Author Topic: Selling Tradelines / Piggybacking: $1000+/hr, 20-40k/yr. Side Gig  (Read 119090 times)

arebelspy

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Re: Selling Tradelines / Piggybacking: $600+/hr, 20-40k/yr. Side Gig
« Reply #200 on: August 02, 2016, 05:27:09 PM »
How much and how often do i need to spend on my credit cards to be eligible for selling tradelines? For example, if i charge one dollar on each, will this make them eligible?

Good question!

How Much:
There's no "amount" you have to spend, per se.

The key thing is, you want the CC company to report the line to the credit bureaus.  If the balance is $0, there's a risk they won't report it. So you want some balance.

From what I understand, some CC companies often "forgive" low balances because it's cheaper for them to do that then send you a bill (seriously.. I think if you owe like 50 cents, some CC companies just change it to zero at the end of your cycle).

What I've been doing is just putting various bills around on the different cards (electric on one, water on another, etc.--though I have a lot more random bills like this, and actually no personal ones, due to rental properties).

I also have, if I don't have a bill ready to use, but sold trade lines on a bunch of different cards, will just load up my Amazon gift card balance with $5.  I have this link bookmarked for that purpose.   I'd probably say doing a dollar or two is safe, but I've just done $5 to be sure.. no point risking several hundred dollars to not load $5 (especially because it's not even "spending," since it's just transferring money to me, anyways, to spend later on Amazon).

I do this because it's all digital--since I'm homeless, I don't even have copies of the cards with me.  If you live in a normal place, having all your CCs in a drawer and just sticking the one you need to spend on in your wallet and using it the next time you're at the grocery store is quite easy, too.

How Often:
Just the once/month, to have a balance when it closes.  Make sure you don't pay off the balance before the statement closes, but have it close with a balance.  You should, of course, pay it off before the due date so you don't pay interest, but don't accidentally send a payment before the statement even closes.
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johnny847

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Re: Selling Tradelines / Piggybacking: $600+/hr, 20-40k/yr. Side Gig
« Reply #201 on: August 02, 2016, 06:41:39 PM »
From what I understand, some CC companies often "forgive" low balances because it's cheaper for them to do that then send you a bill (seriously.. I think if you owe like 50 cents, some CC companies just change it to zero at the end of your cycle).

Yes, some do. Most of the thresholds are 99 cents or a dollar, but Discover forgives $2 and Comenity bank and Wells Fargo forgive $1.99. I usually game this, paying down my balance on cards that forgive balances to the forgiveness threshold right before the statement closes.

http://www.doctorofcredit.com/small-balance-waiver-a-k-a-lots-of-free-99-cent-amazon-gcs/

Really hard to scale but it's easy enough to do. And I don't stress over it - if I need to buy something with the card right around the statement closing date, I just buy it. Or if I need the float for the month, I don't pay it down before the statement closes.

I actually setup an Amazon allowance (automated purchase of Amazon gc) of $1/month on my capital one journey card. Sadly you can't set Amazon allowances for less than $5 now, but as long as I don't touch the settings of my current ones it keeps going just fine.

arebelspy

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Re: Selling Tradelines / Piggybacking: $600+/hr, 20-40k/yr. Side Gig
« Reply #202 on: August 02, 2016, 07:05:35 PM »
Yes, some do. Most of the thresholds are 99 cents or a dollar, but Discover forgives $2 and Comenity bank and Wells Fargo forgive $1.99.

Nice, good to have some numbers around that.  Thanks for the info!  :)
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kudy

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Re: Selling Tradelines / Piggybacking: $600+/hr, 20-40k/yr. Side Gig
« Reply #203 on: August 02, 2016, 09:15:48 PM »
Thanks for the reminder that some cards forgive low balances! I was putting $1 on my Discover today, but now I know I probably need 3.

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Re: Selling Tradelines / Piggybacking: $600+/hr, 20-40k/yr. Side Gig
« Reply #204 on: August 02, 2016, 09:55:07 PM »
Ya, admitting cheap/guilty pleasure: I have a whole bunch of cards that I know forgive low single balances, and that I don't use. I have a habit of buying a free avacado or two a month with them.

After a long while one of my Capital One cards went into dormancy after I did nothing but getting free food for about a year.
I had to revive it because it's an old card and I want to sell the tradeline
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Shor

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Re: Selling Tradelines / Piggybacking: $600+/hr, 20-40k/yr. Side Gig
« Reply #205 on: August 02, 2016, 11:17:39 PM »
Ya, admitting cheap/guilty pleasure: I have a whole bunch of cards that I know forgive low single balances, and that I don't use. I have a habit of buying a free avacado or two a month with them.

After a long while one of my Capital One cards went into dormancy after I did nothing but getting free food for about a year.
Haha wow, learned something new today. Always figured that a CC company would chase their balance down to the end, whatever the cost!


For those trying to revive an old CC: today I tried to revive an old Citi card that had been closed a good 10 years ago. This was long before everything had gone digital so it wasn't attached to my account, and the rep couldn't even see it listed under me (considering I probably had to give my SSN, that's actually a little odd that they can't see it).

Apparently it is possible if it's been closed only recently in the last few months for non-bad reasons, but the only thing I can do now is reapply for it.. .except I don't even know what the CC product is, only that I got (and still have) a free t-shirt from signing up. If only I knew..

So sadly, I've given up trying to revive that monster..
« Last Edit: August 02, 2016, 11:25:33 PM by Shor »

arebelspy

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Re: Selling Tradelines / Piggybacking: $600+/hr, 20-40k/yr. Side Gig
« Reply #206 on: August 03, 2016, 03:46:54 AM »
I did just get an email (as did the wife) with a breakdown of my commission for June, paystub, and it says it takes a few days and should be in my bank account Aug 2-4.  I'll report back in a few days with details of exact amount, # of sales, etc. 

As promised...

First Payment

Like I said earlier in the thread, I signed up in early June (after learning about this from another Mustachian at Camp Mustache III, who has been doing it for a year to a year and a half or so), and got my first trade line orders in mid-June.

