Author Topic: Brag on your MMM high-mileage or old car  (Read 103803 times)

ketchup

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Re: Brag on your MMM high-mileage or old car
« Reply #550 on: October 11, 2017, 01:34:04 PM »
So far I'm loving the Sonata. Except for when I installed my own Bluetooth stereo for the first time and accidentally shorted the 'Illumination' wire from the car harness. Blew my RH Tail light fuse- which is also the Instrument panel cluster fuse (?). Anyway, had a spare in the box AND a clever little removal tool (Thanks, Hyundai!). Up and running after fixing the short. Not the Sonata's problem, just an idiot problem xD

First oil change and time under the car was last night. Oil looked like hell, which is surprising because this was a change based entirely by date rather than miles, but whatever. Spark plugs changed, were rusted in the holes pretty well and worn to crap, and the giant 'idiot shield' placed on the bottom of the car took a bit to pull off to get access to the filter.

And the serpentine belt looks scary as hell. The metro it went Crank -> Water -> Alternator.

This one is... considerably more serpentine.

On the plus side, the factory service manual is a *dream*. Even to the point of listing all the bolt sizes used in the car, and their relevant general torque values, if not covered anywhere else. And they took over 100 pictures to show you where stuff is. *swoon*
Very nice.

Yeah, nothing will be quite as simple as the Metro.  Once you throw luxuries like air conditioning and power steering, belts get more complicated.  Oddly, once you figure out the path, I've found the long belts easier to replace since there's usually just a simple tensioner holding it and you don't need to remove any pulleys.

BiochemicalDJ

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Re: Brag on your MMM high-mileage or old car
« Reply #551 on: October 11, 2017, 01:42:35 PM »
That may indeed be the case regarding ease of belt replacement, but right now (just looking without trying it) it looks knuckle-skinningly tight up against that wall. Probably would feel different if I actually had to *do* something with it, but right now it was replaced ~20,000 kms ago.

That's the other thing. This dealership was replacing every one of her bushings when she had a squeak in the suspension, replaced her serpentine belt twice in 40,000 kms (what the hell?) and charged her $1500 to replace the timing cover gasket due to a leak, and the rocker cover and oil pan gaskets... just for giggles?

Reading those service orders/tech responses was a bit of a head scratcher. Props out to the dealership for giving me such a detailed history, though. And by e-mail, no less.
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DavidAnnArbor

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Re: Brag on your MMM high-mileage or old car
« Reply #552 on: October 11, 2017, 03:00:39 PM »
So bottom line the dealership took advantage of their customer.

BiochemicalDJ

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Re: Brag on your MMM high-mileage or old car
« Reply #553 on: October 11, 2017, 03:14:16 PM »
It's looking more and more likely. I mean, the customer brought it in multiple times complaining of squeaks from the suspension. One time, they just lubricated a part- no more squeaks. Other times, they seemingly replaced bushings almost at random- first one set, then, a few months, another, then, the same as the first- (usually bushings can last a *long* time, so this is unusual.) The whole time, the customer was under the impression that they had 'all new suspension', but the dealership didn't have it in their heart to correct the customer to say 'I just paid $400 for all new "small pieces of rubber/polyurethane that stop squeaks/vibrations."

Apparently one of the techs or advisors told the customer that these Sonatas were legendary for crap suspension (somewhat true) because of their oversized V6 engine and undersized suspension components for it- Which is totally in the realm of fantasy, because this thing isn't a V6 engine, it's an inline 4. So the customer had it listed on Craigslist as a V6 the whole time with pictures of the engine proudly stating on it that it had 16 valves.

I'll tell you they just did the brake lines x4 and I was just underneath it last night- didn't get a good look, but the shielding over the lines themselves looked a little wonky/crooked. Probably bears some more investigating.

It's interesting to see that even though they only installed 'Genuine Hyundai Parts' (at presumably what must be Genuine Hyundai Prices), the worksmanship can be so shoddy. One of the bolts from the 'idiot shield' on the bottom of the car was utterly rounded off- and they just left it there and ripped the shield off it.

So I guess the moral of the story is, there's crap mechanics everywhere, and they're not always the cheapest. The labour rate for these guys is $130 CAD / hour.

I'm trying to break it to the previous owner gently (they're a friend) but they completely believe that understanding cars (and their maintenance) are beyond their abilities... Or they just don't want to spend the time.

And then they went and bought a 2017 Sonata for $26K to replace this one. From the dealership that had been so 'Helpful'.
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DavidAnnArbor

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Re: Brag on your MMM high-mileage or old car
« Reply #554 on: October 11, 2017, 03:32:18 PM »
It's disheartening to read this. I'm happy I can change the oil on my car and a few minor things, but I probably should take one of those, "repair it yourself auto classes," if I can find one.

PC2K

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Re: Brag on your MMM high-mileage or old car
« Reply #555 on: October 12, 2017, 06:07:10 AM »
I also have mixed experience from dealers. Used to go to a Hyundai dealer that was just fine; they were bought over by a different company; the service after that... well let say I never went back and a year later they lost the Hyundai name.


paddedhat

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Re: Brag on your MMM high-mileage or old car
« Reply #556 on: October 12, 2017, 06:44:49 AM »
I also have mixed experience from dealers. Used to go to a Hyundai dealer that was just fine; they were bought over by a different company; the service after that... well let say I never went back and a year later they lost the Hyundai name.

