Real Estate Returns

[arebelspy]

I know people are probably sick of me talking about real estate, but I just updated my returns spreadsheets, so I had to post this Share Your Badassity thread.

Now I'm sitting here scratching my head on why more Mustachians aren't using RE as a FIRE accelerate.  It's built right into the NAME.

Financially Independent from Real Estate (Patent Pending)

Anyways, back on topic, updated the spreadsheets.

IRR on rentals over the last six years (using 80% of current values as today's value at the end of the IRR calculation; that 20% reduction should account for selling costs and reduced price for quick sale): 23.42%* (that does have me managing, it would be about 2% lower if I had a PM the whole time - it would be a few percent higher if I did any work on the properties myself, but I hire out all the work).

IRR on rehabs over last 3 years: 38.02%

Note that none of the rehabs required me to do any work beyond analysing the deal; they were partnerships where I provided money and the other partner found the deal, managed the rehab, and sold it.

Overall IRR on real estate, combining rentals and rehabs: 25.43% (given most of my business is rentals, and less flips, that weighs heavier,so it's not a simple average).

And lest people argue that my returns are a product of leverage/risk, my estimated return this year on my rentals is about 16% (and that's after higher than average repairs and vacancies), and that's not counting appreciation at all (where the leverage really helps).  Plus my last four purchases were all cash, so my overall portfolio is only at about a 30% LTV (if you aren't familiar with the term, pretend I just bought all of them and put down a 70% down payment and only borrowed 30%).

So yes, leverage has boosted my returns into the 20%s, and helped with appreciation. But today, with that low of a LTV and paying cash, I'm still expecting to easily make double digit returns with very little work.

I mean, I guess you guys just hear about when things go wrong, and so many people get scared off of real estate.  But it rarely does, and when it does, you deal with it.  To cut your FIRE time in half (saving you YEARS of work) to put up with a small amount of rental work now?  Well worth it, to me.

*It's actually a bit higher, too, as I just have the cash flow put in as one lump sum at the end of the year for simplicities' sake, but I actually received the cash flows throughout the year, so that would up the IRR if I wanted to break each year apart.  For my purposes, it's good enough.

It took knowledge.  Spending time learning.  Which I very much enjoyed, as a hobby.  But man, using real estate (or some other business) is like throwing lighter fluid on your FIRE plans.

[WannabeFrugalRN]

We have rental properties also and yes they have been great to help get to FIRE! Wish we would have started earlier. How did you calculate your returns?

[arebelspy]

We have rental properties also and yes they have been great to help get to FIRE! Wish we would have started earlier. How did you calculate your returns?

XIRR function in Excel.  (Google it if you're unfamiliar, you can get a template spreadsheet easily.)

Put in dates of purchases and amounts, put in cash flow for the end of year dated 12-31 that takes into account net funds received that year (so vacancies, expenses, etc. are already counted).  Put in current value (as I said, I lopped off 20% from that) and today's date.

[WannabeFrugalRN]

Just did a rough estimate. (Will do your excel way when I figure it out😉) we have a couple multifamily properties. The 1st one we bought we owned for 2 yrs and had 250% return when we did a 1031 exchange (crazy California market!) and the second one has had 22% returns for the last 10 years! Wow, I knew it was good but never calculated it. That is not including tax benefits. Good timing also helped. Most of it is on paper since we don't plan to sell. It will be great for retirement!

[Dicey]

Awesome post, ARS. However, you know you're preaching to the choir in my case.

Before you file for that patent, I'd like to make a suggestion. As written, use of the word "from" implies that you're cashing out your RE chips, which I don't think is what you mean.

Financially Independent from Real Estate (Patent Pending)

How about substituting "via" or "through" for "from"? As in...

Financially Independent via Real Estate (PP), which is a little closer to the truth, I think.

Okay, now you can buzz the patent office.

[Overseas Stache]

Super awesome!

Why did you decide to make the last 6 purchases using cash? Do you plan on pulling the equity to re invest or are you just going to keep them fully paid off? It seems like now with the low rates you would want to take advantage of the leverage and increase your returns.

I'm just a newbie at this (2 rental properties), so I am asking just to learn, I'm not trying to say that you are doing it wrong.

[arebelspy]

Why did you decide to make the last 6 purchases using cash? Do you plan on pulling the equity to re invest or are you just going to keep them fully paid off? It seems like now with the low rates you would want to take advantage of the leverage and increase your returns.

The math didn't make sense to leverage based on the smaller amounts, rates, etc.  Each situation is different and is evaluated on its merits.

I likely will utilize leverage a bit more in the future for some other purchases I have planned. But only if it makes sense to do so.

Using leverage blindly just because you can isn't a good idea. (IIRC I touched on this briefly in the podcast.)

[Louisville]

What was your initial stake?  That is, there had to be a very first Real Estate Investment. Discounting profits from real estate deals (rentals, rehabs, flips, etc.), where did the money come from to start up this empire?

[lauren_knows]

I've always completely dismissed the idea of real estate as an investment, because I live in such a high COL area, and from what I see all of the "rules of thumb" are blown out of the water.  $400k properties renting for $2000/mo max.

I've never done the math in depth, but a back-of-the-napkin says that with 20% down ($80k), that's a $320k mortgage.

$320k @ 4% = $1527/mo
1% Prop Taxes = $333/mo
Maintenance?

Seems like that $2000/mo rent isn't enough.  Trying not to derail the thread, but am I wrong?

[HappyRock]

Nice investing :). I was wondering, do you have a post detailing your rental properties?

 Personally, I am convinced that long-term rentals are the best investment if you do it right.

I recommend everyone check out this great blog on long-term rentals : [MOD NOTE: Spam link removed.]

[HappyRock]

I've always completely dismissed the idea of real estate as an investment, because I live in such a high COL area, and from what I see all of the "rules of thumb" are blown out of the water.  $400k properties renting for $2000/mo max.

I've never done the math in depth, but a back-of-the-napkin says that with 20% down ($80k), that's a $320k mortgage.

$320k @ 4% = $1527/mo
1% Prop Taxes = $333/mo
Maintenance?

Seems like that $2000/mo rent isn't enough.  Trying not to derail the thread, but am I wrong?

The problem is in high COL areas it is much harder to find good deals. But that doesn't mean they don't exist. You aren't exactly wrong, your specific market and property are quite bad. But overall RE investing can be a great investment for many people in other markets.

Just wondering, what rule of thumb are you referring to?

[Kansas Beachbum]

Ok, I am going to try to derail the thread...well, maybe just a detour.

The Mrs. KBB and I are planning to move to FL in a couple years, central gulf coast, very nice, reasonably upscale area.  We have thought about buying a house there now and using as a rental for a couple of years.  We have never owned rental property before.  Is this a bad idea from so far away?  I know we would have to have a property manager of some kind, and have a repair/lawn service on call...all of which would eat into returns. 

Thoughts?  Advice?  Warnings?

[lauren_knows]

I've always completely dismissed the idea of real estate as an investment, because I live in such a high COL area, and from what I see all of the "rules of thumb" are blown out of the water.  $400k properties renting for $2000/mo max.

I've never done the math in depth, but a back-of-the-napkin says that with 20% down ($80k), that's a $320k mortgage.

$320k @ 4% = $1527/mo
1% Prop Taxes = $333/mo
Maintenance?

