Author Topic: Paid off my mortgage  (Read 6911 times)

SugarMountain

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Paid off my mortgage
« on: July 28, 2017, 04:01:59 PM »
There wasn't that much left, so I just did it.  It is actually a little anti-climactic.

Miss Piggy

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Re: Paid off my mortgage
« Reply #1 on: July 28, 2017, 04:07:21 PM »
Awesomesauce!!! Congratulations!

Yeah, ours was a little anticlimactic as well. I envisioned a mortgage-burning party and the whole nine yards, but in reality, it was just an announcement with the family at Christmas. A relief nonetheless.

I know paying off the mortgage is a bit controversial on this forum, but for us, it was very much the right thing to do, and I'm so glad we did it. It was the big thing that kickstarted and motivated us toward FIRE before we even knew what FIRE was.

wtp1020

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Re: Paid off my mortgage
« Reply #2 on: July 29, 2017, 10:03:29 AM »
Congratulations SugarMountain!

Add me to the anti climatic group as well. I thought we'd feel a huge weight lifted by not having a mortgage, and while it was nice it turned out to be just another day. I had the day off and my husband was at work when the final payment cleared the bank. I texted him that our mortgage was paid in full, he replied Cool. I went to my favorite coffee shop and celebrated with a cup of coffee.

It's nice not to see that payment come out of our bank account!

minimalistgamer

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Re: Paid off my mortgage
« Reply #3 on: July 29, 2017, 12:44:32 PM »
Congratulations!

We paid off ours in January of this year. I felt absolutely great about doing so, but the only reason it felt a little bit anti-climatic was because I did not announce it in real life. Other than my wife, no one knows. Its sad that I can't talk to the rest my family about this but that's just how life is. They will not understand it, and once they know that I don't have a mortgage, they will have opinions on how I should spend my money.

It is a good way to destroy relationships. So I just kept it to ourselves. I also announced it on the Internet of course. lol.
I paid off my mortgage! You can read the details here -
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Feel free to ask any questions.

Plugra

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Re: Paid off my mortgage
« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2017, 05:04:50 PM »
Congratulations on doing something that very few ever manage to do!

We did pay off our mortgage a few years ago, just as our youngest was starting college.  I was not able to tell anyone at the time because, as others have said, it is not considered a normal thing to do.  My parents were paying one mortgage after another for fifty years and never built up any equity ... (sigh).

Socmonkey

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Re: Paid off my mortgage
« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2017, 07:25:16 PM »
Oh wow, that's great!

Your monthly cashflow is about to go way up! Are you already maxed out on tax advantaged retirement accounts? What are your plans on using this freed up cashflow?

You own your home. That's security right there. Knowing that you can basically get just about any job and be able to cover the property taxes, insurance, maintenance, utilities, and food you need to live. Plus you can hit FI with a much smaller amount, as your housing expenses have gone way down.

I will join the mortgage payoff club one day. :D

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Babybalrog

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Re: Paid off my mortgage
« Reply #6 on: August 04, 2017, 09:54:45 AM »
It is actually a little anti-climactic.

I think only for now. The peace of mind and free cash flow will settle in soon.
“He was swimming in a sea of other people’s expectations. Men had drowned in seas like that.”
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Lmoot

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Re: Paid off my mortgage
« Reply #7 on: August 07, 2017, 06:52:32 AM »
 Congratulations! I can kind of understand the anti-climatic feeling even though I haven't paid off my own mortgage yet. I have 40K left, but my mortgage is around $350; that's like some people's car payment. So it's not going to be some big change in life when I pay it off LOL it is currently a rental property, so it will be nice to keep the majority of the rent check for personal savings.

FIREby35

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Re: Paid off my mortgage
« Reply #8 on: August 07, 2017, 06:54:15 AM »
CONGRATS!

prognastat

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Re: Paid off my mortgage
« Reply #9 on: August 07, 2017, 09:45:07 AM »
Congrats, we haven't yet. The plan for us is to do it once our stache is built then switching to paying off the mortgage before FIRE.

lizzzi

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Re: Paid off my mortgage
« Reply #10 on: August 07, 2017, 12:43:23 PM »
Congratulations!. I have always been one who likes to buy a house outright (or pay off the mortgage ASAP), and then save and invest the amount I was putting into the mortgage. Maybe reward yourselves with something nice but not too pricey--or reward yourselves with one "mortgage payment" or whatever seems right for you--but then don't fall into the tar pit of lifestyle creep. Save that money!

Closer2theSKY

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Re: Paid off my mortgage
« Reply #11 on: August 08, 2017, 06:58:24 AM »
Congratulations!!!!

boarder42

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Re: Paid off my mortgage
« Reply #12 on: August 08, 2017, 05:05:58 PM »
Congratulations!. I have always been one who likes to buy a house outright (or pay off the mortgage ASAP), and then save and invest the amount I was putting into the mortgage. Maybe reward yourselves with something nice but not too pricey--or reward yourselves with one "mortgage payment" or whatever seems right for you--but then don't fall into the tar pit of lifestyle creep. Save that money!

Way to do it compound a bad financial decision with a second bad financial decision.
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lizzzi

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Re: Paid off my mortgage
« Reply #13 on: August 09, 2017, 06:24:00 AM »
Hey, boarder42--can you clarify what you mean?

DrF

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Re: Paid off my mortgage
« Reply #14 on: August 09, 2017, 08:06:03 AM »
Boarder42 means with today's low interest rates, ~4% or even lower if you locked in sometime over the past 4 years, you'd have been in a much better financial position if you'd invested those extra mortgage payments. Basically he's arguing (like the many threads that discuss mortgage vs no mortgage) that it's better to invest than pay off the mortgage.

