Author Topic: Give Up the Hooch: Booze Free for as long as you please!  (Read 311525 times)

Metalcat

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Re: Give Up the Hooch: Booze Free for as long as you please!
« Reply #750 on: January 24, 2021, 10:53:29 AM »
Haven't had anything since New Years. Sad (but not surprised) that I'm not feeling any benefits. Happy to report that even though I'm still regularly fixing DH drinks, I don't really crave one.

I do miss having something with a yummy flavor at the end of the day. Had too much ice cream the first week and tried Kombucha last week and it didn't do much for me.

I got really into high end herbal teas

Any recs? I've got a cabinet full of traditional medicinal and  tazo brand - but I tend to drink those daily.  I'm not sure what counts as "fancy" herbal tea.

Also- do y'all know if a dash or two of bitters works like regular alcohol in your body? I have lots of wonderful bitters and I was thinking I could add them to club soda. But I know they are technically alcoholic so didn't know if that would undo any good I was doing.

I don't think a few drops will have any effect.

As for teas, I happen to live near a really high end tea house where the owner travels the world forging relationships with small independent tea farmers. He's often their only client.

So I can't make any brand recommendations or anything. I just go to this particular tea house and get phenomenal blends of rooibos and Tulsi, etc, which make regular bag tea taste like dirty, dusty sock water.

I never liked tea until I found this store.

I will also drink some trashy David's tea, it's tasty as hell, but compared to high end tea, it's like eating really good chicken wings at a pub vs fine dining.

Do you have any artisanal tea shops around you? If not, I have no idea what to recommend. It's a fluke I found my place. If they ever close, I'm fucked.

BikeFanatic

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Re: Give Up the Hooch: Booze Free for as long as you please!
« Reply #751 on: January 24, 2021, 10:55:44 AM »
RE the bitters, I think it may depend on you, some people avoid any alcohol including non alcoholic beers, I personally  indulge in the craft non alcohol beers and have managed to be alcohol free for 17 months. I think it may take an honest evaluation of your desire to drink, are you looking to drink again? are you close to a relapse?

I am interested in  trying the bitters, with my selzer,  where did you get them from?

Fancy teas I use are the fruit teas right before bed, and I had some amazing fruit teas from Starbucks. They feel fancy and I feel they signal me to wind it down and stop eating and drinking.
Good Luck.

StarBright

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Re: Give Up the Hooch: Booze Free for as long as you please!
« Reply #752 on: January 24, 2021, 11:09:23 AM »
RE the bitters, I think it may depend on you, some people avoid any alcohol including non alcoholic beers, I personally  indulge in the craft non alcohol beers and have managed to be alcohol free for 17 months. I think it may take an honest evaluation of your desire to drink, are you looking to drink again? are you close to a relapse?

I am interested in  trying the bitters, with my selzer,  where did you get them from?

Fancy teas I use are the fruit teas right before bed, and I had some amazing fruit teas from Starbucks. They feel fancy and I feel they signal me to wind it down and stop eating and drinking.
Good Luck.

I received a set of bittercube bitters for Christmas last year and they are wonderful! The cherry bark vanilla is my favorite but there are also ginger, grapefruit and orange flavors that I thought would be a nice addition to club soda. I prefer dry-ish and citrusy cocktails so replacing w/ something sweet hasn't been helpful.

I did buy some Pelligrino bitter lemon and that hit the spot 100% but it is also pricey. So I was thinking using my existing bitters w/ club soda might be cheaper.

Cassie

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Re: Give Up the Hooch: Booze Free for as long as you please!
« Reply #753 on: January 24, 2021, 12:18:50 PM »
That sounds good star bright. I love the AF beers but some people won’t drink them. I love flavored sparkling water.

mspym

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Re: Give Up the Hooch: Booze Free for as long as you please!
« Reply #754 on: January 24, 2021, 02:23:58 PM »
I am fine with bitters, vanilla essence and NA beer (when I can find a good one - which is seldom) but they don't trigger any relapse urge in me. Some people avoid them because they are problematic *for them*. So it's hard to give you a sign-off because it really is up to you and your relationship with booze.

I do second finding a good artisan tea shop. Good tea is delicious and even though it's pricy, it's still cheaper than beer in my town.

Cassie

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Re: Give Up the Hooch: Booze Free for as long as you please!
« Reply #755 on: January 24, 2021, 03:15:09 PM »
I also enjoy ghiradelli’s double hot chocolate.

Stubblestache

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Re: Give Up the Hooch: Booze Free for as long as you please!
« Reply #756 on: January 26, 2021, 05:50:59 AM »
Another vote here for fancy herbal teas! In the UK we have Pukka teas, absolutely love them.

Metalcat

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Re: Give Up the Hooch: Booze Free for as long as you please!
« Reply #757 on: January 26, 2021, 06:32:25 AM »
So last year, about a month into quitting, I did Annie Grace's drinking experiment. The one where she purposely got drunk after quitting and filmed herself, to prove to herself that it was total shit.

I did it because after reading This Naked Mind and Allen Carr's Easy Way, my mind just couldn't accept the concept that alcohol tasted terrible and was no fun. I couldn't do it, my memory told me otherwise. I had the exact same cognitive dissonance that Annie did. I needed to prove it to myself.

So I purposely got drunk on most of a bottle of wine while doing absolutely nothing. I was bored out of my mind and hated every second of it, and like magic, the wine that I had loved tasted like gasoline. It was horrible. I despised the sensation of getting tipsy and then drunk as well, but I didn't bother filming myself.

