Author Topic: Trump's tax plan  (Read 9290 times)

FI by 2035

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Trump's tax plan
« on: November 17, 2016, 08:04:51 AM »
This might be a stupid question, but I'm looking at planning for 2017.  Trump plans on making pretty significant changes to the tax brackets, but the IRS has already determined brackets for 2017.  Will his changes not start until 2018 or is it unknown at this point?  If I just use the currently posted brackets I would be safe either way since his plan will result in a lower tax bill for me, but I'm bored on surgery leave from work and trying to be a little productive.

seattlecyclone

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Re: Trump's tax plan
« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2016, 10:48:26 AM »
Nobody knows. Congresspeople will have to haggle over the details before any bill will pass. It's not uncommon for tax changes to be retroactive to the beginning of the year in which the bill was passed, but it's impossible to know for sure.

NoStacheOhio

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Re: Trump's tax plan
« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2016, 10:59:51 AM »
This might be a stupid question, but I'm looking at planning for 2017.  Trump plans on making pretty significant changes to the tax brackets, but the IRS has already determined brackets for 2017.  Will his changes not start until 2018 or is it unknown at this point?  If I just use the currently posted brackets I would be safe either way since his plan will result in a lower tax bill for me, but I'm bored on surgery leave from work and trying to be a little productive.

Like seattlecyclone said, nobody knows. Best to just plan using available information.

FI by 2035

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Re: Trump's tax plan
« Reply #3 on: November 17, 2016, 02:22:03 PM »
Thanks for the answers. I'll just use the available info and adjust if necessary.

gatorNic

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Re: Trump's tax plan
« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2016, 06:11:22 PM »
Well he doesn't get into office till Jan, then they will have to argue the heck out of it for awhile.  So you are definitely not going to see it effect your taxes for 2017.  They can't institute changes for a year they are already in.  2018 would be the earliest we'll see actual changes, even though we would know the details sometime in 2017

Cathy

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Re: Trump's tax plan
« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2016, 07:03:07 PM »
They can't institute changes for a year they are already in.

Or maybe they can. According to the Congressional Research Service ("CRS"), retroactive tax legislation is often constitutional. See Erika K. Lunder et al, Constitutionality of Retroactive Tax Legislation, CRS, Report No R42791 (Oct 25, 2012) (asserting that "[i]t is clear there is no absolute constitutional bar to retroactive tax legislation"). I express no view on the accuracy of the report.

MustacheAndaHalf

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Re: Trump's tax plan
« Reply #6 on: November 18, 2016, 08:18:17 PM »
The biggest suggested changes in the President Elect's tax plan are for AMT, which goes away, and to remove the net investment income tax of 3.8% on people with incomes over $200k ($250k married).  If you're at minimum wage, you rise into the new 12% tax bracket but have a larger deduction ($15k replaces $6k + $4k) so you probably are slightly ahead.
https://www.donaldjtrump.com/policies/tax-plan

The thing to be scared about is if you're a single parent relying on the "head of household" filing status, which that tax plan removes.  Congress hasn't discussed that yet, so it might be a good time to write to your Congress member if you're impacted as a "head of household" filer.

Now how likely is it?  Trump made a campaign promise to bring jobs back, and this tax plan lowers corporate tax rates to further that goal.  Congress has Republican majorities.  There are procedural moves to block it by Democrats, but this is a rather core piece of what Trump needs to accomplish.  Seems like it would have a strong chance of going through - but could always be modified by Congress.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2016, 08:20:22 PM by MustacheAndaHalf »

powskier

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Re: Trump's tax plan
« Reply #7 on: November 19, 2016, 12:14:19 AM »
The plan will be tremendous and the very best there is, very tremendous.
Isn't that enough for you?

RangerOne

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Re: Trump's tax plan
« Reply #8 on: November 21, 2016, 12:06:23 PM »
I have argued with at least a few people that are acting like this proposed tax plan would be exciting if implement for middle Americans. I just don't see it looking at the numbers.

