Communications & Tech - The ISP, VoIP and Cellphone Superguide

[Daley]

Good news! Just ran a half hour show thru Hulu plus and it worked just fine! Checked my speedtest utility and Charter did cut me to 3.1 MB download and 0.39 MB upload. But everything is working GREAT and I am feeling pretty good about my decision to downgrade to save $23 a month. Thanks again! Regarding moving my wife to a cheaper plan - I'd have to find an offering with a cheap android, and I am concerned at the price of PTel data plan, since androids can sneakily use a lot of MBs even if not streaming audio or video. Thanks again, IP!

You can usually dig through the settings and neuter most of the bandwidth hogs on Android phones by disabling data fetching in most apps on the wireless network. I haven't made the Android phone jump yet myself, but I've heard others mention that standard Android data usage can be pushed pretty low. There's also apps like Onavo's Data Monitor and Juice Defender that can help gut data usage without resorting to turning off data service on the account. Just tossing that out there.

Also,I just ordered a cheap phone and $10 card from PlatinumTel, so I'll be saving about $23 a month on my cell phone cost.

Hot cha!

[Daley]

You're probably asking, "Daley, you did an honest to goodness serious update on April Fools?" You betcha.

Updated the guide with ISP and DSL recommendations in the Internet Service Provider section, software suggestions for Android smartphones to minimize data usage in the Miscellaneous Hardware & Software section, and added a warning about the importance of data management on prepaid in the Cell Phone section.

[frugalman]

Well today I ported over my Virgin Mobile android ($26.72 per month) to a dumb Sanyo flip phone thru PlatinumTel ($3.33 per month) for a savings of $23.39 per month.  I can feel the savings pour in already, although I am not so glued to my phone looking for email updates etc.  Last week I changed to 3MBS economy service thru Charter for $24.99 per month versus the $47.99 I was paying Charter for 15MBS service.  3MBS seems quite acceptable and streaming Hulu is OK.  I've dumped Netflix and Hulu Plus ($8 a month apiece) but watch Hulu by connecting my laptop via HDMI to my TV.  I'm sticking with a $26.72 a month Virgin Mobile android for my dear wife because she can work it and find and call contacts easily versus a flip phone type of arrangement.  My final frontier comes up when my 2 year Phone Power VOIP expires on August 17.  Unless they offer a renewal bargain, instead of what I paid last time ($272 for 2 years, including $72 of FCC fees etc), I'm thinking hard about getting an OBI100 for $46 one time and connecting it to Google Voice which is free at least thru 2012.  Two issues - one is getting a new number (having to inform friends/family/businesses) and the other is lack of 911 service. I understand that my phone outlets might be "live" to call 911 thru Century Link (former POTS provider) but I'm hesitant to test this out.  Maybe I'll put a dumb phone on one of the wall outlets and see if there is still a dial tone.  If this doesn't work, our two cell phones will have to suffice if we need to call 911.
I.P. thanks again for your service, all of this stuff came about because you got me to think of alternatives..

[Daley]

Well today I ported over my Virgin Mobile android ($26.72 per month) to a dumb Sanyo flip phone thru PlatinumTel ($3.33 per month) for a savings of $23.39 per month.  I can feel the savings pour in already, although I am not so glued to my phone looking for email updates etc.  Last week I changed to 3MBS economy service thru Charter for $24.99 per month versus the $47.99 I was paying Charter for 15MBS service.  3MBS seems quite acceptable and streaming Hulu is OK.  I've dumped Netflix and Hulu Plus ($8 a month apiece) but watch Hulu by connecting my laptop via HDMI to my TV.  I'm sticking with a $26.72 a month Virgin Mobile android for my dear wife because she can work it and find and call contacts easily versus a flip phone type of arrangement.  My final frontier comes up when my 2 year Phone Power VOIP expires on August 17.  Unless they offer a renewal bargain, instead of what I paid last time ($272 for 2 years, including $72 of FCC fees etc), I'm thinking hard about getting an OBI100 for $46 one time and connecting it to Google Voice which is free at least thru 2012.  Two issues - one is getting a new number (having to inform friends/family/businesses) and the other is lack of 911 service. I understand that my phone outlets might be "live" to call 911 thru Century Link (former POTS provider) but I'm hesitant to test this out.  Maybe I'll put a dumb phone on one of the wall outlets and see if there is still a dial tone.  If this doesn't work, our two cell phones will have to suffice if we need to call 911.
I.P. thanks again for your service, all of this stuff came about because you got me to think of alternatives..

Glad to have helped, dude!

A couple parting thoughts for you to consider regarding your possible home phone changes.

1) You get exactly what you pay for, and free service always comes at a price. I've had beautiful calls with GV working flawlessly and I've had days where I've missed calls and couldn't hear squat through GV. Although it's an option, given the fact that I've been using GV since the GrandCentral days and know what it can and cannot do, I just can't take that final step and suggest the service as a home phone replacement, even with an OBi device that makes it seamless and replaces the functionality that was once had using Gizmo5. Consider the hoops that Google has introduced to prevent GV to be used as a primary VoIP provider as deliberate.

2) If you want to take the plunge anyway and convert to GV for the home line, keep in mind a couple bits of info:
a) You can port "mobile phone" numbers into Google for $20. I'm not sure if they support ports from smaller prepaid carriers as they only mention the big ones, but if you can actually get a person with a live pulse in the Googleplex to talk with you, that might be an option. Of course, that means porting your current home phone out of PhonePower to a prepaid carrier and then over from that carrier to Google.
b) Speaking of live pulses... God forbid you need any support if you go GV. You are quite literally on your own.
c) Even if you get a dial-tone on your home POTS line and decide to get the OBi110 with FXO port and you're sold on using GV as your primary home provider, don't rely on it for 911 service. One of the key things with 911 service is to identify where the call is coming from. That can be done with carrier-less cell phones through radio triangulation and GPS using e911. Not so much with a wired dial-tone and no account attached. No caller-ID, no address, no nothing. At least consider grabbing a Sipgate One account and tacking on e911 for $1.90 a month and setting the OBi to route dialing 911 through them. Otherwise, configure the OBi to call your local police dispatch number using this method when 911 is dialed, but they will still be at a loss to know where you are which means anyone calling must keep a cool head and remember to give an address. It's imperfect and still inferior to cell phones, but still a nuts and bolts option to consider.

My heart's finally starting to soften to OBiTALK's ATAs and will finally add them to the hardware list next significant update, but I just don't feel comfortable recommending GV at the usage level they're pushing it for. It's designed to augment pre-existing service, not replace it.

[frugalman]

Thanks IP for your thoughts on OBI100 and Google Voice. I must admit Amazon reviews are stellar five star average for OBI100, and I've read a lot of them and didn't see one complaint about missed calls or can't hear as you have reported. Your comments make me a little hesitant to pull the trigger. My Phone Power also over the past two years has had situations where they couldn't hear me but I could hear them etc. i've found the solution is to power off reset the modem, router and ATA.  I might try the OBI100 anyway, if I don't like it I'd be out $46 and could go back to Phone Power..

[Daley]

Thanks IP for your thoughts on OBI100 and Google Voice. I must admit Amazon reviews are stellar five star average for OBI100, and I've read a lot of them and didn't see one complaint about missed calls or can't hear as you have reported. Your comments make me a little hesitant to pull the trigger. My Phone Power also over the past two years has had situations where they couldn't hear me but I could hear them etc. i've found the solution is to power off reset the modem, router and ATA.  I might try the OBI100 anyway, if I don't like it I'd be out $46 and could go back to Phone Power..

Oh look, I'm about to post another wall of friggin' text.

There's nothing wrong with the OBi ATAs, it's Google Voice specifically and it wouldn't necessarily fall under complaints about the hardware itself. People likely don't complain much because the bar has been set so low with call quality and reliability with modern cell carriers. Fortunately, the OBi can be used with other VoIP providers as well such as Future Nine, VOIPo, or any other provider that allows for traditional open SIP connectivity (even Phone Power, though their ATA support list doesn't include OBi equipment even though it should be fine).

