong! I think we may fight with the same kind of genetic/body type. I never trained with heavy weights before, I'm 43 and doing Starting Strenght for about 2 months now. I was in good general shape, mostly because of MTB. I gained 3-5lb (only) even if I eat a lot more than before. Now I sit at 178lb for 1 week, we'll see the result over time.
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I started to fail some rep at press and bench-press. It may look like this: 5x3x157.5lb is cleared, I attempt for 5x3x160lb and this is what happen 1-1-1-1-1, 1-1-1-1-1, 1-1-1-x-x
I fail in the last set at 3rd, 4th or 5th rep. Sometime because a lack of concentration/technique, exhausted or lack of strength. Next training day I clear the 160lb and move on. I feel like the reps I missed did not contribute to my improvement at all. Would it be better to keep the last weight I cleared for a few more training before to move on at this stage?
I don't remember it off the top of my head, but the starting strength book tells you what to do if you fail, you should skim the book and figure out where Mr. Rippetoe talks about it and do what he says.
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Replying to follow, and to join the discussion!
I've tried several different routines/lifting programs over the past few years (2 stints with stronglifts, bodyweight stuff, etc).
I got into Crossfit a year or two ago. I don't belong to a Crossfit gym, nor do I think I am better than you because I do Crossfit. I simply think it's the best workout for me: I sweat a ton each time, get to mix high weight low rep olympic lifts with gymnastic movements and traditional cardio. It's as well rounded as I think I can get. I've become stronger, more agile, and gained increased body control.
That being said, I have trouble really bulking up, I think as a result of my body type. I'm 6'0" 175ish, and haven't been able to maintain a 180+ bodyweight. My numbers are solid (probably intermediate?), I think, for my weight: 225 power clean, 350 deadlift, 225 bench (1 rep maxes), but in terms of 'bulking,' I am fighting genes. I also eat pretty clean: veggies, meat, fruit, nuts, eggs, and minimal starchy cards or processed foods.
Anyway, this thread seems to be a cool place to discuss fitness, and especially weightlifting!
@mrteacher, welcome to this thread! Your 1RM are strong! I think we may fight with the same kind of genetic/body type. I never trained with heavy weights before, I'm 43 and doing Starting Strenght for about 2 months now. I was in good general shape, mostly because of MTB. I gained 3-5lb (only) even if I eat a lot more than before. Now I sit at 178lb for 1 week, we'll see the result over time.
I've found the best ways to bulk are,
1. Drink a gallon of whole milk every day
2. Lots of PB&Js
3. Oatmeal mixed with peanut butter and nutella
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If you're doing CrossFit and having trouble putting on weight (not surprising) and you're eating few carbs and having trouble putting on weight (not surprising), try this:
1. Stop doing CrossFit and get a copy of Mass Made Simple (http://www.amazon.com/Mass-Made-Simple-Dan-John-ebook/dp/B006HXPR66).
2. Lift and Eat as prescribed in the book.
I'm not a CrossFit hater, but it's not a method for bulking up. Likewise, I usually eat the way you are describing to maintain or lose weight. You can go back to CrossFit after you bulk up where you want to be, and provided you don't cut calories too much, you will maintain your muscular gains as you lean out.
Enjoy the PB sandwiches!
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Interesting thread for sure, but not sure what I can take from it. I'm really more in the camp of trying to "look good on the beach" (vain I know) than trying to get strong. I'm kind of a tall, gangly guy(6,4", 190 pounds), so I don't think this power lifting stuff would be all that beneficial. Wouldn't rule it out though...following this thread with interest. Keep it up.
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I started to fail some rep at press and bench-press. It may look like this: 5x3x157.5lb is cleared, I attempt for 5x3x160lb and this is what happen 1-1-1-1-1, 1-1-1-1-1, 1-1-1-x-x
I fail in the last set at 3rd, 4th or 5th rep. Sometime because a lack of concentration/technique, exhausted or lack of strength. Next training day I clear the 160lb and move on. I feel like the reps I missed did not contribute to my improvement at all. Would it be better to keep the last weight I cleared for a few more training before to move on at this stage?
There are a few things you can try:
1 - Are you timing your rest periods? You absolutely should. As you lift heavier, you will need longer breaks between sets. You might feel fine, and jump up to do your next set, but then fail because your muscles are too tired. You may just be failing because your muscles are strong enough to lift heavy enough to get really tired. I find that between 2-6 minutes between each work set is ideal.
2 - How is your eating and sleeping? Both are very important. You need to be taking in more calories than you're burning to build muscle.
3 - If you've hit this wall a couple weeks in a row, deload and work your way back up. Deload by moving your working weight down to 90% of the current amount (this would be about 145 lbs). After a deload you should feel like the weight is easy to handle. You should reduce your rest breaks slightly. You should regularly and slowly build back up to 160 over a few weeks. Everyone's form goes to shit when they are lifting at their hardest, so use this time to really focus on getting the motion down perfectly.
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I started to fail some rep at press and bench-press. It may look like this: 5x3x157.5lb is cleared, I attempt for 5x3x160lb and this is what happen 1-1-1-1-1, 1-1-1-1-1, 1-1-1-x-x
I fail in the last set at 3rd, 4th or 5th rep. Sometime because a lack of concentration/technique, exhausted or lack of strength. Next training day I clear the 160lb and move on. I feel like the reps I missed did not contribute to my improvement at all. Would it be better to keep the last weight I cleared for a few more training before to move on at this stage?
There are a few things you can try:
1 - Are you timing your rest periods? You absolutely should. As you lift heavier, you will need longer breaks between sets. You might feel fine, and jump up to do your next set, but then fail because your muscles are too tired. You may just be failing because your muscles are strong enough to lift heavy enough to get really tired. I find that between 2-6 minutes between each work set is ideal. I time my rest accuratly for the exercises that I may fail (5-8 minutes) for the other one, I dont time but try to rest 3-5 on average.
2 - How is your eating and sleeping? Both are very important. You need to be taking in more calories than you're burning to build muscle. Sleep: all I can sleep is 8h/night (family, work, random reasons) tough I never get a shitty sleep but still...Eating: I will work on that!
3 - If you've hit this wall a couple weeks in a row, deload and work your way back up. Deload by moving your working weight down to 90% of the current amount (this would be about 145 lbs). After a deload you should feel like the weight is easy to handle. You should reduce your rest breaks slightly. You should regularly and slowly build back up to 160 over a few weeks. Everyone's form goes to shit when they are lifting at their hardest, so use this time to really focus on getting the motion down perfectly. Good advice here, form is not perfect near to the limit on more complex lifts (press, power-clean)
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Always eat more food.
I've found the best ways to bulk are,
1. Drink a gallon of whole milk every day
2. Lots of PB&Js
3. Oatmeal mixed with peanut butter and nutella
+1 to this advice - This will solve a lot of strength problems. I used to buy big containers of peanuts and almonds and just snack on them constantly, then a big protein shake before bed on top of 4 meals a day. I do not miss the always-full feeling but gaining 10-15 pounds/month on all lifts was so nice.
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If you're doing CrossFit and having trouble putting on weight (not surprising) and you're eating few carbs and having trouble putting on weight (not surprising), try this:
1. Stop doing CrossFit and get a copy of Mass Made Simple (http://www.amazon.com/Mass-Made-Simple-Dan-John-ebook/dp/B006HXPR66).
2. Lift and Eat as prescribed in the book.
I'm not a CrossFit hater, but it's not a method for bulking up. Likewise, I usually eat the way you are describing to maintain or lose weight. You can go back to CrossFit after you bulk up where you want to be, and provided you don't cut calories too much, you will maintain your muscular gains as you lean out.
Enjoy the PB sandwiches!
My problem is that I want it all. I am passionate about eating clean (quasi-Paleo) and doing metabolic conditioning workouts as they kick my ass and build my 'engine' like nothing else. I also want to add muscle mass, ideally - and perhaps unrealistically - without sacrificing the diet and Crossfit workouts. That's where I run into trouble.
I'll take a look at the book you linked, and think about bringing more PB, oatmeal, milk, etc into my diet.
Thanks!
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Interesting thread for sure, but not sure what I can take from it. I'm really more in the camp of trying to "look good on the beach" (vain I know) than trying to get strong. I'm kind of a tall, gangly guy(6,4", 190 pounds), so I don't think this power lifting stuff would be all that beneficial. Wouldn't rule it out though...following this thread with interest. Keep it up.
Everybody wants to look like a body builder, but nobody wants to lift no heavy ass weights. :P
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Interesting thread for sure, but not sure what I can take from it. I'm really more in the camp of trying to "look good on the beach" (vain I know) than trying to get strong. I'm kind of a tall, gangly guy(6,4", 190 pounds), so I don't think this power lifting stuff would be all that beneficial. Wouldn't rule it out though...following this thread with interest. Keep it up.
I would recommend more of a body building program then, maybe start with something like ICF 5x5, I think it's called something else now, maybe Jason Blahas novice 5x5.
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My problem is that I want it all. I am passionate about eating clean (quasi-Paleo) and doing metabolic conditioning workouts as they kick my ass and build my 'engine' like nothing else. I also want to add muscle mass, ideally - and perhaps unrealistically - without sacrificing the diet and Crossfit workouts. That's where I run into trouble.
I'll take a look at the book you linked, and think about bringing more PB, oatmeal, milk, etc into my diet.
Thanks!
Strongman type program sounds more appropriate than Crossfit type if you are looking to add strength. Different types of HIIT activities like log carries over weighted pull-ups, more big lifts and less quick lifts (squats and push press independently instead of snatches, for example). Crossfit exercises do not have the weight number or programming format to get you to a good strength level.
To preempt the discussion point, none of the top crossfitters use a crossfit routine to get strong. Even Froning uses a modified strongman routine (plus the gear of course).
Honestly if you think of crossfit as strongman-light that probably makes enough sense.
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If you're doing CrossFit and having trouble putting on weight (not surprising) and you're eating few carbs and having trouble putting on weight (not surprising), try this:
1. Stop doing CrossFit and get a copy of Mass Made Simple (http://www.amazon.com/Mass-Made-Simple-Dan-John-ebook/dp/B006HXPR66).
2. Lift and Eat as prescribed in the book.
I'm not a CrossFit hater, but it's not a method for bulking up. Likewise, I usually eat the way you are describing to maintain or lose weight. You can go back to CrossFit after you bulk up where you want to be, and provided you don't cut calories too much, you will maintain your muscular gains as you lean out.
Enjoy the PB sandwiches!
My problem is that I want it all. I am passionate about eating clean (quasi-Paleo) and doing metabolic conditioning workouts as they kick my ass and build my 'engine' like nothing else. I also want to add muscle mass, ideally - and perhaps unrealistically - without sacrificing the diet and Crossfit workouts. That's where I run into trouble.
I'll take a look at the book you linked, and think about bringing more PB, oatmeal, milk, etc into my diet.
Thanks!
If it helps, Dan John (who wrote Mass Made Simple) was an adviser to CrossFit in the early years before it went insane, and he does believe in building an engine, variety in workouts, and eating clean. It's just, well, if you want to put on mass, you may have to change it up for a while. Really if you poke around his site or read a few of his books/articles, he has some very CrossFit-ish ideas, and he is basically the guy who introduced the kettlebell to the mainstream (Pavel Tsatsouline brought it to the States, but it was a very niche thing until Dan John started talking about it).
Anyway, Mass Made Simple works.
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@jba302 - I was unaware that elite Crossfit athletes did not use Crossfit to add strength! That's interesting, and good to know.
@TRBeck - Also good information to know regarding Dan John and his link to Crossfit/kettlebells. I assume you've used Mass Made Simple? How did it work for you?
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Even Froning uses a modified strongman routine (plus the gear of course).
Source (not the gear part)? I'm good friends with a multi-games CF athlete and I would not classify their training as anything close to strongman-esque.
mrteacher - you can sort of do it all, but your progress is going to be slow across the board. I would clarify jba302's statement and say that elite crossfitters don't just do random lift + random metcon every day. Their training is very periodized with very specific goals. There will be technique phases, strength-building phases, olympic lifting phases, aerobic endurance phases, etc. Each of which requires different training and helps in different ways. And honestly, their training volumes are just crazy, so probably not worth aspiring to something like that.
If you feel like you want to get stronger, just tilt your training more towards lifting. You don't have to stop sweating entirely, but maybe just do a maintenance metcon or two per week. You'd be surprised at how fast you can get your metcon shape back after a while sticking to lifts. Eating and sleeping better will also help a lot.
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Even Froning uses a modified strongman routine (plus the gear of course).
Source (not the gear part)? I'm good friends with a multi-games CF athlete and I would not classify their training as anything close to strongman-esque.
mrteacher - you can sort of do it all, but your progress is going to be slow across the board. I would clarify jba302's statement and say that elite crossfitters don't just do random lift + random metcon every day. Their training is very periodized with very specific goals. There will be technique phases, strength-building phases, olympic lifting phases, aerobic endurance phases, etc. Each of which requires different training and helps in different ways. And honestly, their training volumes are just crazy, so probably not worth aspiring to something like that.
