Author Topic: Mil member deploying: Sell new taxable shares in favor of 10% guarantee? Or...  (Read 1523 times)

browne497

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Hello,

I recently found myself with an excess of cash and was finally able to make a contribution to a taxable brokerage account with Betterment. The contribution was $5k and made in December 2020. Well this week I got news that I would be deploying to a tax free Combat Zone country some time this year. My question is should I sell my holdings with Betterment now in favor of utilizing the Savings Deposit Program (guaranteed 10% return)?

The balance has only grown to $5,160 since December so I can't imagine the tax implications of selling would be much but I have very little experience with taxable investment accounts given that this was the first time I had excess cash in addition to already being in position to max out my Roth IRA and Roth TSP (401k) for the year. If I do sell, I plan to invest the maximum allowed $10k in the SDP for the duration of my deployment.

Would it be better to sell and then max out my Roth IRA early first before touching SDP? I'm really just looking for clarity on what I should expect in way of taxes when the time comes and which account I should prioritize while down range.

Also, for extra info, my taxable income this year under normal circumstances would be a little over $40k. Typically deployments are anywhere from 3-6 months months so that would lower my taxable income anywhere from a fourth to half of that amount. I also plan to convert my traditional IRA balance to my Roth IRA account while deployed. I expect to max out my Roth TSP and Roth IRA contributions for the year already through dollar cost averaging but am open to knocking out the Roth IRA early or putting as much tax-free income into my Roth TSP during this time as possible if that's a more beneficial route.

If any other information would be helpful, please let me know. Thanks in advance to the tax wizards of the forum.

terran

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I don't know anything about the program you're discussing, but if it's a guaranteed 10% return then I would absolutely put as much as I could in that as soon and for as long as I could. I'd also sell from taxable to invest in Roth IRA if I couldn't afford to contribute directly in pretty short order, although waiting until the end of the year if there are tax questions you don't know the answers until then would be reasonable too. @Nords is the resident military finance expert, so maybe he'll have some more specific thoughts for you.

davisgang90

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I'll second @Nords as the guru you want to talk to!

Here is an article on the topic he wrote about 6 months ago.

https://the-military-guide.com/maximizing-your-thrift-savings-plan-contributions-in-a-combat-zone/

Michael in ABQ

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I just returned from a 9-month deployment and maxed out my SDP. When I closed it out I had $10,604.90 since it took me several months to fill it up and I didn't start as soon as I possibly could have.


A couple of things to note.

You can't deposit money until you've been in the combat zone at least 30 days.

You can only deposit an amount equal to your pay for that month. As an officer I was making about $7k a month so I would not be able to just deposit $10k on my 31st day in theater. If you're enlisted and only making $4k a month, that's all you can deposit that month, so it would take 3 months before you could deposit all $10k. I don't recall if it's base pay or base pay + all allowances (BAH, BAS, IDP, etc.) .

Your account will keep accruing interest for 90 days after you leave theater. At 120 days they'll automatically deposit it in your bank account unless you request it sooner (I did so after 90 days just to be on the safe side).

It will take 4-6 weeks from making the deposit, to actually showing up in MyPay. Make sure you keep all your cash collection vouchers as proof.


Take advantage of the completely tax free Roth TSP. It's the only time you can earn money, invest it, and never pay a penny in taxes on the initial investment or subsequent growth.

browne497

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You can only deposit an amount equal to your pay for that month. As an officer I was making about $7k a month so I would not be able to just deposit $10k on my 31st day in theater. If you're enlisted and only making $4k a month, that's all you can deposit that month, so it would take 3 months before you could deposit all $10k. I don't recall if it's base pay or base pay + all allowances (BAH, BAS, IDP, etc.) .
I haven't gotten to utilize the SDP myself before so I can only go by hearsay, but from what I've read from Military Money Manual's posts, you can supposedly get commander approval to make a deposit greater than what you've made during your time deployed to allow you to deposit the full $10k from the beginning (after 30 days of course). Now as to how easy it is to get that signature of approval, I'm sure it's subject to how easy it is to even get ahold of the commander of your deployed unit.

