Poll

Will you pledge not to fly in 2019?

Yes, I pledge not fly at all in 2019
13 (22.8%)
I pledge not to fly for personal or family reasons but my employer may require me to fly for work
3 (5.3%)
I pledge not to fly for personal or family reasons but I am self employed and may fly for my work
0 (0%)
I pledge not to fly for personal reasons but may have to fly for work or family reasons
1 (1.8%)
I'm going to fly for whatever reason I like
40 (70.2%)

Total Members Voted: 57

Voting closes: September 27, 2019, 05:44:22 AM

Author Topic: Flight free in 2019  (Read 1231 times)

former player

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Flight free in 2019
« on: December 01, 2018, 04:44:22 AM »
Here's a link to a BBC story about a campaign in Sweden asking people to pledge not to fly in 2019.  Flight free in 2019

We are here with MMM for optimising finances, living better lives and saving the planet.  Not flying can help meet all of those aims.  Who is with me on pledging not to fly in 2019?

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Re: Flight free in 2019
« Reply #1 on: December 01, 2018, 09:59:03 AM »
Funnily enough Ive just posted about the topic of flying in my journal this week. Yes Im in. I pledge not to fly in 2019 and I'm contemplating possibly never again.

If work ask me to fly I think I may tell them where to go as I didnt want to vote for your second category!
« Last Edit: December 01, 2018, 10:14:50 AM by never give up »

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Re: Flight free in 2019
« Reply #2 on: December 01, 2018, 10:50:15 AM »
I'll be flying 4-6 times a week, thanks to work.

Recreationally we have a wedding that's 1200 miles away, and might take a trip down to New Orleans or Nashville in the spring.

Strong possibility of a flight to Poland to visit 94 year old grandfather as well.

I guess you could put me down for the last option.

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Re: Flight free in 2019
« Reply #3 on: December 01, 2018, 12:16:47 PM »
Definitely zero chance of personal flying, haven't done since 2013.

Work is partly luck of the draw with customer locations and whether on-site delivery is required, although I've managed to avoid it since 2015. Have been a few trips within the UK where I've deliberately chosen the train. Will continue to sound as unenthusiastic as possible about foreign trips (although that probably just means someone else would go instead).

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Re: Flight free in 2019
« Reply #4 on: December 01, 2018, 04:46:55 PM »
I felt guilty after reading this post because I do plan to fly in 2019.   I have become mostly vegetarian this year (5 days a week on average) for environmental reasons.  So I asked google to compare the two.  Heres what The Guardian newspaper said:

A vegan diet is probably the single biggest way to reduce your impact on planet Earth, not just greenhouse gases, but global acidification, eutrophication, land use and water use, said Joseph Poore, at the University of Oxford, UK, who led the research. It is far bigger than cutting down on your flights or buying an electric car, he said, as these only cut greenhouse gas emissions.

So I dont feel quite as guilty, although of course I realize it would be best to not fly and to be vegetarian.

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Re: Flight free in 2019
« Reply #5 on: December 03, 2018, 06:35:23 AM »
I will fly a couple times but that's it and only when its not feasible for various reasons to drive.

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Re: Flight free in 2019
« Reply #6 on: December 03, 2018, 07:08:21 AM »
I felt guilty after reading this post because I do plan to fly in 2019.   I have become mostly vegetarian this year (5 days a week on average) for environmental reasons.  So I asked google to compare the two.  Heres what The Guardian newspaper said:

A vegan diet is probably the single biggest way to reduce your impact on planet Earth, not just greenhouse gases, but global acidification, eutrophication, land use and water use, said Joseph Poore, at the University of Oxford, UK, who led the research. It is far bigger than cutting down on your flights or buying an electric car, he said, as these only cut greenhouse gas emissions.

So I dont feel quite as guilty, although of course I realize it would be best to not fly and to be vegetarian.

Perhaps you could start a vegan challenge in 2019?  (Or a vegetarian one, although that is not as environmentally friendly as vegan, unless you are looking at limiting yourself to truly sustainably produced eggs and dairy).