That pretty much sealed the deal for me. Any time a craving came up, I just had to remind myself that the last time I drank, it was objectively an awful experience.

I then reread both books from a totally different perspective and felt quite certain that I was done with alcohol.

Annie said at one point in some video that she knows people who do the experiment every year to keep that memory fresh. I decided last year that I would do that. Every January, I would buy a bottle of wine, get drunk while doing nothing, and film myself.

Well, I did, and it was HORRIBLE.
Leading up to it I was so nervous that I might enjoy it, that I might miss it, that it might trigger new cravings, etc.
NOPE. What a miserable experience and I definitely do not look forward to doing that again in a year.

First, the taste is truly, truly vile. I could barely choke it down without a grimace. I was drinking out of this tiny glass, like a child's juice glass, and it took a solid 45 minutes to get through the first one.

My mouth felt disgusting. Like, you can really feel the direct damage to the delicate tissues of the mouth. No wonder it's such a powerful oral cancer carcinogen.

The other thing I could feel, which caught me off guard, was the depressant effect. I took about a half dozen videos and in them I kept saying "I feel so sad". I don't think I ever noticed before how it actively made me feel so very, very sad. I wasn't sad about anything, I had had a great day, was looking forward to a great week, and generally feeling like life is very good. But fuck, I felt SO SAD.

It turns out this "sad" feeling is what always drove me to get obnoxiously philosophical when I used to drink. I'm obnoxiously philosophical on a cheerful, sunny afternoon; the world does not need any more of that from me, especially not the stupid drunk version.

Wow it made me dumb. Wow.

So I was sad, philosophical, and dumb.
For those following along at home, that's a fucking tragic combo.

Extra bonus? I broke my front tooth before this. Not a big deal, it's a porcelain veneer from when I broke my tooth in a basketball game in the 90s. It's just really old and part of it broke off, so I look particularly fetching at the moment. All of my videos were done with the ever flattering front-facing camera on my phone too. So watching the already embarssing videos was soooooooooooooooooo flattering. So flattering. I didn't at all watch them cringing through my fingers covering my eyes. Not at all.../sarcasm

ANYHOO!

I barely made it through a half bottle of Pinot noir. I actually snapped after a few hours and poured the other half down the sink so that I wouldn't have to drink anymore because it was so unpleasant and awful, and my stomach was already in revolt. My goal had been to get distinctly drunk, and I failed because I couldn't bring myself to do it. I was just at the notably buzzed stage, and it was horrid.

Because I was barely drunk, I didn't wake up with any real degree of hangover, just a slight increase to my ever present headache, and a little more fatigue than normal. Last year when I did this I woke up feeling like death and had to go to work. That sucked. I'll never forget how much I hated that.

Last year the cravings the next day were brutal. Even though I had hated it, I guess the habit was so recent and the cravings were still so strong that it lit them right up. This time, zero cravings. I can't even think about wine without my stomach turning a bit.

So yeah, I plan on doing this awful, awful thing to myself once a year. If I ever get to a point that I never have stupid cravings for something I know I don't want, I'll stop doing this. Until then, I'll always have a relatively recent experience to think back to every time my brain conjures up a lovely image of sipping delicious merlot by the beach, or some other fucking nonsense.

TLDR: I made myself drink (for science!) and it sucked donkey balls, and being sad, philosophical, and dumb is a hideously embarrassing combination. Also, wine tastes like cancerous death.

regenaeb

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Re: Give Up the Hooch: Booze Free for as long as you please!
« Reply #758 on: January 26, 2021, 08:32:53 AM »
Wow Malcat, I think I should never try this experiment, I can only imagine how terrible I sound and act when I am truly drunk, to watch it would also be horrifying. But I applaude you for having the courage to do it.

I haven't had anything to drink since Christmas day. Back on the last day of June, I cut way back on my drinking. I was only drinking on the weekends and just 1 glass of wine, two at the most and not every weekend. The holidays were really a depressing time for me since we could not get home to visit our family (we are a military family stationed out of state). Covid was tolerable for me for the first 6 months. Once we got into the fall and early winter the extrovert in me has been going a little flaky. I love my husband and kids, but not seeing people and talking to other people is a lot for me. So Christmas day I indulged a little too much when I was cooking all day. The good thing is I didn't start until my dinner was almost done cooking so the majority of my drinking was happening while eating and after I finished my meal. Because of that I didn't feel as bad as I really should have the next day. I dumped the little bit of the wine that was left the next day and haven't had the desire to open another bottle since. Even New Years Eve, I had no desire to drink, probably because I was at home with my kids and husband and none of them drink (my kids are only 12). I have never really been a person to drink by myself. I mostly drink with friends/neighbors while hanging out.

I really don't expect the desire to drink again until we head back to FL to visit family in late April, and even then I plan on keeping it very low in consumption. I was watching a TV show last night and there was this women puking from over drinking and I thought to myself, good Lord, I don't ever want to experience that again in my life. It was a regular occasion for me pre-Covid when I would hang out with my neighbors every weekend. Now that we have moved away and I haven't met any new neighbors/friends here so far, the desire is just not there.