If you feel like you want to get stronger, just tilt your training more towards lifting. You don't have to stop sweating entirely, but maybe just do a maintenance metcon or two per week. You'd be surprised at how fast you can get your metcon shape back after a while sticking to lifts. Eating and sleeping better will also help a lot.
Here's the first link I could reasonably find, followed by a strongman link (again, first one I could reasonably find, so the points are somewhat less apparent than i would generally like):
http://www.allthingsgym.com/rich-froning-training-days/
http://www.strongman.org/features/strongman-training-routine/
In the bolded part - you are describing the concept of a strongman, and my suggestion in different words. The primary difference is that in froning's program, more events are required (which means more days of events through the week) which is simply a by-product of the number of possible events you have to do in a crossfit games. Both versions have movement focus + accessory day structure, but froning's looks a little more involved because of the extra events.
I mean "light" as a literal function of the amount of weights used- the weights are strictly lighter, but it is not as an indication of the overall demands of the program. It's just a shift in the strength/stamina/skill balance with crossfit requiring a hell of a lot more stamina for a games. Both require event training, being strong as possible, and having enough cardio to make it through the events without dying out.
As an overall point, cardio is relatively easy to develop in the scope of things, while strength is very much not. I can go on for a while on this topic with citations from Zatsiorsky, Prilepin, etc. but being very strong and generally having some stamina will beat the shit out of having a lot of stamina and being somewhat strong for events in both fields. Klokov's crossfit training videos (an Oly lifter but same idea) are a fantastic example of this.
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Update; BW 178, bench 167.5x5, squat 255x5, deadlift 310x5: total 732.5
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Your total should really be the sum of your 1-rep maxes, not your 5-rep sets.
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Your total should really be the sum of your 1-rep maxes, not your 5-rep sets.
Really? I never attempted 1RM on any of my lift, my plan is to follow the SS beginner's prog until nov. 10th then test my 1RM and then take a rest (1 week vacation away from home). I may start the Advanced Novice Program wich include some chin-ups, pull-ups and front squats. Not sure yet...
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I've slacked the first 8 months of the year but started hard back again at it a few months ago. Last year my best numbers were 275x10 on bench and 365x5 on squat. I rarely do barbell bench so didn't want to go too heavy with lower reps. I was 215-220 at 5'10 and around 10% BF at the time for reference. My numbers have gone down a lot, and now I'm around 212 and around 13% Bf or so. I'll get back up there.
Last week my fiancé set a new PR. She squatted 225x3 for deep, perfect reps. She's about 120lbs. That was insanely impressive, it's rare to see most girls even go above 135lbs and still have good form. Proud moment for me as well lol. She had never worked out until we started dating, and has now been lifting almost 3 years.
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Last week my fiancé set a new PR. She squatted 225x3 for deep, perfect reps. She's about 120lbs. That was insanely impressive, it's rare to see most girls even go above 135lbs and still have good form. Proud moment for me as well lol. She had never worked out until we started dating, and has now been lifting almost 3 years.
DW started lifting 2 months ago. She is 44 and never trained or did any sport. She started at 151#BW, squating 60. Yesterday, squated 130 for 5 reps and BF is down to 146#!!! Better results than jogging 30 minutes 5x/week!!!
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Last week my fiancé set a new PR. She squatted 225x3 for deep, perfect reps. She's about 120lbs. That was insanely impressive, it's rare to see most girls even go above 135lbs and still have good form. Proud moment for me as well lol. She had never worked out until we started dating, and has now been lifting almost 3 years.
DW started lifting 2 months ago. She is 44 and never trained or did any sport. She started at 151#BW, squating 60. Yesterday, squated 130 for 5 reps and BF is down to 146#!!! Better results than jogging 30 minutes 5x/week!!!
Yep! Soooo much better results lifting weights. Cardio has its place but weightlifting helps way more. When you build muscle mass you burn way more calories even just sedentary throughout the day.
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Last week my fiancé set a new PR. She squatted 225x3 for deep, perfect reps. She's about 120lbs. That was insanely impressive, it's rare to see most girls even go above 135lbs and still have good form. Proud moment for me as well lol. She had never worked out until we started dating, and has now been lifting almost 3 years.
DW started lifting 2 months ago. She is 44 and never trained or did any sport. She started at 151#BW, squating 60. Yesterday, squated 130 for 5 reps and BF is down to 146#!!! Better results than jogging 30 minutes 5x/week!!!
Yep! Soooo much better results lifting weights. Cardio has its place but weightlifting helps way more. When you build muscle mass you burn way more calories even just sedentary throughout the day.
And this muscle mass continue burning calories even while you sleep!
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A lot of good advice in this thread. I will add an important piece as a 44 year old who has been lifting for 7 years.
If you start to plateau, take a few weeks off and then only lift 2 or 3 times a week . Just 5x5 progression. As much as we hate to admit it, many of us older guys make much better gains with more rest and recovery.
In the end you may have to experiment with stuff and find what works best for you. e.g many people swear by 5/3/1 it did nothing for me, but 3 months of 10 x10 only lifting twice a week did wonders, as did more carbs in my diet.
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The 5/3/1 program gives a pretty wide range of customization based on your goals. Your routine will look radically different if you're trying to bodybuild versus train for powerlifting. It's possible that you just needed to switch up the assistance exercises.
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I made no progress on 5/3/1, nowhere near enough volume. Sheiko was the best for me but I no longer have 2 hours / 3 times a week that I can dedicate. As I'm getting older I am finding that I can maintain easily with slow gains on higher volume / lower frequency, so I'll do a couple pyramids a week with the big lifts and call it good.
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I don't entirely understand the criticism of 'not enough volume'. I ran the 5/3/1 BBB variant for a little over a year and had steady increases in all my lifts. As per 'Beyond 531' I was doing:
Main lifts (per program):
Warm-up - 40%, 50%, 60%
Work Set - 5s wk: 65%, 75%, 85% AMRAP, heavier sets of 5 depending on mood, 65% AMRAP
Work Set - 3s wk: 70%, 80%, 90% AMRAP, heavier sets of 3 depending on mood, 70% AMRAP
Work Set - 5/3/1 wk: 75%, 85%, 95% AMRAP, heavier sets of 1 depending on mood, 75% AMRAP
The accessory exercises were done as per BBB (except for the power cleans which I did as per the 'using 531 with power cleans' template online:
Military Press - Weighted Dips (5x10) - Weighted Pull-ups (5x10)
Power Clean (5x3, 7x2, 10x1, depending on week) - Deadlift - Front Squat (5x10)
Bench Press - DB Bench (5x10) - Bent Over Row (5x10)
Squat - Deadlift (5x10) - Squat (5x10)
That seemed like a ton of volume at the time.
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The BBB template is a bit higher in volume than the core program, but it's still focused on 1 really hard day per week for a given lift so the opportunity for high intensity is in place of larger amounts of moderate intensity with Sheiko (with some sprinkled higher intensity work, you really only end up doing 10 or so 90%+ lifts in a 4 month block with 29/30/31/32). Sheiko is 3 days/week bench, 2 days/week squat, 1 day/week deadlift.
As an example, in the first week of 30 (which is a shitty shitty week but a fair comparison since 29 is a prep phase) you do 30 reps at 80%+ on squat and 120 squat reps overall. In comparison, the 5's week on 5/3/1 +BBB would be:
5 @ 40%
5 @ 50%
5 @ 60%
5 @ 65%
5 @ 75%
8(ish) @ 85%
10(ish) @ 65%
50 @ 50%
93 total, 8 at or above 80%. That second part is the problem for me more than the overall. Even adding in another set of 5 would put you at 98/13 against 120/30. I know a few people who put a lot of weight on their squat with it, but 5/3/1 happened to not work for me because i have a LOT of trouble grinding reps above 90, which is a big part of the program. This moderately tough intensity/ constant hitting works well for me. Probably similar to why I can do a shit load of manual labor all day but it takes a sun dial for my 100 meter dash.
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I gotcha. Hmm, I wonder how much your preferred method of training later on in life depends on things you did when you were younger. I spent years in martial arts (boxing, wrestling, BJJ, Judo) and most of that focused around pumping out occasional huge efforts between relatively low intensity stuff for a few rounds.
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A lot of training is really geared towards body types and genetics in regards to volume and reps. A genetically massive/strong guy is going to get massive/strong by nearly anything, but some programs are better than others. I have a friend who is a huge competitive bodybuilder, and for years all he did was 15 reps of everything. It just worked best for him.
2 years ago I adjusted my training geared towards Dorian Yates and Mike Mentzers training principles. Super high intensity and low sets. Right now I'm doing a 3 day split and lifting 4 days a week, so essentially training every muscle group every 5 days or so.
Tonight was chest/shoulders/triceps.
My chest workout for example was 2 warm ups for decline, then one "all out set" for decline, incline, and flies. My decline was as follows: 1 warm up at 135x10, 1 warm up at 185x10, then my "all out set" was 235x10 (which was absolutely failure) then my fiancé spotted me for two more forced reps, then she immediately stripped the bar down to 185 where I immediately did 185x10, then she stripped it down to 135 where I did 135x7. This was to a total new type of failure that most people never see.
This has worked great for me the last couple years. I slacked and did crossfit for several months and lost a lot of gains, but now it's coming back quick. It's pushed me past plateaus I never knew I could do. I used to always think I'd be content to make it to 200lbs (started at 168) and have since made it up to 220 was the most, at less body fat than when I was at 168. That being said, I eat a LOT and my grocery bill is probably the most expensive on the site for two people lol.
Here's a great interview by Dorian Yates and his training principles.
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/dorian_yates_training_insight.htm
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I gotcha. Hmm, I wonder how much your preferred method of training later on in life depends on things you did when you were younger. I spent years in martial arts (boxing, wrestling, BJJ, Judo) and most of that focused around pumping out occasional huge efforts between relatively low intensity stuff for a few rounds.
I would kind of think it's the other way around. Like what did i excel at, and then how do I base my training around the reason for that. I know muscle fibers can mimic other ones but it isn't ideal, and your muscle fiber distribution is set genetically. Probably yak shaving at that point since most people would get stronger doing anything consistently.
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My long term goal is to someday reach the advanced level in about 3 years
Then start eating like it. Upon rising, 8 eggs and a cup of old fashioned oats, one slice of whole grain bread, and coffee or tea. Then throughout the day, eat 1.5 to 2 pounds of meat (you pick 1.5 or 2 depending upon how quickly you want to add bodyweight and strength). Split it up into three or four meals of 8-10 ounces throughout the day. Add a cup of brown rice to each meal, along with a fibrous vegetable (spinach, broccoli, asparagus). Eat a bowl of cottage cheese when going to bed.
Forget all that crap about PB&J sandwiches and whole milk by the gallon. That is just a bunch of sugar (seriously, read the nutrition label on milk) and, especially at 43, will just make you fat.
Diet is a large part of what you are trying to accomplish. Get your diet sorted out and watch the lifts get heavier and heavier.
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I actually recover from a inner-knee bursitis (pes anserine) from an injury 1 year ago and did not squat for 6 weeks now. Meanwhile, I resseted my weights at bench and shoulder-press and introduced chin-up and pull-up (weighted and unweighted). Now I press 5x120lb (previous plateau was 115) and bench 5x170lb with no problem (I was barelly lifting 165lb before). Weighted chin-up and pull-up are amazing! My back is like brand new again and I hope I can beging to squat and deadlift soon, maybe in about 2-3 weeks.
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I actually recover from a inner-knee bursitis (pes anserine) from an injury 1 year ago and did not squat for 6 weeks now. Meanwhile, I resseted my weights at bench and shoulder-press and introduced chin-up and pull-up (weighted and unweighted). Now I press 5x120lb (previous plateau was 115) and bench 5x170lb with no problem (I was barelly lifting 165lb before). Weighted chin-up and pull-up are amazing! My back is like brand new again and I hope I can beging to squat and deadlift soon, maybe in about 2-3 weeks.
Sorry to hear about your knee, but glad to hear you are getting back at it.
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My long term goal is to someday reach the advanced level in about 3 years
Then start eating like it. Upon rising, 8 eggs and a cup of old fashioned oats, one slice of whole grain bread, and coffee or tea. Then throughout the day, eat 1.5 to 2 pounds of meat (you pick 1.5 or 2 depending upon how quickly you want to add bodyweight and strength). Split it up into three or four meals of 8-10 ounces throughout the day. Add a cup of brown rice to each meal, along with a fibrous vegetable (spinach, broccoli, asparagus). Eat a bowl of cottage cheese when going to bed.
Forget all that crap about PB&J sandwiches and whole milk by the gallon. That is just a bunch of sugar (seriously, read the nutrition label on milk) and, especially at 43, will just make you fat.
