Author Topic: Get Your Shit Together! Wills, living wills, POAs, life insurance, etc.  (Read 10588 times)

Rural

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Re: Get Your Shit Together! Wills, living wills, POAs, life insurance, etc.
« Reply #100 on: December 29, 2017, 06:57:42 PM »
Got a medallion signature to fix someone else's mistake that was affecting us. Name spelled wrong on a brokerage account, mispelling courtesy a long-ago employer. Should be fixed soon now.

Guava

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Re: Get Your Shit Together! Wills, living wills, POAs, life insurance, etc.
« Reply #101 on: December 29, 2017, 07:17:56 PM »
This is on my list for 2018. I really want to get my end of life plans sorted out because people always get weird about those things when the time comes. I am ineligible to donate any organs so I want my body donated to science...and even though everyone knows that, I want it written out so there is no turning around.  Aside from that, hubby doesn't have his name on the house at all so I need to make sure that gets taken care of ASAP.

Debating whether to get a small term life policy on him as well. I could manage financially without him but something to pay for his arrangements would be helpful (and I don't even know what type of arrangements he wants!)

Thanks for this thread...it should be a reminder for us to get on track.

Step37

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Re: Get Your Shit Together! Wills, living wills, POAs, life insurance, etc.
« Reply #102 on: December 30, 2017, 12:50:28 AM »
Great thread. Posting to find again and finish reading through. Took care of wills/POA a couple of years ago, but could work on emergency preparedness. Also need to have a discussion with my parents to see where their “shit” stands (I know it’s not in order and I’m hoping they’ll let me help). Will look at “the conversation” link for help with this.
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Bracken_Joy

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Re: Get Your Shit Together! Wills, living wills, POAs, life insurance, etc.
« Reply #103 on: January 03, 2018, 12:50:21 PM »
Posting this, partially to find later, partially to share with you all: https://www.fema.gov/media-library-data/1501683551530-cef254f971fed5df499b719d25325d07/Protect_Critical_Docs_and_Valuables_508.pdf

Fema's guidelines on safeguarding critical documents.
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Paul der Krake

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Re: Get Your Shit Together! Wills, living wills, POAs, life insurance, etc.
« Reply #104 on: January 03, 2018, 01:34:11 PM »
Consider leaving your valuable documents at work. My building is open 24/7, earthquake-proof, filled with emergency food in the event of a natural disaster, with full time security and monitoring staff keeping an eye on things. My home has none of this.

If shit hits the fan, I'll be going there anyway.

Serendip

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Re: Get Your Shit Together! Wills, living wills, POAs, life insurance, etc.
« Reply #105 on: January 03, 2018, 01:46:39 PM »
Thanks for the reminder printed off beneficiary forms for RRSP & TFSA, ready to send!

Poundwise

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Re: Get Your Shit Together! Wills, living wills, POAs, life insurance, etc.
« Reply #106 on: January 04, 2018, 07:25:15 AM »
Thanks for this!  I drew up a will over a decade ago but it needs serious revision... and my husband doesn't have a will at all!

BeanCounter

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Re: Get Your Shit Together! Wills, living wills, POAs, life insurance, etc.
« Reply #107 on: January 05, 2018, 07:02:28 AM »
we need to do this this year. It has to get done. Two parents, 40 with two kids, over a million dollars in assets and NO WILL.

netskyblue

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Re: Get Your Shit Together! Wills, living wills, POAs, life insurance, etc.
« Reply #108 on: January 05, 2018, 09:35:02 AM »
I finally did this!  (At age 34).  Will, durable medical PoA, springing financial PoA, and in the process of getting life insurance, just did the physical exam.  I finally have someone in my life that I trust with these things, and as we've made the decision (for now at least) not to set marriage as an "end goal," we're setting each other up with as many legal protections and rights as possible outside of marriage.

Sailor Sam

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Re: Get Your Shit Together! Wills, living wills, POAs, life insurance, etc.
« Reply #109 on: January 05, 2018, 09:59:54 AM »
Yesterday I excecuted my will, and my deployment PoA, springing medical PoA, springing general PoA, and advanced directive.

I've also scanned 10 years of medical/dental records (that sucked). I need to scan all of 2017's records, plus my new passport and work credentials.

Progress!

