Author Topic: Mustachian Relocation Guide  (Read 302189 times)

waltworks

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Re: Mustachian Relocation Guide
« Reply #300 on: December 27, 2021, 05:57:39 PM »

Questions:
  • For others in a similar situation, or, if you have been in a similar situation where you can choose to live almost anywhere, how did you actually make the decision?

We narrowed down by places that had sufficient mountain biking/skiing (ie, a LOT of those) and then looked at 2010 census data to figure out where education was high and obesity was low. That narrowed it down to 2 places, so we bought houses in both (10 years ago that was not so hard to do) and just test-lived. This was before our kids were old enough for school. Then we sold the house in the place we didn't decide to live.

In hindsight, I would have waited until the kids were in school. It turns out the school system where we ended up, while very highly rated, is super dysfunctional, and the people in our town, while nice enough, aren't nerdy enough. We have no close friends because we're just too weird. The other place would probably have been better, but we sold that house and now the kids are well into their school careers so moving is a lot harder.

-W

walkingmiller

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Re: Mustachian Relocation Guide
« Reply #301 on: December 29, 2021, 11:20:48 AM »
All very helpful answers! Thank you!

It completely makes sense that the people component is probably one of the most important ones and is also the hardest to judge without actually living there. I'll try the FB group route. One of my main hobbies (trail running) tends to have clubs or groups in a lot of cities, so I should be able to join a FB group for each place and be able to see how they interact with each other and with newcomers. I might also be able to join in on a group run during a visit.

Thank you again for the help! 

Archipelago

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Re: Mustachian Relocation Guide
« Reply #302 on: August 08, 2022, 11:27:57 AM »
Would it be proper to bump this thread and keep it going?

I feel like this could be a super helpful guide if kept up to date and more submissions were taken.

Edit: silly me, this thread is already stickied :P

Archipelago

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Re: Mustachian Relocation Guide
« Reply #303 on: August 08, 2022, 12:37:19 PM »
City, State, Country: Connecticut, USA
Born and raised in CT, lived there for 27 years. I have lived in various parts of the state and spent time in almost all of it. I lived in Litchfield county up through (public) high school, went to a CT public university, then lived in Manchester CT for 5 years. I'm doing a little write up of all of CT because it's a small state!

If a suburb, distance from city:
CT is right between NYC and Boston. From Hartford, it's a 2.5 hr drive to NYC or 1.75 hr drive to Boston (both depending on traffic). Driving to NYC is significantly worse than driving to Boston. For NYC, there is Metro North railroad that has a few lines from CT and NY. The New Haven line is most relevant to CT. Taking the train takes a little more effort to drive to the station, parking, logistics, etc. but once on the train it takes =/< time to arrive in New York. And factoring in the cost of gas, wear & tear, and parking in NYC, you come out ahead taking the train.

Average housing cost (specify rent or buy): High variance depending on location in the state. Generally gets more expensive closer to New York (Fairfield county)
Fairfield county starter homes range $450,000-$600,000+ depending on the town/city
Hartford area starter homes range $300,000-$450,000 depending on the town/city
The more rural parts of the state can be $250,000-$400,000 depending on the town/city

There is high variance (even with towns that are RIGHT next to each other) because each town has its own schools, police, fire dept, municipality, etc. Local property taxes are done up by town, not county. The nicer suburbs tend to have higher property taxes, and these figures are very much dependent by the quality of the school system. Property taxes are high in the state overall, but the quality of the schools is excellent overall. CT is consistently top 5 for public education in the U.S.

Indoor Hobbies:
None in particular, but you better have some because winters get cold, snowy, and long. Cold and snowy isn't so bad for Nov, Dec, or Jan. But then February rolls around and it's bitter cold. By the time March comes around, there's not as much snowfall but it's definitely cold and there's dirty snow all over the ground. In April, you can bet on it being cold...still. May and June are when it actually warms up.

Outdoor Hobbies: Natural beauty
CT has tons of natural beauty and outdoor activities. This is one of the most underrated aspects of the state. Most places in CT you are 1 hr or less from the beach and 1 hr or less from rural/agricultural areas. It's got hiking (albeit hills, not mountains), trails, biking, skiing, rivers, lakes, and fantastic state parks. Public and state taxes cover the upkeep for many of these places, so they are 'free' when you visit.

