Author Topic: Selling Tradelines / Piggybacking Part II: $1000+/hr, 20-40k/yr. Side Gig  (Read 446683 times)

Orin!

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 52
I just wanted to say that it's taken me several days but I've finally read through this ENTIRE thread. :) Fascinating stuff. I'm usually more of a lurker than a poster but I want to thank you all the info you provide. I'll have to season some cards but I may have a few to throw into the system...

Just interested - for someone like you new to Tradelines and reading about all the cards shut down and possibly increasing risk, how do you come to the conclusion that it is worth the (steadily declining) income?  Also, as a disclaimer, I don't see this living up to the headline '20 - 40k/yr side gig', even in its heyday.  Maybe a 2 - 4k side hustle or a 40 - 200k full on business opportunity, from what I have been reading, personally.  But owning a Tradeline business might eventually expose you to fraudulent activity against the interest of some very deep pockets, not to mention that you could be facilitating some criminal activity you would probably not want to be associated with...

I dunno, my personal jury is still out on this, otherwise I would have recommended it to folks that I know need the extra money and have the credit history to offer.

I had this same concern and that is why I did my homework as to how these identities are verified. You do not want to add your tradelines to synthetic identities or cpns. Do your homework on how your company is verifying this.

I also found after digging into my motherís finances she has been being robbed by banks for centuries with ridiculous interest rates. So first I fixed her finances up. But the amount of people out there needing help with their finances in this is sky high - and most donít even know it. It funnels enormous amounts to some big wig banker which I donít care to support. So if I can help someone get their feet back up in the credit world I am ok with that. As long as my credit tradeline vendor is doing their process to verify these are real people then I am all good. I will not stand to be added to fraudulent identities to Eli reinforce a synthetic identity which also leads to more shit downs. This area is where I did my own homework the most.

EscapeVelocity2020

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1740
  • Age: 44
  • Location: Houston
    • EscapeVelocity2020
I had this same concern and that is why I did my homework as to how these identities are verified. You do not want to add your tradelines to synthetic identities or cpns. Do your homework on how your company is verifying this.

I also found after digging into my motherís finances she has been being robbed by banks for centuries with ridiculous interest rates. So first I fixed her finances up. But the amount of people out there needing help with their finances in this is sky high - and most donít even know it. It funnels enormous amounts to some big wig banker which I donít care to support. So if I can help someone get their feet back up in the credit world I am ok with that. As long as my credit tradeline vendor is doing their process to verify these are real people then I am all good. I will not stand to be added to fraudulent identities to Eli reinforce a synthetic identity which also leads to more shit downs. This area is where I did my own homework the most.

Wow Orin, that was a quick response!  Glad to hear of your (low posting) success in the past that you just now want to share.  I'm keeping an open mind, but that certainly didn't win me over without reservation.

BritannicaMM

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 2
  • Location: Kansas City
Oh, I have concerns of course. Mostly I just wanted to say that I appreciate everyone's knowledge. I'm not even sure it'll be worth the risk after I do my own research. I guess my prevailing thought is, while the heyday of this activity is probably over, my credit cards are just sitting there. I mostly use one card to pay all my bills (within my means) and then pay it off every month in full. It earns some cashback and keeps me from using my bank account directly. I've thought about canceling them all since I have no desire to live off of credit but that seemed short-sighted and it's ingrained in me to keep a good credit score as well as worry about the "just in case." I won't die if they close and I'm not expecting to farm them all out and make 20K. Just another small sideline is just that.

arebelspy

  • Administrator
  • Senior Mustachian
  • *****
  • Posts: 27106
  • Age: -999
  • Location: Traveling the World
I just wanted to say that it's taken me several days but I've finally read through this ENTIRE thread. :) Fascinating stuff. I'm usually more of a lurker than a poster but I want to thank you all the info you provide. I'll have to season some cards but I may have a few to throw into the system...

Just interested - for someone like you new to Tradelines and reading about all the cards shut down and possibly increasing risk, how do you come to the conclusion that it is worth the (steadily declining) income?  Also, as a disclaimer, I don't see this living up to the headline '20 - 40k/yr side gig', even in its heyday.  Maybe a 2 - 4k side hustle or a 40 - 200k full on business opportunity, from what I have been reading, personally.  But owning a Tradeline business might eventually expose you to fraudulent activity against the interest of some very deep pockets, not to mention that you could be facilitating some criminal activity you would probably not want to be associated with...

I dunno, my personal jury is still out on this, otherwise I would have recommended it to folks that I know need the extra money and have the credit history to offer.

Yeah, I'd say most people are making in that 2-4k range now that the card companies are pretty saturated with cards so you may not max out all your spots every month.  There are at least a few people who are making in the low 5 figures though, people with a bunch of cards and

I wrote a post a few weeks ago (probably a few pages back?) about realistic expectations on income currently.

The $/hour remains the same as in the post title, because no extra effort is needed. So a few thousand dollar side gig for very little effort isn't bad.

Also, if you're seeing less sales, so you're only making a few hundred, that likely proportionally reduces your risk of card shut down. Not totally, as there are definite sweeps and someone with a small number of sales can still get shut down, but someone with a ton of sales is more likely to get shut down. So yes, less money than when it was unknown, but less risk of shutdown as well.

Everyone will make their own decisions. I respect those that don't want to sell tradelines for whatever reason (risk/reward, ethics, whatever). I think it's still worth it, personally, as the easiest side-gig I've ever heard of. :)
We are two former teachers who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, and now travel the world full time with two kids.
If you want to know more about me, or how we did that, or see lots of pictures, this Business Insider profile tells our story pretty well.
We (occasionally) blog at AdventuringAlong.com.
You can also read my forum "Journal."

Orin!

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 52
I personally say 2-4K is low if you donít mind a more aggressive view toward all of this.