I'm not big on complaining vocally about a free service, but here's the major rubs I've found over the past four years and change with Google Voice:

Call quality can really vary from call to call, far more than regular VoIP, and when there's problems it's rarely limited to a single call as it carries on for a few hours. The problems include but aren't limited to heavy audio compression, half-second-plus audio delays, echo-back of your own voice, conversations where they can hear you but you can't hear them, and full outages where no incoming or outgoing calls could be placed at all. These will be problems that will persist between calls until I just dial directly via F9 and cut Google out of the loop. This isn't to say these are frequent problems, they're relatively rare and don't occur near as frequent as they used to, but they still happen. I also get randomly imposed call caps with GV as well where I've had calls disconnected on the dot at 30, 45, and 60 minute marks (not all the time, just occasionally). Even when GV works "perfectly", there's still little glitchy problems with it like minor to moderate voice delay which leads to talking over each other, occasional difficulty with automated touch-tone and voice menus and dropped number presses, random touch tone noises interjected into conversations from background noises like dog barks, difficulty connecting to some exchanges (especially with 800 numbers), and even worse calls when the connection is VoIP<->GV<->POTS<->VoIP (really bad with overseas call centers). There's also a business close to me that occasionally has problems with their land line during rain which triggers an occasional disconnect message with AT&T at the exchange. Even after the line dries out and they can receive calls again, GV will report the number as disconnected while F9 and P'tel will connect just fine... even after they call me on the GV number and I have to call back.

I've also noticed complaints with family and friends who have signed up more recently with GV that the available pool of numbers around the country are frequently hard used and wind up with a lot of marketing calls and wrong numbers (similar situation to the high churn numbers used by America Movil with Net10, TracPhone and Straight Talk - I actually had to file a complaint with the cops and change my number once with them due to harassing phone calls I was receiving from some idiot who was convinced I stole her friend's cell phone - this is why keeping numbers out of circulation for only two weeks is a bad idea and why you don't chose a prepaid company that is synonymous with the phrase "burner phone"). There's filtering tools with GV to cut down on a lot of that, but stuff like call filtering with name identification confuses a lot of people.

GV is great for a free service, and great for what it provides. And granted, I've never used it with an OBi, so some of the above problems might be minimized given how the OBi connects with GV... I don't know. I also don't mean to pick on GV specifically, as modern phone call reliability has really gone south overall after the major shift to digital networks and even paid-for VoIP has some warts. Google has probably provided me with something like 300+ hours of free long distance over the years (which is why I'm hesitant posting this complaint about free services), but it's been just that... free long distance. I wouldn't have paid for it if they wanted to charge me. So if you're willing to deal with the limitations and overlook the problems and privacy loss to fund their massive advertising machine, go for it... but at least know what you're in for first.

[frugalman]

Thanks, I.P. for the tome on Google Voice.  Obviously you have had a lot of experience with it, the best part is it is free, the worst part is the call quality from time to time.  You needed every bit of the length of your post to tell the story, and I thank you.

I have a friend at work from whom I got the OBI100/GV idea.  He just got his in the mail yesterday, is going to hook it up tonight.  I still have about 4 months before I need to make a decision (my Phone Power expires in August).  I'm going to ask him regularly over the next 3 months how he likes OBI100/GV.  If it was just me, I could live with the problems you described.  I don't talk that much on the phone anyways.  But I have to consider how my dear wife might react to this.  But she does have a 300 minute per month cell phone so if she had to make a call and GV was giving us hiccups, she could use the cell instead.

We probably use about 500 minutes a month with Phone Power.  If they would just reup me for two years for $136 instead of $272, I would probably take that, as overall their service has been very good.  But if it's $272, I'm going to think hard about OBI100/GV.

[Daley]

Here's a great way to think about the free versus paid situation between the two:

Free phone service through Google Voice is kinda like someone advertising all you can drink free beer where 9 out of 10 times, it's a can of PBR, and the other 10% is split 50/50 between Miller High Life and Natty Lite... and all the cans are open. Usually they're fresh and full, sometimes they're warm and flat, sometimes they're half full and there's lipstick or a cigarette butt in there, but it's free. Some people are okay with this even when they can pay the bar $8 and get an unlimited supply of cold High Life in unopened bottles. It might not be the greatest beer and you might get a warm bottle on occasion, but it's better than running any chance of getting a half-drunk can of Natty Lite with someone's Marlboro floating in it... and even if you do? You get to complain to the bartender.

I wouldn't blame you for considering dropping Phone Power at those prices, but it is still a fairly competitive price in the VoIP market. Also don't necessarily view it as a polarizing them or Google only situation. There's other providers that frequently hit the $8-10 a month mark or lower regularly and even provide free equipment and number porting. That said, I am very interested to hear feedback from your friend over the next few months. I still use GV to this day as the primary number for the low-traffic side business despite all the problems, but I know that if it ever becomes serious in the future I'll probably need to port the number out. If calls via the OBi improve the overall call quality/reliability and Google continues to keep the service free, it may provide a second option for myself and others to consider.

Anyway, don't forget that even if you don't have an OBi, you can start trying out GV immediately since it is free and all. Dialing out for calls is just a bit more convoluted. If you find the quality acceptable, you'll already have a four month lead and transition time between numbers without replacing any equipment!

[BenDarDunDat]

-And granted, I've never used it with an OBi, so some of the above problems might be minimized given how the OBi connects with GV... I don't know.

I have and there were times when it was okay, and there were others when it was unusable.  I also live on the east coast and I think that is also causing the extra lag I experience.  I switched over to a pay VOIP service.  It was either that or go back to paying for the landline. 

[Daley]

I have and there were times when it was okay, and there were others when it was unusable.  I also live on the east coast and I think that is also causing the extra lag I experience.  I switched over to a pay VOIP service.  It was either that or go back to paying for the landline.

That answers that question for me then: no improvement, possibly worse. I doubt your physical location was contributing to problems, especially given that Google Data Center in your back yard. It's just the nature of the beast. Thanks Ben!

[dmobley]

@Daley:

Thanks for all the great info! I'm the process of implementing a number of suggestions.

One thing that's not totally clear to me (and it's probably just my own ignorance) is your use of Google Voice. On the one hand, you mention it in your original post and indicate you have two Google Voice numbers. But later, you talk quite a bit about the call quality problems you've noticed with it. Can you be more specific about how exactly you're using it? That is to say, are you giving our primarily your GV number to everyone and using it to ring your home phone (and cell when needed) so you can take calls? Or, are you working to get away from it and using similar features by way of, say, Voipo?

The way you were talking about it, I was almost getting the impression that you could avoid the GV problems by using the number only for incoming calls, but making outgoing calls some other way. However, I don't see how that would avoid the call quality problems whenever you're taking incoming calls.

Anyway, really all I'm after is a slightly better summary of how (or if) you're currently using it, and what you think the best strategy is.

Thanks so much!

[Daley]

One thing that's not totally clear to me (and it's probably just my own ignorance) is your use of Google Voice. On the one hand, you mention it in your original post and indicate you have two Google Voice numbers. But later, you talk quite a bit about the call quality problems you've noticed with it. Can you be more specific about how exactly you're using it? That is to say, are you giving our primarily your GV number to everyone and using it to ring your home phone (and cell when needed) so you can take calls? Or, are you working to get away from it and using similar features by way of, say, Voipo?

The way you were talking about it, I was almost getting the impression that you could avoid the GV problems by using the number only for incoming calls, but making outgoing calls some other way. However, I don't see how that would avoid the call quality problems whenever you're taking incoming calls.

No problem, dmobley. Glad the info is of use for you!

As for the second part, it doesn't. Incoming is just as bad as outgoing most of the time.

I have to admit, now that you've condensed down my overall mentioned usage and feelings on Google Voice here, it does seem a bit confusing. We are currently using two Google Voice accounts under two usage scenarios: one (very low priority) business line that I mostly use to do occasional side work, and one as a mix of free personal long distance and unlimited text messaging, people where we need to immediately know if they call when we're out and about or at home, and as a bozo filter/enforcement device for any situation where we'd rather not give out our actual home number (businesses, CL selling, marketers, medical billing departments). Unofrtunately, I don't think I can explain this without another fargin' wall of text (I'm like a Tim Buckley cartoon sometimes - words words words words words). My apologies.