Wow, based on my market area,  I would imagine that you pretty much have to be a Hyundai franchisee, owned and operated by the devil himself, to lose it. I had an business associate in the finance end of the car business, who had inside knowledge of the local dealer. He had endless stories of the unethical, and illegal crap that the dealer would pull, when it comes to sales and financing. At one point he caught their finance manager placing post-it notes over contract details like APRs and contract terms, while lying and quickly rushing customers through the loan application process. The guy pulling this was the son of a close friend. He told the kid that he had was playing with fire, and when it all hit the fan the dealer would toss him under the bus the second the State's AG office walked in the door.  That dealer was part of a multi- brand chain. IIRC, Chrysler revoked their franchise, GM forced them to totally clean house of all management, and they never skipped a beat in the Hyundai store, while advertising crap like "$7000 over Kelly Blue Book for your trade" and " A brand new Sonata for $79 a month!"  I wouldn't walk into a Hyundai dealer unless I really had to pee, other than that there really is no reason to be there.

marielle

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Re: Brag on your MMM high-mileage or old car
« Reply #557 on: October 12, 2017, 06:56:31 AM »
So I sent an oil sample from my car to a lab. I used synthetic oil and ran it for 6000 miles on my car that now has 160k miles. Oil came back in great shape, no excess metals, coolant, or anything other than a slight elevation in silicone (probably just need to clean/replace my air filter but they said it's not much of a concern if everything looks fine).

Not too bad for an engine with 160k miles that most people think is an unreliable car (2003 Eclipse)! They suggested an 8000 mile oil change interval, so the $28 for the analysis will actually save me money and time. At the rate I'm driving now, I might have to actually change my oil based on time not miles.

Unfortunately I'm expecting the transmission to be the first to go, the automatics aren't very reliable and the previous owner already replaced it at 118k miles with a used one.

birdman2003

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Re: Brag on your MMM high-mileage or old car
« Reply #558 on: October 12, 2017, 07:15:01 AM »
I made a mistake in early 2010 by buying a 2004 Acura TL with 89k miles on it for $16k.  Wish I had bought a $5k car and put that $11k difference into VTSAX.  Over the last 7.5 years I have hit a deer twice (same time of night, different deer, same spot on car) and put a lot of miles on it (several trips a year across the midwest to visit friends and family).

Now in 2017 it has 271k miles and a private party KBB estimate of $3k.

I would be thrilled if I got to 300k or more.  Does anybody have an early 2000's Honda Accord or Acura TL that has surpassed 300k?

I'm looking at a Chevy Cruze or Toyota Prius for my new daily driver.

Roots&Wings

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Re: Brag on your MMM high-mileage or old car
« Reply #559 on: October 12, 2017, 07:17:53 AM »
I stopped going to the dealer for service for my 04 Honda (now at 99k miles) because the Honda dealers tried to tell me I needed expensive repairs for issues that could be an "emergency" unless fixed "immediately" costing a small fortune, which was not the case at all. Two local Honda dealers did this. Thankfully found a good independent place.

birdman2003

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Re: Brag on your MMM high-mileage or old car
« Reply #560 on: October 12, 2017, 07:25:58 AM »
Yeah, I agree.  It's good to find an independent shop.  I looked up the private party KBB for a 2004 Honda Accord with 99k miles on it and found a value of about $6k in my zip code.  Interesting.

DavidAnnArbor

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Re: Brag on your MMM high-mileage or old car
« Reply #561 on: October 12, 2017, 08:07:17 AM »


I'm looking at a Chevy Cruze or Toyota Prius for my new daily driver.

Yes I'm thinking about one of those cars too. I have a 2007 Prius with 277,000 miles on it, and I believe I should retire it soon.

farmecologist

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Re: Brag on your MMM high-mileage or old car
« Reply #562 on: October 12, 2017, 08:12:47 AM »


I'm looking at a Chevy Cruze or Toyota Prius for my new daily driver.

Yes I'm thinking about one of those cars too. I have a 2007 Prius with 277,000 miles on it, and I believe I should retire it soon.

Our 2010 Prius is almost at 100K miles.  It has been the most rock solid car we have ever owned in terms of fuel costs and maintenance costs ( none other than oil changes ). 

However, be careful with the 2010's...there seems to be a trend of them burning a bit of oil as they age ( ours does ).   2010 was the first year of the 'gen 3' models...so maybe it has something to do with that.  However, Toyota has not owned up to anything yet.  If I were to do it again, I would look for a 2011+ model year.


birdman2003

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Re: Brag on your MMM high-mileage or old car
« Reply #563 on: October 12, 2017, 12:00:23 PM »

However, be careful with the 2010's...there seems to be a trend of them burning a bit of oil as they age ( ours does ).   2010 was the first year of the 'gen 3' models...so maybe it has something to do with that.  However, Toyota has not owned up to anything yet.  If I were to do it again, I would look for a 2011+ model year.