If you are a normal tax payer already paying all their income tax at the 33% or lower mark which in reality is at least 99% of our households. Then you are very likely to see next to no change in your taxes with slight fluctuations up or down.

The tax brackets for single and married couples are being left virtually untouched with a trivial smoothing of the 10-15% into 12% and 25% left intact. A few higher income households will get dumped straight into 33% bracket instead of 28% but the added cushion of the standard deduction removes most of the impact.

That being said the removal of personal exemptions pretty much negates these benefits for any family with 2 or more kids. While single people and married couples with no kids and no home will see their tax liability drop a few thousand dollars. As others have mentioned head of house hold filers get absolutely shafted for no reason in the plans current state. I believe S Corp filers may get a lot of relief if the new corporate tax will effect them. I am not familiar with S Corp taxation.

I also suspect that the shift of personal exemption value to the standard deduction, which you must give up if you itemize, will remove most people incentive to itemize and hurt families with kids who used to see an advantage from itemizing when owning a home. Since I believe the personal exemptions used to still work even if you itemized. Not sure why no one talks about this but that seems like a huge slap in the face for family home owners, who in theory are supposed to be the priority of conservatives... I would be interested to hear if this is flawed logic and I am misunderstanding what they mean by eliminating personal exemptions.

By an large, assuming the above is all true, this is not tax relief for any working Americans at all, it is a mixed bag of tax hikes and minor relief for people without families which seems totally backwards and odd. It is pretty clear this is just another case of Repubs giving a tax break to the highest income individuals and corporations in an attempt to bolster investment and the economy, while trying to dress it up as something good by making the standard deduction look huge when really they are taking away a more equitable system.

If you are going to go for the Milton Friedman style of above board taxation you may as well eliminate corporate taxes all together and close out loop holes in the tax code allowing high income people to dodge progressive taxes. Then once all income taxes are coming from people as they effectively do anyway, we can reevaluate if some of those tax burdens should be evened out or lowered. I would think at the very least we would want to give an even tax cut to all brackets which this absolutely is not. Even knowing that proportionally the higher earners will net more money saved if given the same percent tax cut. At least that would jive with the statement of being a tax cut for all Americans.

The audacity of how they are selling these cuts is every bit as deceitful as the ACA telling people that their costs wont go up when they knew damn well that some peoples costs would rise especially in groups least deserving of bearing increased cost.

oldtoyota

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Re: Trump's tax plan
« Reply #9 on: November 21, 2016, 12:35:29 PM »
It's gonna be great. Great! Believe me, nothing will be greater than this.

Drifterrider

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Re: Trump's tax plan
« Reply #10 on: November 21, 2016, 12:42:50 PM »
It's gonna be great. Great! Believe me, nothing will be greater than this.

You forgot to add it will also be Uuuuuuuughe.

stoaX

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Re: Trump's tax plan
« Reply #11 on: November 21, 2016, 12:44:55 PM »
The biggest suggested changes in the President Elect's tax plan are for AMT, which goes away, and to remove the net investment income tax of 3.8% on people with incomes over $200k ($250k married).  If you're at minimum wage, you rise into the new 12% tax bracket but have a larger deduction ($15k replaces $6k + $4k) so you probably are slightly ahead.
https://www.donaldjtrump.com/policies/tax-plan

The thing to be scared about is if you're a single parent relying on the "head of household" filing status, which that tax plan removes.  Congress hasn't discussed that yet, so it might be a good time to write to your Congress member if you're impacted as a "head of household" filer.

Now how likely is it?  Trump made a campaign promise to bring jobs back, and this tax plan lowers corporate tax rates to further that goal.  Congress has Republican majorities.  There are procedural moves to block it by Democrats, but this is a rather core piece of what Trump needs to accomplish.  Seems like it would have a strong chance of going through - but could always be modified by Congress.

