Author Topic: Selling Tradelines / Piggybacking: $1000+/hr, 20-40k/yr. Side Gig  (Read 124139 times)

boarder42

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Re: Selling Tradelines / Piggybacking: $600+/hr, 20-40k/yr. Side Gig
« Reply #50 on: July 18, 2016, 08:11:39 PM »
Who cares throw it in the trash?
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Re: Selling Tradelines / Piggybacking: $600+/hr, 20-40k/yr. Side Gig
« Reply #51 on: July 18, 2016, 09:22:37 PM »
Who cares throw it in the trash?

I don't want to annoy my parents or my renters. That's why I care.
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boarder42

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Re: Selling Tradelines / Piggybacking: $600+/hr, 20-40k/yr. Side Gig
« Reply #52 on: July 19, 2016, 05:25:53 AM »
Who cares throw it in the trash?

I don't want to annoy my parents or my renters. That's why I care.

you can send it to my address for a 20% cut.
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Re: Selling Tradelines / Piggybacking: $600+/hr, 20-40k/yr. Side Gig
« Reply #53 on: July 19, 2016, 10:59:21 AM »
following, might have to look into this more. Thanks ARS!

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Re: Selling Tradelines / Piggybacking: $600+/hr, 20-40k/yr. Side Gig
« Reply #54 on: July 19, 2016, 11:16:38 AM »
Awesome!  Sounds like a great, low-hassle side gig.
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Re: Selling Tradelines / Piggybacking: $600+/hr, 20-40k/yr. Side Gig
« Reply #55 on: July 19, 2016, 11:38:48 AM »
Does anyone know if this is an option for Canadians living in Canada?

I haven't checked in detail, but my guess is no.
Credit scores/histories aren't used extensively as they in the US (they are used for almost everything in the US) and Canadian lenders/credit issuers tend to take income more into account, arguably they are doing more due diligence.
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Re: Selling Tradelines / Piggybacking: $600+/hr, 20-40k/yr. Side Gig
« Reply #56 on: July 19, 2016, 11:51:57 AM »
There is likely a small window for this bc it will be exploited and cc companies will change their terms or just start canceling and blacklisting people.

It has been going on since at least 2007
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boarder42

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Re: Selling Tradelines / Piggybacking: $600+/hr, 20-40k/yr. Side Gig
« Reply #57 on: July 19, 2016, 12:28:05 PM »
There is likely a small window for this bc it will be exploited and cc companies will change their terms or just start canceling and blacklisting people.

It has been going on since at least 2007
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Unrelated note, man, Jonathon at My Money Blog has been around forever, and has covered everything :)

yeah and its probably starting to hit its peak as the markets get more saturated with cards.  i'll take an extra 20k a year while i can get it.  just wish i had more cards.
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Re: Selling Tradelines / Piggybacking: $600+/hr, 20-40k/yr. Side Gig
« Reply #58 on: July 19, 2016, 01:56:43 PM »
Fico 8 already tried to address this issue and the cc companies said no they wanted it left in place.  I don't see how it's wire fraud I think that's quite a stretch. If any aspect of this was wire fraud the companies creating the connection wouldn't be operating on US soil and that would raise all sorts of red flags. There is no law against adding someone as an authorized user to increase their credit. Traditionally it has been a relative or a spouse but there is no law against it.   The same logic could be applied to credit card churning for sign up bonuses. Or the tax loop holes people use.  You can derive almost anything that's a grey area to "fraud"
I'm with you on this. There is no law that explicitly says you can't add authorized users to increase their credit.

I think about the newer "5/24 rule" that credit card companies started implementing to slow down churning. It's not against the law, but they basically changed their terms and conditions to limit churning.

Similarly, there is no law saying you can't sell your credit card points and miles, yet doing so would completely violate terms and conditions. Having a 3rd party book a flight for some random person using your miles is up the same alley.

I'm not trying to compare apples to apples here, but just wanted to put out a few applicable examples of TOS violations.

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Re: Selling Tradelines / Piggybacking: $600+/hr, 20-40k/yr. Side Gig
« Reply #59 on: July 19, 2016, 11:16:19 PM »
To address a few concerns that have been brought up...

1) The concern of stolen credit/dead people/fake social security numbers

This is absolutely a valid concern.  The company I use only works only with real people, with real social security numbers and verified proof of identity they keep on file.

They have been in business several years and thousands of trade line sales, and have never had a single case of fraud or attempted ID theft.  This is why I emphasized in the OP that you should make sure you're working with a legitimate company, because there are shady ones out there.

A specific red flag to look out for: ask if the company accepts the use of a "CPN" or credit privacy number, rather than a SSN--social security number.  If so, avoid them, IMO, as these are much more common for scams.  It's your choice, obviously, but that was one of the decisions I made to help stay on the legitimate side of this activity.

2) Concerning junk mail

This is what I was told when I inquired about this:
Quote
Will I begin to receive mail addressed to the authorized user?   Unlikely. Although it is somewhat rare, it is not unusual for an investor to receive a letter addressed to an AU you had recently added, and it is no security concern. Many of these AUs are purchasing tradelines to boost their credit score in order to establish their own credit. Some either did not have family members to help establish their credit or may have had great credit in their home country, but when they came to the United States they lost all that good credit history and have to start over. As such, when the AU applied for their credit card, the bank saw that a new address had recently been added to their credit profile. To ensure that they receive their credit card and future offers, the bank sends a letter to both the address they applied with (their own address), as well as the new address on file.

