How wealthy are you compared to other Americans?

[bwall]

I found this link to be very informative and cause for lots of reflection.

I assume that most of those who hit ER must be in the top 10%?

http://www.vox.com/2014/9/18/6453661/do-you-have-2385036-no-then-you-re-not-in-the-wealthiest-1

What %-tile are you (approx)?  Did you think you were that high?

[Philociraptor]

We haven't hit the top 90% yet, but we hope to reach it by the end of the year!

[boarder42]

Including home we are at 30%. I expect to be around the 10% in 3-4 years

[Zamboni]

Interesting:  the only categories with holdings that increased from 2009 to 2011 were the top 1% and those in the poorest groups.  Most other groups, even the top 4%, had less money in 2011 than in 2009 (remember that 2009 was right after the last big market downward adjustment, so logically at least retirement accounts should have gone up for everyone from 2009 to 11.)  Something to think about.

[TheDude]

I read that atricle the other day. I am a little suspect of those numbers. Ive read before you need 8.5mil to be in the top 1%.

According to that we are in the top 30  should be in the top 10 in two years or so.

[Villanelle]

North of 30, south of 10. 

I don't feel like we are that far up the scale since I don't consider anything we do to be extraordinary.  We aren't especially hardcore. 

[devan 11]

Somewhere around 95% in wealth.  Much lower in income. We save beyond our income.

[amberfocus]

The SO and I just recently topped $1M in net worth (thanks to my crazy skyrocketing stock options -- it kinda feels like cheating, but hey, I'll take it!), so we're sitting around the top 5% or so.

I do wish these charts were stratified by age, though. I'd be extremely curious to know how we're doing against other millenials.

[deborah]

I read that atricle the other day. I am a little suspect of those numbers. Ive read before you need 8.5mil to be in the top 1%.

According to that we are in the top 30  should be in the top 10 in two years or so.

It says "money in your name" which is different. Often it is by household, or overall wealth (so it would include your money that is in the name of a trust or company)

[Beric01]

Almost to 50%, at age 24. I wish this data was by both age and income.

I'll never hit the 90th percentile - I don't need that much to live on.

[Emilyngh]

I found this link to be very informative and cause for lots of reflection.

I assume that most of those who hit ER must be in the top 10%?

http://www.vox.com/2014/9/18/6453661/do-you-have-2385036-no-then-you-re-not-in-the-wealthiest-1

What %-tile are you (approx)?  Did you think you were that high?

We have a net worth of $175k, which it looks like puts us in the top 30-40th percent (60-70th percentile). 

 Frankly, I would have guessed this would've put us higher (based on the horror stories you hear of average savings), but I think that age greatly affects where people fall (as it should).  People getting closer to traditional retirement should have a much higher net worth, if due to home equity if nothing else. Eg., even if we save not a penny more, probably our net worth will be about double in around the next 10 years just due to compounding.

[Roland of Gilead]

Cool.  I am going to get a t-shirt that says "we are the 4%"

[grettman]

Here is some census data that does break down net worth by age.  Tab 4.

http://www.census.gov/people/wealth/

[CommonCents]

I'm 10-30%, DH is 7-9% (almost 7%).  Together we're almost 4%.

[frugalecon]

It appears from the Census website that these data are reported at the household level, so it is important to adjust for number of people in the household, as well. Another place to go to estimate your position is: http://wealthometer.org/US/index.html

[Zamboni]

^I like that one.  My self estimate was only 2% off (of course that was after looking at the census data others provided, so I feel like I kind of cheated.)

[Dicey]

Well, we're 1%ers now, but we didn't have this much in 2011. I expect that makes us ersatz 1%ers ;-)

[libertarian4321]

I guess we are the 1%.

Should I expect a bunch of "Occupy" freaks to show up at my door soon?  :)

[Kansas Beachbum]

Cool.  I am going to get a t-shirt that says "we are the 4%"

Order one for me too :-).  It doesn't seem that way, though.  We don't seem, look, act that much different than most people we know...but I guess that's probably why we're in the top 4%.

[GW]

In the 50% area, at age 29. Hope by 40 to be in the top 4%!

[TurtleMarkets]

Most people I know have less than 0 net wealth. Really I know very few people that have positive numbers if you include a mortgage.

[Emilyngh]

Most people I know have less than 0 net wealth. Really I know very few people that have positive numbers if you include a mortgage.