On the business end, I don't get many calls on it, and it's the sort of thing where it's okay if they get sent to voicemail. We also don't depend on the business to bring in survival money, so it's kinda just there. If it ever were to ramp up, I would spend the money to port the number out of Google and take it to a proper VoIP company. Until then, I'm more than willing to suffer the occasions of rough call quality. For connectivity as a dedicated home VoIP line, we're using GV in combination with a Sipgate One account, and return calls that aren't done through GV on the cell go through the web dialer so the right caller-ID shows up.

On the personal end, we're using FutureNine's Bare Essentials w/e911 package as our primary home line and have 250 outgoing minutes a month. We try to stay close with our out of town family, so we frequently initiate far more minutes than that a month. Given they're lower priority calls where quality can suffer without it mattering much, we toughed it out as everyone got to talk for free. I would be lying though if we said some of the calls weren't frustrating and we haven't grown increasingly uncomfortable with Google's ever-growing advertising juggernaut nature. And yes, we did try to use it with them as a call once, ring everywhere alternative as F9 didn't have that feature.

When GC relaunched as GV and added new features, we were still with AT&T for our cell service and for years had friends and family who we loved dearly who insisted on texting people a lot. We didn't text at the time, and felt a texting package wasteful and didn't like the 25˘ an SMS rate on our plan anyway, so we finally lifted the "don't text us" ban when we actually added GV into the communications mix. For this purpose, it still has served admirably, but still has that taint of, "Google is harvesting this."

As for the remaining purposes, they've been invaluable and even after we finish transitioning away from using GV for the long distance by switching to VOIPo after we move in a couple months and hopefully to TextFreek/chompSMS/crunchSMS for texting*, we will mostly continue to keep using GV for them. Why? Because of some of the features included. GV is truly the perfect disposable number since you can set ring through privacy times for people not in the address book (and even for them too if you want - not to mention specific phone call routing based on address book numbers so specific people calling won't ring all phones), you can block harassing callers and telemarketers where they actually will get a "disconnected number" message, the infinite call record logs, and you can record incoming calls for recordkeeping. This last feature has proven invaluable for us since I have medical problems with no insurance and we've found that medical billing and collections people are some of the biggest, clueless, dishonest, most careless scumf***s in the industry. It's easier to hold them accountable when you have evidence that can be submitted in a court if necessary, and even better when that evidence can be generated with a single press of the 4 button on the phone.

There's the breakdown of our usage of it, why it was used, and how we're "phasing" it out of service, and the likely best strategy for usage. Most of GV's cost savings features can be easily replaced by using a VoIP provider that mimics many of those things, and the remaining will hopefully be replaceable with alternate SMS services*.

*This plan has not been implemented or tried yet, but will be pushed into service shortly as we had to very recently abandon the crackberries. The downside is, the "free" apps are ad-based, but can be unlocked for around $5 (the average cheap price of a single month of "unlimited" text messaging). The upside is that these are genuinely near seamless <1kB/SMS messaging tools and provide free unlimited text messaging through data between TextFreek users globally. Given the company has an actual business model of making money off selling "cheaper" international SMS messages and adware free software, combined with their privacy policy, they seem an excellent GV SMS replacement. I'm hoping the idea will propagate as a stealthy mustachian cost shift with friends and family as they realize they don't need to keep paying for unlimited texting packages and data packages if most everyone is on board together, with practically no change in their usage on their phones. Anyway, I'll be making a full post on our Android transition with these tools soon... keep an eye out.

[napalminator]

you might want to include ting.com on your MVNO list.  $6/month per device+tiered pricing for minutes/texts/data, allows  hotspot/tethering for data.  decent selection of Android phones.  not the absolute cheapest, but a good option for people who aren't total cell phone ascetics.

[Daley]

you might want to include ting.com on your MVNO list.  $6/month per device+tiered pricing for minutes/texts/data, allows  hotspot/tethering for data.  decent selection of Android phones.  not the absolute cheapest, but a good option for people who aren't total cell phone ascetics.

Thanks for bringing them to my attention, Napalminator! I was wondering why I hadn't heard of them until I realized Tucows launched the service publicly just a couple months ago. You're right, it's not the greatest deal across the board, but there are some usage saving scenarios there that I'm sure a fair number of people would find of value. Definitely a few perks, too, like free voice roaming outside of the Sprint coverage zone, roaming to Canada, fixed numbers on minute usage so you don't get burned by actually taking advantage of "unlimited" calls (I love Platinumtel's service, but I would never use one of their unlimited plans if I genuinely needed the meter ripped off the phone), and pooled resources across handsets. The handsets are prohibitively expensive and there's absolutely ZERO BYOD options, so that cost needs to be factored into switching as well, but overall it holds promise.

I'll do a bit more research and add them to the list next major update here in the next week or so (which will include a huge revamp on the android application and setting recommendations due to my own recently forced migration over from Blackberry and due to comments left by a poster in another thread).

[BenDarDunDat]

On the personal end, we're using FutureNine's Bare Essentials w/e911 package as our primary home line and have 250 outgoing minutes a month.

As for the remaining purposes, they've been invaluable and even after we finish transitioning away from using GV for the long distance by switching to VOIPo after we move in a couple months and hopefully to TextFreek/chompSMS/crunchSMS for texting*

Are you using FutureNine or VOIPo?  Both services seem great, and I just noticed my VOIP provider has drastically increased the cost of our service  ($60 per year up to $149) so I'll be in the market when my year is up.

[napalminator]

you might want to include ting.com on your MVNO list.  $6/month per device+tiered pricing for minutes/texts/data, allows  hotspot/tethering for data.  decent selection of Android phones.  not the absolute cheapest, but a good option for people who aren't total cell phone ascetics.

Thanks for bringing them to my attention, Napalminator! I was wondering why I hadn't heard of them until I realized Tucows launched the service publicly just a couple months ago. You're right, it's not the greatest deal across the board, but there are some usage saving scenarios there that I'm sure a fair number of people would find of value. Definitely a few perks, too, like free voice roaming outside of the Sprint coverage zone, roaming to Canada, fixed numbers on minute usage so you don't get burned by actually taking advantage of "unlimited" calls (I love Platinumtel's service, but I would never use one of their unlimited plans if I genuinely needed the meter ripped off the phone), and pooled resources across handsets. The handsets are prohibitively expensive and there's absolutely ZERO BYOD options, so that cost needs to be factored into switching as well, but overall it holds promise.

I'll do a bit more research and add them to the list next major update here in the next week or so (which will include a huge revamp on the android application and setting recommendations due to my own recently forced migration over from Blackberry and due to comments left by a poster in another thread).

the automatic adjustment of the pricing tiers is nice too.  no need to overestimate your usage for the occasional heavy month, or get blasted with exorbitant overage charges. 

[Daley]

the automatic adjustment of the pricing tiers is nice too.  no need to overestimate your usage for the occasional heavy month, or get blasted with exorbitant overage charges.

Very true, I caught that but forgot to mention it.

Are you using FutureNine or VOIPo?  Both services seem great, and I just noticed my VOIP provider has drastically increased the cost of our service  ($60 per year up to $149) so I'll be in the market when my year is up.

We're currently with F9 and our plans are to stay with F9 until around July-ish, and switch to VOIPo with the first major bargain package at under $8/month after tax offered during that time-frame. That said, I would be remiss to let you think we're switching to VOIPo because of the price, because we aren't.

Don't get me wrong, I adore the quality of service Nitzan over at F9 provides and love that it's a smaller mom-and-pop style provider that kicks ass and competes with the 800lb gorillas in the industry like VOIPo with aplomb. I also understand that he's gotta make money somewhere to keep the doors open, and I will miss doing regular business with him... but given our desire to get away from Google Voice, there's just some calling features we've found invaluable and want to keep that he has yet to provide for unknown reasons despite being on the feature roadmap for years (specifically global call hunt), and I've given up on ever seeing it implemented. Otherwise we'd just stay put out of loyalty and would have already switched to his America Free package despite the higher price and lower minute count than his competitors.

Even after the planned switch though, we're not entirely dropping F9. We're planning to go over to a strictly outgoing only pay-as-you-go account with no DID and using them as our "international long distance" provider as they have some of the best international rates available period. That should answer your question with plenty of extra color.

[edmcquade]

I think AirVoice's new $10/month plan also deserves a spot on the list.  They're an AT&T MVNO that has much better customer service than H2O.  I ported my wife's iPhone to this plan last week.