Bicycle_B

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Re: Get Your Shit Together! Wills, living wills, POAs, life insurance, etc.
« Reply #110 on: January 05, 2018, 12:06:57 PM »
Good job SS!

Update to thread readers re current step - received word that my application for long term care insurance (TLDR family Alzheimer's) is on hold pending completion of some physical therapy. PT is in progress. Will update in probably 2-3 months.

Optimiser

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Re: Get Your Shit Together! Wills, living wills, POAs, life insurance, etc.
« Reply #111 on: January 05, 2018, 12:20:30 PM »
Posting to follow and to remind myself to get my shit together.

Jessa

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Re: Get Your Shit Together! Wills, living wills, POAs, life insurance, etc.
« Reply #112 on: January 05, 2018, 12:21:24 PM »
Woo hoo! Life insurance application approved! I'll have one 10 year policy for $250k and one 20 year policy for $100k. Husband and Tiny Sparkles should be okay if i kick the bucket :)

Sailor Sam

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Re: Get Your Shit Together! Wills, living wills, POAs, life insurance, etc.
« Reply #113 on: January 05, 2018, 12:21:43 PM »
Good job SS!

Update to thread readers re current step - received word that my application for long term care insurance (TLDR family Alzheimer's) is on hold pending completion of some physical therapy. PT is in progress. Will update in probably 2-3 months.

Thank you, sir. Enjoy PT.

Roadrunner53

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Get Your Shit Together! Wills, living wills, POAs, life insurance, etc.
« Reply #114 on: January 06, 2018, 09:53:16 AM »
We did our wills years ago and they need to be redone. Since the will were made my parents are gone and my Hubs parents are gone. We aren't close to 2 of his 3 siblings. One we get together maybe once a year for dinner. The other two are estranged from us. We have no close friends and no children. Hub has been wanting to redo the wills but I am at a loss on who to leave our money to if there is any left. Originally we left a token amount to Hubs siblings in the event the parents passed. So that is where it is now. Since we basically don't have much of a relationship with 2 out of the 3 that only leaves charity. We originally had a local animal welfare organization on the will. I still would like that. But I feel like something is missing! I keep postponing redoing the wills because I just don't know what to do! I have one close friend in another state and she could use money. She has had 3 failed marriages, bought a house and a car and had to go into foreclosure and had dumped inheritance money into the house. She had to declare bankruptcy. Whatever we decide to do I would like to put the money into a trust where the organization or person would get something like an annuity each year. Maybe something that they would only get the yearly interest and the principle would always be intact. Especially for an animal welfare organization. Anyone have any ideas here?

meerkat

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Re: Get Your Shit Together! Wills, living wills, POAs, life insurance, etc.
« Reply #115 on: January 06, 2018, 09:58:57 AM »
We did our wills years ago and they need to be redone. Since the will were made my parents are gone and my Hubs parents are gone. We aren't close to 2 of his 3 siblings. One we get together maybe once a year for dinner. The other two are estranged from us. We have no close friends and no children. Hub has been wanting to redo the wills but I am at a loss on who to leave our money to if there is any left. Originally we left a token amount to Hubs siblings in the event the parents passed. So that is where it is now. Since we basically don't have much of a relationship with 2 out of the 3 that only leaves charity. We originally had a local animal welfare organization on the will. I still would like that. But I feel like something is missing! I keep postponing redoing the wills because I just don't know what to do! I have one close friend in another state and she could use money. She has had 3 failed marriages, bought a house and a car and had to go into foreclosure and had dumped inheritance money into the house. She had to declare bankruptcy. Whatever we decide to do I would like to put the money into a trust where the organization or person would get something like an annuity each year. Maybe something that they would only get the yearly interest and the principle would always be intact. Especially for an animal welfare organization. Anyone have any ideas here?

I'd say that's definitely a lawyer question, especially if your friend lives in another state. They should also have an idea of what other clients have done in situations similar to yours where there's not much family they want to leave their money to.
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meerkat

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Re: Get Your Shit Together! Wills, living wills, POAs, life insurance, etc.
« Reply #116 on: February 14, 2018, 08:05:40 AM »
How's everyone doing? We've updated some of our accounts to have the right beneficiary information, tax stuff has actually been helpful with remembering what accounts need that adjusted. Still need to do the password/account list. I figure even if the passwords change, knowing there's an account at xyz institution should help whoever has to track down all my stuff later.