If you are in the USA, of course, your footprint on the earth is heavier than most even without flying or eating meat, because of the structure of the society in which you live.  Mine in the UK is still heavy for the same societal reasons, but not as bad.

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Re: Flight free in 2019
« Reply #7 on: December 03, 2018, 07:17:23 AM »
I haven't flown since 2015 and would be happy to never fly again. I flew all over the world before that (air force brat, personal travel, work and family reasons). I used to enjoy it, but now I hate the process/anxiety associated with that mode of travel. I much prefer cars, boats and trains and will continue to avoid flying as much as possible.

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Re: Flight free in 2019
« Reply #8 on: December 03, 2018, 08:06:01 AM »
The world mocks Americans for not visiting other countries. (Many don't even have a passport.) There aren't that many we can (safely) visit without a flight. Certainly, I'm not driving through Mexico to get to South America.

So I'll continue flying- for work, and travel. Next year I am going to Canada and Spain.  And work will require at least 4 trips.

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Re: Flight free in 2019
« Reply #9 on: December 05, 2018, 05:55:17 AM »
We have zero personal trips that require flying in 2019. I am actually happy about that as I am not a big fan of flying anyways. I will say however, because of health issues, really long road trips are hard on my body. As much as I would love give up flying, it's not really practical considering our future goals of traveling more.

Hirondelle

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Re: Flight free in 2019
« Reply #10 on: December 05, 2018, 07:06:03 AM »
I felt guilty after reading this post because I do plan to fly in 2019.   I have become mostly vegetarian this year (5 days a week on average) for environmental reasons.  So I asked google to compare the two.  Heres what The Guardian newspaper said:

A vegan diet is probably the single biggest way to reduce your impact on planet Earth, not just greenhouse gases, but global acidification, eutrophication, land use and water use, said Joseph Poore, at the University of Oxford, UK, who led the research. It is far bigger than cutting down on your flights or buying an electric car, he said, as these only cut greenhouse gas emissions.

So I dont feel quite as guilty, although of course I realize it would be best to not fly and to be vegetarian.

Perhaps you could start a vegan challenge in 2019?  (Or a vegetarian one, although that is not as environmentally friendly as vegan, unless you are looking at limiting yourself to truly sustainably produced eggs and dairy).

If you are in the USA, of course, your footprint on the earth is heavier than most even without flying or eating meat, because of the structure of the society in which you live.  Mine in the UK is still heavy for the same societal reasons, but not as bad.

The problem with the vegan/flying comparison is that it 100% depends on your starting point. The average person in most western countries contributes more emissions/impact by eating meat/dairy than by flying. However, MANY people don't fly at all or only take 1 annual domestic flight while the full-vegan or even 'just vegetarian' part of the population is rather small, so you can see that the very low numbers here skew those averages a lot. For me personally my flying behavior of the last year added a full 'earth' to my footprint when using a footprint calculator (I'm at 2.2 earths/year, 3.6 national average for my country, 4.8 USA-average). So I could pat myself on the back for further reducing my already sparse cheese consumption, but that international flight I took has a 10x bigger effect.

I'd recommend you to check out a footprint calculator and see what your 'big hits' are regarding reductions. Flying is an easy one, so just take the trips you planned for and when planning a new one consider a no-fly option :).

The world mocks Americans for not visiting other countries. (Many don't even have a passport.) There aren't that many we can (safely) visit without a flight. Certainly, I'm not driving through Mexico to get to South America.

I agree that it's a pity that Americans can't get to many countries without a flight. I do think it's weird to mention mocking by other countries' citizens as an excuse to keep traveling. One way to reduce flying could be to have fewer but longer trips and/or to combine work trips with personal trips.



Personally, I struggle with this one as I have lived on 3 different continents resulting in my friends being all over the place. I'm not so sure if I can make the pledge for no flying at all. For 2018 I was planning on not leaving the continent but failed when a good friend invited me over to his exotically located summer job which also enabled me to visit several other friends in that country. For 2019 I have no trips planned yet, but work might require me to take a very-far-away-trip, which I then also would use for personal vacation/visiting friends in that area.

