Author Topic: Becoming an Expat; moving abroad(some thoughts)  (Read 5815 times)

expat

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Becoming an Expat; moving abroad(some thoughts)
« on: March 03, 2013, 06:52:37 PM »
I actually began thinking about retirement in college. It was at that time I learned I had a net worth of around 600k via a trust fund. At the time I thought it would only be possible to retire on that kind of money in another country. Now, I realize with the advice shared on sites like this it would still be quite possible in the US. Well, several years ago a made the move abroad and I have not looked back. I don’t have access to my trust yet, although I do own an apartment outright which I rent out for income and have access to 30k in savings. That said I don’t live the high life and get by nicely making money as a English teacher here. My basic expenses for food(eating out included) and rent(plus utilities) are only $500 a month which is covered by income from my rental property, so my teaching money basically goes to funding my bar tabs, taxis, dates and weekend trips. As a single male I live a comfortable lifestyle on about 1000 a month here in Mexico. 

Right now I live in Querétaro only a short walk from the center of the city. I rent a furnished studio with all utilities (cable,wifi,,water) for just under 200 dollars a month. One could rent a 2 bedroom apartment with no utilities or furniture for 350 across the street. If I want a bus its .50 cents and finding one is easy as they are plentiful and you rarely have more than a couple minute wait to catch one in the direction you need it go. Taxis are 2.50-4 dollars. Beer is usually 1.50 to 2 dollars in nice restaurants, cantinas, high end bars; it’s usually less than a dollar in some of the dive bars. Cell phones rates are reasonable if you are calling other Mexican friends but expensive for calling outside the country. So for foreign calls I just use Skype video or phone. Food is maybe 40% the cost of the United States and some food like fruits and vegetables are maybe 10% the cost of the US. For instance a kilo(2.2lbs) of steak is 8 dollars, for chicken a kilo of leg, muscle meat 3.50 while white meat 5.50. You can get delicious street food for a few dollars and be full or at lunch its easy to find 3.50-4 dollar meals at small Mexican restaurants. Avocados are 1.50 a kilo, broccoli is 1 dollar a kilo, carrots are 75 cents a kilo and oranges are 50 cents a kilo.

Many cities in Mexico and throughout t Latin America have great temperate weather. You can get a good idea of a cities weather conditions by looking it up on www.weatherbase.com. Here is my city http://www.weatherbase.com/weather/weather.php3?s=766250&cityname=Quer%E9taro-Quer%E9taro-Mexico. As you can see it never gets too cold or hot so unless you were really fussy you could get by easily with just a few more blankets in the winter or a fan in the summer.

The cost of any type of labor is very cheap. If I rip a shirt or loose a button back in the US I usually would throw it away, but here I pay someone a dollar or two to get it repaired. I don’t drive but I hear from friends what car bills they have when it goes in for repairs and it is a fraction of the US. I had my teeth cleaned last month for 15 dollars and got a cavity filled for 35 dollars. A doctor visit costs as low as 2 dollars although a specialist might charge as much as 25 dollars.

As rosy a picture I am painting with respect to the cost of living, living in a developing country is not so easy for some people. In Mexico you need to be willing to learn Spanish which takes time but if your patient and practice you should be speaking it in no time. Personally I got terrible marks in school in Spanish but now I speak great. The food can cause stomach problems and I had my fair share of traveler’s diarrhea but to get around that every morning I take probiotics on an empty stomach. The costs of withdrawing money from an atm with your debit card can carry some stiff fees. So for debit cards you should look into Fidelity, etrade, Charles Schwab and Bank of America (it as partner banks in several countries). To my knowledge the best credit card is a capital one card which doesn’t charge for foreign transaction fees but since its mostly cash transactions I almost never use it.

The issue of crime is really overblown in Latin America, especially for Mexico as many safe places still exist. I think this is a big reason many people simply refuse to consider living here but they just don’t have their facts straight. For instance the state of Queretaro where I live had a murder rate of 3 for 100,000 meanwhile on the border the state of Chihuahua has 101 for 100,000. Source; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate. So obviously it’s unfair to lump a hot spot of crime in with the entire country.

