Author Topic: 'Pretirement' app instantly converts spending to FI date delta  (Read 12550 times)

dannymurphy

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Ever had this conversation with a spouse?
You: “That’s not in the budget.” Spouse: “So?” You: “So, we’re trying to become financially independent.” Spouse: “Well I’m sure this won’t change much” You: “Gee, I wish there was an app I could use to help explain this.”
...or this conversation with yourself?
You: “I’d like to get a new car, and it’s only $300/month. How does that affect my future financial freedom? Gee, it sure would be nice to have an app to help me with this decision.”

Good news, folks, this is an Android app that does exactly this. The ‘Pretirement’ app calculates how much a spending decision will change your financial independence date. Here’s how it works:
1.   You enter basic financials and assumptions (assets, baseline contributions, expected returns, inflation rates, etc) and it provides your baseline FI date
2.   Whenever you are faced with a financial decision (or argument), you open the app and find out how many years/months/days earlier or later that decision allows you to be financially independent

Download for Android and iOS:
The Pretirement App

As a disclaimer: I’m sure a lot of you mustachians will find the FI date calculation oversimplified, but hopefully the app is still useful for evaluating impacts of spending decisions. I’d love your feedback on any changes/additions that improve its usability for this very financially savvy crowd.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2017, 06:49:40 AM by dannymurphy »
'Pretirement': a financial independence app that instantly converts spending or savings decisions into days, weeks, or years of your life.
Get it for iOS or Android

dhc

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Re: 'Pretirement' app instantly converts spending to FI date delta
« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2017, 04:34:59 PM »
Nice!

I couldn't find it searching in the Play store, though; I had to follow your link.

Eirene

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Re: 'Pretirement' app instantly converts spending to FI date delta
« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2017, 05:19:50 AM »
Looks nice :) I just installed it and will take a look at lunch. Been buying a lot of little unnecessary things lately so it may help to look at the implications.

lchu

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Re: 'Pretirement' app instantly converts spending to FI date delta
« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2017, 12:27:34 PM »
Wow, that looks nice!

At one point, I built myself a spreadsheet to do something similar and got frustrated when I made a mistake with some of the math behind it.  I can see myself playing around with your app, definitely planning on showing it to some family members who have the mental conversation you described.

As far as features/updates:

I feel like the general concept of your app would appeal to people just discovering FIRE or who are going through debt-repayment, but they might be turned off / overwhelmed by needing to input a lot of data when they first try to use the app. (IIRC, there was an article a while back about a large number of seniors giving up on using AARP's retirement calculator tools within 5 minutes because they just weren't financially literate enough or didn't have immediate access to that information).  Conversely, you said that you were concerned about the simplified FI date calculation for the "advanced mustache crowd" -- maybe give the user the ability to choose a "mustache level" that allows for different inputs?


Level 1 is an extremely basic calculation that is mostly built on average assumptions with $0 saved and $0 contributions, Level 2 allows you to enter the amount currently saved / contributions, Level 3 allows you to adjust expected returns and/or inflation, etc.  Top Level just automatically punches you in the face for even contemplating your purchase.  ;-)


How challenging / invasive would it be to add a feature that connects the app to Android Pay (or similar) and force the user to review the "Pretirement" effect before authorizing the purchase?

LadyStache in Baja

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Re: 'Pretirement' app instantly converts spending to FI date delta
« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2017, 02:29:47 PM »
:( not available in Mexico!
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steviesterno

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Re: 'Pretirement' app instantly converts spending to FI date delta
« Reply #5 on: April 18, 2017, 05:12:49 PM »
I just do it with some simple math. Like lets say I want $3 coffee instead of my home made stuff:

$3x250 (working days a year) x25 (inverse of 4%) = $18,750 invested just to pay for coffee.

Or each $1 wasted a day costs $9,125 that I'll need.

your car at 300/month would be $90,000    shit, that's a used ferrarri in cash!

