Author Topic: Would you rather win the lottery or have the perfect job?  (Read 30841 times)

Cressida

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Would you rather win the lottery or have the perfect job?
« on: May 29, 2015, 11:18:37 PM »
I wasn't sure which subtopic was most appropriate for this post, but I chose Share Your Badassity because what the hell.

At my workplace, we have a staff meeting every month, facilitated by rotating staff member volunteers. One of the items on the agenda is always "Getting To Know You," where the facilitator poses a question and everyone in the room answers it. At our last meeting, the question was the thread subject: "Would you rather win the lottery or have the perfect job?"

I admit my first instinct was "win the lottery," because, after all, we're all striving for FI, and the lottery would accomplish that and would free me to fill my life as I pleased. But the more I thought about it, the more I disliked that answer. It seemed like cheating. Not only that, but on reflection, I realized that winning the lottery would actually not make me truly any happier than I am now. I mean, I'm going to be FI in a handful of years regardless. But the "perfect job" - one that was meaningful to me, enjoyable, populated by cool colleagues, part time, no commute - that actually *would* make me happier than I am now. So that was my answer.

I found this reassuring. I think it means the "not worshipping money" path is the right one for me.

Oh and yes, nearly everyone answered with the lottery. I was surprised that a couple of people (out of about 25) did not.


p.s. The time I facilitated the meeting, my "getting to know you" question was Cheese or Beer?. EVERY SINGLE PERSON answered "cheese." Personally, I thought the question was harder than that.

Frankies Girl

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Re: Would you rather win the lottery or have the perfect job?
« Reply #1 on: May 29, 2015, 11:50:04 PM »
I would vote win the lottery. Mostly because I never play, so how amazing a feat would that be?

I never want to work for anyone in any capacity at this point - even a perfect job would probably expect you do some sort of actual work with some sort of time commitment - and I will never let anything control my time like that again. I am currently the poster child for "burned out."


Ricky

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Re: Would you rather win the lottery or have the perfect job?
« Reply #2 on: May 30, 2015, 12:09:45 AM »
Good question. Perfect job for sure. There's nothing like doing what you love and making money to boot. Too much money doesn't bring happiness and no one here would need lottery-like levels of money. I really don't even have to think about this one.

EricL

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Re: Would you rather win the lottery or have the perfect job?
« Reply #3 on: May 30, 2015, 01:12:23 AM »
Isn't pretty much the same thing? 

Insanity

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Re: Would you rather win the lottery or have the perfect job?
« Reply #4 on: May 30, 2015, 05:52:09 AM »

Isn't pretty much the same thing?

Not necessarily.  Depends on your dream job.  And I am assuming the details around the question are if you win the lottery you can't have your dream job.

Me, I would take the lottery every time.  I don't have a dream job and find my interests shift frequently enough that what I am doing for my job now, is something I wouldn't necessarily enjoy three years from now.


Ricky

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Re: Would you rather win the lottery or have the perfect job?
« Reply #5 on: May 30, 2015, 06:14:46 AM »

Isn't pretty much the same thing?

Not necessarily.  Depends on your dream job.  And I am assuming the details around the question are if you win the lottery you can't have your dream job.

Me, I would take the lottery every time.  I don't have a dream job and find my interests shift frequently enough that what I am doing for my job now, is something I wouldn't necessarily enjoy three years from now.

Ehh...I am assuming by "dream job" that it's a hypothetical setup in which you would be perfectly happy forever, not just theoretically based on how you would currently define your dream job. In this hypothetical dream job, you're presumably making plenty of money. And, you have to spend your days doing something, right? What if the dream job allowed you to be doing things you'd do in retirement anyway, and still get paid all the money you'd ever want or need? In other words, this dream "job" would mold to your ever-changing interests in some way.

Honestly, either answer makes sense because they're both basically the same thing. Only to me, winning the lottery means you suddenly have a ton of money but are left to your own devices. Dream job implies doing literally anything you'd love until the day you die without any concern for money - which is what life is about.

KungfuRabbit

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Re: Would you rather win the lottery or have the perfect job?
« Reply #6 on: May 30, 2015, 06:27:41 AM »
What if your dream job doesn't pay?

Lets say I want to volunteer at a park and share people the badassness of nature. That would make me happy, but I still need money....

What most lottery winners do, fancy cars and get fat in a massive house, makes no one happy (which has been proven many times).

SemiFruggal

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Re: Would you rather win the lottery or have the perfect job?
« Reply #7 on: May 30, 2015, 06:51:43 AM »
Center field, major league baseball.  Forward, any professional basketball team.  I'm going to have to stretch to think of a job that qualifies as "perfect" and also fits my age and abilities.  But I've got more money than I need, and so I should get to work on finding that job.  Yes, job is a bigger current issue than money. So I vote "job."