Good to know. Thanks

paddedhat

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Re: Brag on your MMM high-mileage or old car
« Reply #564 on: October 12, 2017, 12:20:21 PM »
I stopped going to the dealer for service for my 04 Honda (now at 99k miles) because the Honda dealers tried to tell me I needed expensive repairs for issues that could be an "emergency" unless fixed "immediately" costing a small fortune, which was not the case at all. Two local Honda dealers did this. Thankfully found a good independent place.

As a long time Honda owner, I have a warranty work only policy when it comes to dealers. Even then I make then write, "do not do courtesy check on vehicle" right on the work order. The game is to get the car on the lift, find (or lie about) things that need to be done to the vehicle,  and try to find as much to up-sell as possible. I was in Fl. in late spring, with four well worn  tires. They were totally safe, with even wear and plenty of tread left. Since I was on the road, with no tools or a garage to work in, I took the thing to the dealer for a transmission service, and oil change.  This involves a ten minute job of draining and filling exactly three quarts of trans. fluid, using $30 worth of fluid and a washer. They agreed to do it for $99, but recommended a $179 "Flush service" that Honda specifically cautions AGAINST doing, ever. They managed to do the trans. correctly, but the "quick lane tech" managed to put 5-1/2 QTS. of oil in while doing the oil change,  since apparently putting the correct 4.2 quarts back in, is too difficult to handle. I had to buy a disposable roasting pan and drain the extra out myself.  The best part was that, as soon as I handed the keys over, the service writer was in the lounge to give me a solemn talk about how dangerous my tires were. I told him to drop it. As soon as it hit the lift for the trans. service, ANOTHER service writer took another crack at literally attempting to scare me into putting tires on, since it was too dangerous to drive. I drove those tires for another 5K miles before they were truly worn out, with no issues. As I paid the bill, they handed me a bill for $109 plus tax for the trans. service. They tried to add a $10 "environmental fee". They balked at taking it off, until I explained that I would put it on a Visa, and dispute the charge, so it was coming off now or later.

Since then I was in for warranty and had a service writer tell me that he found severely corroded rotors on the car and he could fix the problem for $250. I knew he was working a scam, but I asked what that work involved specifically? He was proposing removing all the rotors then "sanding" them and reinstalling. Since I knew that any decent mechanic could make rusty rotors shine with five minutes of work per rotor, using a small air grinder with a sanding attachment, and never remove anything but the wheels. I tried not to laugh. Good gig if you can get it, the tech. spend half an hour on the task, you bill for $250. The most recent attempted screwing was another warranty repair. Once a year I put new OEM engine air and cabin air filters on the car. The pair are about $45, online. Shortly after doing so, a service writer offered to change the dirt engine and cabin filters for $150.  Let's review his offer. He would remove and dispose of $45 worth of new clean filters, and install a matching set. This takes about five minutes and requires no tools, for the low, low, low price of $150.........................um, no.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2017, 12:50:06 PM by paddedhat »

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Brag on your MMM high-mileage or old car
« Reply #565 on: October 12, 2017, 12:47:30 PM »
Once a year I put new OEM engine air and cabin air filters on the car. The pair are about $45, online. Shortly after doing so, a service writer offered to change the dirt engine and cabin filters for $150.  Lets review, remove and dispose of $45 worth of new clean filter, and install a fresh set. This takes about five minutes and requires no tools, for the low, low, low price of $150.........................um, no.
Wow.  That's pretty low.  We recently took our '06 Odyssey in for a recall on the fuel filter.  They had it done in a couple hours, no upsell, nothing extra, just straightforward, pleasant service.  Although I overheard them upselling a customer right behind us who had come in for regular maintenance.

I'll still do as much of my own work as I can.  It saves sooooo much money.

I made a mistake in early 2010 by buying a 2004 Acura TL with 89k miles on it for $16k.  Wish I had bought a $5k car and put that $11k difference into VTSAX.  Over the last 7.5 years I have hit a deer twice (same time of night, different deer, same spot on car) and put a lot of miles on it (several trips a year across the midwest to visit friends and family).

Now in 2017 it has 271k miles and a private party KBB estimate of $3k.

I would be thrilled if I got to 300k or more.  Does anybody have an early 2000's Honda Accord or Acura TL that has surpassed 300k?
271k miles and a value of $3k?  That's pretty crazy.

The Hondas from that era are known for two things: 1) transmissions blowing up on V6 engines, and 2) otherwise lasting forever, given regular maintenance.

JanetJackson

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Re: Brag on your MMM high-mileage or old car
« Reply #566 on: October 12, 2017, 01:44:08 PM »
Agreed, look into this if you can.  I really really loved my 99 Tacoma Pre-Runner, but when mine failed the test and they offered me 1.5x the KBB excellent value on buyback, I couldn't pass it up and sold it back to them (I paid $4,900 for it and walked away with a bit less than 12k).  I have always sooooort of regretted it, because that truck was great, but I have had a lot of great vehicles.