Then, he's calling out the bad advice to "splurge" for accomplishing paying off the mortgage.

It's splitting hairs.

Paying off a mortgage is a wonderful thing! Congratulations OP! Internet people can get a bit pedantic over what's the ABSOLUTE BEST option vs many other perfectly reasonable paths to FIRE.

Cwadda

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Re: Paid off my mortgage
« Reply #15 on: August 09, 2017, 08:13:08 AM »
Boarder42 means with today's low interest rates, ~4% or even lower if you locked in sometime over the past 4 years, you'd have been in a much better financial position if you'd invested those extra mortgage payments. Basically he's arguing (like the many threads that discuss mortgage vs no mortgage) that it's better to invest than pay off the mortgage.

Then, he's calling out the bad advice to "splurge" for accomplishing paying off the mortgage.

It's splitting hairs.

Paying off a mortgage is a wonderful thing! Congratulations OP! Internet people can get a bit pedantic over what's the ABSOLUTE BEST option vs many other perfectly reasonable paths to FIRE.

To clarify, it's making the minimum payments vs. paying it off early.

lizzzi

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Re: Paid off my mortgage
« Reply #16 on: August 09, 2017, 08:26:59 AM »
Oh, right, DrF.  I just read a lot of boarder42's comments on the DONT Pay Off Your Mortgage thread elsewhere on this site. It is a classic, ongoing discussion with many viewpoints pro and con. I do get it. It will go on forever and we'll never have consensus on that one.

For me, with other money to invest--not just the mortgage payment--my preference is to have a paid-off mortgage. And I love the psychological feeling of owning...really owning..my house and land. It's mine--not the bank's. So I'm on the same page with the OP--it's a great accomplishment, I think. I do get the financial ins and outs and understand why some people vote for keeping a low interest-rate mortgage.

But good grief, on my "splurging" comment--lighten up, people! It doesn't have to be anything big--it could be an ice cream sundae! Sheesh.

SugarMountain

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Re: Paid off my mortgage
« Reply #17 on: August 09, 2017, 10:58:50 AM »
Oh, right, DrF.  I just read a lot of boarder42's comments on the DONT Pay Off Your Mortgage thread elsewhere on this site. It is a classic, ongoing discussion with many viewpoints pro and con. I do get it. It will go on forever and we'll never have consensus on that one.

For me, with other money to invest--not just the mortgage payment--my preference is to have a paid-off mortgage. And I love the psychological feeling of owning...really owning..my house and land. It's mine--not the bank's. So I'm on the same page with the OP--it's a great accomplishment, I think. I do get the financial ins and outs and understand why some people vote for keeping a low interest-rate mortgage.

But good grief, on my "splurging" comment--lighten up, people! It doesn't have to be anything big--it could be an ice cream sundae! Sheesh.

You also can theoretically earn more by having 100% stock portfolio with 0 cash and 0 bonds, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's a good idea.

iowajes

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Re: Paid off my mortgage
« Reply #18 on: August 09, 2017, 11:17:20 AM »


But good grief, on my "splurging" comment--lighten up, people! It doesn't have to be anything big--it could be an ice cream sundae! Sheesh.

Since you suggested one mortgage payment, that is a hell of an ice cream sundae :)


lizzzi

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Re: Paid off my mortgage
« Reply #19 on: August 09, 2017, 11:28:47 AM »


But good grief, on my "splurging" comment--lighten up, people! It doesn't have to be anything big--it could be an ice cream sundae! Sheesh.

Since you suggested one mortgage payment, that is a hell of an ice cream sundae :)

I also said something about "something nice but not too pricey" and "whatever is right for you." Hmmm...the more I think about it, the more I'm getting hungry for ice cream.  : D

TVRodriguez

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Re: Paid off my mortgage
« Reply #20 on: August 09, 2017, 11:35:22 AM »
Congratulations, OP!  We've been mortgage-free for a couple of years now, and we love it.  Since our income has always been variable, it's really nice to have a dedicated lower monthly spending amount.

Vegasgirl

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Re: Paid off my mortgage
« Reply #21 on: August 10, 2017, 06:37:39 AM »
Congratulations !!!  One day we'll be in that club - but not for a while still.

WannaBFree

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Re: Paid off my mortgage
« Reply #22 on: August 10, 2017, 02:07:07 PM »
Congratulations! We paid our mortgage off earlier this year and felt the same way!. We haven't announced it either due to the same reasons as previous posters stated.
It feels better and better once time goes on though - once you start seeing that cash accumulate in your account every month!

YYK

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Re: Paid off my mortgage
« Reply #23 on: August 13, 2017, 02:28:57 PM »
It's splitting hairs.

Paying off a mortgage is a wonderful thing! Congratulations OP! Internet people can get a bit pedantic over what's the ABSOLUTE BEST option vs many other perfectly reasonable paths to FIRE.

Not paying of your mortgage can net you tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of dollars over 30 years depending on the size of the mortgage. I'd hardly call that splitting hairs.
But paying off your mortgage is still a worthwhile achievement as it's leagues ahead of being a consumerist sukka who has no savings and couldn't even imagine paying off the mortgage early.

Feiread1

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Re: Paid off my mortgage
« Reply #24 on: August 26, 2017, 02:29:57 PM »
It's splitting hairs.

Paying off a mortgage is a wonderful thing! Congratulations OP! Internet people can get a bit pedantic over what's the ABSOLUTE BEST option vs many other perfectly reasonable paths to FIRE.