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Re: Flight free in 2019
« Reply #11 on: December 05, 2018, 07:30:42 AM »

The world mocks Americans for not visiting other countries. (Many don't even have a passport.) There aren't that many we can (safely) visit without a flight. Certainly, I'm not driving through Mexico to get to South America.

I agree that it's a pity that Americans can't get to many countries without a flight. I do think it's weird to mention mocking by other countries' citizens as an excuse to keep traveling. One way to reduce flying could be to have fewer but longer trips and/or to combine work trips with personal trips.



I'm only saying it seems to be a double standard to mock Americans for not traveling, but then suggest they not travel.  (Of course, the original pledge only dealt with Sweden, so that isn't exactly what happened.)

I don't have an 'excuse' for traveling- my reason for travel is to expose myself to other areas of the world and ways of life. My -excuse- for flying is that there is no other way to safely get there.

As for having fewer but longer trips, it isn't possible when I can only be out of work for 5 days at a time.  My work doesn't travel internationally, nor can I take my children, so I can't combine the trips.

There is PLENTY to explore in the United States, you could spend a lifetime doing it and not see it all. But there are other places to see too, and I think it is a disservice to never go to them because I was born here.    I do other things to reduce my carbon footprint as best I can.

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Re: Flight free in 2019
« Reply #12 on: December 05, 2018, 11:59:43 AM »
I get what you're saying I'm a red panda. Hope I didn't come off too snarky :). It's actually an interesting paradox as I've also read that Americans fly the most per capita (not sure where I got this statistic from), but that might be mostly domestically then? Tons of people living far from family and flying over for holidays and such.

For the no passport thing; Europeans also don't need passports to travel within Europe/EU so I know plenty of people who don't have them. We're just damn lucky to be a bunch of tiny countries so it's almost hard to never go abroad. My parents once ended up "abroad" by simply missing their correct exit from the highway and not paying attention for a few minutes :p.

It sounds pretty frustrated to not be able to be out of work for more than 5 days at a time though. Does that literally mean you fly to Spain for 5 days only? That doesn't even sound appealing to me with the jetlags! For contrast, in my job (and maybe in the whole country but am not sure about it) I am obliged to take of at least 2 consecutive weeks at least once a year. This to ensure your mental health and force you into the option of letting work go for a bit.

I'm a red panda

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Re: Flight free in 2019
« Reply #13 on: December 05, 2018, 12:04:17 PM »

It sounds pretty frustrated to not be able to be out of work for more than 5 days at a time though. Does that literally mean you fly to Spain for 5 days only? That doesn't even sound appealing to me with the jetlags! For contrast, in my job (and maybe in the whole country but am not sure about it) I am obliged to take of at least 2 consecutive weeks at least once a year. This to ensure your mental health and force you into the option of letting work go for a bit.

Well, usually I add a weekend on either end, so 9 days of vacation time.  For Spain, we will go in the winter, which is less than ideal, but my company has a 1 week shut down, so I can get (with weekends) 16 total days with those 5 days off work.  But it also means I'm stuck going places when it is cold, or going to the Southern Hemisphere, which we aren't quite ready for those insanely long flights with a toddler and a baby.

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Re: Flight free in 2019
« Reply #14 on: December 05, 2018, 12:55:15 PM »
I'll be flying 4-6 times a week, thanks to work.
Are you commuting by plane?

dmc

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Re: Flight free in 2019
« Reply #15 on: December 06, 2018, 03:52:09 PM »
I fly every chance I get.  I own a plane.  Why is this any different from other forms of transportation?

I rarely fly commercial, I will on a few long trips or if the weather looks bad.

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Re: Flight free in 2019
« Reply #16 on: December 07, 2018, 12:12:16 AM »
I fly every chance I get.  I own a plane.  Why is this any different from other forms of transportation?