Weather (High Temps, Low Temps, Seasons, Sun): Wonderful seasonality
If you like seasons, CT is great. It has all four distinct seasons. Spring brings ice melt and warming of the earth. Summer is warm and humid, can get fairly hot July through September, more moderate near the coast. Fall is stunning and lasts late September through mid-November. Winter lasts late November through mid-April. Yes, it can feel like winter for 4-5 months out of the year. Snowfall is not like the Great Lakes region or Buffalo NY, it's more like a handful of major snowstorms per year with lighter snowfall and/or rain in between. Be prepared to hunker down in the winter, shovel snow, put down ice melt, and scrape off cars many times if you don't have a garage.

Favorite things: Public education, natural beauty, excellent standard of living

Least favorite things: Taxes, major state financial problems, wealth disparity, weak cities, lacking job growth, crowded in certain areas
Problems! Every state has got them. Here are Connecticut's. First problem, there is an underfunded pension liabilities crisis that was compounded for decades which is causing significant strain on the state budget. This is a 40-50 year problem estimated at $100 billion. Multiple generations of taxpayers are on the hook paying into it for many, many years. See Illinois for a similar pension crisis. Second problem, CT has weak cities. Hartford, New Haven, Bridgeport, Waterbury do not support career growth, are considered undesirable, and young professionals are moving to other states because of better job opportunities and better cities. Stamford is doing well but you might as well count it in New York with how close it is to the city. Third problem, wealth disparity. There are extremely wealthy areas, and there are poverty areas literally blocks away. Yale-New Haven. Greenwich-Bridgeport. West Hartford-Hartford. This causes people with money to live in the suburbs and leaves poorer people in the cities. Then the cities struggle. This isn't a specific problem in CT, it's all over the world. But it exists in CT and isn't helping the state thrive and attract young people.

When you pay state income tax, high property tax, sales tax, gas tax, plastic bag tax, car purchase tax, registration tax, it feels like you are taxed hard on everything and to me it becomes questionable about whether you are getting adequate value out of what you pay.

'Must Try': Pizza
New Haven style pizza is world renowned.

Stupid ordinances/laws:
Not really applicable, but the pension crisis I wrote about earlier is a real threat to the future of the state.

Words of wisdom/Advice:
Connecticut is a wonderful place to raise a family...if you have the money to live in the desirable suburbs.

Sustainability options (gardening, solar, etc):
Lots of houses putting up solar in recent years, good gardening seasons, very good corn, etc.

Any questions about specific areas, I'm happy to help!

stoaX

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Re: Mustachian Relocation Guide
« Reply #304 on: August 10, 2022, 05:46:06 AM »
Nice write up about Connecticut!   Although I don't live there now, I have spent about 26 years when I add it all up. I do miss the pizza, lobster, rocky shoreline and the bucolic hills up around Salisbury and Kent.

baconschteam

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Re: Mustachian Relocation Guide
« Reply #305 on: August 15, 2022, 08:45:05 AM »

Questions:
  • For others in a similar situation, or, if you have been in a similar situation where you can choose to live almost anywhere, how did you actually make the decision?

We narrowed down by places that had sufficient mountain biking/skiing (ie, a LOT of those) and then looked at 2010 census data to figure out where education was high and obesity was low. That narrowed it down to 2 places, so we bought houses in both (10 years ago that was not so hard to do) and just test-lived. This was before our kids were old enough for school. Then we sold the house in the place we didn't decide to live.

In hindsight, I would have waited until the kids were in school. It turns out the school system where we ended up, while very highly rated, is super dysfunctional, and the people in our town, while nice enough, aren't nerdy enough. We have no close friends because we're just too weird. The other place would probably have been better, but we sold that house and now the kids are well into their school careers so moving is a lot harder.

-W

My wife and I are still figuring out where we'd like to settle down and we often bounce back and forth between idealizing a place that has cheap land, outdoor things to do, and will still have good weather in 50 years (further North), or staying near family/friends (in NJ) at the expense of the more ideal setting. We plan on having children in a couple of years - and here we bounce back and forth again, imagining that having family around will be really good for them, but being FI earlier (through geographic arbitrage) will also be really good for them (and us, obviously).