1999 toyota tacoma 2wd based model

bought it 3yrs ago with 33,000 mi

cost $4,000 and helping a friend move
Depending on the state you live in your truck qualifies for the undercoating/frame replacement due to the rust issues they've had. They replaced mine ($11,200 bill) when I was already past 200k miles on it hahaha.

DavidAnnArbor

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Re: Brag on your MMM high-mileage or old car
« Reply #567 on: October 12, 2017, 04:00:29 PM »
Wow paddlehat that's an incredibly well written story about how badly these dealerships can be.

paddedhat

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Re: Brag on your MMM high-mileage or old car
« Reply #568 on: October 12, 2017, 04:34:35 PM »
Wow paddlehat that's an incredibly well written story about how badly these dealerships can be.

Thanks for the kind word. A buddy of mine is in the industry, and explained to me that the big three headed toward trying to make their vehicles as maintenance free as possible to counter the behavior of the Japanese and German dealer experience here in the states.  You buy a small Chevy, or similar, and it often has no requirements for brake flushing, trans, or coolant maintenance, or other significant service for the first 100K, or more, miles. They also throw in things like roadside service and oil changes for a few years, in some cases.  So the thinking goes like this.

You have a Camry or Accord, and it is a good vehicle, totally trouble free in fact. Sadly, your ownership experience has been less than satisfactory, since there is a significant maintenance schedule to follow, AND every time you take it in, the service writer finds several additional maintenance, or small repair items that they strongly recommend.(fuel system flush sound familiar?)  Not to mention that they charge obscene rates to do basic maintenance tasks. At the end of four years, you're still a fan of the brand, but really tired of what you suspect is an unreasonable cost of ownership, and fairly confident that the dealer has been screwing you all along. You drop all your receipts on the table and discover that you have spent about a grand a year to keep the thing well maintained, based on dutifully following your "service adviser's recommendations".  One day you see an ad for a brand new Malibu, and it looks pretty sharp. You do some shopping and find out that it's three or four grand less than the new Honda you looked at. Then the salesperson tells you that it needs oil changes when the computer tells you to, which is every 8-10K miles, and you should rotate the tires, and the dealer does all that for the first two years. You then ask about the brake fluid, coolant, timing belt, and transmission service, or any other $5-600 thing you had to do every 30K miles on the Honda, or any of the other stuff you spent $4K on, in the last four years? At this point you hear the sweet music that closes the deal, "no, you don't need to think about any of that stuff for the first 100K miles. You don't need to be a genius to figure out that a car that's $4K less, costs $4K less to maintain, and has all the stuff you want, is probably worth taking a chance on.

The sad part is, obsessive maintenance can really make a car last a hell of a lot longer, and car manufacturers selling you on very low maintenance requirements are not interested in seeing that vehicle go 250-300K miles, since it won't.   But it only makes sense if you DIY it, or have a trusted affordable mechanic that will do it for you. My CRV gets things like a trans. service every 15K miles, and a rear differential fluid change every 30K. Stuff that literally costs me $15-25 bucks and 15 minutes on my back in my garage. At the Honda dealer these things can run you $100 to 200 each.

Pooperman

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Re: Brag on your MMM high-mileage or old car
« Reply #569 on: October 12, 2017, 06:01:48 PM »
I work in the auto industry now, so thankfully I've got a few recommendations on who to bring my car to when it needs work. The car (2006 Sonata) has 72k miles now. No issues or maintenance needed besides regular oil changes.

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Brag on your MMM high-mileage or old car
« Reply #570 on: October 12, 2017, 06:12:25 PM »
At this point you hear the sweet music that closes the deal, "no, you don't need to think about any of that stuff for the first 100K miles. You don't need to be a genius to figure out that a car that's $4K less, costs $4K less to maintain, and has all the stuff you want, is probably worth taking a chance on.

The sad part is, obsessive maintenance can really make a car last a hell of a lot longer, and car manufacturers selling you on very low maintenance requirements are not interested in seeing that vehicle go 250-300K miles, since it won't.   But it only makes sense if you DIY it, or have a trusted affordable mechanic that will do it for you. My CRV gets things like a trans. service every 15K miles, and a rear differential fluid change every 30K. Stuff that literally costs me $15-25 bucks and 15 minutes on my back in my garage. At the Honda dealer these things can run you $100 to 200 each.
So here's my question:  do they give out the 100k miles number because that's how long the car will last without any (non-oil, non-tire) maintenance?  Or is there some sort of magical pixie fluid in the transmission that can last that long?  Or, put another way, will the car fall apart at 100,001 miles if I follow their schedule, and last to 250k if I do more frequent maintenance (transmission, brake fluid, antifreeze, etc)?

