Author Topic: Changing tIRA contribution to Roth IRA contribution before filing 2016 taxes?  (Read 2459 times)

ardrum

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As a non-expert investor who possibly made a mistake, I have a question regarding IRAs.

I have had a Roth IRA for several years (at Vanguard), long before discovering MMM.  I thought I was being clever by opening a traditional IRA account at Vanguard for 2016 since I figured it would be better to avoid higher taxes today in exchange for paying lower taxes later at a low cost of living FI life (my income is much higher now than 5+ years ago).  I assumed I'd be able to deduct the full $5500 in contributions from my income though.

Well, I feel like I didn't do my homework because it is going to turn out that my MAGI as a single filer is high enough that I'd only be able to deduct a tiny portion of my $5500 contribution.  Upon realizing this, I seem to have minimal incentive to a tIRA and might as well have never opened the tIRA, instead just continuing to add to my Roth IRA for the future, tax-free withdrawals. :(

Is there a way to re-allocate my 2016 tIRA account creation/contribution with Vanguard to instead apply it to my existing Vanguard Roth IRA prior to filing my 2016 taxes?  Does this make sense to do too if I'm going to otherwise have minimal deduction potential with a tIRA?  My income was ~$70k.

This may be a silly simplistic question, but thanks in advance for clearing this up to any extent for me! :D

secondcor521

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Yes.  Call Vanguard and tell them that you want to recharacterize your traditional IRA contribution for 2016 to your Roth IRA.  They will move your contribution plus/minus any gains/losses/income over to your Roth for you and you can treat it as though you originally made the contribution to your Roth.

If you want to get fancy, you can leave the very small portion of your contribution that would be deductible in your traditional IRA and recharacterize the rest to your Roth.  This is called a partial recharacterization, and it is treated as you would expect:  It is as though you made the original small contribution to your traditional and the rest to your Roth as of your original contribution date.

You have until the due date of your return to do the recharacterization.  I am not sure whether you have to get the recharacterization done prior to filing your taxes, but personally I would do it that way just to be conservative.

ardrum

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Awesome, thanks for the quick answer!

NoStacheOhio

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Yes.  Call Vanguard and tell them that you want to recharacterize your traditional IRA contribution for 2016 to your Roth IRA.  They will move your contribution plus/minus any gains/losses/income over to your Roth for you and you can treat it as though you originally made the contribution to your Roth.

If you want to get fancy, you can leave the very small portion of your contribution that would be deductible in your traditional IRA and recharacterize the rest to your Roth.  This is called a partial recharacterization, and it is treated as you would expect:  It is as though you made the original small contribution to your traditional and the rest to your Roth as of your original contribution date.

You have until the due date of your return to do the recharacterization.  I am not sure whether you have to get the recharacterization done prior to filing your taxes, but personally I would do it that way just to be conservative.

You can recharacterize after you file, as long as you do it before the deadline.

kaadalac

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Can somebody help explain at what Salary levels it makes sense to do a traditional IRA vs a roth IRA?

My wife and I have always done roth but I have been reading and hearing that a traditional may be better?  This is the first I am reading that a roth is better than a traditional because of too much salary. 

So confused...

overwhelmed

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Can somebody help explain at what Salary levels it makes sense to do a traditional IRA vs a roth IRA?

My wife and I have always done roth but I have been reading and hearing that a traditional may be better?  This is the first I am reading that a roth is better than a traditional because of too much salary. 

So confused...

I'm no expert but I believe people often switch from tIRA to Roth when their MAGI is too high to be deductible.


There are a lot of links here about it & I have added links from the IRS & Vanguard that might help.

https://investor.vanguard.com/ira/roth-vs-traditional-ira

https://www.irs.gov/retirement-plans/ira-deduction-limits

https://www.irs.gov/retirement-plans/plan-participant-employee/amount-of-roth-ira-contributions-that-you-can-make-for-2016

terran

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Can somebody help explain at what Salary levels it makes sense to do a traditional IRA vs a roth IRA?

There's a simple sounding "rule" that turns out to not be so simple when you actually try to figure out what it means for you: If you expect your marginal income tax rate to be lower in retirement than it is while working then you should make deductible contributions (if allowed at your income level). If you expect your marginal income tax rate to be higher in retirement then you should make roth contributions. If you expect your marginal income tax rate to be the same in retirement, then it doesn't matter.

To illustrate, lets say you have $1000 spare and you're in the 25% bracket now, you're retiring next year, and the market will gain 10% this year (all overly simplified to make the math easy).

If you put it in a traditional IRA, you put in $1000, pay no tax on that money, and it grows to $1100 next year when you take it out. If you put it in a roth, you put in $750, pay $250 in tax on that money and have $825 next year when you take it out.

So, the roth provides $825 tax free income next year, the traditional provides $1100 of income, but this is taxed. If you're in the same (25%) marginal tax bracket, it would be worth $825 to you in after tax income: a tie. If you're in the 28% marginal bracket it would be worth $792: win roth. If you're in the 15% marginal bracket it would be worth $935: win traditional. You can do the math for more years invested, and you'll see the result is the same.

Where it gets tricky is figuring out what you marginal tax bracket is going to be in retirement. What other income streams will fill up the lower bracket (pension, social security, annuity, large existing deductible retirement plan contributions)? Will tax rates change? In which direction will they change? Will you live in a lower/higher income tax state than you do now (I left it out above, but it would have the same effect as lower/higher federal tax brackets)?

The long and short of it is that unless you expect to move to a higher income tax state, you expect tax rates to rise, or you expect a large increase in income before retirement (doctor currently in residency, etc), then chances are you'll be in a lower tax bracket in retirement, giving the advantage to traditional/deductible contributions. You certainly want at least enough in deductible contributions to fill up the standard deduction and the lower tax brackets, especially in early retirement when you likely won't have things like social security or a pension filling them up.

kaadalac

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So my wife and I both maxed out our Roth IRAs last year.  We are in the 28% bracket.

 It sounds like it is either better to stick with our Roth or to that the benefit of switching to traditional may be marginal enough that the effort may not be worth it. 

terran

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So my wife and I both maxed out our Roth IRAs last year.  We are in the 28% bracket.

 It sounds like it is either better to stick with our Roth or to that the benefit of switching to traditional may be marginal enough that the effort may not be worth it.

Since the 28% bracket starts at $151.9k, if you both have retirement plans at work you are well over the $98k limit for contributing to a deductible IRA (see overwhelmed's links), so it's certainly better to contribute to a Roth than a non-deductible traditional IRA.

If you were comparing roth vs deductible contributions to a 401k (which you can pick either if your plan allows it), then I would think there's a good chance you'll be in a lower bracket in retirement (possibly significantly lower) if you have a spending pattern like many on this forum (low spending, high income, retire early).


kaadalac

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Oh I misread that image at first and was reading from the single column. We are actually in the 25% bracket ($135k combined income)

MDM

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So my wife and I both maxed out our Roth IRAs last year.  We are in the 28% bracket.
 It sounds like it is either better to stick with our Roth or to that the benefit of switching to traditional may be marginal enough that the effort may not be worth it.
Oh I misread that image at first and was reading from the single column. We are actually in the 25% bracket ($135k combined income)
If the $135K is gross income, then after deducting $36K in 401k contributions you could contribute almost the full combined $11K to traditional IRAs.  If you have other pre-tax deductions (e.g., medical insurance) then you would be under the $98K limit for MFJ and could deduct the full $11K tIRA.

Absent any other information, that would likely be better for you than Roth.

terran's explanation is excellent.  You could also look at Traditional versus Roth - Bogleheads for more on this topic.

 

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