It sounds like you've chosen a path where your nuclear family is somewhat isolated from close family friends. If this is true, how is it going? Do you end up taking a lot of long trips to visit people? Do you feel lonely?

ChpBstrd

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Re: Mustachian Relocation Guide
« Reply #306 on: September 03, 2022, 01:34:13 PM »
Request: Syracuse, NY

Looks good on the stats, but why are housing prices so low?

lifeisshort123

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Re: Mustachian Relocation Guide
« Reply #307 on: September 04, 2022, 05:10:30 PM »
Request: Syracuse, NY

Looks good on the stats, but why are housing prices so low?

High property taxes are a big part of the reason why to pay for the excellent schools. Also, miserable weather.  But, there are lots of pros as well.

lifeandlimb

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Re: Mustachian Relocation Guide
« Reply #308 on: September 06, 2022, 08:23:32 AM »
Hi,

Great thread. Would anyone be able to offer 2022 updates on the following?

Portland, OR

Seattle, WA

Oakland or Berkeley, CA

Huntington Beach (or other Orange County), CA


My partner and I are interested in:
- non-snowy winters and sun in other seasons
- accessibility to recreational cycling (road or light gravel)
- diverse dining and culture/events options
- affordability in renting or buying

Captain FIRE

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Re: Mustachian Relocation Guide
« Reply #309 on: December 02, 2022, 07:56:01 AM »
I see Juneau is listed as a wish.  Is that something people really want?  I lived there as a child so my knowledge is limited, but given the small population (30k), I recognize that I may still be the best source on the forums.

uniwelder

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Re: Mustachian Relocation Guide
« Reply #310 on: December 02, 2022, 08:40:04 AM »
I would love to have Merida, MEX added. Also love to hear about any places in MEX. Seriously considering relocating there post FIRE.

I too am Merida curious.  Hopefully we'll be spending extended time there in the next couple years, so I'll report back.

I just noticed these when reading back a little.  My wife is Mexican and spent about 4 years in Merida while in grad school.  She absolutely loves it there, while I do not, though we may buy a house there if conditions are right.  I'll see if I can get her to sit down with me to fill out a full relocation guide review. 

Off the top of my head---

Merida, Mexico.  Population 1 million with international airport.  Located on the Yucatan peninsula about 5 hours west of Cancun. 

One of the safest places in Mexico.  My wife has no worries walking around at 2:00 AM there.  People have faith in the police.  Known as neutral territory for cartel family members.

Its super hot.  I've never experienced the summer heat and plan not to.  Winter is in the 80's high and 60's low.  I find it amusing that when I wake up wearing shorts and a t-shirt, people outside are wearing jackets and gloves.

You can buy a nice house for 100k USD. Damn, it has gotten quite expensive since Covid and work-from-home.  Tons of foreigners buying up houses.  Lots of cultural events, music at night in the streets, opera and theatre tickets for $2-10.  Located 15 minutes from the beach, though its not nice like the Cancun area.  Nice archeological site between the city and beach with an unusual and beautiful above ground cenote.  People (foreigners mostly) drown there about 1x per week because they ignore the danger sign posted about the underwater current at the deep end, but the rest is only 3-4 feet deep.    The cenote has been permanently closed because of the increased number of cruise ships to the port and the aquaculture was suffering.

Probably 10% of the population is foreign, but its not a touristy place. It has gotten quite touristy downtown with lots of expensive trendy restaurants.  You won't find people speaking English on the street.  The people speak very slowly, so it's easier to understand them if your Spanish isn't that good.  There is also an English language library with English-Spanish conversation sessions for people to learn.  My wife spent a lot of time there.

Excellent medical care.  One of her doctors used to travel between Merida and Miami for his practice, charging ridiculous sums in the US and working in Mexico as part charity and part vacation.  She constantly criticizes the lack of good medical care in the US, regardless of the outrageous cost.  We recently came back from a 2 week medical trip there and the level is healthcare is amazing compared to what we're used to back home.