Diet is a large part of what you are trying to accomplish. Get your diet sorted out and watch the lifts get heavier and heavier.
PB&J sandwiches and gallons of whole milk are not crap, they are a tool used to bulk. For building muscle, you only need 1 gram of protein per pound of lean body mass you have, doing what you suggest and only eating protein is a waste of money. Yes milk and PB&Js have sugar, yes you will gain both fat. That's the definition of bulking, but the important thing to realize is if you combine it with consistently doing a decent strength training program, you will build a ton of muscle. Gaining muscle is very hard, losing fat is not as hard and can be done by cuts after a good muscle base is built. A friend of mine recently started Starting strength, and after 11 weeks he gained 55lbs, 31lbs were lean body mass and the rest was fat. He also took his squat from 145 3x5 to 315 3x5. He ate more than 6000 calories a day, including a gallon of whole milk per day. This allowed him to recover from the training and grow a lot of muscle. He didn't miss a single workout. That was 2 months ago, I just talked to him and he has been cutting since then and has lost 15lbs, 12lbs of which were fat. He also increased his squat from 315 3x5 to 340 2x5 during his cut (he is only doing 2x5 because he is cutting). He's currently gained 28lbs of lean body mass and 12lbs of fat and he looks leaner than he did to begin with because of the gain in muscle.
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My long term goal is to someday reach the advanced level in about 3 years
Then start eating like it. Upon rising, 8 eggs and a cup of old fashioned oats, one slice of whole grain bread, and coffee or tea. Then throughout the day, eat 1.5 to 2 pounds of meat (you pick 1.5 or 2 depending upon how quickly you want to add bodyweight and strength). Split it up into three or four meals of 8-10 ounces throughout the day. Add a cup of brown rice to each meal, along with a fibrous vegetable (spinach, broccoli, asparagus). Eat a bowl of cottage cheese when going to bed.
Forget all that crap about PB&J sandwiches and whole milk by the gallon. That is just a bunch of sugar (seriously, read the nutrition label on milk) and, especially at 43, will just make you fat.
Diet is a large part of what you are trying to accomplish. Get your diet sorted out and watch the lifts get heavier and heavier.
PB&J sandwiches and gallons of whole milk are not crap, they are a tool used to bulk. For building muscle, you only need 1 gram of protein per pound of lean body mass you have, doing what you suggest and only eating protein is a waste of money. Yes milk and PB&Js have sugar, yes you will gain both fat. That's the definition of bulking, but the important thing to realize is if you combine it with consistently doing a decent strength training program, you will build a ton of muscle. Gaining muscle is very hard, losing fat is not as hard and can be done by cuts after a good muscle base is built. A friend of mine recently started Starting strength, and after 11 weeks he gained 55lbs, 31lbs were lean body mass and the rest was fat. He also took his squat from 145 3x5 to 315 3x5. He ate more than 6000 calories a day, including a gallon of whole milk per day. This allowed him to recover from the training and grow a lot of muscle. He didn't miss a single workout. That was 2 months ago, I just talked to him and he has been cutting since then and has lost 15lbs, 12lbs of which were fat. He also increased his squat from 315 3x5 to 340 2x5 during his cut (he is only doing 2x5 because he is cutting). He's currently gained 28lbs of lean body mass and 12lbs of fat and he looks leaner than he did to begin with because of the gain in muscle.
Have you asked him what steroid cycle he's on? Because I am 100% positive that NO NATURAL PERSON gets those numbers without them. Even on a cycle that'd be very hard, but seeing how inexperienced he was when he started it may be doable.
I have tons of friends on steroids where we've discussed in detail and tons that aren't.
Great for your friend but don't let him fool you into thinking those results are capable by a normal natural person.
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I wouldn't necessarily jump to accusations of steroid use right away.
In my 30s, I started eating much more and very strictly following a weight training program. I was able to add 30 lbs on to my frame (180 - 210) and my lifts went up tremendously over about 8 months to a year. (Deadlift alone went from 220x5 to 390x5.) No special drug usage of any kind.
My understanding is that when you're in the 18 - 28 year old range it's even easier to gain strength and put on muscle. Squatting over 300 lbs is not rare for a healthy man who is weight training. It doesn't sound particularly impossible to me.
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My long term goal is to someday reach the advanced level in about 3 years
Then start eating like it. Upon rising, 8 eggs and a cup of old fashioned oats, one slice of whole grain bread, and coffee or tea. Then throughout the day, eat 1.5 to 2 pounds of meat (you pick 1.5 or 2 depending upon how quickly you want to add bodyweight and strength). Split it up into three or four meals of 8-10 ounces throughout the day. Add a cup of brown rice to each meal, along with a fibrous vegetable (spinach, broccoli, asparagus). Eat a bowl of cottage cheese when going to bed.
Forget all that crap about PB&J sandwiches and whole milk by the gallon. That is just a bunch of sugar (seriously, read the nutrition label on milk) and, especially at 43, will just make you fat.
Diet is a large part of what you are trying to accomplish. Get your diet sorted out and watch the lifts get heavier and heavier.
PB&J sandwiches and gallons of whole milk are not crap, they are a tool used to bulk. For building muscle, you only need 1 gram of protein per pound of lean body mass you have, doing what you suggest and only eating protein is a waste of money. Yes milk and PB&Js have sugar, yes you will gain both fat. That's the definition of bulking, but the important thing to realize is if you combine it with consistently doing a decent strength training program, you will build a ton of muscle. Gaining muscle is very hard, losing fat is not as hard and can be done by cuts after a good muscle base is built. A friend of mine recently started Starting strength, and after 11 weeks he gained 55lbs, 31lbs were lean body mass and the rest was fat. He also took his squat from 145 3x5 to 315 3x5. He ate more than 6000 calories a day, including a gallon of whole milk per day. This allowed him to recover from the training and grow a lot of muscle. He didn't miss a single workout. That was 2 months ago, I just talked to him and he has been cutting since then and has lost 15lbs, 12lbs of which were fat. He also increased his squat from 315 3x5 to 340 2x5 during his cut (he is only doing 2x5 because he is cutting). He's currently gained 28lbs of lean body mass and 12lbs of fat and he looks leaner than he did to begin with because of the gain in muscle.
Have you asked him what steroid cycle he's on? Because I am 100% positive that NO NATURAL PERSON gets those numbers without them. Even on a cycle that'd be very hard, but seeing how inexperienced he was when he started it may be doable.
I have tons of friends on steroids where we've discussed in detail and tons that aren't.
Great for your friend but don't let him fool you into thinking those results are capable by a normal natural person.
No, Zach was/is not taking steroids; being an extremely broke 20 year old college kid, he can barely afford his gallon of milk a day. He goes to the gym 3 days per week, never missing a workout, and added 10 pounds to his three work sets each time for 2 weeks, and then added 5 pounds to his work sets until he started slowing down to 315. He ate more than 6000 calories a day, thus recovering from the training and having enough left over for quite a bit of tissue growth. He gave his body a reason to need to be bigger, and then he provided it the means to get that way. The training drove the growth, and the growth facilitated the increased training load.
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Anyone who is a beginning lifter who STICKS WITH a program for several months will see amazing gains. For any program to work you have to stick with it.
I started at 255lbs 35+% bf (obese) lifting at beginner numbers (right under bodyweight for the most part). 2 years of consistency later I am at 215 lbs 15% bf; Deadlift 495x6, Squat 405x9, Bench 285x8, OHP 190x9, Pendlay Row 235x8. I have actually gained about 10lbs this year but that was because I stopped counting calories for 3 months and bulked up too much- currently on a cut and still making strength gains (just hit my 6th rep of 5 plate deadlift which was a huge accomplishment for me).
I wasted 2 months on cardio at the start then switched to 6 months of strong lifts and now I do a reverse pyramid training program. I take 2-3 week breaks in between each program. Food is about 90% of the work though- I premake all of my meals (weekly at first, daily now) and count all calories and macros. The gym session takes about 40mins 3 days a week.
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I did those numbers in about 4 or 5 months when I got my first real job. At 5'11", I went from 155 pounds to 205 pounds and my squat went from 115 to 325, bench from 115 to 280x3, and deadlift from 135 to 365x5. I hated eating so much by the end of that time I can't even describe it.
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The very thought of consuming the amount of calories talked about here makes me feel much better about the approach I am taking to overall fitness achievement. 6000 calories...my god...really? Now that I think about it, I can probably think of several guys in my local gym who must be doing this. They ARE strong...but they also look FAT. I'm not interested at all in the fat part...even if it means I will never lift impressive weights over my head. ;)
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I'm in on this challenge.
6'0" 210 lbs here.
Last week I hit 225x5 on bench, 275 x 5 on squat, and 315 x 5 on deadlift.
Looking to get to 275 x 5, 315 x 5, 405 x 5 respectively by February 6th (when I leave for a 9 day vacation)
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The very thought of consuming the amount of calories talked about here makes me feel much better about the approach I am taking to overall fitness achievement. 6000 calories...my god...really? Now that I think about it, I can probably think of several guys in my local gym who must be doing this. They ARE strong...but they also look FAT. I'm not interested at all in the fat part...even if it means I will never lift impressive weights over my head. ;)
You can't even tell my friend has gained any fat now that he's done his bulk and a cut afterwards, in just under 5 months he's gained 28lbs of lean body mass and 12lbs of fat, you can tell he's gained muscle, but you can't tell he's fatter
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The very thought of consuming the amount of calories talked about here makes me feel much better about the approach I am taking to overall fitness achievement. 6000 calories...my god...really? Now that I think about it, I can probably think of several guys in my local gym who must be doing this. They ARE strong...but they also look FAT. I'm not interested at all in the fat part...even if it means I will never lift impressive weights over my head. ;)
You can't even tell my friend has gained any fat now that he's done his bulk and a cut afterwards, in just under 5 months he's gained 28lbs of lean body mass and 12lbs of fat, you can tell he's gained muscle, but you can't tell he's fatter
Cool. I'm not trying to judge anyone...the bulk and cut method undoubtedly works for many. I was borderline obese for about 7 years prior to pulling the FIRE ripcord. I DETESTED this fact. Still do. Having lost a ton of weight (close to 60 pounds total, added about 8 pounds of muscle since) I simply cannot bring myself to bulk up (if this means adding significant bodyfat)...I like being lean (wife likes it too). So much so that I'm fine holding back muscle growth progress. I know this is an OVERREACTION to being overweight for so long...but this is where I'm coming from.
The bulk and cut strategy also sounds like it might not be the healthiest thing ever...is there any research out on this?
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The very thought of consuming the amount of calories talked about here makes me feel much better about the approach I am taking to overall fitness achievement. 6000 calories...my god...really? Now that I think about it, I can probably think of several guys in my local gym who must be doing this. They ARE strong...but they also look FAT. I'm not interested at all in the fat part...even if it means I will never lift impressive weights over my head. ;)
You can't even tell my friend has gained any fat now that he's done his bulk and a cut afterwards, in just under 5 months he's gained 28lbs of lean body mass and 12lbs of fat, you can tell he's gained muscle, but you can't tell he's fatter
Cool. I'm not trying to judge anyone...the bulk and cut method undoubtedly works for many. I was borderline obese for about 7 years prior to pulling the FIRE ripcord. I DETESTED this fact. Still do. Having lost a ton of weight (close to 60 pounds total, added about 8 pounds of muscle since) I simply cannot bring myself to bulk up (if this means adding significant bodyfat)...I like being lean (wife likes it too). So much so that I'm fine holding back muscle growth progress. I know this is an OVERREACTION to being overweight for so long...but this is where I'm coming from.
The bulk and cut strategy also sounds like it might not be the healthiest thing ever...is there any research out on this?
nothing wrong with not wanting to do a big bulk, it's just the optimal way to gain muscle but you can definitely still gain muscle without a big bulk. I'm not to sure on the research, personally I think losing more than 2lbs per week is unhealthy and gaining more than 5lbs per week is probably unhealthy, definitely having 25+% bodyfat is unhealthy. But thats just my guess, I'm not necessarily sure on what the limits and risks are.
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Agree with Jeremy, I really haven't heard of anything significant on either end in terms of normal gain and loss. The damage you hear about happens from really hard cuts that end up causing severe dehydration (I remember in high school hearing about a Michigan wrestler dying for this reason, Reese was his name), or from the steroid + stim stacks (like the old school ECA) that rip up your organs and heart (Munzer and that "Zyzz" kid from 4-5 years ago). Excessive long term weight is a problem, but you would be surprised about how healthy an active overweight (think big powerlifters) person can be compared to inactive, less overweight people. I have seen some comparative statistics on this but nothing significant in sample size so probably not enough to sell it on a message board.