Not paying of your mortgage can net you tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of dollars over 30 years depending on the size of the mortgage. I'd hardly call that splitting hairs.
But paying off your mortgage is still a worthwhile achievement as it's leagues ahead of being a consumerist sukka who has no savings and couldn't even imagine paying off the mortgage early.

Have u been tested by the pain of a 25-50% cut to their portfolio?  To have such convictions that one can expect 7+% returns (4% mortgage plus inflation) for any given time period is pretty bullish, one might say foolishly so. Sure over 30 yrs, but what if it only takes 2 yrs or 5 yrs or 10 yrs to pay off the mortgage? You are so sure of 7+% compounded interest over all those timeframes? Hint: You can't be. Do current stock valuations impact your thinking? They should.

What if you are still investing much more in stocks relative to the extra payments? Still an absolute wrong move for you? What if your 4% mortgage is a higher rate than you'll get from bonds or treasuries? Guess what, it is. Are u 100% stocks or do u have a percent in bonds making 2%? Hmm does that make sense?

Congrats to those with paid off mortgages. That extra cash flow invested going forward and during the next market dump will more than make up for the difference. Not to mention the peace of mind of owning your home, and reduced overhead. You'll know u made the right choice (not that you're doubting) when the market dives, you lose your job unexpectedly, you're hit with a big emergency expense, etc. There's value in safety.

boarder42

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Re: Paid off my mortgage
« Reply #25 on: August 27, 2017, 09:56:34 AM »
It's splitting hairs.

Paying off a mortgage is a wonderful thing! Congratulations OP! Internet people can get a bit pedantic over what's the ABSOLUTE BEST option vs many other perfectly reasonable paths to FIRE.

Not paying of your mortgage can net you tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of dollars over 30 years depending on the size of the mortgage. I'd hardly call that splitting hairs.
But paying off your mortgage is still a worthwhile achievement as it's leagues ahead of being a consumerist sukka who has no savings and couldn't even imagine paying off the mortgage early.

Have u been tested by the pain of a 25-50% cut to their portfolio?  To have such convictions that one can expect 7+% returns (4% mortgage plus inflation) for any given time period is pretty bullish, one might say foolishly so. Sure over 30 yrs, but what if it only takes 2 yrs or 5 yrs or 10 yrs to pay off the mortgage? You are so sure of 7+% compounded interest over all those timeframes? Hint: You can't be. Do current stock valuations impact your thinking? They should.

What if you are still investing much more in stocks relative to the extra payments? Still an absolute wrong move for you? What if your 4% mortgage is a higher rate than you'll get from bonds or treasuries? Guess what, it is. Are u 100% stocks or do u have a percent in bonds making 2%? Hmm does that make sense?

Congrats to those with paid off mortgages. That extra cash flow invested going forward and during the next market dump will more than make up for the difference. Not to mention the peace of mind of owning your home, and reduced overhead. You'll know u made the right choice (not that you're doubting) when the market dives, you lose your job unexpectedly, you're hit with a big emergency expense, etc. There's value in safety.

Lots of flawed logic statements here. First a mortgage is based on money from a fixed date and time meaning the expected returns are upwards of 10% on avg over 30 years vs the 4% on mortgage but wait that's wrong too bc their is a mortgage interest tax deduction so that 4% drop considerably depending on you tax situation. 3rd a mortgage cannot be treated like bonds bc it is not easily rebalanced into equities in a down turn.  4th you really can never get the lost gains back over time I don't give a crap if you paid cash for the damn house it's a waste of your green soldiers. Paying down faster or all cash at today's rates has always been a HUGE inhibitor to the purpose of this forum. It's worse than not bringing you lunch to work not mowing your own lawn not biking to work and using a dryer combined in most instances and it takes 0 life effort to choose to put those funds into vtsax vs a house. All those other things require life effort
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LessIsLess

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Re: Paid off my mortgage
« Reply #26 on: August 28, 2017, 08:56:25 AM »
For wasteful people, it makes sense to pay off their mortgages.  Otherwise, the money would just go to waste.  For the FIRE crowd who walk or bike to save a buck, I don't see the need.  You're addicted to saving and are responsible.  Just dump the excess cash into a mutual fund and watch the pile grow while you sleep.

boarder42

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Re: Paid off my mortgage
« Reply #27 on: August 28, 2017, 09:24:03 AM »
It's splitting hairs.

Paying off a mortgage is a wonderful thing! Congratulations OP! Internet people can get a bit pedantic over what's the ABSOLUTE BEST option vs many other perfectly reasonable paths to FIRE.

Not paying of your mortgage can net you tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of dollars over 30 years depending on the size of the mortgage. I'd hardly call that splitting hairs.
But paying off your mortgage is still a worthwhile achievement as it's leagues ahead of being a consumerist sukka who has no savings and couldn't even imagine paying off the mortgage early.

Have u been tested by the pain of a 25-50% cut to their portfolio?  To have such convictions that one can expect 7+% returns (4% mortgage plus inflation) for any given time period is pretty bullish, one might say foolishly so. Sure over 30 yrs, but what if it only takes 2 yrs or 5 yrs or 10 yrs to pay off the mortgage? You are so sure of 7+% compounded interest over all those timeframes? Hint: You can't be. Do current stock valuations impact your thinking? They should.

What if you are still investing much more in stocks relative to the extra payments? Still an absolute wrong move for you? What if your 4% mortgage is a higher rate than you'll get from bonds or treasuries? Guess what, it is. Are u 100% stocks or do u have a percent in bonds making 2%? Hmm does that make sense?