If @sisto or @SimpleCycle have any specific questions, my wife would be happy to answer them.  She loves talking about Merida.

edited to update-- our pre vs post covid travel experience to Merida.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2024, 08:48:00 AM by uniwelder »

Luckydawg

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Re: Mustachian Relocation Guide
« Reply #311 on: January 25, 2023, 01:07:39 PM »
Request: Syracuse, NY

Looks good on the stats, but why are housing prices so low?

High property taxes are a big part of the reason why to pay for the excellent schools. Also, miserable weather.  But, there are lots of pros as well.

City, State, Country: Syracuse, NY, USA
If a suburb, distance from city: I lived in the Westcott Street neighborhood, which is a 10 minute drive or bike ride from downtown. It is about a 50/50 mix between a collegetown and artsy neighborhood.
Average housing cost (specify rent or buy): Fairly cheap, and it seems very likely to stay that way. Nice, 3+ bedroom homes are available for under $200k. Apartments are affordable, just stay away from the University by at least a mile due to higher pricing. Taxes are insane at over 2% (this is within top 5 highest rates for US metro areas). Definitely make sure you have good insulation.
Indoor Hobbies: Similar to the other NY rustbelt cities. Lots and lots of eating and drinking options, with a huge diversity of ethnic foods. Syracuse University sports are big, as well as a few minor league teams. Decent live music scene, and plenty of gyms/libraries. Nothing too unique aside from that…
Outdoor Hobbies: Lots of beautiful parks to explore, including bike paths around Onondaga Lake. Green Lakes State Park is neat. Decent winter sports options, although the nearest downhill skiing are a half hour away and are small mountains. It’s located on the Erie Canal bike path which connects Buffalo to Albany. Excellent farmers market, especially in the summer. The Finger Lakes, Adirondacks, Catskills and Lake Ontario are all fun destinations, but are far away enough that you have to stay at least a while to justify the trip.
Weather (High Temps, Low Temps, Seasons, Sun): Summers get fairly hot but very humid. There aren’t too many days above 90 degrees. Winters are notorious, and have high winds and at least a few days of the year around 0 degrees. Snowstorms can pile it multiple feet deep, which usually melts halfway before long and creates a deep slush.
Favorite things: Best seasons are summer and fall. The city is adding bike infrastructure every year, even though they still have lots of work to do. It is very possible to walk or bike to find everything you need to live well. It is never hard to find music to see or other stuff to do. Wegmans Grocery Store is fantastic. Also, good Asian and Middle Eastern markets. I don’t shop there, but after reading this forum I think I should mention that there is a Costco.
Least favorite things: Interstates cut straight through the city in areas, and create a depressing vibe (environmental justice issues, rundown/neglected neighborhoods). There is awareness of this, however, and a solid movement that wants to address the issue. There are some rough areas, and issues associated with homelessness. Other issues: the climate is rough on infrastructure and there are lots of potholes, development has started to sprawl, it is a little too car-centric for me, and geographically it is a bit isolated.
'Must Try': Check out the farmers market, and see if there are any local festivals going on. Aside from that, walk some parks and go try some restaurants.
Stupid ordinances/laws: None that I’m aware of… although NY State is definitely perceived as having a corrupt government.
Words of wisdom/Advice: Great city to go to college in (like I did) due to the poor weather from about November through March/April. That makes it easier to study indoors. Otherwise, it’s an extremely good value considering its diversity, dense downtown, nightlife and so on. I moved away, but I do miss the conveniences of its affordability and size. Also, don't underestimate the drinking culture here...
Sustainability options (gardening, solar, etc): Great climate for gardening and it’s not too hard to find space for it. It’s a pretty short harvesting window, being so far north. Tax credits and exemptions are available for solar panels. It isn’t the sunniest place, obviously, but lots of people do it. There’s a small local food co-op. SUNY ESF (NY State’s Environmental College) is located in town and has a ton of great sustainability resources.

billygoatjohnson

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Re: Mustachian Relocation Guide
« Reply #312 on: June 10, 2023, 06:50:57 AM »

I confess I've never been to Minneapolis and know nothing about it. I've never been black, either.

But surely, there must be something else that makes life worth living besides having the same incomes as white people? The title of that piece is preposterous.

