Author Topic: Ways to engineer plastic out of your life  (Read 9708 times)

Josiecat22222

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Ways to engineer plastic out of your life
« on: March 04, 2023, 06:01:39 PM »
Like many others, I am concerned by the amount of plastic used to do "normal" household activities.  I have been working to find ways to use or make alternate products which have the side benefit of being cheaper.  Here are a few things I've done and would love to hear what others are doing:

Make my own dish detergent for dishwasher: using a ratio of 2:2:1:1 mix borax, washing soda, salt and citric acid, use 1.5T per load (we used to hand wash everything, but by running the machine on the eco setting, it uses less water and impact on electric has been minimal)

Make my own laundry detergent : again using borax and washing soda and a grated bar of Fels Naptha

Use bar shampoo: this one takes a bit to get used to as you have to go through a "detox" as all of the silicones and other buildup from conventional shampoo get washed out, but my hair is now softer than it has ever been and I only have to wash twice a week.  Occasionally use apple cider vinegar as a rinse

Use a safety razor, all metal with stainless steel blades instead of my prior Gilette Venus


Heckler

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Re: Ways to engineer plastic out of your life
« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2023, 06:41:32 PM »
We have a 5 gallon bucket of homemade laundry detergent, refilling the same two Sunlight jugs for the last ten years at least!

Also:

- cleaned ziplock and vacuum bags hanging off the fridge drying for reuse.
- silicone flat lids over bowls or pots instead of handiwrap in the fridge.
- waxed cloth wraps around bowls/cups/onions/tomatoes etc instead of handiwrap.
- never a plastic water bottle purchased, refill metal ones from the tap instead.
- put snow tires on the car 5 years ago, kept on all year, just don't drive it!  Treads are 50% now.
- buy drinks in cans instead of plastic bottles.
- SodaStream for bubbly tap water - still want to engineer the expensive AF cylinders out, and use a larger one.
- we just got safety razors for X-mas, with machined aluminum handles.  Love them, but not sure how to dispose of the blades!?  Can they be sharpened?

draco44

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Re: Ways to engineer plastic out of your life
« Reply #2 on: March 04, 2023, 07:08:18 PM »
Nice going! For more ideas on plastic-free living I suggest checking out https://myplasticfreelife.com/. I also recently checked out the book A Poison Like No Other: How Microplastics Corrupted Our Planet and Our Bodies from my public library and even for someone who's been thinking about this stuff for years, there was a lot of newer research findings in there that I hadn't heard about before.

I reuse the plastic items I already own (like cleaning and air drying plastic baggies I bought ??? many years ago) and then not buy plastic for new purchases.

- Reusable water bottles
- dryer balls rather than dryer sheets for the rare times I use the dryer, and a secondhand folding clothes drying rack for when I don't.
- Refusing free plastic thingamajigs at conferences/expos because I don't need them. Not even the free pens - I have enough already.
- I don't make my own laundry detergent, but I use less than the suggested amount (cleans the same) to stretch it out, and just recently as I was about to consider buying more, someone in my local Buy Nothing group gave away a jug of my preferred brand.
- Streamlining the amount of cleaning and toiletry/skincare products I use, so fewer containers are needed, and purchasing eco-friendly options when I need to but more of something. And making some of my own basic cleaning supplies, either with product concentrate blocks you mix with water, or doing things like putting 50:50 water and rubbing alcohol in a reusable spray bottle to clean some surfaces.
- Avoiding synthetic fibers when I purchase clothing. I do like synthetic performance fabrics for hiking and workout gear, but will buy outdoorsy clothes secondhand from REI, have sourced some workout gear from clothing swaps, and buy new synthetics from companies that have takeback programs for recycling.
- Not buying stuff in general. It seems like the majority of impulse buy doodads or decor items are made of plastic.
- Drinking tap water.
- Making things last by mending them. I have a polyester backpack, for example, that burst a seam, and I sewed it back up again.
- storing leftover food in glass Pyrex containers.
- On the rare occasions I get things dry-cleaned, I return the hangars for reuse and cut the plastic bags in half for reuse as trash can liners (I keep a smaller trashcan).
- keeping a set of reusable stainless steel cutlery and a few dishes at work.
- Ordering toilet paper in bulk plastic-free from Who Gives A Crap?
- Emaling companies if they have gobs of plastic packaging to please change that.

One thing I want to do better at is bringing my own container to bring home leftovers from restaurants. I don't eat out much and keep forgetting when I do.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2023, 07:11:27 PM by draco44 »

Josiecat22222

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Re: Ways to engineer plastic out of your life
« Reply #3 on: March 05, 2023, 04:48:58 AM »
@draco44, thanks for the book recommendation; I will check it out!  We also rinse and reuse baggies (unless they had raw meat) and I also reuse bags from bread, tortillas, etc and do not use plastic wrap at all, but favor aluminum foil.

I think another point well made is not picking up free knickknacks, even pens.  I think I learned on this forum that the first R in Reduce, Reuse, Recycle is Refuse
-like you, do not use a dryer, so no dryer sheets
-also agree on minimizing makeup/using beauty products - In fact I got reusable cotton rounds for applying eye makeup remover, nail polish remover, etc (back when I wore those things....)
-agree with reusable water bottles, AND not collecting them like they are disposable!

However, I still struggle with:
plastic clamshells for produce at grocery
hand soap containers
vitamin containers
and other items which seam to ONLY come in plastic. 

It is a journey, and I'm trying to make steps where I can.

stoaX

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Re: Ways to engineer plastic out of your life
« Reply #4 on: March 05, 2023, 06:27:17 AM »
PTF.  I gotta get better at reducing the amount of plastic that flows in and out of my home.

Metalcat

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Re: Ways to engineer plastic out of your life
« Reply #5 on: March 05, 2023, 07:07:42 AM »
We're pretty good. We've never intentionally tried to reduce plastic, but our general frugality tends to do it for us.

We've never used plastic bags, wrap, disposable water bottles, grocery bags, etc.

-We buy cleaning supplies from a store where you can just go fill up your own containers, and I buy some concentrated cleaners that last years
-We buy a ton of our food from Bulk Barn, and buy foods with minimal packaging in general, and we don't use produce bags
-Neither of us use shampoo or conditioner, just water
-No soap dispensers or body wash, just bar soap
-Mininal makeup use, and what I do use is an eyebrow pencil and a liquid blush/lip stain on a glass bottle. So both have plastic lids, but also last for at least a year or two, and I use coconut oil as makeup remover, I have a giant tub that's lasted many years
-Minimal clothes that leach microplastics, mostly merino wool
-DH uses an electric razor, I use an epilator, and had my armpits lasered

Our big plastic culprit is yogurt containers. We go though a ton of yogurt containers. Otherwise pill bottles, sunscreen bottles, and toothpaste tubes, and toothbrush heads are the only frequently disposed of plastics in the house.

Infrequently we have a plastic bag from something like sugar or rice, dog food, a plastic jug when cooking oil runs out, etc. But we buy huge volumes of those things, so it's not frequent.

Josiecat22222

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Re: Ways to engineer plastic out of your life
« Reply #6 on: March 05, 2023, 08:25:01 AM »
@Metalcat, I'm so jealous of your Bulk Barn!!  We don't have those here.  Nor do we have the store where you can get cleaning supplies by bringing your own container, because I would do that!  We're minimalists on all that stuff, so one product is used for multiple purposes, but I still hate throwing away any plastic bottles.

I hear you on the yogurt.  My best workaround so far is to buy milk from local farm in glass bottles which can then be returned and refilled to them and to then use my instapot to make yogurt which I then store in my mason jars.  It's not much hassle and if you can get ultrapasteurized milk it is stupid easy, but the milk is definitely more expensive than the store bought in plastic jugs.

Metalcat

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Re: Ways to engineer plastic out of your life
« Reply #7 on: March 05, 2023, 08:32:19 AM »
@Metalcat, I'm so jealous of your Bulk Barn!!  We don't have those here.  Nor do we have the store where you can get cleaning supplies by bringing your own container, because I would do that!  We're minimalists on all that stuff, so one product is used for multiple purposes, but I still hate throwing away any plastic bottles.