Realistically, doing a really good recomp (adding muscle while cutting fat) without steroids beyond the initial building stages is just god awful slow to the point of being non-productive for most of us. Our bodies, generally speaking, really do not like being too lean as it's against our biological survival instinct. You will hear about people gaining muscle and losing fat, but it's either due to starting out overweight or simply not understanding what 12%/scrawny vs 18%/muscled actually looks like. In my lifting groups the people who have attempted this always end up falling behind in a 6 month time frame.
Overall, your best bet is to get serious about gaining some muscle, then get serious about keeping it while cutting fat slowly, and in half a year you can be carrying quite a bit more muscle and be lean.
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I wouldn't necessarily jump to accusations of steroid use right away.
In my 30s, I started eating much more and very strictly following a weight training program. I was able to add 30 lbs on to my frame (180 - 210) and my lifts went up tremendously over about 8 months to a year.
The time period posted above was 11 weeks, which is not even three months. And he supposedly gained over 55 pounds in that extremely brief period.
Trixr606 knows the score.
Anyway, to the poster who asked about diet, please do not load up on all of the sugary crap (milk, bread, PB&J) recommended by Jeremy E. Those foods are completely unnecessary to building muscle, and your health will suffer for it. In addition, if I recall correctly, you are older, and in your forties a poor diet (and Jeremy E is recommending a poor diet) goes straight to your waistline.
Eat healthy and gain. Eggs, oatmeal, chicken breast, rice, broccoli, asparagus, spinach, these should be the building blocks while you are lifting. See my recommendations above if you are serious. Feel free to disregard if you are not.
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I wouldn't necessarily jump to accusations of steroid use right away.
In my 30s, I started eating much more and very strictly following a weight training program. I was able to add 30 lbs on to my frame (180 - 210) and my lifts went up tremendously over about 8 months to a year.
The time period posted above was 11 weeks, which is not even three months. And he supposedly gained over 55 pounds in that extremely brief period.
Trixr606 knows the score.
Anyway, to the poster who asked about diet, please do not load up on all of the sugary crap (milk, bread, PB&J) recommended by Jeremy E. Those foods are completely unnecessary to building muscle, and your health will suffer for it. In addition, if I recall correctly, you are older, and in your forties a poor diet (and Jeremy E is recommending a poor diet) goes straight to your waistline.
Eat healthy and gain. Eggs, oatmeal, chicken breast, rice, broccoli, asparagus, spinach, these should be the building blocks while you are lifting. See my recommendations above if you are serious. Feel free to disregard if you are not.
If you eat more calories than you use, you will gain the difference in weight. If the difference is bigger, you'll gain even more weight. Gaining 55 pounds in 11 weeks is an extra 5lbs per week, if your TDE(total daily expenditure) is 3000 calories and you eat 6000 calories per day you will gain about 7lbs per week. I'm not sure what my friends TDE is but it probably averaged slightly more than 3000 during those 11 weeks so he gained 55 lbs in 11 weeks. The way to gain weight is to eat more calories than you use, the way to lose weight is to eat less calories than you use, it's that simple.
What part are you having trouble with?
There is nothing wrong with eating milk, peanut butter, bread, or jam, and I agree it is important to get your daily dose of protein, vegetables, vitamins etc. But for someone who wants muscle growth and wants to run a 500+ surplus, you can get in the essentials + add in things to help meet your calorie goals. Not many people can eat 4000 calories a day of clean food. Easy ways to bulk include whole milk, PB&Js, Oatmeal with Nutella & PB. Someone who doesn't want to gain fat but still wants to build muscle can do a small 500 calorie surplus per day and gain mostly muscle, if your TDE is 3000 and you want to up that to 3500 calories, those other foods are very helpful. Talk to any reputable strength coach and they will say the same. The MOST reputable strength coach, the one who designed the most common novice program that the OP is doing, Mark Rippetoe, often recommends an extra gallon of whole milk everyday while doing his starting strength program(which the OP is doing) If you want optimal muscle gains. This is a bit extreme, especially for older people, I agree. But an extra 500 calories in whole milk(5 cups), I think is acceptable, even though it's an extra 60g of sugar.
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There is nothing wrong with eating milk, peanut butter, bread, or jam . . .
Sugar, sugar, and more sugar . . . Sugar is not a necessary nutrient.
Not many people can eat 4000 calories a day of clean food.
Well, we agree here, but I guess it depends upon what his goals are. Not many people can save 50% of their income, either. That does not change the financial advice I give when asked.
Mark Rippetoe, often recommends an extra gallon of whole milk everyday while doing his starting strength program(which the OP is doing) If you want optimal muscle gains.
Look, no offense here, because I think Rippetoe is a great strength coach, but Mr. Rippetoe is FAT. I doubt that the poster asking diet advice wants to look like that. I certainly don't. Google his name and click on images. I follow some of his technique advice on lifting, especially videos where he is showing technique, but not his diet advice.
This is a bit extreme, especially for older people, I agree. But an extra 500 calories in whole milk(5 cups), I think is acceptable, even though it's an extra 60g of sugar.
Holy crap, 60g of sugar? A Coca Cola has only 39 g of sugar! LOL!
I think sugar is bad. I am in my 40s. I have visible abs, stand 6 feet, and weigh 220 pounds. When cutting, I remove almost all fruit because of the sugar content. I think due to my age I have a perspective that is probably valuable to the poster asking for diet advice.
When I was younger, I followed something looking like your diet advice. I could bench press 315 for 6 repetitions without the use of steroids, but I did not look as good as I do now. The difference is in the diet. Back then I looked smooth. No cuts. That is what that diet will do for you. Make you look puffy and smooth. No augment here that you can't get strong on it. You can. I agree. I did it.
But I WISH I had known back then what I know now about diet.
I'll let the poster asking diet advice hash out your arguments and mine and decide on his own which seems most appropriate for his own situation. My recommendation is that increased calories come in the form of meat and eggs. He should then consume carbohydrates on lifting days sufficient to fuel his training, but only from complex sources (oatmeal, brown rice, fibrous vegetables).
Yep, it is more difficult to eat this way than Jeremy E.'s way, but the results will be so much more worth it.
It's badassity . . . wink.
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There is nothing wrong with eating milk, peanut butter, bread, or jam . . .
Sugar, sugar, and more sugar . . . Sugar is not a necessary nutrient.
Not many people can eat 4000 calories a day of clean food.
Well, we agree here, but I guess it depends upon what his goals are. Not many people can save 50% of their income, either. That does not change the financial advice I give when asked.
Mark Rippetoe, often recommends an extra gallon of whole milk everyday while doing his starting strength program(which the OP is doing) If you want optimal muscle gains.
Look, no offense here, because I think Rippetoe is a great strength coach, but Mr. Rippetoe is FAT. I doubt that the poster asking diet advice wants to look like that. I certainly don't. Google his name and click on images. I follow some of his technique advice on lifting, especially videos where he is showing technique, but not his diet advice.
This is a bit extreme, especially for older people, I agree. But an extra 500 calories in whole milk(5 cups), I think is acceptable, even though it's an extra 60g of sugar.
Holy crap, 60g of sugar? A Coca Cola has only 39 g of sugar! LOL!
I think sugar is bad. I am in my 40s. I have visible abs, stand 6 feet, and weigh 220 pounds. When cutting, I remove almost all fruit because of the sugar content. I think due to my age I have a perspective that is probably valuable to the poster asking for diet advice.
When I was younger, I followed something looking like your diet advice. I could bench press 315 for 6 repetitions without the use of steroids, but I did not look as good as I do now. The difference is in the diet. Back then I looked smooth. No cuts. That is what that diet will do for you. Make you look puffy and smooth. No augment here that you can't get strong on it. You can. I agree. I did it.
But I WISH I had known back then what I know now about diet.
I'll let the poster asking diet advice hash out your arguments and mine and decide on his own which seems most appropriate for his own situation. My recommendation is that increased calories come in the form of meat and eggs. He should then consume carbohydrates on lifting days sufficient to fuel his training, but only from complex sources (oatmeal, brown rice, fibrous vegetables).
Yep, it is more difficult to eat this way than Jeremy E.'s way, but the results will be so much more worth it.
It's badassity . . . wink.
If you want the increased calories to come in the form of meat and eggs, you are adding a lot to the grocery bill.
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If you want the increased calories to come in the form of meat and eggs, you are adding a lot to the grocery bill.
And this IS the MMM forum! LOL! Price matters. Family of five here, and the grocery bill is $550 a month. My wife is an expert at finding meat and eggs at the lowest prices. Her secret weapon is the supermarket chain Aldi, but she goes to wherever she can find the best deals, once every two weeks.
We eat a LOT of chicken and eggs. November through January, we eat a lot of turkey, because for some reason it is cheaper. We eat very healthily, and my wife is an excellent cook, so life is good.
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Sugar is not a necessary nutrient, but when the goal is purely more overall calories, then the reference frame is different. Once you hit your core nutrient needs, your body gives 0 shits if the carb chain is simple or complex. Eating sugary food is a really easy way to load calories because it gets processed through faster and doesn't seem to have the same gherlin response. Eating something fatty is going to bog you down from hitting a high caloric load.
Your points are valid but not quite for the purpose of the discussion of gaining a lot of strength quickly.
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At 43 years old and not doing power lifting for a living, I prefer to choose the healthiest (while affordable) diet possible. After 4 months of SS program, I increased my lifts by 50% on average (from 30% for bench press to 70% for power clean) and my BW increased by 5lb (3%). On top of that, I sleep better and I dont have back pain anymore. The increased requirement of proteins and calories in my diet comes mostly from chicken, fish, oatmeal, olive and canola oil, eggs, potatoes, cheese, PB and almonds. From now, I still need to improve my lifts by another 20% to reach my goal of Intermediate Strength
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At 43 years old . . . and not doing power lifting for a living, I prefer to choose the healthiest (while affordable) diet possible. After 4 months of SS program, I increased my lifts by 50% on average (from 30% for bench press to 70% for power clean) and my BW increased by 5lb (3%). On top of that, I sleep better and I dont have back pain anymore. The increased requirement of proteins and calories in my diet comes mostly from chicken, fish, oatmeal, olive and canola oil, eggs, potatoes, cheese, PB and almonds. From now, I still need to improve my lifts by another 20% to reach my goal of Intermediate Strength
Sounds like you have it together.
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I deloaded my Press and my Bench for about 15% couple weeks ago and then, hit a plateau again with only few pounds more. Then, I decided it's time to move from Starting Strength and start Practical Programing. I use the 5/3/1 schedual for the % of 1RM. I discovered 1RM calculators and tried it for many lifts from 3RM to 10RM and it looks pretty consistent and reliable. So, according to this, my 1RM for squat is 325, bench 200, press 140 and DL 370. It is considered anywhere from 40%-70% for a 180lb male, 40-49 years old. If I would try a real 1RM for the big 3, the total should be between 850 and 900. I made a schedual for the next 5 months and keep you updated!
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I deloaded my Press and my Bench for about 15% couple weeks ago and then, hit a plateau again with only few pounds more. Then, I decided it's time to move from Starting Strength and start Practical Programing. I use the 5/3/1 schedual for the % of 1RM. I discovered 1RM calculators and tried it for many lifts from 3RM to 10RM and it looks pretty consistent and reliable. So, according to this, my 1RM for squat is 325, bench 200, press 140 and DL 370. It is considered anywhere from 40%-70% for a 180lb male, 40-49 years old. If I would try a real 1RM for the big 3, the total should be between 850 and 900. I made a schedual for the next 5 months and keep you updated!
5/3/1 is a great program and my lifts have gone way up since I started it 6 months ago. Right now my combined lifts are 890 lbs at 187 lbs. BW, not sure what I was lifting when I started but I've definitely made some significant gains.
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I deloaded my Press and my Bench for about 15% couple weeks ago and then, hit a plateau again with only few pounds more. Then, I decided it's time to move from Starting Strength and start Practical Programing. I use the 5/3/1 schedual for the % of 1RM. I discovered 1RM calculators and tried it for many lifts from 3RM to 10RM and it looks pretty consistent and reliable. So, according to this, my 1RM for squat is 325, bench 200, press 140 and DL 370. It is considered anywhere from 40%-70% for a 180lb male, 40-49 years old. If I would try a real 1RM for the big 3, the total should be between 850 and 900. I made a schedual for the next 5 months and keep you updated!
5/3/1 is a great program and my lifts have gone way up since I started it 6 months ago. Right now my combined lifts are 890 lbs at 187 lbs. BW, not sure what I was lifting when I started but I've definitely made some significant gains.
Did you attempt your 1RM? The closest I went was 5RM then 3RM and then used 1RM calculators. I feel like I am not ready for a real 1RM attempt and it's not usefull for me to take any risk. I just use these numbers because it's the way lifters benchmark.
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My experience has been that 3 and 5 rep sets don't always indicate what your true 1RM will be. It's worthwhile to just do a 1 rm now and again if you really want to know.