I can definitely see the appeal though of using the tax free income to put as much into Roth accounts as possible. I just hate rebalancing percentages on MyPay. Especially since they "modernized" the MyPay site, I've had so many issues adjusting TSP contribution percentages. I just checked it today and when I went to check my percentages to see if they reflected what I initially set them to for 2021, I found that it was reflecting something completely different. That's another subject though. Thanks for the suggestion!

Michael in ABQ

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You can only deposit an amount equal to your pay for that month. As an officer I was making about $7k a month so I would not be able to just deposit $10k on my 31st day in theater. If you're enlisted and only making $4k a month, that's all you can deposit that month, so it would take 3 months before you could deposit all $10k. I don't recall if it's base pay or base pay + all allowances (BAH, BAS, IDP, etc.) .
I haven't gotten to utilize the SDP myself before so I can only go by hearsay, but from what I've read from Military Money Manual's posts, you can supposedly get commander approval to make a deposit greater than what you've made during your time deployed to allow you to deposit the full $10k from the beginning (after 30 days of course). Now as to how easy it is to get that signature of approval, I'm sure it's subject to how easy it is to even get ahold of the commander of your deployed unit.

Hmm. I never heard that, and the E-4 at the finance counter probably won't have either. I was the commander so I suppose I could have waived the requirement for myself ;)

Honestly, it won't make much of a difference if you do $10k on day 31 or $5k on day 31 and another $5k on day 61, about $40.

I can definitely see the appeal though of using the tax free income to put as much into Roth accounts as possible. I just hate rebalancing percentages on MyPay. Especially since they "modernized" the MyPay site, I've had so many issues adjusting TSP contribution percentages. I just checked it today and when I went to check my percentages to see if they reflected what I initially set them to for 2021, I found that it was reflecting something completely different. That's another subject though. Thanks for the suggestion!

I've actually found the MyPay interface to be very user friendly. I changed my percentages a couple of times during my deployment and it showed up on an LES within a few days. As a DoD Civilian I have to go into a whole other system to change my TSP percentages.

terran

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Again, I don't know how all this works, but unless I'm very confused it shouldn't matter if you put your deployed pay or some other pay in a Roth TSP, so I don't think you need to worry about jacking up your percentages as long as can get as much as you want to contribute into the TSP by the end of the year. You'll still have a certain amount of tax free income and a certain amount in the Roth TSP. If I had to guess, @Michael in ABQ is probably encouraging Roth TSP in a year you're deployed even if you'd otherwise contribute to traditional TSP because the lower taxable income makes Roth relatively more attractive than traditional. It sounds like you probably normally contribute to Roth anyway though.

browne497

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Again, I don't know how all this works, but unless I'm very confused it shouldn't matter if you put your deployed pay or some other pay in a Roth TSP, so I don't think you need to worry about jacking up your percentages as long as can get as much as you want to contribute into the TSP by the end of the year. You'll still have a certain amount of tax free income and a certain amount in the Roth TSP. If I had to guess, @Michael in ABQ is probably encouraging Roth TSP in a year you're deployed even if you'd otherwise contribute to traditional TSP because the lower taxable income makes Roth relatively more attractive than traditional. It sounds like you probably normally contribute to Roth anyway though.

Yes, all your assumptions here are correct, at least on my end. Both my TSP and IRA (both Roth) would still be maxed out for the year with or without deploying.

Would you say it's a sound decision then to sell my taxable Betterment holdings in favor of the SDP? Just to elaborate a little more on it, the 10% return is based on a year of investment, but a guaranteed .83% monthly return available from after day 30 of being deployed until 90 days after I return.

@Michael in ABQ does bring up a good point in that if the finance office isn't familiar with being able to get commander approval to the make a 1-time deposit of $10k, that could make selling my Betterment funds less beneficial if they will only let me contribute via pay deductions.