The most aggressive view is selling your own tradelines directly to people. Drawback is more risk and ultimately if you want to effectively counter that you need to fully incorporate and invest in proper data safety and identity verification protocols. I personally started selling directly and sold 16 lines in the last thirty days. Most of these were people just trying to buy one line and after it worked they were thrilled and resigned for an additional line. In doing this I did detect at least one person I suspected to be giving me a synthetic identity and I refunded him. Another person was openly trying to get me to add a cpn and I kept saying no.

Personally with this avenue - self selling lines - I cut off promoting this way as I do not want to go through all the necessary steps of incorporating and data safety and signing up to fill identity verification portals. But I now have more requests than I can fill from people who bought one line and it worked and now want more, and also these people who told their friends about me. I also treat each one very well, giving them basic advice most of us know about in regards to credit cards, how to build credit, and how to remove negative marks on credit.

I also signed my cards up with two vendors. One vendor would not take a certain brand of card but a different vendor would take another one as they figured out how to make it post.

With these two vendors, in the last thirty days one of them gave me four sales and another gave me seven sales. The one that gave me seven sales I actually had to refuse the last offer as it was pushing one of my cards past what I considered a comfortable line of AU lines. Iíll also be honest that I did double list one brand of card with both vendors but did it to the limit I considered acceptable - offered one AU slot with one vendor and two AU slots with the other.

Anyways I believe this area of the world - credit repair and tradelines - is saturated in potential. There are so many people that pay hundreds of thousands of dollars of extra interest over their life time due to poor credit.

erutio

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 178
I personally say 2-4K is low if you donít mind a more aggressive view toward all of this.

The most aggressive view is selling your own tradelines directly to people. Drawback is more risk and ultimately if you want to effectively counter that you need to fully incorporate and invest in proper data safety and identity verification protocols. I personally started selling directly and sold 16 lines in the last thirty days. Most of these were people just trying to buy one line and after it worked they were thrilled and resigned for an additional line. In doing this I did detect at least one person I suspected to be giving me a synthetic identity and I refunded him. Another person was openly trying to get me to add a cpn and I kept saying no.

Personally with this avenue - self selling lines - I cut off promoting this way as I do not want to go through all the necessary steps of incorporating and data safety and signing up to fill identity verification portals. But I now have more requests than I can fill from people who bought one line and it worked and now want more, and also these people who told their friends about me. I also treat each one very well, giving them basic advice most of us know about in regards to credit cards, how to build credit, and how to remove negative marks on credit.

I also signed my cards up with two vendors. One vendor would not take a certain brand of card but a different vendor would take another one as they figured out how to make it post.

With these two vendors, in the last thirty days one of them gave me four sales and another gave me seven sales. The one that gave me seven sales I actually had to refuse the last offer as it was pushing one of my cards past what I considered a comfortable line of AU lines. Iíll also be honest that I did double list one brand of card with both vendors but did it to the limit I considered acceptable - offered one AU slot with one vendor and two AU slots with the other.

Anyways I believe this area of the world - credit repair and tradelines - is saturated in potential. There are so many people that pay hundreds of thousands of dollars of extra interest over their life time due to poor credit.

Geez, how many open credit card lines did you just have laying around when you started this just 30 days ago?

Orin!

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 52
I personally say 2-4K is low if you donít mind a more aggressive view toward all of this.

The most aggressive view is selling your own tradelines directly to people. Drawback is more risk and ultimately if you want to effectively counter that you need to fully incorporate and invest in proper data safety and identity verification protocols. I personally started selling directly and sold 16 lines in the last thirty days. Most of these were people just trying to buy one line and after it worked they were thrilled and resigned for an additional line. In doing this I did detect at least one person I suspected to be giving me a synthetic identity and I refunded him. Another person was openly trying to get me to add a cpn and I kept saying no.

Personally with this avenue - self selling lines - I cut off promoting this way as I do not want to go through all the necessary steps of incorporating and data safety and signing up to fill identity verification portals. But I now have more requests than I can fill from people who bought one line and it worked and now want more, and also these people who told their friends about me. I also treat each one very well, giving them basic advice most of us know about in regards to credit cards, how to build credit, and how to remove negative marks on credit.

I also signed my cards up with two vendors. One vendor would not take a certain brand of card but a different vendor would take another one as they figured out how to make it post.

With these two vendors, in the last thirty days one of them gave me four sales and another gave me seven sales. The one that gave me seven sales I actually had to refuse the last offer as it was pushing one of my cards past what I considered a comfortable line of AU lines. Iíll also be honest that I did double list one brand of card with both vendors but did it to the limit I considered acceptable - offered one AU slot with one vendor and two AU slots with the other.

Anyways I believe this area of the world - credit repair and tradelines - is saturated in potential. There are so many people that pay hundreds of thousands of dollars of extra interest over their life time due to poor credit.

Geez, how many open credit card lines did you just have laying around when you started this just 30 days ago?

Nine cards that had no balances. Eight of those were over two years old.

I have three cards on top of those nine, but they are maxed out with 12-15 month 0% interest balance transfers that had a 0% balance transfer fee.

Roots&Wings

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 949
I personally say 2-4K is low if you donít mind a more aggressive view toward all of this.

The most aggressive view is selling your own tradelines directly to people. Drawback is more risk and ultimately if you want to effectively counter that you need to fully incorporate and invest in proper data safety and identity verification protocols. I personally started selling directly and sold 16 lines in the last thirty days. Most of these were people just trying to buy one line and after it worked they were thrilled and resigned for an additional line. In doing this I did detect at least one person I suspected to be giving me a synthetic identity and I refunded him. Another person was openly trying to get me to add a cpn and I kept saying no.

Personally with this avenue - self selling lines - I cut off promoting this way as I do not want to go through all the necessary steps of incorporating and data safety and signing up to fill identity verification portals. But I now have more requests than I can fill from people who bought one line and it worked and now want more, and also these people who told their friends about me. I also treat each one very well, giving them basic advice most of us know about in regards to credit cards, how to build credit, and how to remove negative marks on credit.

I also signed my cards up with two vendors. One vendor would not take a certain brand of card but a different vendor would take another one as they figured out how to make it post.

