Author Topic: Would you rather owe or get a refund?  (Read 18699 times)

kanga1622

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 421
Re: Would you rather owe or get a refund?
« Reply #50 on: March 29, 2016, 11:58:02 AM »
We used to owe every year on purpose. We had just enough side income that the SE tax was a pain. I increased my tax withholding from our W4 jobs and then saved a little on the side monthly. Typically we ended up owing $300-600 per year and had at least $1000 saved in case our estimates were off. It still felt like we got a little refund that way and we could get that money at a moment's notice rather than 2-6 weeks for the IRS deposit.

We currently have lots of pre-tax deductions and a very low AGI so we get money back every year and have no way to change that.

a1smith

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 360
  • Location: 44 15.478’N, 082 50.088’W
Re: Would you rather owe or get a refund?
« Reply #51 on: April 03, 2016, 01:52:33 PM »
This year, I owed $2100 and had to pay a $6 penalty.  I used the long calculation to reduce the tax penalty since I had a lot of withholding early in the year and not quite enough towards the end of the year.  The way I see it, it was a great deal.  I got a one year loan of $2100 for $6 of interest! 

TheThirstyStag

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 303
Re: Would you rather owe or get a refund?
« Reply #52 on: April 06, 2016, 11:34:20 AM »
I owed way too much this year (about $6k due to DW's boon of a consulting gig) and don't fall under one of the exception rules, so I can expect a penalty coming my way.

Does anyone know how much this penalty is? I assume some percent of your underpayment based on your tax bracket?

Inaya

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1644
  • Age: 39
  • Location: Land of Entrapment
Re: Would you rather owe or get a refund?
« Reply #53 on: April 06, 2016, 12:05:40 PM »
Refund. I don't like surprises wherein an surprise quantity of money is going from me to somebody else.


But I'd prefer a small refund to a large one.

jim555

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3245
Re: Would you rather owe or get a refund?
« Reply #54 on: April 06, 2016, 01:18:54 PM »
I try to owe a small amount.  I don't want to wait on my own money with a refund.

a1smith

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 360
  • Location: 44 15.478’N, 082 50.088’W
Re: Would you rather owe or get a refund?
« Reply #55 on: April 06, 2016, 10:14:50 PM »
I owed way too much this year (about $6k due to DW's boon of a consulting gig) and don't fall under one of the exception rules, so I can expect a penalty coming my way.

Does anyone know how much this penalty is? I assume some percent of your underpayment based on your tax bracket?

Yes, except not based on tax bracket.  Use Form 2210 to calculate penalty; there are three methods - short, regular, and annualized income installment.  If your DW's consulting income was late in the year then using the annualized income installment method will calculate lower penalty because you calculate the underpayment by quarter and pay interest for the amount of time underpayment existed.

All of the tax software packages will help calculate underpayment penalty.  If you let IRS do it for you they aren't going to use the annualized income installment method because they won't have the quarter by quarter info.

2015 Instructions for Form 2210

2015 Form 2210

wkumtrider

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 111
Re: Would you rather owe or get a refund?
« Reply #56 on: April 07, 2016, 11:30:18 AM »
I owed over $3000 to Federal.  Last year I owed around $2600.  Way too much.  I don't know much about taxes and how to adjust them each year to minimize how much you owe or get back.  I want to try to break even for 2016, but I don't know where to start.

nereo

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 17595
  • Location: Just south of Canada
    • Here's how you can support science today:
Re: Would you rather owe or get a refund?
« Reply #57 on: April 07, 2016, 11:45:40 AM »
I owed over $3000 to Federal.  Last year I owed around $2600.  Way too much.  I don't know much about taxes and how to adjust them each year to minimize how much you owe or get back.  I want to try to break even for 2016, but I don't know where to start.

If you are a typical employee (as opposed to self-employed or a business owner) you can adjust your withholdings on your W-4 form.  Simply put, if you increase your withholdings they will take more out of your paycheck, and you will owe less (or get a rebate) when you file your taxes.

This may help:
https://www.irs.gov/Individuals/IRS-Withholding-Calculator

Sibley

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 7493
  • Location: Northwest Indiana
Re: Would you rather owe or get a refund?
« Reply #58 on: April 08, 2016, 01:44:20 PM »
In my pre-FIRE days, I worked hard to stay as close to zero as possible. Drove HR crazy, which made me perversely happy. This year, we flipped a house and made good $$ on it. I know we're going to owe a butt-load of taxes, so I plan on filing (and paying) at the very last minute. Yeah, the cash is sitting in the bank, but I'm not too excited about sending it to Uncle Sam...FWP, indeed.

You can file at anytime, and should in fact file early if you can (helps cut down fraud risk), but you don't have to mail the check until April.

BTDretire

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3074
Re: Would you rather owe or get a refund?
« Reply #59 on: April 11, 2016, 02:28:23 PM »
Having a tax bill of more than $1000 doesn't mean you owe any penalties. Owing less than $1000 is a sufficient but not necessary condition to avoid penalties.

You can owe a ton of money and still owe nothing in penalties if any of the following apply:
  • You withheld/made payments of at least 100% of last year's tax liability (110% if your AGI last year was at least $150k). This one involves no guesswork on your part during the year about how much you should withhold/pay
  • The amount owed is less than 10% of your total tax liability for this year, and you made your estimated tax payment on time

That was me this year, I owed $2,732, but no penalty because I paid 100% of last years burden. I raised my quarterly payment by $2,732/ 4 = $683, so I'll automatically pay 100% of this year, next year.

free_fries

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 16
Re: Would you rather owe or get a refund?
« Reply #60 on: April 12, 2016, 10:30:55 PM »
Having a tax bill of more than $1000 doesn't mean you owe any penalties. Owing less than $1000 is a sufficient but not necessary condition to avoid penalties.

You can owe a ton of money and still owe nothing in penalties if any of the following apply:
  • You withheld/made payments of at least 100% of last year's tax liability (110% if your AGI last year was at least $150k). This one involves no guesswork on your part during the year about how much you should withhold/pay
  • The amount owed is less than 10% of your total tax liability for this year, and you made your estimated tax payment on time

That was me this year, I owed $2,732, but no penalty because I paid 100% of last years burden. I raised my quarterly payment by $2,732/ 4 = $683, so I'll automatically pay 100% of this year, next year.


That was me for the 2013 tax year!  Owed $5,338 - no penalty.  I was a full-time student for half of 2012 so my income more than doubled in 2013. I met the 100% threshold of the previous year's taxes early in 2013.  I then minimized my withholdings for the largest take home pay possible.  That in turn enabled me to pay off my student loan at 6.8% int by March 2014.   

Looking back I played it very close to the edge.  I submitted on April 15 around lunch -  my 4/15 paycheck's direct deposit was already in my available balance (they generally show up just after midnight).  Otherwise I would have been overdrawn.  I guess had something gone wrong I'm fortunate enough that I could have gotten an emergency instant transfer from mom and dad.

For 2014 tax year, I owed $364.
For 2015 tax year, I got $54 - zeroing in on that sweet spot.