Seems like that $2000/mo rent isn't enough.  Trying not to derail the thread, but am I wrong?

The problem is in high COL areas it is much harder to find good deals. But that doesn't mean they don't exist. You aren't exactly wrong, your specific market and property are quite bad. But overall RE investing can be a great investment for many people in other markets.

Just wondering, what rule of thumb are you referring to?

I was referring to the 1% rule, that your rental property must rent (monthly) for 1% of the purchase price. So, $400k property would rent for $4k/mo.  As with most rules of thumb, it's not universal, but still.

[ketchup]

Congrats, arebelspy! Kicking ass and taking names.  I too would be interested in some more details about your properties.  I hope to also use real estate to springboard myself into faster FI.

[arebelspy]

What was your initial stake?  That is, there had to be a very first Real Estate Investment. Discounting profits from real estate deals (rentals, rehabs, flips, etc.), where did the money come from to start up this empire?

Saving money from our jobs (the wife and I are teachers, so while we don't make a lot, we make more than enough).  The initial investment was 20k-ish we had saved up over a few months.  Then continually plowed the rental income back in, flip profits, more of our savings, etc. to build it up.  The vast majority of it has just come from our teaching jobs though, and LBYM.  Your savings rate is much more important than the rate of return.

I've always completely dismissed the idea of real estate as an investment, because I live in such a high COL area, and from what I see all of the "rules of thumb" are blown out of the water.  $400k properties renting for $2000/mo max.
...
Seems like that $2000/mo rent isn't enough.  Trying not to derail the thread, but am I wrong?

Yeah, I would not buy that.  I also don't buy in Vegas anymore, as the prices rose too much.  I invest in areas where it makes sense to invest, not just where I live.  If where you live doesn't make sense to own rentals, find another way to invest in RE.

Nice investing :). I was wondering, do you have a post detailing your rental properties?

Hundreds of them.  ;)

I recommend everyone check out this great blog on long-term rentals : [MOD NOTE: Spam link removed.]

That author (you? based on your screen name?) is about as anti-Mustachian as one can get, so I tend to never recommend one read him, unfortunately.

Ok, I am going to try to derail the thread...well, maybe just a detour.

The Mrs. KBB and I are planning to move to FL in a couple years, central gulf coast, very nice, reasonably upscale area.  We have thought about buying a house there now and using as a rental for a couple of years.  We have never owned rental property before.  Is this a bad idea from so far away?  I know we would have to have a property manager of some kind, and have a repair/lawn service on call...all of which would eat into returns. 

Thoughts?  Advice?  Warnings?

Could be a terrible idea, could be a great idea.  Do your research.  Learning and knowing the local market is so, so key.

Congrats, arebelspy! Kicking ass and taking names.  I too would be interested in some more details about your properties.  I hope to also use real estate to springboard myself into faster FI.

Thanks ketchup!

[arebelspy]

Here is an example of great real estate investing, near 20%+ returns on all properties. If anyone is interested in this stuff. I do hope to see rebel's exact #'s though

[MOD NOTE: Spam link removed.]

MOD NOTE: That's the second time you've plugged that site on this thread, and given your screen name, I'm guessing you're the owner.  Please read the forum rules on spam.  And in the future, disclose when you're linking to your own material.  Thanks.

[KBecks2]

Hey Rebel,

I'm always intrigued by your posts abut real estate investing, yet I'm really lost on what exactly you are doing with it.   

I've read that you invest out of state, and that you take time to establish a team, and that you use leverage…

But beyond that I'm not really absorbing a lot of specifics, and I would love to know more about what you are doing.

What markets are you in?  (is that top secret?)
What is your buy criteria?
What are your property prices and rents like?

I will go back and read more of your past posts, but when I read a lot of them, It's clear that you say you are doing real estate and that real estate works and that you put a lot of time and energy into learning but when I try to figure out any specifics for a model that I might emulate, I'm coming up short. 

Thanks for any help.  :)    I think it is awesome that you started for around 20k and that is a number I could start with right now, but I am not exactly sure what to do with it.    I am in Milwaukee and I know a very successful investor here who is doing lower-cost properties and she's retired on it, save for doing her own property management.  I am not sure that I want to manage my own and I am not sure that i want the same locations.

[HappyRock]

Here is an example of great real estate investing, near 20%+ returns on all properties. If anyone is interested in this stuff. I do hope to see rebel's exact #'s though

[MOD NOTE: Spam link removed.]

MOD NOTE: That's the second time you've plugged that site on this thread, and given your screen name, I'm guessing you're the owner.  Please read the forum rules on spam.  And in the future, disclose when you're linking to your own material.  Thanks.

LOL. Okay, to be fair :

#1 When I was asking if you had others posts detailing your rental properties, I was hoping for a link. :P

#2 That blog directly relates to this thread, lists detailed SFH property numbers, and gives great information regarding RE investing.

#3 I am not the author of the blog, nor do I know the author in any personal way.

Also, the links I sent were two separate pages regarding RE and relates to this thread. Not exactly spam, but okay.

I find it very interesting how you automatically discount an entire RE blog because it is what you consider "anti-mustachian", especially considering you are involved in real estate. I for one love MMM's blog and the its ideas, I also consider myself "mustachian". But that sure as hell does NOT mean that I can not read or recommend a great RE investing blog because the author is "anti-mustachian".

Yes, the author has different ideas regarding spending... but why would you care? The blog is about RE INVESTING, NOT MONEY. The reason my name contains both blogs is because I enjoy reading them both. This is because I like learning about RE and MONEY equally. Two separate things.

On a side note, I am curious to see your definition of "Mustachianism". I wonder, do you equate it to complete minimalism?

For me, Mustachianism is the idea of not wasting money, spending less than you earn, being happy and nice to others, being logical, etc. But it definitely doesn't mean I can't own a nice house or car, especially if its a low percentage of my income. (I'm guessing this is why the author, Mark Ferguson is seen as anti-mustachian to you.. he owns a big house and expensive car. Regardless, it has nothing to do with the actual RE info.)

Anyway.. that's all. I didn't exactly mean to be spamming anything or get my posts flagged by moderators... I simply thought people interested in specific rental numbers would have liked it... oh well.

[arebelspy]

Sorry about that KBecks.  Sometimes it's hard to be specific because I'm doing so much, so I have to be more general (you'll see that in the answers below, which give a range), but nothing is top secret, I'm 100% open.

I specifically try not to answer the question of "what market should I invest in" because it really does depend on a person's goals, abilities/talents, etc.

It's like telling someone what AA they should have - it depends on them.

What markets are you in?

The above caveat aside, I'm fine willing to share where I'm invested in, but I do try to talk more in-depth with people when they want to find a market to help them figure out where they should invest.  Currently I have a financial interest in properties in six states: NV, MS, VT, OH, VA, MI.

What is your buy criteria?

It depends on the market.  In some I'm looking in the 180-200k range.  In others the 35k range.  In some I'm looking for brand new construction.  Others are 60-80 years old (but freshly rehabbed).

(This is why it's so hard to give specifics.  If we sat down for a few hours I could go into more depth on a particular market, what I look for there, etc.  But a question like "what is your buy criteria" is so broad that it's beyond answerable in a single short post.)

What are your property prices and rents like?

Again, it's a broad range.  My average rents are around 1000, and my average property price is around 90k.