With these two vendors, in the last thirty days one of them gave me four sales and another gave me seven sales. The one that gave me seven sales I actually had to refuse the last offer as it was pushing one of my cards past what I considered a comfortable line of AU lines. Iíll also be honest that I did double list one brand of card with both vendors but did it to the limit I considered acceptable - offered one AU slot with one vendor and two AU slots with the other.

Anyways I believe this area of the world - credit repair and tradelines - is saturated in potential. There are so many people that pay hundreds of thousands of dollars of extra interest over their life time due to poor credit.

How are you self selling and verifying data?

I declined my 1 sale in the past 1.5 months (5 cards listed all over 2 years) because when I googled the guy, there was criminal record, active lawsuits, liens, etc.

Orin!

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 52
I personally say 2-4K is low if you donít mind a more aggressive view toward all of this.

The most aggressive view is selling your own tradelines directly to people. Drawback is more risk and ultimately if you want to effectively counter that you need to fully incorporate and invest in proper data safety and identity verification protocols. I personally started selling directly and sold 16 lines in the last thirty days. Most of these were people just trying to buy one line and after it worked they were thrilled and resigned for an additional line. In doing this I did detect at least one person I suspected to be giving me a synthetic identity and I refunded him. Another person was openly trying to get me to add a cpn and I kept saying no.

Personally with this avenue - self selling lines - I cut off promoting this way as I do not want to go through all the necessary steps of incorporating and data safety and signing up to fill identity verification portals. But I now have more requests than I can fill from people who bought one line and it worked and now want more, and also these people who told their friends about me. I also treat each one very well, giving them basic advice most of us know about in regards to credit cards, how to build credit, and how to remove negative marks on credit.

I also signed my cards up with two vendors. One vendor would not take a certain brand of card but a different vendor would take another one as they figured out how to make it post.

With these two vendors, in the last thirty days one of them gave me four sales and another gave me seven sales. The one that gave me seven sales I actually had to refuse the last offer as it was pushing one of my cards past what I considered a comfortable line of AU lines. Iíll also be honest that I did double list one brand of card with both vendors but did it to the limit I considered acceptable - offered one AU slot with one vendor and two AU slots with the other.

Anyways I believe this area of the world - credit repair and tradelines - is saturated in potential. There are so many people that pay hundreds of thousands of dollars of extra interest over their life time due to poor credit.

How are you self selling and verifying data?

I declined my 1 sale in the past 1.5 months (5 cards listed all over 2 years) because when I googled the guy, there was criminal record, active lawsuits, liens, etc.

I stopped self selling because I did not feel comfortable with it as in order to do full identity checks you have to be incorporated to sign up for the companies that do ID verify for you. They will not deal with you just as a regular person. An alternative would be to get a line into a PI who does it for you.

But what I did to at least calm my nerves when I was self selling is I openly stated I would not take cpns. And if someone tried they would not be refunded. Of course I still did refund the one person who I suspected was trying to palm one off on me. But just saying there would be no refund probably deterred people. I also said I wanted their credit karma login data. I would look around on that to see indicators of it being a synthetic person. Also credit karma to some degree does ID checks or questions before you can register with them. It is not as tight as I like it though so I am not happy with just that.

I would also ďstart the AU add processĒ but not really and say the bank was asking for a copy of Drivers lisence. I might also ask for copy of social security card and proof of address like a bank statement or utility bill. I would basically ask for the same things a bank would ask for. Like I said the one person I suspected of being a fake said ďoh you are asking for too much give me a refundĒ which I was happy to do.

And one bank actually did ask for the ID documents and I had them and they were happy with them.

There was actually much more homework I did on this subject then the above. You can also find out for free if a social security number was actually issued by social security department and f the social security department has records (up to 2014) of that person being dead or not. That is a free search anyone can do.

In the end I checked out of self selling as I cannot do full ID verif without being a full incorporated business with places like Lexis Nexis or Equifax identity verifications. Or working hand in hand with a lisenced PI. I could have gone full corporate and cashed in but for personal reasons I left it alone and am working with two vendors. Maybe later I will go back to self selling but not for now.

MasterStache

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1562
I just wanted to say that it's taken me several days but I've finally read through this ENTIRE thread. :) Fascinating stuff. I'm usually more of a lurker than a poster but I want to thank you all the info you provide. I'll have to season some cards but I may have a few to throw into the system...

Just interested - for someone like you new to Tradelines and reading about all the cards shut down and possibly increasing risk, how do you come to the conclusion that it is worth the (steadily declining) income?  Also, as a disclaimer, I don't see this living up to the headline '20 - 40k/yr side gig', even in its heyday.  Maybe a 2 - 4k side hustle or a 40 - 200k full on business opportunity, from what I have been reading, personally.  But owning a Tradeline business might eventually expose you to fraudulent activity against the interest of some very deep pockets, not to mention that you could be facilitating some criminal activity you would probably not want to be associated with...

I dunno, my personal jury is still out on this, otherwise I would have recommended it to folks that I know need the extra money and have the credit history to offer.

Yeah, I'd say most people are making in that 2-4k range now that the card companies are pretty saturated with cards so you may not max out all your spots every month.  There are at least a few people who are making in the low 5 figures though, people with a bunch of cards and

I wrote a post a few weeks ago (probably a few pages back?) about realistic expectations on income currently.

The $/hour remains the same as in the post title, because no extra effort is needed. So a few thousand dollar side gig for very little effort isn't bad.

Also, if you're seeing less sales, so you're only making a few hundred, that likely proportionally reduces your risk of card shut down. Not totally, as there are definite sweeps and someone with a small number of sales can still get shut down, but someone with a ton of sales is more likely to get shut down. So yes, less money than when it was unknown, but less risk of shutdown as well.

Everyone will make their own decisions. I respect those that don't want to sell tradelines for whatever reason (risk/reward, ethics, whatever). I think it's still worth it, personally, as the easiest side-gig I've ever heard of. :)

I'll second this. We have 3 cards (2 are really old) and are making between 1-2K per year. Not near what others with many more cards are making but we are perfectly fine and happy with this. The alternative is nothing. Just one of my many side gigs.