There is a one month lag on payment for the company I use (as they verify on the AU's credit report that the trade line posted, and fully refund them if it didn't).  The downside with that is, it may mean you don't get paid if something doesn't post right, which I'd soon learn personally (uh, oh, foreshadowing).  :D

Here's the tradelines we sold between my wife and I:
1) Bank of America x 3 ($225 each) Did not post, so no payment (more on this below)
2) Chase x2 ($262.50 & $350)
3) Discover x5 ($150 each)

We also received a signup bonus of $75 each (a promotion they were doing for awhile--one of them wasn't included, and was paid separately a day later--it's still pending, but I decided to go ahead and write this up, as the main payments posted).

In total, we were paid $1,512.50 for our first month of trade line sales, which you can see in the following screen shot (must be logged in to the forums to see it).



The good:
  • This averages to over $18k/yr. (near the 20k range in title), and it wasn't even a full month of sales.
  • We got paid! This covers about half of our ER budget.  For maybe two hours of work to set it up, and an hour or two of work to add the 10 tradelines, do the spend, and remove them.  When you remove the one-time setup time, going forward the hourly rate is in the $600-$1000/hr range in title.
  • We could have had more sales on the Discover cards, but they were capped. They've since been raised to 5 each, so we should make more there.
  • We could have had more sales on the Chase cards, but we capped them down to 0 (more on this below).
  • We could have made more money on the Bank of America cards, but they didn't post, so we didn't get paid (more on this below). We'd have been at almost $2200 payment, over $26k annualized, had these posted.
  • We could have made more money, as we have a few other cards (Barclays, Citi) that didn't have any tradeline sales in June (but have subsequently, in July).

The not-as-good:
  • Bank of America.  We were informed in July, a few weeks after adding the AUs, that it didn't report properly to the AU's credit statement.  We were provided copies of their credit report as proof.  For some reason, Bank of America only posted to one of the three credit bureaus.  Thus, the tradeline company refunded the clients.  They offer a 100% money back guarantee.  So even though we did what we were supposed to, we didn't get paid.  That cost us a potential $675.  I still wouldn't have it any other way (e.g. the client SHOULDN'T pay and then get nothing--I fully support the 100% money back guarantee for them, because if it doesn't work, I'm out 10 minutes of time, but they're out lots of money--better me to lose a bit of time for nothing than them to lose a lot of money for nothing).  It's just a bummer to have this happen our first month.  It does happen though, and I can't complain about getting paid $1,500 for such little work.
  • Chase.  For purposes of full disclosure: I decided to reduce our Chase to 0 tradelines, for now.  Because of the extra risk of Chase shutting you down, I'm thinking about how to proceed with them.  Maybe I'll go for it, maybe I'll just do 1 or 2 trade line sales, I'm not sure.  The company does cap it to 2 sales per 3 months, so it's unlikely you'll get shut down, but still, that would suck (because Chase will shut down other accounts with them, not just the one--other companies have just shut down the one account, historically).  It is a lot of money to give up--$350 on one card, $262.50 on the other, almost $5,000/yr.  So I'll probably open this back up, but still thinking about what I want to do with Chase.

Conclusion
All in all, couldn't be much happier with the first month.  The B of A hiccup was unfortunate, but I can't complain.  We're on track to cover over half our ER budget, and I could see, if B of A posts properly, I max out the Discover (now at 5 tradelines), the other Barclay/Citi cards get some sales, and I open Chase back up, we could easily be making $40k/yr., more than covering our whole ER budget.  And the amount of time?  Forget the famous four hour work week, it's more like four hour work month.
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boarder42

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Re: Selling Tradelines / Piggybacking: $600+/hr, 20-40k/yr. Side Gig
« Reply #207 on: August 03, 2016, 05:45:51 AM »
awesome write up i wish i had more cards to put into the system than i do.  though many turn 2 this winter.  hope my bofa cards post b/c thats the only AUs i got this month.
PM me about how to save 6% on your annual grocery Bill!

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hoping2retire35

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Re: Selling Tradelines / Piggybacking: $600+/hr, 20-40k/yr. Side Gig
« Reply #208 on: August 03, 2016, 05:57:31 AM »
bah! I am trying to be cautious and hesitate but this is making it hard!

MrSal

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Re: Selling Tradelines / Piggybacking: $600+/hr, 20-40k/yr. Side Gig
« Reply #209 on: August 03, 2016, 12:26:55 PM »
hmm will read into this later tonight... just made a quick inventory and between my wife and I only 1 is eligible probably ... 1 CC with 7 years and 19k line.

We do have another card with 24k and another with 17k however, they've been open for about a year. Will try to call other cards to have the limits bumped hopefully.

TomTX

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Re: Selling Tradelines / Piggybacking: $600+/hr, 20-40k/yr. Side Gig
« Reply #210 on: August 03, 2016, 01:41:32 PM »
Bah, I filled out all the e-paperwork over the weekend and got submittal auto-confirm. No response yet, and I'm still not approved.


[Edit: Removed company name, per earlier discussion. PM me with questions/concerns. Cheers!]
« Last Edit: August 03, 2016, 02:43:00 PM by arebelspy »
Credit card signup bonuses:

$150 bonus on $500 spend for Chase Freedom:
https://www.referyourchasecard.com/2/MU4TDQ1N3K

$50 bonus (no min spend, just use it once) plus double all cash back at the end of 1 year for Discover, including the initial $50:
https://refer.discover.com/s/37e3u

$500 bonus on $4,000 spend for Chase Sapphire Preferred:
https://www.referyourchasecard.com/6/Z8JIP66H7G

kudy

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Re: Selling Tradelines / Piggybacking: $600+/hr, 20-40k/yr. Side Gig
« Reply #211 on: August 03, 2016, 01:51:38 PM »
I did just get an email (as did the wife) with a breakdown of my commission for June, paystub, and it says it takes a few days and should be in my bank account Aug 2-4.  I'll report back in a few days with details of exact amount, # of sales, etc. 

As promised...