Thanks for any help.  :)    I think it is awesome that you started for around 20k and that is a number I could start with right now, but I am not exactly sure what to do with it.    I am in Milwaukee and I know a very successful investor here who is doing lower-cost properties and she's retired on it, save for doing her own property management.  I am not sure that I want to manage my own and I am not sure that i want the same locations.

From what I understand, you're in quite a lucky position in that you're in a great market to invest in.  I've heard a number of investors who are working in Milwaukee and doing quite well.

You absolutely don't need to manage your own properties.  As I said earlier, my managing my properties has added about 2% to my ROI numbers.  I'd still be very happy with my ROI without that.  It's just a side gig for now that pays me about 5k/yr for very few hours of work.   I only manage my local ones, I have property managers for my long distance ones, and when I FIRE in two years, I'll turn my local ones over to PMs.

Start going to local real estate meetings and learning about your market.  There's no commitment, and if they try to pitch you to buy something, don't buy it.  Just go learn.  :)

[Eric]

I've always completely dismissed the idea of real estate as an investment, because I live in such a high COL area, and from what I see all of the "rules of thumb" are blown out of the water.  $400k properties renting for $2000/mo max.
...
Seems like that $2000/mo rent isn't enough.  Trying not to derail the thread, but am I wrong?

Yeah, I would not buy that.  I also don't buy in Vegas anymore, as the prices rose too much.  I invest in areas where it makes sense to invest, not just where I live.  If where you live doesn't make sense to own rentals, find another way to invest in RE.

Ok, I am going to try to derail the thread...well, maybe just a detour.

The Mrs. KBB and I are planning to move to FL in a couple years, central gulf coast, very nice, reasonably upscale area.  We have thought about buying a house there now and using as a rental for a couple of years.  We have never owned rental property before.  Is this a bad idea from so far away?  I know we would have to have a property manager of some kind, and have a repair/lawn service on call...all of which would eat into returns. 

Thoughts?  Advice?  Warnings?

Could be a terrible idea, could be a great idea.  Do your research.  Learning and knowing the local market is so, so key.

This is my biggest hangup.  Like bo_knows, there aren't really any deals to be had in my immediate area.  No matter how much I learn about my local market (silicon valley/SF Bay Area), I don't think I'm going to be able to find a rental deal.  People pay outrageous prices around here with the expectation of high appreciation with hardly any concerns about actual cash flow.

And I realize that there are other ways to invest in real estate.  I know you own out of state properties.  But I'd bet that you started locally, gained your experience in an incremental manner, and then once you knew what you were doing, found out of state deals and partners.  But it's a much more daunting task to try to learn about the rental market that you don't live in when you have no experience owning rentals of any kind.

I'm not trying to poo poo the idea, but I think you're slightly glossing over the challenges for those of us in HCOL areas where our local markets are not ideal.  I'd imagine that even for you, buying outside of your local market is more challenging than buying local.  But at least you have that local experience to fall back on.  Starting out buying out of the area is pretty intimidating for a novice.

[arebelspy]

#3 I am not the author of the blog, nor do I know the author in any personal way.

Okay, I'll take you at face value.  Given your screen name is investfourmore and the website in question is investfourmore .com, you can see how I would think that.

I find it very interesting how you automatically discount an entire RE blog because it is what you consider "anti-mustachian", especially considering you are involved in real estate. I for one love MMM's blog and the its ideas, I also consider myself "mustachian". But that sure as hell does NOT mean that I can not read or recommend a great RE investing blog because the author is "anti-mustachian".

No, the author being anti-Mustachian is just the only reason I mentioned why I don't recommend that blog around here.  I also don't recommend it to real estate non-Mustachians as well, as I just think it's fairly low quality.  I followed it via RSS for about a year but eventually had to remove it.  I disagree with a fair number of his RE ideas, and think he has a fundamental misunderstanding of math (read any of his justifications for how he pays off rentals and then gets more mortgages on new ones and you should see it, if you understand math).

Yes, the author has different ideas regarding spending... but why would you care? The blog is about RE INVESTING, NOT MONEY.

Really?  Have you read this blog?  It's much more about money than RE investing.  And it's even more so about living a meaningful life.

On a side note, I am curious to see your definition of "Mustachianism". I wonder, do you equate it to complete minimalism?

No, I don't.

For me, Mustachianism is the idea of not wasting money, spending less than you earn, being happy and nice to others, being logical, etc.

Agreed.

I simply thought people interested in specific rental numbers would have liked it... oh well.

Sure.  Like I mentioned, I don't like or recommend that blog personally, but that's not to say others won't enjoy it or get value out of it.  I'm glad you do.  It wasn't until you brought it up again out of the blue a second time in the thread (a post which you now appear to have deleted) that it turned to "why are you shilling for this website"?

No worries.  :)

[KBecks2]

[
Yes, the author has different ideas regarding spending... but why would you care? The blog is about RE INVESTING, NOT MONEY. The reason my name contains both blogs is because I enjoy reading them both.

 (I'm guessing this is why the author, Mark Ferguson is seen as anti-mustachian to you.. he owns a big house and expensive car. Regardless, it has nothing to do with the actual RE info.)

I totally had the impression that YOU were that blog author on the MMM,  InvestFourMore!   And then I was like, wow, Mark's starting a conversation about religion, that's interesting!   

P.S.  In fairness to Mark, perhaps you want to choose another MMM username, or add FAN to it? 

[arebelspy]

This is my biggest hangup.  Like bo_knows, there aren't really any deals to be had in my immediate area.  No matter how much I learn about my local market (silicon valley/SF Bay Area), I don't think I'm going to be able to find a rental deal.  People pay outrageous prices around here with the expectation of high appreciation with hardly any concerns about actual cash flow.

Right.  So time to research other markets.

And I realize that there are other ways to invest in real estate.  I know you own out of state properties.

Yes.  And owning rental properties also isn't the only way to invest in real estate.  If you don't know enough, network with people who do and invest along with them.

But I'd bet that you started locally, gained your experience in an incremental manner, and then once you knew what you were doing, found out of state deals and partners.  But it's a much more daunting task to try to learn about the rental market that you don't live in when you have no experience owning rentals of any kind.

Sure, any experience helps, but in actuality out of state investing was a completely different beast, so I had to learn all new things to do it - the same thing any new investor would have to learn as they start investing out of state.  My landlording experience didn't help much with that.  Evaluating the numbers is about the only thing that was useful, and I'm betting most Mustachians could do that.

I'm not trying to poo poo the idea, but I think you're slightly glossing over the challenges for those of us in HCOL areas where our local markets are not ideal.

It's absolutely going to be challenging.  I've always said it takes hard work.  That doesn't mean it's not worth doing.  Like I said, the benefits to FI are so great, it's well worth learning.

I'd imagine that even for you, buying outside of your local market is more challenging than buying local.  But at least you have that local experience to fall back on.  Starting out buying out of the area is pretty intimidating for a novice.

The opposite, actually.  Buying out of state is far easier, because it's all outsourced.  I have to do much more work when doing things locally.  And like I said, the local experience didn't help much, it was a whole new skillset to learn with the networking, evaluating people, etc.

Doing notes is a whole DIFFERENT set of experiences and knowledge that I've been learning.

RE has so many facets and aspects that if you don't want to do one, there's others. And often they're quite different, so someone's skills in one area may not help them in the other.  But it's still worth learning - to me - to improve and add options.

It's not easy.  It's way worth it.