I found this to be a really useful resource for learning about prepaid MVNOs:
http://www.howardforums.com/showthread.php/1759158-The-Prepaid-Wireless-Frequently-Asked-Questions-(%E2%80%9CFAQ%E2%80%9D)-(updated-3-20-2012)

[Daley]

I think AirVoice's new $10/month plan also deserves a spot on the list.  They're an AT&T MVNO that has much better customer service than H2O.  I ported my wife's iPhone to this plan last week.

I found this to be a really useful resource for learning about prepaid MVNOs:
http://www.howardforums.com/showthread.php/1759158-The-Prepaid-Wireless-Frequently-Asked-Questions-(%E2%80%9CFAQ%E2%80%9D)-(updated-3-20-2012)

Apparently those are new prices on AirVoice's end, because H2O was still the cheapest AT&T MVNO when I wrote this up at the end of February. Nice! I had known that AT&T had dropped costs recently to their MVNOs, but hadn't checked AV recently (they'd been running around the same prices that RedPocket is still charging, which is why I hadn't mentioned them). Just goes to show you how quickly things can change sometimes. Well, we got a new low-end GSM prepaid king! I'll make the changes with the next update. Thanks, edmcquade!

[Daley]

The Android Conversion

Here's a brief breakdown on our recent transition over to Android on our phones from Blackberry. If you have any remaining questions, ask.

UPDATE 05/31: Additional thoughts on this process and some changes have been made since this post. See here. I especially recommend people who feel it necessary to root their Intercept and do as I have done despite my insistence that you don't do it to read the post first!

As it has been mentioned, we're on Platinumtel - and we've recently migrated to the Samsung SPH-M910 Intercept phones. Other than being very pink, they're very competitively priced at $60 (especially with their current $50 airtime card promotion) which puts the effective price at $10. The downside? Stock configured, the Intercept has the reputation that people love to hate it. The processor isn't the fastest (667 MHz ARM11), the internal memory is only 256MB, they're loaded full of Sprint bloatware, the keyboard is mediocre (it certainly isn't a BB keyboard), and the battery is a bit gutless... but in the right hands, has great potential.

After rooting the device, I gutted the Sprint software using Root Uninstaller, disabled most of the remaining unneeded software from loading using Autostarts to keep things running smooth (best dollar spent on this phone), Onavo Count to keep tabs on data usage, Easy Battery Saver to disable/limit data usage when off WiFi and extend battery life, Unlock With WiFi to simplify usage, reduce input and battery use on WiFi at home, Chomp for (mostly) free SMS usage (between registered users), Kik for a BBM replacement, K-9 Mail for a better IMAP push/compression supporting e-mail client, and Google Voice. There was other stuff, but those are the important pieces.

The performance was so improved by using Autostarts, my initial plan of dropping in Crappy Kernel has been delayed as it doesn't seem necessary (I may do it eventually anyway after the future VOIPo transition just to see how much performance improves and get better support for Sipdroid on the device, though... if I do, I'll report back). With Easy Battery Saver set to 15 minute/30 second network/autosync updates on 3G and autosync disabled on everything but Kik, K9 and Chomp and a nine hour sleep period at night, I've gotten a baseline 24 hour network usage without added communication of about 225kb a day with no WiFi access factored. If we didn't bother with WiFi at all, we'd at most only have about 7MB a month in worthless base traffic (70˘ on P'tel) using these settings. It's a bit higher on average than the total used data traffic we averaged with the Blackberries operating 24/7 on network. With the addition of the WiFi access, hopefully it'll balance out and the monthly average won't fluctuate much. With the software installed and the network updates done via network data and WiFi off, unmolested, the phone can sit for roughly 40+ hours before the battery dies. Not great, but not terrible either.

I had been a bit disappointed to find that Nephi's report regarding GV text message overhead on Android wasn't too far off (I got between 15-25k each), which is what prompted the search and install of ChompSMS. I'm pleased to report that under real world usage, both Chomp and Kik both live up to the napkin math figures from the other thread with an average of around 1-3kb a message depending on length which means the 10,000 texts for a buck option is within the realm of possibility again. Kik's got a bit more overhead due to live status updates of message delivery and typing, but it's trivial. Of course, Chomp doesn't have the benefit of GV where all messages are sent via data, but it a) does integrate in seamlessly for system text messages, and b) does send for the cost of data between registered TextFreek users. Of course, you may have an uphill battle trying to convert some of your SMS loving friends and family over to TextFreek/ChompSMS/CrunchSMS, but the process is painless enough and the privacy policy is surprisingly inoffensive. We actually got all but one frequent texter on board ourselves easily enough and the trickledown on text package savings is already taking root with others we know. Added bonus, one less pie Google now has a direct thumb in with our communications.

Finally, Onavo Count deserves a bit of commentary. It works great for monitoring traffic and appears to report accurate numbers from the overview page on network data usage. What it doesn't report accurately is bandwidth usage when broken down by application. The numbers simply won't jive between app level reports and overview. I'll see if I can get an answer as to why. Anyway, there you go. An entry-level Android turned into a lean, mean, frugal communications machine so badass a bearded man can do the "aww yeah" strut down the street holding the thing despite it being all pink and frilly.


In other news, I'm beginning to try and overhaul, update and restructure the guide (you may have noticed the edited first post already). It's a mess for trying to find specific information, so I'll be trying to fix that. I may break a few links in the process, though. It'll be slower going than the initial post, so expect changes next couple weeks.

[keith]

Just wanted to reply and say thanks for the guide here, a lot of super helpful information that motivated me to stop paying $80 a month for cell service.

I was a t-mobile customer, so I was looking around for GSM based prepaid/mvno options and really wanted to keep my existing phone. My phone (a Windows phone / HTC HD7) is carrier locked to T-mo and I really didn't want to hassle with unlocking it.

What I ended up doing was converting my current plan over to T-mobile Prepaid. $30 a month for 1500 combined minutes/txts. Thats more then I use, and if for some reason I get close to hitting the cap I will start supplementing with google voice. And I don't *need* data on my phone, so i just shut that off. The plan comes with 30mb of data, so if there was truly a GPS/email emergency I could flip on the data and use it, but know I won't need to.

Its not as cheap as it possibly could be, but its a LOT less then what I was paying before.

[Daley]

Just wanted to reply and say thanks for the guide here, a lot of super helpful information that motivated me to stop paying $80 a month for cell service.

I was a t-mobile customer, so I was looking around for GSM based prepaid/mvno options and really wanted to keep my existing phone. My phone (a Windows phone / HTC HD7) is carrier locked to T-mo and I really didn't want to hassle with unlocking it.

What I ended up doing was converting my current plan over to T-mobile Prepaid. $30 a month for 1500 combined minutes/txts. Thats more then I use, and if for some reason I get close to hitting the cap I will start supplementing with google voice. And I don't *need* data on my phone, so i just shut that off. The plan comes with 30mb of data, so if there was truly a GPS/email emergency I could flip on the data and use it, but know I won't need to.

Its not as cheap as it possibly could be, but its a LOT less then what I was paying before.

Glad to have helped there, Keith!

Something I should add in and mention (sorry for not mentioning this already) is that with both AT&T and T-Mobile, if your phone is out of contract, they will unlock it for you for free, and the process isn't that difficult. You just have to call customer support and ask (less than five minutes on the phone). 24 hours later, they'll e-mail you the IMEI unlock code and the instructions. Sometimes, you don't even need to be out of contract. I think 12 months in on a handset, AT&T will unlock it if you just tell them you're going out of country on a brief trip and want to take your phone with you (they even used to do it with their GoPhones). The process is really and truly trivial and the physical unlocking process is a 90 second job, if that. MSL codes on CDMA phones are almost as equally easy to obtain when you own the phone outright as well.

Unfortunately, most prepaid providers aren't quite as generous in that regard. (Interesting side-note with P'tel on the Android activation: they gave us the MSL code as part of the registration process.) I know you're viewing it as a "hassle" to do so, but given your history with TMo and the current conversion, head down to a store and see if they can still get the phone unlocked for you anyway. The added freedom and potential future savings/increased resale value will be well worth the effort, even if you don't use it now.