I rarely fly commercial, I will on a few long trips or if the weather looks bad.

Because flying is very, very polluting for the environment. Much more than going somewhere by car or public transport. Besides that, for most people flying to their holiday destination is easier to cut out than let's say their 20 mile commute to work. Finding another destintion for your trip is simple, moving closer to work/finding another job quite a hassle.

2Birds1Stone

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Re: Flight free in 2019
« Reply #17 on: December 07, 2018, 04:04:32 AM »
I'll be flying 4-6 times a week, thanks to work.
Are you commuting by plane?

Sort of. I fly all over the country to client sites.

dmc

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Re: Flight free in 2019
« Reply #18 on: December 07, 2018, 06:37:59 AM »
I fly every chance I get.  I own a plane.  Why is this any different from other forms of transportation?

I rarely fly commercial, I will on a few long trips or if the weather looks bad.

Because flying is very, very polluting for the environment. Much more than going somewhere by car or public transport. Besides that, for most people flying to their holiday destination is easier to cut out than let's say their 20 mile commute to work. Finding another destintion for your trip is simple, moving closer to work/finding another job quite a hassle.

My fuel usage in the plane is not much more than my car, and I can generally fly direct.  I dont see how that can cause more pollution.  I dont work so all my trips are generally for pleasure.  By flying I save time, that is very important to me.  And the recent commercial flights I have been on have been full, so fuel burned per passenger should be considered.


RWD

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Re: Flight free in 2019
« Reply #19 on: December 07, 2018, 07:10:34 AM »
I fly every chance I get.  I own a plane.  Why is this any different from other forms of transportation?

I rarely fly commercial, I will on a few long trips or if the weather looks bad.

Because flying is very, very polluting for the environment. Much more than going somewhere by car or public transport. Besides that, for most people flying to their holiday destination is easier to cut out than let's say their 20 mile commute to work. Finding another destintion for your trip is simple, moving closer to work/finding another job quite a hassle.

My fuel usage in the plane is not much more than my car, and I can generally fly direct.  I don’t see how that can cause more pollution.  I don’t work so all my trips are generally for pleasure.  By flying I save time, that is very important to me.  And the recent commercial flights I have been on have been full, so fuel burned per passenger should be considered.

Looks like a 737 emits 0.19 pounds of CO2 per passenger per mile. If I'm doing the conversion correctly, our Porsche emits 0.20 pounds per passenger per mile (2 passengers). Something like a Honda Fit emits ~42% less. Still not a huge difference from flying, and if only one passenger is in the Fit then flying is more efficient. Though the bigger issue is probably the distances typically covered by flying than the method of travel itself.

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Re: Flight free in 2019
« Reply #20 on: December 07, 2018, 07:20:14 AM »
I fly every chance I get.  I own a plane.  Why is this any different from other forms of transportation?

I rarely fly commercial, I will on a few long trips or if the weather looks bad.

Because flying is very, very polluting for the environment. Much more than going somewhere by car or public transport. Besides that, for most people flying to their holiday destination is easier to cut out than let's say their 20 mile commute to work. Finding another destintion for your trip is simple, moving closer to work/finding another job quite a hassle.

Flying, except in rare cases, IS public transport.

Hirondelle

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Re: Flight free in 2019
« Reply #21 on: December 07, 2018, 07:22:09 AM »
I fly every chance I get.  I own a plane.  Why is this any different from other forms of transportation?

I rarely fly commercial, I will on a few long trips or if the weather looks bad.

Because flying is very, very polluting for the environment. Much more than going somewhere by car or public transport. Besides that, for most people flying to their holiday destination is easier to cut out than let's say their 20 mile commute to work. Finding another destintion for your trip is simple, moving closer to work/finding another job quite a hassle.

Flying, except in rare cases, IS public transport.

True, but I think it was clear I meant busses and trains here.