Yup, me too.   And pretty much I hang out with educated people with very good jobs (although fairly young).   I'll never forget at a dinner party where the whole table was talking about how much we all loved Mint for tracking expenses, and not thinking I blurted out how I loved watching my net worth grow with it, and ohhhh the table went silent as everyone turned to me and commented about how they don't use it for that b/c their net worth will never be positive.  Seriously, we were the only couple at the table with a positive net worth (and a 6 figure one at that, although they don't know this).

 I don't think any of them have large cc debt, but they all have school loans, car loans, own houses that they didn't put much down on (and talk about upsizing from in the next few years) take vacations, wear nice clothes, pay for hair cuts and coloring, eat out and drink a great deal, etc.   But, they also are all 2 income families (we are just 1 income which is right around what each of them individually make), so I know they could pay things down if they focused on it.    I think they've just given up, don't want to live like they're "poor," etc.   The sad thing is that b/c of this, they may be really forcing themselves to remain poor.

Just today one of them mentioned that since having a baby they can't keep up with housework and are getting a maid.    They both have flexible schedules allowing them to be home many afternoons and both home summers and they have a net worth that is so negative that they don't imagine ever digging it out; of course, they need to pay someone else to clean their floors for them.

[Exflyboy]

Interesting.. And from a MM perspective it misses the point a little.. then again so do we.

To explain, we all want a large stash and thus we focus on net worth. But the reason we do this is to predict how much income that will generate when we retire.

In other words if you have $1.3M, that's great but only because it will generate 39 or $52k income (depending on if your comfortable with 3% or 4% draw rate).

But what if you have a pension?.. lets say you have a stash of $1M plus a $40k pension (hopefully guaranteed) that you are currently drawing upon.. Well your now drawing up to $80k per year!

back calculating this is now worth the equivalent of $2M.

Now of course the tricky part is what is your equivalent net worth for a pension that happens a few years from now. I guess you could divide your expected payout by (1.x)^y.. Where x is the assumed inflation rate and y is the number of years before you can get your hands on the pension.

So for me using the above adjustment criteria we are at 4% without the pension and 1% with.

Frank

[Spartana]

Hmmm... I've never calculated my total net worth because I get a government pension (plus a small military disability benefit from the VA) and not sure how to annuitize that to figure out what it's cash value would be worth.  But have a paid off house is worth over $400K so probably somewhere between 30 and 10%.   

[Lkxe]

Interesting.. And from a MM perspective it misses the point a little.. then again so do we.

To explain, we all want a large stash and thus we focus on net worth. But the reason we do this is to predict how much income that will generate when we retire.

In other words if you have $1.3M, that's great but only because it will generate 39 or $52k income (depending on if your comfortable with 3% or 4% draw rate).

But what if you have a pension?.. lets say you have a stash of $1M plus a $40k pension (hopefully guaranteed) that you are currently drawing upon.. Well your now drawing up to $80k per year!

back calculating this is now worth the equivalent of $2M.

Now of course the tricky part is what is your equivalent net worth for a pension that happens a few years from now. I guess you could divide your expected payout by (1.x)^y.. Where x is the assumed inflation rate and y is the number of years before you can get your hands on the pension.

So for me using the above adjustment criteria we are at 4% without the pension and 1% with.

Frank

 This question actually came up for us the day before OP. I figure his annuity backwards from his life expectancy at 7% but don't count it in my net worth.(cause his death eliminates that income flow) So he's FI and 4% but I lag at 30%.

edit-post got lost

[Exflyboy]

Hmmm... I've never calculated my total net worth because I get a government pension (plus a small military disability benefit from the VA) and not sure how to annuitize that to figure out what it's cash value would be worth.  But have a paid off house is worth over $400K so probably somewhere between 30 and 10%.   

If you are drawing your pension now simply divide your annual payout by 0.04 (4%).. for example, if you get $40,000 per year.. 40,000/0.04 =$1M.. plus the value of your house.

Typically we exclude the value of the house and call it the "liquid net worth".. of course you can't turn you pension into a lump sum like that so its certainly not liquid.. i.e you couldn't go out and buy a $1m boat for example.

[Spartana]

Hmmm... I've never calculated my total net worth because I get a government pension (plus a small military disability benefit from the VA) and not sure how to annuitize that to figure out what it's cash value would be worth.  But have a paid off house is worth over $400K so probably somewhere between 30 and 10%.   