Heroes821

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Re: 'Pretirement' app instantly converts spending to FI date delta
« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2017, 08:50:55 AM »
I downloaded the app, I'll give it a shot.  I punched in the set up numbers and it told me I was FI and congrats and then I double checked and I fat fingered an extra zero lol.

dannymurphy

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Re: 'Pretirement' app instantly converts spending to FI date delta
« Reply #7 on: April 21, 2017, 03:12:56 PM »
Nice!

I couldn't find it searching in the Play store, though; I had to follow your link.

Thanks dhc. It was probably a few pages down. Presumably Google doesn't give you first page status until you're a more legitimate app developer with more downloads. We'll see if this one moves up the list.
-Danny
'Pretirement': a financial independence app that instantly converts spending or savings decisions into days, weeks, or years of your life.
Get it for iOS or Android

dannymurphy

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Re: 'Pretirement' app instantly converts spending to FI date delta
« Reply #8 on: April 21, 2017, 03:28:57 PM »
Conversely, you said that you were concerned about the simplified FI date calculation for the "advanced mustache crowd" -- maybe give the user the ability to choose a "mustache level" that allows for different inputs?
I've thought about this a lot. I think the first "advanced" features I would add would be to include time-tagged stuff in your baseline. For example, my mortgage is paid off in 5 years and at that point my baseline savings rate goes up by 1000/month, or whatever. I'd also like to separate the baseline into pre-tax and post-tax assets with some assumptions about tax rates of conversion for the pre-tax stuff. What other advanced features would you like to see?

Level 1 is an extremely basic calculation that is mostly built on average assumptions with $0 saved and $0 contributions, Level 2 allows you to enter the amount currently saved / contributions, Level 3 allows you to adjust expected returns and/or inflation, etc.  Top Level just automatically punches you in the face for even contemplating your purchase.  ;-)
Punching in the face might be tough to do, but maybe I can work out a really loud painful sound that plays when you try to spend too much, ha ;)

How challenging / invasive would it be to add a feature that connects the app to Android Pay (or similar) and force the user to review the "Pretirement" effect before authorizing the purchase?
I really like this, but it would definitely be a lot of work (probably more than I have time available). It sure wouldn't make me best friends with the e-retailers either!
'Pretirement': a financial independence app that instantly converts spending or savings decisions into days, weeks, or years of your life.
Get it for iOS or Android

limeandpepper

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Re: 'Pretirement' app instantly converts spending to FI date delta
« Reply #9 on: April 21, 2017, 03:33:43 PM »
That's cool! But it tells me "this item is not available in your country". :(  If you get a web version up I'd love to play with it!

dannymurphy

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Re: 'Pretirement' app instantly converts spending to FI date delta
« Reply #10 on: April 21, 2017, 04:10:36 PM »
:( not available in Mexico!
Hi LadyStache. I just opened it up for Mexico. Let me know what you think!
'Pretirement': a financial independence app that instantly converts spending or savings decisions into days, weeks, or years of your life.
Get it for iOS or Android

dannymurphy

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Re: 'Pretirement' app instantly converts spending to FI date delta
« Reply #11 on: April 21, 2017, 04:13:07 PM »
That's cool! But it tells me "this item is not available in your country". :(  If you get a web version up I'd love to play with it!
I just added Australia to the list... assuming that covers "Anywhere/Perth"?
'Pretirement': a financial independence app that instantly converts spending or savings decisions into days, weeks, or years of your life.
Get it for iOS or Android

limeandpepper

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Re: 'Pretirement' app instantly converts spending to FI date delta
« Reply #12 on: April 21, 2017, 04:28:58 PM »
That's cool! But it tells me "this item is not available in your country". :(  If you get a web version up I'd love to play with it!
I just added Australia to the list... assuming that covers "Anywhere/Perth"?

Thanks, it works now! :) Finding it enjoyable to use so far!