[keith]

Just wanted to reply and say thanks for the guide here, a lot of super helpful information that motivated me to stop paying $80 a month for cell service.

I was a t-mobile customer, so I was looking around for GSM based prepaid/mvno options and really wanted to keep my existing phone. My phone (a Windows phone / HTC HD7) is carrier locked to T-mo and I really didn't want to hassle with unlocking it.

What I ended up doing was converting my current plan over to T-mobile Prepaid. $30 a month for 1500 combined minutes/txts. Thats more then I use, and if for some reason I get close to hitting the cap I will start supplementing with google voice. And I don't *need* data on my phone, so i just shut that off. The plan comes with 30mb of data, so if there was truly a GPS/email emergency I could flip on the data and use it, but know I won't need to.

Its not as cheap as it possibly could be, but its a LOT less then what I was paying before.

Glad to have helped there, Keith!

Something I should add in and mention (sorry for not mentioning this already) is that with both AT&T and T-Mobile, if your phone is out of contract, they will unlock it for you for free, and the process isn't that difficult. You just have to call customer support and ask (less than five minutes on the phone). 24 hours later, they'll e-mail you the IMEI unlock code and the instructions. Sometimes, you don't even need to be out of contract. I think 12 months in on a handset, AT&T will unlock it if you just tell them you're going out of country on a brief trip and want to take your phone with you (they even used to do it with their GoPhones). The process is really and truly trivial and the physical unlocking process is a 90 second job, if that. MSL codes on CDMA phones are almost as equally easy to obtain when you own the phone outright as well.

Unfortunately, most prepaid providers aren't quite as generous in that regard. (Interesting side-note with P'tel on the Android activation: they gave us the MSL code as part of the registration process.) I know you're viewing it as a "hassle" to do so, but given your history with TMo and the current conversion, head down to a store and see if they can still get the phone unlocked for you anyway. The added freedom and potential future savings/increased resale value will be well worth the effort, even if you don't use it now.

Ah ok thanks. I honestly didn't know that you could get it unlocked that easily. I will keep this in mind for the future.

This may be helpful for others as well, so maybe you can add a brief unlocking section to the rest of the guide when you have time...

[Daley]

Ah ok thanks. I honestly didn't know that you could get it unlocked that easily. I will keep this in mind for the future.

This may be helpful for others as well, so maybe you can add a brief unlocking section to the rest of the guide when you have time...

Yup, already on the list for the upcoming changes. Apologies for overlooking this relatively important bit of info for nearly two months. With all the changes going in and the restructuring, I'm half-tempted to un-retire my rackspace and just start up a companion wiki.

hmmm.... There's an idea, a MMM community wiki for these sorts of topics. Might work better than giant winding forum threads for people who get intimidated by old usenet style walls of text.

[frugalman]

Monthly internet and phone costs before MMM and IPD:
Charter internet only 15MBS: $47.99
Home phone, PhonePower, $11.35 (2 year with taxes)
My cell: $26.72 Virgin Mobile android
Wife's cell: $26.72 Virgin Mobile android
Total before: $112.78

Monthly internet and phone costs after MMM and IPD:
Charter Lite internet 3MBS: $24.99
Home phone: OBI100, Google Voice, Callcentric for e911: $1.50
My cell: $3.33 PlatinumTel dumb cell phone
Wife's cell: $26.72 Virgin Mobile android (she likes how it works so keeping it)
Total after: $56.54

Total monthly savings: $56.24
It all works well enough, and $56.24 more a month to paying down my house was worth a little time and attention..

P.S. a friend of mine at work and myself converted to OBI100 and Google Voice a couple of weeks ago.  We have had NO problems with voice quality.  I'll keep the board updated as to our experience.


Update May 6, 2012. No complaints about Google Voice. I can't tell it apart from the PhonePower VOIP service I was using. Good quality almost all the time.

Update May 14, 2012. Changed back to my PhonePower service for now.  Friends and family were telling us they were "missing" some of our conversations, sometimes our voice was garbled etc.  Also we have had 2 dropped calls lately.  IPD was right, Google Voice can be spotty and have quality problems.  Our 2 year PhonePower purchase (199.95 + 72.50 fees and taxes) is up in August of 2012, so we will have to decide whether to reup with them, or try VOIPO which is 129.00 for 2 years (plus fees and taxes).

[frugalman]

CallCentric just notified me that they have two new rate plans.  The 500 minute plan is only $6.95 including e 911 service...


New rate plans available

We're happy to introduce two new rate plans, North America 500 and North America 1000. North America 500 includes 500 monthly minutes of calling to the USA (US Domestic, Alaska and Hawaii), Canada, and Puerto Rico and includes 911 service for US and Canadian customers all in the $6.95 monthly price. North America 1000 includes all the same features as North America 500, but with 1,000 minutes of calling for $12.95 per month. You can save up to 40% by choosing either of these rate plans. Both rate plans also include the new feature listed below: Multiple calls placed under monthly rate plans all included within rate plan. If you go over the included monthly minutes or call outside the included calling areas, you'll be charged per-minute based on our low Pay Per Call rates.

[Praxis]

My cell is partially work comp'd, so I don't worry about it and use AT&T with my iPhone*.  It's unlocked so if I ever transition off it'll be to T-Mobile.

I'm in the process of porting my Landline to Google Voice via a prepaid phone in between.

And I negotiated my monthly 40 mbps fiber internet connection down to $35.

Cancelled cable TV and got Netflix and a Roku ages ago.

Working on applying as much of this as I can :)

* I know frugal folks tend to frown on Apple products.  Neat thing about the iPhone is how well it retains resell value because they're so hard to get out of contract.  You can buy an iPhone at release for $199, then resell it for $250 out-of-contract a year later because a new iPhone out of contract costs $599 and someone who, say, breaks their phone, isn't eligible for upgrade prices for another year, so they'll pay the premium.  A similar principal exists for Mac laptops...I've always resold mine for significant portion of purchase price (~40% of purchase price 3-5 years later), and it works out to a similar cost or even cheaper compared to buying other brands.  I build my own desktops, but you can't build your own laptop, and Apple is actually fairly reasonable on price when compared to other laptop brands.  Beyond resale value, there's a very solid less-time-maintaining bonus involved.

[igthebold]

I've mentioned this on other fora, but I thought it would be useful to lay it out in more detail here:

I recently downgraded from T-Mobile with data plan ($65/mo) to PureTalk USA. So far, very happy.

Here's my comm/Internet setup:

• Internet: Cable modem ($80/mo), biggest service available, paid for by my consulting business, since I'm a programmer
• Cell: PureTalkUSA ($10/mo), works great so far, with one exception (see Google Voice). I'm using a Google Nexus One (Android phone)
• Google Voice: free, using this to unify my cell phone with other options. Love that it's integrated in Android.
• Skype: ($6/mo), includes minutes and incoming number so Google Voice can dial it

So my total cash per month for communication and Internet access is $96/mo. That seems like a lot, except that I'm a programmer and need a consistent minimum bandwidth so I can communicate, deploy code, etc. I'm considering dropping it, but for now, I'm OK with it. Especially since my company can deduct it for tax purposes, dropping it to effectively $60/mo. Also, the fact that it enables me to work from home, saving loads of other expenses, makes it beneficial.

Ironically, perhaps, I'm a mobile application developer, meaning I write iPhone and Android apps (no, I won't listen to your project idea.. ;). So, for those that think you *need* a data plan, take it from me that you don't necessarily.

One caveat is that without a data plan, Google Voice can't dial phones, but the few times I need to make phone calls away from a wifi connection, I just call from my phone's phone number, which confuses people, but works fine.

[Z]

One caveat is that without a data plan, Google Voice can't dial phones, but the few times I need to make phone calls away from a wifi connection, I just call from my phone's phone number, which confuses people, but works fine.

I've used Google Voice to make calls on multiple android phones without a data connection.  http://googlevoiceblog.blogspot.com/2010/07/faster-dialing-with-google-voice-on.html

Perhaps we're talking about different use cases...

[igthebold]

I've used Google Voice to make calls on multiple android phones without a data connection.  http://googlevoiceblog.blogspot.com/2010/07/faster-dialing-with-google-voice-on.html

Perhaps we're talking about different use cases...