paddedhat

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Re: Brag on your MMM high-mileage or old car
« Reply #571 on: October 12, 2017, 07:08:55 PM »
Can only give you my experience and reports from a few guys I know, who turn wrenches for a living.  The first to really stretch things like oil changes to the max were the high end Euro brands. One buddy reports a steady stream of work repairing 100K + miles Mercedes and BMWs with extremely expensive internal wear related engine damage, and a history of 11-15K mile intervals on oil changes, They usually arrive to his shop on a rollback.  My son runs a company issued F150 with the EcoBoost multi-turbo motor. He was doing oil with synthetic at 5K intervals. He was told that he was required to use onboard maintenance minder to determine when the oil "Really" needed to be changed. At 60K he started to go to roughly 8K intervals as the computer required. By 80K the engine needed $3000 in internal repairs. Another field supervisor, with the exact same truck had the same issue. The same thing applies to "sealed for life, maintenance free" auto transmissions. They run till they puke, and were not talking 300k miles here. You get a new or factory reman. unit delivered to the shop, and swap it out. Profitable and easy for the dealer. Probably would not of happened with a regiment of 30K fluid and filter service on a traditional automatic. I've had too many cars and trucks to keep track of, especially having owned a construction business in the past. I always made an effort to swap most fluids on a 30K or 2-3 year basis, and have never put a transmission in anything except a Focus I got cheap for my daughter. I suspected that trans. was not long for the world when I bought it. I've seen many people in the construction trades and other lines of work, who have put mind blowing amounts of mileage on everything from Chevy vans and Ford pickups to CRVs used as rural mail delivery vehicles. In every case they did regular maintenance. I have had friends who had company trucks while working for a giant excavating outfit. The company had a policy that a light vehicle ( Ford Ranger to F550 size) was only finished if was totaled in a wreck, or had over 400K miles on it, and needed a major drivetrain component. They were big enough to have a repair shop, a body shop and road service and maintenance. They take meticulous care of their fleet, since it gives them the chance to get an average service life that far exceeded what the average Joe ever thought was possible. When it comes to little used, larger specialty trucks, they have some forty and fifty year old trucks on the road.

As you might imagine, I'm not buying into the whole low maintenance/ maintenance free game. It does make it hard to buy a used car lately though. Last year we were looking to upgrade our CRV to a newer one, and I had to pass up on quite a few until I found one that had an acceptable, documented service history. The number of three year old trade-ins and lease returns that were obviously abused, on dealers lots, is pretty scary. Nothing to see a car with nearly bald front tires, and 3X the tread on the rears, since nobody bother to rotate them, no service history, 2-3 brands of tires, and all kinds of odd issues.

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Brag on your MMM high-mileage or old car
« Reply #572 on: October 12, 2017, 07:19:22 PM »
As you might imagine, I'm not buying into the whole low maintenance/ maintenance free game.
Yeah, me neither.  our '06 odyssey has one of those "sealed" transmission, i.e. you can change the fluid, but in order to get to the filter, you have to separate the engine and transmission.  Ugh.

DavidAnnArbor

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Re: Brag on your MMM high-mileage or old car
« Reply #573 on: October 12, 2017, 07:34:36 PM »
Wow I didn't realize one should drain fill the transmission oil so frequently. For the Prius, it says to do it every 180,000 miles.

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Re: Brag on your MMM high-mileage or old car
« Reply #574 on: October 12, 2017, 07:54:15 PM »
Can only give you my experience and reports from a few guys I know, who turn wrenches for a living.  The first to really stretch things like oil changes to the max were the high end Euro brands. One buddy reports a steady stream of work repairing 100K + miles Mercedes and BMWs with extremely expensive internal wear related engine damage, and a history of 11-15K mile intervals on oil changes, They usually arrive to his shop on a rollback.  My son runs a company issued F150 with the EcoBoost multi-turbo motor. He was doing oil with synthetic at 5K intervals. He was told that he was required to use onboard maintenance minder to determine when the oil "Really" needed to be changed. At 60K he started to go to roughly 8K intervals as the computer required. By 80K the engine needed $3000 in internal repairs. Another field supervisor, with the exact same truck had the same issue. The same thing applies to "sealed for life, maintenance free" auto transmissions. They run till they puke, and were not talking 300k miles here. You get a new or factory reman. unit delivered to the shop, and swap it out. Profitable and easy for the dealer. Probably would not of happened with a regiment of 30K fluid and filter service on a traditional automatic. I've had too many cars and trucks to keep track of, especially having owned a construction business in the past. I always made an effort to swap most fluids on a 30K or 2-3 year basis, and have never put a transmission in anything except a Focus I got cheap for my daughter. I suspected that trans. was not long for the world when I bought it. I've seen many people in the construction trades and other lines of work, who have put mind blowing amounts of mileage on everything from Chevy vans and Ford pickups to CRVs used as rural mail delivery vehicles. In every case they did regular maintenance. I have had friends who had company trucks while working for a giant excavating outfit. The company had a policy that a light vehicle ( Ford Ranger to F550 size) was only finished if was totaled in a wreck, or had over 400K miles on it, and needed a major drivetrain component. They were big enough to have a repair shop, a body shop and road service and maintenance. They take meticulous care of their fleet, since it gives them the chance to get an average service life that far exceeded what the average Joe ever thought was possible. When it comes to little used, larger specialty trucks, they have some forty and fifty year old trucks on the road.