First Payment

Very nice first month! All of my cards are on their old 1 month cycle. For June & July I earned a piddly $200 (2 x $100) in each month (slow season?). The direct deposit I just received was June's payment of $200. Assuming everything posts without trouble, August is likely to be much better with $500 earned so far (2 x $150 & 2 x $100), and a lot of potential with additional slots on other cards throughout the month.

ARS, at what point did you request that they increase the number of "spots" on your cards? It wasn't clear to me how long I needed to keep them at 2. I think I'll ask for all of my add-online cards to 4, and possibly keep all of my call-in cards at 2?

arebelspy

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Re: Selling Tradelines / Piggybacking: $600+/hr, 20-40k/yr. Side Gig
« Reply #212 on: August 03, 2016, 02:42:06 PM »
Bah, I filled out all the e-paperwork over the weekend and got submittal auto-confirm. No response yet, and I'm still not approved.

Weird.  I thought their response times are running around 48 hours or so.  Let us know when you do hear!  I'd bet it'll be soon.

Very nice first month! All of my cards are on their old 1 month cycle. For June & July I earned a piddly $200 (2 x $100) in each month (slow season?). The direct deposit I just received was June's payment of $200. Assuming everything posts without trouble, August is likely to be much better with $500 earned so far (2 x $150 & 2 x $100), and a lot of potential with additional slots on other cards throughout the month.

I thought about asking to go onto the new pay schedule, but it's tough to decide between $150 every month, and $225 every other month.  Your $100 cards wouldn't be eligible yet, until you raise the limits, but that's something to think about.  Might make almost as much, and lower the risk getting them shut down.

Quote
ARS, at what point did you request that they increase the number of "spots" on your cards? It wasn't clear to me how long I needed to keep them at 2. I think I'll ask for all of my add-online cards to 4, and possibly keep all of my call-in cards at 2?

About a week ago.  Per the FAQ, they will increase your number of tradelines after your first one posts. 
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TomTX

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Re: Selling Tradelines / Piggybacking: $600+/hr, 20-40k/yr. Side Gig
« Reply #213 on: August 03, 2016, 04:16:04 PM »
Bah, I filled out all the e-paperwork over the weekend and got submittal auto-confirm. No response yet, and I'm still not approved.

Weird.  I thought their response times are running around 48 hours or so.  Let us know when you do hear!  I'd bet it'll be soon.


I sent them a polite email that I had completed the paperwork, and followed up giving them more information on a card from a bank not on their list (19+ years old, so juicy!)
Credit card signup bonuses:

$150 bonus on $500 spend for Chase Freedom:
https://www.referyourchasecard.com/2/MU4TDQ1N3K

$50 bonus (no min spend, just use it once) plus double all cash back at the end of 1 year for Discover, including the initial $50:
https://refer.discover.com/s/37e3u

$500 bonus on $4,000 spend for Chase Sapphire Preferred:
https://www.referyourchasecard.com/6/Z8JIP66H7G

arebelspy

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Re: Selling Tradelines / Piggybacking: $600+/hr, 20-40k/yr. Side Gig
« Reply #214 on: August 03, 2016, 04:30:39 PM »
a card from a bank not on their list (19+ years old, so juicy!)

Nice!  I have some data to post on that (negotiating older/larger lines), off to shower and eat right now, but I will post today.  :)
We are two former teachers who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, and now travel the world full time with a kid.
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PAO

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Re: Selling Tradelines / Piggybacking: $600+/hr, 20-40k/yr. Side Gig
« Reply #215 on: August 03, 2016, 04:34:49 PM »
I get that this is legal and it only violates the boilerplate CC user agreement (for some reason this reminds me a bit of the Simpson's episode where the cable guy hands Homer a brochure titled "So you've decided to steal cable" to ease his mind).  But it's a zero sum game - there are going to be winners and losers. 

For example, supposing someone is taking out a Lending Club loan and gets a B rating rather than an F rating thanks to this AU scheme.  The losers in that case would be the investors in that loan or the basket of similarly scored loans.  It's easy to imagine that people on this forum would fall into that loser category. 

Another example would be investors in automobile or other finance companies (likely most of us readers are by virtue of investing in the total stock market).   

Granted, the losses would likely be distributed (or socialized) across such a high volume of losers per winner that the hit for each loser would be quite small - and I'm assuming that folks with a 750 credit score thanks to being an AU have a higher default rate than folks with a 750 score on their own merits. 

Maybe I have a naive affinity to the Golden Rule but to me this seems like a pretty black and white decision to not participate in this kind of arrangement.  Am I missing something here?   

arebelspy

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Re: Selling Tradelines / Piggybacking: $600+/hr, 20-40k/yr. Side Gig
« Reply #216 on: August 03, 2016, 05:21:27 PM »
Am I missing something here?

Not if you think all credit scores are earned "fairly" and are 100% indicative of future willingness to pay.  If that's the case, yes, it's probably a zero-sum game.

I think it's possible neither of these are the case.

As far as indicator to pay, I think it's completely possible that the people intelligent enough to realize their credit score is bad, that it's affecting them, and find a tool like this to utilize short-term are more likely to turn around their credit than the average person that has bad credit.  E.g. it's more likely that they got bad credit before realizing the importance of good credit, and are working to turn that around, and are more likely in the future to pay debts to get their credit good than the average person with the same initial credit score as them.

As far as fairness of credit scores, MANY people with bad credit are affected by medical bills.  Like, this survey from January of this year showed that:

"Among people with health insurance, one in five (20%) working-age Americans report having problems paying medical bills in the past year that often cause serious financial challenges and changes in employment and lifestyle, finds a comprehensive new Kaiser Family Foundation/New York Times survey. As expected, the situation is even worse among people who are uninsured: half (53%) face problems with medical bills, bringing the overall total to 26 percent."

26 percent of people had trouble with medical bills in the last YEAR.  And obviously some people will have older medical debt.  So yeah, I'd imagine a good chunk of the people using a service like this are affected by something like that.  It's terrible.

Someone like that, who has been hit by a medical situation, and due to the * health insurance system our country has, now is getting hurt AGAIN by that hitting their credit, costing them more in interest, etc.