Watchmaker

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Re: Flight free in 2019
« Reply #22 on: December 07, 2018, 07:30:49 AM »
A vegan diet is probably the single biggest way to reduce your impact on planet Earth, not just greenhouse gases, but global acidification, eutrophication, land use and water use, said Joseph Poore, at the University of Oxford, UK, who led the research. It is far bigger than cutting down on your flights or buying an electric car, he said, as these only cut greenhouse gas emissions.

So I dont feel quite as guilty, although of course I realize it would be best to not fly and to be vegetarian.

The single best thing you can do for the environment is to not have children (or to have less children). And it isn't even remotely close.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/jul/12/want-to-fight-climate-change-have-fewer-children


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Re: Flight free in 2019
« Reply #23 on: December 07, 2018, 09:10:36 AM »
Flew often for the military. Then a decade later once for my civilian employer. That's enough for my lifetime. We will fly to Europe a couple of times eventually for fun travel. Would rather travel by car, bus or train as already mentioned up thread. We mostly stay close to home.

former player

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Re: Flight free in 2019
« Reply #24 on: December 07, 2018, 10:16:12 AM »
A vegan diet is probably the single biggest way to reduce your impact on planet Earth, not just greenhouse gases, but global acidification, eutrophication, land use and water use, said Joseph Poore, at the University of Oxford, UK, who led the research. It is far bigger than cutting down on your flights or buying an electric car, he said, as these only cut greenhouse gas emissions.

So I dont feel quite as guilty, although of course I realize it would be best to not fly and to be vegetarian.

The single best thing you can do for the environment is to not have children (or to have less children). And it isn't even remotely close.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/jul/12/want-to-fight-climate-change-have-fewer-children

As pointed out in relation to vegetarianism/veganism above, it's not either/or.  It's both.

Watchmaker

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Re: Flight free in 2019
« Reply #25 on: December 07, 2018, 10:51:14 AM »
A vegan diet is probably the single biggest way to reduce your impact on planet Earth, not just greenhouse gases, but global acidification, eutrophication, land use and water use, said Joseph Poore, at the University of Oxford, UK, who led the research. It is far bigger than cutting down on your flights or buying an electric car, he said, as these only cut greenhouse gas emissions.

So I dont feel quite as guilty, although of course I realize it would be best to not fly and to be vegetarian.

The single best thing you can do for the environment is to not have children (or to have less children). And it isn't even remotely close.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/jul/12/want-to-fight-climate-change-have-fewer-children

As pointed out in relation to vegetarianism/veganism above, it's not either/or.  It's both.

Agreed, but the impacts of the two are on a completely different scale.

For my health, I could eat an extra serving of vegetables once a month, or I could stop eating a whole extra large sausage pizza for each meal. They aren't mutually exclusive, but the effects differ by orders of magnitude.

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Re: Flight free in 2019
« Reply #26 on: December 07, 2018, 11:09:13 AM »
The single best thing you can do for the environment is to not have children (or to have less children). And it isn't even remotely close. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/jul/12/want-to-fight-climate-change-have-fewer-children
Yup, I thought it was interesting that the two people doing the flight free 2019 campaign both just had more kids.

bacchi

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Re: Flight free in 2019
« Reply #27 on: December 07, 2018, 11:15:49 AM »
I'll be flying 4-6 times a week, thanks to work.
Are you commuting by plane?

Sort of. I fly all over the country to client sites.

So you're in the plane at least every other day, including the weekends? How do you get any work done? That sounds horrible, no matter the pay.

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Re: Flight free in 2019
« Reply #28 on: December 07, 2018, 11:32:57 AM »
I'll be flying 4-6 times a week, thanks to work.
Are you commuting by plane?

Sort of. I fly all over the country to client sites.

So you're in the plane at least every other day, including the weekends? How do you get any work done? That sounds horrible, no matter the pay.
Sometimes I fly from NY to another state and back in the same day, often fly out Sunday night for a Monday morning meeting and fly back in the afternoon.

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former player

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Re: Flight free in 2019
« Reply #29 on: December 07, 2018, 11:57:14 AM »
The single best thing you can do for the environment is to not have children (or to have less children). And it isn't even remotely close. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/jul/12/want-to-fight-climate-change-have-fewer-children
Yup, I thought it was interesting that the two people doing the flight free 2019 campaign both just had more kids.