I hear you on the yogurt.  My best workaround so far is to buy milk from local farm in glass bottles which can then be returned and refilled to them and to then use my instapot to make yogurt which I then store in my mason jars.  It's not much hassle and if you can get ultrapasteurized milk it is stupid easy, but the milk is definitely more expensive than the store bought in plastic jugs.

Yeah, I've tried making yogurt, and everyone says it's so easy, but I find it a huge pain in the ass. Also, I can get yogurt ridiculously cheap from the ethnic grocer, and it's very hard to find milk in glass here, we have it in bags. So I would end up spending a significant premium to make it myself, which I hate doing.

This is one case where my dislike of plastics is outweighed by the benefits of buying the plastic. At least it's recyclable, but that's not much of a comfort. Still, I take comfort in just how little plastic we use overall, especially single use, non recyclable plastics.

JupiterGreen

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Re: Ways to engineer plastic out of your life
« Reply #8 on: March 05, 2023, 09:30:24 AM »
@Josiecat23503 what is washing soda?
These are fantastic! We do most of the above. As far as clothes go acrylic, polyester, and nylon are all made with plastic and petroleum as @draco44 mentioned. I've added a few. Anyway, here is the list so far:

- CSA or use the app flashfood, you can get a box of veggies/fruits (piggybacking on the bulk idea)
- don't buy any clothes/blankets etc made with synthetics especially acrylic, polyester, and nylon
- make pet toys out of old clothes (use old fabric to make balls and mice, you can grow catnip)
- beeswax wrap
- Make own dish detergent for dishwasher: using a ratio of 2:2:1:1 mix borax, washing soda, salt and citric acid, use 1.5T per load
- Make my own laundry detergent : again using borax and washing soda and a grated bar of Fels Naptha
- Use bar shampoo
- use a safety razor
- cleaned ziplock and vacuum bags hanging off the fridge drying for reuse.
- silicone flat lids over bowls or pots instead of handiwrap in the fridge.
- waxed cloth wraps around bowls/cups/onions/tomatoes etc instead of handiwrap.
- put snow tires on the car
- buy drinks in cans instead of plastic bottles.
- SodaStream for bubbly tap water
- Reusable water bottles
- dryer balls rather than dryer sheets for the rare times I use the dryer
- Refusing free plastic thingamajigs at conferences/expos
- Streamlining the amount of cleaning and toiletry/skincare products
- make own basic cleaning supplies with product concentrate blocks, 50:50 water and rubbing alcohol in a reusable spray bottle
- Buy secondhand clothes and buy new synthetics from companies that have take back programs for recycling.
- Not buying stuff in general.
- Making things last by mending them.
- storing leftover food in glass Pyrex containers.
- return dryclean hangars for reuse and cut the plastic bags in half for reuse as trash can liners
- keep a set of reusable stainless steel cutlery and a few dishes at work.
- Ordering toilet paper in bulk plastic-free from Who Gives A Crap?
- Emaling companies if they have gobs of plastic packaging to please change that.
- reusable cotton rounds for applying eye makeup remover
- Buy bulk cleaning supplies (where you can just go fill up your own containers)
- Buy food from a place like Bulk Barn, and buy foods with minimal packaging in general, don't use produce bags
- use no shampoo or conditioner, just water
- No soap dispensers or body wash, just bar soap
- glass bottle for make-up and coconut oil as makeup remover


sixwings

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Re: Ways to engineer plastic out of your life
« Reply #9 on: March 06, 2023, 09:44:16 AM »
Tru earth has a bunch of zero waste products that are really great, we use their laundry strips and several other products and really like them. We also use the multi surface cleaner strips that we dissolve into glass spray bottles and we've been trying the dishwasher tabs but there's another company that we like better I just can't remember the name of it.

Also I have a bunch of cotton reusable shopping bags and cotton resuable produce and bulk bags that I just keep in my car for when I'm grocery shopping. I buy milk in glass jugs, it's more expensive but I only use it in oatmeal so the difference is negligible, I've got a reusable bag and a big tin that I put bread from my local bakery in, and I only buy meat from my local butcher that comes in butcher paper (i think it's wax lined?). I've dramatically cut down on the amount of plastic I generate from my groceries. Most weeks there's almost none. I do however end up visiting anywhere from 3-5 stores to get all the stuff I need plastic free. Also stuff like meat and bread is more expensive, especially the meat, but that's fine because then I just eat less of it which is even better for the planet. I think generally more convenient 1 stop stores like costco or other big grocery stores/retailers make it harder to avoid plastic. I go to a big grocery store, a bakery, a butcher, a bulk food store (although my big grocery store near by has a decent bulk section), a small deli for cheeses, etc. So it's definitely less convenient but does give me a lot more exercise. I'll typically spend a couple of hours biking to all the stores I need to visit, luckily they are all quite close to each other.

There's a company here named Lush, not sure if it's more global, but it's really easy to get zero waste products from them like soap, shampoo bars, etc. I really like their products. I have both shampoo and conditioner bars and find they work really well on my (short) hair. They also have conditioner and such in plastic containers that you can return to them and they will reuse them which is good.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2023, 10:36:27 AM by sixwings »

Josiecat22222

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Re: Ways to engineer plastic out of your life
« Reply #10 on: March 06, 2023, 02:18:14 PM »
@JupiterGreen , washing soda is sodium carbonate.  It is sold in the US by the arm and hammer company who also make baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) it is a compound which is used in DIY cleaning compounds.  I attached a link here which describes it better than I can.

https://www.thespruce.com/what-is-washing-soda-2145888

If you are interested, thespruce.com has great ideas on DIY dishwasher detergent and laundry detergent and others

Kmp2

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Re: Ways to engineer plastic out of your life
« Reply #11 on: March 06, 2023, 02:48:47 PM »
Well done everyone!

We've been reducing plastic use for a while now, and while we still occasionally buy things like seran wrap and plastic baggies, they last for ever as we use them rarely.

Our bathroom is mostly all plastic free (bar soap/shampoo, refillable foaming hand soap, compostable toilet scrubbers, safety razors etc.)
Just toothpaste, those darn floss thingy's for kids and the plastic around TP left.

Kitchen is also pretty good (refillable dish/dishwasher soap, compostable scrubbers & swedish cloths, bulk barn, prioritizing zero waste snacks (homemade))
When we do buy plastic we try to use the largest containers - like yogurt.
I really like https://zerowastechef.com/ for ideas.

Where we struggle is kids stuff (toys, OMG!), no amount of gift rules with the extended family have helped. And unfortunately things don't last... sometimes the plastic toys they get last a few days.
And clothes, microplastics from laundry are crazy! As much as possible we go for natural fabrics, but the kids like fleece and not wool. It's so nice to have natural fabrics they can go so much longer between washings and smell so much better!



Josiecat22222

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Re: Ways to engineer plastic out of your life
« Reply #12 on: March 06, 2023, 03:32:03 PM »
@Kmp2 - I couldn't agree more about the clothes! WHY DOES NO ONE TALK ABOUT THIS?? We love natural fibers, particularly cotton, linen and merino wool, but our teenage son does a lot of watersports and likes "performance" gear.  It is unbelievable how stinky that stuff gets!!!!

Tucandream

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Re: Ways to engineer plastic out of your life
« Reply #13 on: March 14, 2023, 10:23:55 AM »
I recently did a blog round-up post on how to make your kitchen more eco-friendly (not specifically reduce plastic, but that's a huge part of it).

https://tucandream.com/how-to-make-my-kitchen-more-eco-friendly/

It's completely ridiculous how much plastic has woven into every nook and cranny of our lives. I believe being aware and really striving to minimize it working into your house is the biggest solution.  Truly look at every purchase-ordering from Amazon? Think about all that plastic it's coming in. 

srrb

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Re: Ways to engineer plastic out of your life
« Reply #14 on: March 14, 2023, 03:10:53 PM »
I think we do pretty well in our household simply by being minimalist, and I appreciate the ideas in this thread to help be more intentional. One of our next actions is to buy cleaning supplies (house & body) from a local distributor who will fill up your plastic containers. She doesn't care which containers, just sells by volume/weight/counts. Underlying her goal of less plastic are also ideals of local, no animal testing, and environmental impact.

Just Joe

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Re: Ways to engineer plastic out of your life
« Reply #15 on: March 24, 2023, 12:23:37 PM »
Start a garden and shop at the farmer's market. Seems like everything - even the fresh foods - come in plastic packaging at the grocery in 2023.