[KBecks2]

And thanks for the reply, Rebel -- I appreciate it, and I would love to chit-chat more about real estate with you online (over time).  It is always inspiring to find someone who is making it work and enjoying it.   I had joined our REIA but was not getting to many meetings, and it was also a lot of packaged programs getting sold on how to wholesale and that stuff.  But, I want to meet some of the folks who go to that.  The local landlord association seems vibrant also, but my life does not let me get out that much to go network!!!

About a year ago I made a goal to get a first property before July 2015.  I am still hoping to make that happen.  It may be a dream, but I'll see if I can't inch along towards it.

Did you start locally, and how long have you been doing rentals?

[arebelspy]

Did you start locally, and how long have you been doing rentals?

I did, because back then I didn't know any better, and then shortly after that it made sense to invest locally.  About 7 years.

[Eric]

I'd imagine that even for you, buying outside of your local market is more challenging than buying local.  But at least you have that local experience to fall back on.  Starting out buying out of the area is pretty intimidating for a novice.

The opposite, actually.  Buying out of state is far easier, because it's all outsourced.  I have to do much more work when doing things locally.  And like I said, the local experience didn't help much, it was a whole new skillset to learn with the networking, evaluating people, etc.

Hmmm, I hadn't thought of it in that manner before.  Do you always have a local partner?

[HappyRock]

#3 I am not the author of the blog, nor do I know the author in any personal way.

Okay, I'll take you at face value.  Given your screen name is investfourmore and the website in question is investfourmore .com, you can see how I would think that.

I find it very interesting how you automatically discount an entire RE blog because it is what you consider "anti-mustachian", especially considering you are involved in real estate. I for one love MMM's blog and the its ideas, I also consider myself "mustachian". But that sure as hell does NOT mean that I can not read or recommend a great RE investing blog because the author is "anti-mustachian".

No, the author being anti-Mustachian is just the only reason I mentioned why I don't recommend that blog around here.  I also don't recommend it to real estate non-Mustachians as well, as I just think it's fairly low quality.  I followed it via RSS for about a year but eventually had to remove it.  I disagree with a fair number of his RE ideas, and think he has a fundamental misunderstanding of math (read any of his justifications for how he pays off rentals and then gets more mortgages on new ones and you should see it, if you understand math).

Yes, the author has different ideas regarding spending... but why would you care? The blog is about RE INVESTING, NOT MONEY.

Really?  Have you read this blog?  It's much more about money than RE investing.  And it's even more so about living a meaningful life.

On a side note, I am curious to see your definition of "Mustachianism". I wonder, do you equate it to complete minimalism?

No, I don't.

For me, Mustachianism is the idea of not wasting money, spending less than you earn, being happy and nice to others, being logical, etc.

Agreed.

I simply thought people interested in specific rental numbers would have liked it... oh well.

Sure.  Like I mentioned, I don't like or recommend that blog personally, but that's not to say others won't enjoy it or get value out of it.  I'm glad you do.  It wasn't until you brought it up again out of the blue a second time in the thread (a post which you now appear to have deleted) that it turned to "why are you shilling for this website"?

No worries.  :)

#1 Haha, that is understandable. But I doubt Mark would name himself after MMM. He would also probably list more info/details in account profile.

#2 His articles are good enough for biggerpockets to feature (200,000 + community there), but it seems we were/are reading his blog for vastly different reasons.

#3 You can imagine my confusion reading this response. I am not sure how what I wrote made you think I was referring to MMM. I was referring to IVM, and as far as I can tell, IVM is mostly about real estate. Lol.

#4. Good.

#5. Good.

#6. "Shilling for this website" Nice way to put it...anyway. Sorry to hear that. For me, this blog gave me inspiration to want to start learning and investing in real estate while I am as young as possible. It also gave me detailed numbers that I enjoy looking at. That reminds me, can you post the link to detailed numbers on your property please? Thanks

I deleted the post because it was marked as spam and flagged by a moderator.


To keep things on topic, do you have a particular favorite RE blog or book that you recommend?

[arebelspy]

#2 His articles are good enough for biggerpockets to feature (200,000 + community there), but it seems we were/are reading his blog for vastly different reasons.

Heh.  Around here you may not find a real high opinion of some of the bloggers BP takes.  There's some good ones, but a lot of them have faded out and been replaced with pretty much anyone BP can find.  Don't assume someone is an expert just because they write for a big, popular site.

Heck, you can start your own wordpress blog and write for BP after you have about 3 posts on your own blog.  Really, try it out.

You have to really filter the BP blog to find the gems nowadays, unfortunately, which wasn't the case before 2012 or so.

#3 You can imagine my confusion reading this response. I am not sure how what I wrote made you think I was referring to MMM. I was referring to IVM, and as far as I can tell, IVM is mostly about real estate. Lol.

Weird, I did not get that was what you were talking about, because the site we're on is MMM.  I could understand you saying that if we were on forums at IFM.com - and this blog is about Mustachianism, and only a little about real estate.   :)

To keep things on topic, do you have a particular favorite RE blog or book that you recommend?

Not 100% sure how that's on topic, but here you go: http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/real-estate-and-landlording/real-estate-book-recommendations/   Enjoy!  :)

[arebelspy]

I'd imagine that even for you, buying outside of your local market is more challenging than buying local.  But at least you have that local experience to fall back on.  Starting out buying out of the area is pretty intimidating for a novice.

The opposite, actually.  Buying out of state is far easier, because it's all outsourced.  I have to do much more work when doing things locally.  And like I said, the local experience didn't help much, it was a whole new skillset to learn with the networking, evaluating people, etc.

Hmmm, I hadn't thought of it in that manner before.  Do you always have a local partner?

I don't, personally.    But I think partnering with someone who is experienced is a good way to go for a lot of people.  Just understand that you won't see the returns I am, as you'll be splitting with a partner.

You can get probably at least 8% "guaranteed" though (barring a major disaster, which you should insure against - you'll get first priority lien on the property, which means you get paid in full before your partner makes one cent).

[HappyRock]

#2 His articles are good enough for biggerpockets to feature (200,000 + community there), but it seems we were/are reading his blog for vastly different reasons.

Heh.  Around here you may not find a real high opinion of some of the bloggers BP takes.  There's some good ones, but a lot of them have faded out and been replaced with pretty much anyone BP can find.  Don't assume someone is an expert just because they write for a big, popular site.

Heck, you can start your own wordpress blog and write for BP after you have about 3 posts on your own blog.  Really, try it out.

You have to really filter the BP blog to find the gems nowadays, unfortunately, which wasn't the case before 2012 or so.

#3 You can imagine my confusion reading this response. I am not sure how what I wrote made you think I was referring to MMM. I was referring to IVM, and as far as I can tell, IVM is mostly about real estate. Lol.

Weird, I did not get that was what you were talking about, because the site we're on is MMM.  I could understand you saying that if we were on forums at IFM.com - and this blog is about Mustachianism, and only a little about real estate.   :)

To keep things on topic, do you have a particular favorite RE blog or book that you recommend?

Not 100% sure how that's on topic, but here you go: http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/real-estate-and-landlording/real-estate-book-recommendations/   Enjoy!  :)

I think this is getting pretty futile... but I can't resist. :)

#1 I think you are confused, I assume someone is an expert in Real Estate when they are making millions of dollars in Real Estate. (IVM's situation)

#2 That is weird indeed. Almost the entire post and conversation between you and I was regarding IVM. Thus, why I was confused when you thought I was referring to MMM in that situation.