MoneyCat

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Re: Would you rather win the lottery or have the perfect job?
« Reply #8 on: May 30, 2015, 06:57:49 AM »
I'd rather win the lottery, because then I could say "No" to anyone at any time and I would no longer have to be obedient to bosses who don't respect me.  Of course, winning the lottery would require me to actually play and that's a waste of money, so instead I think I will keep my head down and sock away as much of my pay as possible until I can get my happy ending on my own.

big_slacker

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Re: Would you rather win the lottery or have the perfect job?
« Reply #9 on: May 30, 2015, 07:35:00 AM »
Lottery, then I could do whatever 'work' I chose to. Work is more fun when you don't have to do it. :)

Erica/NWEdible

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Re: Would you rather win the lottery or have the perfect job?
« Reply #10 on: May 30, 2015, 09:43:38 AM »
Need more info. Perfect job could include obscene compensation for trivial work (a million dollars an hour!), but perhaps that's not in keeping with the spirit of the brain crackers? So let's say pay in line with typical work in dream field. None of my dream fields pay very well. Most are minimum wage or piece work that pays less than minimum wage once the hours are factored in.

Now, how much lottery payout? Some of those kitties get up to high multiple millions. I just looked up the current MegaMillions and it's over 100 milllion! Woah. So some lottery winnings would be enough to push us (and probably half the regular posters on this forum) so far over the edge into FIRE that it would be stupid.

But let's assume a more moderate winning - 5 million. Say a lump sum of 3.5 million after taxes. That would give us 140,000 as a 4% annual withdrawal on top of what we've already stached.

I would totally take that. I'd rather do what I love because I love it and not worry about money.

ender

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Re: Would you rather win the lottery or have the perfect job?
« Reply #11 on: May 30, 2015, 11:41:09 AM »
Winning the lottery would mean I could spend much of my time carefully choosing where to give/donate my money, which is as close to a dream job as I could ever imagine.

Getting to help organizations and people in need on a daily basis?  That'd be pretty enjoyable.

link_417

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Re: Would you rather win the lottery or have the perfect job?
« Reply #12 on: May 30, 2015, 12:39:27 PM »
My current job isn't my 'perfect' job, but I enjoy it, so if I could win the lottery anonymously then I would choose winning the lottery and still working where I'm at.

Since my state does not allow for anonymous winners, I would choose the perfect job.  Which would probably be something that constantly shifts according to my interests and minimizes human interaction while still paying well :D


And I also would have picked cheese! I don't drink but I love cheese so even if I did, cheese would've won out.

GuitarStv

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Re: Would you rather win the lottery or have the perfect job?
« Reply #13 on: May 30, 2015, 12:51:27 PM »
I don't believe in 'the perfect job', so would absolutely take the lotto money.

Daisy

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Re: Would you rather win the lottery or have the perfect job?
« Reply #14 on: May 30, 2015, 01:31:32 PM »
I would choose lottery and beer.

My perfect job is to be FIREd, kayaking around, volunteering at helping others, long hike vacations. Some people actually get paid to do stuff like that, you know, so it's kind of job-like.

Don't like cheese or eat dairy that much, except for perfectly melted mozzarella cheese on pizza. Beer is a definite winner there.

sol

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Re: Would you rather win the lottery or have the perfect job?
« Reply #15 on: May 30, 2015, 02:19:24 PM »
I'm confused about why anyone would choose lottery.

Lottery winnings are just money.  Nothing else.  Not purpose, not power, not philanthropy, not social connections, not any reason to get up every morning instead of wasting away into a worthless husk.

The perfect job can also be just as much money, plus provide meaning to your life.  After you win the lottery you still have to fill your days with something.  Imagine the perfect job pays you more money than the lottery, plus facilitates whatever your dream is. 

If your dream is sitting on the sofa and watching tv every day, then your perfect job pays you to do that, plus provides a personal assistant to fetch you snacks, and upgrades your TV and sound system for you every six months, plus TV executives take your phone calls and ask for your opinions on which shows they should cancel vs keep.  It's all the good parts of winning the lottery, plus more.

If your dream is helping clear unexploded ordinance from African battlefields, your perfect job pays you more than the lottery and also puts you in charge of an army of experienced personell who look to you for occassional guidance and where and how to do their job.  They make a real difference in the world, and they give you all of the credit.  The Secretary of the UN invites you to his house for dinner to say thank you.  PBS makes a documentary about what a great humanitarian you are. 

I'm having a hard time finding a personal dream that isn't better with the perfect job than it is with lottery winnings.  Maybe only people who don't have dreams are the ones who choose lottery?

link_417

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Re: Would you rather win the lottery or have the perfect job?
« Reply #16 on: May 30, 2015, 03:07:55 PM »
I'm confused about why anyone would choose lottery. . . Maybe only people who don't have dreams are the ones who choose lottery?

You may be right; I don't have a clearly defined dream and I chose the lottery.  I also must not have much of an imagination because I didn't imagine my perfect job paying a lotto-sized wage, I thought of the pay in more "real life" terms.

If your dream is sitting on the sofa and watching tv every day, then your perfect job pays you to do that, plus provides a personal assistant to fetch you snacks, and upgrades your TV and sound system for you every six months, plus TV executives take your phone calls and ask for your opinions on which shows they should cancel vs keep. 

I do have a dream!

EricL

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Re: Would you rather win the lottery or have the perfect job?
« Reply #17 on: May 30, 2015, 05:49:45 PM »
My point was it's really hard to win the lottery. Almost impossible. Ditto finding the perfect job. And dream job and perfect job are not synonymous. Lots of people have dream jobs but even so there's a part of the job that sucks. It may suck only a tiny bit and be grossly outweighed by the wonderful.  But it can't be called a perfect job.