Congrats to those with paid off mortgages. That extra cash flow invested going forward and during the next market dump will more than make up for the difference. Not to mention the peace of mind of owning your home, and reduced overhead. You'll know u made the right choice (not that you're doubting) when the market dives, you lose your job unexpectedly, you're hit with a big emergency expense, etc. There's value in safety.

also the value you are placing in safety is misplaced with a 100% paid off house you MAY be a bit safer than the person with money in stocks but if you're in the process of paying a house down over time you are less safe for all the risks you are talking about than the person who is stashing money in the market ... even if the market drops 50% the investor in vtsax will have more money to ride out the downturn and job loss than a person with a partially paid off house and no job.
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FINate

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Re: Paid off my mortgage
« Reply #28 on: August 28, 2017, 09:37:10 AM »
Oh, right, DrF.  I just read a lot of boarder42's comments on the DONT Pay Off Your Mortgage thread elsewhere on this site. It is a classic, ongoing discussion with many viewpoints pro and con. I do get it. It will go on forever and we'll never have consensus on that one.

For me, with other money to invest--not just the mortgage payment--my preference is to have a paid-off mortgage. And I love the psychological feeling of owning...really owning..my house and land. It's mine--not the bank's. So I'm on the same page with the OP--it's a great accomplishment, I think. I do get the financial ins and outs and understand why some people vote for keeping a low interest-rate mortgage.

But good grief, on my "splurging" comment--lighten up, people! It doesn't have to be anything big--it could be an ice cream sundae! Sheesh.

You also can theoretically earn more by having 100% stock portfolio with 0 cash and 0 bonds, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's a good idea.

It also reinforces the bogus idea that spending money is a reward. The same applies to food...stop treating it as a reward. Doesn't mean you can enjoy what you buy or eat, but stop conditioning yourself to think of consumption as a treat, stop being a tool of the advertising industry.

SugarMountain

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Re: Paid off my mortgage
« Reply #29 on: August 29, 2017, 03:35:39 PM »
Ironically, it turns out I didn't successfully pay off my mortgage.  The credit union screwed up the wire transfer and didn't tell me, I discovered a week or so later when I still had the money in the bank and my mortgage balance was the same.  In the meantime, another normal payment went through so while the credit union wanted to go ahead with the wire transfer I told them not to since the amount would be wrong. What I'd really like to do is ditch our account with them.  I mean a bank basically has 3 functions these days: keep your money safe, transfer money in and out as necessary, and report on it.  They failed at two out of three.  After I figured out that the transfer never went through, I was on vacation and life has gotten in the way, so I haven't pulled the "payoff amount" and set up another wire transfer. 

And now I might not, as we are thinking about making a real estate investment so now I'm holding onto the cash for that possibility.

Feiread1

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Re: Paid off my mortgage
« Reply #30 on: August 31, 2017, 08:39:57 PM »
It's splitting hairs.

Paying off a mortgage is a wonderful thing! Congratulations OP! Internet people can get a bit pedantic over what's the ABSOLUTE BEST option vs many other perfectly reasonable paths to FIRE.

Not paying of your mortgage can net you tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of dollars over 30 years depending on the size of the mortgage. I'd hardly call that splitting hairs.
But paying off your mortgage is still a worthwhile achievement as it's leagues ahead of being a consumerist sukka who has no savings and couldn't even imagine paying off the mortgage early.

Have u been tested by the pain of a 25-50% cut to their portfolio?  To have such convictions that one can expect 7+% returns (4% mortgage plus inflation) for any given time period is pretty bullish, one might say foolishly so. Sure over 30 yrs, but what if it only takes 2 yrs or 5 yrs or 10 yrs to pay off the mortgage? You are so sure of 7+% compounded interest over all those timeframes? Hint: You can't be. Do current stock valuations impact your thinking? They should.

What if you are still investing much more in stocks relative to the extra payments? Still an absolute wrong move for you? What if your 4% mortgage is a higher rate than you'll get from bonds or treasuries? Guess what, it is. Are u 100% stocks or do u have a percent in bonds making 2%? Hmm does that make sense?

Congrats to those with paid off mortgages. That extra cash flow invested going forward and during the next market dump will more than make up for the difference. Not to mention the peace of mind of owning your home, and reduced overhead. You'll know u made the right choice (not that you're doubting) when the market dives, you lose your job unexpectedly, you're hit with a big emergency expense, etc. There's value in safety.

also the value you are placing in safety is misplaced with a 100% paid off house you MAY be a bit safer than the person with money in stocks but if you're in the process of paying a house down over time you are less safe for all the risks you are talking about than the person who is stashing money in the market ... even if the market drops 50% the investor in vtsax will have more money to ride out the downturn and job loss than a person with a partially paid off house and no job.

My logic may be flawed if you believe all your assumptions, which are not true for many people. This issue is not black or white. Assumptions made at the peak of a record bull run in the stock market are even more suspect. You are assuming they are in a 30 yr mortgage, assuming they are in the beginning third of that mortgage paying lots of interest that's deductible, assuming they have a tax rate that it even matters. You are assuming the stock market doesn't correct significantly, or enter a many year period of flat returns, or negative returns, or that they can't pay it off before any of those scenarios. Your solution is just cash out your stock portfolio after a 50% drop if you lose your job or have an emergency? Yeah you'll have to and basically any money taken out at that point erases the chances of your strategy coming out ahead within a short or mid term time frame. Having a big pile of money in stocks is a great goal and I think most of your money should head that way. My point is that for some, diverting SOME cash to pay off a mortgage and actually paying it off, provides a safety net of cash flow a stock portfolio will take many years to equal. Stock funds aren't even tappable in an emergency without huge penalties (actual at the time and those realized by money pulled out during a pullback not able to benefit from the stock market recovering).