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My experience has been that 3 and 5 rep sets don't always indicate what your true 1RM will be. It's worthwhile to just do a 1 rm now and again if you really want to know.
No doubt my real 1RM could be different than predicted but my goal is just to get stronger over time. If I can lift 175x3RM now and 185x3RM in few months, then 205x3 by the end of 2016, no doubt I will be stronger. No one care about how much weight I can put on the bar.
Since I am on 5/3/1 now, every "cycle" there is a set I can attempt as much reps as I want with about 85.5% of my estimated 1RM. If this keep improving, I'm happy with that!
If some day I feel it and really want to know my 1RM, I'll let you know.
Thank for following and support!
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Inspired by MMM article series (back to 2012-2013) about strength, I began lifting weigth this summer. My bodyweight is 175 and I'm 43. My actual lifts after 4 weeks are: Bench 155x5, Squat 215x5 and Deadlift 235x5. This make me a kind of Novice lifter. My goal is to reach the Intermediate level ASAP (before the end of 2015) this mean Bench 195x5, Squat 260x5 and Deadlift 305x5. I am pretty much confident about Squat and Deadlift but it may take longer for the Bench...
My long term goal is to someday reach the advanced level in about 3 years
Actually, I bench 175x5, squat 260x10, Deadlift 305x10 and press 120x6. My bench and standing-press are still under the intermediate mark but they keep improving. BW went from 175 to 180 very fast but BW is pretty stable in the last month.
I follow the 5/3/1 progression wich help a lot to recover. Usually, even if I give everything I got into a workout, 36-48 hours later I feel brand new again and ready to go. Yesterday night, I attempted my max reps for deadlift at 305 (I did 10) and went to sleep 1 hour later. This morning, it's like I just had a walk in the park!
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I'm 48, and I do not ever do 1 rep maxes anymore. I got out my log book and took a look. Last chest day, I did incline press first, with a barbell, 225 for 6, 6, and 6. Then I did four sets of incline flies with 40 pound dumbbells. This was all with the goal of tiring me out so that my flat bench would not be heavy. My next exercise was bench, which was 245 for 8 repetitions.
I have some shoulder issues that heavy bench pressing seems to aggravate. I was benching 315 for 6 a few years ago and 275 for 15 repetitions (that would be first up, without tiring myself doing other exercises first).
I do not do back squats anymore, because of my shoulder issue I cannot get my hand in position. Front squats I recently did 265 for 4 reps, going very deep.
Deadlifts, again, lower back issues keep me in the 275 to 315 range for 6 to 8 reps. Everytime I go over about 315 (3 plates per side) I end up tweaking my lower back and having to avoid the gym for a while, so it is just not worth it to me to go heavy on deadlifts anymore.
Anyway, it is keeping old age at bay some, and I am still strong enough to garner the respect of even some of the younger lifters. Also, I look better at 48 than I did in my 20s and 30s (much leaner and more muscular looking).
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I gave up on 5/3/1 (at least for a while) because after 1 month, all of my lifts are stuck. I came back on the Practical Programing and alternate all of my lifts with my 8RM, 12RM and 15 RM.
As an example, on monday I would bench 3 sets with my 15RM weigth (12-12-12+) and on friday, I bench again with my 12RM weigth (8-8-8+)
Actually, I feel a lot better and my BW is now close to 185 (started from 175 last july)
My knee bursitis (not related to weigth lifting) is almost gone and I can squat 280 for 8 reps now.
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I gave up on 5/3/1 (at least for a while) because after 1 month, all of my lifts are stuck. I came back on the Practical Programing and alternate all of my lifts with my 8RM, 12RM and 15 RM.
As an example, on monday I would bench 3 sets with my 15RM weigth (12-12-12+) and on friday, I bench again with my 12RM weigth (8-8-8+)
Actually, I feel a lot better and my BW is now close to 185 (started from 175 last july)
My knee bursitis (not related to weigth lifting) is almost gone and I can squat 280 for 8 reps now.
I think after Starting Strength when you become an intermediate, a great program to switch to is the Texas Method, take a look at it and maybe give it a try if it looks like something you'd like.
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I gave up on 5/3/1 (at least for a while) because after 1 month, all of my lifts are stuck. I came back on the Practical Programing and alternate all of my lifts with my 8RM, 12RM and 15 RM.
As an example, on monday I would bench 3 sets with my 15RM weigth (12-12-12+) and on friday, I bench again with my 12RM weigth (8-8-8+)
Actually, I feel a lot better and my BW is now close to 185 (started from 175 last july)
My knee bursitis (not related to weigth lifting) is almost gone and I can squat 280 for 8 reps now.
I think after Starting Strength when you become an intermediate, a great program to switch to is the Texas Method, take a look at it and maybe give it a try if it looks like something you'd like.
Thanks you Jeremy E, I will have a look at Texas Method. Do you think 5/3/1 is for advanced lifters or I gave up to early?
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5/3/1 is very dependant on your accessory exercises. I also found that the stuff outlined in Beyond 531 (with the addition of the Joker sets and first set last) worked much better. It's a very flexible program. I was able to work it into a full schedule of wrestling and Jiu-Jitsu, later with a couple 70 km bike rides a week while on it. For it to be effective, you need to figure out accessory exercises that complement the other exercise you get in a week (or that make up for the lack thereof).
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I gave up on 5/3/1 (at least for a while) because after 1 month, all of my lifts are stuck. I came back on the Practical Programing and alternate all of my lifts with my 8RM, 12RM and 15 RM.
As an example, on monday I would bench 3 sets with my 15RM weigth (12-12-12+) and on friday, I bench again with my 12RM weigth (8-8-8+)
Actually, I feel a lot better and my BW is now close to 185 (started from 175 last july)
My knee bursitis (not related to weigth lifting) is almost gone and I can squat 280 for 8 reps now.
I think after Starting Strength when you become an intermediate, a great program to switch to is the Texas Method, take a look at it and maybe give it a try if it looks like something you'd like.
Thanks you Jeremy E, I will have a look at Texas Method. Do you think 5/3/1 is for advanced lifters or I gave up to early?
Personally I've never done the 5 3 1 program, however one of the powerlifters I look up to has given a review on the subject,
http://www.powerliftingtowin.com/beyond-531/
The review is about whether it is a good powerlifting routine, so keep that in mind.
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Le Barbu - Since you hit a plateau have you tried to increase your Macros (Protein, Carbs, Fats)? Sometimes the only way to get stronger is to get bigger. I'm always my strongest when I'm at my heaviest regardless of programming. Eating can be a chore when your trying to stay above maintenance, but it should be part of the plan if you want to reach maximal strength.
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Le Barbu - Since you hit a plateau have you tried to increase your Macros (Protein, Carbs, Fats)? Sometimes the only way to get stronger is to get bigger. I'm always my strongest when I'm at my heaviest regardless of programming. Eating can be a chore when your trying to stay above maintenance, but it should be part of the plan if you want to reach maximal strength.
You may be right on that one and I am actualy at my max BW ever. I just started the Texas Method and keep eating a lot. I keep in mind that genetic can also be a limit at some point.
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Fourth week on the Texas Method and it feels great so far (perfect for a beginner to intermediate trainee like me). Plenty of volume, active recovery and intensity!
My BW(184) and lifts keeps improving. I hit the advanced mark for the squat (295x6 and 270x10) and the deadlift (325x7)
My bench (175x6) and shoulder press (122.5x5) are still below the intermediate mark but I only need another 10% increase to reach my goal.
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Fourth week on the Texas Method and it feels great so far (perfect for a beginner to intermediate trainee like me). Plenty of volume, active recovery and intensity!
My BW(184) and lifts keeps improving. I hit the advanced mark for the squat (295x6 and 270x10) and the deadlift (325x7)
My bench (175x6) and shoulder press (122.5x5) are still below the intermediate mark but I only need another 10% increase to reach my goal.
congratulations, glad you're liking the program
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Fourth week on the Texas Method and it feels great so far (perfect for a beginner to intermediate trainee like me). Plenty of volume, active recovery and intensity!
My BW(184) and lifts keeps improving. I hit the advanced mark for the squat (295x6 and 270x10) and the deadlift (325x7)
My bench (175x6) and shoulder press (122.5x5) are still below the intermediate mark but I only need another 10% increase to reach my goal.
congratulations, glad you're liking the program
Thank You Jeremy!
Rippetoe says this weekly cycling fits perfectly for the one who want to try a saturday meet (just skip the friday "intensity" workout) so I may use this oportunity to test my 3RM and 1RM if I feel it.
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Fourth week on the Texas Method and it feels great so far (perfect for a beginner to intermediate trainee like me). Plenty of volume, active recovery and intensity!
My BW(184) and lifts keeps improving. I hit the advanced mark for the squat (295x6 and 270x10) and the deadlift (325x7)
My bench (175x6) and shoulder press (122.5x5) are still below the intermediate mark but I only need another 10% increase to reach my goal.
congratulations, glad you're liking the program
Thank You Jeremy!
Rippetoe says this weekly cycling fits perfectly for the one who want to try a saturday meet (just skip the friday "intensity" workout) so I may use this oportunity to test my 3RM and 1RM if I feel it.
Nice, if you feel comfortable, you should schedule a powerlifting meet, and tell your friends and family about it and tell them what your goals are. I've found this to be the absolute best way to stay motivated.
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Smart accessories and variations are the way to blast through plateaus imo. I am not an expert, but my one fairly non mustachian expense is that I pay a powerlifting coach to write my programming. Cycles are usually 10-16 weeks, depending on various factors, and accessories/variations usually change each cycle depending on where I am weak. For example, I used to be weakest on deadlift off the floor. Solution? Deadlift stance box squats and lots of deficit pulls. Now I am weakest at about 3 inches off the floor, so I do more block pulling.
So far, I haven't really plateaued at all and despite being inconsistent with my schedule I have made huge gains with this flexible approach. As of today, I've been with this coach for about 11 months and my deadlift has gone from 305 to 475. Admittedly, deadlift is my best lift by far (tall, long legs/arms, short torso), but I've also put 75 lbs on my bench and 130lbs on my squat over that time. Every time I max at the end of a cycle I am setting solid PRs and I don't see that stopping any time soon (although I know progress will slow as I get stronger). Anyway, fun thread.Good luck and happy Gainz everyone!
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Fourth week on the Texas Method and it feels great so far (perfect for a beginner to intermediate trainee like me). Plenty of volume, active recovery and intensity!
My BW(184) and lifts keeps improving. I hit the advanced mark for the squat (295x6 and 270x10) and the deadlift (325x7)
My bench (175x6) and shoulder press (122.5x5) are still below the intermediate mark but I only need another 10% increase to reach my goal.
Update?
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Fourth week on the Texas Method and it feels great so far (perfect for a beginner to intermediate trainee like me). Plenty of volume, active recovery and intensity!
My BW(184) and lifts keeps improving. I hit the advanced mark for the squat (295x6 and 270x10) and the deadlift (325x7)
My bench (175x6) and shoulder press (122.5x5) are still below the intermediate mark but I only need another 10% increase to reach my goal.
Update?
Just began week 7 yesterday. My DL and squats are on hold these days because little "incomforts" were recurents. I just reset weights at 60-70% to fully recover. I am confident to come back soon to my PRs in few weeks anyway.
I finaly tried 1RM on shoulder-press and bench to test the 1RM calculators accuracy.
Shoulder-press: 122.5x5 (1RM proxy.141) 125x4 (1RM proxy.139) 130x3 (1RM proxy.140) 135x2 (1RM proxy.142) and then failed the 140 attempt...lack of technique + lack of concentration. I am confident I will be able soon. My goal is to reach the 155 mark some day (for real or calculated from 5RM or 3RM)
Bench-press: 177.5x5 (1RM proxy.204) 190x2 (1RM proxy.200) achieved 200x1 and then failed the 205 attempt but this one was damned close! My goal is to reach the 225 mark.
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A few weeks ago I watched a 178 lb guy, who has never done power lifting and competes in physique competitions, deadlift 635 lbs. I believe that's the most I've ever seen anyone deadlift in a gym, especially for a 178 lb ripped physique competitor lol
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A few weeks ago I watched a 178 lb guy, who has never done power lifting and competes in physique competitions, deadlift 635 lbs. I believe that's the most I've ever seen anyone deadlift in a gym, especially for a 178 lb ripped physique competitor lol
That's quite impressive. The world record for a drug tested deadlift at 180 lbs is 766. (http://www.powerliftingwatch.com/records/raw/world (http://www.powerliftingwatch.com/records/raw/world))
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Today, pressed 6x125, then 1x140, then 1x145
It brings my estimated 1RM to 147 (last PR was 143) and goal is 155!
I still need a 6% increase to reach intermediate level at this lift
Btw, yesterday I got to lift 100x50lb pigs at my job. Easy...
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Now, I can bench press 205 and I am confident I can achieve 210 soon. Intermediate level for my BW and age is 225
Press: my PR is 145 actually and I intend to lift 150 on saturday morning. Intermediate level goal of 155 is close now!