We (humanity) knows there is a problem. Can't believe we (collectively) aren't doing something about it.

Smog was a problem, global warming is a problem, etc - and much of the world has stepped up with solutions (imperfect as they are).

The "Bulk Barn" that Metalcat mentioned sounds like a great idea. A solution that utilizes your own containers or container exchanges like glass Coke bottles in year's past.

billygoatjohnson

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Re: Ways to engineer plastic out of your life
« Reply #16 on: March 24, 2023, 01:14:14 PM »
Ehh. To be honest unless we entirely stop using plastics I think the future generations are screwed. Sperm counts down 1% a year sense invention of plastics. So down 50%. People have a lot of problems having kids (everyone I know). Forever chemicals have traveled the globe through rain water, even the most remote places on earth.
https://www.sciencealert.com/nanoplastics-interfere-with-developing-chicken-embryos-in-terrifying-ways

https://theswaddle.com/microplastics-forever-chemicals-have-contaminated-rain-beyond-safe-levels-shows-study/#:~:text=A%20new%20study%20published%20earlier,and%20forever%20chemicals%20in%20rainwater.


Metalcat

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Re: Ways to engineer plastic out of your life
« Reply #17 on: March 24, 2023, 01:17:53 PM »
Ehh. To be honest unless we entirely stop using plastics I think the future generations are screwed. Sperm counts down 1% a year sense invention of plastics. So down 50%. People have a lot of problems having kids (everyone I know). Forever chemicals have traveled the globe through rain water, even the most remote places on earth.
https://www.sciencealert.com/nanoplastics-interfere-with-developing-chicken-embryos-in-terrifying-ways

https://theswaddle.com/microplastics-forever-chemicals-have-contaminated-rain-beyond-safe-levels-shows-study/#:~:text=A%20new%20study%20published%20earlier,and%20forever%20chemicals%20in%20rainwater.

This is not a good reason to not reduce plastics though...

It's not like it's an on-off switch, degree of damage matters.

billygoatjohnson

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Re: Ways to engineer plastic out of your life
« Reply #18 on: March 24, 2023, 01:37:50 PM »
Ehh. To be honest unless we entirely stop using plastics I think the future generations are screwed. Sperm counts down 1% a year sense invention of plastics. So down 50%. People have a lot of problems having kids (everyone I know). Forever chemicals have traveled the globe through rain water, even the most remote places on earth.
https://www.sciencealert.com/nanoplastics-interfere-with-developing-chicken-embryos-in-terrifying-ways

https://theswaddle.com/microplastics-forever-chemicals-have-contaminated-rain-beyond-safe-levels-shows-study/#:~:text=A%20new%20study%20published%20earlier,and%20forever%20chemicals%20in%20rainwater.

This is not a good reason to not reduce plastics though...

It's not like it's an on-off switch, degree of damage matters.

I agree, I do everything I can to make this world a better place. Totally agree, however, 7 billion people, most people couldn't care less. For example my own parents. I've told them all of this, saying do it for your grand children. My father still buys plastic water bottles by the case, even though he has tons of reusable stainless bottles and awesome drinking water...

50% of the population is obese, people have zero will power nor care about their health, or environment, look at the population driving SUVs or pick ups. When I went to Thailand their water pipes are so bad that 100% of their drinking water comes from bottled water. Also plastic bags galore because street food. We take 1 step forward, but 4 steps back. We are buying ourselves a couple years here and there.

Metalcat

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Re: Ways to engineer plastic out of your life
« Reply #19 on: March 24, 2023, 02:15:55 PM »
Ehh. To be honest unless we entirely stop using plastics I think the future generations are screwed. Sperm counts down 1% a year sense invention of plastics. So down 50%. People have a lot of problems having kids (everyone I know). Forever chemicals have traveled the globe through rain water, even the most remote places on earth.
https://www.sciencealert.com/nanoplastics-interfere-with-developing-chicken-embryos-in-terrifying-ways

https://theswaddle.com/microplastics-forever-chemicals-have-contaminated-rain-beyond-safe-levels-shows-study/#:~:text=A%20new%20study%20published%20earlier,and%20forever%20chemicals%20in%20rainwater.

This is not a good reason to not reduce plastics though...

It's not like it's an on-off switch, degree of damage matters.

I agree, I do everything I can to make this world a better place. Totally agree, however, 7 billion people, most people couldn't care less. For example my own parents. I've told them all of this, saying do it for your grand children. My father still buys plastic water bottles by the case, even though he has tons of reusable stainless bottles and awesome drinking water...

50% of the population is obese, people have zero will power nor care about their health, or environment, look at the population driving SUVs or pick ups. When I went to Thailand their water pipes are so bad that 100% of their drinking water comes from bottled water. Also plastic bags galore because street food. We take 1 step forward, but 4 steps back. We are buying ourselves a couple years here and there.

Sure. I mean, in my profession my job was to give medical advice that people generally ignore. Still, it would have been an ethical offense not to give it.

This is a thread about ways to engineer plastic out of our lives, measures that individuals *can* take. What point are you trying to make by talking about how fucked we already are.

Are you under the impression that we're all clueless and naive and think that our personal measures are going to magically save the world?

I don't know about everyone else who has posted so far, but I'm certainly not that ignorant.

I mean, this would kind of be like coming into a thread about weight loss where people talk about their personal success at losing weight and then saying "y'know, the vast majority of people who try diets fail."

Josiecat22222

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Re: Ways to engineer plastic out of your life
« Reply #20 on: March 24, 2023, 04:34:37 PM »
Thank you @Metalcat.  I could not have said it better.

I personally do NOT subscribe to the philosophy that we should throw up our hands in despair.  The effects of these things are cumulative.  Are my decisions to get rid of a car, eat a vegetarian diet and avoid single use plastic futile?  Do they amount to a drop in the literal bucket?  Maybe.  That said, I've never been a quitter.  I firmly believe that personal responsibility and community action are the only paths towards making the world a better place.

     In addition, there is power in influencing others to make changes by modeling them.  By using only reusable bags, water bottles, avoiding liquid soap and detergent, etc., I am modeling this behavior to my family and my friends and my community.  By voting people into office who share my values I am helping to support legislation which will continue to drive change.

   I'm certain that at the outset of the Civil Rights battle here in the US, the odds seemed insurmountable.  Overt racism in schooling, employment and homeownership was the norm. However, through the advocacy and actions of a dedicated minority, the world has become a fairer more equitable place.  That doesn't mean the job is done; there is more progress to be made for sure.  However, if a few dedicated people hadn't stood up to make a change, nothing would have been accomplished.   How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time.

billygoatjohnson

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Re: Ways to engineer plastic out of your life
« Reply #21 on: March 25, 2023, 11:29:12 AM »
Ehh. To be honest unless we entirely stop using plastics I think the future generations are screwed. Sperm counts down 1% a year sense invention of plastics. So down 50%. People have a lot of problems having kids (everyone I know). Forever chemicals have traveled the globe through rain water, even the most remote places on earth.
https://www.sciencealert.com/nanoplastics-interfere-with-developing-chicken-embryos-in-terrifying-ways

https://theswaddle.com/microplastics-forever-chemicals-have-contaminated-rain-beyond-safe-levels-shows-study/#:~:text=A%20new%20study%20published%20earlier,and%20forever%20chemicals%20in%20rainwater.

This is not a good reason to not reduce plastics though...

It's not like it's an on-off switch, degree of damage matters.

I agree, I do everything I can to make this world a better place. Totally agree, however, 7 billion people, most people couldn't care less. For example my own parents. I've told them all of this, saying do it for your grand children. My father still buys plastic water bottles by the case, even though he has tons of reusable stainless bottles and awesome drinking water...

50% of the population is obese, people have zero will power nor care about their health, or environment, look at the population driving SUVs or pick ups. When I went to Thailand their water pipes are so bad that 100% of their drinking water comes from bottled water. Also plastic bags galore because street food. We take 1 step forward, but 4 steps back. We are buying ourselves a couple years here and there.

Sure. I mean, in my profession my job was to give medical advice that people generally ignore. Still, it would have been an ethical offense not to give it.