Ah, interesting. So I usually make calls when connected to wifi. That works fine. But apparently it's only the numbers I haven't dialed before that won't work without a wifi or data connection. That is very cool.

[Z]

Ah, interesting. So I usually make calls when connected to wifi. That works fine. But apparently it's only the numbers I haven't dialed before that won't work without a wifi or data connection. That is very cool.

Agreed.  Phone calls to previously dialed numbers can be completed without a data connection.  In rare situations where the number is new and no data connection is available, you could dial your google voice number, your pin, 2, then the number - the other party would then see your google voice number.  Far from ideal, but should be infrequent.

[LadyM]

This post has inspired me to do several things:

After reading this back in March I investigated my cell phone plan with AT&T and it turned out that our contract had been up for some time.  I called them and had them switch me from post-paid ($81/month and that included a teacher discount for my husband, for 500 minutes talk and 500 texts family plan) to a prepaid ($25 x 2 phones = $50/month for 300 minutes talk and unlimited texts) for a savings of $31/month.  Sticking with AT&T and just switching to their pre-paid service seemed easier since we could just continue to use our current AT&T phones.  However, the customer service people were loathe to switch me over, despite being the same damn company....it was way harder than it should be.

We currently have Verizon FiOS TV (hold on before you punch me in the face) and Internet....we used to have phone but I ditched it in favor of Vonage, and that saved us about $25 a month for a home phone.  Now I'm thinking of dropping Vonage in favor of VoipO!  Vonage costs me $17.16/month after taxes and fees, but VoipO would cost me $6.88/month (if I get the $129/2 years plan, which is really $165 after taxes and fees).  $10 more bucks in my pocket!

I'm now looking at options to ditch the TV, but keep the FiOS internet.  TV and Internet costs us $105/month including taxes and fees PLUS we pay for tivo monthly at $22.90 for 2 boxes.  Killing the TV but keeping the internet with FiOS gets us down to $58.97/month with taxes and fees, and on a 1-year contract.  While that's not the cheapest internet in the world, it's the cheapest I can do without dropping high-speed entirely or splitting it with my neighbors.  But I stand to save $46 with Verizon alone, PLUS the $22.90 with Tivo (why would I keep it if I drop the Verizon TV service??) = $68.90 per month in SAVINGS!!! 

Phone savings of $10 plus $68.90 TV killing/Internet savings = $78.90 per month(!!!) x 12 months = $946.80 savings per year (!!!) x 10 years = $9,468!!!

We will have to pay a $75 early termination fee to Verizon for breach of contract, but we'll make that up in the first month, so why the hell not?!? 

And why the F*CK didn't I do this sooner?!?!?!

[Rangifer]

New guy here. First of all, props to MMM for the site and forum.

Second, while alot of people seem to be saving big bucks in this thread, I think alot are doing it in the wrong way. It looks like several on here have switched to a lower tier plan to save money, which unless you are in a contract isn't the best way to do it. You need to threaten to cancel (and be prepared to do so if they call your bluff). Let me give you a personal example:

I have my internet through clear. They have a 1.5mbps plan at $34.99/mo and an unlimited plan (up to 6mbps) for 49.99/mo. The 1.5mbps doesn't cut it for me (hold your laughter, please), but the unlimited is out of line for high speed pricing. Queue phone call...

CSR: Hi thanks for calling clear, blah blah blah....
Me: Not happy with service, costs too much, would like to cancel.
CSR: Blah blah blah, we can switch you to the $34.99 plan to save you some money.
Me: No that wont work, too much for too little, tranfer me to cancellations.

Cancellations CSR: Blah blah blah, why aren't you happy with us?
Me: (restate above reasons)
Cancellations CSR: Blah blah blah, several reasons why their service is a good deal.
Me: Reiterate that the service isn't the issue, but the price.
Cancellations CSR: Blah blah blah....
Cancellations CSR: Well, before we cancel you plan, there is one thing we could do (offers unlimited plan for $24.99/mo).
Me: Yes, I think that will work.

All in all about a 15 minute phone call. I get a nice discount and the cancellations agent gets one 'saved' account on their record. A win-win for both.


Really, in just about any semi-major area, there should be a competitor with a nice intro offer that you can pitch against your existing provider. And this isn't just for internet companies either. Lots of them will give you some sort of discount, either a lower rate or some term of free service if you are ready to cancel. There is no need to be dishonest. Tell them you need to cut your bills down and cant afford their service or that there is a better deal around or whatever reason you have. You'd be surprised how well this works.

[Rangifer]

I also see that Ting has been mentioned as a wireless provider. I'm currently using them so I'll give my 2 cents. If their model works for you I would absolutely recommend them. Based on my interactions with them they do appear to genuinely care that you are happy with them. I've called them for some unusual requests as well, dealing with spoofing the ESN of an ex-Sprint smartphone on their network, and they were more than happy to spend over 40 minutes on the phone to get me the information I needed. NO ONE else would even consider helping you out with a request like that, hell they'd probably cancel your account on the spot. The no hold wait is a nice touch, although I don't know how well that will continue as the number of subscribers grow.

And in case anyone is considering buying a simple phone, they are currently offering $50 off of a new purchase and activation (code VTIMR33). I paid $70 bucks for my phone, but the service fits my needs perfectly and I consider it well worth the initial cost. At 20 bucks I wouldn't hesitate.

[atelierk]

Okay, my head is spinning. I've read through the Superguide, but I'm just as confused as ever because I have no background whatsoever in communication technology. I don't follow the latest and greatest in the gadget world and generally upgrade my "dumb phone" only when I absolutely have to. Most of those acronyms mean nothing to me, so I'm not sure how to proceed.

I'm currently being billed $160/month for a bundled landline, cell phone and internet plan with Verizon. It breaks down like this:
Internet: $35.00 for 1.2-1.7 Mbps
Cell phone: $73 family plan w/ 700 minutes, of which I pay half. (We do no texting.)
Landline: $52

My cost, then, is $124/month.

I want to spend less, naturally. So I've been following this thread with interest and after reading ladymaier's post mentioning VoipO today, I checked out their website. Looks easy enough, and cheap but I guess what I don't understand is how I can change while still having everything come into the house on Verizon's wires. This is probably a really stupid question, but if I signed up (for example) with VoipO, how does Verizon know to stop billing me the $52 per month? Does VoipO let them know? Is there a general procedure for switching providers?

And if there's a problem with the line (like the annoying hum I get to listen to now every time we have heavy rain), who would I call since Verizon owns the wires, but they'd no longer provide my landline service?

Enlightenment would be seriously appreciated! Thanks.

[Daley]

I want to spend less, naturally. So I've been following this thread with interest and after reading ladymaier's post mentioning VoipO today, I checked out their website. Looks easy enough, and cheap but I guess what I don't understand is how I can change while still having everything come into the house on Verizon's wires. This is probably a really stupid question, but if I signed up (for example) with VoipO, how does Verizon know to stop billing me the $52 per month? Does VoipO let them know? Is there a general procedure for switching providers?

And if there's a problem with the line (like the annoying hum I get to listen to now every time we have heavy rain), who would I call since Verizon owns the wires, but they'd no longer provide my landline service?

VOIPo sends you a tiny little box called an ATA (analog telephone adapter) or as they'll call it, a "VoIP adapter" with two ports on the back, one ethernet (you plug this into your router), one a modular phone jack (you plug your home telephone into this). The phone service is provided via your internet connection instead of traditional copper phone lines coming into the house.

If you have call quality issues, either VOIPo's servers are having trouble, in which case you can contact their support team, or most frequently the case if you do have quality issues, there's noise on your internet connection and you're either not getting the bandwidth you're paying for or there's high latency issues, either case will have you calling your internet service provider for troubleshooting and repair.

As for your phone service with Verizon, nothing will happen to it unless you port your home phone number over to VOIPo. If you port your number to VOIPo, the process will automatically terminate service for that telephone line with Verizon. Now, before you go doing that, you need to make sure that terminating your home phone service isn't also going to terminate your internet service with Verizon at the same time. This will likely be dependent upon whether you're receiving service via FIOS or copper loop, so call and talk with Verizon's billing department. Tell them you're investigating the process of porting your home phone number to a wireless carrier and ask what needs to be done to ensure your internet service isn't interrupted and find out what, if any changes, will occur with your monthly bill upon doing so. If your internet is through FIOS, dependent upon whether you're under contract or not, you'll likely see an increase in your monthly bill and a possible contract termination fee, but it shouldn't interrupt your internet service. If it's through copper loop, I'm not entirely sure what will happen as I've never dealt with Verizon in this sort of situation, but I do know that they do offer dry loop service... there'd probably be a fee increase for your internet there as well and there hopefully shouldn't be any issues with losing your internet. But this is why you're going to call, to confirm just that.