But given the choice I'd rather win the lottery. If I can't create a perfect job I can pay someone a chunk of dough for one in a weird reverse investment scheme.  That is. If they're not OK with me working for free.

Cressida

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Re: Would you rather win the lottery or have the perfect job?
« Reply #18 on: May 30, 2015, 05:51:21 PM »
I guess I feel like for the question to be worth thinking about, the "perfect job" should be something that might possibly exist in theory, even if it doesn't in reality.

For example: I'm an accountant. It suits me, and there are some parts of my job I genuinely enjoy and some (OK, lots) that I do not. So my idea of the "perfect job" was one where I do only the parts I enjoy, where it's part-time and I can choose my hours, where the commute is painless, where my colleagues are funny and cool, and where I support the employer's mission. Could this job exist? Sure, why not? It would take me longer to get to FI (because it would have to pay less, being part-time and full of perks), but I wouldn't mind that because I would enjoy the job.

On the other hand, Sol's sit-on-the-couch-and-watch-TV job could not possibly exist unless the world looked a lot different than it does. If we allow those sorts of jobs to qualify, then yes, the question is easy and Sol is right. But if we don't, then I think it would be reasonable for someone to choose "lottery" if there is truly no possible job that they would enjoy and be able to live off of. It's sort of a function of how well "things I enjoy" aligns with "things that humans are generally willing to pay for." That's how I see it, anyway.

forummm

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Re: Would you rather win the lottery or have the perfect job?
« Reply #19 on: May 30, 2015, 06:10:25 PM »
Lottery and cheese.

I'm confused about why anyone would choose lottery.

I'm assuming it's one of the big 9-figure jackpots. That would give me a huge start for my foundation. I know you said it's "not philanthropy", but I disagree--for me that's exactly what it would be. If it was a $100 million cash-value prize, that would be tax-free going directly to my foundation (perhaps minus a small chunk to bump me to FI). Then I could spend $5 million per year doing some real good with it. My pipe dream is actually to solve the EROEI problems around fusion, proliferate this cheap, clean energy around the globe (arresting climate change in the process), have my foundation own all the shares of my mega-rich corporation, and then spend all that cash doing good. It would be like the Gates Foundation, but of course with way more money. I guess my reason is that the lottery enables my dream job--just at a smaller level than what I could do with a mega-successful business.

okits

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Re: Would you rather win the lottery or have the perfect job?
« Reply #20 on: May 30, 2015, 06:40:27 PM »
Lottery and beer.

Lottery because you control the funds.  If you are working for someone you are always at the mercy of a new jerkwad manager making your life hard or upper management deciding it would be brilliant to outsource your department, micromanaging your function, or restructuring operations to make your perfect job now suck.

I get that the lottery enables you to sit on your ass all day and do nothing, but if you're ambitious enough to chase FI then you're probably not the type to spend your life like that.  For me, personally, I am a parent, so getting out of bed in the morning is non-optional.

And I chose beer because I don't have my perfect job or lottery winnings.

rightdecisions

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Re: Would you rather win the lottery or have the perfect job?
« Reply #21 on: May 30, 2015, 08:12:38 PM »
No brainer.....lotto.

money buys me happiness.

sol

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Re: Would you rather win the lottery or have the perfect job?
« Reply #22 on: May 30, 2015, 08:32:56 PM »
money buys me happiness.

Seriously?  That's the consensus here?

I think you folks might have missed the point.

rightdecisions

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Re: Would you rather win the lottery or have the perfect job?
« Reply #23 on: May 30, 2015, 11:13:07 PM »
Huh lets see.....behind door 1....spend more time with family.  spend more time on hobbies.  volunteer.  Work on home improvement projects.  Play video games.   Sleep in.  Cultivate/improve relationships.  grow my beard longer and get tattoos as corporate world does not like that....

or behind door number 2...perfect job?  job = work

I don't wanna work.

Tjat

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Re: Would you rather win the lottery or have the perfect job?
« Reply #24 on: May 31, 2015, 09:18:23 AM »
I suppose my dream job would also include exorbitant amounts of money earned in a short period of time, so it is pretty much the same thing ;)


BrickByBrick

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Re: Would you rather win the lottery or have the perfect job?
« Reply #25 on: May 31, 2015, 12:14:06 PM »
Lottery, because I would then have the "dream job" of having all the free time I personally want (I would always be able to work my own hours).  I often use the "If money wasn't a problem, what would you do with your life" question as motivation to become FI.

Cpa Cat

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Re: Would you rather win the lottery or have the perfect job?
« Reply #26 on: May 31, 2015, 12:40:25 PM »
I don't really like working. Sometimes, when the mood strikes, I enjoy it.

But mostly my dream job is getting to do whatever I want, whenever I want.

Right now I'm ER'd, with a Fake Job as a part-time CPA. So I'm pretty close to having my dream job already.

You know what would improve this life? Winning the lottery, because then I could give the gift of ER to some of my friends, give more to the charities that I enjoy, and even do a few ridiculously wasteful things.