We did agree that, while in theory it might be helpful to use my mom's safe as a safety deposit box, we don't trust her not to look through some of our personal documents in the spirit of "helpfulness" one day. On the flip side I have explicitly shared some documents with my dad since he'll be undertaking financial guardianship of our son if both me and my husband get hit by a bus. I emailed them to him and also showed him at our house where to look for stuff when he was visiting one time, it took maybe five minutes and then we got back to chatting like usual.
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mspym

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Re: Get Your Shit Together! Wills, living wills, POAs, life insurance, etc.
« Reply #117 on: February 16, 2018, 03:39:30 PM »
alright, time to make a list of all the shit I gotta get sorted out, now that I am married and have assets.

In no particular order,
1- Write up an assets list
        a) Done
2- Assign beneficiaries for my super/ associated life insurance
        b) May do this through my will unless this clears faster than the 6 months probate process for wills. Add solving this to the list
3- Make a will. Any advice for Australia? is it worth just doing the Public Trust thing?
        c) Read up the trust rules yesterday and impact of dying intestate is everything goes to my husband. Since I want to split my estate between husband, kids and niblings, time to make a will
4- Work out if there is any difference to our tax situation now we are married
        d) Need to talk to the accountant. Next step, make an appointment
5- Work out a plan for my step children, in case anything happens to my husband 
6- Get a medical check-up - Need to book
7- Have the medical/living will conversation.
         e) started the conversation while walking around the bays, both want to be cremated. Both want to be resuscitated.

New item: Work out the tax implications of moving out of Oz back to NZ. Because I am paying a boatload in taxes each year (and happy to do so) but don't want to have to sell up and take another hit when my preference is to leave my money here.
         f) another item for the accountant as the rules around residency, pensions and citizenship are super complicated, particularly as my husband is American and may or may not get citizenship based on the outcome of the tax discussion.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2018, 09:03:21 PM by mspym »

CrustyBadger

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Re: Get Your Shit Together! Wills, living wills, POAs, life insurance, etc.
« Reply #118 on: February 18, 2018, 06:25:16 AM »
Just saw this thread and posting to follow!

My husband and I did all these things about 15 years ago after the birth of our first child, but our wills never even mention the second child and our situation has changed considerably.

We have a lot of complicated things to work out (husband is severely disabled and on disability retirement/SSDI) but we also have some less complicated things I should be able to work on realatively quickly.

BrakeForTurtles

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Re: Get Your Shit Together! Wills, living wills, POAs, life insurance, etc.
« Reply #119 on: February 20, 2018, 09:48:56 AM »
I'm making an appointment this week to sort this all out with a lawyer. I have decided to leave most of my assets to charities, as my high-earning DH will be fine without me, we have no children, and my sister is also a higher earner (I might leave her my personal finance books and maybe buy a lifelong membership to YNAB for her).

When listing charities, do you have to notify them in any way? Or can you just put them down and then leave it to the executor to work it out? I'm not even sure some of the places I have in mind accept donations, so should I confirm with them first?
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cchrissyy

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Re: Get Your Shit Together! Wills, living wills, POAs, life insurance, etc.
« Reply #120 on: February 20, 2018, 10:35:55 AM »
most charities have somebody on staff to help you put this in your will properly, but also they would help the executor. i'm sure it's preferable if you contact them in advance.

as far as not leaving money to your high earning sibling or spouse, please do consider what your wishes would be if circumstances changed. what if, years down the line, you pass away and they aren't high earners at the time? like if the economy tanked and they were aid off? or if they had become sick or disabled as the years passed?  if your wishes would be different in that case then have your will written now in a way that deals with it.  or what if you pass away in a accident (car? fire?) that also severely injures your spouse?  are your wishes different in that case?

Mezzie

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Re: Get Your Shit Together! Wills, living wills, POAs, life insurance, etc.
« Reply #121 on: February 20, 2018, 10:49:22 AM »
I keep meaning to do this, but I keep putting it off.