This is a thread about ways to engineer plastic out of our lives, measures that individuals *can* take. What point are you trying to make by talking about how fucked we already are.

Are you under the impression that we're all clueless and naive and think that our personal measures are going to magically save the world?

I don't know about everyone else who has posted so far, but I'm certainly not that ignorant.

I mean, this would kind of be like coming into a thread about weight loss where people talk about their personal success at losing weight and then saying "y'know, the vast majority of people who try diets fail."

Good luck https://www.visualcapitalist.com/cp/visualized-ocean-plastic-waste-pollution-by-country/

EchoStache

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Re: Ways to engineer plastic out of your life
« Reply #22 on: March 25, 2023, 12:08:07 PM »
My family and I have a long long long long long way to go to reduce plastic.

Some significant changes we *have* made:

We now recycle(for the past year or so).  It is sickening how much plastic we recycle.  Especially noticeable is the amount of plastic "wrap"....stuff that can't go into the normal recycle but has to be brought to the grocery story.  I drove it away today and it filled the entire receptacle at the store. :(  At least it didn't go into the landfill, but I know we can do a lot better to reduce the amount we consume that therefore needs to be recycled.

Wife and I very seldom get any plastic bags from the store as we have re-usable shopping bags.  The kids have so far made no effort to reduce the plastic shopping bags.  I need to encourage them and make sure they all have a couple of shopping bags in their cars.

We don't use (many) plastic ziplock bags.  Mainly re-usable storage bags in both zipper, non plastic variety but also some rubber type ziplock that are reusable.  Also transitioning to glass containers for food storage, although they all have plastic lids that don't last forever. 

We are probably 85% compliant with recycling.....have to work on getting the kids a little more diligent in their efforts.

My pet peeve is grabbing 1 item from the store for whatever reason on the way home from work, and the clerk *always* tries to put the single item in a plastic bag......AAARRRRGGGGH!

At this point, I don't understand why we don't have legislation making plastic shopping bags illegal.  Either switch to paper and charge for them, and/or transition our society(USA) into using all reusable shopping bags.  Otherwise you pay for them anyways every time.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2023, 12:19:19 PM by UltraStache »

Metalcat

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Re: Ways to engineer plastic out of your life
« Reply #23 on: March 25, 2023, 01:02:19 PM »
Ehh. To be honest unless we entirely stop using plastics I think the future generations are screwed. Sperm counts down 1% a year sense invention of plastics. So down 50%. People have a lot of problems having kids (everyone I know). Forever chemicals have traveled the globe through rain water, even the most remote places on earth.
https://www.sciencealert.com/nanoplastics-interfere-with-developing-chicken-embryos-in-terrifying-ways

https://theswaddle.com/microplastics-forever-chemicals-have-contaminated-rain-beyond-safe-levels-shows-study/#:~:text=A%20new%20study%20published%20earlier,and%20forever%20chemicals%20in%20rainwater.

This is not a good reason to not reduce plastics though...

It's not like it's an on-off switch, degree of damage matters.

I agree, I do everything I can to make this world a better place. Totally agree, however, 7 billion people, most people couldn't care less. For example my own parents. I've told them all of this, saying do it for your grand children. My father still buys plastic water bottles by the case, even though he has tons of reusable stainless bottles and awesome drinking water...

50% of the population is obese, people have zero will power nor care about their health, or environment, look at the population driving SUVs or pick ups. When I went to Thailand their water pipes are so bad that 100% of their drinking water comes from bottled water. Also plastic bags galore because street food. We take 1 step forward, but 4 steps back. We are buying ourselves a couple years here and there.

Sure. I mean, in my profession my job was to give medical advice that people generally ignore. Still, it would have been an ethical offense not to give it.

This is a thread about ways to engineer plastic out of our lives, measures that individuals *can* take. What point are you trying to make by talking about how fucked we already are.

Are you under the impression that we're all clueless and naive and think that our personal measures are going to magically save the world?

I don't know about everyone else who has posted so far, but I'm certainly not that ignorant.

I mean, this would kind of be like coming into a thread about weight loss where people talk about their personal success at losing weight and then saying "y'know, the vast majority of people who try diets fail."

Good luck https://www.visualcapitalist.com/cp/visualized-ocean-plastic-waste-pollution-by-country/

Dude. So you're just going to triple down on basically calling me stupid??

Also, you're just going to ignore what I actually said??

Why? Why would you do that??

La Bibliotecaria Feroz

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Re: Ways to engineer plastic out of your life
« Reply #24 on: March 25, 2023, 03:23:09 PM »
@Josiecat23503 - Someone else had mentioned refillable foaming hand soap. For a while, we washed our hands with bar soap on concrete soap dishes, but I just didn't like it and I don't think the kids were lathering properly. So we switched to Blueland. We've had to replace the plastic pumps after a couple of years but otherwise we're really happy with it, and the pods come in compostable wrapping.

We recently switched to powder laundry detergent in a cardboard box (alas, it still comes with a plastic scoop)- I don't want to make our own because I prefer washing with detergent rather than soap (homemade "detergent" is actually soap).

I'm embarrassed how much fleece is on our house BUT I did buy some startlingly $$$ wool sleep sacks for the baby. They are designed to fit from 2 months to 2 years of age and be for year-round use, so hopefully these are the only two we ever need!

sixwings

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Re: Ways to engineer plastic out of your life
« Reply #25 on: March 28, 2023, 02:36:58 PM »
Ehh. To be honest unless we entirely stop using plastics I think the future generations are screwed. Sperm counts down 1% a year sense invention of plastics. So down 50%. People have a lot of problems having kids (everyone I know). Forever chemicals have traveled the globe through rain water, even the most remote places on earth.
https://www.sciencealert.com/nanoplastics-interfere-with-developing-chicken-embryos-in-terrifying-ways

https://theswaddle.com/microplastics-forever-chemicals-have-contaminated-rain-beyond-safe-levels-shows-study/#:~:text=A%20new%20study%20published%20earlier,and%20forever%20chemicals%20in%20rainwater.

This is not a good reason to not reduce plastics though...

It's not like it's an on-off switch, degree of damage matters.

I agree, I do everything I can to make this world a better place. Totally agree, however, 7 billion people, most people couldn't care less. For example my own parents. I've told them all of this, saying do it for your grand children. My father still buys plastic water bottles by the case, even though he has tons of reusable stainless bottles and awesome drinking water...

50% of the population is obese, people have zero will power nor care about their health, or environment, look at the population driving SUVs or pick ups. When I went to Thailand their water pipes are so bad that 100% of their drinking water comes from bottled water. Also plastic bags galore because street food. We take 1 step forward, but 4 steps back. We are buying ourselves a couple years here and there.

Sure. I mean, in my profession my job was to give medical advice that people generally ignore. Still, it would have been an ethical offense not to give it.

This is a thread about ways to engineer plastic out of our lives, measures that individuals *can* take. What point are you trying to make by talking about how fucked we already are.

Are you under the impression that we're all clueless and naive and think that our personal measures are going to magically save the world?

I don't know about everyone else who has posted so far, but I'm certainly not that ignorant.

I mean, this would kind of be like coming into a thread about weight loss where people talk about their personal success at losing weight and then saying "y'know, the vast majority of people who try diets fail."

Good luck https://www.visualcapitalist.com/cp/visualized-ocean-plastic-waste-pollution-by-country/

Well, first of all, this is ocean plastic, not all plastics, it would be interesting to see how much of these plastics are generated for the purpose of creating and packaging goods that are sent to the US/Europe. Also, good news, this is from the article:

Quote
The Path to a Plastic-free Ocean
The first, and most obvious, way to reduce plastic accumulation is to reduce the use of plastic. Lesser production equals lesser waste.

The second step is managing the plastic waste generated, and this is where the challenge lies.

Many high-income countries generate high amounts of plastic waste, but are either better at processing it or exporting it to other countries. Meanwhile, many of the middle-income and low-income countries that both demand plastics and receive bulk exports have yet to develop the infrastructure needed to process it.

We use less plastics, fewer plastics are used in the creation and distribution, and fewer plastics end up getting exported back to these countries for "disposal".