I think my dream job -is- being a lottery winner. I'm sure it's a lot of work figuring out what to do with all that money.

sol

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Re: Would you rather win the lottery or have the perfect job?
« Reply #27 on: May 31, 2015, 12:59:09 PM »
I think my dream job -is- being a lottery winner. I'm sure it's a lot of work figuring out what to do with all that money.

I still think you're all missing the point.  Money doesn't buy happiness.  Happiness derives from the things that you do, not the things that you have, and a job is by definition about doing things.

Some of you have suggested that you would hate any job because you think "job" entails a rigid schedule and an annoying boss.  Why is that?  Just lack of imagination?  Owning your own company is a job without a boss or a schedule.  You can pay other people to do all of the parts of the job you don't like.  You collect the big paychecks at the end.

In some cases, a job provides the context for the things that you do.  To extend the TV watching analogy above, a lottery winner can still watch TV all day but only a professionally employed TV watcher can watch tv all day and then get to decide which shows get cancelled or continued.  If what you really care about is television, owning a TV network (yes, that's a real job) provides you with the platform to make your dream more meaningful. 

That kind of thing applies to most fantasies that people have.  I'm still struggling to think of a dream/hobby that isn't improved by the right kind of job.

Cpa Cat

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Re: Would you rather win the lottery or have the perfect job?
« Reply #28 on: May 31, 2015, 01:21:30 PM »
I still think you're all missing the point.  Money doesn't buy happiness.  Happiness derives from the things that you do, not the things that you have, and a job is by definition about doing things.

Some of you have suggested that you would hate any job because you think "job" entails a rigid schedule and an annoying boss.  Why is that?  Just lack of imagination?  Owning your own company is a job without a boss or a schedule.  You can pay other people to do all of the parts of the job you don't like.  You collect the big paychecks at the end.

In some cases, a job provides the context for the things that you do.  To extend the TV watching analogy above, a lottery winner can still watch TV all day but only a professionally employed TV watcher can watch tv all day and then get to decide which shows get cancelled or continued.  If what you really care about is television, owning a TV network (yes, that's a real job) provides you with the platform to make your dream more meaningful. 

That kind of thing applies to most fantasies that people have.  I'm still struggling to think of a dream/hobby that isn't improved by the right kind of job.

I think you're missing that a job=work.

Suppose I like watching TV. That doesn't mean I -want- to be in charge of TV. I don't want to watch it all day and make decisions about it. And when I get bored of TV, I want to turn it off and not think about it. Being a lottery winner lets me watch TV at my leisure, without commitment. Being King of TV entails responsibility.

Suppose I like my Fake Job as a CPA. I don't make "a living" anymore, because I don't work full time. Working 15 hours a week as a CPA is fun and interesting, but I don't make a whole lot. If I won the lottery, I could be a part-time CPA -and- be rich. Or... as you suggest, I could hire people to do more CPA work and make more money. Except I don't want employees. Employees are work. Running a company is work. Running a company means being responsible for people, the growth of the company, resolving inter-employee drama, etc.  Been there, done that. Not my dream job.

I don't want to turn my hobbies into jobs.

WORK doesn't buy happiness.

Freedom buys happiness.

So my dream job is to be free to do whatever I please, without concern for money, schedules, work, or responsibilities. I don't know if "lottery winner" gets a person all the way there, but it's as close as we can get.

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Re: Would you rather win the lottery or have the perfect job?
« Reply #29 on: May 31, 2015, 04:13:51 PM »

Suppose I like my Fake Job as a CPA. I don't make "a living" anymore, because I don't work full time. Working 15 hours a week as a CPA is fun and interesting, but I don't make a whole lot. If I won the lottery, I could be a part-time CPA -and- be rich. Or... as you suggest, I could hire people to do more CPA work and make more money. Except I don't want employees. Employees are work. Running a company is work. Running a company means being responsible for people, the growth of the company, resolving inter-employee drama, etc.  Been there, done that. Not my dream job.

I don't want to turn my hobbies into jobs.

WORK doesn't buy happiness.

Freedom buys happiness.

So my dream job is to be free to do whatever I please, without concern for money, schedules, work, or responsibilities. I don't know if "lottery winner" gets a person all the way there, but it's as close as we can get.

This. It's perfect.

A dream job forces me to do something job related, every day - I love to golf, but I wouldn't want to be a pro on the PGA. Even if I could have my own company (something I desperately want someday) if I was given the choice between being my own boss (setting my own schedule, doing only the tasks that I want to do and hiring out the things I don't want to do, etc.) and having X amount of lottery winnings to ensure that today I can do X, tomorrow I can do Y, etc. forever, I'm going to choose the freedom every time.

Oh and beer. Definitely beer.

sol

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Re: Would you rather win the lottery or have the perfect job?
« Reply #30 on: May 31, 2015, 05:16:00 PM »
This. It's perfect.

Well, this was a poll asking for your opinion, and I guess everyone is entitled to one no matter how wrong it seems to me.

I have to admit that I'm kind of disappointed, though.  I thought this community was about something else.

forummm

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Re: Would you rather win the lottery or have the perfect job?
« Reply #31 on: May 31, 2015, 05:20:50 PM »
I think my dream job -is- being a lottery winner. I'm sure it's a lot of work figuring out what to do with all that money.