Optimiser

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Re: 'Pretirement' app instantly converts spending to FI date delta
« Reply #13 on: April 21, 2017, 04:52:35 PM »
I've been enjoying using this app for the last few days. Makes what if questions super simple to answer.

Eirene

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Re: 'Pretirement' app instantly converts spending to FI date delta
« Reply #14 on: April 21, 2017, 06:44:52 PM »
I like it the app a lot. Have been spending a bit too much on junk groceries this month and seeing the effect of not spending $100 once or $20 per month is quite sobering :)

casserole_dish

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Re: 'Pretirement' app instantly converts spending to FI date delta
« Reply #15 on: April 24, 2017, 04:05:04 AM »
Whats your approx date for release of the apple version?
I've been keeping this tab open to check, now posting to follow :)

PrinsKheldar

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Re: 'Pretirement' app instantly converts spending to FI date delta
« Reply #16 on: April 24, 2017, 07:13:38 AM »
This sounds like it could be a rally handy app!

Looking forward to the iphone-version.. =)



cheapass

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Re: 'Pretirement' app instantly converts spending to FI date delta
« Reply #17 on: April 24, 2017, 10:53:18 AM »
Ever had this conversation with a spouse?
You: “That’s not in the budget.” Spouse: “So?” You: “So, we’re trying to become financially independent.” Spouse: “Well I’m sure this won’t change much” You: “Gee, I wish there was an app I could use to help explain this.”
...or this conversation with yourself?
You: “I’d like to get a new car, and it’s only $300/month. How does that affect my future financial freedom? Gee, it sure would be nice to have an app to help me with this decision.”

Good news, folks, this is an Android app that does exactly this. The ‘Pretirement’ app calculates how much a spending decision will change your financial independence date. Here’s how it works:
1.   You enter basic financials and assumptions (assets, baseline contributions, expected returns, inflation rates, etc) and it provides your baseline FI date
2.   Whenever you are faced with a financial decision (or argument), you open the app and find out how many years/months/days earlier or later that decision allows you to be financially independent

The Android app is available here: Pretirement: Financial Freedom on Google Play Store
It’s coming for iPhone, but not quite ready.

As a disclaimer: I’m sure a lot of you mustachians will find the FI date calculation oversimplified, but hopefully the app is still useful for evaluating impacts of spending decisions. I’d love your feedback on any changes/additions that improve its usability for this very financially savvy crowd.

Great idea to convert $ into a tangible amount of time taken out of your life.

I've thought about a "countdown" clock too that adjusts with monthly budget updates. Maybe it could be permanently stuck in the Android notification bar so you can see how many years/weeks/days whatever you have until FI/RE
Every single decision you make with money either shortens or lengthens your working career.

cheapass

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Re: 'Pretirement' app instantly converts spending to FI date delta
« Reply #18 on: April 24, 2017, 04:04:44 PM »
Another suggestion would be to have a monthly check in option. You could input your net worth and see if you are getting better or worse than the baseline case you originally set up. Is that date shifting forward or backward...
Every single decision you make with money either shortens or lengthens your working career.

dannymurphy

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Re: 'Pretirement' app instantly converts spending to FI date delta
« Reply #19 on: April 26, 2017, 03:16:02 PM »
Another suggestion would be to have a monthly check in option. You could input your net worth and see if you are getting better or worse than the baseline case you originally set up. Is that date shifting forward or backward...
I like this, it's definitely on the list of things to add. Thanks!
'Pretirement': a financial independence app that instantly converts spending or savings decisions into days, weeks, or years of your life.
Get it for iOS or Android

dannymurphy

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Re: 'Pretirement' app instantly converts spending to FI date delta
« Reply #20 on: April 26, 2017, 03:16:59 PM »
Whats your approx date for release of the apple version?
I've been keeping this tab open to check, now posting to follow :)
I should have it out in a few weeks. I'll make sure to let you know.
'Pretirement': a financial independence app that instantly converts spending or savings decisions into days, weeks, or years of your life.
Get it for iOS or Android

DieHard_772

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Re: 'Pretirement' app instantly converts spending to FI date delta
« Reply #21 on: April 26, 2017, 10:25:59 PM »
Very very cool app, thanks!