Cassie

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Re: Give Up the Hooch: Booze Free for as long as you please!
« Reply #759 on: January 26, 2021, 09:01:06 AM »
Malcat, that sounds awful. If I drank wine I would feel the same. However, I love the taste of beer so would be hooked again if I drank that. I am 6 months AF and love AF beer and that doesn’t trigger cravings. I haven’t had a craving in months. Since I quit drinking in my 20’s and didn’t start again until I met my third husband and he convinced me that I had no issues. I was close to 50. It took me 15 years to decide to quit.  I don’t need to do the experiment to know that I am much better without the poison. I feel so lucky that I don’t have cravings or struggle like some people.  I happily have my hot chocolate and 2 squares of ghiradelli chocolate every night. I don’t want to stimulate my neuro-pathways again. It’s interesting how differently we all do this.

jps

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Re: Give Up the Hooch: Booze Free for as long as you please!
« Reply #760 on: January 26, 2021, 09:28:57 AM »
Malcat, thank you for your annual contribution to science. Good science that holds up is peer reviewed and repeated many times, yeah? Well, I guess your experience sounds about right. Consider yourself peer reviewed! You'll have to find someone else to do the repeating though. Thanks for sharing your terrible experience with us :)

Metalcat

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Re: Give Up the Hooch: Booze Free for as long as you please!
« Reply #761 on: January 26, 2021, 11:07:22 AM »
Malcat, thank you for your annual contribution to science. Good science that holds up is peer reviewed and repeated many times, yeah? Well, I guess your experience sounds about right. Consider yourself peer reviewed! You'll have to find someone else to do the repeating though. Thanks for sharing your terrible experience with us :)

Tune in this time next year for the next iteration!
That is, if I can hold myself to it. It really was awful.

I partially do it because I find it fascinating. I LOVED wine. I may not have been a heavy drinker, but that was only because of my legendary level of discipline and fear of alcoholism, but damn did I ever love it.

To now find it utterly repulsive and intolerable is fucking fascinating. Mind bloody blowing.

I still get powerful cravings, which is super annoying. I have precisely no interest in drinking, but as much as I am disciplined, I am also someone who develops very strong patterns, so they tend to stay entrenched for a long time. That's actually why I have to be so disciplined, because habits stick in my brain.

I don't get cravings often now, but when I do, they're not weak. I get vivid imagery of how much I used to luxuriate in good wine during a dinner out, or on a Friday night after a long week. I get a strong message of "but you loved this". So a recent memory that no, no I don't, is a nice thing to depend on when, especially around my wine connoisseur family.

mspym

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Re: Give Up the Hooch: Booze Free for as long as you please!
« Reply #762 on: January 26, 2021, 01:25:43 PM »
I am not planning on drinking again, even for science. It all smells like poison and I have no desire to drink it. The beer my husband makes still smells 'good' but it's mostly the hops smell that I am enjoying. I still get a bit anxious, but not anywhere near the level of anxiety that I used to have when drinking. I appreciated the naltrexone experiment but it made it clear that drinking booze was a life stage that I am done with now.

BikeFanatic

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Re: Give Up the Hooch: Booze Free for as long as you please!
« Reply #763 on: January 26, 2021, 01:41:35 PM »
Thank you fro the experiment Malcat!
 I would maybe try that only if I took Naltrexone, I do not want to become re addicted.
I have hopefully fully moved on from drinking, I want to be healthy and alcohol is a detriment to that.
Like Msym  above, Naltrexone helped me see that I was so over drinking.
I do substitute a bit, with high quality chocolate, and the craft non alcohol beers ( athletic brewing), but it is easier to wean off chocolate than alcohol. One year and five months alcohol free currently.

jps

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Re: Give Up the Hooch: Booze Free for as long as you please!
« Reply #764 on: January 31, 2021, 05:18:51 PM »
Today is the last day of Dry January for many. When I first decided to take a break from alcohol I wasn't exactly sure if I would do just the month of Jan or an entire year. Now that the end of the month is upon us I am all in for a whole year, and excited to see it through. I have more or less been working through The Alcohol Experiment, which I have found to be.... interesting? Not the most compelling thing I have ever experienced but feel like it has done a good job of helping me examine assumptions like "Alcohol is fun to drink" and "Alcohol is not detrimental to your health". I will probably read Alan Carr's book this year since others have mentioned enjoying it perhaps more than the Annie Grace stuff.

I haven't really felt any benefits this month from abstaining, other than Not Feeling Icky and Bloated When I Drink. That seems to be more enough. I just feel, like, normal? It reminds me of when I was a teen/early college before I started drinking.  My mind has an equilibrium, and every day is relatively consistently enjoyable. No weight loss, no improved sleep (though I have stopped getting up in the middle of the night to go to the bathroom which is nice), no clearer skin, or anything else like that. But I feel Normal, which is something gained that I did not always feel before. Here's to the rest of the year.

BikeFanatic

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Re: Give Up the Hooch: Booze Free for as long as you please!
« Reply #765 on: January 31, 2021, 05:26:48 PM »
congratulation JPS, I experienced  a bump in energy at six weeks and again at 3 months.  Hope you to experience that. I also liked porters book " alcohol explained " very good info and he maybe on youtube  as well.

SotI

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Re: Give Up the Hooch: Booze Free for as long as you please!
« Reply #766 on: January 31, 2021, 11:02:06 PM »
I haven't had a drink (apart from one birthday-related toasts) since November, but this month I had a couple of moments of temptation. Typically related to certain foods that I seem to associate with wine.
May well be the effect that Malcat was describing.

I guess it will be interesting in summertime when there is much more "social drinking" conditioning coming up.

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Re: Give Up the Hooch: Booze Free for as long as you please!
« Reply #767 on: February 01, 2021, 04:57:27 PM »
I've made a deliberate effort to significantly reduce wine consumption this month, drinking only on three instances for specific planned occasions and not just to have a drink for the sake of relaxing or to end my day.  Last night I was with two people of out my 4 person covid bubble and decided I'd have one small glass of wine with dinner.  I took two sips of the wine, didn't care for it (and trust me I generally love my wine!), immediately felt flushed and didn't drink any more.  I felt flushed the rest of the evening, as if I was having a hot flash, and had difficulty sleeping.  I believe this was all from the two sips of wine.  It certainly has me questioning my body's reaction to the wine and whether this is a strong sign I should just plan to stay away from it for the long term.