As you might imagine, I'm not buying into the whole low maintenance/ maintenance free game. It does make it hard to buy a used car lately though. Last year we were looking to upgrade our CRV to a newer one, and I had to pass up on quite a few until I found one that had an acceptable, documented service history. The number of three year old trade-ins and lease returns that were obviously abused, on dealers lots, is pretty scary. Nothing to see a car with nearly bald front tires, and 3X the tread on the rears, since nobody bother to rotate them, no service history, 2-3 brands of tires, and all kinds of odd issues.

So we've got an '09 F150 and are following the manufacturer's recommendation of 7500 mi intervals - does that mean we're destroying the engine? Where would I find the "best" maintenance schedule if I can't trust what Ford says? I am not mechanically inclined (every single time I try to take something apart I have to get DH to help me put it back together) but I keep good records and am great about getting maintenance done on time.


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JLee

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Re: Brag on your MMM high-mileage or old car
« Reply #575 on: October 12, 2017, 08:04:25 PM »
Can only give you my experience and reports from a few guys I know, who turn wrenches for a living.  The first to really stretch things like oil changes to the max were the high end Euro brands. One buddy reports a steady stream of work repairing 100K + miles Mercedes and BMWs with extremely expensive internal wear related engine damage, and a history of 11-15K mile intervals on oil changes, They usually arrive to his shop on a rollback.  My son runs a company issued F150 with the EcoBoost multi-turbo motor. He was doing oil with synthetic at 5K intervals. He was told that he was required to use onboard maintenance minder to determine when the oil "Really" needed to be changed. At 60K he started to go to roughly 8K intervals as the computer required. By 80K the engine needed $3000 in internal repairs. Another field supervisor, with the exact same truck had the same issue. The same thing applies to "sealed for life, maintenance free" auto transmissions. They run till they puke, and were not talking 300k miles here. You get a new or factory reman. unit delivered to the shop, and swap it out. Profitable and easy for the dealer. Probably would not of happened with a regiment of 30K fluid and filter service on a traditional automatic. I've had too many cars and trucks to keep track of, especially having owned a construction business in the past. I always made an effort to swap most fluids on a 30K or 2-3 year basis, and have never put a transmission in anything except a Focus I got cheap for my daughter. I suspected that trans. was not long for the world when I bought it. I've seen many people in the construction trades and other lines of work, who have put mind blowing amounts of mileage on everything from Chevy vans and Ford pickups to CRVs used as rural mail delivery vehicles. In every case they did regular maintenance. I have had friends who had company trucks while working for a giant excavating outfit. The company had a policy that a light vehicle ( Ford Ranger to F550 size) was only finished if was totaled in a wreck, or had over 400K miles on it, and needed a major drivetrain component. They were big enough to have a repair shop, a body shop and road service and maintenance. They take meticulous care of their fleet, since it gives them the chance to get an average service life that far exceeded what the average Joe ever thought was possible. When it comes to little used, larger specialty trucks, they have some forty and fifty year old trucks on the road.

As you might imagine, I'm not buying into the whole low maintenance/ maintenance free game. It does make it hard to buy a used car lately though. Last year we were looking to upgrade our CRV to a newer one, and I had to pass up on quite a few until I found one that had an acceptable, documented service history. The number of three year old trade-ins and lease returns that were obviously abused, on dealers lots, is pretty scary. Nothing to see a car with nearly bald front tires, and 3X the tread on the rears, since nobody bother to rotate them, no service history, 2-3 brands of tires, and all kinds of odd issues.

So we've got an '09 F150 and are following the manufacturer's recommendation of 7500 mi intervals - does that mean we're destroying the engine? Where would I find the "best" maintenance schedule if I can't trust what Ford says? I am not mechanically inclined (every single time I try to take something apart I have to get DH to help me put it back together) but I keep good records and am great about getting maintenance done on time.


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It'll be fine.

If you're concerned, send an oil sample in to be analyzed. Blackstone Labs, Wix, and Amsoil offer this service - quite possibly others as well. It's about $25 and will tell you how your oil is doing.

farmecologist

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Re: Brag on your MMM high-mileage or old car
« Reply #576 on: October 13, 2017, 07:47:29 AM »
I work in the auto industry now, so thankfully I've got a few recommendations on who to bring my car to when it needs work. The car (2006 Sonata) has 72k miles now. No issues or maintenance needed besides regular oil changes.

I'm not sure why so many people *still* give Hyundai a bad time...they build some solid cars.  I see lots of old Sonatas on the road and they still look sharp.  We have a 2012 Sonata and it has been extremely solid...no maintenance needed other than oil changes.

Pooperman

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Re: Brag on your MMM high-mileage or old car
« Reply #577 on: October 13, 2017, 07:53:32 AM »
I work in the auto industry now, so thankfully I've got a few recommendations on who to bring my car to when it needs work. The car (2006 Sonata) has 72k miles now. No issues or maintenance needed besides regular oil changes.

I'm not sure why so many people *still* give Hyundai a bad time...they build some solid cars.  I see lots of old Sonatas on the road and they still look sharp.  We have a 2012 Sonata and it has been extremely solid...no maintenance needed other than oil changes.