Again, these pieces of mail consist of either courtesy confirmation letters or credit card offers and are in no way tied to you. Your name will not be listed on the mail, which is again, because the mail has no connection with you, but are sent to your address since the most recent address on the AUís credit file is your address. After you remove the AU, your address will fall off their credit file in about 30≠60 days. Should you receive another piece of mail addressed to them, say if they apply for another credit card and they send them a courtesy letter or offers for other credit cards, simply write "return to sender" on the envelope and stick it back in your mailbox and the post office will know not to send any future correspondence with that name to your address.

Thanks for everyone contributing to this thread. This is definitely an interesting opportunity, but also one that has obvious pitfalls and concerns.  Hopefully by sharing what we can here in this thread, we can all learn more from each other.

Cheers!  :)
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Re: Selling Tradelines / Piggybacking: $600+/hr, 20-40k/yr. Side Gig
« Reply #60 on: July 19, 2016, 11:54:25 PM »
To address a few concerns that have been brought up...

1) The concern of stolen credit/dead people/fake social security numbers

This is absolutely a valid concern.  The company I use only works only with real people, with real social security numbers and verified proof of identity they keep on file.

They have been in business several years and thousands of trade line sales, and have never had a single case of fraud or attempted ID theft.  This is why I emphasized in the OP that you should make sure you're working with a legitimate company, because there are shady ones out there.

A specific red flag to look out for: ask if the company accepts the use of a "CPN" or credit privacy number, rather than a SSN--social security number.  If so, avoid them, IMO, as these are much more common for scams.  It's your choice, obviously, but that was one of the decisions I made to help stay on the legitimate side of this activity.

2) Concerning junk mail

This is what I was told when I inquired about this:
Quote
Will I begin to receive mail addressed to the authorized user?   Unlikely. Although it is somewhat rare, it is not unusual for an investor to receive a letter addressed to an AU you had recently added, and it is no security concern. Many of these AUs are purchasing tradelines to boost their credit score in order to establish their own credit. Some either did not have family members to help establish their credit or may have had great credit in their home country, but when they came to the United States they lost all that good credit history and have to start over. As such, when the AU applied for their credit card, the bank saw that a new address had recently been added to their credit profile. To ensure that they receive their credit card and future offers, the bank sends a letter to both the address they applied with (their own address), as well as the new address on file.

Again, these pieces of mail consist of either courtesy confirmation letters or credit card offers and are in no way tied to you. Your name will not be listed on the mail, which is again, because the mail has no connection with you, but are sent to your address since the most recent address on the AUís credit file is your address. After you remove the AU, your address will fall off their credit file in about 30≠60 days. Should you receive another piece of mail addressed to them, say if they apply for another credit card and they send them a courtesy letter or offers for other credit cards, simply write "return to sender" on the envelope and stick it back in your mailbox and the post office will know not to send any future correspondence with that name to your address.

Thanks for everyone contributing to this thread. This is definitely an interesting opportunity, but also one that has obvious pitfalls and concerns.  Hopefully by sharing what we can here in this thread, we can all learn more from each other.

Cheers!  :)

And thank you for all the info! I'm going to go ahead and give it a test run as well and i'll report back here on my result.  I'm pretty intrigued, but I still can't quite shake the  "too good to be true" feeling.  Guess I'll find out.   

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Re: Selling Tradelines / Piggybacking: $600+/hr, 20-40k/yr. Side Gig
« Reply #61 on: July 21, 2016, 01:01:49 PM »
When I worked in banking, I was always under the impressions that becoming an "Authorized User" of a credit card did nothing to your credit score. Becoming a "co-owner" is what effects the score. Has anyone seen the proof of how this helps the intended client?

boarder42

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Re: Selling Tradelines / Piggybacking: $600+/hr, 20-40k/yr. Side Gig
« Reply #62 on: July 21, 2016, 02:50:53 PM »
When I worked in banking, I was always under the impressions that becoming an "Authorized User" of a credit card did nothing to your credit score. Becoming a "co-owner" is what effects the score. Has anyone seen the proof of how this helps the intended client?

pretty sure there wouldnt be an industry for it that has been around over 10 years if people werent actually getting raised credit scores buying them. 
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arebelspy

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Re: Selling Tradelines / Piggybacking: $600+/hr, 20-40k/yr. Side Gig
« Reply #63 on: July 21, 2016, 02:59:00 PM »
When I worked in banking, I was always under the impressions that becoming an "Authorized User" of a credit card did nothing to your credit score. Becoming a "co-owner" is what effects the score. Has anyone seen the proof of how this helps the intended client?

Yes, I have some very direct proof: myself.

My parents added me as an authorized user on one of their cards, which was 15 years old, when I was 16 (it was opened a year after I was born).  I immediately had great credit, and that made getting credit cards and such when I was first starting out very easy (obviously a potential double edged sword if you don't know how to use credit).

IMO, all parents should add their kids to their cards (assuming the cards have a good history), and teach them to use credit responsibly.