Kmp2

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Re: Ways to engineer plastic out of your life
« Reply #26 on: April 05, 2023, 03:39:52 PM »
Oh, I just finished a post-graduate degree in Sustainability, which included pollution courses. I wrote a paper about microplastics (focusing on laundry)... but I learned that much of North America's microplastics come from car tires... the driving/braking etc. grinds them up and the particles end up in our air, where they land everywhere and we breathe them in. So I guess I've since I've reduced my driving and bike (bike tires do have less plastic wear, as we weigh alot lesS) and walk more - I guess that's another way I've engineered less plastic in my life :D

BTW - You're all doing awesome, and I'm so jealous of the refillable milk in this post: https://tucandream.com/how-to-make-my-kitchen-more-eco-friendly/ from @Tucandream

Josiecat22222

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Re: Ways to engineer plastic out of your life
« Reply #27 on: April 23, 2023, 05:51:38 AM »
I don't know if you all are familiar, but I have just made an account with Terracycle, which is a large scale plastics recycler (among other things).  As you all know, less than 10% of plastic thrown in recycling bins is actually recycled, but some individual retailers will accept their products back to be recycled.  On Terracycle's page, I followed links to Rubbermaid (recycle food storage containers --even not theirs!!), Pantene, Colgate, etc. 

Just wanted to pass this on- they will email you a postage paid label and you can ship your plastic to them and they will recycle it.

Free and earth-friendly? That's my speed!

cannotWAIT

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Re: Ways to engineer plastic out of your life
« Reply #28 on: April 23, 2023, 12:19:58 PM »
@Kmp2 - I couldn't agree more about the clothes! WHY DOES NO ONE TALK ABOUT THIS?? We love natural fibers, particularly cotton, linen and merino wool, but our teenage son does a lot of watersports and likes "performance" gear.  It is unbelievable how stinky that stuff gets!!!!

Yes! I was in the Seattle REI mothership on Friday (a once-every-few-years event for me) and was commenting that this is a store full of plastic clothes. Like 95% of the entire clothing floor was synthetic. Granted an increasing amount is made from recycled plastic, but still.

I also wonder--and this might sound a little kooky if you haven't yet tried to pay attention to it yourself--how much of people's general irritability these days is enhanced by being clothed in plastics. Every time I find myself wearing something synthetic and then change into a natural fiber, I feel a very distinct ahhhhhhh. I don't know if it's a low grade statickiness or what but once I started paying attention it became very clear to me that synthetic clothes were making me feel a little irritable, even if they seemed to feel comfortable. Does anyone else notice this? As a result I have ruthlessly weeded out synthetics over the last few years and now all that's left is outwear, and even there I've managed to find a super cute and very warm waxed cotton parka from J.Crew and of course some lighter wool jackets.

Environmental motivations are good but if I'm honest, my strongest motivation for getting rid of plastic is aesthetic. My house and furnishings are the biggest issue for me. I have very convincing (but still plastic!) laminate floors, Corian (plastic!) countertops, a microfiber (plastic!) sofa, and polypropylene (plastic!) rugs. Replacing these just for the sake of aesthetics is worse than owning them in the first place and the replacements are super expensive. It's a dilemma.

sixwings

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Re: Ways to engineer plastic out of your life
« Reply #29 on: April 24, 2023, 11:07:52 AM »
@Kmp2 - I couldn't agree more about the clothes! WHY DOES NO ONE TALK ABOUT THIS?? We love natural fibers, particularly cotton, linen and merino wool, but our teenage son does a lot of watersports and likes "performance" gear.  It is unbelievable how stinky that stuff gets!!!!

Yes! I was in the Seattle REI mothership on Friday (a once-every-few-years event for me) and was commenting that this is a store full of plastic clothes. Like 95% of the entire clothing floor was synthetic. Granted an increasing amount is made from recycled plastic, but still.

I also wonder--and this might sound a little kooky if you haven't yet tried to pay attention to it yourself--how much of people's general irritability these days is enhanced by being clothed in plastics. Every time I find myself wearing something synthetic and then change into a natural fiber, I feel a very distinct ahhhhhhh. I don't know if it's a low grade statickiness or what but once I started paying attention it became very clear to me that synthetic clothes were making me feel a little irritable, even if they seemed to feel comfortable. Does anyone else notice this? As a result I have ruthlessly weeded out synthetics over the last few years and now all that's left is outwear, and even there I've managed to find a super cute and very warm waxed cotton parka from J.Crew and of course some lighter wool jackets.

Environmental motivations are good but if I'm honest, my strongest motivation for getting rid of plastic is aesthetic. My house and furnishings are the biggest issue for me. I have very convincing (but still plastic!) laminate floors, Corian (plastic!) countertops, a microfiber (plastic!) sofa, and polypropylene (plastic!) rugs. Replacing these just for the sake of aesthetics is worse than owning them in the first place and the replacements are super expensive. It's a dilemma.

My general take is that when I have plastic stuff because of prior decisions I made not taking into account the plastic considerings (like a rug), the best case scenario is not to replace it because it's plastic, it's to use it until it's no longer functional and then replace it. Plastic isn't necessariyl the problem, plastics has purposes, it's the culture of disposable plastics and single use plastic items that are really a problem. A plastic thing that you use every day for 20 years, like a rug that has plastics in it, isn't the problem, it's like the bananas and oranges that come wrapped in plastic, fast fashion and the role plastics play, etc.

hooplady

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Re: Ways to engineer plastic out of your life
« Reply #30 on: April 24, 2023, 06:09:37 PM »
My general take is that when I have plastic stuff because of prior decisions I made not taking into account the plastic considerings (like a rug), the best case scenario is not to replace it because it's plastic, it's to use it until it's no longer functional and then replace it. Plastic isn't necessariyl the problem, plastics has purposes, it's the culture of disposable plastics and single use plastic items that are really a problem. A plastic thing that you use every day for 20 years, like a rug that has plastics in it, isn't the problem, it's like the bananas and oranges that come wrapped in plastic, fast fashion and the role plastics play, etc.
I tend to agree. I bought a bunch of microfiber cleaning cloths a few years ago as a replacement for my other cleaning cloths which were mostly leftover cotton washcloths; I thought this was the Holy Grail for effective cleaning. I now know I was wrong, since microfiber gives off tiny bits of plastic every time it's washed.

But is the right thing to do simply ditch the microfiber items into the trash? I don't think so, I think I simply need to acknowledge my error and keep them for as long as I can. I still tend to use cotton rags more often, but if these get used it's not the worst thing that I could do for the environment.

Zikoris

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Re: Ways to engineer plastic out of your life
« Reply #31 on: April 24, 2023, 09:31:44 PM »
I think the easiest thing to do is to just eliminate spending categories altogether (and not replace them with other plasticky things). For example, you can spend a lot of time trying to find beauty products sold in non-plastic packaging, or you can say "You know what, the whole industry is a predatory scam and I'm not giving them another penny." Also, planning ahead to avoid whatever your own pitfalls are is always a good move, but of course the specifics depend exactly what plastic you're buying.

Josiecat22222

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Re: Ways to engineer plastic out of your life
« Reply #32 on: April 25, 2023, 04:52:06 AM »
@Zikoris, I agree with this sentiment wholeheartedly.  The oft stated Reduce Reuse Recycle, are in descending order of importance and neglect the first and most important "R" for Refuse.

Some plastic is inevitable in our lives.  However, the more products you refuse to buy (liquid detergent, a different cleaner for each surface in your home, packaging for EVERYTHING, body wash, makeup and on and on) the fewer things you have to decide how to reuse/recycle.

I think the point made by @sixwings and @hooplady is important.  Once you have identified that you have some things of plastic in your home, and that no longer fits with who you want to be, the worst thing to do is throw them out in the name of enviromentalism and replace them with new glass or stainless steel.  The next best thing to never having bought them is to acknowledge there may be better choices, then use them the best you can until you cannot use them anymore.

jfer_rose

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Re: Ways to engineer plastic out of your life
« Reply #33 on: April 29, 2023, 05:48:39 AM »
My general take is that when I have plastic stuff because of prior decisions I made not taking into account the plastic considerings (like a rug), the best case scenario is not to replace it because it's plastic, it's to use it until it's no longer functional and then replace it. Plastic isn't necessariyl the problem, plastics has purposes, it's the culture of disposable plastics and single use plastic items that are really a problem. A plastic thing that you use every day for 20 years, like a rug that has plastics in it, isn't the problem, it's like the bananas and oranges that come wrapped in plastic, fast fashion and the role plastics play, etc.
I tend to agree. I bought a bunch of microfiber cleaning cloths a few years ago as a replacement for my other cleaning cloths which were mostly leftover cotton washcloths; I thought this was the Holy Grail for effective cleaning. I now know I was wrong, since microfiber gives off tiny bits of plastic every time it's washed.