Michael in ABQ

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Again, I don't know how all this works, but unless I'm very confused it shouldn't matter if you put your deployed pay or some other pay in a Roth TSP, so I don't think you need to worry about jacking up your percentages as long as can get as much as you want to contribute into the TSP by the end of the year. You'll still have a certain amount of tax free income and a certain amount in the Roth TSP. If I had to guess, @Michael in ABQ is probably encouraging Roth TSP in a year you're deployed even if you'd otherwise contribute to traditional TSP because the lower taxable income makes Roth relatively more attractive than traditional. It sounds like you probably normally contribute to Roth anyway though.

Yes, all your assumptions here are correct, at least on my end. Both my TSP and IRA (both Roth) would still be maxed out for the year with or without deploying.

Would you say it's a sound decision then to sell my taxable Betterment holdings in favor of the SDP? Just to elaborate a little more on it, the 10% return is based on a year of investment, but a guaranteed .83% monthly return available from after day 30 of being deployed until 90 days after I return.

@Michael in ABQ does bring up a good point in that if the finance office isn't familiar with being able to get commander approval to the make a 1-time deposit of $10k, that could make selling my Betterment funds less beneficial if they will only let me contribute via pay deductions.

When I did it, the options were to use the Eagle Cash Card or a check. Pay deduction might have been possible but the Eagle Cash Card was the easiest.

I would walk into the finance office with a copy of my orders (to prove I'd been in theater at least 31 days) a copy of my LES to show I wasn't going to deposit more than my monthly pay, CAC, and my Eagle Cash Card.

The finance clerk would unlock my Eagle Cash Card for whatever amount I wanted to transfer (normally limited to $500 a day but they could unlock it for $5,000 or whatever you asked). I'd walk over to the self-serve Eagle Cash Card machine - basically an ATM - and transfer money from my linked checking account on to the Eagle Cash Card. I'd hand that back to the finance clerk who would then transfer it to the SDP. I'd get a receipt and sign the cash collection voucher and I was done. Total process took about 10 minutes each time.

terran

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I'd definitely put money in an account with a guaranteed 10% return before investing it in the market, but I'm not sure I'd drive myself crazy over it if getting it all in as soon as possible proves to be a hassle what with convincing people you're allowed to do it and getting your commanding officer to sign off. At the end of the day it's only $83/month.

Kierun

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Chiming in to say my experiences were very similar to Michael in ABQ's. The payroll deduction option sounds nice, I did checks, I didn't know about the unlocking of the eagle card though, then again my deployments were over a decade ago so maybe they didn't have them yet.

Nords

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@Nords is the resident military finance expert, so maybe he'll have some more specific thoughts for you.
I'll second @Nords as the guru you want to talk to!
Here is an article on the topic he wrote about 6 months ago.
https://the-military-guide.com/maximizing-your-thrift-savings-plan-contributions-in-a-combat-zone/
Thanks for the tags, Terran & Davisgang90!

I recently found myself with an excess of cash and was finally able to make a contribution to a taxable brokerage account with Betterment. The contribution was $5k and made in December 2020. Well this week I got news that I would be deploying to a tax free Combat Zone country some time this year. My question is should I sell my holdings with Betterment now in favor of utilizing the Savings Deposit Program (guaranteed 10% return)?

The balance has only grown to $5,160 since December so I can't imagine the tax implications of selling would be much but I have very little experience with taxable investment accounts given that this was the first time I had excess cash in addition to already being in position to max out my Roth IRA and Roth TSP (401k) for the year. If I do sell, I plan to invest the maximum allowed $10k in the SDP for the duration of my deployment.

Would it be better to sell and then max out my Roth IRA early first before touching SDP? I'm really just looking for clarity on what I should expect in way of taxes when the time comes and which account I should prioritize while down range.