The wife and I are thinking of adding her younger sister to some of our cards before they buy a house.

Authorized users definitely have their scores increased by having the card on their credit report.  :)
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Re: Selling Tradelines / Piggybacking: $600+/hr, 20-40k/yr. Side Gig
« Reply #64 on: July 21, 2016, 03:04:50 PM »
Does anyone have any tips for increasing their credit limits to $10k? I tried asking for that but got countered to $3900. Which is surprising because I have pristine credit and 2+ years of credit history. I also have increased income after I graduated college.

Should I try visiting the bank in person?

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Re: Selling Tradelines / Piggybacking: $600+/hr, 20-40k/yr. Side Gig
« Reply #65 on: July 21, 2016, 03:05:56 PM »
I would be very careful with this.  This appears to be a classic scheme to defraud, and it is a federal crime because of the use of the wires (emails, money transfers, etc.).

The key is that you're assisting in a scheme to mislead the entities issuing credit to the people that you seek to add as authorized users.  Put aside the ethical issues for a second.  Those entities lend money to individuals at a certain rate based on a certain credit history.  Anything dishonest misleads the entities into lending at a different rate, and the consequences in aggregate do matter assuming that the entities price their credit correctly.  It doesn't matter whether you believe the credit entities should charge the rates they do, etc.  The only thing that matters is the misrepresentation to the entities extending credit of those individuals credit histories.

So how does that affect you?  You're helping them in the scheme to defraud.  Specifically, by adding them to your credit card as authorized users, you create a false credit history for them.  It doesn't matter that they're not family members or that there is an "other" category.  The misrepresentation on your part is that they are authorized users.  An authorized user is one who has access to and the ability to use the credit on your credit card.  In fact, they do not.  While you feel protected behind the shield of the fact that the card is just sent to you, that's easily penetrated when you have a number of different individuals not associated with you in any way who purportedly have the ability to use your cards but never do.  Intend to place a few charges on those cards to make it look legit?  See--there's a fraudulent act to make it legit.

While you could claim ignorance for one or two and you probably wouldn't be prosecuted, once you do this on a systematic basis, it's going to be easy to prove that your authorized users are nothing of the kind, and that you're getting paid to add them shortly before they apply for credit somewhere else.

How else do you prove it?  You're getting paid.  For what?  If the purported authorized users can't actually use your card, then there's no risk of unwanted charges.  The only risk you bear is that you might lose your credit card, but that's not a legitimate risk--that's a risk because you're knowingly violating the terms of service for the credit cards.  So if you're not getting paid for a legitimately born risk, and you're not adding any legal value, what are you being paid for?  To assist the fraud.  It's just like the people who launder money.

Feel like the banks don't really care, so it doesn't matter?  Not a legal defense.  It was pushed frequently in the mortgage fraud cases on the basis that the banks just wanted to issue mortgages and didn't care about misrepresentations of salary, references, etc.  Too bad.  Courts held that was not relevant, and not a defense to the misrepresentations (or assists--if you were the one who offered the purported salary or job reference) in a mortgage fraud case. 

Again, all I can do is recommend that you think very carefully about proceeding with this.  Think in particular about what exactly you're getting paid for, what the benefit is to the purported authorized users, and how exactly they benefit.  Once you boil it down, the ultimate goal is to mislead the banks extending credit to the purported authorized users in order to get a better rate, and that's fraud.  All it takes is one interstate wire--which includes a wire of money, and email, anything, almost all of which travel across interstate or international lines--and now it's federal.   

The case is also easy to prove.  Again, not an issue if there are just one or two, but once you engage in the pattern, all it will take is subpoenas to the banks for your records, the bank and payment records for the intermediary entity you're referring to, DMV records for the purported authorized users to show that they have no connection to you or to each other, and indeed, will almost certainly have a comical (to the jury, not you) lack of geographic ties.  The credit entity will testify that they based their loan rate on the belief that the purported authorized user was legit, and the records will show the money to you.  The purported authorized users will testify against you, and they won't be prosecuted because they'll be one off individuals who will get away with claiming that they didn't know that they weren't really authorized users, didn't know what that term meant, etc.  But you won't because there's a pattern, and all the prosecutor has to show is your purported users weren't ever in fact authorized to do anything.  And if you have any thought to paper over it by putting a few charges on the card, ask yourself why you're doing that.  Because it's going to look to the jury like your attempt to make them appear authorized, showing that you knew they weren't really authorized users and negating an ignorance defense.

I enjoy your posts and all the very helpful advice you give on this board.  I'm not looking to debate any of this, but consider it my contribution to your thought process in deciding if this is something you really ought to do.  And to be clear--none of what I'm saying is based on ethical considerations.  It is entirely a question of criminal fraud law.   And I'm not giving you any legal advice.  Just things to consider to do with as you will.

+1

This is a sketchy, foul smelling scheme. You're getting paid to cheat lenders. This crosses the line and is disgusting IMO
« Last Edit: July 21, 2016, 03:13:47 PM by Yankuba »

DrF

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Re: Selling Tradelines / Piggybacking: $600+/hr, 20-40k/yr. Side Gig
« Reply #66 on: July 21, 2016, 03:09:19 PM »
Does anyone have any tips for increasing their credit limits to $10k? I tried asking for that but got countered to $3900. Which is surprising because I have pristine credit and 2+ years of credit history. I also have increased income after I graduated college.