But is the right thing to do simply ditch the microfiber items into the trash? I don't think so, I think I simply need to acknowledge my error and keep them for as long as I can. I still tend to use cotton rags more often, but if these get used it's not the worst thing that I could do for the environment.

I bought a guppy bag. The idea is that you put any laundry with microfiber/plastics inside it before putting everything into the washing machine and it keeps the plastic inside the bag instead of releasing the plastic into the water waste. It seems to work because bits of plastic build up inside the bag.

I tried to only buy natural fiber clothing/home textiles for about a decade but I got really tired of how difficult that made thrifting. I had so many thrifting trips I’m which I left empty handed because the only items I liked had at least some synthetic fabric content. Over the past year I started to allow myself to buy synthetic fabrics if buying used. It feels like a weight off my shoulders in some ways.

eyesonthehorizon

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Re: Ways to engineer plastic out of your life
« Reply #34 on: April 30, 2023, 07:51:37 PM »
I don't know if you all are familiar, but I have just made an account with Terracycle, which is a large scale plastics recycler (among other things).  As you all know, less than 10% of plastic thrown in recycling bins is actually recycled, but some individual retailers will accept their products back to be recycled.  On Terracycle's page, I followed links to Rubbermaid (recycle food storage containers --even not theirs!!), Pantene, Colgate, etc. 

Just wanted to pass this on- they will email you a postage paid label and you can ship your plastic to them and they will recycle it.

Free and earth-friendly? That's my speed!
This is really cool. I've only seen their prepaid boxes for sale & didn't know they offered services to refer used goods back to producer-funded recycling. Apparently there was a lawsuit since there was a cap on how much waste they'd accept at a time, probably related to warehousing costs.

Notable that I learned it from someone obviously very passionate about waste re-routing, though, rather than the participating companies, or even Terracycle itself. It's mild greenwashing for the participating brands, but still better than if they didn't participate in such a program at all, so I'll call it a win anyway.

Getting perishable ingredients without plastic - tetrapaks, plastic jugs or tubs, etc - has been nearly impossible here. That's the only real stream of plastic still coming in but still irks me.

Josiecat22222

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Re: Ways to engineer plastic out of your life
« Reply #35 on: May 01, 2023, 01:16:04 PM »
@eyesonthehorizon - I agree that getting produce without plastic is a major source of frustration!  I've tried to use the reusable mesh bags, but for blueberries, salad greens etc it seems near impossible.  GRRR.


jeninco

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Re: Ways to engineer plastic out of your life
« Reply #36 on: May 01, 2023, 01:23:40 PM »
My general take is that when I have plastic stuff because of prior decisions I made not taking into account the plastic considerings (like a rug), the best case scenario is not to replace it because it's plastic, it's to use it until it's no longer functional and then replace it. Plastic isn't necessariyl the problem, plastics has purposes, it's the culture of disposable plastics and single use plastic items that are really a problem. A plastic thing that you use every day for 20 years, like a rug that has plastics in it, isn't the problem, it's like the bananas and oranges that come wrapped in plastic, fast fashion and the role plastics play, etc.
I tend to agree. I bought a bunch of microfiber cleaning cloths a few years ago as a replacement for my other cleaning cloths which were mostly leftover cotton washcloths; I thought this was the Holy Grail for effective cleaning. I now know I was wrong, since microfiber gives off tiny bits of plastic every time it's washed.

But is the right thing to do simply ditch the microfiber items into the trash? I don't think so, I think I simply need to acknowledge my error and keep them for as long as I can. I still tend to use cotton rags more often, but if these get used it's not the worst thing that I could do for the environment.

I bought a guppy bag. The idea is that you put any laundry with microfiber/plastics inside it before putting everything into the washing machine and it keeps the plastic inside the bag instead of releasing the plastic into the water waste. It seems to work because bits of plastic build up inside the bag.

I tried to only buy natural fiber clothing/home textiles for about a decade but I got really tired of how difficult that made thrifting. I had so many thrifting trips I’m which I left empty handed because the only items I liked had at least some synthetic fabric content. Over the past year I started to allow myself to buy synthetic fabrics if buying used. It feels like a weight off my shoulders in some ways.

I've found that it really limits my thrifting options too, but that (sometimes) that's OK. Do I really need another shirt? Especially if it's synthetic?

One compromise I've made with myself is that used rayon is OK. (It's wood fiber, right? And I think most of the pollution comes from production, so if I'm buying it used I view that as getting a pass on most of the pollution linked to generation). And, in a few cases, I've pulled things out of the $1 bin that I think I can re-style and use, just to keep them out of the landfill. Most recently (maybe last year?) I pulled a cheap, ugly synthetic sweater out of the bin, took in the sides, then sewed a new neckline on it. It turned out OK, and I figure I'm keeping it in use, at least. (Plus, if I'd failed, I'd be out $1, the world would be back where it was before, and I'd've learned something.)

Josiecat22222

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Re: Ways to engineer plastic out of your life
« Reply #37 on: May 31, 2023, 01:31:24 PM »
So--- I was at REI today and I saw over in the corner there is a drop box for plastic items to be recycled! I had no idea.

They apparently have partnered with Terracycle and are collecting "personal care items" such as used toothpaste tubes, shampoo, cleansers etc and they are then sent to Terracycle where they are melted down and made into park benches and other durable goods.

They also collect "goo" containers, but I don't use those, so it didn't really catch my eye.

Anyway, thought it was cool and wanted to pass on the info.

Hope everyone is doing well.

FrugalShrew

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Re: Ways to engineer plastic out of your life
« Reply #38 on: May 31, 2023, 01:54:33 PM »
Great thread. I would like to decrease my plastics usage further.

As much as possible, I do the following already: 
-bring reusable shopping bags,
-use glass food storage containers (although the lids are plastic),
-use reusable metal water bottle,
-wash and re-use ziploc bags,
-don't use make-up,
-switched recently to bar soap,
-shop at thrift stores, and
-buy natural fiber clothes.

I find that the bar soap is much more effective at cutting grease and getting my hands clean than liquid soap, while still being gentle on sensitive skin.

Like you, @cannotWAIT, switching to natural fibers for clothes has arisen more from realizing how much less pleasant it is to wear synthetics. It can be hard to find, though. And I still have a lot of synthetics in my closet from before I woke up to the fact of how much I preferred natural fibers.

ixtap

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Re: Ways to engineer plastic out of your life
« Reply #39 on: May 31, 2023, 02:30:30 PM »
We have a long way to go, but I do love my laundry detergent sheets. They are lighter to carry to the laundry mat and I can pack a couple when we are traveling.

We are working ever harder at it since moving to an agricultural center. They use so much plastic on the fields! Currently, the fields look like they are saran wrapped. Evidently, it helps trap the heat to extend the growing season, especially with the odd weather we have had this year. In the fall, it was a thicker black plastic to cut down on weeds. So we now see our local veggies as plastic wrapped, even when we buy them loose. It is sad, but it makes us push ourselves a bit more.

Trudie

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Re: Ways to engineer plastic out of your life
« Reply #40 on: July 07, 2023, 08:12:59 PM »
Our city is unique in that our waste is used to generate refuse derives fuel. Glass is the only thing that can't go into the waste stream. Ferrous and non-ferrous metal is sorted out with magnets. The remaining refuse (including plastic) is shredded and burned to generate fuel for the city electrical grid. The boilers run on natural gas.

This doesn't make me want to stop trying to eliminate plastic. It has a multitude of other issues. But I was somewhat encouraged to learn that it's being used for fuel.