Also, for extra info, my taxable income this year under normal circumstances would be a little over $40k. Typically deployments are anywhere from 3-6 months months so that would lower my taxable income anywhere from a fourth to half of that amount. I also plan to convert my traditional IRA balance to my Roth IRA account while deployed. I expect to max out my Roth TSP and Roth IRA contributions for the year already through dollar cost averaging but am open to knocking out the Roth IRA early or putting as much tax-free income into my Roth TSP during this time as possible if that's a more beneficial route.
Your first priority, @browne497, if you’re in the Blended Retirement System, is to make sure that you contribute at least 5% of your base pay to the Roth TSP for every month in 2021.  12 months of 5% contributions will maximize your DoD BRS matching contributions.  That post linked by Davisgang90 has a spreadsheet to help you map out the year’s contribution settings. 

Your second priority (in the BRS and in the legacy High Three) is to make sure that you stay below the Roth TSP’s elective deferral limit ($19,500 in 2021) until December’s 5% contribution.  Otherwise the TSP will cut off all further contributions for the rest of the year and you’ll lose out on BRS DoD matching.  You’d also be cut off from contributing combat zone tax-exempt pay to the Roth TSP and to the traditional TSP.

Third, you have $160 in short-term capital gains in your Betterment account.  The income taxes (at your personal income-tax bracket) aren’t going to make a difference in the long run.  In fact, with <$40K taxable income, your combat zone tax-exempt pay, and the Earned Income Tax Credit-- you might pay zero income taxes for 2021.   

You’ll probably still maximize your contributions to your Roth TSP and your Roth IRA.  Converting your traditional IRA to a Roth IRA is a smart move. 

Personally I think it’s a good idea to cash out of Betterment and maximize your SDP contributions, because it gives you a reset for more planning.  You can spend your “spare” time during the deployment figuring out how you want to invest in your taxable accounts after the deployment-- Betterment (still)?  Vanguard?  Fidelity's zero-expense index fund?  Another option would be to contribute some CZTE pay to your traditional TSP-- that blog post shows you how.

Read to the end of that blog post to learn how to tell the IRS (after your deployment) why you're earning all of that CZTE pay.  It'll help you avoid a query letter.

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You can only deposit an amount equal to your pay for that month. As an officer I was making about $7k a month so I would not be able to just deposit $10k on my 31st day in theater. If you're enlisted and only making $4k a month, that's all you can deposit that month, so it would take 3 months before you could deposit all $10k. I don't recall if it's base pay or base pay + all allowances (BAH, BAS, IDP, etc.) .
I haven't gotten to utilize the SDP myself before so I can only go by hearsay, but from what I've read from Military Money Manual's posts, you can supposedly get commander approval to make a deposit greater than what you've made during your time deployed to allow you to deposit the full $10k from the beginning (after 30 days of course). Now as to how easy it is to get that signature of approval, I'm sure it's subject to how easy it is to even get ahold of the commander of your deployed unit.
Hmm. I never heard that, and the E-4 at the finance counter probably won't have either. I was the commander so I suppose I could have waived the requirement for myself ;)
Yep, here’s the link to the Financial Management Regulation (DoD 7000.14-R) Volume 7A Chapter 51 paragraph 510205:
https://comptroller.defense.gov/Portals/45/documents/fmr/current/07a/07a_51.pdf
“Deposits may not be more than the amount defined as un-allotted current pay and allowances in subparagraph 510202.C. When, however, the member can establish to the satisfaction of the commanding officer that the member was unable to make a deposit in the normal manner, un-allotted pay in excess of current pay and allowances may be deposited.”

Michael, I’ve heard that the lump-sum deposit depends on the personalities of the COs and the knowledge/proficiency of the finance office...