Maybe ones risk tolerance changes as they start to near a stash large enough to almost cover expenses. Cash flow is the goal ultimately, whether liquidating stocks or collecting dividends or rent from an investment property or whatever. Many have mortgages or housing expenses that are 1/4 to 1/3 of their salary. Maybe that's high for this forum, but that's the reality for many people in many housing markets. That's a lot of cash to free up and not something that will make sense for everyone to pay to a bank for decades more than necessary. Your outlook only makes sense as a dogmatic view like you present if you are extremely bullish on the stock market and believe that past performance not only represents future performance, but that those returns will be steady for basically all future timeframes. Sorry, not buying the black or white picture that this doesn't ever make sense. I think it makes sense for many.

boarder42

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Re: Paid off my mortgage
« Reply #31 on: September 12, 2017, 12:40:30 PM »
It's splitting hairs.

Paying off a mortgage is a wonderful thing! Congratulations OP! Internet people can get a bit pedantic over what's the ABSOLUTE BEST option vs many other perfectly reasonable paths to FIRE.

Not paying of your mortgage can net you tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of dollars over 30 years depending on the size of the mortgage. I'd hardly call that splitting hairs.
But paying off your mortgage is still a worthwhile achievement as it's leagues ahead of being a consumerist sukka who has no savings and couldn't even imagine paying off the mortgage early.

Have u been tested by the pain of a 25-50% cut to their portfolio?  To have such convictions that one can expect 7+% returns (4% mortgage plus inflation) for any given time period is pretty bullish, one might say foolishly so. Sure over 30 yrs, but what if it only takes 2 yrs or 5 yrs or 10 yrs to pay off the mortgage? You are so sure of 7+% compounded interest over all those timeframes? Hint: You can't be. Do current stock valuations impact your thinking? They should.

What if you are still investing much more in stocks relative to the extra payments? Still an absolute wrong move for you? What if your 4% mortgage is a higher rate than you'll get from bonds or treasuries? Guess what, it is. Are u 100% stocks or do u have a percent in bonds making 2%? Hmm does that make sense?

Congrats to those with paid off mortgages. That extra cash flow invested going forward and during the next market dump will more than make up for the difference. Not to mention the peace of mind of owning your home, and reduced overhead. You'll know u made the right choice (not that you're doubting) when the market dives, you lose your job unexpectedly, you're hit with a big emergency expense, etc. There's value in safety.

also the value you are placing in safety is misplaced with a 100% paid off house you MAY be a bit safer than the person with money in stocks but if you're in the process of paying a house down over time you are less safe for all the risks you are talking about than the person who is stashing money in the market ... even if the market drops 50% the investor in vtsax will have more money to ride out the downturn and job loss than a person with a partially paid off house and no job.

My logic may be flawed if you believe all your assumptions, which are not true for many people. This issue is not black or white. Assumptions made at the peak of a record bull run in the stock market are even more suspect. You are assuming they are in a 30 yr mortgage, assuming they are in the beginning third of that mortgage paying lots of interest that's deductible, assuming they have a tax rate that it even matters. You are assuming the stock market doesn't correct significantly, or enter a many year period of flat returns, or negative returns, or that they can't pay it off before any of those scenarios. Your solution is just cash out your stock portfolio after a 50% drop if you lose your job or have an emergency? Yeah you'll have to and basically any money taken out at that point erases the chances of your strategy coming out ahead within a short or mid term time frame. Having a big pile of money in stocks is a great goal and I think most of your money should head that way. My point is that for some, diverting SOME cash to pay off a mortgage and actually paying it off, provides a safety net of cash flow a stock portfolio will take many years to equal. Stock funds aren't even tappable in an emergency without huge penalties (actual at the time and those realized by money pulled out during a pullback not able to benefit from the stock market recovering).

Maybe ones risk tolerance changes as they start to near a stash large enough to almost cover expenses. Cash flow is the goal ultimately, whether liquidating stocks or collecting dividends or rent from an investment property or whatever. Many have mortgages or housing expenses that are 1/4 to 1/3 of their salary. Maybe that's high for this forum, but that's the reality for many people in many housing markets. That's a lot of cash to free up and not something that will make sense for everyone to pay to a bank for decades more than necessary. Your outlook only makes sense as a dogmatic view like you present if you are extremely bullish on the stock market and believe that past performance not only represents future performance, but that those returns will be steady for basically all future timeframes. Sorry, not buying the black or white picture that this doesn't ever make sense. I think it makes sense for many.

there are very very tiny one off scenarios in which a mortgage at today's interest rates make sense to pay down from a financial standpoint.  all you posed was a bunch of market gloom and doom we're at all time highs bull shit without throwing down any math to back it up.  I dont care if your mortgage is 50% of you take home pay ... if you're funneling the other 25% of your money afet expenses into your mortgage vs the markets you WILL be worse off in the event of a 50% crash than the guy who did not.  assuming its not 100% paid off prior to the 50% crash.  banks dont care if you have been pumping extra in ... the minute you stop making payments you are in violation of the agreement. 

you should probably go read the montains of mathmatical evidence on mortgage paydown that have been discussed forever and a day here before you just start talking about freeing up cash flow and all the other nonsense in this post.
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Lmoot

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Re: Paid off my mortgage
« Reply #32 on: September 12, 2017, 01:19:07 PM »
Recasting a paid down mortgage,  is a thing. And often times it is free.

boarder42

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Re: Paid off my mortgage
« Reply #33 on: September 12, 2017, 01:50:53 PM »
Recasting a paid down mortgage,  is a thing. And often times it is free.