I have some other big things to attend to this summer, so I should get the following done as well:

- Write a real will with a lawyer (right now I have a piece of paper).
- Make a secure document with passwords, bill instructions, lists of various insurances to collect upon my death/disability for my husband and give access to my sister and brother who tend to have level heads in a crisis. That's on paper, too, but without complete passwords.
- Update the secondary beneficiaries on our accounts to include new humans in our extended family.
- Decide who to give power of attorney to in the event my husband cannot fill that role. I'm leaning towards my little brother or my unofficial daughter if one of them is willing (we have no children)
- Set up funeral plans. We know what we want and where. I've even looked up the cost and payment plans, and they are reasonable. I don't want anyone to have to stress out about that.
- Update my living will and do not resuscitate orders.
- Hire a hitman to smother me with a pillow if I get completely lost in dementia (the death with dignity laws should allow this).


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Sibley

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Re: Get Your Shit Together! Wills, living wills, POAs, life insurance, etc.
« Reply #122 on: February 20, 2018, 12:59:30 PM »
Progress! Met with the attorney yesterday to sign everything. Just need to take one thing to be recorded, and of course the County is closed on President's day. So I will get that done. Was too cheap to have the attorney's office do it and pay them the $30, in addition to the recording fees.

netskyblue

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Re: Get Your Shit Together! Wills, living wills, POAs, life insurance, etc.
« Reply #123 on: February 23, 2018, 11:02:51 AM »
I applied for life insurance in November, they did my medical exam in December, and I've been waiting for them to get the requested medical records from my health care providers ever since.  We're almost into March...

Bicycle_B

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Re: Get Your Shit Together! Wills, living wills, POAs, life insurance, etc.
« Reply #124 on: February 23, 2018, 11:08:03 AM »
Making progress on current goal of completing physical therapy in order to qualify for long term care insurance.  Target date end March, though that's fuzzy.


grilledcheese

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Re: Get Your Shit Together! Wills, living wills, POAs, life insurance, etc.
« Reply #125 on: February 23, 2018, 11:49:11 AM »
I so need this thread. I started the process to do my will many years ago, and stalled when we couldn't decide on a guardian for our kids. So instead, we have nothing. I've been sticking my head in the sand on this one.

kaleidoscopicalkris

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Re: Get Your Shit Together! Wills, living wills, POAs, life insurance, etc.
« Reply #126 on: February 23, 2018, 12:00:34 PM »
PTF! I got married last year and need to push forward with making sure everything goes to my wife, and work out what happens if we both pass.

N

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Re: Get Your Shit Together! Wills, living wills, POAs, life insurance, etc.
« Reply #127 on: February 23, 2018, 10:50:36 PM »
Well,  all of our will and trust paperwork is almost done. I expect that we will be able to get it signed this coming week and notarized.

I will still need to work on emergency preparedness: Go Bags and having important docs/info in a safe place. I actually might get a safe :)

Im really glad Im getting this sorted out.

Finances_With_Purpose

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Re: Get Your Shit Together! Wills, living wills, POAs, life insurance, etc.
« Reply #128 on: February 24, 2018, 12:44:46 AM »
All covered here.  But dropping by to say I support this initiative and this thread.  Good idea, all!  I have watched love ones go through end-of-life (and seen it done well); doing this is helping those you care about. 

jooniFLORisploo

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Also all covered here, but joining because I need to update almost all of them now.
what a waste of a window i say

N

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Well,  all of our will and trust paperwork is almost done. I expect that we will be able to get it signed this coming week and notarized.

I will still need to work on emergency preparedness: Go Bags and having important docs/info in a safe place. I actually might get a safe :)

Im really glad Im getting this sorted out.

YAY! WE DID IT!!
Wills and Trusts and Guardian Documents are all signed and notarized. Got it done today. I bought a safe! I need to make a copy and send to my dad (who is also my lawyer for now).

Working on 72 Hr Go bags. I have to make at least 4, so that is a lot. I should probably also consider one for the car and one for my husband to have at work.  I made a checklist and will plan to keep picking up a few things at a time until its all collected.

jooniFLORisploo

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Well done, N!!!
what a waste of a window i say

zygote

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I got married last year, so putting a will together was on the forefront of my mind before I even saw this thread. Glad to have the extra encouragement.

After a disaster where my house is currently so messy I didn't even realize that the draft of my will was mailed to me three weeks ago (see: the decluttering thread), I read it over and talked through some minor changes with the lawyer this morning. Going in to sign it on April 10th.

Rimu05

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Hey, thanks for the reminder! I have a folder on my computer called “It’s Time to Adult” where I have drafted a POA, Will, Pour-Over Trust, and Living Will, but haven’t actually executed everything in it yet. So I need to get on that.