If your service is through Verizon's copper loop and isn't FIOS (which I'm figuring is the case given the line noise during heavy rain), whether there might be internet disconnect issues or not, it might be worth considering switching your ISP to DSLExtreme at the same time, as you could get twice the speed for the same price as you're paying Verizon now without a contract, and with an annual contract would only be $25 a month for that same 3.0Mbps DSL service. Basically just give Verizon the big heave-ho all at once. Word of advice, however: if you do this, switch the phone line first, otherwise DSLExtreme will have to re-re-set-up your internet connection.

As for how line maintenance occurs under this configuration where you're using Verizon's lines for a third party ISP and you have connectivity issues with your internet, you'd call DSLExtreme for technical support, and they'd either send out their own techs or put in a trouble ticket with Verizon's support department to fix the lines, and you won't get billed for the service call unless it's a problem with the wiring inside the house. So long as your internet connection is robust and stable, your home phone service through a VoIP provider should be likewise.

Clear as mud?

[Daley]

I also see that Ting has been mentioned as a wireless provider. I'm currently using them so I'll give my 2 cents. If their model works for you I would absolutely recommend them. Based on my interactions with them they do appear to genuinely care that you are happy with them. I've called them for some unusual requests as well, dealing with spoofing the ESN of an ex-Sprint smartphone on their network, and they were more than happy to spend over 40 minutes on the phone to get me the information I needed. NO ONE else would even consider helping you out with a request like that, hell they'd probably cancel your account on the spot. The no hold wait is a nice touch, although I don't know how well that will continue as the number of subscribers grow.

And in case anyone is considering buying a simple phone, they are currently offering $50 off of a new purchase and activation (code VTIMR33). I paid $70 bucks for my phone, but the service fits my needs perfectly and I consider it well worth the initial cost. At 20 bucks I wouldn't hesitate.

Excellent info on Ting, Rangifer. Thank you! Interesting to hear that their support department is currently willing to let you not only BYOD (in a roundabout fashion) but help you spoof your device's ESN to one of their own as well (if I understood what you wrote correctly) to let you be able to do so.

I also agree and appreciate you reminding people to try negotiating first on their bills if they're in a position to do so. One does need to remember, however, that a fair number of people don't really have the leverage necessary to truly shop broadband providers like that even if they don't have a contract to break due to a surprisingly large remaining number of artificial monopolies or rock-and-a-hardplace duopolies in even larger metro areas. Myself? I've gotta bend over and take it from Cox since I won't do business with AT&T anymore for ethical reasons, and I can't get dry loop because AT&T refuses to share their toys unless they get to take an extra pound of flesh from the consumer. I'm not saying everyone's in a similar situation, but it's something to consider. Broadband service in the US is still a pretty dire charlie foxtrot for the majority of the public.

[Rangifer]

Yes, you read that correctly. They even have a whole section on their customer forum about hacking other phones to work on their network. I've hotwired an Evo 4G to show up as a Sanyo Vero dumbphone on their network and Ting has no problem with that.

I can also understand that choices are limited in some areas. But even if you don't intend on switching you can always try and see if they wont match their competitors promotional offers. In most mid to large metro areas there are endless commercials and ads for the "new customer" promo for internet/voip/whathaveyou. Comcast and AT&T will almost always give you a new promo price rather than have you leave to a competitors service. Besides, the worst case scenario is that you have the cancellations guy tell you there is nothing they can do, and if you don't have a better option, you just say "Well if that's the case, I guess I can deal with it a little bit longer" and tell them to have a good day.

[fiveoh]

My ATT contract is up this month.  I'm trying to figure out a cheaper solution.  My problem is I want to use my iphone.  I'm on wifi almost everywhere I use the phone.  Are there any solutions that would let me do pay as you go and use my iphone without getting a data plan?  I dont need the data part, I never use the data on my phone without being on wifi. 

I could just get a cheap pay as you go phone and keep the iphone as an "ipod" basically to use on wifi but I'd rather not have to carry around 2 phones!   

I'm actually only paying 44.79 a month for att... unlimited data plan(Grandfathered), 200 txts a month and 550 minute family plan add on.   

Edit: Does anyone know if I can use H2OWireless with an iphone on the pay as you go plan and not use the data?  Their site says you need a monthly plan for iphone to work so I dont think this will...

[igthebold]

fiveoh, I think you have to jailbreak and unlock your iPhone no matter what you end up doing if you go anywhere other than AT&T. If you're willing to do that, you might consider doing what I'm doing: using PureTalk USA for voice, and wifi for data.

[Daley]

My ATT contract is up this month.  I'm trying to figure out a cheaper solution.  My problem is I want to use my iphone.  I'm on wifi almost everywhere I use the phone.  Are there any solutions that would let me do pay as you go and use my iphone without getting a data plan?  I dont need the data part, I never use the data on my phone without being on wifi. 

I could just get a cheap pay as you go phone and keep the iphone as an "ipod" basically to use on wifi but I'd rather not have to carry around 2 phones!   

I'm actually only paying 44.79 a month for att... unlimited data plan(Grandfathered), 200 txts a month and 550 minute family plan add on.   

Edit: Does anyone know if I can use H2OWireless with an iphone on the pay as you go plan and not use the data?  Their site says you need a monthly plan for iphone to work so I dont think this will...

You shouldn't need to jailbreak the iPhone like Ig suggested anymore, just have AT&T unlock the device under their new policy. Just takes a call to customer service. Going to an AT&T based MVNO means not even having to worry about unlocking an AT&T based phone for basic calling and SMS usage, but unlocking has its advantages as it allows you access to wireless network gateway settings and other non-AT&T GSM network sim card usage. Get the device unlocked before leaving AT&T as it'll make the phone more valuable and flexible with your providers without potentially compromising security or worrying about iOS upgrades, even if you have no intention of configuring or enabling data on the device.

As for usage on H2O wireless, I have not seen any such pre-requisite for iPhones to be on a monthly plan, just that if you want to use their data, it will require reconfiguration, which makes sense. Pay as you go means just that, pay as you go. If you use data or have a plan with data access, you'll be billed data no matter what phone you use, and if there's no data plan, they won't let you on the internet even if the phone's configured properly. Same with voice and SMS services, they're not actually dependent on a specific plan for a device to work. The only time where you might have troubles with using data services on a smartphone with a prepaid would be with Blackberry and needing a BIS provider as a go-between. So yes, you can use any prepaid plan you want and either opt to use data or not. That goes for H2O, Airvoice, etc.

PureTalkUSA can be a bit of a ripoff under most usage situations for AT&T network GSM prepaid, as cheaper service can be had elsewhere. Currently Airvoice Wireless is king of the frugal GSM prepaids with their $10/month 250 minute plan. Otherwise, H2O has the most flexible package options with the next most competitive pricing.

[igthebold]

You shouldn't need to jailbreak the iPhone like Ig suggested anymore, just have AT&T unlock the device under their new policy.

Ah, nice. I have now updated my knowledge. Thanks.

PureTalkUSA can be a bit of a ripoff under most usage situations for AT&T network GSM prepaid, as cheaper service can be had elsewhere. Currently Airvoice Wireless is king of the frugal GSM prepaids with their $10/month 250 minute plan. Otherwise, H2O has the most flexible package options with the next most competitive pricing.

Fair enough. In my usage, it's infinite, since I never use 100 minutes/month, and they roll over the minutes, so I didn't think beyond my scenario.

[Daley]

Fair enough. In my usage, it's infinite, since I never use 100 minutes/month, and they roll over the minutes, so I didn't think beyond my scenario.