#3 This post is about your success in RE investing. The main reason you created this may have just been to boast. But the most helpful reason for you creating this particular post is so we can ask/get information that helped you succeed. Since you and I were talking about a RE blog, I was assuming that asking you which RE book/blog that was most beneficial to you related to this topic. Understand?

I guess you can't find the link that details your properties, oh well.. maybe ill look for it another time.

Thanks for the link to the books at least, good list!

Regardless of all that, wish you luck and nice job so far! RE investing is awesome.
-Cheers
     

[MarkFerguson]

Hi Everyone, this really is Mark Ferguson from Invest Four More.  I am in no way associated with investfourmoremmm, nor have any idea who he is. I was a bit surprised when i saw traffic coming in from this thread and saw someone with that name, because I too would assume it was me.  I know better than to post links to my blog unsolicited in forums.  I think it would be better for everyone if the name was changed from investfourmoremmm to something else to avoid confusion. 

As far as the real estate discussion goes,I would be happy to answer questions or help anyway I can.  I read the thread and would like to clarify a couple of things. 

1. It may be misleading to say I make millions from real estate.  I have probably made millions in my career from being an agent, flipping and rentals, but I don't make million per year.

2. I understand arbelspy concern about paying off mortgages while getting new mortgages.  I would say it is far from a fundamental math problem.  My reasoning was to pay off one mortgage at a time because I had ARM loans and they would most likely have an increase in interest at some point (five years down the road. By paying off one mortgage at a time with all my cash flow I would pay that loan down very fast and it would be an older loan that had less time left on the ARM.  I would then use financing with 20 % down to buy more properties using my earned income.  It costs a little more to get a new loan, but the time I have until the ARM can increase is at least a couple years compared to the older mortgages.  I have stopped paying off one mortgage at a time with my cash flow and I am instead saving that cash flow.  I figure I can pay off one house in one lump some if I need too.  Although the time when an ARM starts costing more than a 30 year fixed is about the 7th or 8th year.  I have some time there as well.  I can probably use that cash flow on something that produces better returns even if my rates jumped to 9%.  Strategies change and no one knows everything!

3. I can understand why you think I am anti-mustachian.  I do own a house with a 5 car garage and a Lambo. I think it is incredibly arrogant to say no one should ever listen to someone because they have a different viewpoint on life.  I listen to anyone and everyone I can and I learn something from everyone as well.  Sure I may not agree with all they do, but that doesn't stop me from listening to what they say or saying no one should ever talk to that person or visit that site.  I always listen and explore to see if some of it makes sense and can help me in some way.  Learning what not to do is just as important as learning what to do in some cases.   

4. I agree with many MMM ideas about saving money and I think it is great that he is a champion for the world we live in.  I think saving money and investing it is how people get ahead in life.  I also think people do a disservice to themselves by hiding what they truly want and desire. I am a car person, I always have been and I always will be.  The Countach (lamborghini) was a dream of mine since I was 6.  I let that dream fade away when I got older and let the world convince me I could never afford a car like that. Then I started to believe in myself again and believe I could have what I wanted if I put my mind to it and worked hard.  I did not buy a Countach, but I bought a 1999 Lamborghini Diablo in Monterey Blue this past summer.  I got it ten years sooner than I thought I would and it is freakin awesome.  It helps my business and it will most likely go up in value not down like most cars.  I made a deal that when my blog started making enough money to cover the monthly costs I would get one.  I still have never bought a new car in my life.  I agree with saving money, but I also think it is okay to spend money on things we love or after we have worked our ass off to earn it. 

5. Like I said I would be happy to answer questions about my properties or real estate.  I own 11 rentals in Northern Colorado, I have 9 fix and flips going right now and I run a real estate team of ten. My blog which I won't link too had over 160,000 views last month and is all about flipping, rentals and becoming a real estate agent. 

[arebelspy]

Welcome to the forums Mark!

Hi Everyone, this really is Mark Ferguson from Invest Four More.  I am in no way associated with investfourmoremmm, nor have any idea who he is. I was a bit surprised when i saw traffic coming in from this thread and saw someone with that name, because I too would assume it was me.  I know better than to post links to my blog unsolicited in forums.  I think it would be better for everyone if the name was changed from investfourmoremmm to something else to avoid confusion. 

As far as the real estate discussion goes,I would be happy to answer questions or help anyway I can.  I read the thread and would like to clarify a couple of things. 

1. It may be misleading to say I make millions from real estate.  I have probably made millions in my career from being an agent, flipping and rentals, but I don't make million per year.

2. I understand arbelspy concern about paying off mortgages while getting new mortgages.  I would say it is far from a fundamental math problem.  My reasoning was to pay off one mortgage at a time because I had ARM loans and they would most likely have an increase in interest at some point (five years down the road. By paying off one mortgage at a time with all my cash flow I would pay that loan down very fast and it would be an older loan that had less time left on the ARM.  I would then use financing with 20 % down to buy more properties using my earned income.  It costs a little more to get a new loan, but the time I have until the ARM can increase is at least a couple years compared to the older mortgages.  I have stopped paying off one mortgage at a time with my cash flow and I am instead saving that cash flow.  I figure I can pay off one house in one lump some if I need too.  Although the time when an ARM starts costing more than a 30 year fixed is about the 7th or 8th year.  I have some time there as well.  I can probably use that cash flow on something that produces better returns even if my rates jumped to 9%.  Strategies change and no one knows everything!

...

4. I agree with many MMM ideas about saving money and I think it is great that he is a champion for the world we live in.  I think saving money and investing it is how people get ahead in life.  I also think people do a disservice to themselves by hiding what they truly want and desire. I am a car person, I always have been and I always will be.  The Countach (lamborghini) was a dream of mine since I was 6.  I let that dream fade away when I got older and let the world convince me I could never afford a car like that. Then I started to believe in myself again and believe I could have what I wanted if I put my mind to it and worked hard.  I did not buy a Countach, but I bought a 1999 Lamborghini Diablo in Monterey Blue this past summer.  I got it ten years sooner than I thought I would and it is freakin awesome.  It helps my business and it will most likely go up in value not down like most cars.  I made a deal that when my blog started making enough money to cover the monthly costs I would get one.  I still have never bought a new car in my life.  I agree with saving money, but I also think it is okay to spend money on things we love or after we have worked our ass off to earn it. 

5. Like I said I would be happy to answer questions about my properties or real estate.  I own 11 rentals in Northern Colorado, I have 9 fix and flips going right now and I run a real estate team of ten. My blog which I won't link too had over 160,000 views last month and is all about flipping, rentals and becoming a real estate agent.

Thanks for clarifying Mark, especially on the above quoted points!

I agree with everything you said, just want to comment on point 3:

I think it is incredibly arrogant to say no one should ever listen to someone because they have a different viewpoint on life.  I listen to anyone and everyone I can and I learn something from everyone as well.

I wasn't saying no one should listen, I was explaining why I personally don't link to your blog.  I listen to all kinds of viewpoints I disagree with, to learn.

But I don't necessarily go tell everyone I know about it.  Like I said, others may learn a lot and get a lot out of it, and that's great.  I don't personally, so that's why I don't tend to link to it.  I'm sure you don't go around all the time linking to things you don't like to read or things you disagree with either.