Someone like that I think may be more likely to pay their bills than someone else with that same credit score who got it by not paying a bunch of random (utility, CC, etc.) bills.  So I don't know that it's "fair" in either sense of the term for them to have that credit score--it may not be fair as in it may not be accurate, and it may not be fair in the golden rule style of kicking someone when they're down.

Now, obviously, you don't know why the person is boosting their credit.  But with the large prevalence of medical debt, I think it's likely that many people with bad credit scores are in this situation and may seek out this tool.  It might be more right, in a golden rule sense, to help them out.

So, in short, I think your concern of a zero-sum game and the golden rule is totally valid.  I just don't know that it is the case that it's a zero sum game, and even if it is, I don't know that it's the case that it's still not moral (if you're going by the golden rule) to help them, and I think it may well not be the case with either of those two things.

Again, it's like I've mentioned before in this thread: it's something each person will have to think about, and decide on their own what they believe, where their line lines, and act accordingly.

Thanks for bringing up the concern, it's definitely a good one, and definitely one everyone considering this should think about!  :)
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johnny847

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Re: Selling Tradelines / Piggybacking: $600+/hr, 20-40k/yr. Side Gig
« Reply #217 on: August 03, 2016, 05:28:42 PM »
Not to mention our credit reports and hence scores don't even take into account whether you carry a balance on your cards or not, which I would assume should be a great indicator of willingness to pay.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2016, 05:43:34 PM by johnny847 »

arebelspy

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Re: Selling Tradelines / Piggybacking: $600+/hr, 20-40k/yr. Side Gig
« Reply #218 on: August 03, 2016, 05:38:05 PM »
Not to mention our credit reports and hence scores don't even take into account whether you carry a balance on your cards or not to which I would assume should be a great indicator of willingness to pay.

Yeah, it's weird that's not a factor.  I think credit scores are somewhat efficient, but without much competition to FICO, it's not 100% so.
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Shor

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Re: Selling Tradelines / Piggybacking: $600+/hr, 20-40k/yr. Side Gig
« Reply #219 on: August 03, 2016, 05:49:14 PM »
Not to mention our credit reports and hence scores don't even take into account whether you carry a balance on your cards or not to which I would assume should be a great indicator of willingness to pay.
It does through the credit utilization portion (used / available credit), but that can also vary depending on when the CC company reports to the bureau, and also which bureau that impacts the final result. debt that is carried over in months would get in the report, one that is paid off  every time might or might not get included in the total credit used. A high credit utilization I think around 50% can greatly negative impact the score. You probably never realized because you're probably at like 1-2% every month! :P

As a system, one that is frequently relied upon as one of the sole factors in accepting or denying other services, I find the entire structure is way to loose and shaky.
There are 3 bureaus, a CC company does not have to report to all of them nor does it have to occur on a fixed schedule. The credit score should really be exactly what people imagine it to be: an actual snapshot of your financial situation, not this piecemeal subset of generally your possible financial shape. Way too much grey area involved for a system we depend heavily on to determine a person's fiscal responsibility, in my opinion.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2016, 05:51:03 PM by Shor »

PAO

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Re: Selling Tradelines / Piggybacking: $600+/hr, 20-40k/yr. Side Gig
« Reply #220 on: August 03, 2016, 05:51:28 PM »
Thanks for the thoughtful reply ARS.  My first thought as I read through it was imagining a person saying, "well, I can't afford to pay for my ACL surgery but I'm gearing up to buy a new SUV on credit so better bolster my credit rating."  I'm sure there are other more sympathetic scenarios but I'm still not swayed.  I have a modest LC account and I'd prefer that the loans I'm funding were not upgraded through the AU approach.  Credit scoring may be imperfect but it's one of only a few parameters available to score an applicant. 

As far as the golden rule on helping people out with medical debt - I think John Oliver wins in that category: 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uBeZaVM2VU 

arebelspy

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Re: Selling Tradelines / Piggybacking: $600+/hr, 20-40k/yr. Side Gig
« Reply #221 on: August 03, 2016, 06:01:06 PM »
My first thought as I read through it was imagining a person saying, "well, I can't afford to pay for my ACL surgery but I'm gearing up to buy a new SUV on credit so better bolster my credit rating."

Yeah, there's probably some of that.  I guess I'm a little more sympathetic, as I've seen some tough situations.  If someone needs a car to get to work to get back to paying that medical debt, kicking them when they're down (charging them more interest) is sorta rough.  I don't automatically assume it'll be a brand new SUV or anything.  IDK, I guess I'm just giving them the benefit of the doubt where I can. And it's not like this totally solves that (they have to pay a large amount, IMO, for the boost), but it may help somewhat. 

Quote
As far as the golden rule on helping people out with medical debt - I think John Oliver wins in that category: 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uBeZaVM2VU

100% agree.  :)

I'd just love if our healthcare system is fixed in general.  Medical debt is just a symptom, but it's a pretty terrible one.
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Re: Selling Tradelines / Piggybacking: $600+/hr, 20-40k/yr. Side Gig
« Reply #222 on: August 03, 2016, 06:32:43 PM »
Not to mention our credit reports and hence scores don't even take into account whether you carry a balance on your cards or not to which I would assume should be a great indicator of willingness to pay.
It does through the credit utilization portion (used / available credit), but that can also vary depending on when the CC company reports to the bureau, and also which bureau that impacts the final result. debt that is carried over in months would get in the report, one that is paid off  every time might or might not get included in the total credit used. A high credit utilization I think around 50% can greatly negative impact the score. You probably never realized because you're probably at like 1-2% every month! :P

No, it doesn't. Utilization is in no way equivalent to whether you carry a balance or not.

I could charge $3k to a card with a $10k limit and have the statement close. Next month, I could pay it all off by the due date and charge another $3k to the card.  Each month the statement closing balance is reported, so I'd have a credit utilization of 30% both months.

A different person could charge $3k to a card with a $10k limit and have the statement close. Next month they only make a minimum payment of $25 and don't charge anythign else to the card. They'd also have a credit utilizaiton of 30% both months.

Both usage patterns would have the exact same effect on our credit scores but I have a much higher willingness to pay than the other perosn.