The other wildcard is the visa laws which can vary greatly by country. Mexico allows 180 day tourist visas which can be renewed if you spend a day or 2 across the border. Peru also has this same law for Americans. However some countries like Equator, Colombia and Brazil only allow tourists to stay for 180 days a year unless they are on another type of visa. The Dominican Republic doesn’t have a visa limit for Americans so they just pay an exit fee which can be as high as $500 if you stay more than 3 years. In South East Asia it really varies by the country but I believe the Philippines is by far the easiest country to stay long term on a tourist visa. However many countries do offer retirement visas and even benefits to them and I believe Panama and Equator have programs like this. 

I think moving to a foreign country is a deeply personal decision so I would be hard pressed to recommend it to someone. I will however gladly share my own experience and for people who really want early retirement some of the inconveniences abroad maybe offset by the incredible cost of living savings and interesting cultural experiences.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2013, 07:08:37 PM by expat »

cadamsgis

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Re: Becoming an Expat; moving abroad(some thoughts)
« Reply #1 on: March 05, 2013, 05:30:18 AM »
Hey expat

Thanks for posting this.

Our dream is to pick up and move to Mexico in about 5 years. My husband is from a small pueblo in the state of Veracruz about 30 miles from the city of Veracruz. I visited there last November and loved it.

We currently live in Maryland right outside of DC (like a mile from the line) and are really looking forward to a slower pace of life when we move there as well as the open space which is not to be had around here.

We are planning on buying a truck and a 7x14 trailer and driving our stuff down.
We are planning to buy 2 hectares and build a small house near his family.

So my question to you......

- What did you bring that you are so glad you did?
- What did you wish you had brought but didn't?
- What kind of stuff do you find it hard to buy there?

thanks
cat

mm31

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Re: Becoming an Expat; moving abroad(some thoughts)
« Reply #2 on: March 05, 2013, 11:27:06 AM »
I'm very interested in this too. My work is flexible enough that I can work from anywhere and I've always been interested in living in south america for 1-5 years.

The Money Monk

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Re: Becoming an Expat; moving abroad(some thoughts)
« Reply #3 on: March 05, 2013, 11:31:23 AM »
Thanks for posting. I always like hearing first-hand info like this instead of listening to people conjecture about it. I can definitely see myself doing this someday

expat

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Re: Becoming an Expat; moving abroad(some thoughts)
« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2013, 12:26:14 AM »
Actually I sold all of my stuff outside of clothing and a labtop before i moved so i got everything i owned into 2 suitcases (still do). this is great for mobility as i can pick up and leave on a moments notice as I can pack all my possessions in maybe an hr. But if you know where you want to live and dont plan on moving around it would probably make sense to move all of your stuff down here. Although I have to say you can get a lot of nice locally made furniture for very low prices. You might also have to pay an import tax if you bring a lot of stuff but i cant really say for sure.

Because I am such a minimialist I probably am not the best person to ask about what stuff to bring. But there is nothing that I want for(maybe some food things) but stuff wise nothing that cant be found here pretty easily. If you worry about clothing any major city has nice clothing stores. For random consumer goods there are wallmarts and priceclubs here which have basically the same stuff that the stores in the US have. The big grocery stores have a lot of imported food, imported spices and imported wines.

My advice cat would be not to buy property for at least 1 year and to rent in the meantime. I understand its land near your husbands family but for whatever reason you might not be happy living there its best  to do a trail run. The thing about real estate here is that its a much longer time to sell than in the US. Many mexicans still purchase property with all cash or at least with a very large down paymen- This leads to less turnover so it could take potentially years to get rid of said property(especially in a small town) if you decide its not for you. Also unless your totally retired small towns dont have good economic oppertunities and many small towns are only kept alive economically from money sent back from family living in the US.

 
« Last Edit: March 06, 2013, 12:58:25 AM by expat »

Nancy

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Re: Becoming an Expat; moving abroad(some thoughts)
« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2013, 11:13:17 AM »
Thank you for posting this! It's a dream of mine and my husband's to live in a few different countries over our lifetimes. I'm glad to hear from the perspective of someone who made the move before reaching FI. I go back and forth between 1.) staying here until I reach FI or 2.) putting in a few more years here and then trying my luck at working abroad while slowly contributing to my nest egg and delaying FI. Due to your low cost of living, do you feel that you can put a reasonable amount aside toward your (assumed) goal of reaching FI? I can't decide which would be the "better" decision for me.