Michael in ABQ

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I haven't gotten to utilize the SDP myself before so I can only go by hearsay, but from what I've read from Military Money Manual's posts, you can supposedly get commander approval to make a deposit greater than what you've made during your time deployed to allow you to deposit the full $10k from the beginning (after 30 days of course). Now as to how easy it is to get that signature of approval, I'm sure it's subject to how easy it is to even get ahold of the commander of your deployed unit.
Hmm. I never heard that, and the E-4 at the finance counter probably won't have either. I was the commander so I suppose I could have waived the requirement for myself ;)
Yep, here’s the link to the Financial Management Regulation (DoD 7000.14-R) Volume 7A Chapter 51 paragraph 510205:
https://comptroller.defense.gov/Portals/45/documents/fmr/current/07a/07a_51.pdf
“Deposits may not be more than the amount defined as un-allotted current pay and allowances in subparagraph 510202.C. When, however, the member can establish to the satisfaction of the commanding officer that the member was unable to make a deposit in the normal manner, un-allotted pay in excess of current pay and allowances may be deposited.”

Michael, I’ve heard that the lump-sum deposit depends on the personalities of the COs and the knowledge/proficiency of the finance office...

I encouraged my Soldiers before and during our deployment to take advantage of the TSP and SDP. Unfortunately, relatively few did. I would have gladly signed off on someone depositing more than their monthly pay had the situation arisen. I'd estimate maybe 5 or 10 out of 100+ used the SDP. I think a lot more at least enrolled in the TSP, even if they were only depositing 1-2%. It's better than nothing, especially since odds are almost all of them will leave the military before hitting 20 years to collect a pension.

browne497

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This is just to provide an update on the topic on how things have ended up playing out. The base I'm at insisted that there are some rules they have to abide by despite the information that Michael shared about being able to do a lump sum. Because of this, I have only been able to do a little bit at a time each month. I did what I could in the beginning of my tour to try to really get this changed because of how the regulation reads, but unfortunately not much traction was gained. However, because of these rules, all the money in my taxable investment account has remained, all the while I have been slowly approaching the maximum $10,000 contribution limit.

I have a sneaking suspicion that the civilian I handled my contribution with last month may have thrown me a bone whether he knows it or not (I'm not gonna tell him). Long story short I received an installment of a re-enlistment bonus and asked him if that bonus could be added to the amount of "unallotted" pay that I am allowed to use towards my contributions, but since it wasn't on my paystub for that previous month he said that I cannot. Despite this, instead of the $2K that I expected to be allowed to contribute, he came to the conclusion that I could contribute over $5K! So that's exactly what I did.

I'm now expecting to finish maxing out my SDP account next month and let the dividends start to pile up. I should be looking at another 4 months of growth including the 90 days after returning from the deployment but no one really ever knows how long their deployment will be. (I wouldn't complain about an extra month of tax free income).

Thanks again to everyone who gave their input on this. The lack of expenses during a deployment really accelerates a military member's path to FI (so long as we take advantage of it!)

MustacheAndaHalf

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The balance has only grown to $5,160 since December so I can't imagine the tax implications of selling would be much ...

Also, for extra info, my taxable income this year under normal circumstances would be a little over $40k. Typically deployments are anywhere from 3-6 months months so that would lower my taxable income anywhere from a fourth to half of that amount.
You pay tax on the gain, when you sell.  So $5160 - $5000 = $160 gain.  If you reduce your $40k income by any fraction, that $160 stays in the 12% bracket and costs you $19 in taxes.  Note if you wait 3 months, and hold the investment 366 days before selling, then it's "long-term capital gain", and you pay 0%.. nothing.
https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/taxes/federal-income-tax-brackets
https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/taxes/capital-gains-tax-rates

For future reference, $40k is a critical turning point in tax rates.  If you have a long-term gain, you pay 0% below $40k (single), and 15% above $40k (after subtracting your standard deduction).  Similarly, if your income pushes above $40,125 the extra money is taxed at 22%, instead of the 12% bracket below that limit.  So $40k is a very key point in the amount you pay in taxes.  But with your deployment reducing taxes, that shouldn't be an issue this year.

Michael in ABQ

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Thanks again to everyone who gave their input on this. The lack of expenses during a deployment really accelerates a military member's path to FI (so long as we take advantage of it!)

You're welcome. The money I saved from my deployment plus lots of stimulus cash was enough to allow us to put a down payment on a business that will replace the income from my full-time job.