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Re: Selling Tradelines / Piggybacking: $600+/hr, 20-40k/yr. Side Gig
« Reply #223 on: August 04, 2016, 11:39:52 AM »
Not to mention our credit reports and hence scores don't even take into account whether you carry a balance on your cards or not to which I would assume should be a great indicator of willingness to pay.
It does through the credit utilization portion (used / available credit), but that can also vary depending on when the CC company reports to the bureau, and also which bureau that impacts the final result. debt that is carried over in months would get in the report, one that is paid off  every time might or might not get included in the total credit used. A high credit utilization I think around 50% can greatly negative impact the score. You probably never realized because you're probably at like 1-2% every month! :P

No, it doesn't. Utilization is in no way equivalent to whether you carry a balance or not.

I could charge $3k to a card with a $10k limit and have the statement close. Next month, I could pay it all off by the due date and charge another $3k to the card.  Each month the statement closing balance is reported, so I'd have a credit utilization of 30% both months.

A different person could charge $3k to a card with a $10k limit and have the statement close. Next month they only make a minimum payment of $25 and don't charge anythign else to the card. They'd also have a credit utilizaiton of 30% both months.

Both usage patterns would have the exact same effect on our credit scores but I have a much higher willingness to pay than the other perosn.
But are you continuing to charge 3k each and every month? Your overall utilization is still covering 30% of the credit limit you have available. Just because you pay it off and charge more, or if you carry it over from one month to the next, the net effect is the same of how much credit you have available vs how much you use at a time. They don't care whether you pay it off each time or simply let it accumulate and pay only minimums because the resulting picture is the same to them which is to capture "how well could you handle additional debt". In both situations, it's measuring your capacity to pay off the new debt + the 3k you currently owe, regardless of your history of being able to pay off X per month.

Actually I agree with you, our credit report should capture your willingness to pay, but the credit score doesn't quite capture that history. Rather it captures a person's inability / unwillingness to pay, and uses that as proof to approve or deny future debts.


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Re: Selling Tradelines / Piggybacking: $600+/hr, 20-40k/yr. Side Gig
« Reply #224 on: August 04, 2016, 12:01:50 PM »
Not to mention our credit reports and hence scores don't even take into account whether you carry a balance on your cards or not to which I would assume should be a great indicator of willingness to pay.
It does through the credit utilization portion (used / available credit), but that can also vary depending on when the CC company reports to the bureau, and also which bureau that impacts the final result. debt that is carried over in months would get in the report, one that is paid off  every time might or might not get included in the total credit used. A high credit utilization I think around 50% can greatly negative impact the score. You probably never realized because you're probably at like 1-2% every month! :P

No, it doesn't. Utilization is in no way equivalent to whether you carry a balance or not.

I could charge $3k to a card with a $10k limit and have the statement close. Next month, I could pay it all off by the due date and charge another $3k to the card.  Each month the statement closing balance is reported, so I'd have a credit utilization of 30% both months.

A different person could charge $3k to a card with a $10k limit and have the statement close. Next month they only make a minimum payment of $25 and don't charge anythign else to the card. They'd also have a credit utilizaiton of 30% both months.

Both usage patterns would have the exact same effect on our credit scores but I have a much higher willingness to pay than the other perosn.
But are you continuing to charge 3k each and every month? Your overall utilization is still covering 30% of the credit limit you have available. Just because you pay it off and charge more, or if you carry it over from one month to the next, the net effect is the same of how much credit you have available vs how much you use at a time. They don't care whether you pay it off each time or simply let it accumulate and pay only minimums because the resulting picture is the same to them which is to capture "how well could you handle additional debt". In both situations, it's measuring your capacity to pay off the new debt + the 3k you currently owe, regardless of your history of being able to pay off X per month.

Actually I agree with you, our credit report should capture your willingness to pay, but the credit score doesn't quite capture that history. Rather it captures a person's inability / unwillingness to pay, and uses that as proof to approve or deny future debts.

In this scenario, yes. I would be charging $3k a month and paying $3k a month. Yes I understand it's the same utilization.

But I'm saying that the fact that I'm not carrying a balance is not captured. I'm contending that my ability to pay off this $3k every single month (as in, not carrying a balance) is a far better indicator of willingness to pay future debt than the other person who's merely making minimum payments, even if we have the same credit utilization.
If we don't agree on this point, then we really don't have much more to discuss.

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Re: Selling Tradelines / Piggybacking: $600+/hr, 20-40k/yr. Side Gig
« Reply #225 on: August 04, 2016, 03:28:25 PM »
I agree whole-heartedly. That willingness to pay is not captured, and would be a Way better indicator to show in the credit report.

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Re: Selling Tradelines / Piggybacking: $600+/hr, 20-40k/yr. Side Gig
« Reply #226 on: August 04, 2016, 03:51:37 PM »
June July and August are the slow months just so everyone is aware
PM me about how to save 6% on your annual grocery Bill!

There is a 35k starwood bonus right now as well. PM me for the info.

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Re: Selling Tradelines / Piggybacking: $600+/hr, 20-40k/yr. Side Gig
« Reply #227 on: August 04, 2016, 03:54:39 PM »
Bah, I filled out all the e-paperwork over the weekend and got submittal auto-confirm. No response yet, and I'm still not approved.

Weird.  I thought their response times are running around 48 hours or so.  Let us know when you do hear!  I'd bet it'll be soon.


I sent them a polite email that I had completed the paperwork, and followed up giving them more information on a card from a bank not on their list (19+ years old, so juicy!)

Approval email came in at 1:53PM today followed by an email response to my inquiry yesterday.
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Re: Selling Tradelines / Piggybacking: $600+/hr, 20-40k/yr. Side Gig
« Reply #228 on: August 04, 2016, 08:50:12 PM »
Intriguing idea; I had never heard of this before. I got a referral from arebelspy and sent an email to the company he recommended.

Unfortunately I pared down my open accounts a few years ago, and closed the oldest ones with the highest credit limits because I wasn't using them. Now I only have one eligible account for certain, maybe two if I get a credit line increase, and they're both Chase cards. I also have a Lowe's store card; I asked the company if that can be used (authorized users have to be added by phone or mail, so that would be a bit more trouble.)