Can you make it so it can show you the numbers? Such as money needed for retirement, and the yearly draw down rate etc?  I love it when financial calculators show all the data



1967mama

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Re: 'Pretirement' app instantly converts spending to FI date delta
« Reply #22 on: April 27, 2017, 12:38:11 AM »
Posting to follow ... while waiting for the iphone version:-)

Cezilous

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Re: 'Pretirement' app instantly converts spending to FI date delta
« Reply #23 on: April 27, 2017, 11:45:15 AM »
Ever had this conversation with a spouse?
You: “That’s not in the budget.” Spouse: “So?” You: “So, we’re trying to become financially independent.” Spouse: “Well I’m sure this won’t change much” You: “Gee, I wish there was an app I could use to help explain this.”

I’d love your feedback on any changes/additions that improve its usability for this very financially savvy crowd.

I do not have a smart phone, but I think this is a fantastic idea!  Yes, that above conversation has happened multiple times.  However, I'm not quite quick enough in the head to be able to show the calculation on paper or a calculator.  Does the app show how you come up with the number?  For example, let’s say SO wants to purchase a $25 thingamabob.  Does it show the math on how that $25 affects the greater overall investment/return?  So I can point to *this first number/$25*, that’s the cost right now, then *this next number* is the total cost over X time frame, and you’ll need Y amount..etc..  Or does the app already do this?  Sorry if this is a stupid suggestion.

LadyStache in Baja

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Re: 'Pretirement' app instantly converts spending to FI date delta
« Reply #24 on: April 27, 2017, 01:43:45 PM »
Just installed it! It's pretty!

Question: when I click "save" say $200/monthly, does the app assume that $200 is being invested or just not spent?
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Vindicated

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Re: 'Pretirement' app instantly converts spending to FI date delta
« Reply #25 on: April 27, 2017, 01:56:09 PM »
Downloaded!  Thanks for this!  I love it.  I hope it helps encourage my Wife to be less of a consuma sukka!
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cheapass

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Re: 'Pretirement' app instantly converts spending to FI date delta
« Reply #26 on: April 27, 2017, 02:30:58 PM »
Just installed it! It's pretty!

Question: when I click "save" say $200/monthly, does the app assume that $200 is being invested or just not spent?

I believe it assumes that the default use for those savings is to invest them along with your other chunk of annual investments.
Every single decision you make with money either shortens or lengthens your working career.

BrokeNoMo

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Re: 'Pretirement' app instantly converts spending to FI date delta
« Reply #27 on: April 27, 2017, 03:22:45 PM »
Looks like I can retire when I'm 92! yay.

Definitely eye opening. Thanks for the work you put into this app.

life_travel

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Re: 'Pretirement' app instantly converts spending to FI date delta
« Reply #28 on: April 28, 2017, 05:39:35 AM »
Sounds interesting , can't wait to play.. Waiting patiently for the iPhone version :)

dannymurphy

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Re: 'Pretirement' app instantly converts spending to FI date delta
« Reply #29 on: April 28, 2017, 06:11:24 AM »
Just installed it! It's pretty!

Question: when I click "save" say $200/monthly, does the app assume that $200 is being invested or just not spent?

I believe it assumes that the default use for those savings is to invest them along with your other chunk of annual investments.
That's exactly right. Similarly if you were to click "save $200 now" it would add 200 to your investment principal.
'Pretirement': a financial independence app that instantly converts spending or savings decisions into days, weeks, or years of your life.
Get it for iOS or Android

dannymurphy

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Re: 'Pretirement' app instantly converts spending to FI date delta
« Reply #30 on: April 28, 2017, 06:12:53 AM »
Another suggestion would be to have a monthly check in option. You could input your net worth and see if you are getting better or worse than the baseline case you originally set up. Is that date shifting forward or backward...
Yes! This is going at the top of the list. Thanks for the recommendation cheapass
'Pretirement': a financial independence app that instantly converts spending or savings decisions into days, weeks, or years of your life.
Get it for iOS or Android

dannymurphy

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Re: 'Pretirement' app instantly converts spending to FI date delta
« Reply #31 on: April 28, 2017, 06:16:44 AM »
Very very cool app, thanks!