I would have remained blissfully unaware of the problems of blacks in the Twin Cities if I didn't have any black friends. But a woman I used to work with (she was my manager actually) and have remained friends with is now employed by the City of Minneapolis and it's her job to analyze and address the racial inequities. I have learned from her, and other black friends, to at least try to see things from their point of view.

I lived in Saint Paul/Mps for 2 years. Blacks would yell at me for walking down their side of the street, throw stuff at my car while I'm driving down the road, roommate saw them taking his car while he was delivering food, my brother in law was beat up by them after a sports game, I could go on for hours. Many places and streets I avoided in the evening.

I'd say its a bad place for whites sense the crime was committed against us. Moved out. Haven't been back even as tourists.

Log

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Re: Mustachian Relocation Guide
« Reply #313 on: June 10, 2023, 02:00:06 PM »
Hi,

Great thread. Would anyone be able to offer 2022 updates on the following?

Portland, OR

Seattle, WA

Oakland or Berkeley, CA

Huntington Beach (or other Orange County), CA


My partner and I are interested in:
- non-snowy winters and sun in other seasons
- accessibility to recreational cycling (road or light gravel)
- diverse dining and culture/events options
- affordability in renting or buying

Disclaimer just to get a sense of where I'm coming from: my preferences are based largely around ease of car-free living, and a thriving arts/cultural scene. As far as places you're thinking of, Seattle or the Bay Area are totally my speed, Orange County is anathema to me.

With climate change, Portland winters are getting a little more volatile (snow 1-2x per winter rather than snow once every couple of years). Summers (good weather lasts ~mid-May to mid-October) are sunny and mostly pleasant, but outlier heat waves are getting longer and more frequent.

I can't give significant details on the cycling, but it's obviously good, going off Portland's general reputation as a bike city and an outdoorsy place.

Portland punches way above it's weight class for food, and is pretty good for arts/culture. The food scene is super dynamic and has a huge range from great food carts to high end restaurants. Beer/coffee are obviously incredible here. Other towns around Oregon are so small that it's the obvious stop alongside Seattle for any touring act coming through the PNW. Local arts are getting pinched by cost of living—the indie types might want to move somewhere cheaper, and the ambitious/status-seeking types are trying to follow the money and escape to Seattle/SF/the east coast. The silver lining is that the local artists who stay in Portland are staying because they really love it here.

Affordability is a sticking point, but it's not as extreme as many of the alternative walkable/bikeable urban cities in the US, and some policy progress is starting to slope in the direction of increased housing production to catch up to all the growth of the last decades. I would feel comfortable that while rents may be high compared to wages here right now, they're not going to proceed through the roof over the coming years, as growth has stalled since COVID, and housing production has become an issue the state legislature is willing to tackle to over-ride local NIMBYism.

Portland is undeniably dealing with some growing pains, but I think things are looking up. There's been a very powerful de-growth fantasy of Portland remaining the cheap, scrappy little city it was decades ago, but I think enough people have been woken up (or just been replaced by migrants) that the voterbase is finally confronting the 21st century. A ballot measure recently passed to reform the city charter and make the government function more like a proper city instead of LARPing as a small town, so the government should hopefully become a little more professional and functional as those changes kick in. If you're attracted to what Portland used to be, you might be disappointed. If you like the sound of a place that's on a trajectory toward being a little more like Seattle or Minneapolis, the coming years will be a very exciting time in Portland.

Sandi_k

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Re: Mustachian Relocation Guide
« Reply #314 on: June 10, 2023, 07:20:39 PM »
Hi,

Great thread. Would anyone be able to offer 2022 updates on the following?


Oakland or Berkeley, CA


My partner and I are interested in:
- non-snowy winters and sun in other seasons
- accessibility to recreational cycling (road or light gravel)
- diverse dining and culture/events options
- affordability in renting or buying

I lived in Oakland for 20+ years, and I've worked in Berkeley since 1987. I would say that they meet your first three criteria, but affordability has taken a huge hit.

The house we bought in 1992 Oakland - and spent 20 years rehabbing - we sold for $400k in 2011. It is 2,000 SF, 3 BRm/1.5 Ba.

It is now estimated to be worth over $1M - and I can assure you, it is NOT a million dollar house.