Orin!

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 52
I donít know if anyone else has encountered this problem, but Citi specifically sends AU cards to your address but the envelope has their name on it.

I filed a complaint with citi on this so we will see if that changes. It confuses the person handling my mail and I have also noticed people with traveling virtual mail boxes get issues with this being rejected.

ducky19

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 452
My mail carrier has stopped caring - as long as the address is right, he'll deliver it. I still get the occasional of junk mail for someone that lived here 5-10 years ago!

I made $2525 last year with the "new" company, but largely due to one card ($1800). That card was transitioned from a Citi card to an AmEx, rendering it useless for tradelines, however I have several other cards that were seasoned since then to help make up the difference. This year to date I'm at $1950 with a total of 5 cards - 3 with the "old" company, 2 with the "new" company - so definitely seeing an uptick in activity this year. Still, will likely be in the $2k-$4k range for the foreseeable future - which I'm totally fine with!

dragoncar

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 7966
  • Registered member
I really donít think most carriers care about the names in mail, unless itís clearly for your neighbor.  How nosy is it to monitor who lives at a house?  There are no regulations or laws limiting who can receive mail at your address

I consider this a USPS issue, not Citibank.  Itís both common and reasonable for banks to put the name of the AU on the envelope

FrontRanger

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 42
Is it just me, or is Barclays getting more stringent. Was told you have to fax or mail in a valid driver's license, ID, SSN card etc for them to add a SSN to an AU. You can't do it just by calling alone. Is this new? I thought they asked for SSN when you added an AU online and didn't have to call or send anything in.

Car Jack

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 719
Is it just me, or is Barclays getting more stringent. Was told you have to fax or mail in a valid driver's license, ID, SSN card etc for them to add a SSN to an AU. You can't do it just by calling alone. Is this new? I thought they asked for SSN when you added an AU online and didn't have to call or send anything in.

I had a Barclay ad last week and only had to call to attach the SS#.  I think this was my first AU with them, though.

FrontRanger

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 42
Is it just me, or is Barclays getting more stringent. Was told you have to fax or mail in a valid driver's license, ID, SSN card etc for them to add a SSN to an AU. You can't do it just by calling alone. Is this new? I thought they asked for SSN when you added an AU online and didn't have to call or send anything in.

I had a Barclay ad last week and only had to call to attach the SS#.  I think this was my first AU with them, though.

I just called again and another CSR said it is a new process. Must send in a copy of the SS card and a valid form of ID (e.g. driver's license). They seem to be way more strict now.

katsiki

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1031
  • Age: 38
  • Location: La.
YMMV but I don't add SSN for barclays.  No issues with many adds.

powskier

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 312
YMMV but I don't add SSN for barclays.  No issues with many adds.

uuuummmm, pretty sure both tradeline companies demand that you add SSN, sounds like breach of contract to me.

MasterStache

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1562
YMMV but I don't add SSN for barclays.  No issues with many adds.

Hmmm, how would it post on said AU's credit report without a valid SS?

arebelspy

  • Administrator
  • Senior Mustachian
  • *****
  • Posts: 27106
  • Age: -999
  • Location: Traveling the World
The Barclay's online form doesn't let you put in a SSN. They recommend you call and add it, but I've never had an issue with one posting without.

It uses the other info: The person's name, DOB, and address. (Other cc companies won't let you put an address, but do allow a SSN.) Given enough data, they match it to the right person.
We are two former teachers who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, and now travel the world full time with two kids.
If you want to know more about me, or how we did that, or see lots of pictures, this Business Insider profile tells our story pretty well.
We (occasionally) blog at AdventuringAlong.com.
You can also read my forum "Journal."

secondcor521

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1586
  • Age: 49
  • Location: Boise, Idaho
  • Big cattle, no hat.
    • Age of Eon - Overwatch player videos
In general I've been doing this for about a year and a half, with a number of cards and quite a number of AU's.

My data points suggest it's drying up for me:

1.  Barclays put a security fraud alert and locked me out of my accounts.  New Company thinks that Barclay's is concerned about the most recent AU I added - like the person has shown up on a "bad list" of some kind.  At this point based on recommendation of New Company, I am not adding any more AU's (I can't anyway, Barclays won't let me), and just waiting until the two AU's I have with that card age off.  Then I can probably call and get the security fraud alert removed.

2.  USBank has sent me two "knock it off or we'll close your accounts" letters on two different cards I have with them that I've added AU's on in the past.  At this point my plan is to add one more AU each and then permanently rest these cards with New Company.

3.  USAA just put a security lock on my account and called me this morning.  They said "knock it off and don't do it again or we'll close our business with you."  Since I have my auto insurance, homeowner's insurance, main checking account, and a credit card with them, it's not worth the continued risk.  So I promised them I'd stop, and just sent Old Company a "please rest my card permanently".

I'm all for going after loopholes and things like this, and I don't have an issue with any of them.  I will also compliment @arebelspy for being up front about these possibilities and always saying that it is up to each person's comfort level.  But dealing with these security holes is extra time and effort, and for some reason I don't have the oomph to try to dance my way around them.  I'll probably continue with the other cards and companies until they also tell me to stop, and I may add fresh cards that aren't with USAA, but I guess a security hold and dealing with it are where my personal limit is.

Because I think it's worthwhile, if anyone wants any data points on any of the above, I'll be happy to answer questions.

Orin!

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 52
In general I've been doing this for about a year and a half, with a number of cards and quite a number of AU's.

My data points suggest it's drying up for me:

1.  Barclays put a security fraud alert and locked me out of my accounts.  New Company thinks that Barclay's is concerned about the most recent AU I added - like the person has shown up on a "bad list" of some kind.  At this point based on recommendation of New Company, I am not adding any more AU's (I can't anyway, Barclays won't let me), and just waiting until the two AU's I have with that card age off.  Then I can probably call and get the security fraud alert removed.