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Re: Selling Tradelines / Piggybacking: $600+/hr, 20-40k/yr. Side Gig
« Reply #229 on: August 05, 2016, 07:22:03 AM »
Intriguing idea; I had never heard of this before. I got a referral from arebelspy and sent an email to the company he recommended.

Unfortunately I pared down my open accounts a few years ago, and closed the oldest ones with the highest credit limits because I wasn't using them. Now I only have one eligible account for certain, maybe two if I get a credit line increase, and they're both Chase cards. I also have a Lowe's store card; I asked the company if that can be used (authorized users have to be added by phone or mail, so that would be a bit more trouble.)

You may be able to re-open the closed credit lines.

Give the banks a call. If the first person says no, thank them, hang up and call again to get someone else.
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Re: Selling Tradelines / Piggybacking: $600+/hr, 20-40k/yr. Side Gig
« Reply #230 on: August 05, 2016, 11:30:26 AM »
Posting to follow.

Really interesting idea and even if I register the one (maybe two, need to check) cards and only sell a single tradeline ever other month, it is still an extra grand or two per year.  Like ARS said, not bad for the small amount of work it takes once you are set up.

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Re: Selling Tradelines / Piggybacking: $600+/hr, 20-40k/yr. Side Gig
« Reply #231 on: August 05, 2016, 04:22:13 PM »
Bah, I filled out all the e-paperwork over the weekend and got submittal auto-confirm. No response yet, and I'm still not approved.

Weird.  I thought their response times are running around 48 hours or so.  Let us know when you do hear!  I'd bet it'll be soon.


I sent them a polite email that I had completed the paperwork, and followed up giving them more information on a card from a bank not on their list (19+ years old, so juicy!)

Approval email came in at 1:53PM today followed by an email response to my inquiry yesterday.

Good to know. Thanks for following up!  :)

Really interesting idea and even if I register the one (maybe two, need to check) cards and only sell a single tradeline ever other month, it is still an extra grand or two per year.  Like ARS said, not bad for the small amount of work it takes once you are set up.

Yeah, that's the thing, even if you don't go crazy and sign up a bunch of cards like the wife and I did, even a card or two is a nice little fun money income.

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arebelspy

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Re: Selling Tradelines / Piggybacking: $600+/hr, 20-40k/yr. Side Gig
« Reply #232 on: August 05, 2016, 04:23:01 PM »
Quote
Also, when I emailed them a question today, I got an automated email response saying that due to a "high volume of emails from investors" they would be slower than usual to respond.  Sounds like the word is spreading.

No! I hope it doesn't spread too much and increase the supply without an increase in the demand...

I think this is temporary, but yes, this is another "risk"--that it becomes very popular and your trade line sales decline--e.g. you don't sell as many as you would have otherwise.  On one hand, this sucks, because you don't make as much money.  On the other hand, less AU activity means less likely to get a card shut down, so maybe you can do it longer.  But there's no real "risk" per se, other than not getting to make money on this indefinitely.  It's one reason why I wouldn't count on this money for FIRE budget or anything.

Take it while you can, whether it gets shut down due to FICO rule changes, your card gets shut down, a lot of other trade line sellers jump on board, whatever... to me, if I can make tens of thousands for a year or two, I'll be happy.  That's the expectation/hope I'm setting for myself, and if it lasts longer, great!  If it doesn't, well, I'm good with trying to do what I can with it in the meantime.

...annndd here we are.  :)

The company asked me to pause referrals for a week or two, to try and avoid that saturation point, especially since we're in the slow season.

They aren't taking any new signups for the moment (unless you were previously referred).  Hope everyone interested got their paperwork signed and trade lines set up!  :)

If you're still interested, PM me and I can add you to a list, and in about a week and 1/2 (Aug 15) I'll hopefully be able to refer you!

Basically the main reason we're paused is this:
June July and August are the slow months just so everyone is aware

So if you have signed up, and don't see a ton of sales this month, don't get too discouraged.

I'll keep you all updated though.  :)
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TomTX

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Re: Selling Tradelines / Piggybacking: $600+/hr, 20-40k/yr. Side Gig
« Reply #233 on: August 05, 2016, 04:47:44 PM »
Tradeline is now set up. No confirmation email, but it shows on the website.

Oddly, the statement date listed on the website is about a week earlier than the date I gave them.
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Re: Selling Tradelines / Piggybacking: $600+/hr, 20-40k/yr. Side Gig
« Reply #234 on: August 05, 2016, 05:07:54 PM »
Oddly, the statement date listed on the website is about a week earlier than the date I gave them.

They usually set it 3 days earlier, so that all orders you get come in by then, and you have a few days to get everyone added.
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Re: Selling Tradelines / Piggybacking: $600+/hr, 20-40k/yr. Side Gig
« Reply #235 on: August 06, 2016, 01:43:31 PM »
areblspy - I'm thinking about doing an app-o-rama to get in on this crazy train as well.  I
currently just have one Chase Hyatt card with 22k limit.  Still have
 another year to get 2 year requirement.  Here are the cards I am thinking will work

Discover
Citibank
Capital One
Chase

Question is: Bank of America ?  Will they post to au history or have they closed this loophole ?

TIA

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Re: Selling Tradelines / Piggybacking: $600+/hr, 20-40k/yr. Side Gig
« Reply #236 on: August 06, 2016, 01:46:49 PM »
Bank of America is up in the air right now--they just started having issues posting to all 3 in June.

Who knows if this will still be around several years from now; I likely wouldn't open cards now just for that purpose (though if you're opening them for travel hacking or some other purpose, leaving them open--and even paying an annual fee to do so--may be reasonable, maybe not, depending).

That's, of course, up to you.  I can confirm all those cards work as of right now.