Cassie

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Re: Ways to engineer plastic out of your life
« Reply #41 on: July 14, 2023, 12:27:53 PM »
I have been doing my part for decades but the one thing I can’t wrap my head around is when people say that they can clean their hair with water only. I have been reading about it on this forum for years but don’t know how you get your hair actually clean without some form of shampoo or soap.

jeninco

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Re: Ways to engineer plastic out of your life
« Reply #42 on: July 14, 2023, 01:28:14 PM »
I have been doing my part for decades but the one thing I can’t wrap my head around is when people say that they can clean their hair with water only. I have been reading about it on this forum for years but don’t know how you get your hair actually clean without some form of shampoo or soap.

I don't think you do and suspect that these people smell kinda funky.

I'm thinking of trying bar shampoo. 3/5 of the people in my household wash their hair with bar soap (only BB [12] and myself use shampoo and conditioner, and he also uses gel) but now that I type this LB's (age 11) hair is getting long and I probably need to talk to him about conditioner. He and his brother will definitely not want to share...

I've been using bar shampoo from Trader Joe's for over a year now, and it's ... I'd say "OK". Fortunately, I have rather short hair, so if I have to wash it a bit more frequently it's not a burden.

La Bibliotecaria Feroz

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Re: Ways to engineer plastic out of your life
« Reply #43 on: July 14, 2023, 01:36:02 PM »
I have been doing my part for decades but the one thing I can’t wrap my head around is when people say that they can clean their hair with water only. I have been reading about it on this forum for years but don’t know how you get your hair actually clean without some form of shampoo or soap.

I don't think you do and suspect that these people smell kinda funky.

I'm thinking of trying bar shampoo. 3/5 of the people in my household wash their hair with bar soap (only BB [12] and myself use shampoo and conditioner, and he also uses gel) but now that I type this LB's (age 11) hair is getting long and I probably need to talk to him about conditioner. He and his brother will definitely not want to share...

I've been using bar shampoo from Trader Joe's for over a year now, and it's ... I'd say "OK". Fortunately, I have rather short hair, so if I have to wash it a bit more frequently it's not a burden.

Do you ever use a baking soda wash/vinegar rinse? I do this once in a while to remove residue from my hair because it seems then like I don't have to wash it as much... wondering if that would be protective against the washing-more-often effect.

parkerk

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Re: Ways to engineer plastic out of your life
« Reply #44 on: July 14, 2023, 01:38:01 PM »
I have been doing my part for decades but the one thing I can’t wrap my head around is when people say that they can clean their hair with water only. I have been reading about it on this forum for years but don’t know how you get your hair actually clean without some form of shampoo or soap.

I don't think you do and suspect that these people smell kinda funky.

I'm thinking of trying bar shampoo. 3/5 of the people in my household wash their hair with bar soap (only BB [12] and myself use shampoo and conditioner, and he also uses gel) but now that I type this LB's (age 11) hair is getting long and I probably need to talk to him about conditioner. He and his brother will definitely not want to share...

I use bar shampoo, switched about two years ago now and really like it. It's definitely different from liquid shampoo though and your hair will go through an "adjustment period," and like with regular shampoo not every kind is right for every type of hair so it may take a little trial and error. 

My most useful discovery so far is that unless you're also planning on using bar conditioner you should bring a wide-tooth comb into the shower with you and comb out your hair while the shampoo is still in it. If it's anything like mine your hair will be more prone to tangles with just the bar shampoo. So lather, comb, rinse, then proceed as normal. I prefer that to using conditioner because my hair is super fine and limp and conditioner just weighs it down. I imagine if you have coarser or curly hair the conditioner would have way more benefits.

For a while I was doing the apple cider vinegar rinse after shampooing because it helps on some ph-balance level that I don't really understand, and while it worked ok it was a bit of a pain to bother with and my comb method seems to work just as well. Like I say, try it out and see how your hair reacts! The nice thing about bar shampoo is that if it doesn't work for you as shampoo you can just use it as soap, so it's not a huge waste.

Metalcat

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Re: Ways to engineer plastic out of your life
« Reply #45 on: July 14, 2023, 03:21:21 PM »
I have been doing my part for decades but the one thing I can’t wrap my head around is when people say that they can clean their hair with water only. I have been reading about it on this forum for years but don’t know how you get your hair actually clean without some form of shampoo or soap.

You mean me? I've been the main one mentioning it the most here for years. If so, just add it to the pile of things about me that you've already said you find weird or unrealistic or whatever.

For anyone else reading who is interested, yes, it's very easy to get hair clean with just water, but it does depend on what you consider "clean."

My hair is never stripped of oils, but that's the whole point. There's no reason to strip oil from your hair, and the less you do, the less oily your hair gets over time.

Washing your hair and scalp with detergents is very harsh, which is why most people need to add piles of moisturizers and silicones onto their hair to get it to be reasonably soft/manageable after washing, but those substances are very hard to wash out, which is why shampoos have such harsh detergents. It's not to get rid of the dirt in your hair, most of that is water soluble, it's to get rid of the deposits of silicone.

Even then, a lot of people need to use a "clarifying" shampoo when the buildup makes hair all ruddy and uncooperative because silicone and sebum don't play well together. Which means using an even harsher shampoo that itself doesn't contain any silicone.

With water-only, you do have to manually exfoliate your scalp, which I do with a scalp massager. Harsh detergents normally wash this away, so it has to be helped along mechanically. The no-poo community call this "scritching" and "cleaning," which always reminds me of rats. Which I'm cool with because rats are phenomenally clean animals who manage to smell nice despite not using shampoo.

This is a thing, there are a ton of Reddit threads asking why rats smell so nice, lol.
https://www.reddit.com/r/RATS/comments/qvmsk7/why_do_my_rats_smell_good/

Because, as I said, hair dirt is water soluble, it's very easy to have clean hair with just water. A thin coating of sebum oil stays on the hair shaft, but this oil doesn't need to be removed, the same way it doesn't need to be removed from your face, which is why the best face cleansers leave that layer intact.

If you don't use industrial chemicals on your face, you can also just wash your face with water, which is still a well known, old school beauty regimen.

It's important to note that when you stop aggressively stripping your scalp (or face) of sebum, it stops over producing it, and it totally stops being liquidy/greasy. So that wet, soggy, greasy hair phenomenon is more a product of shampoo than a reason to use it. That soggy, sticky oil traps dirt and crap much, much more. So washing your hair makes it much more gross.

Instead it has more of a wax-like texture that thoroughly coats the hair strand in a very thin layer, making hair thicker, less frizzy, and easier to manage.

For many people it also helps with the fungus/bacteria balance of the scalp because it's a much more stable microbiome not being blasted with detergents.

Many people who can't imagine it working are thinking about how their scalp behaves under conditions of constantly being stripped with harsh detergents and then smothered with thick emollients and silicones. And yes, it takes a good 6 weeks of gross, smelly, greasy, nasty-ass hair and scalp for the whole system to calm down and adjust. 

Also, people who don't know to clarify first end up with really, really gross hair because of the silicone deposits left in the hair and how they react with the increasingly waxy oil, which is disgusting and extremely sticky. Remember, silicone and sebum do NOT play well together.

So you get a lot of people experimenting with it for a week or two, getting overwhelmingly gross, sticky, filthy hair and giving up.

I learned this the hard way. I tried for 2 months and my hair just got worse and worse until my fiance at the time insisted I wash it. That's when I found out about the clarifying part. After that, I transitioned just fine, and I've been doing it one and off for over a decade with no spousal complaints. In fact, DH has recently switched over to only shampooing once a month, and only with silicone free shampoo, and only using jojoba oil as conditioner (closest oil to sebum). He has sensitive skin and was getting an itchy, dry scalp with most shampoos he tried, so he wanted to try it.

Funnily enough, I'm currently washing my hair with shampoo because my scalp seems to be doing something insane with the ultra high humidity in Newfoundland and I have sporadic psoriasis that has flared up, so I have to use tar shampoo. But I hate it because my hair gets so greasy and dirty in like a day now. It goes from being way too dry and frizzy the day I wash it to nice for about half a day, then to gross and greasy in the snap of a finger. I really hate it. I typically like to run my hands through my hair and now they come out greasy, it's so gross.

FTR, there are folks who don't even use water. They build up their soft, smooth waxy layer and then clean their hair daily by using a boar bristle brush.

This is where that old tradition of brushing your hair with 100 strokes every evening comes from, and is most commonly practiced in some of the traditional long hair communities. This is called sebum-only haircare. The boar bristles are so densely packed in the brush that they'll remove any excess sebum and dirt/skin cells from the hair, leaving just the thinnest sheen of sebum, and nice smooth hair.