Yeah. Actually, most prepaid providers offer rollover so long as there's remaining airtime on the account. H2O does it, Airvoice does it, Platinumtel does it, T-Mo does it, yadda yadda yadda. That was actually one of the few things that killed me about leaving NET10 a couple years ago, given their airtime structure at the time, I'd banked a good 1000 minutes when I pulled the plug... but it wasn't worth it to keep paying $15 a month to keep it going, just like it wasn't worth paying $70 a month to keep the 2800 some odd rollover minutes my wife and I banked with AT&T a few years back.

With Platinumtel's 90 day airtime on even their $10 cards, we actually have a chance to use the minutes instead of just amassing them never to be used just to keep the service active.

[atelierk]

I want to spend less, naturally. So I've been following this thread with interest and after reading ladymaier's post mentioning VoipO today, I checked out their website. Looks easy enough, and cheap but I guess what I don't understand is how I can change while still having everything come into the house on Verizon's wires. This is probably a really stupid question, but if I signed up (for example) with VoipO, how does Verizon know to stop billing me the $52 per month? Does VoipO let them know? Is there a general procedure for switching providers?

And if there's a problem with the line (like the annoying hum I get to listen to now every time we have heavy rain), who would I call since Verizon owns the wires, but they'd no longer provide my landline service?

Clear as mud?

Actually, yes...that helps a lot. And you're right, I'm on the old copper wires, no FIOS. A few years ago my folks, who live a couple miles from here, were having a lot of trouble with noise on their line, being able to hear other people's conversations, etc. and one of the repair guys said that a lot of the phone wires in this area were first installed in the 1930's (!) and really need to be replaced. I see a Verizon truck out here and at the end of the road, working on equipment pretty frequently but the line noise continues (although I no longer can hear somebody's fax machine dialing in as often as I used to).

Anyway, thanks for your help. I will be checking all this stuff out.

[Daley]

Actually, yes...that helps a lot. And you're right, I'm on the old copper wires, no FIOS. A few years ago my folks, who live a couple miles from here, were having a lot of trouble with noise on their line, being able to hear other people's conversations, etc. and one of the repair guys said that a lot of the phone wires in this area were first installed in the 1930's (!) and really need to be replaced. I see a Verizon truck out here and at the end of the road, working on equipment pretty frequently but the line noise continues (although I no longer can hear somebody's fax machine dialing in as often as I used to).

Anyway, thanks for your help. I will be checking all this stuff out.

No problem! Given the age of the wiring and the frequency for line trouble, I'd like to stand corrected on my earlier advice. It might be worth it to stay with Verizon for your DSL service just so it's easier to yell at them when network quality starts to slide. It's also a possibility that the lines can't support 3Mbps which opens up another can of worms with the VoIP service.

Have you done any regular checks with Speedtest.net and Pingtest.net to confirm service quality? If you do have as many analog line troubles as you seem to be implying, I'm a wee bit hesitant about suggesting a VoIP transition as analog phone service is far more resilient to line noise than digital would be. Best suggestion would be to perhaps try out an Obi110 with Google Voice or take advantage of the 30 day trial with VOIPo before porting your number to see how it performs under average conditions (you can port it after you establish service). Perhaps look into internet service via the cable company, too, if they aren't on your crap list and they actually exist as an alternative in your region.

[fiveoh]

My ATT contract is up this month.  I'm trying to figure out a cheaper solution.  My problem is I want to use my iphone.  I'm on wifi almost everywhere I use the phone.  Are there any solutions that would let me do pay as you go and use my iphone without getting a data plan?  I dont need the data part, I never use the data on my phone without being on wifi. 

I could just get a cheap pay as you go phone and keep the iphone as an "ipod" basically to use on wifi but I'd rather not have to carry around 2 phones!   

I'm actually only paying 44.79 a month for att... unlimited data plan(Grandfathered), 200 txts a month and 550 minute family plan add on.   

Edit: Does anyone know if I can use H2OWireless with an iphone on the pay as you go plan and not use the data?  Their site says you need a monthly plan for iphone to work so I dont think this will...

You shouldn't need to jailbreak the iPhone like Ig suggested anymore, just have AT&T unlock the device under their new policy. Just takes a call to customer service. Going to an AT&T based MVNO means not even having to worry about unlocking an AT&T based phone for basic calling and SMS usage, but unlocking has its advantages as it allows you access to wireless network gateway settings and other non-AT&T GSM network sim card usage. Get the device unlocked before leaving AT&T as it'll make the phone more valuable and flexible with your providers without potentially compromising security or worrying about iOS upgrades, even if you have no intention of configuring or enabling data on the device.

As for usage on H2O wireless, I have not seen any such pre-requisite for iPhones to be on a monthly plan, just that if you want to use their data, it will require reconfiguration, which makes sense. Pay as you go means just that, pay as you go. If you use data or have a plan with data access, you'll be billed data no matter what phone you use, and if there's no data plan, they won't let you on the internet even if the phone's configured properly. Same with voice and SMS services, they're not actually dependent on a specific plan for a device to work. The only time where you might have troubles with using data services on a smartphone with a prepaid would be with Blackberry and needing a BIS provider as a go-between. So yes, you can use any prepaid plan you want and either opt to use data or not. That goes for H2O, Airvoice, etc.

PureTalkUSA can be a bit of a ripoff under most usage situations for AT&T network GSM prepaid, as cheaper service can be had elsewhere. Currently Airvoice Wireless is king of the frugal GSM prepaids with their $10/month 250 minute plan. Otherwise, H2O has the most flexible package options with the next most competitive pricing.

Ya I knew about getting ATT to unlock it.  Definately planning on doing that. 

From the h2owireless site:

https://www.h2owirelessnow.com/pageControl.php?page=IPhoneData

"You MUST have an H2OŽ Wireless account registered under any H2OŽ Wireless MONTH plans or DATA features will not work.
Please check you plan now. "  Now that sounds like it will just not work with data on the iphone if I went with a pay as you go plan but I wasn't sure if it would do just voice/text.   I guess I'll call them and find out when I'm ready to switch. 

Thanks for the great guide!

[Daley]

From the h2owireless site:

https://www.h2owirelessnow.com/pageControl.php?page=IPhoneData

"You MUST have an H2OŽ Wireless account registered under any H2OŽ Wireless MONTH plans or DATA features will not work.
Please check you plan now. "  Now that sounds like it will just not work with data on the iphone if I went with a pay as you go plan but I wasn't sure if it would do just voice/text.   I guess I'll call them and find out when I'm ready to switch. 

Didn't catch the new copy on that page. Used to be that anyone could configure an iPhone to do data on the pay as you go and daily plans. Looks like they're placing an artificial restriction on their data auto-configuration tool now to try and convert iPhone users to a minimum of $25 a month income. Likely easily bypassed through manual configuration if you really wanted data, but the restriction shouldn't limit you from using any plan you like with the phone.

Glad the guide helped!

[edmcquade]

You shouldn't need to jailbreak the iPhone like Ig suggested anymore, just have AT&T unlock the device under their new policy.

Ah, nice. I have now updated my knowledge. Thanks.

PureTalkUSA can be a bit of a ripoff under most usage situations for AT&T network GSM prepaid, as cheaper service can be had elsewhere. Currently Airvoice Wireless is king of the frugal GSM prepaids with their $10/month 250 minute plan. Otherwise, H2O has the most flexible package options with the next most competitive pricing.

Fair enough. In my usage, it's infinite, since I never use 100 minutes/month, and they roll over the minutes, so I didn't think beyond my scenario.

Although Airvoice advertises their $10/month plan as 250 minutes, it's really any usage at these rates:
voice: $0.04/minute
sms: $0.02/text
mms: $0.10/message
data: $0.33/MB
So it's 250 minutes/month if all you use is voice minutes.  I'm a light user and use a mix of voice, text, and data.  Plus any unused balance rolls over into the next month.  It works with my AT&T iPhone without the need to unlock the phone since Airvoice uses AT&T's network.  I do toggle Cellular Data to OFF in Settings->General->Network most of the time, but it's nice to be able to use 3G data on occasion.

[Money4Nothing]

IP, thanks for the amazing breakdown!  I had to set up a profile just to thank you for your effort on this.  Very helpful.  Great work!

[Daley]

IP, thanks for the amazing breakdown!  I had to set up a profile just to thank you for your effort on this.  Very helpful.  Great work!

Glad to have helped, and welcome to the MMM forums!