And then after that there will be further nuances as the IRS writes and implements the regulations.

algebracyco

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Re: Trump's tax plan
« Reply #12 on: November 21, 2016, 07:36:21 PM »

That being said the removal of personal exemptions pretty much negates these benefits for any family with 2 or more kids. While single people and married couples with no kids and no home will see their tax liability drop a few thousand dollars.

I agree RangerOne.  I have 2 young kids and file MFJ taking the standard deduction.  Looking at Trump's proposed $30k standard deduction is a marginal "savings" for my family ($12,600 current Standard deduction + 4 *$4,050 personal exemption = $28,800).  A difference of $1,200 times my marginal tax rate doesn't seem like the "HUGE" tax cut he keeps talking about.  It is even worse for families with more kids...

Cpa Cat

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Re: Trump's tax plan
« Reply #13 on: November 21, 2016, 08:12:03 PM »
If the changes to itemized and standard deductions actually go through, it will increase the benefit to accelerating mortgage payments and increase the potential benefits of donor advised funds for charitable deductions.

The only thing I'm toying with at end of year is paying my full property tax bill instead of half before Dec 31. One of the changes that has been tossed around is to get rid of the property tax deduction, and if that gets backdated for 2017, we could lose out.

I personally think there's no political or economic benefit to backdating tax changes to cover 2017, and it would create unnecessary pressure on the IRS. But who knows.

But I say... wait and see. It's hard to know exactly what's going to make it through congress.

bugbaby

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Re: Trump's tax plan
« Reply #14 on: November 23, 2016, 04:53:52 PM »
I agree. For me as a single parent, it will increase my liability by about 4.5k with standard deduction via the calculators on fool.com. especially if the personal exemptions for myself & 2kids are eliminated.  This actually gives me incentive to buy a home and increase charitable giving. This way I might itemize one year and do standard the next, since charitable donations can be lumped and deducted for upto 5 years. I'll also work harder to use up my annual education and business allowance at work for the same reason.

MoonLiteNite

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Re: Trump's tax plan
« Reply #15 on: November 23, 2016, 09:26:59 PM »
Doesn't his VP support fairtax? That would be pretty baller if that somehow gets pushed and actually gets voted on.
Keep 100% of your paycheck and invest as you see fit!

msilenus

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Re: Trump's tax plan
« Reply #16 on: November 23, 2016, 11:17:12 PM »
I also suspect that the shift of personal exemption value to the standard deduction, which you must give up if you itemize, will remove most people incentive to itemize and hurt families with kids who used to see an advantage from itemizing when owning a home. Since I believe the personal exemptions used to still work even if you itemized. Not sure why no one talks about this but that seems like a huge slap in the face for family home owners, who in theory are supposed to be the priority of conservatives... I would be interested to hear if this is flawed logic and I am misunderstanding what they mean by eliminating personal exemptions.

You forgot charitable contributions.  In lots of the country a MID doesn't eat up the 2016 standard deduction, so the effect would be muted --but if you're tithing, own your own home, and have 3+ kids, then your bill seems sure to go up.

Sad!

hogfanboy

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Re: Trump's tax plan
« Reply #17 on: November 25, 2016, 07:15:52 PM »
I wonder if a new plan happens similar to what is proposed
Would there be  more cases  where  Married  filing  separately might make sense.
lump all the deductions over to one spouse might get past the standard deduction a little easier?

Cpa Cat

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Re: Trump's tax plan
« Reply #18 on: November 25, 2016, 08:56:17 PM »
I wonder if a new plan happens similar to what is proposed
Would there be  more cases  where  Married  filing  separately might make sense.
lump all the deductions over to one spouse might get past the standard deduction a little easier?

When Married Filing Separately, if one spouse itemizes then the other spouse is forced to itemize too.