For the ultra long hair folks of Nordic descent, even getting hair that long wet will lead to breakage from the weight alone and how fragile the strands are at the end after so many years.

When I started playing with water only, which I actually did in an effort to control my psoriasis, which it did really well until recently (thanks healthy microbiome!), I ended up chatting online with an American Amish girl. They're not allowed to cut their hair at all, ever. Because of their Nordic ancestry, their hair is super fine and fragile, so it gets very easily damaged, and preventing split ends is critical, otherwise they can end up with a giant, frizzy, knotted mess that they're not allowed to cut. So a lot of them never wet their hair because the risk of breakage and splits would be too high.

That's everyone's fun facts about hair for today.

draco44

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Re: Ways to engineer plastic out of your life
« Reply #46 on: July 24, 2023, 08:15:12 PM »
Love the haircare rundown, Metalcat. Yes there are some people out in the world who definitely need to step up their hygiene efforts, but different things work for different bodies and there is such a wide variety of cultural practices both today and throughout human history on this subject that I highly doubt there's one true path to staying clean and put together. And it does seem like some modern products have side effects that then cause you to need other products to correct them (e.g. overly stripping shampoo + goop to add moisture back in, like your post notes). If you've found a process that works for you and is eco-friendly as well, more power to you.

It's also incredible to me how different body chemistry can be between people. I had one ex who had no smell whatever, like an almost unnerving absence of body smell. They didn't even need to wear deodorant. However, it seemed like all the potential bad smell coding in their body had been redirected and concentrated into their mouth for horrible bad breath in the morning, so there was that...

I'm still looking to improve my haircare routine but try to keep things on the minimal side overall. Lately I've been experimenting with bar shampoo samples from the brand Ethique and am pretty impressed.

Josiecat22222

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Re: Ways to engineer plastic out of your life
« Reply #47 on: July 25, 2023, 06:06:23 AM »
I have been doing bar shampoo for years (Bravo Sierra brand if you are interested) and can second many of the findings above.  I wash twice a week and rinse with ACV and my hair has never been so healthy or strong.  For the ACV rinse, I dilute about 1 part ACV to 5 parts water, place it in a (repurposed) spray bottle and mist it all over my hair after shampooing and rinsing.  I then finish doing the rest of the shower routine and then rinse it again.  The spray bottle was a game changer for me because trying to pour ACV over my hair was a pain and I was using wayyyy more than needed. 

The bar shampoo is a game changer for those who wish to use less plastic because I use it as shampoo, soap, and to shave my legs eliminating at least three products from my routine.  DH and I both use it and LOVE it.   

There are still a couple of products in my shower, because, well, I'm a mustachian and I don't throw things away or waste....so I'm still working through a bunch of old soaps and shaving creams etc.  But all bottle shampoo has been put in DS's bathroom!

Metalcat

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Re: Ways to engineer plastic out of your life
« Reply #48 on: July 25, 2023, 06:08:49 AM »
Love the haircare rundown, Metalcat. Yes there are some people out in the world who definitely need to step up their hygiene efforts, but different things work for different bodies and there is such a wide variety of cultural practices both today and throughout human history on this subject that I highly doubt there's one true path to staying clean and put together. And it does seem like some modern products have side effects that then cause you to need other products to correct them (e.g. overly stripping shampoo + goop to add moisture back in, like your post notes). If you've found a process that works for you and is eco-friendly as well, more power to you.

It's also incredible to me how different body chemistry can be between people. I had one ex who had no smell whatever, like an almost unnerving absence of body smell. They didn't even need to wear deodorant. However, it seemed like all the potential bad smell coding in their body had been redirected and concentrated into their mouth for horrible bad breath in the morning, so there was that...

I'm still looking to improve my haircare routine but try to keep things on the minimal side overall. Lately I've been experimenting with bar shampoo samples from the brand Ethique and am pretty impressed.

Diet also plays an enormous role. Just like diet impacts your gut microbiome, it also affects your surface microbiome and the smells they produce. Genetics interacts with this of course.

Also, certain foods will directly make you smell differently. If people take fenugreek as a supplement and it makes their sweat smell sweet, like honey or maple syrup. Obviously alcohol will make someone's sweat smell as well. When I started intermittent fasting, I was oozing ketones out of my pores, and I smelled distinctly like burnt popcorn and acetone. For 6 months I couldn't stand the smell of myself and had to shower twice a day.

So a lot of things will impact how someone smells, but it's mostly the microbiome that set the tone of the smell. For me, I find that I smell stronger like typical BO if I eat meat, I smell more sour if I eat a lot of ultra processed food and sugar. I typically eat minimally processed vegetarian, so these changes are stark.

This is why a scalp that isn't stripped will often smell so much better because the microbiome isn't being upset by aggressive stripping of the protective sebum layer. Remember, the main purpose of harsh detergents in shampoo isn't to clean the hair and scalp, it's to remove commercial hair chemicals. So if you don't apply commercial hair chemicals like silicone in the first place, you don't need harsh detergents.

SLS fucks with skin bacteria:
https://www.mdpi.com/2079-9284/8/1/6

That said, a scalp whose microbiome is already fucked up might need to be washed more frequently with medicated shampoos to get the bacteria and fungi under control.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6180232/

If you've switched to a shampoo bar, I strongly recommend clarifying your hair first to get whatever silicones were in it before from regular shampoo and conditioner. Start from actually clean hair any time you try a new routine. You don't want old, crusty, dirty silicone buildup on your hair when you are trying to see how a new regimen works.

As for morning breath, that's also generally caused by microbiome. If people are walking around with gum disease, which stinks constantly, those are gram negative bacteria and have that rotting smell. There can be a lot of stinky gram negative bacteria on the tongue as well.

If they eat a lot of sugar, or tend to eat late at night, they might be cultivating S. Mutans, the cavity bacteria, which are aerobic, gram positive and don't tend to produce too severe a smell.

Overall, if someone's diet and oral hygiene are cultivating an unhealthy oral microbiome, then yeah, their mouth is going to stink, especially in the morning after all of the bacteria have been left undisturbed for hours.

The other morning breath culprit is acid reflux, which has a bunch of causes, but is also influenced by microbiome.

At the end of the day, smell will always come back to the microbiome in question, because it's primarily the byproducts of body bugs that produce human smells.

As the scalp study I posted shows though, this hasn't really been studied much, so time will tell what interventions are actually optimal for managing surface microbiome. We have solid research from cosmetic companies not to fuck with the oils on our faces if we don't want to piss off face bugs, but over time we'll get more research on how to care effectively for the rest of the largest organ we have.

For me, my n=1 experiment, I know that for my body smells there's a complex interplay of my genetics, diet, stress, hormones, and the ambient humidity. I personally find I have an enormous amount of influence over how I smell.

Metalcat

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Re: Ways to engineer plastic out of your life
« Reply #49 on: July 25, 2023, 06:17:41 AM »
I have been doing bar shampoo for years (Bravo Sierra brand if you are interested) and can second many of the findings above.  I wash twice a week and rinse with ACV and my hair has never been so healthy or strong.  For the ACV rinse, I dilute about 1 part ACV to 5 parts water, place it in a (repurposed) spray bottle and mist it all over my hair after shampooing and rinsing.  I then finish doing the rest of the shower routine and then rinse it again.  The spray bottle was a game changer for me because trying to pour ACV over my hair was a pain and I was using wayyyy more than needed. 

The bar shampoo is a game changer for those who wish to use less plastic because I use it as shampoo, soap, and to shave my legs eliminating at least three products from my routine.  DH and I both use it and LOVE it.   

There are still a couple of products in my shower, because, well, I'm a mustachian and I don't throw things away or waste....so I'm still working through a bunch of old soaps and shaving creams etc.  But all bottle shampoo has been put in DS's bathroom!

Lol, let's also note that both Josie and I are medical professionals who absolutely could not get away with having stinky hair while working in very close proximity with patients.

It's not like we're dreadlocked hippy artists living in a tent village by the river claiming our filthy hair doesn't stink ;P I grew up around those folks, their dreads absolutely stank, they did not have the cultural knowledge of how to care for them properly.