Cassie

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Re: Give Up the Hooch: Booze Free for as long as you please!
« Reply #768 on: February 01, 2021, 06:43:46 PM »
It’s interesting how if you don’t drink in awhile when you do it tastes bad.

Morning Glory

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Re: Give Up the Hooch: Booze Free for as long as you please!
« Reply #769 on: February 02, 2021, 06:54:36 AM »
It’s interesting how if you don’t drink in awhile when you do it tastes bad.

That doesn't happen for me. Wine still tasted good after 30 days when I had a couple glasses Sunday night. I plan to reduce my consumption though. I put the wine back in the pantry so I'm not tempted by looking at it in the evening.

Metalcat

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Re: Give Up the Hooch: Booze Free for as long as you please!
« Reply #770 on: February 02, 2021, 06:55:56 AM »
It’s interesting how if you don’t drink in awhile when you do it tastes bad.

Apparently for some, but not for others.

I think for me, a big part of it is that I never actually acquired a taste for alcohol. I *hated* hard liquor of any kind, and couldn't even stand strong beers. I really only fully acquired a taste for wine, and that's because I really, really worked at it in my late teens because both mine and my boyfriend's families were wine snobs and pressured me into appreciating it.

That's why I thought I had no addiction to alcohol, because I generally wouldn't touch hard liquor if there was no wine. I would, for the most part, rather go without.

Hard liquor pretty much always made me sick as well. My system is actually super sensitive to alcohol and it didn't take much for me to end up puking after a night out just borderline heavy drinking, even if I just mixed red and white wine, and sometimes even if I just mixed reds. I would be violently ill for the entire night.

That's another reason I never thought I was addicted, because I naturally moderated so I wouldn't get sick.

So I pretty much only craved red wine, and rarely drank a lot of it, so I thought I wasn't addicted and had a relatively "healthy" relationship with alcohol.

Nope. I now understand that I was fully addicted, my addiction just had serious limitations, so I'm lucky it never got bad. I think those limitations are what made it so easy to perceive the real taste of alcohol again. Because I had never fully acquired the taste for it in the first place, and my body has a real visceral negative response to it, it was so easy to lose my taste for wine.

It truly was torture the other night when I did my experiment. My body DOES NOT like alcohol. That much is VERY clear.

DH on the other hand, has done several long stretches of sobriety with me, and even when he's not abstaining, it's very rare that he drinks, but he still has his taste for all alcohol. It's strange how differently we responded.

All that said, it's actually not unusually to lose acquired tastes over time with lack of exposure. If I don't eat eggplant for a long time, I completely lose my taste for it. Same with blue cheese.

StarBright

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Re: Give Up the Hooch: Booze Free for as long as you please!
« Reply #771 on: February 02, 2021, 07:35:34 AM »
It’s interesting how if you don’t drink in awhile when you do it tastes bad.

That doesn't happen for me. Wine still tasted good after 30 days when I had a couple glasses Sunday night. I plan to reduce my consumption though. I put the wine back in the pantry so I'm not tempted by looking at it in the evening.

Ditto. I took a tasting sip of a cocktail I made for my husband the other night to make sure I had the balance right and it was still delicious.

I feel like continuing to be the mixologist in our house has been interesting. I feel thankful that I have not craved a drink, but I'm sort of waiting for the craving to hit.

Cassie

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Re: Give Up the Hooch: Booze Free for as long as you please!
« Reply #772 on: February 02, 2021, 09:17:48 AM »
That’s interesting you guys. Because it’s mine and my friends experiences I thought it was that way for everyone.

MayDay

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Re: Give Up the Hooch: Booze Free for as long as you please!
« Reply #773 on: February 03, 2021, 09:29:37 AM »
January is over and we didn't drink at all. I had a few cravings at the times we would sometimes drink but no big deal.

We decided to continue in Feb.

No difference in how I feel, sleep, etc. No weight loss.

Stubblestache

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Re: Give Up the Hooch: Booze Free for as long as you please!
« Reply #774 on: February 04, 2021, 02:37:32 AM »
heading into feb without booze and suffering a bit if I'm honest. I've read about something called post actute withdrawal syndrome and that feels like what's going on.
It feels like a hangover only without having drunk and has lasted about a week now. very bloody unfair!

BikeFanatic

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Re: Give Up the Hooch: Booze Free for as long as you please!
« Reply #775 on: February 04, 2021, 06:36:42 AM »
@Stubblestache,
There is a guy on you tube "fit recovery" and he recomends suppliments to get you through the rough period. He describes the same feeling that you do,  and said this hampered his recovery ( because  he thought if he drank he would feel better) Anyway see this video and maybe he can help you get through this tough time.

I also didnt feel great initially and when I felt the need to drink, in order to feel better,  I reached for chocolate and or ice cream. What ever you have to do. It took a while for me to wean off the junk food and longer to loose the belly! Take care and you can do it! It isnt easy but it is worth it. You will feel better.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bZefddjb1E

Metalcat

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Re: Give Up the Hooch: Booze Free for as long as you please!
« Reply #776 on: February 04, 2021, 07:00:38 AM »
heading into feb without booze and suffering a bit if I'm honest. I've read about something called post actute withdrawal syndrome and that feels like what's going on.
It feels like a hangover only without having drunk and has lasted about a week now. very bloody unfair!