I'm glad you appeared not to take offense, and I certainly didn't intend any.  It's not for me, but I'm sure you realize your stuff isn't for everyone, but clearly you have a very devoted follower in the guy who created his MMM forum screen name after your blog, and I'm sure many more, so you must be doing some things right; keep it up.  :)

[arebelspy]

I guess you can't find the link that details your properties, oh well.. maybe ill look for it another time.

I didn't bother going to look and pull them out.  I don't have the time or interest in doing that right now.  But they're out there, dozens of them, if you are interested and do want to look.

Here is all my posts: http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/profile/?area=showposts;u=25

Enjoy!

[MarkFerguson]

Welcome to the forums Mark!

Hi Everyone, this really is Mark Ferguson from Invest Four More.  I am in no way associated with investfourmoremmm, nor have any idea who he is. I was a bit surprised when i saw traffic coming in from this thread and saw someone with that name, because I too would assume it was me.  I know better than to post links to my blog unsolicited in forums.  I think it would be better for everyone if the name was changed from investfourmoremmm to something else to avoid confusion. 

As far as the real estate discussion goes,I would be happy to answer questions or help anyway I can.  I read the thread and would like to clarify a couple of things. 

1. It may be misleading to say I make millions from real estate.  I have probably made millions in my career from being an agent, flipping and rentals, but I don't make million per year.

2. I understand arbelspy concern about paying off mortgages while getting new mortgages.  I would say it is far from a fundamental math problem.  My reasoning was to pay off one mortgage at a time because I had ARM loans and they would most likely have an increase in interest at some point (five years down the road. By paying off one mortgage at a time with all my cash flow I would pay that loan down very fast and it would be an older loan that had less time left on the ARM.  I would then use financing with 20 % down to buy more properties using my earned income.  It costs a little more to get a new loan, but the time I have until the ARM can increase is at least a couple years compared to the older mortgages.  I have stopped paying off one mortgage at a time with my cash flow and I am instead saving that cash flow.  I figure I can pay off one house in one lump some if I need too.  Although the time when an ARM starts costing more than a 30 year fixed is about the 7th or 8th year.  I have some time there as well.  I can probably use that cash flow on something that produces better returns even if my rates jumped to 9%.  Strategies change and no one knows everything!

...

4. I agree with many MMM ideas about saving money and I think it is great that he is a champion for the world we live in.  I think saving money and investing it is how people get ahead in life.  I also think people do a disservice to themselves by hiding what they truly want and desire. I am a car person, I always have been and I always will be.  The Countach (lamborghini) was a dream of mine since I was 6.  I let that dream fade away when I got older and let the world convince me I could never afford a car like that. Then I started to believe in myself again and believe I could have what I wanted if I put my mind to it and worked hard.  I did not buy a Countach, but I bought a 1999 Lamborghini Diablo in Monterey Blue this past summer.  I got it ten years sooner than I thought I would and it is freakin awesome.  It helps my business and it will most likely go up in value not down like most cars.  I made a deal that when my blog started making enough money to cover the monthly costs I would get one.  I still have never bought a new car in my life.  I agree with saving money, but I also think it is okay to spend money on things we love or after we have worked our ass off to earn it. 

5. Like I said I would be happy to answer questions about my properties or real estate.  I own 11 rentals in Northern Colorado, I have 9 fix and flips going right now and I run a real estate team of ten. My blog which I won't link too had over 160,000 views last month and is all about flipping, rentals and becoming a real estate agent.

Thanks for clarifying Mark, especially on the above quoted points!

I agree with everything you said, just want to comment on point 3:

I think it is incredibly arrogant to say no one should ever listen to someone because they have a different viewpoint on life.  I listen to anyone and everyone I can and I learn something from everyone as well.

I wasn't saying no one should listen, I was explaining why I personally don't link to your blog.  I listen to all kinds of viewpoints I disagree with, to learn.

But I don't necessarily go tell everyone I know about it.  Like I said, others may learn a lot and get a lot out of it, and that's great.  I don't personally, so that's why I don't tend to link to it.  I'm sure you don't go around all the time linking to things you don't like to read or things you disagree with either.

I'm glad you appeared not to take offense, and I certainly didn't intend any.  It's not for me, but I'm sure you realize your stuff isn't for everyone, but clearly you have a very devoted follower in the guy who created his MMM forum screen name after your blog, and I'm sure many more, so you must be doing some things right; keep it up.  :)

Fair enough, I may have misunderstood your tone a bit.  I wasn't concerned about people linking to my blog, but the attitude that you shouldn't go to that site because it is anti mmm. I don't think that was your point after your explanation.  Nice work on the rentals by the way.   

[MarkFerguson]

#2 His articles are good enough for biggerpockets to feature (200,000 + community there), but it seems we were/are reading his blog for vastly different reasons.

Heh.  Around here you may not find a real high opinion of some of the bloggers BP takes.  There's some good ones, but a lot of them have faded out and been replaced with pretty much anyone BP can find.  Don't assume someone is an expert just because they write for a big, popular site.

Heck, you can start your own wordpress blog and write for BP after you have about 3 posts on your own blog.  Really, try it out.

You have to really filter the BP blog to find the gems nowadays, unfortunately, which wasn't the case before 2012 or so.

#3 You can imagine my confusion reading this response. I am not sure how what I wrote made you think I was referring to MMM. I was referring to IVM, and as far as I can tell, IVM is mostly about real estate. Lol.

Weird, I did not get that was what you were talking about, because the site we're on is MMM.  I could understand you saying that if we were on forums at IFM.com - and this blog is about Mustachianism, and only a little about real estate.   :)

To keep things on topic, do you have a particular favorite RE blog or book that you recommend?

Not 100% sure how that's on topic, but here you go: http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/real-estate-and-landlording/real-estate-book-recommendations/   Enjoy!  :)

I think this is getting pretty futile... but I can't resist. :)

#1 I think you are confused, I assume someone is an expert in Real Estate when they are making millions of dollars in Real Estate. (IVM's situation)

#2 That is weird indeed. Almost the entire post and conversation between you and I was regarding IVM. Thus, why I was confused when you thought I was referring to MMM in that situation.

#3 This post is about your success in RE investing. The main reason you created this may have just been to boast. But the most helpful reason for you creating this particular post is so we can ask/get information that helped you succeed. Since you and I were talking about a RE blog, I was assuming that asking you which RE book/blog that was most beneficial to you related to this topic. Understand?

I guess you can't find the link that details your properties, oh well.. maybe ill look for it another time.

Thanks for the link to the books at least, good list!

Regardless of all that, wish you luck and nice job so far! RE investing is awesome.
-Cheers
   

FYI, I do appreciate the support and links you initially posted to my blog. 

[HappyRock]

Hi Everyone, this really is Mark Ferguson from Invest Four More.  I am in no way associated with investfourmoremmm, nor have any idea who he is. I was a bit surprised when i saw traffic coming in from this thread and saw someone with that name, because I too would assume it was me.  I know better than to post links to my blog unsolicited in forums.  I think it would be better for everyone if the name was changed from investfourmoremmm to something else to avoid confusion. 

As far as the real estate discussion goes,I would be happy to answer questions or help anyway I can.  I read the thread and would like to clarify a couple of things. 

1. It may be misleading to say I make millions from real estate.  I have probably made millions in my career from being an agent, flipping and rentals, but I don't make million per year.