If you are drawing your pension now simply divide your annual payout by 0.04 (4%).. for example, if you get $40,000 per year.. 40,000/0.04 =$1M.. plus the value of your house.

Typically we exclude the value of the house and call it the "liquid net worth".. of course you can't turn you pension into a lump sum like that so its certainly not liquid.. i.e you couldn't go out and buy a $1m boat for example.

Oh and I so wanted that million dollar boat!

Thanks for the info. I only get about $1400/month combined Gov pension and VA so will be easy to figure and probably not change my ne tworth by too much - that plus house and a little bit of stash moolah.

[Exflyboy]

Hmmm... I've never calculated my total net worth because I get a government pension (plus a small military disability benefit from the VA) and not sure how to annuitize that to figure out what it's cash value would be worth.  But have a paid off house is worth over $400K so probably somewhere between 30 and 10%.   

If you are drawing your pension now simply divide your annual payout by 0.04 (4%).. for example, if you get $40,000 per year.. 40,000/0.04 =$1M.. plus the value of your house.

Typically we exclude the value of the house and call it the "liquid net worth".. of course you can't turn you pension into a lump sum like that so its certainly not liquid.. i.e you couldn't go out and buy a $1m boat for example.

Oh and I so wanted that million dollar boat!

Thanks for the info. I only get about $1400/month combined Gov pension and VA so will be easy to figure and probably not change my ne tworth by too much - that plus house and a little bit of stash moolah.

So 1400 a month is $420,000 by the above calculation method....:)

Frank

[sleepyguy]

Including our home (which I assume the numbers are), we're in the 9%  Both 36.  Projecting to be in the 4% range before hanging it up or working part-time.

[Spartana]

Hmmm... I've never calculated my total net worth because I get a government pension (plus a small military disability benefit from the VA) and not sure how to annuitize that to figure out what it's cash value would be worth.  But have a paid off house is worth over $400K so probably somewhere between 30 and 10%.   

If you are drawing your pension now simply divide your annual payout by 0.04 (4%).. for example, if you get $40,000 per year.. 40,000/0.04 =$1M.. plus the value of your house.

Typically we exclude the value of the house and call it the "liquid net worth".. of course you can't turn you pension into a lump sum like that so its certainly not liquid.. i.e you couldn't go out and buy a $1m boat for example.

Oh and I so wanted that million dollar boat!

Thanks for the info. I only get about $1400/month combined Gov pension and VA so will be easy to figure and probably not change my ne tworth by too much - that plus house and a little bit of stash moolah.

So 1400 a month is $420,000 by the above calculation method....:)

Frank

Thanks for doing the math for me - not sure I remember how after all these years ER'd and not having to actually do any math :-)! I guess with that, the house (which I plan to sell soon and downsize), and the bit of cash I have I'd probably be in the 8% range if I could cash it all in - maybe higher after paying for selling costs and taxes - so 9% probably.

[MsRichLife]

Wow...That is illuminating. We are the 1%. It's weird that I don't feel like we are. Probably because we live well below our means.

[bwall]

One thing that the video at the end of the article points out is how income and net worth are (or aren't) related. That is what I found most interesting--that the author confirms what MMM has been saying for years; you eventually reach a point where you will NEVER run out of money. And, depending on how much you have, this could be negative for society.

MMM plans to give away 90% of his net worth upon his passing. What are you planning to do when your time here on Earth is over? Give to heirs? Charity? Something else?

[Spartana]

One thing that the video at the end of the article points out is how income and net worth are (or aren't) related. That is what I found most interesting--that the author confirms what MMM has been saying for years; you eventually reach a point where you will NEVER run out of money. And, depending on how much you have, this could be negative for society.

MMM plans to give away 90% of his net worth upon his passing. What are you planning to do when your time here on Earth is over? Give to heirs? Charity? Something else?

For me, with my pension dying with me, anything I have left that doesn't go to re-pay any old-person-care I may need before death will go first to my younger sister (unless I re-marry) or a charity (Best Friends Animal Sanctuary in Kanab, Utah) if she dies before me. Already have a Will drawn up with that listed. Plan to eventually get a Revocable Living Trust once I settle down in a new house (if I ever do) to avoid probate.