The 2006 ones are the beginning of the better Hyundais. The ones from years before that were not great, hence the reputation. Now, they're on par with most other long-lasting cars.

BiochemicalDJ

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Re: Brag on your MMM high-mileage or old car
« Reply #578 on: October 13, 2017, 08:19:28 AM »
So we've got an '09 F150 and are following the manufacturer's recommendation of 7500 mi intervals - does that mean we're destroying the engine? Where would I find the "best" maintenance schedule if I can't trust what Ford says? I am not mechanically inclined (every single time I try to take something apart I have to get DH to help me put it back together) but I keep good records and am great about getting maintenance done on time.

Double check the manual- there are going to be two maintenance schedules. 'Regular' and 'Severe'. If you look for the fine print, they define what 'severe' means- including things like stop and go traffic, idling, short (<10 mile) trips, and any driving below 0F, or in hot/dusty conditions.

Essentially, you'd be pretty hard pressed to find a car in say, the Northeastern USA or in Canada that doesn't fit the bill for 'Severe' service- Salt, cold, snow, traffic...

It basically changes a couple of intervals- the Transmission Fluid 'Severe' is things like driving on hills, in the winter, or *ever towing anything*. It's astonishing how the intervals change violently- My Sonata's regular Trans fluid service is something like ever 100K or 5 years, whichever comes first, and the 'severe' drops it down to about 30K miles or 30 months, whichever comes first

So you really can't go wrong always using the 'severe' schedule for your cars- it's how taxi fleets go forever, cop cars, etc. etc.

But to each their own. Much like others in the forum, 40 minutes on my back, 2 ramps, 2 jackstands, a socket set and 2 torque wrenches (fine and coarse, and *theoretically* optional) buys me an oil change/transmission fluid change, air filters (cabin and engine), and spark plugs. Coolant takes longer ('cause it includes a flush). Spark plugs too. (though you'd never want to try and take the coil packs off a 2007 sonata without finding out how the clippies work- first pull locking tab A, then squeeze the connector *directly in the center* of tab B to remove...). The Youtube Guy I was watching do it didn't even bother, and had to remove the entire power rail the coils were attached to (unnecessarily) which brings me to my next point-

Many of the standard maintenance are easy as pie when you go to the library, get your service manual (check for a subscription to 'AllData' or any other service manual database) and it tells you where all the little tabs/screwy screws are. With pictures and torque values. Worst case scenario, spend a few bucks and buy the "Factory Service Manual" (not Chilton's or Hayne's, though those are both reasonable- try for the actual manufacturer), and for less than the cost of one dealership oil change, you can at least see what you're up against.

Seriously, people- if you've ever built an Ikea desk, many car maintenance tasks are certainly not beyond you. Just make sure to take all recommended safety precautions while working, and if you get in over your head, call a professional.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2017, 08:28:48 AM by BiochemicalDJ »
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paddedhat

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Re: Brag on your MMM high-mileage or old car
« Reply #579 on: October 13, 2017, 08:42:53 AM »
Wow I didn't realize one should drain fill the transmission oil so frequently. For the Prius, it says to do it every 180,000 miles.

Believe me, I have zero interest in telling anybody what "should" be done. There are many who believe that the manufacturer is all knowing, and can be relied upon to provide maintenance schedules that are in your best interest. There are many others who believe the marketing hype that oil is now magical, and lasts 12-15K miles and more.  I'll just put it this way. I had a very experienced  head mechanic from the local Honda dealer, riding with me in our CRV. I told him that I DIY the Honda Trans. service every 15K, the rear diff. every 30K and engine oil every 5K, with an OEM filter and Mobil one, and asked his opinion of that schedule? I was particularly interested since that schedule is way beyond Honda's recommendations. He thought a minute and said, "that's exactly how I would maintain this thing, with the understanding that a Wix or NAPA gold filter is just as good as OEM". He also noted that there is no serviceable filter on the trans, no directive to ever drop the pan, and it holds eleven quarts, of which three are getting swapped. So, in his opinion, the best hope for a Honda trans. lasting the life of the car is to change it at least every 30K. 

YMMV, buy some engines and transmissions are now extremely complex, and built to extreme tolerances. Thinking that extended schedules, or even sealed "maintenance free" in the case of trannies, is a good thing, IMHO, is nothing but a hope, backed by zero evidence, and counter to basic logic.

DavidAnnArbor

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Re: Brag on your MMM high-mileage or old car
« Reply #580 on: October 13, 2017, 04:27:28 PM »
Well that's good to find out.  I'm going to try to learn how to change the spark plugs on my engine. Probably I can get some help on priuschat.org

Roots&Wings

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Re: Brag on your MMM high-mileage or old car
« Reply #581 on: October 14, 2017, 07:27:26 AM »
Ditto, I'm also going to try spark plugs, and transmission fluid based on paddedhat's feedback.

sequoia

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Re: Brag on your MMM high-mileage or old car
« Reply #582 on: October 16, 2017, 01:32:00 AM »
Many of the standard maintenance are easy as pie when you go to the library, get your service manual (check for a subscription to 'AllData' or any other service manual database) and it tells you where all the little tabs/screwy screws are. With pictures and torque values. Worst case scenario, spend a few bucks and buy the "Factory Service Manual" (not Chilton's or Hayne's, though those are both reasonable- try for the actual manufacturer), and for less than the cost of one dealership oil change, you can at least see what you're up against.