2. I understand arbelspy concern about paying off mortgages while getting new mortgages.  I would say it is far from a fundamental math problem.  My reasoning was to pay off one mortgage at a time because I had ARM loans and they would most likely have an increase in interest at some point (five years down the road. By paying off one mortgage at a time with all my cash flow I would pay that loan down very fast and it would be an older loan that had less time left on the ARM.  I would then use financing with 20 % down to buy more properties using my earned income.  It costs a little more to get a new loan, but the time I have until the ARM can increase is at least a couple years compared to the older mortgages.  I have stopped paying off one mortgage at a time with my cash flow and I am instead saving that cash flow.  I figure I can pay off one house in one lump some if I need too.  Although the time when an ARM starts costing more than a 30 year fixed is about the 7th or 8th year.  I have some time there as well.  I can probably use that cash flow on something that produces better returns even if my rates jumped to 9%.  Strategies change and no one knows everything!

3. I can understand why you think I am anti-mustachian.  I do own a house with a 5 car garage and a Lambo. I think it is incredibly arrogant to say no one should ever listen to someone because they have a different viewpoint on life.  I listen to anyone and everyone I can and I learn something from everyone as well.  Sure I may not agree with all they do, but that doesn't stop me from listening to what they say or saying no one should ever talk to that person or visit that site.  I always listen and explore to see if some of it makes sense and can help me in some way.  Learning what not to do is just as important as learning what to do in some cases.   

4. I agree with many MMM ideas about saving money and I think it is great that he is a champion for the world we live in.  I think saving money and investing it is how people get ahead in life.  I also think people do a disservice to themselves by hiding what they truly want and desire. I am a car person, I always have been and I always will be.  The Countach (lamborghini) was a dream of mine since I was 6.  I let that dream fade away when I got older and let the world convince me I could never afford a car like that. Then I started to believe in myself again and believe I could have what I wanted if I put my mind to it and worked hard.  I did not buy a Countach, but I bought a 1999 Lamborghini Diablo in Monterey Blue this past summer.  I got it ten years sooner than I thought I would and it is freakin awesome.  It helps my business and it will most likely go up in value not down like most cars.  I made a deal that when my blog started making enough money to cover the monthly costs I would get one.  I still have never bought a new car in my life.  I agree with saving money, but I also think it is okay to spend money on things we love or after we have worked our ass off to earn it. 

5. Like I said I would be happy to answer questions about my properties or real estate.  I own 11 rentals in Northern Colorado, I have 9 fix and flips going right now and I run a real estate team of ten. My blog which I won't link too had over 160,000 views last month and is all about flipping, rentals and becoming a real estate agent.

Some things I should mention :

#1 I wasn't implying you make millions in a year, just that you have had great success in RE investing from what I read. I only exaggerated this to get my point across more clearly. I simply just did not agree with Rebel in this case.

#2 Agree 100%, and there is a lot more you can learn and get from your blog then what Rebel was complaining about.

#3 Very nicely put. I didn't exactly classify you as "anti-mustachian", I just gave his argument the benefit of the doubt and went with it. Personally, I think with your views on money and life in general you SHOULD be considered Mustachian.

To be fair, I simply named my account after two blogs I enjoy reading. My name also had "MMM" in it, and also had no forum account settings. So you can't really assume that I am the owner of either the MMM or IVM blog. (I also didn't mind that some traffic might be directed over to IVM blog.)

Account name changed, at least maybe I got Mark to post here. :)

-Cheers

[HappyRock]

Welcome to the forums Mark!

Hi Everyone, this really is Mark Ferguson from Invest Four More.  I am in no way associated with investfourmoremmm, nor have any idea who he is. I was a bit surprised when i saw traffic coming in from this thread and saw someone with that name, because I too would assume it was me.  I know better than to post links to my blog unsolicited in forums.  I think it would be better for everyone if the name was changed from investfourmoremmm to something else to avoid confusion. 

As far as the real estate discussion goes,I would be happy to answer questions or help anyway I can.  I read the thread and would like to clarify a couple of things. 

1. It may be misleading to say I make millions from real estate.  I have probably made millions in my career from being an agent, flipping and rentals, but I don't make million per year.

2. I understand arbelspy concern about paying off mortgages while getting new mortgages.  I would say it is far from a fundamental math problem.  My reasoning was to pay off one mortgage at a time because I had ARM loans and they would most likely have an increase in interest at some point (five years down the road. By paying off one mortgage at a time with all my cash flow I would pay that loan down very fast and it would be an older loan that had less time left on the ARM.  I would then use financing with 20 % down to buy more properties using my earned income.  It costs a little more to get a new loan, but the time I have until the ARM can increase is at least a couple years compared to the older mortgages.  I have stopped paying off one mortgage at a time with my cash flow and I am instead saving that cash flow.  I figure I can pay off one house in one lump some if I need too.  Although the time when an ARM starts costing more than a 30 year fixed is about the 7th or 8th year.  I have some time there as well.  I can probably use that cash flow on something that produces better returns even if my rates jumped to 9%.  Strategies change and no one knows everything!

...

4. I agree with many MMM ideas about saving money and I think it is great that he is a champion for the world we live in.  I think saving money and investing it is how people get ahead in life.  I also think people do a disservice to themselves by hiding what they truly want and desire. I am a car person, I always have been and I always will be.  The Countach (lamborghini) was a dream of mine since I was 6.  I let that dream fade away when I got older and let the world convince me I could never afford a car like that. Then I started to believe in myself again and believe I could have what I wanted if I put my mind to it and worked hard.  I did not buy a Countach, but I bought a 1999 Lamborghini Diablo in Monterey Blue this past summer.  I got it ten years sooner than I thought I would and it is freakin awesome.  It helps my business and it will most likely go up in value not down like most cars.  I made a deal that when my blog started making enough money to cover the monthly costs I would get one.  I still have never bought a new car in my life.  I agree with saving money, but I also think it is okay to spend money on things we love or after we have worked our ass off to earn it. 

5. Like I said I would be happy to answer questions about my properties or real estate.  I own 11 rentals in Northern Colorado, I have 9 fix and flips going right now and I run a real estate team of ten. My blog which I won't link too had over 160,000 views last month and is all about flipping, rentals and becoming a real estate agent.

Thanks for clarifying Mark, especially on the above quoted points!

I agree with everything you said, just want to comment on point 3:

I think it is incredibly arrogant to say no one should ever listen to someone because they have a different viewpoint on life.  I listen to anyone and everyone I can and I learn something from everyone as well.

I wasn't saying no one should listen, I was explaining why I personally don't link to your blog.  I listen to all kinds of viewpoints I disagree with, to learn.

But I don't necessarily go tell everyone I know about it.  Like I said, others may learn a lot and get a lot out of it, and that's great.  I don't personally, so that's why I don't tend to link to it.  I'm sure you don't go around all the time linking to things you don't like to read or things you disagree with either.

I'm glad you appeared not to take offense, and I certainly didn't intend any.  It's not for me, but I'm sure you realize your stuff isn't for everyone, but clearly you have a very devoted follower in the guy who created his MMM forum screen name after your blog, and I'm sure many more, so you must be doing some things right; keep it up.  :)

Or maybe I just didn't agree with what you said/did, and wanted to explain my point of view.