Metric Mouse

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Re: Trump's tax plan
« Reply #19 on: November 28, 2016, 07:27:51 AM »
I wonder if a new plan happens similar to what is proposed
Would there be  more cases  where  Married  filing  separately might make sense.
lump all the deductions over to one spouse might get past the standard deduction a little easier?

When Married Filing Separately, if one spouse itemizes then the other spouse is forced to itemize too.

Yeah - the IRS has already thought of this.

Mostly posting to follow.

RangerOne

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Re: Trump's tax plan
« Reply #20 on: November 28, 2016, 12:13:21 PM »
This tax plan would readily make more sense if they simply kept head of household, and removed exemptions for adults while leaving exemptions for children alone.

However I suspect that the reason something like this wasn't done was simply because they would lose too much income on top of the already generous slashing of the top tax bracket.

bacchi

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Re: Trump's tax plan
« Reply #21 on: November 30, 2016, 10:32:25 AM »
This tax plan would readily make more sense if they simply kept head of household, and removed exemptions for adults while leaving exemptions for children alone.

However I suspect that the reason something like this wasn't done was simply because they would lose too much income on top of the already generous slashing of the top tax bracket.

With lowered tax revenue and the promise for more infrastructure and military spending, where have all the deficit hawks gone?

RangerOne

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Re: Trump's tax plan
« Reply #22 on: November 30, 2016, 12:34:10 PM »
This tax plan would readily make more sense if they simply kept head of household, and removed exemptions for adults while leaving exemptions for children alone.

However I suspect that the reason something like this wasn't done was simply because they would lose too much income on top of the already generous slashing of the top tax bracket.

With lowered tax revenue and the promise for more infrastructure and military spending, where have all the deficit hawks gone?

You would think if they proposed tax cuts they would offer up at least enough budget cuts to keep a static deficit. The Repubs seem to like offering tax breaks while cutting next to no spending in major programs and increasing spending on defense. Always seemed pretty dishonest to me.

At least the Dems offer to increase taxes to pay for their ever expanding government bloat.

Then again I have also heard the theory that the only way to get the government to spend less is to give them less money. But with the potential to manipulate inflation with the federal reserve and mess with our deficit even this is no guarantee on curbing spending.

The budget hawks are which ever party isn't in control of the budget.

ysette9

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Re: Trump's tax plan
« Reply #23 on: November 30, 2016, 12:41:36 PM »
Quote
With lowered tax revenue and the promise for more infrastructure and military spending, where have all the deficit hawks gone?

They are having margaritas at the same offshore island paradise they were at during the Bush II years.

msilenus

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Re: Trump's tax plan
« Reply #24 on: November 30, 2016, 01:38:57 PM »
Quote
With lowered tax revenue and the promise for more infrastructure and military spending, where have all the deficit hawks gone?

They are having margaritas at the same offshore island paradise they were at during the Bush II years.
... and the Reagan/Bush-I years. 

You'd think the electorate would wise up eventually, but we're 36 years into this game, and anyone who can even remember a time when a Republican was President before it started is middle-aged --so it's probably smarter to assume it can go on forever at this point.

BigDnTtown

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Re: Trump's tax plan
« Reply #25 on: December 08, 2016, 07:53:31 AM »
I am in the four kids, tithe and mortgage interest camp :(

kayvent

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Re: Trump's tax plan
« Reply #26 on: December 08, 2016, 08:36:57 AM »
This tax plan would readily make more sense if they simply kept head of household, and removed exemptions for adults while leaving exemptions for children alone.

However I suspect that the reason something like this wasn't done was simply because they would lose too much income on top of the already generous slashing of the top tax bracket.

With lowered tax revenue and the promise for more infrastructure and military spending, where have all the deficit hawks gone?

You would think if they proposed tax cuts they would offer up at least enough budget cuts to keep a static deficit. The Repubs seem to like offering tax breaks while cutting next to no spending in major programs and increasing spending on defense. Always seemed pretty dishonest to me.