Seriously, people- if you've ever built an Ikea desk, many car maintenance tasks are certainly not beyond you. Just make sure to take all recommended safety precautions while working, and if you get in over your head, call a professional.

Plenty of youtube video that show simple maintenance like oil change for almost any cars, or find a forum specific for that car and usually someone has documented how to's with picture or short video.

What is most important is to be safe, especially if you need to jack up the car and crawl under it. Not trying to scare anyone, but plenty of people got hurt or killed working on their cars. It may look easy and simple, but if you are new at this, please do read up and learn the proper way. It helps if you have a friend who can come over and give some pointers, definitely worth beer and pizza.


EarthSurfer

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Re: Brag on your MMM high-mileage or old car
« Reply #583 on: October 16, 2017, 04:50:30 AM »
If you are lifting a vehicle to work under it, please, please, please use either ramps or jack stands. Both ramps and jack stands provide stable mechanical support.

The jacks included with most vehicles are not stable or safe enough for life safety when there is someone under the vehicle.
Retired early, retired often since 1998...

DavidAnnArbor

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Re: Brag on your MMM high-mileage or old car
« Reply #584 on: October 16, 2017, 04:53:55 AM »
I've been using ramps to raise my front wheels up to change the oil. I hope that's ok.

paddedhat

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Re: Brag on your MMM high-mileage or old car
« Reply #585 on: October 16, 2017, 05:43:02 AM »

I'm not sure why so many people *still* give Hyundai a bad time...they build some solid cars.  I see lots of old Sonatas on the road and they still look sharp.  We have a 2012 Sonata and it has been extremely solid...no maintenance needed other than oil changes.

I think SOME solid cars is about as accurate as it gets with Hyundai. My brother just left a 2013 Sonata at the dealer for about 2-1/2 months, while awaiting a new engine. Thanks to their extended drivetrain warranties, he didn't spend a dime, and got thousands of dollars worth of free rental car use also. At one point, about a month in, he stopped by the dealer and asked when he was getting his car back? The service department told him that he was fifth in line, out of a total of thirteen Sonatas waiting for new engines, and it could be another 2-3 months. Apparently there is no shortage of various Hyundai products with engines that self destruct. Had this happened a few months later, his car would of had in excess of 100K miles on it, and he would of been out of warranty. Like a lot of their new car buyers, my brother life it typically a financial cluster-F and he would of had a $5K repair bill on a car that he is upside down on.

Before investing more than "beater car" money on a Hyundai, I would be well versed in exactly what engines, in what models, are likely to grenade, and if it has a documented factory replacement, and maintenance history.

PC2K

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Re: Brag on your MMM high-mileage or old car
« Reply #586 on: October 16, 2017, 07:58:43 AM »
In Europe Hyundai is actually considered pretty reliable, atleast the ones from this millenium. I'm on my second (first just worked fine and never let me stranded, but wanted something newer).

We do get different models and engine.

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Re: Brag on your MMM high-mileage or old car
« Reply #587 on: October 16, 2017, 09:08:46 AM »
The ford escape hybrid is 10k miles away from 250k today.  can wait to see it hit 500k.  - if we dont have self driving electric cars that make owning one at all cost prohibitive at that point.
Best super bonuses on Credit cards right now - ask me how to Mfg spend to meet the sign up bonus

1. Delta Gold 60k miles Ends November 8th!!

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sequoia

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Re: Brag on your MMM high-mileage or old car
« Reply #588 on: October 16, 2017, 10:14:45 AM »
If you are lifting a vehicle to work under it, please, please, please use either ramps or jack stands. Both ramps and jack stands provide stable mechanical support.

The jacks included with most vehicles are not stable or safe enough for life safety when there is someone under the vehicle.

And what a lot of people think that is not important: wheel chocks.

A while back, next door neighbor jacked up his car, took driver side front wheel off, but did not have wheel chocks. While he was working on it, the car started to slide backward because the garage has a slope. I happened to step outside, and saw him pushing the back of the car. He was trying to stop the car from moving backward. He was in a panic and yelled at me for help. If the car kept moving backward, it would come off the jack and crashed into the pavement.  I ran back inside grab my wheel chocks and secure the car.

Until he moved out many months later, as far as I know, I do not think he ever bought a wheel chocks (~$5 at WalMart). I cringed every time I see him working on his car. Some people just do not learn from past experience.

EDIT: noticed the other day that wife's SUV has over 230K.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2017, 09:58:21 AM by sequoia »

middo

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Re: Brag on your MMM high-mileage or old car
« Reply #589 on: October 17, 2017, 01:01:15 AM »
Our "new to us" car has 240 000 kms on the dial. We had the same model Holden Commodore as our last car before our son crashed it at 560 000 kms.   It seemed a sensible choice for $2000 and I know how to change the oil.