2.  USBank has sent me two "knock it off or we'll close your accounts" letters on two different cards I have with them that I've added AU's on in the past.  At this point my plan is to add one more AU each and then permanently rest these cards with New Company.

3.  USAA just put a security lock on my account and called me this morning.  They said "knock it off and don't do it again or we'll close our business with you."  Since I have my auto insurance, homeowner's insurance, main checking account, and a credit card with them, it's not worth the continued risk.  So I promised them I'd stop, and just sent Old Company a "please rest my card permanently".

I'm all for going after loopholes and things like this, and I don't have an issue with any of them.  I will also compliment @arebelspy for being up front about these possibilities and always saying that it is up to each person's comfort level.  But dealing with these security holes is extra time and effort, and for some reason I don't have the oomph to try to dance my way around them.  I'll probably continue with the other cards and companies until they also tell me to stop, and I may add fresh cards that aren't with USAA, but I guess a security hold and dealing with it are where my personal limit is.

Because I think it's worthwhile, if anyone wants any data points on any of the above, I'll be happy to answer questions.

How much have you made in the last yr and a half on all tradelines?

How many lines were you recently adding/removing per what time frame on the cards with recent security locks?

What other cards are you adding AU lines to with no complaints from bank? And how many lines per unit of time are you doing with them?

What explanation does new card company have for not vetting the ďbad nameĒ before giving it to you considering that is why we go through the middle man?

secondcor521

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1586
  • Age: 49
  • Location: Boise, Idaho
  • Big cattle, no hat.
    • Age of Eon - Overwatch player videos
<snip>

How much have you made in the last yr and a half on all tradelines?

How many lines were you recently adding/removing per what time frame on the cards with recent security locks?

What other cards are you adding AU lines to with no complaints from bank? And how many lines per unit of time are you doing with them?

What explanation does new card company have for not vetting the ďbad nameĒ before giving it to you considering that is why we go through the middle man?

I'd rather not answer the first question, as I don't see it's relevancy and it is my policy to not discuss income or assets.

For the second question, you'd need to define recently.  I'll use the last six months as an arbitrary measure.  On Barclays, I had two AU's.  On USBank, I had two adds on one of the cards and zero adds on the other.  On USAA, I had two AU's; one successful and one not.

For the third question, I have a Chase card and a BofA card that have had a few adds each with no issues.

For the fourth question, the New Company did not provide an explanation and I did not ask for one.  I assume that the credit card companies have more thorough fraud protection than New Company due to the relative sizes of the two businesses.  I expect the company to do good but not necessarily perfect vetting.

Orin!

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 52
<snip>

How much have you made in the last yr and a half on all tradelines?

How many lines were you recently adding/removing per what time frame on the cards with recent security locks?

What other cards are you adding AU lines to with no complaints from bank? And how many lines per unit of time are you doing with them?

What explanation does new card company have for not vetting the ďbad nameĒ before giving it to you considering that is why we go through the middle man?

I'd rather not answer the first question, as I don't see it's relevancy and it is my policy to not discuss income or assets.

For the second question, you'd need to define recently.  I'll use the last six months as an arbitrary measure.  On Barclays, I had two AU's.  On USBank, I had two adds on one of the cards and zero adds on the other.  On USAA, I had two AU's; one successful and one not.

For the third question, I have a Chase card and a BofA card that have had a few adds each with no issues.

For the fourth question, the New Company did not provide an explanation and I did not ask for one.  I assume that the credit card companies have more thorough fraud protection than New Company due to the relative sizes of the two businesses.  I expect the company to do good but not necessarily perfect vetting.

I guess I have a hard time understanding why two AU lines on a card in six months time would cause them to say that. Nothing out of the ordinary for anyone to do that.

The only reason I asked about sum made is it would be comparative to the risk and hassle of dealing with a temporary lock on the account and a couple phone calls to handle that.

At the same time I understand what you are saying about your main bank. I would back off if my main bank started barking, as due to the long history with them they are very easy to work with.

MasterStache

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1562
In general I've been doing this for about a year and a half, with a number of cards and quite a number of AU's.

My data points suggest it's drying up for me:

1.  Barclays put a security fraud alert and locked me out of my accounts.  New Company thinks that Barclay's is concerned about the most recent AU I added - like the person has shown up on a "bad list" of some kind.  At this point based on recommendation of New Company, I am not adding any more AU's (I can't anyway, Barclays won't let me), and just waiting until the two AU's I have with that card age off.  Then I can probably call and get the security fraud alert removed.

2.  USBank has sent me two "knock it off or we'll close your accounts" letters on two different cards I have with them that I've added AU's on in the past.  At this point my plan is to add one more AU each and then permanently rest these cards with New Company.

3.  USAA just put a security lock on my account and called me this morning.  They said "knock it off and don't do it again or we'll close our business with you."  Since I have my auto insurance, homeowner's insurance, main checking account, and a credit card with them, it's not worth the continued risk.  So I promised them I'd stop, and just sent Old Company a "please rest my card permanently".

I'm all for going after loopholes and things like this, and I don't have an issue with any of them.  I will also compliment @arebelspy for being up front about these possibilities and always saying that it is up to each person's comfort level.  But dealing with these security holes is extra time and effort, and for some reason I don't have the oomph to try to dance my way around them.  I'll probably continue with the other cards and companies until they also tell me to stop, and I may add fresh cards that aren't with USAA, but I guess a security hold and dealing with it are where my personal limit is.

Because I think it's worthwhile, if anyone wants any data points on any of the above, I'll be happy to answer questions.

That sucks! Sorry to hear. I got so few adds with the new company on my USAA card that I don't think it ever registered. I switched my card over to old company and have had no issues. I think between their vetting process and their fairly strict rules about how many adds over a certain period of time have reduced my worries of getting shut down.

I do agree though, I think it's drying up a bit. Probably only a matter of time before this ends up not netting much money for all.

arebelspy

  • Administrator
  • Senior Mustachian
  • *****
  • Posts: 27106
  • Age: -999
  • Location: Traveling the World
Thanks for the data/report, 2ndCor!