At least the Dems offer to increase taxes to pay for their ever expanding government bloat.

Then again I have also heard the theory that the only way to get the government to spend less is to give them less money. But with the potential to manipulate inflation with the federal reserve and mess with our deficit even this is no guarantee on curbing spending.

The budget hawks are which ever party isn't in control of the budget.

You may have a misunderstanding of how some Republicans view the world. As a quick overview, the Laffer Curve hypothesizes that at some tax rates, tax revenue can increase if you lower taxes and decrease if you lower them. Another bedrock theory is that if you lower tax rates, people will invest and spend more thus stimulating the economy and growing revenues (you hear this in the phrase "growing the pie"). The implicit idea being that the lower rates on the bigger pie will generate more revenue than high rates on a smaller economy.

Another popular theory that the Trump camp is not participating in, again (mis)attributed to Laffer, is to lower taxes and systematically cut loopholes to the same level. The idea not being to raise revenues but to make the tax code simpler so people spend waste less money and time finding more efficient routes though it. Trump's plan sounds like this on the surface but as this thread and others have talked about, the loophole cutting isn't precise enough (I think this is one of the points that Ryan will debate & fight with the Trump administration on).
« Last Edit: December 08, 2016, 08:39:31 AM by kayvent »

msilenus

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Re: Trump's tax plan
« Reply #27 on: December 08, 2016, 09:30:14 AM »
You may have a misunderstanding of how some Republicans view the world. As a quick overview, the Laffer Curve hypothesizes that at some tax rates, tax revenue can increase if you lower taxes and decrease if you lower them.

This is true, as stated, but it is far too generous.  It is complete kookery to believe this idea is applicable to the U.S. at current rates.  There are not many economic statements that touch on current politics and which are noncontroversial among professional economists.  This is one of them.

http://www.igmchicago.org/surveys/laffer-curve
« Last Edit: December 08, 2016, 09:43:44 AM by msilenus »

OurTown

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Re: Trump's tax plan
« Reply #28 on: December 09, 2016, 09:41:19 AM »
Doesn't his VP support fairtax? That would be pretty baller if that somehow gets pushed and actually gets voted on.
Keep 100% of your paycheck and invest as you see fit!

You know, even though fair tax is supposed to be a conservative wet dream, it actually has the beginnings of a back door universal basic income in the form of the "pre-bate," which is essentially supposed to be a rebate of the sales tax for poverty level consumption. 

NoStacheOhio

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Re: Trump's tax plan
« Reply #29 on: December 09, 2016, 09:44:43 AM »
Doesn't his VP support fairtax? That would be pretty baller if that somehow gets pushed and actually gets voted on.
Keep 100% of your paycheck and invest as you see fit!

You know, even though fair tax is supposed to be a conservative wet dream, it actually has the beginnings of a back door universal basic income in the form of the "pre-bate," which is essentially supposed to be a rebate of the sales tax for poverty level consumption.

Anyone have a quick explainer on this? I haven't heard of it.

GoingConcern

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Re: Trump's tax plan
« Reply #30 on: December 09, 2016, 09:49:22 AM »
I like the idea of increasing the standard deduction since it will make taxes easier for most Americans since the incentive of itemizing will be reduced for many.  Granted my opinion is skewed because I am also looking to buy a house in the next few years and I am hoping the rising interest rates and less tax incentives will help stabilize if not drive prices down (most studies have shown that tax incentives do incentivize poeple to buy a more expensive home.)  However, with the limited supply of housing in many areas in the country prices many continue to rise.   

But removing personal exemptions and filing stats of head of households will have have a large effect on many middle-class Americans.

seattlecyclone

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Re: Trump's tax plan
« Reply #31 on: December 09, 2016, 10:44:58 AM »
Doesn't his VP support fairtax? That would be pretty baller if that somehow gets pushed and actually gets voted on.
Keep 100% of your paycheck and invest as you see fit!