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I completed week #9 into Texas Method
My lifts improved by another 3-5% over this period and lots of minor issues that were developing are gone now. The volume, recovery and intensity days over a training week fits perfectly with my schedual.
Now, I'm thinking to switch for the "look good at the beach mode" after week #16 in may then come back in september for another 16 weeks stretch. I would make a training plan based on the same core lifts but perform 4 sets of 8 with about 75% of my 1RM or wathever weight I can handle to complete 4x8.
Does some seasoned lifter here ever tried this and do you think it will hurt my long time strength goal?
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I completed week #9 into Texas Method
My lifts improved by another 3-5% over this period and lots of minor issues that were developing are gone now. The volume, recovery and intensity days over a training week fits perfectly with my schedual.
Now, I'm thinking to switch for the "look good at the beach mode" after week #16 in may then come back in september for another 16 weeks stretch. I would make a training plan based on the same core lifts but perform 4 sets of 8 with about 75% of my 1RM or wathever weight I can handle to complete 4x8.
Does some seasoned lifter here ever tried this and do you think it will hurt my long time strength goal?
it's pretty typical for people to cycle off pure strength in the spring and start cutting to look good. Who doesn't want to look good wearing less clothes!!!
It's not a bad idea- I personally get bored with doing the same set/reps- but it's fine- I wouldn't get to hung up on weights and % just keep driving foward- anything 4 x 6- 4x 8 will be okay- you won't see big gains on your lifts- but you'll keep yourself from getting weak then you can jump back into a strength cycle if you want.
I usually only change my diet -and tailor my plans to make the most of my diet- so if I'm bulking November to April- I'll do strength or size- and hammer the hell out of it to make whatever gains I can. - I round out- reverse diet and start a new program knowing I'm going to make NO strength or size gains while cutting- but use a periodization program deigned for powerlifters to try to keep my numbers up.
losing 5 pounds off a lift is acceptable- losing 25 is not- at least for me.
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I completed week #9 into Texas Method
My lifts improved by another 3-5% over this period and lots of minor issues that were developing are gone now. The volume, recovery and intensity days over a training week fits perfectly with my schedual.
Now, I'm thinking to switch for the "look good at the beach mode" after week #16 in may then come back in september for another 16 weeks stretch. I would make a training plan based on the same core lifts but perform 4 sets of 8 with about 75% of my 1RM or wathever weight I can handle to complete 4x8.
Does some seasoned lifter here ever tried this and do you think it will hurt my long time strength goal?
it's pretty typical for people to cycle off pure strength in the spring and start cutting to look good. Who doesn't want to look good wearing less clothes!!!
It's not a bad idea- I personally get bored with doing the same set/reps- but it's fine- I wouldn't get to hung up on weights and % just keep driving foward- anything 4 x 6- 4x 8 will be okay- you won't see big gains on your lifts- but you'll keep yourself from getting weak then you can jump back into a strength cycle if you want.
I usually only change my diet -and tailor my plans to make the most of my diet- so if I'm bulking November to April- I'll do strength or size- and hammer the hell out of it to make whatever gains I can. - I round out- reverse diet and start a new program knowing I'm going to make NO strength or size gains while cutting- but use a periodization program deigned for powerlifters to try to keep my numbers up.
losing 5 pounds off a lift is acceptable- losing 25 is not- at least for me.
JoRocka, you pretty much summerized my plan. A little change after 4 months on the same routine may have some benefits both mental and physical ones. Progress is so tough to get, I would not accept to loose much. I just kept eating a lot for 9 months now and gained about 8-10lb and BF in the 20% zone. Just removing 2-3% would make me look a lot better now because there is some muscle under the skin now!
-
I completed week #9 into Texas Method
My lifts improved by another 3-5% over this period and lots of minor issues that were developing are gone now. The volume, recovery and intensity days over a training week fits perfectly with my schedual.
Now, I'm thinking to switch for the "look good at the beach mode" after week #16 in may then come back in september for another 16 weeks stretch. I would make a training plan based on the same core lifts but perform 4 sets of 8 with about 75% of my 1RM or wathever weight I can handle to complete 4x8.
Does some seasoned lifter here ever tried this and do you think it will hurt my long time strength goal?
Your goal is to be intermediate on bench, press, squat and deadlift right? You are just about there. A program that might help you look good at the beach could be Jason Blaha's ice cream fitness 5x5 program. It's a ton of volume and I didn't like running it, but I think it would get you what you're looking for. For me, doing 25 squat reps at 75-80% of my 1rm 3 workouts per week was killer and I just hated it, but it definitely has enough volume to put some muscle on you. You can google it and find it pretty easily. As an alternative, here is a program I did before last summer when I wanted to look good. I'm not an professional programmer, so it would probably be better to go with something from a reputable coach, but I'll show it anyhow.
M (heavy)
3x3-6 squat
2x3-6 deadlift
4x3-6 pause bench
4x3-6 row
2x8 skullcrushers
2x8 curls
2x10 glute ham raises
2x10 good mornings
2xALAP(as long as possible) planks
W (light)
2-count pause Squats 2x3-6
Press 2x3-6
Row 2x3-6
CGBP 2x8
Weighted Chinups 2x8
Power Shrugs 8x1
Static Bar hold 2xALAP (this was just to help with my grip, as I like to use a traditional deadlift grip)
Hyperextensions 2x10
Ab wheel rollouts for 2 min
F (heavy)
3x3-6 squat
2x3-6 deadlift
4x3-6 pause bench
4x3-6 row
2x8 weighted dips
2x8 curls
2x10 glute ham raises
2x10 good mornings
2xALAP planks
I had good results with this program, but it took about 2 hrs to do monday and friday workouts. For the sets of 3-6 reps, I followed weight progression similar to that in PNP2 and PNP3 in programmingtowin. So deadlift and Squat, if you get 5-6 reps add 5 lbs next time, if you get 3-4 reps add 2.5lbs next time, if you get less than 3lbs deload 10%. For bench, if you get 5-6 reps add 2.5lbs next time, if you get 3-4 reps add 1.25lbs next time, less than 3 reps deload 10%. You use the rep amount from your set with the lowest reps. If you choose to do this program, make sure you know how to do all the lifts. A lot of people have too narrow of a grip with CGBP and skullcrushers, and a lot of people try to keep stiff legs during good mornings, all of which can easily cause injuries.
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I completed week #9 into Texas Method
My lifts improved by another 3-5% over this period and lots of minor issues that were developing are gone now. The volume, recovery and intensity days over a training week fits perfectly with my schedual.
Now, I'm thinking to switch for the "look good at the beach mode" after week #16 in may then come back in september for another 16 weeks stretch. I would make a training plan based on the same core lifts but perform 4 sets of 8 with about 75% of my 1RM or wathever weight I can handle to complete 4x8.
Does some seasoned lifter here ever tried this and do you think it will hurt my long time strength goal?
it's pretty typical for people to cycle off pure strength in the spring and start cutting to look good. Who doesn't want to look good wearing less clothes!!!
It's not a bad idea- I personally get bored with doing the same set/reps- but it's fine- I wouldn't get to hung up on weights and % just keep driving foward- anything 4 x 6- 4x 8 will be okay- you won't see big gains on your lifts- but you'll keep yourself from getting weak then you can jump back into a strength cycle if you want.
I usually only change my diet -and tailor my plans to make the most of my diet- so if I'm bulking November to April- I'll do strength or size- and hammer the hell out of it to make whatever gains I can. - I round out- reverse diet and start a new program knowing I'm going to make NO strength or size gains while cutting- but use a periodization program deigned for powerlifters to try to keep my numbers up.
losing 5 pounds off a lift is acceptable- losing 25 is not- at least for me.
JoRocka, you pretty much summerized my plan. A little change after 4 months on the same routine may have some benefits both mental and physical ones. Progress is so tough to get, I would not accept to loose much. I just kept eating a lot for 9 months now and gained about 8-10lb and BF in the 20% zone. Just removing 2-3% would make me look a lot better now because there is some muscle under the skin now!
Maybe I should of read more before I posted that last post. Nothing wrong with cutting, but if you are going to cut, you shouldn't go to a program with more volume, you should go to a program with less volume. You have a lot less energy when you are cutting, so workouts get a lot harder, and if workouts were hard before, and you start eating less and adding volume, you should expect to start failing workouts. Also, it's very important to keep protein intake up during a cut, as it will help you keep more muscle. Protein also satiates you more than carbs or fats per calorie, so on a cut if you eat mainly protein you will feel more full than if you ate more carbs/fats.
-
I completed week #9 into Texas Method
My lifts improved by another 3-5% over this period and lots of minor issues that were developing are gone now. The volume, recovery and intensity days over a training week fits perfectly with my schedual.
Now, I'm thinking to switch for the "look good at the beach mode" after week #16 in may then come back in september for another 16 weeks stretch. I would make a training plan based on the same core lifts but perform 4 sets of 8 with about 75% of my 1RM or wathever weight I can handle to complete 4x8.
Does some seasoned lifter here ever tried this and do you think it will hurt my long time strength goal?
it's pretty typical for people to cycle off pure strength in the spring and start cutting to look good. Who doesn't want to look good wearing less clothes!!!
It's not a bad idea- I personally get bored with doing the same set/reps- but it's fine- I wouldn't get to hung up on weights and % just keep driving foward- anything 4 x 6- 4x 8 will be okay- you won't see big gains on your lifts- but you'll keep yourself from getting weak then you can jump back into a strength cycle if you want.
I usually only change my diet -and tailor my plans to make the most of my diet- so if I'm bulking November to April- I'll do strength or size- and hammer the hell out of it to make whatever gains I can. - I round out- reverse diet and start a new program knowing I'm going to make NO strength or size gains while cutting- but use a periodization program deigned for powerlifters to try to keep my numbers up.
losing 5 pounds off a lift is acceptable- losing 25 is not- at least for me.
JoRocka, you pretty much summerized my plan. A little change after 4 months on the same routine may have some benefits both mental and physical ones. Progress is so tough to get, I would not accept to loose much. I just kept eating a lot for 9 months now and gained about 8-10lb and BF in the 20% zone. Just removing 2-3% would make me look a lot better now because there is some muscle under the skin now!
Maybe I should of read more before I posted that last post. Nothing wrong with cutting, but if you are going to cut, you shouldn't go to a program with more volume, you should go to a program with less volume. You have a lot less energy when you are cutting, so workouts get a lot harder, and if workouts were hard before, and you start eating less and adding volume, you should expect to start failing workouts. Also, it's very important to keep protein intake up during a cut, as it will help you keep more muscle. Protein also satiates you more than carbs or fats per calorie, so on a cut if you eat mainly protein you will feel more full than if you ate more carbs/fats.
By cutting, I just meant stop eating like a pig all the time. I just dont eat clean for months, I just eat a lot. Probably 6-7 of the 10lb I gained were muscle and if I cut back 5lb total I would be happy.
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I completed week #9 into Texas Method
My lifts improved by another 3-5% over this period and lots of minor issues that were developing are gone now. The volume, recovery and intensity days over a training week fits perfectly with my schedual.
Now, I'm thinking to switch for the "look good at the beach mode" after week #16 in may then come back in september for another 16 weeks stretch. I would make a training plan based on the same core lifts but perform 4 sets of 8 with about 75% of my 1RM or wathever weight I can handle to complete 4x8.
Does some seasoned lifter here ever tried this and do you think it will hurt my long time strength goal?
it's pretty typical for people to cycle off pure strength in the spring and start cutting to look good. Who doesn't want to look good wearing less clothes!!!
It's not a bad idea- I personally get bored with doing the same set/reps- but it's fine- I wouldn't get to hung up on weights and % just keep driving foward- anything 4 x 6- 4x 8 will be okay- you won't see big gains on your lifts- but you'll keep yourself from getting weak then you can jump back into a strength cycle if you want.
I usually only change my diet -and tailor my plans to make the most of my diet- so if I'm bulking November to April- I'll do strength or size- and hammer the hell out of it to make whatever gains I can. - I round out- reverse diet and start a new program knowing I'm going to make NO strength or size gains while cutting- but use a periodization program deigned for powerlifters to try to keep my numbers up.
losing 5 pounds off a lift is acceptable- losing 25 is not- at least for me.
JoRocka, you pretty much summerized my plan. A little change after 4 months on the same routine may have some benefits both mental and physical ones. Progress is so tough to get, I would not accept to loose much. I just kept eating a lot for 9 months now and gained about 8-10lb and BF in the 20% zone. Just removing 2-3% would make me look a lot better now because there is some muscle under the skin now!