If you move a little further out, you can probably do OK. Other Bay Area suburbs that I might recommend: Walnut Creek; Concord or Pleasant Hill; Pleasanton; Benecia; Livermore.

lifeandlimb

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Re: Mustachian Relocation Guide
« Reply #315 on: June 22, 2023, 01:32:11 PM »
Good to know, thank you @Sandi_k  and @Log!

We're going to put off making a moving decision for another couple years, but these are good things to keep in mind. Personally I think the bay area of California is one of the most beautiful natural places I've seen—I'm a big fan of those green and yellow rolling hills, maybe even more than deeply lush, heavily wooded areas.

Sandi_k

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Re: Mustachian Relocation Guide
« Reply #316 on: June 22, 2023, 01:41:45 PM »
Good to know, thank you @Sandi_k  and @Log!

We're going to put off making a moving decision for another couple years, but these are good things to keep in mind. Personally I think the bay area of California is one of the most beautiful natural places I've seen—I'm a big fan of those green and yellow rolling hills, maybe even more than deeply lush, heavily wooded areas.

Ha! They are only green and lush from January-March. And then it's yellow and brown.

But I love the hills and valleys, too. Downtown Pleasanton is charming, and close in enough that you can access BART. Livermore is another 10 miles out, no BART, but a charming walkable downtown, and a good restaurant scene.

If you're retiring and not commuting, you can choose to live just a bit further out, and still have access at non-commute times. ;)

Arbitrage

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Re: Mustachian Relocation Guide
« Reply #317 on: December 21, 2023, 11:37:51 AM »
  • City, State, Country: Bellingham, WA

  • If a suburb, distance from city: N/A
    Bellingham is its own hub city.  However, it is nestled between two major metro areas: Seattle (about 1 hour to the north suburbs, 90 miles to downtown) and Vancouver, Canada (25 miles to Canadian border, and 50 miles or so to Vancouver).

  • Average housing cost (specify rent or buy):Houses are currently around $700k median; rents apparently $1800-2000
    Housing cost is a pretty big issue here for those who aren't bringing their money from elsewhere.  Local pay isn't high, and there isn't much in the way of good-paying local industry.  I work (part-time) remotely, and relocated from California, so it wasn't a big deal for us, but I can certainly empathize with those who aren't transplants.
    Nearby smaller cities (Ferndale and Lynden are the next tier of cities ~20,000 people, then unincorporated areas like Sudden Valley and a bunch of pretty small towns) are cheaper, but still not really cheap.

  • Indoor Hobbies:
    TL;DR Don't move to Bellingham just for what you can do indoors - it's perfectly fine but not what is driving people to live here.  Okay, the beer scene is great (most microbreweries per capita in Washington) and the food scene is good for a town this size, as there is a sizeable college in town - Western Washington University.  Certainly, I wouldn't move here if I were a true foody, but you can find plenty of variety, and Vancouver isn't far for more "authentic" ethnic food.  There are a few museums, which I haven't been to yet.  There are two separate walkable downtown-like areas, which are both quite nice and charming in their own ways.  We've got a bouldering gym, a trampoline park, a "ninja" gym, and a climbing wall at the YMCA, but no true full-fledged indoor climbing gym or great indoor public swimming.  They are in the planning stages of building a full climbing gym right now, but likely still a few years off.

  • Outdoor Hobbies:Ohhh lordy, where to begin
    The outdoor activities and the scenery.  This is where it's at.  3 large lakes basically in town, including one that's part of a public park and kept free of housing development and motorized boating.  There are public access points to all of them.  Lots of paddleboarding, kayaking, surfski activity.  Not many sand beaches, but there are a couple on the lakes, some on the river, and some small rocky/sandy beaches just south of Bellingham Bay. 

    Bellingham Bay and nearby - also quite accessible with several public parks.  Speaking mainly from a kayaking perspective - you have several choices, and you won't need to face big crowds or lug your gear very far.  Access points just down the road at a couple of state parks as well. 

    Mountains, essentially in town, with endless hiking overlooking all manner of postcard-worthy views.  Larrabee State Park is the only point where the Cascades meet the ocean, and has lots of trails to take advantage of that. 