I have no idea if you're male or female, but I've read research that it can be quite a bit worse and go on quite a bit longer for women.

I know it did for me, and that's a huge motivator to never have to go through it again.

It's the same with quitting coffee, the process was so unpleasant, whenever I think of grabbing a coffee here or there I'm like "fuck no" because quitting was so awful.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2021, 06:01:30 PM by Malcat »

TrMama

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Re: Give Up the Hooch: Booze Free for as long as you please!
« Reply #777 on: February 04, 2021, 02:30:33 PM »
Sober Person Problem: I may have been blacklisted from the local liquor store. Not because of any booze related behaviour, but because we're packing up MIL's estate and I've been using the store as a source of free boxes. I think they've caught on that I never buy anything . . .

Stubblestache

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Re: Give Up the Hooch: Booze Free for as long as you please!
« Reply #778 on: February 09, 2021, 06:33:20 AM »
@Stubblestache,
There is a guy on you tube "fit recovery" and he recomends suppliments to get you through the rough period. He describes the same feeling that you do,  and said this hampered his recovery ( because  he thought if he drank he would feel better) Anyway see this video and maybe he can help you get through this tough time.

I also didnt feel great initially and when I felt the need to drink, in order to feel better,  I reached for chocolate and or ice cream. What ever you have to do. It took a while for me to wean off the junk food and longer to loose the belly! Take care and you can do it! It isnt easy but it is worth it. You will feel better.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bZefddjb1E

Thanks mate. I take a few of these anyway. It's worn off some now and I'm feeling pretty positive. Looking around various sobriety forums it seems to be a normal thing if you were a heavy drinker. One month and nine days in and going strong.

MustachioedPistachio

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Re: Give Up the Hooch: Booze Free for as long as you please!
« Reply #779 on: February 09, 2021, 12:05:22 PM »
Two months! :D

BikeFanatic

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Re: Give Up the Hooch: Booze Free for as long as you please!
« Reply #780 on: February 09, 2021, 12:08:17 PM »
Great work MP and Stubble!

Stubblestache

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Re: Give Up the Hooch: Booze Free for as long as you please!
« Reply #781 on: February 15, 2021, 12:09:49 PM »
Two months! :D

well done! I'm one month 15 days and going strong. Chaining sobriety podcasts and reading This Naked Mind at the moment.

If anyone has any good podcasts, let me know.

Metalcat

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Re: Give Up the Hooch: Booze Free for as long as you please!
« Reply #782 on: February 15, 2021, 12:18:22 PM »
Two months! :D

well done! I'm one month 15 days and going strong. Chaining sobriety podcasts and reading This Naked Mind at the moment.

If anyone has any good podcasts, let me know.

I personally never found any podcasts that resonated with me, but I have a hard time enjoying podcasts period.

I know there are a ton out there, but they range so much in terms of content depending on the personal perspective of the podcaster. For example, many of the podcasters were parents, so those aspects of sobriety really lost me 'cuz I DGAF about some stranger's parenting woes.

Stubblestache

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Re: Give Up the Hooch: Booze Free for as long as you please!
« Reply #783 on: February 15, 2021, 12:58:14 PM »
Two months! :D

well done! I'm one month 15 days and going strong. Chaining sobriety podcasts and reading This Naked Mind at the moment.

If anyone has any good podcasts, let me know.

I personally never found any podcasts that resonated with me, but I have a hard time enjoying podcasts period.

I know there are a ton out there, but they range so much in terms of content depending on the personal perspective of the podcaster. For example, many of the podcasters were parents, so those aspects of sobriety really lost me 'cuz I DGAF about some stranger's parenting woes.

You're missing out buddy, podcasts are great. Like you say, they range so much, there's bound to be something out there you like!

Metalcat

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Re: Give Up the Hooch: Booze Free for as long as you please!
« Reply #784 on: February 15, 2021, 01:20:14 PM »
Two months! :D

well done! I'm one month 15 days and going strong. Chaining sobriety podcasts and reading This Naked Mind at the moment.

If anyone has any good podcasts, let me know.

I personally never found any podcasts that resonated with me, but I have a hard time enjoying podcasts period.

I know there are a ton out there, but they range so much in terms of content depending on the personal perspective of the podcaster. For example, many of the podcasters were parents, so those aspects of sobriety really lost me 'cuz I DGAF about some stranger's parenting woes.

You're missing out buddy, podcasts are great. Like you say, they range so much, there's bound to be something out there you like!

Sure, everyone says that, but after trying for years to tolerate podcasts, I really don't feel like I'm missing out.

But I listen to an absolute fuck-ton of educational audiobooks, so that might be why I'm intolerant of the blathering of podcasts.

Steeze

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Re: Give Up the Hooch: Booze Free for as long as you please!
« Reply #785 on: February 15, 2021, 02:48:33 PM »
Two months! :D

well done! I'm one month 15 days and going strong. Chaining sobriety podcasts and reading This Naked Mind at the moment.

If anyone has any good podcasts, let me know.

I personally never found any podcasts that resonated with me, but I have a hard time enjoying podcasts period.

I know there are a ton out there, but they range so much in terms of content depending on the personal perspective of the podcaster. For example, many of the podcasters were parents, so those aspects of sobriety really lost me 'cuz I DGAF about some stranger's parenting woes.

You're missing out buddy, podcasts are great. Like you say, they range so much, there's bound to be something out there you like!

Sure, everyone says that, but after trying for years to tolerate podcasts, I really don't feel like I'm missing out.