Me: 27F Attorney.
Status: Single.
Net Worth: -3k.

• Have a POA drafted but not executed.
• Have a will drafted but not executed.
• Have a pour over trust drafted but not executed.
• Have a living will/advanced directive drafted but not executed.
• Term life insurance needs additional blood work before they will finalize my policy.

I guess I should keep all of my financial accounts, passwords, medical cards and information, and other important info somewhere but I’m not sure where at this point. May be time to invest in a safe deposit box. I’m sure one of my banks will give a discounted or free SDP based on my assets. But I’m also thinking I should just make a binder and keep it at home just in case.

I'm a year younger but you have me wondering at what age one is supposed to do this? My networth is -20K so I am not sure how any of this will benefit me. Which makes me wonder, at what age should I be getting life insurance and drafting wills?

Goldielocks

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Term Life insurance
-- get it if your income supports someone else and they rely on it in some way.

Disability insurance - get it if you rely on being able to earn an income for many more years
-- does your future self rely on your ability to make income for the next 10-25 years?.

Wills
-- need one if you have a minor or dependent.  Period.  To declare who will take care of them.   Creating a guessing game when you die that requires government is not recommended.
-- need one if you don't like how the government will divide up your assets and take an admin fee while doing so... such as if you live with a (not spouse) partner who may be excluded from any assets or ability to remain in your current home after you die.  Most single people are ok with the government rules.  But maybe you don't want your estranged parent to get your savings..

Living Will / Health Directive
-- just a great idea to name someone who will make medical decisions if you can't (car accident / stroke), and someone who will be able to access / handle your accounts if you are medically incabable (pay your rent while you are in hospital in a coma).  If you don't care, well, then you don't care..

lexde

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Hey, thanks for the reminder! I have a folder on my computer called “It’s Time to Adult” where I have drafted a POA, Will, Pour-Over Trust, and Living Will, but haven’t actually executed everything in it yet. So I need to get on that.

Me: 27F Attorney.
Status: Single.
Net Worth: -3k.

• Have a POA drafted but not executed.
• Have a will drafted but not executed.
• Have a pour over trust drafted but not executed.
• Have a living will/advanced directive drafted but not executed.
• Term life insurance needs additional blood work before they will finalize my policy.

I guess I should keep all of my financial accounts, passwords, medical cards and information, and other important info somewhere but I’m not sure where at this point. May be time to invest in a safe deposit box. I’m sure one of my banks will give a discounted or free SDP based on my assets. But I’m also thinking I should just make a binder and keep it at home just in case.

I'm a year younger but you have me wondering at what age one is supposed to do this? My networth is -20K so I am not sure how any of this will benefit me. Which makes me wonder, at what age should I be getting life insurance and drafting wills?
Well, obligatory "this is not legal advice if you're looking for actual legal advice please seek an attorney who is licensed in your state, preferably who has experience in wills, trusts, and/or estate planning."  Whew. Okay.

So, the short answer (as with 99% of legal advice type answers) is "it depends." I have very limited information about your situation so I can't tell you specifically what you should look at getting. But it really depends on your situation. Don't wait until you feel like you need these items. I drafted mine when I was -30K in debt, because I wanted to have some say in what happens to my things. I made the mistake of not finalizing them until much later, though, and I feel so much better with a life insurance policy etc. in place.

1. Term life insurance - I got this because I have a long-term SO who I split all of my bills with. If you aren't married or have kids/dependents, this isn't as important, but I wanted to be sure that my SO and close family were okay if I passed and couldn't provide any help to them anymore (even if I don't regularly support them). I got $750K of coverage for $320/year. This is worth it to me.

2. Disability insurance - I chose not to get this, but it's up to you, and you should have it if married/dependents, otherwise it's optional. Some people carry it just until they FIRE since they can usually self-insure at that point.

3. Wills - I have one because I have a dog, and certain items I want to be sure go to certain people. I don't have much, but I would like to make sure that my dog and enough money to take care of her go to the right person. I'm not married and don't have kids, but I think everyone should have a will even if it's just for their funeral wishes and to give someone their car/furniture/whatever. Your will can get more complex as you gain assets, but even a basic one is something I think everyone should have. Google "[Your State] Intestate Distribution" to see who would get all of your stuff if you pass without a will. Usually, it goes: all to spouse, then if they aren't alive/you don't have one, all to your kids, then your parents, then your siblings, then your grandparents, then your great-grandparents, then aunt/uncles, etc. So if you absolutely don't want a will for some reason, then make sure you're 100% okay with the intestate order.