Maybe there should be a Throw Down the Gauntlet poll on having kids?  1) I'm not having any kids, 2) I'm not having any more kids, 3) I'm going to kill the kids I've already had 4) And then I'm going to eat them.

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Re: Flight free in 2019
« Reply #30 on: December 07, 2018, 12:29:28 PM »
The single best thing you can do for the environment is to not have children (or to have less children). And it isn't even remotely close. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/jul/12/want-to-fight-climate-change-have-fewer-children
Yup, I thought it was interesting that the two people doing the flight free 2019 campaign both just had more kids.


Maybe there should be a Throw Down the Gauntlet poll on having kids?  1) I'm not having any kids, 2) I'm not having any more kids, 3) I'm going to kill the kids I've already had 4) And then I'm going to eat them.

Save a cow, eat your offspring.

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Re: Flight free in 2019
« Reply #31 on: December 07, 2018, 12:31:01 PM »
I hate flying, I've done it once in the last 10 years and have no intention of doing it again if I can help it, so I'm in!

OurTown

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Re: Flight free in 2019
« Reply #32 on: December 07, 2018, 12:34:43 PM »
I have no plans to fly in 2019.  I will eat an extra fatty ribeye steak to compensate.

Hirondelle

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Re: Flight free in 2019
« Reply #33 on: December 07, 2018, 12:52:54 PM »
The single best thing you can do for the environment is to not have children (or to have less children). And it isn't even remotely close. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/jul/12/want-to-fight-climate-change-have-fewer-children
Yup, I thought it was interesting that the two people doing the flight free 2019 campaign both just had more kids.


Maybe there should be a Throw Down the Gauntlet poll on having kids?  1) I'm not having any kids, 2) I'm not having any more kids, 3) I'm going to kill the kids I've already had 4) And then I'm going to eat them.

Problem is, once you already had kids before you realized the environmental impract (assuming that would've changed your mind/the number of kids) there's not much you can do unless you're actually planning to eat them. So what's left is to try and reduce your own footprint/emissions + those of your kids and maybe inspire some others around you to do the same.

(Disclaimer; no kids currently, not planning on any atm)

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Re: Flight free in 2019
« Reply #34 on: December 07, 2018, 06:08:40 PM »
Here's a link to a BBC story about a campaign in Sweden asking people to pledge not to fly in 2019.  Flight free in 2019

We are here with MMM for optimising finances, living better lives and saving the planet.  Not flying can help meet all of those aims.  Who is with me on pledging not to fly in 2019?
Funny, we are planning a trip next year, and we'll be visiting Sweden!

AccidentalMiser

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Re: Flight free in 2019
« Reply #35 on: December 07, 2018, 07:42:34 PM »
I have no plans to fly in 2019.  I will eat an extra fatty ribeye steak to compensate.

I like you a lot.

I hate flying commercial but it doesn't have anything to do with the environment.  I'll fly if I want to get somewhere far away quickly, since that's just about the only way to do that particular thing.

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Re: Flight free in 2019
« Reply #36 on: December 08, 2018, 06:58:45 AM »
The world mocks Americans for not visiting other countries. (Many don't even have a passport.) There aren't that many we can (safely) visit without a flight. Certainly, I'm not driving through Mexico to get to South America.

I visit other countries, but we call them 'States' here. My state is a little bigger in area than England, where I lived for a couple years as a lad. Add Indiana and you've got the whole of the UK, which over there is technically four countries. From England you could cross the channel (width: 240mi to 35mi depending where you are) to visit a new country (or few). From IL you could cross the lake (avg width: 110 miles) to get to Michigan (okay you'd drive around the south tip, but ignore that).

I'm a fly-for-work. Not much choice to get to SF from IL in a reasonable time, especially for a 1-car family. In the winter. Flying for personal reasons, uhhh... Its over 10 years, I think.