But I listen to an absolute fuck-ton of educational audiobooks, so that might be why I'm intolerant of the blathering of podcasts.

I have a difficult time getting into podcasts - but I don't mind watching a podcast being filmed on YouTube. Not sure why seeing the person talk makes such as difference for me.

brooklynmoney

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Re: Give Up the Hooch: Booze Free for as long as you please!
« Reply #786 on: February 15, 2021, 08:27:33 PM »
Two months! :D

well done! I'm one month 15 days and going strong. Chaining sobriety podcasts and reading This Naked Mind at the moment.

If anyone has any good podcasts, let me know.

I’m at 2 months as well. Amazing the difference in the quality of my sleep.

Stubblestache

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Re: Give Up the Hooch: Booze Free for as long as you please!
« Reply #787 on: February 16, 2021, 01:15:31 AM »
Two months! :D

well done! I'm one month 15 days and going strong. Chaining sobriety podcasts and reading This Naked Mind at the moment.

If anyone has any good podcasts, let me know.

I personally never found any podcasts that resonated with me, but I have a hard time enjoying podcasts period.

I know there are a ton out there, but they range so much in terms of content depending on the personal perspective of the podcaster. For example, many of the podcasters were parents, so those aspects of sobriety really lost me 'cuz I DGAF about some stranger's parenting woes.

You're missing out buddy, podcasts are great. Like you say, they range so much, there's bound to be something out there you like!

Sure, everyone says that, but after trying for years to tolerate podcasts, I really don't feel like I'm missing out.

But I listen to an absolute fuck-ton of educational audiobooks, so that might be why I'm intolerant of the blathering of podcasts.

How funny, I can't stand audiobooks and will take reading over it every time :D

Metalcat

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Re: Give Up the Hooch: Booze Free for as long as you please!
« Reply #788 on: February 16, 2021, 07:09:05 AM »
Two months! :D

well done! I'm one month 15 days and going strong. Chaining sobriety podcasts and reading This Naked Mind at the moment.

If anyone has any good podcasts, let me know.

I personally never found any podcasts that resonated with me, but I have a hard time enjoying podcasts period.

I know there are a ton out there, but they range so much in terms of content depending on the personal perspective of the podcaster. For example, many of the podcasters were parents, so those aspects of sobriety really lost me 'cuz I DGAF about some stranger's parenting woes.

You're missing out buddy, podcasts are great. Like you say, they range so much, there's bound to be something out there you like!

Sure, everyone says that, but after trying for years to tolerate podcasts, I really don't feel like I'm missing out.

But I listen to an absolute fuck-ton of educational audiobooks, so that might be why I'm intolerant of the blathering of podcasts.

How funny, I can't stand audiobooks and will take reading over it every time :D

I can't read while: cooking, walking, exercising, cleaning, or driving.

WhiteTrashCash

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Re: Give Up the Hooch: Booze Free for as long as you please!
« Reply #789 on: February 21, 2021, 02:20:00 PM »
I haven't had any alcohol in nearly two months and so far in conjunction with mild calorie counting and exercise I have lost eight pounds. My blood pressure has improved by about 10 points so far. I feel pretty good and I'm getting much better sleep.

BikeFanatic

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Re: Give Up the Hooch: Booze Free for as long as you please!
« Reply #790 on: February 21, 2021, 02:23:52 PM »
Both of you are aproaching 2 months no alcohol, no small feat.
I think the improved sleeping was something that I noticed early, then significantly increased energy at 2-3 months. Good luck to both of you.

4tify

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Re: Give Up the Hooch: Booze Free for as long as you please!
« Reply #791 on: February 22, 2021, 07:23:20 AM »
I'm on my second "break" since Coronavirus took us all by storm. I noticed I was drinking more heavily out of boredom during lockdown, and was starting to feel the bad effects on my body: fatigue, racing heart, etc.

I completed sober October without too much distress. The first week was terrible in terms of sleeping, but by the end of the month I was doing great. I decided to just let myself go back to drinking however things happened. For the first month or so I was moderate (less than 10 drinks per week I'd say) but slowly the tolerance rose and by the end of the year I was back to drinking too heavily.

I was planning on Dry January, but couldn't get going, so now I'm on Dry Lent. Five days in it's been much easier than October--no where near the difficulty sleeping, and I've just been reading before bed, which has been really nice.

I'd say the hardest thing about not drinking is that I feel "bored" in the evenings. I'm not a huge tv person. After about an hour I'm done. So I read. It doesn't feel exciting but my body is thanking me for it :)

Metalcat

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Re: Give Up the Hooch: Booze Free for as long as you please!
« Reply #792 on: February 22, 2021, 07:54:28 AM »
I'm on my second "break" since Coronavirus took us all by storm. I noticed I was drinking more heavily out of boredom during lockdown, and was starting to feel the bad effects on my body: fatigue, racing heart, etc.

I completed sober October without too much distress. The first week was terrible in terms of sleeping, but by the end of the month I was doing great. I decided to just let myself go back to drinking however things happened. For the first month or so I was moderate (less than 10 drinks per week I'd say) but slowly the tolerance rose and by the end of the year I was back to drinking too heavily.

I was planning on Dry January, but couldn't get going, so now I'm on Dry Lent. Five days in it's been much easier than October--no where near the difficulty sleeping, and I've just been reading before bed, which has been really nice.

I'd say the hardest thing about not drinking is that I feel "bored" in the evenings. I'm not a huge tv person. After about an hour I'm done. So I read. It doesn't feel exciting but my body is thanking me for it :)

Annie Grace really hammers into the drinking out of boredom concept.