If you only have the one card, you should work on getting other cards though just to raise your credit score, IMO, over the next few years (and might as well get some signup bonuses along the way). So in your case I'd say you should open some cards anyways, and if it turns out that this is available in the future, great! But that shouldn't be the reason why you open them, IMO.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2016, 01:48:21 PM by arebelspy »
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johnny847

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Re: Selling Tradelines / Piggybacking: $600+/hr, 20-40k/yr. Side Gig
« Reply #237 on: August 06, 2016, 01:47:53 PM »
areblspy - I'm thinking about doing an app-o-rama to get in on this crazy train as well.  I
currently just have one Chase Hyatt card with 22k limit.  Still have
 another year to get 2 year requirement.  Here are the cards I am thinking will work

Discover
Citibank
Capital One
Chase

Question is: Bank of America ?  Will they post to au history or have they closed this loophole ?

TIA
I wouldn't apply for a bunch of cards just to get in on this 2 years from now. A lot could happen in two years including a change in policy on the banks, a change the credit reporting, etc.


Just apply for the cards you want without any consideration to whether you can easily sell trade lines on them. If 2 years later you can, great. If not, that's fine too.

TexasMu

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Re: Selling Tradelines / Piggybacking: $600+/hr, 20-40k/yr. Side Gig
« Reply #238 on: August 06, 2016, 08:47:44 PM »
I appreciate the feedback areblspy and johnny.  I'll keep following this thread and I'm sure I'll be back once I get closer to actually getting into the game.

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Re: Selling Tradelines / Piggybacking: $600+/hr, 20-40k/yr. Side Gig
« Reply #239 on: August 06, 2016, 09:35:16 PM »
You guys may end up in court with financial/wire fraud charges.  Some of the authorized users you are adding are false identities for criminal enterprises.  They use your good credit to buy tons of stuff and never pay it back.  This has already happened, and many people are sitting in prison right now for it.  Even if the authorized users are not criminals, you are still committing a crime by defrauding whatever institution is offering your authorized user(s) loans or lower interest rates.  These are federal offenses that will land you in jail and can prevent future employment. 

Here's an extreme example:  https://archives.fbi.gov/archives/newark/press-releases/2013/eighteen-people-charged-in-international-200-million-credit-card-fraud-scam
https://www.justice.gov/usao-nj/pr/leader-international-200-million-credit-card-fraud-scam-sentenced-80-months-prison
« Last Edit: August 06, 2016, 09:51:16 PM by Dexterous »

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Re: Selling Tradelines / Piggybacking: $600+/hr, 20-40k/yr. Side Gig
« Reply #240 on: August 07, 2016, 01:07:18 AM »
You guys may end up in court with financial/wire fraud charges ... This has already happened, and many people are sitting in prison right now for it.

Citation needed. 

Please provide one case where someone adding an AU went to court over it.

The links you provided were of 18 people indited who created 7,000 fake identities.  I'm assuming no one here is creating fake identities.

It sounds like they mostly used tradelines between the fraudulent IDs to boost the credit scores within their own network:
Quote
Some defendants created and sold fake lines of credit for false identities made up by other defendants. These fraudulent primary tradelines were then used to increase the credit limits on fraud cards, so that the defendants could reap even larger profits.

If they bought tradelines from other, real people, did any of those people get charged with anything?

That seems to me like a textbook case of fraud, yet only the people doing the actual fraudulent part (fake identities, fraudulent transactions, etc.) went to jail, as it should be.  Even in that egregious case, no one else (such as someone who may have sold one of their fake IDs a tradeline) was charged, were they?  Maybe they were, and I just don't know about it.

I mean, fraud definitely happens in the industry.  You want to avoid it, obviously.  The first step is avoiding the shady companies who don't care about fraud happening.  The company I use verifies people's identity before allowing them to purchase tradelines, for example.

Thanks for the heads up and example--it's definitely something someone looking into this should be aware of and watch out for.   But again, I'm not super concerned, because what I'm doing is legal.  Adding authorized users to a credit card is totally legal.  If someone else commits fraud, I have nothing to do with that; I have no knowledge or reason to suspect anyone of fraud, and if I did, I'd definitely decline to authorize them to be on one of my accounts.
We are two former teachers who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, and now travel the world full time with a kid.
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TomTX

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Re: Selling Tradelines / Piggybacking: $600+/hr, 20-40k/yr. Side Gig
« Reply #241 on: August 07, 2016, 06:32:52 AM »
The company arebelspy referred seems to take great pains to keep everything legit. The require a real bank for direct deposit for paying out for tradeline use. They verify ID on those wanting tradelines and require a real SSN.

They also charge a high enough price that it really doesn't make sense for a fraud ring to use them when there are much cheaper, lower hassle options for fraud.
Credit card signup bonuses:

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https://refer.discover.com/s/37e3u

$500 bonus on $4,000 spend for Chase Sapphire Preferred:
https://www.referyourchasecard.com/6/Z8JIP66H7G

trailcamaddict

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Re: Selling Tradelines / Piggybacking: $600+/hr, 20-40k/yr. Side Gig
« Reply #242 on: August 08, 2016, 09:22:50 AM »
Quote
Also, when I emailed them a question today, I got an automated email response saying that due to a "high volume of emails from investors" they would be slower than usual to respond.  Sounds like the word is spreading.

No! I hope it doesn't spread too much and increase the supply without an increase in the demand...

I think this is temporary, but yes, this is another "risk"--that it becomes very popular and your trade line sales decline--e.g. you don't sell as many as you would have otherwise.  On one hand, this sucks, because you don't make as much money.  On the other hand, less AU activity means less likely to get a card shut down, so maybe you can do it longer.  But there's no real "risk" per se, other than not getting to make money on this indefinitely.  It's one reason why I wouldn't count on this money for FIRE budget or anything.

Take it while you can, whether it gets shut down due to FICO rule changes, your card gets shut down, a lot of other trade line sellers jump on board, whatever... to me, if I can make tens of thousands for a year or two, I'll be happy.  That's the expectation/hope I'm setting for myself, and if it lasts longer, great!  If it doesn't, well, I'm good with trying to do what I can with it in the meantime.

...annndd here we are.  :)

The company asked me to pause referrals for a week or two, to try and avoid that saturation point, especially since we're in the slow season.