4. Power of Attorney - I have this because I know that my medical POA will follow my wishes to take me off of life support if the situation calls for it, and most people would have a really hard time doing that. Financial POA, too, because I know that person will manage my finances while I am incapacitated and will be reasonable.

5. Living Will - Especially if you're a woman I think this is important. I have a list of my wishes for life support, what level of care I am willing to undergo, for how long, with what prognosis, etc. and because I am female, I have the exact same list with changes if I happen to be pregnant at the time of my incapacitation. While I don't plan on having kids, I still want to consider all possibilities and maintain some control over my life in the event that I am braindead/in a coma/severely disabled/TBI.

Now, the extent to which you want to control these things is up to you. But I don't think having a negative net worth, or being young, should deter you. You can always update them, but getting them done first is always the hardest step.

CrustyBadger

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I think everyone who earns a salary should get short term and long term disability insurance regardless of whether anyone is dependent on them.  If your work offers a sick leave bank or you have a lot of sick leave banked up you might be able to do without short term disability  if you have a decent emergency fund, but if you are young the cost of disability insurance is really affordable.

Some people just assume that if they becomes disabled, they will qualify for government programs, but in the US at least it takes quite a while to get SSDI, and many people are denied the first time they apply.   

CrustyBadger

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I spent part of today gathering up information about all my various pension plans.  In my career I have worked long enough to vest in a couple different plans in different school districts.  Nothing much in any one place, but it all adds up.  I found my different account numbers, located everything online and created online accounts with each of them to be able to update information online.  Several of the accounts still only have my maiden name so I printed out forms to update those and will send them in with certified copies of my marriage certificate.  I also need to update my beneficiaries as I wasn't married when I had these jobs and my parents are still listed as my beneficiaries!

This is a thing that has been on my mind for years but I never got around to doing it.  Seemed overwhelming to me but I got it all done in less than an hour.   

jooniFLORisploo

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Nice going, CrustyBadger!!!

So often what we think will be endless or too hard is neither :)
what a waste of a window i say

CrustyBadger

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Nice going, CrustyBadger!!!

So often what we think will be endless or too hard is neither :)

Indeed!!   In particular, so often what I think will require many frustrating phone calls, has been automated and put online!

I have always had a mild phone phobia.  I could make phone calls, just really really didn't like to.   Since my husband became disabled I have had to make a ton of phone calls on his behalf, and I think I've finally gotten over the inhibition.  Even so, when things are available online, it just makes it that much more convenient to get the taken care of.

mspym

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Ran the numbers and made the call to Vanguard yesterday about changing from the retail to the wholesale funds (not automatic in Australia). Even if I hit some capital gains tax, it pays for itself  by the time I FIRE and leaves me an additional year of living expenses by the time I can access Super. Printed out the form today, and I'll add the tax implications to the list I am handing off to the accountant at EOFY.

asauer

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I feel very adult.  Updated our wills/ estate plan this week and got 10 year term life.

Villanelle

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I am going to talk to DH about decreasing at least my life insurance.  (I'd likely decrease his as well, but I know that will be a much harder sell for him.)  I'm now--due to a move overseas--an unemployed housewife.  I'm in my early 40s.  We have no kids.  If I die, DH won't have the option of not working for a while, even if he wanted to, because he is in the military.  I think I have $400,000 in insurance.  Most of that is very cheap ($100k for $6.50/mo,), but I believe at least some of it is unnecessary.  I am going to propose dropping everything except that cheap $100k policy.  Access to that does go away when he leaves the military, however.  (This will probably happen in ~6 years, but could be longer.  Unlikely to be shorter.) That is going to be the part that will be tough to sell him on.  But in reality, I don't think there's any need for any insurance on me.  I'm certainly not a profligate spender, but I spend more than he does, so he will actually come out ahead without the financial drag of a non-working spouse!

We'll see how it goes.  If he's receptive, I'll broach the subject of decreasing his, too.  He has a whole life policy and a term policy and I am dreading having to wade through canceling or reducing the whole life, but it will be worth it if I can get him on board.  I definitely need for him to have insurance, but not that much.