This doesnt change the fact that you still have to make payments. 
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JohnGalt79

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Re: Paid off my mortgage
« Reply #34 on: September 12, 2017, 03:43:47 PM »


there are very very tiny one off scenarios in which a mortgage at today's interest rates make sense to pay down from a financial standpoint.  all you posed was a bunch of market gloom and doom we're at all time highs bull shit without throwing down any math to back it up.  I dont care if your mortgage is 50% of you take home pay ... if you're funneling the other 25% of your money afet expenses into your mortgage vs the markets you WILL be worse off in the event of a 50% crash than the guy who did not.  assuming its not 100% paid off prior to the 50% crash.  banks dont care if you have been pumping extra in ... the minute you stop making payments you are in violation of the agreement. 



Why would you assume they stop making payments? 

With a conservative house/mortgage, a solid emergency fund of 6 months of expenses in savings, and the willingness to go hustle and get another job(s)... even lower paying, it seems like there is a very good chance that the person would be able to continue making payments.

boarder42

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Re: Paid off my mortgage
« Reply #35 on: September 12, 2017, 05:01:56 PM »


there are very very tiny one off scenarios in which a mortgage at today's interest rates make sense to pay down from a financial standpoint.  all you posed was a bunch of market gloom and doom we're at all time highs bull shit without throwing down any math to back it up.  I dont care if your mortgage is 50% of you take home pay ... if you're funneling the other 25% of your money afet expenses into your mortgage vs the markets you WILL be worse off in the event of a 50% crash than the guy who did not.  assuming its not 100% paid off prior to the 50% crash.  banks dont care if you have been pumping extra in ... the minute you stop making payments you are in violation of the agreement. 



Why would you assume they stop making payments? 

With a conservative house/mortgage, a solid emergency fund of 6 months of expenses in savings, and the willingness to go hustle and get another job(s)... even lower paying, it seems like there is a very good chance that the person would be able to continue making payments.

And when that 6 months is up the person who was pumping money into stocks vs their house still has more money  regardless of the size of the crash unless it's total and then who cares if you paid off your house or invested. 

The safety net is shorter and smaller for a person paying down a mortgage. You can't do math any other way.

Tell yourself whatever you have to to sleep better at night thinking you're decreasing risk. My personal favorite is that a leprechaun riding a unicorn will save me.

Or learn the math and understand it and make a better decision.

Open your mind. Get outside your comfort zone. And read into everything on these forums about it and make the best decision for 90%+ of cases.  I used to be on the other side of this debate until I listened to the math. By paying down a mortgage you're betting on green while everyone investing is betting on black and red. And it's actually much worse odds than that.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2017, 05:07:27 PM by boarder42 »
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JohnGalt79

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Re: Paid off my mortgage
« Reply #36 on: September 12, 2017, 06:10:55 PM »


there are very very tiny one off scenarios in which a mortgage at today's interest rates make sense to pay down from a financial standpoint.  all you posed was a bunch of market gloom and doom we're at all time highs bull shit without throwing down any math to back it up.  I dont care if your mortgage is 50% of you take home pay ... if you're funneling the other 25% of your money afet expenses into your mortgage vs the markets you WILL be worse off in the event of a 50% crash than the guy who did not.  assuming its not 100% paid off prior to the 50% crash.  banks dont care if you have been pumping extra in ... the minute you stop making payments you are in violation of the agreement. 



Why would you assume they stop making payments? 

With a conservative house/mortgage, a solid emergency fund of 6 months of expenses in savings, and the willingness to go hustle and get another job(s)... even lower paying, it seems like there is a very good chance that the person would be able to continue making payments.

And when that 6 months is up the person who was pumping money into stocks vs their house still has more money  regardless of the size of the crash unless it's total and then who cares if you paid off your house or invested. 

The safety net is shorter and smaller for a person paying down a mortgage. You can't do math any other way.

Tell yourself whatever you have to to sleep better at night thinking you're decreasing risk. My personal favorite is that a leprechaun riding a unicorn will save me.

Or learn the math and understand it and make a better decision.

Open your mind. Get outside your comfort zone. And read into everything on these forums about it and make the best decision for 90%+ of cases.  I used to be on the other side of this debate until I listened to the math. By paying down a mortgage you're betting on green while everyone investing is betting on black and red. And it's actually much worse odds than that.

You don't answer a question?


Car Jack

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Re: Paid off my mortgage
« Reply #37 on: September 12, 2017, 07:32:08 PM »
Congrats on the mortgage pay off.  As a guy who paid mine off long ago, having been burned "investing" before, my question to those who tried to talk me into investing instead of paying off the mortgage, I'd give them a chance.  I asked every time "What guaranteed investment can I make that will make me more than paying off the mortgage?".  The answer was always "blank stare".  There's nothing wrong with getting the financial advantage of not paying mortgage interest when there are other potential ways to make more money.  If you're not willing to take the risk, then don't.

MasterStache

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Re: Paid off my mortgage
« Reply #38 on: September 13, 2017, 04:53:33 AM »
First of all big congrats for paying off the mortgage. It's quite an accomplishment and you should be happy.

To address the investing vs paying off house there really isn't a right answer. Over a 30 year time period (the average time period of a mortgage) the odds are greatly in favor of the investor having a considerable amount of more money. That's not a guarantee of course as it depends on a number of factors. I say doing either is better than spending your money on consumerist BS. So I won't chide anyone for paying off their mortgage early.