I still think you're all missing the point.  Money doesn't buy happiness.  Happiness derives from the things that you do, not the things that you have, and a job is by definition about doing things.

Some of you have suggested that you would hate any job because you think "job" entails a rigid schedule and an annoying boss.  Why is that?  Just lack of imagination?  Owning your own company is a job without a boss or a schedule.  You can pay other people to do all of the parts of the job you don't like.  You collect the big paychecks at the end.

In some cases, a job provides the context for the things that you do.  To extend the TV watching analogy above, a lottery winner can still watch TV all day but only a professionally employed TV watcher can watch tv all day and then get to decide which shows get cancelled or continued.  If what you really care about is television, owning a TV network (yes, that's a real job) provides you with the platform to make your dream more meaningful. 

That kind of thing applies to most fantasies that people have.  I'm still struggling to think of a dream/hobby that isn't improved by the right kind of job.

I'm having trouble connecting those dots, Sol. I can see how for some people (and maybe this is your personality), something you love could be made better by it being your job, in part because you have some control over it. But I think for a lot of people, as soon as you turn their hobby into a job, it can start to suck--and be work. It also sounds like either you really like management, or maybe you haven't been in charge of a business or other major organization. Having employees can be a giant pain and tends to distract you from whatever it was you liked about your field in the first place. Because instead of creating a new widget you're filling out paperwork and dealing with problem employees and conflicts between employees and worrying about not having enough money coming into pay the employees and dealing with employees who want a raise and with your vendors that aren't fulfilling their contract, etc, etc. It sucks a lot of the time. Sometimes you can get lucky and have a really profitable business so you can hire a lot of help that does all this headache for you. But that cuts into the money going into your pocket. And you can be insulated entirely from all the headaches. You still have to deal with the management you hire. And if you own your own company, you DO have a boss and a schedule. All your clients are essentially telling you what to do and when. You can choose to drop them, but in most businesses, you can't afford to lose that revenue.

sol

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Re: Would you rather win the lottery or have the perfect job?
« Reply #32 on: May 31, 2015, 08:17:50 PM »
I'm having trouble connecting those dots, Sol. I can see how for some people (and maybe this is your personality), something you love could be made better by it being your job, in part because you have some control over it.

Not just by having control over it, but becauese you can actually do it better. 

If what you really care about is global warming, then a lottery winner could spend a bunch of money to try to influence national policy.  Or your dream job could be to SET national policy.

I'm just a little saddenned that everyone here seems to be saying that the reason they want to retire early is so that they can do nothing.  I thought the whole point of this FIRE exercise was to be free to do whatever it is you really want to do, with the understanding that it would be SOMETHING and not nothing.  All I'm hearing is a whole lot of fantasizing about doing nothing.  Pathetic.

If you want to do nothing, just drive your car over a cliff and get it over with.  You'll have eternity to do nothing.  As for me, I was kind of planning on doing something with my short life.

MMM himself has made this abundandly clear on numerous occasions.  The value of hard work.  Muscle over motor.  Early retirement doesn't mean you'll stop working.  Catheter and bedpan.  Every other blog post is about how your brain's vision of happiness will not actually make you happier, if all you aspire to is sloth.  Your brain needs you to be active and engaged in order to feel fulfilled and complete.  The point of FIRE is to give you the means to do the work that you find fulfilling, not to give you the means to sit on your fat fucking ass all day every day until you die of diabetes and loneliness.

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Sometimes you can get lucky and have a really profitable business so you can hire a lot of help that does all this headache for you. But that cuts into the money going into your pocket.

I thought we were talking about a fantastical hypothetical question?  None of are actually going to choose to never eat beer or cheese again, are we?  The point of hypothethetical is to help you explore your feelings about a topic, not argue about whether or not the answers are realistic or practical.  With that in mind, I would argue that your dream job can absolutely be profitable enough to pay people do all of the parts you don't like, and still pay you more money than any lottery on Earth.

If you're going to rephrase the questions as "would you rather win the lottery and be fabulously wealthy or have a job you kind of enjoy but still has lots of shitty parts about it", which seems to be what most of you are answering, then I can understand the lottery answer.  That wasn't the question though. 

forummm

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Re: Would you rather win the lottery or have the perfect job?
« Reply #33 on: May 31, 2015, 08:41:16 PM »
I think I see now. I guess maybe I'm so cynical that "winning the lottery" sounds much more realistic than "having a job I absolutely love". So I fell into the mental paralysis and thought about it differently. Even when you said "set energy policy" above, my mind went straight to the practical about how that was impossible, etc.

Now that I'm thinking about it more clearly, I'd stick with my answer above. My dream job is to make those giant scientific leaps for fusion, and create the mega foundation and do all kinds of good with it. I'm not the kind of person to do nothing. I don't watch TV. I wouldn't be happy just sitting around.

In reality world, I'm still struggling about how best to spend my life after I don't need income. There are lots of things I would enjoy doing. But I am personally driven to do something that has purpose and improves the world. I still need to find my path. My hope is that once I'm no longer distracted by the mundane and frustrating of my day job that my path will become more clear.