Seems like there's two ways to go:
1) Run cards until the issuers get mad, then stop.
2) Run them until they get cancelled, being willing to burn them out to eke out an extra few sales.

Option one seems like the route you're taking, and it seems prudent--make some money off the cards, then stop sales on them and keep the cards. Win-win (even if a shame you can't keep selling indefinitely).

If you literally don't care about the card at all, and would be cancelling it anyways, option two makes sense. (E.g. I have a few Barclay's I got for the miles and would have cancelled for the $89 annual fee, but I sell lines on them and have kept them open. I would cancel, and would be fine if they closed them for me, not worried about the tiny credit ding.)

Even if each card is only good for a few hundred/few thousand in tradeline sales before stopping, better than nothing if they're just sitting in a drawer, especially if you have quite a few in that position.

Would you say what you did with tradeline sales to this point was worth it overall?
We are two former teachers who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, and now travel the world full time with two kids.
If you want to know more about me, or how we did that, or see lots of pictures, this Business Insider profile tells our story pretty well.
We (occasionally) blog at AdventuringAlong.com.
You can also read my forum "Journal."

secondcor521

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1586
  • Age: 49
  • Location: Boise, Idaho
  • Big cattle, no hat.
    • Age of Eon - Overwatch player videos
Thanks for the data/report, 2ndCor!

Seems like there's two ways to go:
1) Run cards until the issuers get mad, then stop.
2) Run them until they get cancelled, being willing to burn them out to eke out an extra few sales.

Option one seems like the route you're taking, and it seems prudent--make some money off the cards, then stop sales on them and keep the cards. Win-win (even if a shame you can't keep selling indefinitely).

If you literally don't care about the card at all, and would be cancelling it anyways, option two makes sense. (E.g. I have a few Barclay's I got for the miles and would have cancelled for the $89 annual fee, but I sell lines on them and have kept them open. I would cancel, and would be fine if they closed them for me, not worried about the tiny credit ding.)

Even if each card is only good for a few hundred/few thousand in tradeline sales before stopping, better than nothing if they're just sitting in a drawer, especially if you have quite a few in that position.

Would you say what you did with tradeline sales to this point was worth it overall?

Yes, I would definitely say so.  Tradeline sales represent about a 50 basis point reduction in my portfolio withdrawal rate (so from a 3% to a 2.5% WR, for example) over the past year and a half.  While not strictly necessary in my case mathematically, as a new FIREee in February 2016, the extra income has helped ease me into FIRE.

Option two makes sense except for the potential of ending up on an issuer black list permanently.  I know from other bank games in the past that these exist and are used by the banks.  What I do not know is the chance that piggybacking would result in ending up on one of these lists.  Ending up on an issuer black list isn't really even a problem; it's the loss of being able to get new cards with sign-on bonuses that might represent an economic loss.  So if piggybacking a Barclay's card, as in your example, gains you $500 in sales but ends you up on a black list with Barclay's and you can't get the new Barclay's Aviator Card and lose out on a $500 bonus after $3000 in spend, you may just be treading water.  The variables here are that $3000 in spend may be harder than adding a couple of AU's, but it's also non-taxable income as a bonus instead of AU sales.

I used to worry about the credit ding, but in the option two scenario I believe it would be marked "Closed by credit grantor", and there are a number of innocuous reasons for an account to be marked that way, and I doubt they would add commentary to your credit file to assert you were a piggybacker.  And even if they did, I don't think other credit grantors would read it.

Another factor in my situation is that with my financial situation getting more secure and me getting more comfortable, I just really don't need the income and the hassle, even though as a gig overall it's obviously an excellent one.  Call me spoiled rotten lazy, I guess.

I did not mention yet that I have other USBank cards that are aging, so after I add the one additional AU on each of the "in danger" cards, I'll transfer most of the CL from them to the aging cards and should therefore have some young cards with juicy limits that may get additional AU sales.  This is a strategy that might work in general - burn and churn older cards down to newer ones over time.

@MasterStache, my USAA card was with Old Company at the time that I got the warning call from USAA, and most of the AU sales on it were with Old Company.

@Orin! and in general, I think the real issue is not the rate of AUs, it's the total AUs added to the card over the card's lifetime.  As an example, my USAA card had a total of 13 AU's on it in the past ~18 months...definitely not typical usage.  If I were the CC companies and I wanted to catch piggybackers, that's how I'd write the query - give me all the cards who have had more than, say, 5 or 10 unique AUs added over their lifetime.

MasterStache

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1562
@MasterStache, my USAA card was with Old Company at the time that I got the warning call from USAA, and most of the AU sales on it were with Old Company.

Gotchya! I assumed you were referring to the new company, my bad. I only just signed up with the old company roughly 3 months ago but am seeing regular sales. I may just rest the card for a bit after a while. Thanks for the DP.

beekayworld

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 39
I just added an AU on my Chase card. It wasn't paired with another card, so I assume the New Company no longer requires a user to purchase two lines when one is Chase.

Also, my Capital One shows a pending add even though the July 2nd email had said they were resting CapOne until internal audits are over. Maybe the internal audits have ended?

FrontRanger

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 42
The Barclay's online form doesn't let you put in a SSN. They recommend you call and add it, but I've never had an issue with one posting without.

It uses the other info: The person's name, DOB, and address. (Other cc companies won't let you put an address, but do allow a SSN.) Given enough data, they match it to the right person.

Good to know Arlesby. I will just continue to add online and not call. So much easier!

meatgrinder

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 65
I added Joe Schmoe on my Citi card as an AU a couple months ago. Yesterday I got snail mail from Chase noting they were closing Joe Schmoe's account due to potential fraud. Any ideas on how this can happen?  The last four numbers of the Chase account for Joe Schmoe were not any of mine but it was sent to my address.

dragoncar

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 7966
  • Registered member
I added Joe Schmoe on my Citi card as an AU a couple months ago. Yesterday I got snail mail from Chase noting they were closing Joe Schmoe's account due to potential fraud. Any ideas on how this can happen?  The last four numbers of the Chase account for Joe Schmoe were not any of mine but it was sent to my address.