They aren't taking any new signups for the moment (unless you were previously referred).  Hope everyone interested got their paperwork signed and trade lines set up!  :)

If you're still interested, PM me and I can add you to a list, and in about a week and 1/2 (Aug 15) I'll hopefully be able to refer you!

Basically the main reason we're paused is this:
June July and August are the slow months just so everyone is aware

So if you have signed up, and don't see a ton of sales this month, don't get too discouraged.

I'll keep you all updated though.  :)

Based on this little set back I would be curious to know if any forum members have had good experiences with other brokers?  Surely there are other legit and honest companies in this space. 

boarder42

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Re: Selling Tradelines / Piggybacking: $600+/hr, 20-40k/yr. Side Gig
« Reply #243 on: August 08, 2016, 10:27:53 AM »
figured the day would come.  oh well at least they are looking out for both sides of the table right now.
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svtt

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Re: Selling Tradelines / Piggybacking: $600+/hr, 20-40k/yr. Side Gig
« Reply #244 on: August 08, 2016, 01:24:02 PM »

Will the AU be able to contact the credit card company and say that they lost the card and need the card number details to make an urgent purchase while a new card is on the way. Since they can supply their own name, snn and dob, will the customer service person just hand over the AU credit card details to the AU by phone?

arebelspy

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Re: Selling Tradelines / Piggybacking: $600+/hr, 20-40k/yr. Side Gig
« Reply #245 on: August 08, 2016, 01:34:27 PM »
Based on this little set back I would be curious to know if any forum members have had good experiences with other brokers?  Surely there are other legit and honest companies in this space.

I've been looking, believe me.  :)

I have very high standards though, that may be the problem (though I think it's mostly a good thing, for something like this).

Definitely let me know if you find any.

figured the day would come.  oh well at least they are looking out for both sides of the table right now.

Yeah, that's the good news.  :)

Definitely better to have a balance between buyers and sellers than a glut of one or the other.

Will the AU be able to contact the credit card company and say that they lost the card and need the card number details to make an urgent purchase while a new card is on the way. Since they can supply their own name, snn and dob, will the customer service person just hand over the AU credit card details to the AU by phone?

No.  First of all, they have none of your details, which are needed to access the account.  Second of all, you cannot get that info over the phone (even if you did have those details--go ahead and call and try to get that info over the phone on your account. They won't give it to you).  And, as covered earlier in the thread, there is no way for them to get a card on their own.

The company I use told me that after several years of doing this, they've had exactly zero fraudulent transactions/purchases by AUs on a card they were added to.
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svtt

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Re: Selling Tradelines / Piggybacking: $600+/hr, 20-40k/yr. Side Gig
« Reply #246 on: August 08, 2016, 01:47:19 PM »
Based on this little set back I would be curious to know if any forum members have had good experiences with other brokers?  Surely there are other legit and honest companies in this space.

I've been looking, believe me.  :)

I have very high standards though, that may be the problem (though I think it's mostly a good thing, for something like this).

Definitely let me know if you find any.

figured the day would come.  oh well at least they are looking out for both sides of the table right now.

Yeah, that's the good news.  :)

Definitely better to have a balance between buyers and sellers than a glut of one or the other.

Will the AU be able to contact the credit card company and say that they lost the card and need the card number details to make an urgent purchase while a new card is on the way. Since they can supply their own name, snn and dob, will the customer service person just hand over the AU credit card details to the AU by phone?

No.  First of all, they have none of your details, which are needed to access the account.  Second of all, you cannot get that info over the phone (even if you did have those details--go ahead and call and try to get that info over the phone on your account. They won't give it to you).  And, as covered earlier in the thread, there is no way for them to get a card on their own.

The company I use told me that after several years of doing this, they've had exactly zero fraudulent transactions/purchases by AUs on a card they were added to.


Thanks for the clarification.

Anomalous

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Re: Selling Tradelines / Piggybacking: $600+/hr, 20-40k/yr. Side Gig
« Reply #247 on: August 08, 2016, 02:42:36 PM »
The company asked me to pause referrals for a week or two, to try and avoid that saturation point, especially since we're in the slow season.

They aren't taking any new signups for the moment (unless you were previously referred).  Hope everyone interested got their paperwork signed and trade lines set up!  :)
I got a referral from you last week and sent them a message, but it's been 5 days (3 business days) with no reply now. So either they're even more backlogged than before, or they are just not responding to new people at all.

codemonkey

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Re: Selling Tradelines / Piggybacking: $600+/hr, 20-40k/yr. Side Gig
« Reply #248 on: August 08, 2016, 02:51:18 PM »
The company asked me to pause referrals for a week or two, to try and avoid that saturation point, especially since we're in the slow season.

They aren't taking any new signups for the moment (unless you were previously referred).  Hope everyone interested got their paperwork signed and trade lines set up!  :)
I got a referral from you last week and sent them a message, but it's been 5 days (3 business days) with no reply now. So either they're even more backlogged than before, or they are just not responding to new people at all.

I sent a request on August 2nd and received a reply on the third that they were behind on email and would respond to my request as soon as possible.  I didn't expect to ever hear back from them, but I received an email this morning with all the information I needed to sign up. 

missundecided

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Re: Selling Tradelines / Piggybacking: $600+/hr, 20-40k/yr. Side Gig
« Reply #249 on: August 08, 2016, 02:54:47 PM »
 
Quote
First of all, they have none of your details, which are needed to access the account.  Second of all, you cannot get that info over the phone (even if you did have those details--go ahead and call and try to get that info over the phone on your account. They won't give it to you).  And, as covered earlier in the thread, there is no way for them to get a card on their own.

Quick question related to this while I wait for them to respond to my email as well:

If it's possible for the sellers to receive the buyers' occasional mail, I'm guessing this means the seller's address shows up on the buyer's credit report as part of their history? Which they can access. What doesn't stop the buyer from doing a reverse address look up and finding my name, for example?

Also, do you have to provide the tradeline company with YOUR SSN too? I think this is the part that makes me the most nervous. Kind of feels like I'm SELLING them my identity, even though technically (?) I'm not.