Jamesqf

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Re: Becoming an Expat; moving abroad(some thoughts)
« Reply #6 on: March 06, 2013, 11:53:34 AM »
As a single male I live a comfortable lifestyle on about 1000 a month here in Mexico.

But as a single male, I live a comfortable lifestyle on not a whole lot more than that (less, if you exclude mortgage payments on my rural acres) here in northern Nevada.  Now I don't have bar tabs or take taxis, but that's a lifestyle choice: I do support a couple of dogs and a horse.  And I suppose that if I were to live in a more rural part of Mexico, my costs would be correspondingly lower.

OTOH, when I have lived abroad, it has been places where the COL was significantly higher than I enjoy here.  Switzerland was probably the most expensive: near Lausanne, I rented a converted pool shed for about what I was paying on my US mortgage.

As to weather/climate...  Well, that's personal preference again, but I wouldn't care to live anywhere that didn't get skiiable snow in the winter.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2013, 09:06:12 PM by Jamesqf »

Paul der Krake

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Re: Becoming an Expat; moving abroad(some thoughts)
« Reply #7 on: March 06, 2013, 12:21:23 PM »
As a life-long expat who has country-hopped many times from a very young age, I often find things that people take for granted completely weird. Like going to school with the same people from elementary school through high school. Or living in a town for more than 5 years. Or not having a passport.

If anything, it really teaches you to adapt quickly. I often hear people arguing that it's unfair on young children to make them leave their friends and school, or how they could never learn a new language, etc.

Change is good. Embrace it.

Nords

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Re: Becoming an Expat; moving abroad(some thoughts)
« Reply #8 on: March 06, 2013, 10:37:15 PM »
Billy & Akaisha Kaderli have been expat perpetual travelers for over 20 years now, and they've shown many people how to do it.

However they must still get more than a few "Yeah, but..." protests.  I enjoyed their latest self-explanatory (and slightly snarky) post:
"Why You Will Not Retire Outside the U.S."
http://retireearlylifestyle.com/top_ten_list.htm

expat

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Re: Becoming an Expat; moving abroad(some thoughts)
« Reply #9 on: March 07, 2013, 02:05:35 AM »
I liked that list nords. Shit, when I go to visit people in the states and tell about my life in mexico I often get the response of yeah but i could never do that because . . .(insert reason from nords link)

I suspect people who subscribe to a mustacian ideology are more open to different ideas and lifestyle changes. Shit its not easy to go against the grain of established social norms after all. That said I think a much higher percentage of posters and lurkers on this website as opposed to the general population of americans would be suitable candidates for becoming expats.

Nords

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Re: Becoming an Expat; moving abroad(some thoughts)
« Reply #10 on: March 07, 2013, 09:58:34 PM »
I liked that list nords. Shit, when I go to visit people in the states and tell about my life in mexico I often get the response of yeah but i could never do that because . . .(insert reason from nords link)
We see a weaker version of that here, where people think they're moving to a tropical paradise to live happily ever after.

But when their kids start their lives on the Mainland, or when aging parents need the help of adult children... I can see the same issues cropping up for expats.  At least Akaisha was financially independent and able to return to the U.S. to stay indefinitely with her mother when the time came.

My spouse's parents moved here to watch their only grandchild grow up, but they never acculturated here.  I still shudder when I think of the stories they used to tell about their interactions with the locals, and how clueless they were in their emotional/social intelligence.  Their casual racism did not exactly endear them to anyone, either.  After five years my PILs eventually grew lonely for their Mainland lifestyle and moved back to their ol' stomping grounds, and it was a very good thing for them to do.

spoonman

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Re: Becoming an Expat; moving abroad(some thoughts)
« Reply #11 on: March 07, 2013, 10:14:46 PM »
Thank you for sharing your experience, expat.  This is the sort of post that makes my day. 

Is the internet connection that you get in your studio reliable?  Do you get blackouts in Querétaro?  Do you have some sort of health insurance there, or do you always pay for any health expenses out of pocket?

thanks again!

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!