Should I try visiting the bank in person?

You should open other cards. Once you have those cards open then you can request more credit on the original card. Credit card companies don't like it if you only have 1 card. After you have a few cards for a few years they give you 10-20k limits right when you open a new card.

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Re: Selling Tradelines / Piggybacking: $600+/hr, 20-40k/yr. Side Gig
« Reply #67 on: July 21, 2016, 03:09:59 PM »
How do you get paid? Direct deposit or physical check?

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Re: Selling Tradelines / Piggybacking: $600+/hr, 20-40k/yr. Side Gig
« Reply #68 on: July 21, 2016, 03:13:56 PM »
How do you get paid? Direct deposit or physical check?

Direct deposit.
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Re: Selling Tradelines / Piggybacking: $600+/hr, 20-40k/yr. Side Gig
« Reply #69 on: July 21, 2016, 03:16:41 PM »
When I worked in banking, I was always under the impressions that becoming an "Authorized User" of a credit card did nothing to your credit score. Becoming a "co-owner" is what effects the score. Has anyone seen the proof of how this helps the intended client?

Yes, I have some very direct proof: myself.

My parents added me as an authorized user on one of their cards, which was 15 years old, when I was 16 (it was opened a year after I was born).  I immediately had great credit, and that made getting credit cards and such when I was first starting out very easy (obviously a potential double edged sword if you don't know how to use credit).

IMO, all parents should add their kids to their cards (assuming the cards have a good history), and teach them to use credit responsibly.

The wife and I are thinking of adding her younger sister to some of our cards before they buy a house.

Authorized users definitely have their scores increased by having the card on their credit report.  :)
One-up story: wife has been an AU on a chase card that was originally opened 10 years before she was born. Judging from the reactions she would get, college town bankers don't see many freshmen with 800+ scores and almost 30 years of perfect payment history very often.

Anyone who pays their bills on time can give their kids a massive leg up in the world in under 5 minutes by doing this. They don't even have to know about it, just cut up the card when it gets delivered.

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Re: Selling Tradelines / Piggybacking: $600+/hr, 20-40k/yr. Side Gig
« Reply #70 on: July 21, 2016, 03:33:12 PM »
When I worked in banking, I was always under the impressions that becoming an "Authorized User" of a credit card did nothing to your credit score. Becoming a "co-owner" is what effects the score. Has anyone seen the proof of how this helps the intended client?

Yes, I have some very direct proof: myself.

Yes, my parents added me as an AU on their card and I can see the oldest line of credit is years before I ever had my own credit card. And the average age is about 50% older than it really should be because I've been on two of their cards over the years (one back when I was in college, one currently). I didn't check my credit report until after I'd been added on their cards so I can't say for sure if the FICO changed, but I would assume so.
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Re: Selling Tradelines / Piggybacking: $600+/hr, 20-40k/yr. Side Gig
« Reply #71 on: July 21, 2016, 03:51:31 PM »
ARS, what is the suggested ideal strategy for people who want to both do travel hacking / credit card churning and selling tradelines and maximize their ROI?

I've done credit card hijinks for a long time and suspect I could probably come up with 10-12 lines that could work for this.
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Re: Selling Tradelines / Piggybacking: $600+/hr, 20-40k/yr. Side Gig
« Reply #72 on: July 21, 2016, 03:54:00 PM »
Are the listed banks the only ones this works with? I have 2 Chase cards and SO has a Chase card and a USAA card that meet the criteria. My other cards are AMEX or not old enough.

It depends on the trade line company you use.

For the company I use: Chase works fine (though be careful with them, as I mentioned in the OP, they're the one to be most careful about, such that the company I use restricts Chase to every 3rd month instead of every other to help reduce the chances of getting them shut down).  USAA works, I believe.

A bunch of cards work (Citi, Fidelity, Discover, Barclay, etc. etc.).  Amex don't, business cards don't, PenFed doesn't.  Most other ones do, or can be set up.
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Re: Selling Tradelines / Piggybacking: $600+/hr, 20-40k/yr. Side Gig
« Reply #73 on: July 21, 2016, 03:57:07 PM »
ARS, what is the suggested ideal strategy for people who want to both do travel hacking / credit card churning and selling tradelines and maximize their ROI?

I've done credit card hijinks for a long time and suspect I could probably come up with 10-12 lines that could work for this.

They shouldn't interfere at all--you use your old cards (2+ years) to sell trade lines on, and you open new cards to travel hack.

If anything, selling trade lines may help you travel hack, due to raising your credit limits on older ones to get paid more for them, and that helping your score and getting auto-approvals for travel hacking.  Also, for example, two cards I had that just hit two years old that I would normally have cancelled because of the $89 annual fee, I left open because I can (and did) enroll them in this.  Those will eventually help my score as well.

If it's a card that you can get bonuses multiple times, but have to cancel and wait 18 mo. or whatever (rare, but they happen), obviously just cancel those and don't use them for selling trade lines.