If you look at the cognitive effects of alcohol, it doesn't relieve boredom in any way, so why do people drink when they are bored and think that it's fun??

Well, that comes down to the mechanism of addiction. The biggest high drinkers get from drinking is actually the endogenous neurological payoff from giving in to a craving, not from the alcohol itself.

If your brain becomes accustom to getting an alcohol hit after work, then it starts releasing dopamine a few hours before the event. Dopamine, contrary to previous understanding, isn't primarily responsible for feeling good, it's primarily responsible for wanting *more* of something.

Eating one chip and wanting more? Dopamine
Doing a great ski run and wanting another right away? Dopamine
Making out with someone and it rapidly escalating to wanting sex? Dopamine
Getting super excited while planning a vacation? Dopamine
Being used to having a drink at 5pm, and 4pm rolls around and has you vividly imagining pouring a glass of your favourite drink? Dopamine

A buildup of dopamine is actually uncomfortable to resist, and giving in to it creates a huge sense of excitement. So that's the thrill of having the evening drink, it's not really the direct effect of the alcohol, which really doesn't actually have many fun effects, it's the surge or dopamine and then the excitement of satisfying that dopamine craving.

If you didn't crave the alcohol in the first place, then drinking it wouldn't alleviate any boredom.

That's what I found with my most recent experiment.
I used to so look forward to my evening wine, and used to always lament that no second drink was ever as good as the first one.

I just didn't realize that the first drink was awesome, but it had nothing to do with the alcohol, it had to do with the internal brain chemistry that was rewarding me for giving in to the craving that the brain had for the alcohol.

The brain gets addicted to the alcohol even though the effects are generally no fun. It's addictive because it's addictive, not because it does anything good.

Our stupid brains have to flood us with our own, natural happy feeling chemicals to fool us into thinking that the booze is fun. It isn't, the brain is just extremely good at doing whatever it takes to get us to consume whatever it's become even mildly addicted to.

I had *zero* fun with my drinking experiment a few weeks ago. No dopamine, no craving to give in to, no fun from drinking. It was tedious and awful. Feeling buzzed without any addiction fueling it is in no way fun. That's why taking naltrexone takes all the fun out of it.

It's the same way I've known a lot of people who tried cocaine and thought "m'eh, that's it?" but cocaine addicts think it's the greatest high on the face of the earth. And the people who absolutely *loved* it the first time they tried it? They're the people who got addicted with their first use, and the ones most likely to develop a problem.

I've had this addictive experience with opiates. I've never found them overly pleasant, but I was once on oxy long enough to become dependent and by the end, I really looked forward to my dose. The same drug that made me feel woozy and kind of awful on day 1, felt dreamy and wonderful on day 10. How? Same drug...

It turns out *being* addicted creates the sense of enjoyment, not the primary action of the drug itself.

I had the exact same experience with sugar last year.
I haven't eaten much sugar for nearly a decade. I don't digest it well and didn't enjoy it much. I never craved it.

Then I quit alcohol and started having sugar in the evenings to deal with the cravings. Well, sugar is a very effective dopamine trigger. I got totally hooked, and for most of 2020, my cravings for sugar were far more powerful than my cravings for alcohol had ever been.

This is something I had never enjoyed, never craved, never thought twice about, and suddenly, after a few weeks of nightly consumption, all I could think about in the evenings was eating something sweet. It started tasting AMAZING. Nothing was too sweet, things I would have considered inedibly sweet became exquisite.

Now that I'm off sugar again, these things are gross again. I can objectively say that I find Oreo cookies to be sickly sweet and cannot consider them food. But 6 months ago, they were culinary perfection as far as I was concerned.

So my point is, your brain will manipulate your perception of anything it becomes addicted to in order to convince you that's it's SO AMAZING to consume it, when it's just a trick.

None of these things are objectively all that enjoyable unless your brain gets hooked on them.

So alcohol is boring. It does absolutely NOTHING to alleviate boredom. But your brain wants it, so it's giving you a boost of excitement in exchange for you giving it the poison it's mildly/moderately addicted to.

So consider that the next time alcohol seems like the answer to boredom. Contemplate where the sense of relief from boredom actually comes from, because I guarantee you, it's not from the alcohol itself.

StarBright

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Re: Give Up the Hooch: Booze Free for as long as you please!
« Reply #793 on: February 22, 2021, 08:35:10 AM »
.
I'd say the hardest thing about not drinking is that I feel "bored" in the evenings. I'm not a huge tv person. After about an hour I'm done. So I read. It doesn't feel exciting but my body is thanking me for it :)

FWIW - you aren't alone on the bored thing. This is my current experience too. I even mentioned it to my husband the other night, like "I just want to make and sip something for an hour because it will use up an hour."

I wonder how much of it is just pandemic and winter making things worse? I'm never bored in the summer. In the summer I'll often step outside and take a walk or just look at stars when I'm bored or I might take myself to a late movie, or even go to the gym.

But right now there is nothing to do. Looking at another screen is enough to drive me bonkers and powers of concentration and focus are diminished by the end of the day, eyes are tired and nothing is open. I guess I could still go outside but I often don't want to deal with pulling furniture out of winter storage and kitting myself out in warmers and layers and snow gear before bed, etc.

Spring really is around the corner though!