Your address ends up on their credit report, and potentially theirs on yours.  It's one of the dangers of this business and why you really want to make sure these people are legit.

MasterStache

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1562
Hmm, I am pretty sure I got rewarded with a $25 bonus (2500 points) for activating the AU card and using it for a purchase with USAA. Going to try again with a new AU card and see if it happens again. If so that is a little added bonus. 


frugalnacho

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3149
  • Age: 35
  • Location: Madison Heights, Michigan
How quickly do you add AU?  I got an email monday evening saying I had new AU to add, but I didn't have time to log in and get the info and call yet.  I got an email from TL company today asking if they were added saying there were due by 5/21 (the night I got the notification).  Now I'm ready to add them, but the email made it sound like if they weren't added by 5/21 she had to replace them, so I don't know if I should go ahead and add them or if she's going to move them to another card.  This card has been filling up consistently and I just removed 2 AU last week, so I expect I'd get another 2 slots right away.

Do you jump on adding AU immediately? What's a reasonable time frame to get them added?  I feel like it often takes a week or so to show up after adding them anyway.

Well apparently if you don't add them by the due date you don't get paid.  So I got 6 hours notice to add them (got emails at 5:29 PM and 5:48PM on 5/21 that were apparently due to add by 5/21).  Since I added them late (48 hours after notified) I got to take all the risk of adding weird names to my card, used up my 2 slots (since it's suspicious to remove AU so quickly I've been instructed to leave them), got to sit on the phone with citi for 20 minutes, and I don't get paid.  wtf new company?

I ended up getting an email that one of these adds didn't post.  When I look at my credit portal one is listed red, the other listed green indicating that one of them posted and the other one didn't.  I don't know how that makes any sense since I added them both during the same phone call, and the phone call was definitely just after the closing date.

So now I don't know if I am getting paid for neither of these, or just one.  I got a $75 deposit to my account, but I don't know if it's for one of these, or if it's to make up for the 3 previous sales they shortchanged me $25/each on.

frugalnacho

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3149
  • Age: 35
  • Location: Madison Heights, Michigan
Just had a weird experience calling bank of america.  I am due to remove an AU so I call and ask them to remove the AU and they tell me the AU is not listed.  They check into it, and the AU was listed but was removed May 27.  wtf? I never called in to remove that AU, especially 6 weeks ahead of schedule.

I did not press them for details because I don't want to draw any more suspicion to myself, but WTF is going on with that?

EDIT: How do you see which AU are currently on your BoA account?  I have a different AU I've added that should still be on there, but I don't know how to verify that.  Hopefully they didn't just remove this AU without my request like they did the previous one.  I suppose I could call in and talk to a rep, but I'm afraid that would be suspicious and also I'd sound like an idiot for not knowing who my current AU are (even though I know who it's supposed to be).
« Last Edit: July 17, 2018, 09:48:00 AM by frugalnacho »

beekayworld

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 39
How do you see which AU are currently on your BoA account?  I have a different AU I've added that should still be on there, but I don't know how to verify that.  Hopefully they didn't just remove this AU without my request like they did the previous one.  I suppose I could call in and talk to a rep, but I'm afraid that would be suspicious and also I'd sound like an idiot for not knowing who my current AU are (even though I know who it's supposed to be).

Interesting! I understand your reluctance to call and ask suspicious questions. I agree that it would be better to find out another way.

I don't see a way to find out on the BofA website. (Some of the other cards have sections where we can manage our AUs, but BofA doesn't even provide good results for info in their search bar! "Authorized users" or "add user" search terms return results like "What is Twitter?" HA! Useless.)

I would send an email to the TL company and ask how an AU could have been removed.  I wouldn't think the TL company could do it, or would do it, and would find it very difficult and rare for an AU to remove himself. The TL company is a good resource for these kinds of questions.

Also, the TL company runs credit reports on the buyers (to confirm the add occurred or didn't occur) so they will know which of the AUs were on the card as of the date of their last credit reports (IF it shows on the credit report).

If you do decide to call BofA to be sure, maybe you can call and say you want to confirm that an AU is still on. If they say "No, would you like to add him back?" ask if he was able to remove himself and say you will chat with him and find out if he removed himself and get back to them.

Frankly, I wouldn't bother. I would just communicate with the TL company to get as close to the perfect answer as possible.  If the card wasn't on an AU's last credit report, it doesn't mean he's not still an AU on the card; it just didn't report correctly (yet). But if the card WAS on someone's last credit report, then you know he was an AU as of the last closing date anyway.

The rarity and difficulty of an AU removing himself wouldn't make it worth my while to investigate to the nth degree.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2018, 12:11:02 PM by beekayworld »

beekayworld

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 39
How do you see which AU are currently on your BoA account?  I have a different AU I've added that should still be on there, but I don't know how to verify that.  Hopefully they didn't just remove this AU without my request like they did the previous one.  I suppose I could call in and talk to a rep, but I'm afraid that would be suspicious and also I'd sound like an idiot for not knowing who my current AU are (even though I know who it's supposed to be).

Interesting! I understand your reluctance to call and ask suspicious questions. I agree that it would be better to find out another way.

I don't see a way to find out on the BofA website. (Some of the other cards have sections where we can manage our AUs, but BofA doesn't even provide good results for info in their search bar! "Authorized users" or "add user" search terms return results like "What is Twitter?" HA! Useless.)

I would send an email to the TL company and ask how an AU could have been removed.  I wouldn't think the TL company could do it, or would do it, and would find it very difficult and rare for an AU to remove himself. The TL company is a good resource for these kinds of questions.

Also, the TL company runs credit reports on the buyers (to confirm the add occurred or didn't occur) so they will know which of the AUs were on the card as of the date of their last credit reports (IF it shows on the credit report).