So far investing in the market has been a far batter choice for us over the last several years. Heck I would still be working had we decided to pay down the house instead. Yet I still toggle with the ideal of chipping away more on the mortgage. So I understand the mentality of those who do decide to pay it off early. 

boarder42

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Re: Paid off my mortgage
« Reply #39 on: September 13, 2017, 06:12:48 AM »


there are very very tiny one off scenarios in which a mortgage at today's interest rates make sense to pay down from a financial standpoint.  all you posed was a bunch of market gloom and doom we're at all time highs bull shit without throwing down any math to back it up.  I dont care if your mortgage is 50% of you take home pay ... if you're funneling the other 25% of your money afet expenses into your mortgage vs the markets you WILL be worse off in the event of a 50% crash than the guy who did not.  assuming its not 100% paid off prior to the 50% crash.  banks dont care if you have been pumping extra in ... the minute you stop making payments you are in violation of the agreement. 



Why would you assume they stop making payments? 

With a conservative house/mortgage, a solid emergency fund of 6 months of expenses in savings, and the willingness to go hustle and get another job(s)... even lower paying, it seems like there is a very good chance that the person would be able to continue making payments.

And when that 6 months is up the person who was pumping money into stocks vs their house still has more money  regardless of the size of the crash unless it's total and then who cares if you paid off your house or invested. 

The safety net is shorter and smaller for a person paying down a mortgage. You can't do math any other way.

Tell yourself whatever you have to to sleep better at night thinking you're decreasing risk. My personal favorite is that a leprechaun riding a unicorn will save me.

Or learn the math and understand it and make a better decision.

Open your mind. Get outside your comfort zone. And read into everything on these forums about it and make the best decision for 90%+ of cases.  I used to be on the other side of this debate until I listened to the math. By paying down a mortgage you're betting on green while everyone investing is betting on black and red. And it's actually much worse odds than that.

You don't answer a question?


YOU WILL RUN OUT OF MONEY AT SOME POINT FASTER ALL THINGS BEING EQUAL IF YOU DONT FULLY PAY DOWN YOUR MORTGAGE AND WERE FUNNELING EXTRA MONEY THAT WAY.  THATS THE ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION.  GUESS WHAT IN AN ECONOMIC DOWN TURN YOU CANT FIND SIDE HUSTLES AS EASILY AS YOU COULD IN A NORMAL MARKET ENVIRONMENT.  BUT THE PERSON WITH A PARTIALLY OVER PAID DOWN MORTGAGE WILL BE IN WORSE SHAPE NEEDING TO FIND THIS WORK FASTER. 
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boarder42

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Re: Paid off my mortgage
« Reply #40 on: September 13, 2017, 06:14:01 AM »
First of all big congrats for paying off the mortgage. It's quite an accomplishment and you should be happy.

To address the investing vs paying off house there really isn't a right answer. Over a 30 year time period (the average time period of a mortgage) the odds are greatly in favor of the investor having a considerable amount of more money. That's not a guarantee of course as it depends on a number of factors. I say doing either is better than spending your money on consumerist BS. So I won't chide anyone for paying off their mortgage early.

So far investing in the market has been a far batter choice for us over the last several years. Heck I would still be working had we decided to pay down the house instead. Yet I still toggle with the ideal of chipping away more on the mortgage. So I understand the mentality of those who do decide to pay it off early.

the menality is flawed ... investing hasnt just been a better choice the last several years investing with mortgages at todays rates has ALWAYS been a better choice since we started tracking the markets. 
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SugarMountain

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Re: Paid off my mortgage
« Reply #41 on: September 13, 2017, 10:44:20 AM »
First of all big congrats for paying off the mortgage. It's quite an accomplishment and you should be happy.

To address the investing vs paying off house there really isn't a right answer. Over a 30 year time period (the average time period of a mortgage) the odds are greatly in favor of the investor having a considerable amount of more money. That's not a guarantee of course as it depends on a number of factors. I say doing either is better than spending your money on consumerist BS. So I won't chide anyone for paying off their mortgage early.

So far investing in the market has been a far batter choice for us over the last several years. Heck I would still be working had we decided to pay down the house instead. Yet I still toggle with the ideal of chipping away more on the mortgage. So I understand the mentality of those who do decide to pay it off early.

the menality is flawed ... investing hasnt just been a better choice the last several years investing with mortgages at todays rates has ALWAYS been a better choice since we started tracking the markets.

Depends on the time horizon.  The decade from '99-2009 you'd have been better off paying off your mortgage. 

boarder42

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Re: Paid off my mortgage
« Reply #42 on: September 13, 2017, 11:01:55 AM »
First of all big congrats for paying off the mortgage. It's quite an accomplishment and you should be happy.

To address the investing vs paying off house there really isn't a right answer. Over a 30 year time period (the average time period of a mortgage) the odds are greatly in favor of the investor having a considerable amount of more money. That's not a guarantee of course as it depends on a number of factors. I say doing either is better than spending your money on consumerist BS. So I won't chide anyone for paying off their mortgage early.

So far investing in the market has been a far batter choice for us over the last several years. Heck I would still be working had we decided to pay down the house instead. Yet I still toggle with the ideal of chipping away more on the mortgage. So I understand the mentality of those who do decide to pay it off early.

the menality is flawed ... investing hasnt just been a better choice the last several years investing with mortgages at todays rates has ALWAYS been a better choice since we started tracking the markets.

Depends on the time horizon.  The decade from '99-2009 you'd have been better off paying off your mortgage.

Cherry picking years I'd have to do the math on this window. But the 30 year I'm period isn't up. But this is like saying one time  saw a guy hit a blackjack so I'm gonna bet on that all the time. Poor use of your money time and life effort to pay a mortgage down
« Last Edit: September 13, 2017, 11:18:30 AM by boarder42 »
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farmecologist

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Re: Paid off my mortgage
« Reply #43 on: September 13, 2017, 11:23:44 AM »
Congrats on paying off the mortgage!   It was an awesome feeling when we paid ours off!