I will say not drinking has made the "should I make myself a drink?" question way easier though. Right now it just isn't an option and I appreciate the ease of that.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2021, 09:03:42 AM by StarBright »

BikeFanatic

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Re: Give Up the Hooch: Booze Free for as long as you please!
« Reply #794 on: February 22, 2021, 10:28:56 AM »
@Malcat,
Quote
Then I quit alcohol and started having sugar in the evenings to deal with the cravings. Well, sugar is a very effective dopamine trigger. I got totally hooked, and for most of 2020, my cravings for sugar were far more powerful than my cravings for alcohol had ever been.
I had the SAME experience with sugar, I was so surprised that I had a sugar addiction! I was like where was this addiction when I drank beer? I  was never addicted to sugar before. But there was the craving chocolate and ice cream every night, I had thought at the time, that I must have always had a sugar addiction and perhaps beer was the sugar until I quit.
 Damn my addicted brain.

Cassie

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Re: Give Up the Hooch: Booze Free for as long as you please!
« Reply #795 on: February 22, 2021, 07:09:59 PM »
Malcat, really interesting insights. I have never had a sugar addiction but since I quit drinking 7 months ago I drink a cup of hot chocolate and have 2 pieces of chocolate every evening. I look forward to it. I have lost 32 pounds and just figure it into my calories.  I am okay with this new addiction:)).

Stubblestache

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Re: Give Up the Hooch: Booze Free for as long as you please!
« Reply #796 on: February 23, 2021, 03:20:35 AM »
Good points @Malcat . I'm reading through This Naked Mind now (and listening to Annie Grace's podcasts, which I know you love :P) and it is certainly interesting to look at my addiction through the lense of what is scientifically happening.

I'm also now trying to quit sugar. Woke up over the weekend with an actual sugar hangover - felt almost as bad as an alcohol hangover physically. Headache, sluggish, felt sick. Luckily didn't have any of the mental anguish that can come with a drinking hangover.

Meditation and AA is helping on both fronts.

At this rate of virtuous behaviour takeup, I fully expect to be able to levitate and emit golden light from my eyes within the next month or so.

Metalcat

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Re: Give Up the Hooch: Booze Free for as long as you please!
« Reply #797 on: February 23, 2021, 06:40:12 AM »
At this rate of virtuous behaviour takeup, I fully expect to be able to levitate and emit golden light from my eyes within the next month or so.

I actually LOLed. Bravo!

Now that I'm not craving alcohol, I'm working to cut sugar as well. I tried adopting a bunch of healthy lifestyle changes all at once on 1 Jan, and only quitting drinking stuck past the third week. Now that I associate drinking more with the crummy health effects than the dopamine rush (seriously, This Naked Mind is terrific for changing perspective!), I'm going to try re-introducing some other healthy habits. I'm a retired sailor, so virtue and I have always had a tense relationship, but I'm working on it.

Don't see them as virtuous then. How can something be virtuous if it only benefits yourself?

I focus on doing what makes me feel good. Sugar doesn't make me feel good, so in stopped eating it. Red meat makes me feel ill, so I almost never eat it. Processed food really doesn't make me feel good, so I generally avoid it. My condition was making my heart race and giving me ~500 heart palpitations a day, so I stopped drinking coffee and I feel much better.

I switched to almost entirely vegetarian for virtuous reasons, but I make the particular dishes I do because I like them and they make my body feel good.

I read a series of studies that found that the most sustainable diet approach was one where before people consumed anything, they mentally projected how it would make their body feel afterwards.

So that's what I do. Everything I consume or don't consume is based on how I project it will make me feel, so not consuming alcohol, coffee, meat, sugar, processed food, and meat 90% of the time doesn't feel like self denial, it actually feels like self indulgence because I'm always indulging what my body wants.

It's not virtue, it's keeping my high maintenance bitch of a body happy with me, and she is a demanding mistress.

I can't sustain any habit that's based on self denial, it goes against the very core of my being. But self care? Adding benefit to my day and my life in general? Yeah, I can easily get behind that philosophically.

4tify

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Re: Give Up the Hooch: Booze Free for as long as you please!
« Reply #798 on: February 23, 2021, 07:40:03 AM »

A buildup of dopamine is actually uncomfortable to resist, and giving in to it creates a huge sense of excitement. So that's the thrill of having the evening drink, it's not really the direct effect of the alcohol, which really doesn't actually have many fun effects, it's the surge or dopamine and then the excitement of satisfying that dopamine craving.

If you didn't crave the alcohol in the first place, then drinking it wouldn't alleviate any boredom.

That's what I found with my most recent experiment.
I used to so look forward to my evening wine, and used to always lament that no second drink was ever as good as the first one.

I just didn't realize that the first drink was awesome, but it had nothing to do with the alcohol, it had to do with the internal brain chemistry that was rewarding me for giving in to the craving that the brain had for the alcohol.


This is really interesting. I'm not sure it really hit home when I did Annie's Experiment but now that you've laid it out again I can definitely see how this works. It's the anticipation that is so hard to resist. I can confirm this in 2 ways. First, I definitely know the feeling of the little serotonin burst when I pour that after work drink and my happy parts come out singing "yay, now we get to relax!" Also after my month off last year when I had my first few drinks I had basically broken that habit, so didn't feel the "joy." Instead I was like "why am I even having a drink?" And once I did, I'd stop (since my tolerance was reset) because I didn't particularly like the on-coming buzz.

As for the boredom, I'm still working on the "filling the hours" bit. Again, reading seems to help but it's still a little crunchy for the moment.

Thanks for the feedback @Malcat

4tify

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Re: Give Up the Hooch: Booze Free for as long as you please!
« Reply #799 on: February 23, 2021, 07:42:21 AM »

I will say not drinking has made the "should I make myself a drink?" question way easier though. Right now it just isn't an option and I appreciate the ease of that.

Totally agree with this. Taking the choice away radically simplifies the issue :)