I may have created this account recently after I read Mark's post on trying to increase his blog's readers even more. Probably why I chose that name. Yes I enjoy reading about RE investing, but I wouldn't consider myself a "very devoted follower".

I guess you can't find the link that details your properties, oh well.. maybe ill look for it another time.

I didn't bother going to look and pull them out.  I don't have the time or interest in doing that right now.  But they're out there, dozens of them, if you are interested and do want to look.

Here is all my posts: http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/profile/?area=showposts;u=25

Enjoy!

LOL, sure. :)

-Cheers

[KBecks2]

Yo Mark,

NICE CAR, MAN!!!!!  :)

And I think it's great that you listen to all kinds of viewpoints, that's how I like to operate and there's always something to consider from another person's point of view.  I haven't spent much time on your blog, but I love that you set big, hairy, audacious goals and then GO FOR IT!!!  That is awesome. 

If you get into the MMM blog at all, he's got some fantastic material.  I am learning a lot everywhere I go. :)

Good to see you over here, enjoy the weekend.

[MarkFerguson]

Yo Mark,

NICE CAR, MAN!!!!!  :)

And I think it's great that you listen to all kinds of viewpoints, that's how I like to operate and there's always something to consider from another person's point of view.  I haven't spent much time on your blog, but I love that you set big, hairy, audacious goals and then GO FOR IT!!!  That is awesome. 

If you get into the MMM blog at all, he's got some fantastic material.  I am learning a lot everywhere I go. :)

Good to see you over here, enjoy the weekend.

Thank you! I do Check out the MMM blog.  MMM was too keen on the lambo.  Lol. 

[zinethstache]

Here's a quick reader tip. If you find a poster that you go....oooo, I can learn from this guy, click on their name, from there you can "view all posts" etc. I found ARs posts very helpful and read those early on. I've read MMM, BP, FW, Marks and and many other blogs end to end. Keep on reading. You will quickly mark off the types of real estate you are not interested in... Wholesaling...nope, flipping....nope, Landlording... yup.

I too am learning about landlording so am hungry for everything I can read. It is very hard when you are getting started, it sure does seem that we are always at the tail end of the latest wave and why didn't we start sooner. I've wanted rentals since I was a kid. I was hugely influenced by a family I used to babysit for, his dad owned both commercial and residential real estate, for some reason I cannot remember, we had a long conversation about his success in real estate and it hooked me. However life happened and I did not buy my first rental until I was 44... Sheesh what was I thinking!

I caught the tail end of my HCOL area's low end in real estate and out of it I ended up with three multi's. Our next step might have to be buying out of the area. I have lots of time to figure that out and certainly the experience and cash flow from what we did acquire will feed my fire to learn, learn, learn. I am contemplating a 1031 with one of the properties already because it has increased in value so much I need the equity out of it to buy more... Scary but fun stuff I tell you, and very addicting:)

Moral of the story, read, read, read... and don't get stuck (avoid analysis paralysis) really hone in on what will work for you and just do it!

[HappyRock]

Here's a quick reader tip. If you find a poster that you go....oooo, I can learn from this guy, click on their name, from there you can "view all posts" etc. I found ARs posts very helpful and read those early on. I've read MMM, BP, FW, Marks and and many other blogs end to end. Keep on reading. You will quickly mark off the types of real estate you are not interested in... Wholesaling...nope, flipping....nope, Landlording... yup.

I too am learning about landlording so am hungry for everything I can read. It is very hard when you are getting started, it sure does seem that we are always at the tail end of the latest wave and why didn't we start sooner. I've wanted rentals since I was a kid. I was hugely influenced by a family I used to babysit for, his dad owned both commercial and residential real estate, for some reason I cannot remember, we had a long conversation about his success in real estate and it hooked me. However life happened and I did not buy my first rental until I was 44... Sheesh what was I thinking!

I caught the tail end of my HCOL area's low end in real estate and out of it I ended up with three multi's. Our next step might have to be buying out of the area. I have lots of time to figure that out and certainly the experience and cash flow from what we did acquire will feed my fire to learn, learn, learn. I am contemplating a 1031 with one of the properties already because it has increased in value so much I need the equity out of it to buy more... Scary but fun stuff I tell you, and very addicting:)

Moral of the story, read, read, read... and don't get stuck (avoid analysis paralysis) really hone in on what will work for you and just do it!

Great post! And good luck with the properties.

[Exflyboy]

This was a very interesting post.. albeit 120 days old.

I too tend to dismiss RE/landlording in favour of the stock market. But I do have two rentals but they are on my property. One is a single wide trailer on pier blocks (yes its coming down in the Earthquake) and a small cabin that is detached from the main house.

I have had a total of about 3 weeks vacant time in the 19 yers I have owned them and made about $300k in income and met some wonderful people along the way.

In that time I have had two possums die under crawl space (lovely!), 1 water heater go out. 3 plumbing leaks (one major that took a few days of work to get dried out. One roof that I replaced, 12 siding panels replaced. painted the interior of the trailer once. replaced one outside door.

I do all my own repairs and you know $300k for that amount of work is a pretty darned good return.

On the other hand it IS a business and one day we will sell the house and get away from it, but overall it has been very good to us.

[Dicey]

Hey EFB, are you being sure to include the commute to and from your rentals in your savings total? Leave it to you to find a way to outfox the proverbial midnight rental plumbing leak phone call.

[Exflyboy]

Hey EFB, are you being sure to include the commute to and from your rentals in your savings total? Leave it to you to find a way to outfox the proverbial midnight rental plumbing leak phone call.

What you mean the 150 foot walk from my house to the trailer?.. Actually I should count the 8 mile round trips to buy parts from Home Depot though..:)

[arebelspy]

And if you outsourced that work, 300k-a few hundred bucks for someone else to do it = much higher percent return on your time.  :)

[imustachemystash]

I got inspired to invest in real estate after listening to you talk at the breakout sessions at Camp Mustache.  It took a year of research, but I finally got my first rental property. It's a vacation rental in a low cost of living area with year round tourism.  I am going with a "luxury cabin rental" because you can charge more per night. I'll post my returns a year from now.

I can't wait to have enough saved up to buy another rental home.

[arebelspy]

I got inspired to invest in real estate after listening to you talk at the breakout sessions at Camp Mustache.  It took a year of research, but I finally got my first rental property. It's a vacation rental in a low cost of living area with year round tourism.  I am going with a "luxury cabin rental" because you can charge more per night. I'll post my returns a year from now.

I can't wait to have enough saved up to buy another rental home.

That's awesome!

The first year can be rough, as you run into repair issues and fix-up stuff the old owners didn't bother with.  But once you have it in shape, the sailing gets a little smoother.  Looking forward to hearing more about your progress soon.  :)

[SwordGuy]

The first year can be rough, as you run into repair issues and fix-up stuff the old owners didn't bother with.  But once you have it in shape, the sailing gets a little smoother. 

That sure seems true!  I'm looking forward to year #2 and less repair hassle! :)

[Cassie]

I enjoy watching the TV shows about flipping but sometimes they uncover unknown problems and don't make $ on their deals. We had a rental when we lived in WI and years later in NV and never made any $ so it is not a sure thing. After that we stuck to stocks.  Glad that others have done better.

[mm1970]

Now I'm sitting here scratching my head on why more Mustachians aren't using RE as a FIRE accelerate.  It's built right into the NAME.

Mmm...because real estate is uber expensive here.