However, why do these threads *always* have to digress into a 'which is better' debate.   Not to piss people off...but it gets rather annoying after a while.  There are many, many other threads on here to debate that issue.   Just congratulate the person and move on....


MasterStache

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Re: Paid off my mortgage
« Reply #44 on: September 13, 2017, 12:55:38 PM »
First of all big congrats for paying off the mortgage. It's quite an accomplishment and you should be happy.

To address the investing vs paying off house there really isn't a right answer. Over a 30 year time period (the average time period of a mortgage) the odds are greatly in favor of the investor having a considerable amount of more money. That's not a guarantee of course as it depends on a number of factors. I say doing either is better than spending your money on consumerist BS. So I won't chide anyone for paying off their mortgage early.

So far investing in the market has been a far batter choice for us over the last several years. Heck I would still be working had we decided to pay down the house instead. Yet I still toggle with the ideal of chipping away more on the mortgage. So I understand the mentality of those who do decide to pay it off early.

the menality is flawed ... investing hasnt just been a better choice the last several years investing with mortgages at todays rates has ALWAYS been a better choice since we started tracking the markets.

I understand the mentality, I didn't say I agree with it. Yes I agree investing has always been the better choice recent low rates. But I don't always assume folks pay off their mortgage early purely as a financial benefit over investing. Again I grapple with the mental aspects from time to time but looking at the Math always erases those conflicts.

Lmoot

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Re: Paid off my mortgage
« Reply #45 on: September 13, 2017, 12:55:57 PM »
farmecologist Because some people conflate not making the maximum possible return and making a terrible financial desicion. Nevermind that plenty of people have recovered from the "destructive" act of paying off a house, to otherwise go on to live a well-financed and fulfilling life.

hoosier

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Re: Paid off my mortgage
« Reply #46 on: September 13, 2017, 02:01:56 PM »
I've paid off a mortgage twice now.  Both felt great but were fairly uneventful...call the bank to get the payoff amount and move the money online.  We live in a very LCOL area so houses are relatively cheap.

The first time I bought a fixer upper for 60K.  We put down a large down payment 20K and put my wife's entire (crappy LCOL 1st and 2nd year teacher's) paycheck on the house every month because we knew she would stop working when we had kids.  We were 24 when we had it paid off.

About 5 years later we sold the house for 110K and bought another for 145K.  We didn't have enough cash to comfortably cover the gap so we had to go to the bank and "try" to get a mortgage.  I went to 3 or 4 banks and all of the conversations with the loan officer were somewhat awkward and went like this:

Me:  I need a mortgage.
LO:  mmK, and how much is the purchase price of the house?
Me:  145K
LO:  mmK, and do you currently own a home.
Me:  Yes, well, no...kinda...it's sale pending.
LO:  mmK, and what is the selling price?
Me:  110K
LO:  mmk, and how much equity do you have in that home?
Me:  All of it.
LO:  No, I mean what is your current mortgage balance?
Me:  No mortgage.
LO:  Really?  Well, that makes things easy.  How much are you wanting to borrow?
Me:  About 35K
LO:  And for how long....I assume you don't want a 30 year.
Me:  Do you have 5 year mortgages?
LO:  No, the shortest we can do is 9 so we can sell the mortgage.
Me:  I'll have one of those.

Two years later we paid of the the 9 year mortgage. 

No regrets.

boarder42

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Re: Paid off my mortgage
« Reply #47 on: September 13, 2017, 03:18:09 PM »
Congrats on paying off the mortgage!   It was an awesome feeling when we paid ours off!

However, why do these threads *always* have to digress into a 'which is better' debate.   Not to piss people off...but it gets rather annoying after a while.  There are many, many other threads on here to debate that issue.   Just congratulate the person and move on....

b/c you will get destroyed in these forums for driving an SUV to work or paying for someone to mow your lawn etc. but something as simple as not paying down a mortgage which takes 0 life energy or effort gets the run around with people making statements about feelings like its some personnal decision that is different from someone paying to have their lawn mowed. I dont pay to have my lawn mowed.  but if i did i could easily make the arguement that i am preserving my life from a risk of dieing mowing my lawn due to one of any number of things including increasing risk of skin cancer from being outside.  the probability that lawn mowing kills me is about the same as the stock market not outperforming a low fixed rate mortgage.

back to has this forum gone soft we should be congratulating people for buying boats the deserve and SUVs and McMansions.  hiring a grounds keeper ... you're awesome you earned it! ... doesnt it feel good to have all that.

awful
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JohnGalt79

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Re: Paid off my mortgage
« Reply #48 on: September 14, 2017, 04:51:44 AM »
There wasn't that much left, so I just did it.  It is actually a little anti-climactic.

Congratulations, SugarMountain!

What do you think were the big keys for you in hitting this awesome financial milestone? 

Any tips or lessons learned?  Anything you would do differently if you were starting the journey again?

Well done.  Seriously, well done.

farmecologist

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Re: Paid off my mortgage
« Reply #49 on: September 14, 2017, 09:17:54 AM »
farmecologist Because some people conflate not making the maximum possible return and making a terrible financial desicion. Nevermind that plenty of people have recovered from the "destructive" act of paying off a house, to otherwise go on to live a well-financed and fulfilling life.

I understand both sides of the argument, believe me.  However, folks constantly berating people for paying off their mortgage, often in a somewhat patronizing way, really does get old after a while.  It always seems to be the same group of people doing this...they just can't seem to let it go....*ever*.  I won't mention names..they know who they are...

Anyway, this will be my last comment about it here.