But there's no reason selling trade lines on older cards should interfere with getting new cards for travel hacking/churning.  :)
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Re: Selling Tradelines / Piggybacking: $600+/hr, 20-40k/yr. Side Gig
« Reply #74 on: July 22, 2016, 05:00:09 AM »
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SamIAm38

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Re: Selling Tradelines / Piggybacking: $600+/hr, 20-40k/yr. Side Gig
« Reply #75 on: July 22, 2016, 07:04:47 AM »
Really interesting, thanks for spending the time to communicate this

iris lily

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Re: Selling Tradelines / Piggybacking: $600+/hr, 20-40k/yr. Side Gig
« Reply #76 on: July 22, 2016, 12:32:43 PM »
Just to follow.

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Re: Selling Tradelines / Piggybacking: $600+/hr, 20-40k/yr. Side Gig
« Reply #77 on: July 22, 2016, 10:32:25 PM »
I'm not claiming as a business. I'm just claiming as misc income then you avoid the self employment tax. It's not hardly enough income to raise a flag imo. It's all free money why do you care about withholding. You're on this site just save it and don't spend it.

I'm not an expert on 1099's, but from a quick Google, if they give you a 1099-MISC and report the payments to you in box 3, it seems OK to put that amount down as other income as boarder42 describes.  If they report their payments to you in box 7, it seems that one ought to put it on schedule C and SE and pay the self-employment taxes on top of the income taxes.
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Re: Selling Tradelines / Piggybacking: $600+/hr, 20-40k/yr. Side Gig
« Reply #78 on: July 23, 2016, 05:39:12 AM »
Are those lines that you can sell per card the safe amount, or would it be smart to sell less (for example, sell 4 lines on a citi card instead of 5)?

Also, what is your signal that you should remove someone, when you get paid so you know everything is posted? Soon as you get your next bill?

kpd905

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Re: Selling Tradelines / Piggybacking: $600+/hr, 20-40k/yr. Side Gig
« Reply #79 on: July 23, 2016, 05:41:08 AM »

Also, what is your signal that you should remove someone, when you get paid so you know everything is posted? Soon as you get your next bill?

The site tells you the exact date to remove someone.  For me, it has been one day before my statement posts.  So you add them a day or two before the statement, then remove them a day before as well.
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Re: Selling Tradelines / Piggybacking: $600+/hr, 20-40k/yr. Side Gig
« Reply #80 on: July 23, 2016, 05:54:55 AM »
Are those lines that you can sell per card the safe amount, or would it be smart to sell less (for example, sell 4 lines on a citi card instead of 5)?

For the site I use, they've pretty much tailored it to be specific to the cc company in question.. so some they have capped at 2 (Bank of America, a few others), Chase is capped at 2 (but they recommend you just use one) and they have it on a 3-month rotation instead of 2 months, etc.  You can always do less if you're worried, but I'm basically good with their recommendations (e.g. if they say, in their experience, Discover doesn't cancel people's cards for having 5 AUs, I'm good with that.. if something changes, it happens, but they're the ones with the data--they don't want your cards shut down either).


Also, what is your signal that you should remove someone, when you get paid so you know everything is posted? Soon as you get your next bill?

The site tells you the exact date to remove someone.  For me, it has been one day before my statement posts.  So you add them a day or two before the statement, then remove them a day before as well.

Yup.  They tell you when you can remove them.
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Re: Selling Tradelines / Piggybacking: $600+/hr, 20-40k/yr. Side Gig
« Reply #81 on: July 23, 2016, 07:19:30 AM »
Posting to follow.

It's probably not an activity I'll pursue myself, but it's reminded me that I ought to add my nieces and nephews as authorized users to give them a leg up in the future.

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Re: Selling Tradelines / Piggybacking: $600+/hr, 20-40k/yr. Side Gig
« Reply #82 on: July 23, 2016, 06:43:20 PM »

Snip

Quote
Will I begin to receive mail addressed to the authorized user?   

Snip

Should you receive another piece of mail addressed to them, say if they apply for another credit card and they send them a courtesy letter or offers for other credit cards, simply write "return to sender" on the envelope and stick it back in your mailbox and the post office will know not to send any future correspondence with that name to your address.

This is contrary to my experience.  The PO doesn't seem care about names, just the address.  I've been in my current place 10 years & still get mail for the former owner.  And I've had this experience over & over in different places.
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Re: Selling Tradelines / Piggybacking: $600+/hr, 20-40k/yr. Side Gig
« Reply #83 on: July 23, 2016, 07:24:00 PM »
Who the f cares about mail you throw in the trash. This whole i would trade 20-30k for no junk mail take is beyond comprehension.
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Re: Selling Tradelines / Piggybacking: $600+/hr, 20-40k/yr. Side Gig
« Reply #84 on: July 23, 2016, 07:36:08 PM »
I have a couple concerns before I would consider getting into something like this:

1) Do you have any idea of what kind of total timeframe these kind of companies have been operating for and what kind of future this side hustle has?... It would be a shame to get all excited about this only to be able to get 4 months in and government entity cracks down... Also someone who did not have cards that meet this criteria might open many cards waiting for 2 years to get started and then have this whole thing shut down before those cards are eligible