    Mountain biking deserves a special shout-out.  It's a big part of the city culture.  Galbraith Mountain has world-class biking and can be easily ridden to from anyone living on the eastern side of town.  I do so frequently.  New trails are frequently popping up there, but more raw trails in various surrounding mountains as well.  Unlike many of the other true mountain biking destinations, we have the luxury of great trails + city co-located.

    Bigger mountains just a short drive away.  Skiing/snowboarding at Mount Baker - snowiest resort in the USA, albeit usually of the heavier PNW variety since it's not very high elevation.  The resort has its own character: you're not going to find high-speed chairs, apres-ski bars, or top-tier amenities, but you're also not going to find crowds, lift lines, or expensive lift tickets.  The terrain itself is pretty good, but you've got to keep an eye on the snow quality; we'll get southerly atmospheric rivers from time to time that will warm up the entire area and drop rain on the ski resort, degrading the snow and causing flooding concerns near the river basins.  Backcountry skiing is reasonably popular here as well. 

    Ski to Sea race - this annual multisport race embodies a lot of what Bellingham has to offer - 8 people and 7 sports in a relay from Mount Baker Ski Area to Bellingham Bay.  Cross-country and downhill skiing, running, road biking, river canoeing, cyclocross biking, and sea kayaking all in one race. 

    City parks - so many gems.  Not only official parks, but also designated open space areas that are kept wilder.  The city and county also prioritize maintaining our green space, watershed, tree cover and "park equity" across less privileged areas, so there's little fear of it all getting developed and paved over.

    National parks, 3 within driving distance - Olympic, North Cascades, and Mount Rainier.  I confess that we haven't visited yet.

    San Juan Islands - the ferry terminal in Anacortes is about a 45-minute drive.  Lots to see and do in the islands. 

    Canadian proximity - Vancouver and the North Shore, Squamish, and Whistler are all pretty close.  The Nexus pass (we're still on the waiting list) makes crossing the border trivial.

    Basically, it's a great place for nearly any outdoor activity aside from surfing, scuba, and sunbathing (all of the shelter from the islands keeps our waves quite small, and the water is coooold).  You don't need to go far for most of these activities, either, and won't be fighting crowds. 

  • Weather (High Temps, Low Temps, Seasons, Sun):Four seasons, with a long, drizzly, dark winter
    Part of the reason we moved here was for milder weather and climate change resilience.  There's no getting around it, though - you don't get a ton of sun here.  It's one of the least sunny cities in the country.  I grew up in an overcast Midwest city and find that it doesn't bother me that much as long as I keep making an effort to get outside throughout the winter.  The minimal sun from late fall through early spring definitely gets to some people, though.  Lots of people recommend SAD lamps and Vitamin D.

    What might surprise people is how dry and sunny the summer is here.  It's truly glorious most of the time, and in my opinion about the best in the entire country unless you really like true beach weather.  It can occasionally be spoiled by wildfire smoke blowing in from Canada, Eastern WA, or Oregon.  Temps are usually in the high 60s or 70s, with generally low humidity, but we'll still get down to the 50s overnight so things don't get stuffy aside from the occasional heat wave.  This past summer, I don't think we hit 90 a single day, and were only in the 80s maybe 10 days or so.

    Early fall is great as well, as we start to mix in the occasional shower, crisp mornings, and the leaves change.  Around late October the weather changes quickly, and from late fall until early spring it's a lot of the same - highs mostly in the 40s, lows mostly in the upper 30s to low 40s, lots of cloud cover, lots of drizzle with the occasional harder rain.  Certainly can get windy as well.  One nice thing that you won't see on the weather reports or forecasts unless you look closely at the hour-by-hour - we'll often get "sun breaks" during the day, which represent a great opportunity to get outside and get that Vitamin D. 

    Snow is rare, but from time to time the winds will come down through the Fraser River Valley and bring some true winter weather.  It rarely stays accumulated, but icy roads can happen and the snow removal capability of the city isn't good. 

  • Favorite things:Other than outdoor activities?
    Lots of favorite things already described, so I'll go for some non-nature stuff:
    For a North American city, it's very bike-friendly.  There are no speed limits above 35 in the city.  There is a city-wide pedestrian and bicycle network plan that is regularly updated, being implemented over time, and we see regular improvements.  If and when the network is completed, it'll really be something.  While there of course are the pockets of resistance, bike culture is tolerated well.  I ride an e-bike around town year-round, and can get from my (fairly centrally located) house to basically anywhere in the city within 20 minutes.  It is quite hilly, so the electric assist is definitely appreciated.