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Re: Would you rather win the lottery or have the perfect job?
« Reply #34 on: May 31, 2015, 08:53:57 PM »
Under the assumption that winning the lottery means winning a massive jackpot (tens of millions of dollars) I would rather win the lottery than have a dream job. Why? Because if I got the dream job I would be happy and fulfilled with my work, but if I won the lottery I could give each of my closest family members and friends enough money to insure all of their financial independence, giving all of us the happiness and freedom that comes with the security of financial independence rather than only increasing my personal happiness with a personal dream job.

Cressida

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Re: Would you rather win the lottery or have the perfect job?
« Reply #35 on: May 31, 2015, 09:08:52 PM »
I don't know if I'd ever thought about it in exactly these terms, but it's true that there's sort of an inherent tension within Mustachianism - we're supposed to acknowledge that money doesn't make us happy at exactly the same time that we're furiously amassing a stache of money. It can be easy for the former to fade from the forefront of your mind when you're busy with the latter. So when you're presented with the option of instantly acquiring a huge stache, that can seem at first like it's the answer.

But I think I mostly agree with Sol. "Acquire enough money so you can do whatever you want" might be what the strategy boils down to, but during the process, if you don't keep "what you want" in your mind's eye at least as much as "acquire money," it's going to feel a little empty.

sol

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Re: Would you rather win the lottery or have the perfect job?
« Reply #36 on: May 31, 2015, 09:22:08 PM »
I feel like this question really boils down to whether you'd rather be rich or be happy, and you're all choosing rich?

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Re: Would you rather win the lottery or have the perfect job?
« Reply #37 on: May 31, 2015, 09:47:10 PM »
I would soooooooooo much rather be happy than rich. I wish someone would give me the choice. :)

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Re: Would you rather win the lottery or have the perfect job?
« Reply #38 on: May 31, 2015, 10:02:21 PM »
I'm just a little saddenned that everyone here seems to be saying that the reason they want to retire early is so that they can do nothing.  I thought the whole point of this FIRE exercise was to be free to do whatever it is you really want to do, with the understanding that it would be SOMETHING and not nothing.  All I'm hearing is a whole lot of fantasizing about doing nothing.  Pathetic.

I think you're reading too much into people's responses.  My take on them is that people are simply choosing "instant retirement" over "perpetual non-retirement."  And I think the divergence in our interpretations stems from MMM's benign doublespeak, in which the definition of "retirement" has been decoupled from "the cessation of work."

To the mustachian, the laudable activities you're talking about--setting national policies, clearing minefields, running television networks, in each case, not because you have to in order to put bread on the table, but because you want to, and have consciously chosen to, to the exclusion of the infinite number of other available options--are not jobs; instead, those are retirement pursuits.  So, when faced with the choice outlined in the original post, it's no wonder that most mustachians would reject the alternative labeled as a "job."

I haven't seen anyone in this thread actually express any aspirations to sloth (other than the professional couch potato in your own hypothetical), so I wouldn't lose faith in this community just yet.  Still, that post was a stirring call to action, and now we have a great pep talk to link to for the odd mustachian who expresses misplaced ambitions of catheters and bedpans!

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Re: Would you rather win the lottery or have the perfect job?
« Reply #39 on: May 31, 2015, 10:15:42 PM »
Sitting / surfing on a beach somewhere while traveling and hanging with friends and family full time doesn't pay well on the job market so I'll pick lottery :)

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Re: Would you rather win the lottery or have the perfect job?
« Reply #40 on: May 31, 2015, 11:26:41 PM »

I feel like this question really boils down to whether you'd rather be rich or be happy, and you're all choosing rich?

No, they just think they can find happiness post-FI in hobbies more than work.

I get your point, but I also think you're stretching dream job beyond what most would typically imagine.

How about this:
You can win the lotto, or pick any job in the world that exists today.

I think most are thinking of that question, and would take the former. Whereas you're being more creative and making up a job with any parameters you want (like to commute with a jet pack? DONE!)
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arebelspy

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Would you rather win the lottery or have the perfect job?
« Reply #41 on: May 31, 2015, 11:28:22 PM »
And post FI (after the lottery) you can CREATE your dream job. You have the freedom to define the parameters of that job (hours, bosses, etc.).

100MM doesn't just mean you throw money at a problem, but you can work to solve it also. 

Neither choice is mutually exclusive, but I think it'd be easier to create a dream job with lots of money than vice-versa.

I have big post-FI goals for working hard and making an impact, yet I could make a reasonable case that I could do that better and more efficiently with a lot of funding kicking it off than just being placed into a dream job right now (again, with the caveat that I don't just get to make * up -- otherwise my dream job has 100 trillion funding and pays me 1 billion a day, but that's stupid and unrealistic--not in the spirit of the exercise, IMO).

So I can see why people would choose lotto even if they aren't planning on sitting around.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2015, 11:30:31 PM by arebelspy »
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GuitarStv

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Re: Would you rather win the lottery or have the perfect job?
« Reply #42 on: June 01, 2015, 06:30:39 AM »
The perfect job can also be just as much money, plus provide meaning to your life.  After you win the lottery you still have to fill your days with something.  Imagine the perfect job pays you more money than the lottery, plus facilitates whatever your dream is. 