2) I'm really concerned about authorized users calling up and trying to get their card resent to their address. I feel like being an AU on a card would give these people opportunities to sweet talk a customer service representative into somehow getting them access to spend money on the credit line. Like you said in a previous post ARS, they are permitted to spend money on the card but don't have a means to... well what if they somehow create a means to access the account through customer service?
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Rubic

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Re: Selling Tradelines / Piggybacking: $600+/hr, 20-40k/yr. Side Gig
« Reply #85 on: July 23, 2016, 07:44:14 PM »
Datapoint (maybe?):

One redditor (vflame) claims 3 of his 5 cards were shutdown due to piggybacking.

https://www.reddit.com/r/financialindependence/comments/395sa0/experience_opinion_on_credit_card_piggybacking/

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Re: Selling Tradelines / Piggybacking: $600+/hr, 20-40k/yr. Side Gig
« Reply #86 on: July 23, 2016, 07:55:44 PM »
1) Do you have any idea of what kind of total timeframe these kind of companies have been operating for and what kind of future this side hustle has?... It would be a shame to get all excited about this only to be able to get 4 months in and government entity cracks down... Also someone who did not have cards that meet this criteria might open many cards waiting for 2 years to get started and then have this whole thing shut down before those cards are eligible

Depends on the company.  Some for years. 

As CanuckExpat pointed out, the activity itself has been going on for at least a decade:
It has been going on since at least 2007
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I wouldn't build any FIRE plans around this lasting forever, but I'd be happy to get two years out of it before any changes, or before cards get shut down, or whatever.  I don't anticipate either of those, but as boarder42 said, it's basically free money (the $/hour rate is ridiculous), so I'll ride it while I can.

There's a lot of churning/CC hacking stuff I only heard about afterwards and have been like "dang, bummer I missed that"--wouldn't be surprised if in a year, two years, whatever, something changes and I'm instead going "well, it was good while it lasted."

I wouldn't be opening new cards to do this in two years, but I definitely left cards open recently that just hit two years I had for travel hacking, and would have normally cancelled due to the $89 annual fee, but instead kept open and enrolled in this.

And if something does change (say with FICO calculations or something) and it gets shut down in 6 months, and you've made 10 grand in the meantime.. great?  You still have all your cards, an extra 5 figures in the bank, and it probably took you something like 10 hours for that 10 grand.  I'm okay with that.  :)

Quote
2) I'm really concerned about authorized users calling up and trying to get their card resent to their address. I feel like being an AU on a card would give these people opportunities to sweet talk a customer service representative into somehow getting them access to spend money on the credit line. Like you said in a previous post ARS, they are permitted to spend money on the card but don't have a means to... well what if they somehow create a means to access the account through customer service?

All major CC companies have a policy to only ship the card to the primary person's address (i.e. you).  If the AU calls in, they don't have any info to verify the account or change anything (they don't have your social, or DOB, or anything).  They are not an authorized user on the account itself to change any information.

Feel free to call your credit card company, right now, and ask them questions about authorized users.  Ask them if you add an AU, where is the card sent?  Ask them if the AU calls and wants a card sent to them (or wants to change the address on their account), can that happen?  The answers will be your house, and no, and no.

Go ahead and give them a call (the number on the back of your card) if you're worried about this.  The CC companies themselves will tell you it can't happen.  :)

(I did this myself, FWIW.)

One redditor (vflame) claims 3 of his 5 cards were shutdown due to piggybacking.

Without more data, hard to say anything on that.   It is certainly a risk, one that can be mitigated by putting less AUs on, and doing it less frequently.

For example, you could add up to 10 AUs (IIRC) on B of A, and do that every month.  The company I use caps it to 2 AUs, every 2 months.  They have experience with what the cc companies will/won't allow, and have different guidelines per credit card company.  Cards getting shut down definitely can happen.  If you go all out with this (and some companies will let you, because they don't care if you burn your cards), certainly you will get shut down.  If you're reasonable, perhaps not.

If that reddit user was doing a ton of AUs over and over on a card where the cc company is finickier, I totally believe they were shut down.
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Re: Selling Tradelines / Piggybacking: $600+/hr, 20-40k/yr. Side Gig
« Reply #87 on: July 23, 2016, 08:32:34 PM »
I wouldn't be opening new cards to do this in two years
Well if I don't open any more than I have 2 cards that meet the criteria:

1) is a capital one which is my oldest line of credit and I don't really want to loose
2) is a citi card that I use on everything for 2% cashback


I feel like I can't use either of these because i don't want my oldest line of credit closed and I don't want my primary card I use on almost everything closed. Are these valid concerns? would you use your main cards on this or basically just old churning cards you don't give two shits about?
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Re: Selling Tradelines / Piggybacking: $600+/hr, 20-40k/yr. Side Gig
« Reply #88 on: July 23, 2016, 08:50:18 PM »
I wouldn't be opening new cards to do this in two years
Well if I don't open any more than I have 2 cards that meet the criteria:

1) is a capital one which is my oldest line of credit and I don't really want to loose
2) is a citi card that I use on everything for 2% cashback


I feel like I can't use either of these because i don't want my oldest line of credit closed and I don't want my primary card I use on almost everything closed. Are these valid concerns? would you use your main cards on this or basically just old churning cards you don't give two shits about?