You know, even though fair tax is supposed to be a conservative wet dream, it actually has the beginnings of a back door universal basic income in the form of the "pre-bate," which is essentially supposed to be a rebate of the sales tax for poverty level consumption.

Anyone have a quick explainer on this? I haven't heard of it.

The basic idea of the "fair tax" is that you replace most federal taxes (income tax, payroll taxes, estate/gift taxes) with a rather high sales tax on all goods and services. You also send a check to each family, meant to equal the amount of tax that is paid on poverty-level spending for their family size. People whose spending is right around the poverty line would then pay no net tax to the federal government, while those who earn average or higher wages and spend most of it would generally find themselves taxed more heavily than today.

NoStacheOhio

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Re: Trump's tax plan
« Reply #32 on: December 09, 2016, 11:30:21 AM »
The basic idea of the "fair tax" is that you replace most federal taxes (income tax, payroll taxes, estate/gift taxes) with a rather high sales tax on all goods and services. You also send a check to each family, meant to equal the amount of tax that is paid on poverty-level spending for their family size. People whose spending is right around the poverty line would then pay no net tax to the federal government, while those who earn average or higher wages and spend most of it would generally find themselves taxed more heavily than today.

OK ... that's an interesting definition of fair. How are we defining "poverty spending?" AFAIK FPL is a measure of income, not spending.

Would groceries still be tax free? Just trying to wrap my brain around this concept on a micro level.

Felicity

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Re: Trump's tax plan
« Reply #33 on: December 09, 2016, 12:06:19 PM »
... and increase the potential benefits of donor advised funds for charitable deductions.

Can you speak to this more?

OurTown

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Re: Trump's tax plan
« Reply #34 on: December 09, 2016, 12:09:47 PM »
Here is the link to the proponents' FAQ page:  http://fairtax.org/faq

It's an interesting scheme.  In theory, the individual controls how much tax he/she pays by controlling his/her consumer spending.  The appeal to the conservative crowd is that everyone pays in and it eliminates the graduated rate system in the current income tax code.  I very much doubt that it is revenue neutral, which is one of the claims on the FAQ site.  I suspect that if this was ever adopted it would be amended to increase the "pre-bate" and they would likely raise the rate on "luxury" items, whatever those are.

NoStacheOhio

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Re: Trump's tax plan
« Reply #35 on: December 09, 2016, 12:23:29 PM »
Here is the link to the proponents' FAQ page:  http://fairtax.org/faq

It's an interesting scheme.  In theory, the individual controls how much tax he/she pays by controlling his/her consumer spending.  The appeal to the conservative crowd is that everyone pays in and it eliminates the graduated rate system in the current income tax code.  I very much doubt that it is revenue neutral, which is one of the claims on the FAQ site.  I suspect that if this was ever adopted it would be amended to increase the "pre-bate" and they would likely raise the rate on "luxury" items, whatever those are.

OK, reading the first FAQ point ... they're calling sales tax progressive, and it just isn't. Even with a "pre-bate," which is a term offensive to my inner copy editor.

RangerOne

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Re: Trump's tax plan
« Reply #36 on: December 09, 2016, 04:06:57 PM »
This tax plan would readily make more sense if they simply kept head of household, and removed exemptions for adults while leaving exemptions for children alone.

However I suspect that the reason something like this wasn't done was simply because they would lose too much income on top of the already generous slashing of the top tax bracket.

With lowered tax revenue and the promise for more infrastructure and military spending, where have all the deficit hawks gone?

You would think if they proposed tax cuts they would offer up at least enough budget cuts to keep a static deficit. The Repubs seem to like offering tax breaks while cutting next to no spending in major programs and increasing spending on defense. Always seemed pretty dishonest to me.

At least the Dems offer to increase taxes to pay for their ever expanding government bloat.