If your dream is sitting on the sofa and watching tv every day, then your perfect job pays you to do that, plus provides a personal assistant to fetch you snacks, and upgrades your TV and sound system for you every six months, plus TV executives take your phone calls and ask for your opinions on which shows they should cancel vs keep.  It's all the good parts of winning the lottery, plus more.

I don't believe in the idea of a perfect job . . . hence my vote.

1.  You're relying on someone else to give you money in any job.  That makes it imperfect for me.  Being able to decide what and when I do whenever I want to do it is very important.

2.  I'm limiting my concept of 'perfect job' to reality.  Your example of a perfect job isn't realistic.

3.  I'm assuming that my tastes have changed over time, and will continue to change . . . so what was once a dream job may not be in ten or fifteen years.  Then I'm stuck slogging it out.

4.  I don't need much money to live.  If I were to win a huge lottery amount, I can donate a lot of it to causes I believe in.  I believe that a well run organization with a good injection of cash can do more in many fields than a single person with a good job.  So, I would be able to better effect the world positively.

5.  When you need to work for money, even things you love get tedious.  I used to love programming.  After ten years of mandatory eight hours a day programming stuff . . . meh.  I'm a generalist.  I get interested by different things, spend a lot of energy learning about them and getting better at them, then get to a point where I want to do something else.  Hence why I don't believe that a single dream job exists.

6.  You are assuming that a magical job is the key to happiness.  Sometimes working hard on a problem and solving it is awesome, and does make me happy.  Sometimes hanging out with my son does the same.  Sometimes spending time with family does this (sometimes it does the polar opposite).  Work for pay is not the only path to happiness, and I'm sad for you that you believe this to be the case.



My 2 cents.

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Re: Would you rather win the lottery or have the perfect job?
« Reply #43 on: June 01, 2015, 07:39:33 AM »
The perfect job can also be just as much money, plus provide meaning to your life.  After you win the lottery you still have to fill your days with something.  Imagine the perfect job pays you more money than the lottery, plus facilitates whatever your dream is. 

If your dream is sitting on the sofa and watching tv every day, then your perfect job pays you to do that, plus provides a personal assistant to fetch you snacks, and upgrades your TV and sound system for you every six months, plus TV executives take your phone calls and ask for your opinions on which shows they should cancel vs keep.  It's all the good parts of winning the lottery, plus more.

I don't believe in the idea of a perfect job . . . hence my vote.

1.  You're relying on someone else to give you money in any job.  That makes it imperfect for me.  Being able to decide what and when I do whenever I want to do it is very important.

2.  I'm limiting my concept of 'perfect job' to reality.  Your example of a perfect job isn't realistic.

3.  I'm assuming that my tastes have changed over time, and will continue to change . . . so what was once a dream job may not be in ten or fifteen years.  Then I'm stuck slogging it out.

4.  I don't need much money to live.  If I were to win a huge lottery amount, I can donate a lot of it to causes I believe in.  I believe that a well run organization with a good injection of cash can do more in many fields than a single person with a good job.  So, I would be able to better effect the world positively.

5.  When you need to work for money, even things you love get tedious.  I used to love programming.  After ten years of mandatory eight hours a day programming stuff . . . meh.  I'm a generalist.  I get interested by different things, spend a lot of energy learning about them and getting better at them, then get to a point where I want to do something else.  Hence why I don't believe that a single dream job exists.

6.  You are assuming that a magical job is the key to happiness.  Sometimes working hard on a problem and solving it is awesome, and does make me happy.  Sometimes hanging out with my son does the same.  Sometimes spending time with family does this (sometimes it does the polar opposite).  Work for pay is not the only path to happiness, and I'm sad for you that you believe this to be the case.



My 2 cents.

This is very similar to my thinking. Especially since I like to work on different issues for awhile and then change to something else. That's one thing about most jobs that makes it hard for someone like me to find something and be successful at it because most people want you to specialize in one particular thing and do that for 35 years. Whereas I have many interests and skills that can be applied to many domains. But I want my work to be oriented towards improving the world in particular ways. And in the real world there are so many other constraints to the kind of work I'd like to do. The Venn diagram for all of those things ends up with very little or nothing in the center as best as I can tell.

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Re: Would you rather win the lottery or have the perfect job?
« Reply #44 on: June 01, 2015, 08:24:03 AM »
I feel like this question really boils down to whether you'd rather be rich or be happy, and you're all choosing rich?

I disagree. To me the question boils down to whether I'd like to be immediately free to do whatever I want (taking as much time off as I want, doing whatever work I choose on whatever schedule I choose for as long as it holds my interest, etc, etc) or if I'd rather be reliant on a job to give me my living and have to abide by its schedule rather than my own.

Even if I owned a successful company as my "perfect job," I'd still have to manage it and work at it and dedicate my time to it. If I didn't actually work at my company and just went and did whatever with the earnings after hiring people to do all the work for me, then why didn't I just pick the lottery?

I always loved working on computers, and to me that was my dream job. So I got a job doing just that. But now I don't like working on my computers at home, even on the weekends. Because after 40 hours daily of solving computer problems, the last thing I want to do any more of is that. For me, once a hobby becomes a job it tends not to be enjoyable as a hobby any more, and I'd much rather have a hobby (working out solutions to MY problems) than a job (working out solutions to OTHERS' problems).