Maybe I should of read more before I posted that last post. Nothing wrong with cutting, but if you are going to cut, you shouldn't go to a program with more volume, you should go to a program with less volume. You have a lot less energy when you are cutting, so workouts get a lot harder, and if workouts were hard before, and you start eating less and adding volume, you should expect to start failing workouts. Also, it's very important to keep protein intake up during a cut, as it will help you keep more muscle. Protein also satiates you more than carbs or fats per calorie, so on a cut if you eat mainly protein you will feel more full than if you ate more carbs/fats.
heh- I was surprised you suggested that much volume- it was a lot for someone dropping calories.
I found I can JUST run Sheiko when I'm on a deficit without losing to much off the lifts- but it's tough. I had a much mentally more enjoyable time switching to a 2 x a week push pull program when I was training for a half and eating a slight deficit. It's just more manageable. But I don't like doing that so I don't.
I never FAILED lifts on Sheiko when I was cutting- never. mostly because its' only 9-10 weeks in do you hit 90-100% of your 1 rpm- the other 9-10 weeks you are at 60-80% which is managable on a deficit- it just took FORFUCKINGEVER (2 hrs was pretty normal for a lift) where as my friend can wack through it in about 75 minutes.
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Week #12 completed on Texas Method, 4 weeks remaining.
Now here is what happen to my press and bench: on weeks #7-8, I was pressing 5x5x110 on "volume day" and benching 5x5x165. This was the most I could handle back then. On "intensity day" my PRs were 1x6x125 and 1x1x145 for the press. For the bench, I did 1x5x180 and 1x1x205. 4 weeks later, "volume day" now means 5x5x117.5 for the press and 5x5x172.5 for the bench wich mean I can now handle 7.5lb more for 5 sets of 5. I suppose I got stronger overall but I cannot improve my PRs for a single set of 5 nor my 1RM on both lifts.
Texas Method brings me a 15lb improvement for both lifts on volume day and a 5lb improvement on intensity day over 12 weeks and I will stick for another 4 weeks before swithching on a summer bootcamp based on 4x8@80%
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I started 5/3/1 in mid February of 2016. I'm a beginner, so currently my PR1 is 272# for squat, 177# for benchpress, 282# for deadlift and 111# for mil. press. My medium term goal is to have my squat + bench + DL PR1 = 1000#. So far so good, linear growth for everything except mil press... I'm doing the "boring but big" sets afterwards, and occasionally a bit of assistance work (chins, dips, dumbbell raises). Good luck with your intermediate strength goals Le Barbu!
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I started 5/3/1 in mid February of 2016. I'm a beginner, so currently my PR1 is 272# for squat, 177# for benchpress, 282# for deadlift and 111# for mil. press. My medium term goal is to have my squat + bench + DL PR1 = 1000#. So far so good, linear growth for everything except mil press... I'm doing the "boring but big" sets afterwards, and occasionally a bit of assistance work (chins, dips, dumbbell raises). Good luck with your intermediate strength goals Le Barbu!
Interesting Filliteracy, I really improved my general strength with loaded chins/pull-ups. When my back feel painfull, I skip the deadlift or the power-clean and do 3 sets with a load so failure occurs at 8-10 reps. For the chins, this means 45lb and 35lb for the pull-ups. Back extentions are great to! I workout at home and dont have any facilities for dips but I'm sure it would help a lot.
Did you began with Starting Strength before 5/3/1 ? I was told that 5/3/1 was more like an intermediate to advanced program?
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I found I can JUST run Sheiko when I'm on a deficit without losing to much off the lifts- but it's tough. I had a much mentally more enjoyable time switching to a 2 x a week push pull program when I was training for a half and eating a slight deficit. It's just more manageable. But I don't like doing that so I don't.
I never FAILED lifts on Sheiko when I was cutting- never. mostly because its' only 9-10 weeks in do you hit 90-100% of your 1 rpm- the other 9-10 weeks you are at 60-80% which is managable on a deficit- it just took FORFUCKINGEVER (2 hrs was pretty normal for a lift) where as my friend can wack through it in about 75 minutes.
75 minutes for Sheiko... Maybe if I ran with 50% 1rm as my inputs?
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I found I can JUST run Sheiko when I'm on a deficit without losing to much off the lifts- but it's tough. I had a much mentally more enjoyable time switching to a 2 x a week push pull program when I was training for a half and eating a slight deficit. It's just more manageable. But I don't like doing that so I don't.
I never FAILED lifts on Sheiko when I was cutting- never. mostly because its' only 9-10 weeks in do you hit 90-100% of your 1 rpm- the other 9-10 weeks you are at 60-80% which is managable on a deficit- it just took FORFUCKINGEVER (2 hrs was pretty normal for a lift) where as my friend can wack through it in about 75 minutes.
75 minutes for Sheiko... Maybe if I ran with 50% 1rm as my inputs?
Yeah I was shocked when he said that- at my best I can do 90 minutes and even then I usually feel like I'm missing out on something and or doing cardio.
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I haven't been working out for a while but recently started, but my #s seem very odd and I don't know why
I can currently bench 160 max, but my max two handed bicep curl is 110, and 55 with each arm - which seems like very odd numbers. When I went to a gym in my 20s, I would see guys repping 225 + with bench, and then couldn't curl 40 with one arm. So I either have ridiculously strong arms, or a ridiculously weak chest, or I messed up somewhere along the way and I need to get it correct before I continue down the wrong path
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The bench press and curl use different muscles. If you can curl significantly more than you can bench the likely causes are:
- muscle imbalance caused by overuse of isolation exercises like curls (very common - compound lifts are more difficult than isolation exercises, so most people tend to overuse isolation exercises)
- improper technique (cheating) on the curl (this usually comes in the form of arching the back, jerky motion, yanking, etc.)
In the case of the latter, you need to fix your form before you hurt yourself. In the case of the former, you should completely drop curls from your workout regimen for several months (and possibly permanently). Replace them with stuff like pull ups and BB rows if you really feel the need. Focus on weighted dips, overhead press, push press, BB and DB bench press to get the rest of your upper body back into shape.
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I haven't been working out for a while but recently started, but my #s seem very odd and I don't know why
I can currently bench 160 max, but my max two handed bicep curl is 110, and 55 with each arm - which seems like very odd numbers. When I went to a gym in my 20s, I would see guys repping 225 + with bench, and then couldn't curl 40 with one arm. So I either have ridiculously strong arms, or a ridiculously weak chest, or I messed up somewhere along the way and I need to get it correct before I continue down the wrong path
I'm not sure how those things are comparable at all... as pointed out- they use totally different muscles.
And typically one arm is significantly stronger than another. that's not unusual.
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I started 5/3/1 in mid February of 2016. I'm a beginner, so currently my PR1 is 272# for squat, 177# for benchpress, 282# for deadlift and 111# for mil. press. My medium term goal is to have my squat + bench + DL PR1 = 1000#. So far so good, linear growth for everything except mil press... I'm doing the "boring but big" sets afterwards, and occasionally a bit of assistance work (chins, dips, dumbbell raises). Good luck with your intermediate strength goals Le Barbu!
Interesting Filliteracy, I really improved my general strength with loaded chins/pull-ups. When my back feel painfull, I skip the deadlift or the power-clean and do 3 sets with a load so failure occurs at 8-10 reps. For the chins, this means 45lb and 35lb for the pull-ups. Back extentions are great to! I workout at home and dont have any facilities for dips but I'm sure it would help a lot.
Did you began with Starting Strength before 5/3/1 ? I was told that 5/3/1 was more like an intermediate to advanced program?
I went straight into 5/3/1 skipping starting strength. I've been doing the occasional strength training (1 to 2, sometimes 3) times a week but with no true routine (just doing what I felt like doing at the weight I felt like doing) for the past 5ish years, sometimes not going for several weeks at a time, interspersed with forced military mainly cardio based workouts and a few years back, rock + ice climbing and now squash. So I would say that I am either a "high beginner" or a "low intermediate" and didn't feel the need to work up with starting strength.
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Week #12 completed on Texas Method, 4 weeks remaining.
Now here is what happen to my press and bench: on weeks #7-8, I was pressing 5x5x110 on "volume day" and benching 5x5x165. This was the most I could handle back then. On "intensity day" my PRs were 1x6x125 and 1x1x145 for the press. For the bench, I did 1x5x180 and 1x1x205. 4 weeks later, "volume day" now means 5x5x117.5 for the press and 5x5x172.5 for the bench wich mean I can now handle 7.5lb more for 5 sets of 5. I suppose I got stronger overall but I cannot improve my PRs for a single set of 5 nor my 1RM on both lifts.
Texas Method brings me a 15lb improvement for both lifts on volume day and a 5lb improvement on intensity day over 12 weeks and I will stick for another 4 weeks before swithching on a summer bootcamp based on 4x8@80%
Half way trougth week #14 now and I'm thinking -"Fuck it (the 4x8@80% plan), I just want to continue on TM" because I get stronger week after week! Even if my PRs are stalling on some lifts (bench, press) my overall strength is improving anyway. My volume day sets can handle more weight, I dont feel fatigue (like overtraining) and I recover very well. I may continue until I reach my goal to be at Intermediate level at bench and press...
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Week #12 completed on Texas Method, 4 weeks remaining.
Now here is what happen to my press and bench: on weeks #7-8, I was pressing 5x5x110 on "volume day" and benching 5x5x165. This was the most I could handle back then. On "intensity day" my PRs were 1x6x125 and 1x1x145 for the press. For the bench, I did 1x5x180 and 1x1x205. 4 weeks later, "volume day" now means 5x5x117.5 for the press and 5x5x172.5 for the bench wich mean I can now handle 7.5lb more for 5 sets of 5. I suppose I got stronger overall but I cannot improve my PRs for a single set of 5 nor my 1RM on both lifts.
Texas Method brings me a 15lb improvement for both lifts on volume day and a 5lb improvement on intensity day over 12 weeks and I will stick for another 4 weeks before swithching on a summer bootcamp based on 4x8@80%
Half way trougth week #14 now and I'm thinking -"Fuck it (the 4x8@80% plan), I just want to continue on TM" because I get stronger week after week! Even if my PRs are stalling on some lifts (bench, press) my overall strength is improving anyway. My volume day sets can handle more weight, I dont feel fatigue (like overtraining) and I recover very well. I may continue until I reach my goal to be at Intermediate level at bench and press...
Update: 4 weeks into a stretch of volume training. I actually do 4 sets of 8 @ 70-75% with 2 minutes pauses between sets. This is for press, bench, chin-ups and pull-ups. The squats are done @ 70% for 3 sets of 5 and the deadlift @ 85% for a single set of 5 once a week.
The weekly schedual remain about the same than usual and looks like this:
week A: monday, squats/bench/deadlift, wednesday, squat/press/chin-ups/back-extention, friday, squat/bench/power-clean
week B: monday, squats/press/deadlift, wednesday, squat/bench/pull-ups/back-extention, friday, squat/press/power-clean
BW keep increasing, 187 now (started at 175 last summer)
I feel like some minor problems (injuries/fatigue) are solving and I will be ready to go for Texas Method again this Fall. My load increases will be scheduled once a month instead of once a week because I am closer to my potential.
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I just found that with the lifts I suck the most (press and bench) my 5RM is not heavy enough to improve with 3-5 sets across. I cant handle more weight on the bar but I can do more sets per training day and still recover fine. Now, I schedule 6 sets of 5 reps across (instead of 5x5) on monday (volume day), 3x3 on wednesday (recovery day) and 6 sets of 3 reps (instead of 3x3) on friday (intensity day). I will just follow the TM again with this slight mode and see what happen!
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Update: third week into a customized TM (based on a lot more volume)
BW 185 (stable since 3 months)
Press 1RM 150 (target 155)
Bench 1RM 210 (target 225)
Deadlift 5RM 390
Squat (still recovering from knee injury) 3x5x240 every session 3x/week
For the press and the bench, I do 6 sets of 5 across @ 83% on monday, 3 sets of 5 across @ 80% on wednesday and 5 sets of 4 across @ 87% on friday. I will do this for 6 weeks then decrease weigth for 10% and increase intensity for 4-6 weeks
I am still confident to hit my targets for next spring!
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390 x 5 on your deadlifts is quite a respectable number. Kudos!
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390 x 5 on your deadlifts is quite a respectable number. Kudos!
Thanks GuitarStv!
I would say that the 1-4 reps were nearly perfect but the 5th was slow and exhausting. I will start using straps for DL heavy sets to avoid foreharm tendinosis down the road (because of the reverse grip)
I use to do the DL on monday (wednesday pull is chin-ups and friday pull is power clean) so I try for a new 5RM PB every 2-4 weeks when I feel for it. If not, I just do 5x340 or 5x360 wich is now "easy"
What do you think about increasing my press and bench volume (#sets)? The idea came to me after reading a Bill Starr arcticle about intuitive training.
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I'm cautious about increasing volume generally as my tendency is to overdo things and then realize my mistake afterwards. Arms are less of a concern for overtraining than legs though (it's just not as draining). Watch your form, as exhaustion leads to sloppiness, and that's where injuries tend to come in.