If you do decide to call BofA to be sure, maybe you can call and say you want to confirm that an AU is still on. If they say "No, would you like to add him back?" ask if he was able to remove himself and say you will chat with him and find out if he removed himself and get back to them.

Frankly, I wouldn't bother. I would just communicate with the TL company to get as close to the perfect answer as possible.  If the card wasn't on an AU's last credit report, it doesn't mean he's not still an AU on the card; it just didn't report correctly (yet). But if the card WAS on someone's last credit report, then you know he was an AU as of the last closing date anyway.

There's got to be like a 99% chance that someone you added is still on. And if the TL says his credit report shows he is still on (most likely), just leave it until they instruct you to remove it.

The rarity and difficulty of an AU removing himself wouldn't make it worth my while to investigate to the nth degree.

Arbit Trage

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 10
  • Location: WNC
Just to get an update (sorry if already covered)...okay to use Discover? Thinking about adding it with the old company.

erutio

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 178
Expect closures with Discover. 

I had one discover card closed last summer.  They will blacklist you also, because after my card was closed, I tried to apply for a new one, ~9 months afterwards.  They responded with something to the effect of "Due to your previous history, you cannot apply for more Discover cards."

My wife has a discover card that we are seasoning. Once the tradeline is old enough to sell, we plan to churn through selling as many spots as we can, before they inevitably shut down the card. 

Orin!

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 52
Expect closures with Discover. 

I had one discover card closed last summer.  They will blacklist you also, because after my card was closed, I tried to apply for a new one, ~9 months afterwards.  They responded with something to the effect of "Due to your previous history, you cannot apply for more Discover cards."

My wife has a discover card that we are seasoning. Once the tradeline is old enough to sell, we plan to churn through selling as many spots as we can, before they inevitably shut down the card.

@erutio
How many slots did you sell and how fast before they closed? And did you have any ther ďirregularĒ activity around that time that would have caused them to close? And were you running purchased through it as well?

erutio

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 178
How many slots did you sell and how fast before they closed?
I sold a total of 7 spots from Jan 2017 to July 2017.  Never more than 2 at a time.  It went like Jan 2, Mar 2, May 1, Jul 2 spots. Closed in Jul 2017.

And did you have any ther ďirregularĒ activity around that time that would have caused them to close?
No irregular activity as far as I know.  I got paid for all spots.  I just logged in one day and my Discover online account said I had $0 available credit.  Somewhere in the middle of this thread are a few posts describing from other members what happened when they tried calling the executive office.

And were you running purchased through it as well?
Yes, like $3-5 worth of amazon gc per month that where AUs.

Irinas

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 6
Wow!

This is concerning. I believe, no one was reporting blacklisting before.


I got my BOA closed in the past for "irregular AU activity", but not only BOA let me keep other BOA accounts, they also let me to open new ones later on.

« Last Edit: July 17, 2018, 07:02:32 PM by Irinas »

dragoncar

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 7966
  • Registered member
Wow!

This is concerning. I believe, no one was reporting blacklisting before.


I got my BOA closed in the past, but not only BOA let me keep other BOA accounts, they also let me to open new ones later on.

probably, nobody tried before

this sounds like a case for that guy that cues credit card companies, if they're apparent reason for denying the application was "your history"

Padonak

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 258

I got my BOA closed in the past for "irregular AU activity", but not only BOA let me keep other BOA accounts, they also let me to open new ones later on.

BOA also closed my card for the same reason. Haven't tried applying for new accounts, but other accounts I have with them are still open.

Orin!

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 52
One may want to occasionally run a larger transaction than just $3-$5 through the card a month.

Car Jack

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 719
One may want to occasionally run a larger transaction than just $3-$5 through the card a month.

I have no proof, but just put myself in the shoes of the cc company.  If they look at your account and see that you add an AU and then charge only amazon GCs, that is sure screaming "Tradeline".  What I do is literally use the card that the AU goes on to do the next purchase I need to do.  Gas, grocery shopping, lunch out.  At least it's something different every time.

erutio

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 178
I have no proof, but just put myself in the shoes of the cc company.  If they look at your account and see that you add an AU and then charge only amazon GCs, that is sure screaming "Tradeline".  What I do is literally use the card that the AU goes on to do the next purchase I need to do.  Gas, grocery shopping, lunch out.  At least it's something different every time.

Yeah, I get that.
But I'm putting the small charges on my account to make sure to the tradeline reports to the credit bureaus for the new AUs, not necessarily to throw the CC companies off the scent of tradelines being sold. 
If they really wanted to shut down accounts for tradeline selling, they would look at the AU history and easily figure it out. A couple of different transactions here and there doesn't make it NOT look like you're selling tradelines.

I actually would like to do some version of what you do, but I didn't have enough monthly transactions at the right exact times to make it work.  I also don't want to carry my catalog of credit cards with me at all times.  I thought maybe I'd go to the gas station and buy a pack of gum or something, but that involves extra travel and planning, and sometimes an extra trip out the house. I guess this is one of those Mustachian people problems.  AMZ GCs were the path of least resistance, takes about 15 seconds online, and I just put my credit cards away next to my computer until next month.   

Orin!

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 52
Anyone had closures on discover in the last couple months?

Maybe they finished their review?

I know they were doing all sorts of reviews 3-5 months ago. Asking for documents from various people I know that do have a discover card but never had anything to do with tradelines.

One good thing about Discover is that right after you add the AU it reports it to credit agencies. Does not wait until closing statement.

dragoncar

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 7966
  • Registered member
Anyone had closures on discover in the last couple months?

Maybe they finished their review?

I know they were doing all sorts of reviews 3-5 months ago. Asking for documents from various people I know that do have a discover card but never had anything to do with tradelines.

One good thing about Discover is that right after you add the AU it reports it to credit agencies. Does not wait until closing statement.

They may have finished their review, but if they do another one in a year you are hosed.  IMO if you choose to enroll your discover card, burn it to the ground.  Iím salty that I only got two sales and lost my card (and potentially blacklisted).  I should have asked for a reduced commission or something to sell more spots if I was going to lose it anyways