Then again I have also heard the theory that the only way to get the government to spend less is to give them less money. But with the potential to manipulate inflation with the federal reserve and mess with our deficit even this is no guarantee on curbing spending.

The budget hawks are which ever party isn't in control of the budget.

You may have a misunderstanding of how some Republicans view the world. As a quick overview, the Laffer Curve hypothesizes that at some tax rates, tax revenue can increase if you lower taxes and decrease if you lower them. Another bedrock theory is that if you lower tax rates, people will invest and spend more thus stimulating the economy and growing revenues (you hear this in the phrase "growing the pie"). The implicit idea being that the lower rates on the bigger pie will generate more revenue than high rates on a smaller economy.

Another popular theory that the Trump camp is not participating in, again (mis)attributed to Laffer, is to lower taxes and systematically cut loopholes to the same level. The idea not being to raise revenues but to make the tax code simpler so people spend waste less money and time finding more efficient routes though it. Trump's plan sounds like this on the surface but as this thread and others have talked about, the loophole cutting isn't precise enough (I think this is one of the points that Ryan will debate & fight with the Trump administration on).

I get the standard arguments about Republican tax plans. Yes you could bring in more revenue even with a lower income tax if you actually got people currently using the tax code to avoid taxes to pay them. In theory also if you raise a marginal tax rate to high and leave people options to avoid it they will likely use those options.

You could possibly justify only cutting the top marginal tax rate as we are seeing here. But it would be nice if they were being honest about it. As opposed to trying to sell it as some kind of middle class tax break. I likely don't have the economic chops to debate whether the conservative theory of trickle down really works given all the right regulations. I only know enough to know that well qualified and reasonable economists will disagree given the state of our current system. The only part of this tax plan that probably has any real chance of souring growth is the lowering of the corporate tax rate.

Trumps tax plan more or less got watered down to a Republican tax plan once it was rolled into his campaign platform. So it isn't his as much as its the Republicans. Every primary candidates plan was pretty similar except for the minority of flat taxers. Trumps original was the most aggressive cut I believe that was still a standard progressive tax.  His original plan was a much larger cut middle class tax brackets which not surprisingly got scaled back to the point of being meaningless.

RangerOne

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Re: Trump's tax plan
« Reply #37 on: December 09, 2016, 04:24:13 PM »
Here is the link to the proponents' FAQ page:  http://fairtax.org/faq

It's an interesting scheme.  In theory, the individual controls how much tax he/she pays by controlling his/her consumer spending.  The appeal to the conservative crowd is that everyone pays in and it eliminates the graduated rate system in the current income tax code.  I very much doubt that it is revenue neutral, which is one of the claims on the FAQ site.  I suspect that if this was ever adopted it would be amended to increase the "pre-bate" and they would likely raise the rate on "luxury" items, whatever those are.

OK, reading the first FAQ point ... they're calling sales tax progressive, and it just isn't. Even with a "pre-bate," which is a term offensive to my inner copy editor.

I would consider a general sales tax on all goods regressive. Since the fixed rate hurts you less as you make more money. I don't see how you could interpret that any other way.

Perhaps they were talking more about things like  a special luxury consumption taxes on goods most low income people wont be buying anyway?

At least for me from a purely philosophical stand point I think a progressive tax on something like income is more fair than a flat tax (assuming we think any kind of income tax at all is fair). In theory all we are doing with a progressive income tax is asking our most talented and able body people to carry a more of the burden of maintaining our government. Just as we wouldn't mind asking a young strong man to carry some extra groceries to help an 80 year old women couldn't.

The danger of course if you make things to easy for those who aren't producing simply because they are lazy then that is unfair. However I don't think any tax plan can address that issue entirely. That also has components that are based in culture, education and our social construct. If we are trying to get more people to earn their keep, tax and welfare reform is just one piece of the puzzle.

But back to progressive taxes I think there is a tone of room for argument about how to make it more fair or how to encourage job creation, investment and growth.