Disclaimer: It's 100% up to you.  If you aren't comfortable using them, DON'T.  Full stop, it's that simple.  :)

I will let you know some thoughts on why I'd use them, personally.  Regarding the first of the cards, even if it is cancelled, it stays on your credit report for up to 10 years.  So just because it's old, and sitting, isn't a reason not to use it, IMO.  You'll still have it on your report if it is cancelled, so might as well use it.

Now if it is cancelled, that'd be a bit bad for you, specifically, because you have so few accounts, so that would drop your available credit a lot (and raise your DTI).

With only two cards, I would be opening more anyways (even if this program didn't exist), to increase your available credit, show a higher diversity of accounts, start having more accounts aging on your report, and (most importantly?) for travel hacking bonuses!

With the second card you mention, you use it for 2% cash back.. okay, that's fine. This program should offer way more cash than whatever amount you earn in cash back, for one, but for two, just open another 2% cash back card? There's plenty.  Then put all your spending on that new card to get 2% back, and use your old 2% cash back for this program.

In other words, I'd definitely be opening new cards, but mainly to help your credit down the line.  That it lets you use your old cards for this is a profitable bonus.  There are other reasons, for you, why you may want to open new cards.  I wouldn't be opening them just to wait two years to use them for a trade line sales program, personally.  I'd be putting my old cards in this, and opening new ones also.

I think one's credit is an important asset to manage.  If this hurt your credit score, I'd likely avoid it (or at least really have to weigh it versus the payout--I may still do a few, just because the payment is SO ridiculous).  IMO, everyone should be working to build their credit.  But also, I think it's an asset to utilize.  It does you no good just sitting there.  Getting a good credit score to have it sit is pointless, unless you want bragging rights.  To me, utilizing it for balance transfer arbitrage, travel hacking, churning, and trade line sales is a smart use of your credit score, an important asset.

I'm sure plenty of other people would read your post, say "it's not worth it," and not enroll the cards.  That's absolutely fine.  I'm just saying why I would, and why I think it's good to build your credit, and then use it.

But again, read the first sentence of my reply, under the quote.  If it doesn't make you comfortable, don't do it.  Just giving some other thoughts that might be relevant to you (or someone else with a few old cards wondering the same thing).   :)
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Re: Selling Tradelines / Piggybacking: $600+/hr, 20-40k/yr. Side Gig
« Reply #89 on: July 24, 2016, 07:22:20 AM »
I'm  opening new cards. They are giving me bonuses. But I plan to pay the annual fee next year and then put them in this system the following year
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Re: Selling Tradelines / Piggybacking: $600+/hr, 20-40k/yr. Side Gig
« Reply #90 on: July 24, 2016, 09:24:00 AM »
Who the f cares about mail you throw in the trash. This whole i would trade 20-30k for no junk mail take is beyond comprehension.

Are you replying to me?  Because I don't care about your 20K one way or the other.  Just sharing my experience with the mail, especially after ARS's comical (to me) comment about how efficient the USPS (supposedly) is.
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Re: Selling Tradelines / Piggybacking: $600+/hr, 20-40k/yr. Side Gig
« Reply #91 on: July 24, 2016, 01:45:43 PM »
ARS, Do you think you will be able to or have you talked to people who have told you that you can consistently sell all your available slots on your cards? Like for example my GF and I added together have 3 different citi cards... does that mean consistent have 15 tradeline sales every 2 months?
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boarder42

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Re: Selling Tradelines / Piggybacking: $600+/hr, 20-40k/yr. Side Gig
« Reply #92 on: July 24, 2016, 01:53:22 PM »
ARS, Do you think you will be able to or have you talked to people who have told you that you can consistently sell all your available slots on your cards? Like for example my GF and I added together have 3 different citi cards... does that mean consistent have 15 tradeline sales every 2 months?

Citi is done on a monthly rotation. So it would be 15 a month
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CmFtns

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Re: Selling Tradelines / Piggybacking: $600+/hr, 20-40k/yr. Side Gig
« Reply #93 on: July 24, 2016, 02:04:49 PM »
ARS, Do you think you will be able to or have you talked to people who have told you that you can consistently sell all your available slots on your cards? Like for example my GF and I added together have 3 different citi cards... does that mean consistent have 15 tradeline sales every 2 months?

Citi is done on a monthly rotation. So it would be 15 a month

I guess what I'm asking is if these companies consistently fill up all the slots for the investors because 200/month * 15 tradelines * 12 months in a year is just a stupid amount of money per year.
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boarder42

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Re: Selling Tradelines / Piggybacking: $600+/hr, 20-40k/yr. Side Gig
« Reply #94 on: July 24, 2016, 02:07:39 PM »
ARS, Do you think you will be able to or have you talked to people who have told you that you can consistently sell all your available slots on your cards? Like for example my GF and I added together have 3 different citi cards... does that mean consistent have 15 tradeline sales every 2 months?

Citi is done on a monthly rotation. So it would be 15 a month

I guess what I'm asking is if these companies consistently fill up all the slots for the investors because 200/month * 15 tradelines * 12 months in a year is just a stupid amount of money per year.