    There is no real traffic.  Okay, the long-time residents will complain of how bad the traffic is getting, but if you have the perspective of basically any city of size - there is no real traffic.  You can be stuck at a couple of light cycles at the hotspots in town, and of course if there's a crash or other temporary issue the freeway or roads will get backed up, but we don't ever have to plan around traffic unless we're heading to Seattle.  Mind you, since I e-bike everywhere, this wouldn't be an issue for me anyhow, but of course when I do drive the family around it's such a boon to my psyche after spending the previous 20 years in traffic-choked California metros.

    The schools are good, but in a different way than where we moved from in California.  There is far less emphasis on good test scores and piling on homework, and far more emphasis on critical thinking and the 'whole student.'  Our kids certainly get more attention to what they need here, and are much happier in school, but I'm sure they won't do as well on standardized tests had we not moved.  The local university, WWU, is a very strong teaching school, and the public schools here benefit from that.

  • Least favorite things:Homelessness issues
    Like many places all along the West Coast (and elsewhere), we have a problem with homelessness, and related problems with property crime and public drug use.  Now, I'm not going to blame those related problems completely on the homeless population, but to deny the connections is silly, IMO.  You will certainly find loads of bikes being torn down in the open in homeless camps.  Camps are routinely rotated around town, then eventually cleared out by the sheriffs.  You'll see the broken down RVs parked around, lots of panhandling, and mentally ill people wandering across busy streets or shouting.  There are plenty of efforts to help, but the problem is bigger than the help thus far.

    Another thing to mention - traveling by plane can be complicated.  The local airport, BLI, is a fantastic experience to fly through.  However, it only flies commuter jets to Seattle (Alaska), and a few western state destinations via Allegiant and Southwest.  Heading east can be difficult or impossible through BLI.  Internationally, many people will fly through Vancouver, but domestically this usually means finding your way to Sea-Tac.  There are certainly options, but they can be confusing and take some time and effort.  High speed train plans from Vancouver down through Portland are being considered (and I'd personally be thrilled), but don't count on that happening in the next 20 years, if ever. 

  • 'Must Try':Sooo much but this has rambled long enough
    A few things to mention -
    Visiting Picture Lake and Artist Point in the summer
    Hiking Oyster Dome
    Spending a sunny day at Lake Padden
    Walking the Interurban trail and Taylor Dock between Boulevard Park and Fairhaven
    Doing the loop at Stimpson Preserve
    Mountain biking at Galbraith

  • Stupid ordinances/laws:No fluoride in the water
    For whatever reason, Bellingham is one of very few cities in the USA that does not fluoridate their water.  Yes, I know there are people who love that and will point to various studies.  The good thing is that we have excellent drinking water, sourced locally from Lake Whatcom.  The bad news is that you'd better stay on top of your dental care.

    I would be remiss not to mention the political outlook here.  Bellingham is bright blue, but much of Whatcom County is red, bright red in areas. 

  • Words of wisdom/Advice:Truly awesome and gorgeous place to live; but bring your money, your rain gear, and a sun lamp.  I'd be happy if you brought your bike and left your car behind as well.
    I have no regrets about moving here.  You might find yourself getting pretty tired of clouds and chilly dampness come February/March, so some people take a late winter trip to Palm Springs or Arizona to rejuvenate their spirits.

  • Sustainability options (gardening, solar, etc):
    Not going to be world-class here.  Lots of cloud cover, and the growing season isn't very long unless you have a greenhouse.  Solar still works, of course, but you'll need a bigger array. 
« Last Edit: December 23, 2023, 09:29:59 AM by Arbitrage »

Colterha

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Re: Mustachian Relocation Guide - Tulsa
« Reply #318 on: December 25, 2023, 08:11:52 PM »
Hey everyone,

I’m probably breaking some rules here but am looking for community (preferably of the Mustachian variety) in Tulsa, OK.

Just read post #53 of 53 in the email series and I need to find my “urban tribe.”

Is anyone local or can point me in the right direction?