If I quit my current job, I'd probably be way more likely to offer to help friends and family members with their computers, too, but as it stands I just want them to stop asking me computer stuff because I already did that ALL DAY and I want something else to think about and occupy my time with. So again, lottery wins here because I could live off that money and be far more open to helping people in my life, which would end up far more personally rewarding than just helping strangers.

I just don't see why you think the only option if you pick the lottery is to literally do nothing all day.

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Re: Would you rather win the lottery or have the perfect job?
« Reply #45 on: June 01, 2015, 08:39:19 AM »
I think one key to keeping something a passion is to keep it your choice to do it. At least for many people. Sam's computer anecdote is one example. My dad builds things but hates it when my mom asks him to build things. My job is another example where it was something I had (and still have) interest in, but now my mindset is altered by knowing how difficult it is to get anything done, and all the obstacles that stand in my way, and having to be distracted by all the overhead and then already being tired by the time I get to the part I enjoy. While it may not be realistic, people see money as a way to avoid a lot of the stuff they don't want to do and focus on what the do want to do. I also think it's important that we still do at least some of the stuff we don't want to do in order to keep us from getting to soft and lazy and disconnected from the reality of others.

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Re: Would you rather win the lottery or have the perfect job?
« Reply #46 on: June 01, 2015, 09:04:43 AM »
The perfect job for me would be King.  So the lottery would be pretty irrelevant at that point.   

My real answer is lottery enough to generate 150K per year.   There are no perfect jobs and I'm sure I could find an imperfect one very fulfilling if I set my own parameters.   

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Re: Would you rather win the lottery or have the perfect job?
« Reply #47 on: June 01, 2015, 09:19:03 AM »
[The point of FIRE is to give you the means to do the work that you find fulfilling, not to give you the means to sit on your fat fucking ass all day every day until you die of diabetes and loneliness.

It may be the point of -your- FIRE to find and do work that you find fulfilling. But the two choices aren't "Work until you're dead - but be fulfilled!" and "Sit on your fat ass until you die." With - I'm guessing from your tone of judgment, working until you die being the virtuous choice and sitting on your fat ass until you die being the non-virtuous choice.

The vast majority of people in the world are not heroes. It wasn't as if I thought about my life and said: "Well, I could be an accountant OR I could change the world!" And I only chose to be an accountant because no one would pay me to change the world. It wasn't ever like that for me.

FIRE is about living my best life - maximizing my enjoyment, my time. My goal is to live in and experience this world - not change it. Oh, I might contribute time, money and energy to causes that I appreciate - but this is not my primary focus.

For example, I volunteer with the local branch of Master Gardeners and specifically dedicate a lot of time to Monarch Watch. We have a huge demonstration garden. I could go there and garden every single day. I could garden until I'm exhausted, but fulfilled because I made a difference! Or, I could stay home and garden at my own house and spend the afternoons sitting on the porch, enjoying a cold beverage and admiring nature. Most days, I choose to stay home.

I FIRE'd so that I could tend my own garden.

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Re: Would you rather win the lottery or have the perfect job?
« Reply #48 on: June 01, 2015, 09:20:34 AM »
Perfect job.

Because I assume such job is pays well enough I can do what I want, and gives me enough vacation time that I can do it when I want, but is also a great match for my skills with wonderful coworkers/superiors so that I am rewarded and fulfilled in the work.


Too many lottery winners end up broke and depressed.  I'd rather have the perfect source of income continuously.


But perfect doesn't exist.  No job is super well paying, offers tons of vacation time, is low stress and fulfilling. It just doesn't happen. If it were that great, it wouldn't be called work.

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Re: Would you rather win the lottery or have the perfect job?
« Reply #49 on: June 01, 2015, 09:26:43 AM »
This thread got pretty interesting, especially Cressida and Sol's 'applied Mustachian' observations.  I think people don't actually know what they want, and a big part of that is due to being young (not that I'm old enough to know, really). 

In reality, lots of young lottery winners / dream job finders end up self-destructing, so neither answer is 100% foolproof.  (I'm glad everyone didn't just cheat on the thought experiment and put unrealistic / non-existent  extremes forward like paid more than a lottery winning for doing nothing or super-rich but stuck doing that job forever).

So, to make this sound trite, try to also find joy in the journey and making progress to this dream.  Don't torture yourself trying to get to some imaginary finish line 'way ahead of schedule', because happiness isn't some exponential curve that keeps going up, it stays high when you hit FI but levels off.  From what I can tell, FIRE is a wonderful gift, but you still have lots you still have to do, even if it is just for physical exercise and mental health. 

As for me, I hated my first job and would've picked lottery in a heartbeat in my 20's.  For the last 8 years, I've had a pretty freakin' good gig.  It pays more than I need (as long as I don't go 'consumer sucka', which wouldn't make me happy) and has taken my family to Norway and Dubai for years at a time, all expenses paid (as expats).  I don't think I could've even made this dream job up, yet I have it.  So why would I want to win the lottery now?  To have a pile of money that I didn't work for (and a big target painted on my back)?  No thanks!   Instead, I can't be appreciative enough to have had a perfect job that got me to FI and allows me to choose when I want to ER.

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!