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I'm cautious about increasing volume generally as my tendency is to overdo things and then realize my mistake afterwards. Arms are less of a concern for overtraining than legs though (it's just not as draining). Watch your form, as exhaustion leads to sloppiness, and that's where injuries tend to come in.
Thank you for the hints. I am just 1 year into strength training so, advices from more experienced trainees are welcome. I am looking for breaking plateau and noticed I never feel like I trained the day before. Let see what happen!
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Today, I did 6 sets of 4 across at 132.5lb and shot that video
[attachment deleted by admin]
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I'm cautious about increasing volume generally as my tendency is to overdo things and then realize my mistake afterwards. Arms are less of a concern for overtraining than legs though (it's just not as draining). Watch your form, as exhaustion leads to sloppiness, and that's where injuries tend to come in.
Thank you for the hints. I am just 1 year into strength training so, advices from more experienced trainees are welcome. I am looking for breaking plateau and noticed I never feel like I trained the day before. Let see what happen!
You can increase volume relatively safely through a variety of programs, but definitely don't just start doing more sets/reps willy nilly. Upper body also tends to recover more quickly than lower body, and you can usually get away with more volume on benching/pressing. That said, as you get stronger at bench, be careful with OH press, as you can blow out a shoulder. Periodization is one example of programming that can bust plateaus, although that is a complicated subject I barely understand myself beyond a surface level.
A more straightforward approach is to use rated perceived exertion (RPE for short. Basically, rate how difficult the set was on a scale of 1-10) and work up to a top set (~9-9.5 RPE) with backoffs for each movement, alternating main movements with accessories. I am on a high volume program myself right now and I love it. Took a couple weeks for my body to adjust, but I am making a lot of progress at what I would say is a high intermediate level at this point (powerlifting: 235 bench, 405 squat, 545 deadlift). Here is a generalized version of my current 8 week program, after which I am pretty confident I will put 10-30 pounds on each lift based on how things are going:
Day 1
Max effort squat (2-5 reps, varying each week) to a 9-9.5/10 RPE
-5% backoffs from top set weight, as many sets as I can until I reach a 9-9.5 again. I put a hard stop at 20 minutes if I'm not fatigued enough by then.
Accessory deadlift (e.g. deficit, paused, etc.) 5-10 reps
-10% backoffs from top set, same scheme as above
1 or 2 dumbell accessory movements (e.g. split squats & rows)
Day 2
Max effort bench, similar to above
Accessory bench 1 (e.g. close grip)
Accessory bench 2 (e.g. wide grip)
Tricep accessories (3-4 sets of 12-15)
Day 3
Accessory squat (e.g. safety squat bar, paused high bar, etc.)
-10% backoffs
Max effort deadlift
-5% backoffs
DB accessories (e.g. rows)
Day 4
Accessory bench (right now I'm using a duffalo/buffalo bar cycling between legs up wide grip, close grip, and regular wide grip)
-10% backoffs
Alternating weeks DB overhead press and flat DB press (8-10 reps @9-9.5 RPE. Backoffs at the same weight, but lifting to failure each set)
Various upper body accessories
I really like this approach. Tons of volume but all feel based so once your body adapts there is no real danger of injury as long as you are disciplined and have good form. Burnout might eventually be a problem, but hopefully not for a while as long as I deload/eat/sleep properly.
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Today was volume day at bench and I did 6 sets of 5 with 177.5lb
Tried deadlifting with straps for the first time (last warm up set and work set) and I understood why you should not use them all the time. Last set was 360 but felt like 130 for the hands. I also tried hook grip for the warm up sets. I will use all of the grip and straps in different situations.
Everything is fine now except for a little pop in the rigth knee wich I diagnosed myself as a inflamated plica (medial to the knee cap) now, I just RICE it to recover.
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Today, I did press 6 sets of 5 reps @ 130# and plan to do 6 sets of 4 @ 135# on friday
My plan to do more sets (5 or 6 instead of 3) finaly pays off!
My ultimate goal at press would be to lift my own bw. Meanwhile, 160# would be great
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Today, I did press 6 sets of 5 reps @ 130# and plan to do 6 sets of 4 @ 135# on friday
My plan to do more sets (5 or 6 instead of 3) finaly pays off!
My ultimate goal at press would be to lift my own bw. Meanwhile, 160# would be great
Did 6 sets of 4 reps @ 135# today wich is my best up to now. This brings my 1RM estimate in the 155# zone. This also means I am now intermediate for the press, my bench is the only lift lagging for the intermediate mark.
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Today, I did 6 sets of 4 reps @ 187.5# on the bench. This is a great session for me and it didnt felt so tougth. I eat more protein theese days and recover very well. No fatigue seems to build up. I will skim my linear progression for another few weeks then decrease volume while increasing weigths.
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Congrats guys/gals! I used to be into Starting strength, oly lifting, westside, and whatnot. These days I just do bodyweight. Keep up the good work.
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Congrats guys/gals! I used to be into Starting strength, oly lifting, westside, and whatnot. These days I just do bodyweight. Keep up the good work.
Thank you dcamnc! I will keep you updated t'ill my goal is reached
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Today, I did 6 sets of 4 reps @ 187.5# on the bench. This is a great session for me and it didnt felt so tougth. I eat more protein theese days and recover very well. No fatigue seems to build up. I will skim my linear progression for another few weeks then decrease volume while increasing weigths.
Today was the end of my volume stretch. I did 6 sets of 4 reps @ 190 on the bench. Now, I switch for a 4 weeks intensity (more weigth, less reps) for new PB at press and bench. Lets see the outcome!
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New Deadlift PB with a set of 5 @ 395pounds :)
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Yesterday, bench press @ 195 for 6 sets of 3 reps! I am now ready for a new PB in 2 weeks!
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New Deadlift PB with a set of 5 @ 395pounds :)
New deadlift PB with a set of 5 @ 400 pounds :)
Friday, I am supposed to hit a new bench PB
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New Deadlift PB with a set of 5 @ 395pounds :)
New deadlift PB with a set of 5 @ 400 pounds :)
Friday, I am supposed to hit a new bench PB
Good job!
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I'll join the fun.
First learned how to lift 5 years ago in high school. I've been on and off with lifting over the years due to various sports related injuries and periods where I lacked commitment. Long story short, I was sick of being weak and decided to set a goal for myself this year. Currently working on getting stronger and if I can drop my body fat percentage, that would be a bonus too. Due to a hectic life with engineering school, engineering internships, engineering club activities, and girlfriend, I certainly don't sleep as much as I need to sometimes. I'd say my diet is generally good but some days I just forget to eat if I'm working on homework all day.
I'm currently doing Stronglifts 5x5. I'm not sure if it's the best, but I definitely like it better than the isolation days I used to do that left me super sore for days. Now I squat three times a week with minimal soreness.
I don't know my 1 rep maxes because I never really max out. My current progress in the program is below. Some things like OH press and bench are progressing slowly. On the other hand, deadlifts and barbell have yet to have a failed rep and still seem really easy.
Bodyweight: 180 lbs
Squat: 5x5 @ 265 lbs
Deadlift: 3x5 @ 260 lbs
OH press: 5x5 105 lbs
Bench Press: 5x5 175 lbs
Barbell Row: 5x5 135 lbs
My goal is to hit 315 on squat and deadlift, 135 on OH press, 225 on bench, and whatever a good barbell row amount is. Then I'll probably switch to another program. I'm hoping to have more time to sleep next semester so I can make better progress.
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I'll join the fun.
First learned how to lift 5 years ago in high school. I've been on and off with lifting over the years due to various sports related injuries and periods where I lacked commitment. Long story short, I was sick of being weak and decided to set a goal for myself this year. Currently working on getting stronger and if I can drop my body fat percentage, that would be a bonus too. Due to a hectic life with engineering school, engineering internships, engineering club activities, and girlfriend, I certainly don't sleep as much as I need to sometimes. I'd say my diet is generally good but some days I just forget to eat if I'm working on homework all day.
I'm currently doing Stronglifts 5x5. I'm not sure if it's the best, but I definitely like it better than the isolation days I used to do that left me super sore for days. Now I squat three times a week with minimal soreness.
I don't know my 1 rep maxes because I never really max out. My current progress in the program is below. Some things like OH press and bench are progressing slowly. On the other hand, deadlifts and barbell have yet to have a failed rep and still seem really easy.
Bodyweight: 180 lbs
Squat: 5x5 @ 265 lbs
Deadlift: 3x5 @ 260 lbs
OH press: 5x5 105 lbs
Bench Press: 5x5 175 lbs
Barbell Row: 5x5 135 lbs
My goal is to hit 315 on squat and deadlift, 135 on OH press, 225 on bench, and whatever a good barbell row amount is. Then I'll probably switch to another program. I'm hoping to have more time to sleep next semester so I can make better progress.
Welcome HydroJim!
Stronglifts 5x5 is probably a good program, for a beginner (as most of us are) many programs works.
Practice good form, add weigth to the bar, eat well and try to sleep!
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My best set for each lift and my ranking % compared to other lifters on Strengthlevel.com
I compare myself to other male lifters, adjusted for age and weigth.
Deadlift 1x5 @ 405 (89%)
Squat 5x5 @ 300 (72%)
Bench 6x3 @ 200 (46%)
Press 6x142.5 (53%)
The Intermediate level I aimed for when I first created this thread means I want end to hit 50% for each of these lift. Now, I deal with a painful shoulder but still think I will be able to recover and improve my bench to the 50% mark for next spring.
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My best set for each lift and my ranking % compared to other lifters on Strengthlevel.com
I compare myself to other male lifters, adjusted for age and weigth.
Deadlift 1x5 @ 405 (89%)
Squat 5x5 @ 300 (72%)
Bench 6x3 @ 200 (46%)
Press 6x142.5 (53%)
The Intermediate level I aimed for when I first created this thread means I want end to hit 50% for each of these lift. Now, I deal with a painful shoulder but still think I will be able to recover and improve my bench to the 50% mark for next spring.
Cool site.
91% for bench
97% for deadlift
91% for squat
Not sure how accurate that is, but I'll take it lol.
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My best set for each lift and my ranking % compared to other lifters on Strengthlevel.com
I compare myself to other male lifters, adjusted for age and weigth.
Deadlift 1x5 @ 405 (89%)
Squat 5x5 @ 300 (72%)
Bench 6x3 @ 200 (46%)
Press 6x142.5 (53%)
The Intermediate level I aimed for when I first created this thread means I want end to hit 50% for each of these lift. Now, I deal with a painful shoulder but still think I will be able to recover and improve my bench to the 50% mark for next spring.
Cool site.
91% for bench
97% for deadlift
91% for squat
Not sure how accurate that is, but I'll take it lol.
Men, that's impresive numbers! Accuracy is probably better in the mi-range. Do you weigth train for a while?
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While my press and bench are both staled actualy, I hit new PB at squat and deadlift.
On tuesday, I deadlifted 410x5 and today, squated 325 for 5
After 18 months of heavy weigth training, I recover a lot faster than the first 6-12 months.
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Deadlifted 415 for a set of 5 yesterday for a new PB!
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Deadlifted 415 for a set of 5 yesterday for a new PB!
Good job! Four plates and a 5 pounder on each side.
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Update
I decided to reset my numbers again, to improve form (squat and deadlift) and recover from a supraspinatus partial tear (press and bench). I am still confident to recover 100% from this injury in few weeks. This week training look like this:
Monday
Squat 275x5 for 3 sets
Deadlift 320x5, 345x5, 370x5, 395x5
Bench press 135x10 for 3 sets (pain level 4/10)
Thursday
Squat 265x5 for 5 sets
Press 80x0 for 3 sets (pain level 2/10)
Pull-up BWx10 for 3 sets
BW is 191.5 today for a new PB (same cloths fits even with 16.5# more on the frame)
Now I train only 2x/week and began running 1 mile few times/week. My first test ended with a 7:00 mile and I will test once a month. Pretty confident to hit the 6:00 mark by the end of the year. I choose 1 mile for many reasons. It's about the longest distance I could have to run in real life situation. It does not wear to much any part of the body. I do not want to hit my recovery etc.
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Today, I reached my 2yo goal to be at Intermediate Strength level!!!
BW 190#
Bench press 190# for 3 sets of 6. According to the Strength Level application, I am now at 51% across the lifters of my weigth and age.
Thank you to everyone here who helped me in any way!
I still aim to get stronger than I am now
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Congrats! Keep at it!
I turn 50 next month, and I benched 295 for 11 reps my last chest workout. Adding little amounts of weights add up over the years.
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Thank you mate, I doubt I can hit that kind of # but who know?
Seriously, if I can someday bench 295 for 1 honest rep, that would be fantastic!
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Congrats! Keep at it!
I turn 50 next month, and I benched 295 for 11 reps my last chest workout. Adding little amounts of weights add up over the years.
U natty brah?