It's around 150 unless all your limits are over 30k. But yes this is an absurd amount of money see ars OP where he expects to make 20-40k annually. I don't have any 5 spot cards til this winter but it my understanding they have the demand
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CmFtns

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Re: Selling Tradelines / Piggybacking: $600+/hr, 20-40k/yr. Side Gig
« Reply #95 on: July 24, 2016, 02:14:32 PM »
ARS, Do you think you will be able to or have you talked to people who have told you that you can consistently sell all your available slots on your cards? Like for example my GF and I added together have 3 different citi cards... does that mean consistent have 15 tradeline sales every 2 months?

Citi is done on a monthly rotation. So it would be 15 a month

I guess what I'm asking is if these companies consistently fill up all the slots for the investors because 200/month * 15 tradelines * 12 months in a year is just a stupid amount of money per year.

It's around 150 unless all your limits are over 30k. But yes this is an absurd amount of money see ars OP where he expects to make 20-40k annually. I don't have any 5 spot cards til this winter but it my understanding they have the demand

Yea I've read most of this thread but didn't remember him addressing if they actually had the demand to fill all our slots yet... I think my GF and I are going to try this out... We happen to have 2 citi cards "maturing" to 2 years old here in a few months and she has a different citi card that is very old so think we're gonna try it out on that old one and if everything goes well we could have 3 citi cards in the mix and I will be beyond thrilled...

I'm waiting for the big "GOTCHA man you should have seen your face this isn't actually real" because it really seems too good to be true
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boarder42

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Re: Selling Tradelines / Piggybacking: $600+/hr, 20-40k/yr. Side Gig
« Reply #96 on: July 24, 2016, 02:41:35 PM »
It's ridiculous. I don't know how long it will last but I'll milk it til it's gone
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Re: Selling Tradelines / Piggybacking: $600+/hr, 20-40k/yr. Side Gig
« Reply #97 on: July 24, 2016, 02:45:09 PM »
Regarding selling out all the lines or not, from the OP:
Some months are slower (less people using credit, it's cyclical) so you might not make as much, some months you'll fill up everything.

There are months where people are buying a ton of cars, etc. and you'll sell them out.  There are other months where you may not.

The bigger indicator for the sale: how big your credit line is, and how old the card is.

Obviously a 10 year old card with 30,000 credit line helps someone's score way more than a two years old card with a 10,000 line.  So people are more likely to buy it.  You get paid more for having a larger credit line, age doesn't change your payment amount, but it does make it more likely to sell out.

I've definitely sold more lines on my older cards, but I have sold lines on a card I enrolled in June that just turned 2 years old in June.  So you can get sales on newer (2-5 yr) cards, for sure, but IDK if you'll sell them out consistently.

But yes, as I said, the numbers get silly quickly.  In your case, if you did sell out 3 cards that had 5 slots every other month, and were in the 10k-20k range ($225 commission), you'd get paid $3,375 every two months, or  $20,250/yr.  Total work = 2 min to add them online per trade line (15 trade lines = 30 min every other month), 2 minutes per card to make sure there's a spend on it (take each to grocery store, or load up Amazon gift balance, or whatever, say 5 cards x 2 min = 10 min/ mo = 20 every other mo), then call once/mo to remove = 5-10 min depending on how long you're on hold = 10-20 min every other month... total = 1 hour to 1 hour 10 min every other month = 6-7 hours/yr.  For 20k.

Now, realistically, maybe you make half that (10k?).  Maybe more, if one of the cards is older.  And selling every other month means they certainly can fill up all 5 spots over the course of that time.  Maybe 3-4/5 is a realistic number, I'm not sure, so probably more than half.

Like you said, almost too good to be true, and that's why I'm not counting it in my ER budget projections.  I'll go with it while I can, and be happy about it, but not count on it in perpetuity.  :)
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Re: Selling Tradelines / Piggybacking: $600+/hr, 20-40k/yr. Side Gig
« Reply #98 on: July 24, 2016, 03:24:39 PM »
If I jumped on this crazy train,  does anyone know if adding these AUs would have a negative impact on our potential mortgage loan? I have stopped opening new cards until we are done with the home buying  process, but if this doesn't hurt the way a hard pull would, then maybe i can try it out

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Re: Selling Tradelines / Piggybacking: $600+/hr, 20-40k/yr. Side Gig
« Reply #99 on: July 24, 2016, 03:27:10 PM »
If I jumped on this crazy train,  does anyone know if adding these AUs would have a negative impact on our potential mortgage loan? I have stopped opening new cards until we are done with the home buying  process, but if this doesn't hurt the way a hard pull would, then maybe i can try it out

There is literally zero impact to your credit score, adding or removing an AU.  There are no credit pulls done.

Only, like I mentioned, if a card is closed, it can impact your score (by having less available credit, so raising your DTI by default).  It won't change your DTI for the mortgage calculations though, obviously.  And any card closure wouldn't happen soon, if at all. 

Like with other caveats, if it makes you uncomfortable, don't do it, but I don't see a reason why starting this should affect buying a house (or the interest rate you get, or anything) in any way.
We are two former teachers who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, and now travel the world full time with a kid.
If you want to know more about me, or how we did that, or see lots of pictures, this Business Insider profile tells our story pretty well.
We (occasionally) blog at AdventuringAlong.com.
You can also read my forum "Journal."