Can you make it so it can show you the numbers? Such as money needed for retirement, and the yearly draw down rate etc?  I love it when financial calculators show all the data
I will definitely add this in. Thanks for the suggestion DieHard. I'll add a "drill-down" button to the results.
'Pretirement': a financial independence app that instantly converts spending or savings decisions into days, weeks, or years of your life.
Get it for iOS or Android

eagerlearner

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Re: 'Pretirement' app instantly converts spending to FI date delta
« Reply #32 on: April 30, 2017, 01:30:18 AM »
I'd love to try this,  says not available in the UK?

tralfamadorian

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Re: 'Pretirement' app instantly converts spending to FI date delta
« Reply #33 on: April 30, 2017, 08:48:30 AM »
following so I know when the iphone app comes out!

Zamboni

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Re: 'Pretirement' app instantly converts spending to FI date delta
« Reply #34 on: April 30, 2017, 09:14:16 AM »
Following because would also like the iphone version. Thank you!

minimalistgamer

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Re: 'Pretirement' app instantly converts spending to FI date delta
« Reply #35 on: April 30, 2017, 10:21:13 AM »
Excellent work. Thanks for doing this.
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Half Stached

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Re: 'Pretirement' app instantly converts spending to FI date delta
« Reply #36 on: April 30, 2017, 12:23:16 PM »
Looks sweet! Following for iPhone.

Lagom

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Re: 'Pretirement' app instantly converts spending to FI date delta
« Reply #37 on: April 30, 2017, 12:31:30 PM »
Pretty cool. Another iPhone user here :)

crimwell

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Re: 'Pretirement' app instantly converts spending to FI date delta
« Reply #38 on: May 06, 2017, 05:39:50 PM »
Really cool app, just downloaded it and played with it for a few minutes. I agree that a monthly or quarterly check-ins option with a graph would be good.

shanghaiMMM

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Re: 'Pretirement' app instantly converts spending to FI date delta
« Reply #39 on: May 08, 2017, 05:44:15 PM »
Looks cool.

Can't download in China, any chance that might change?
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elaine amj

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Re: 'Pretirement' app instantly converts spending to FI date delta
« Reply #40 on: May 08, 2017, 06:19:37 PM »
Oooo...sounds cool. Will wait for the iPhone version :)


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Vindicated

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Re: 'Pretirement' app instantly converts spending to FI date delta
« Reply #41 on: May 10, 2017, 08:41:04 AM »
I have a suggestion for you.

Add an "Age" slow on the baseline page.  Then show how old we'll be on the results, along with the year and countdown.
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Rosy

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Re: 'Pretirement' app instantly converts spending to FI date delta
« Reply #42 on: May 12, 2017, 06:42:48 PM »
So cool - just installed, love it, finally something simple for people who are hopeless at math - THANK YOU!

Yes - showing age along with the date would be another great incentive.

dannymurphy

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Re: 'Pretirement' app instantly converts spending to FI date delta
« Reply #43 on: May 23, 2017, 08:44:57 PM »
The iOS version is now available! Get it here:
Pretirement: Financial Freedom on iTunes
'Pretirement': a financial independence app that instantly converts spending or savings decisions into days, weeks, or years of your life.
Get it for iOS or Android

ToTheMoon

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Re: 'Pretirement' app instantly converts spending to FI date delta
« Reply #44 on: May 23, 2017, 09:16:45 PM »
PTF - Thanks dannymurphy!

Edit: Just tried it out on my Chomebook Flip, and it works great :)
« Last Edit: May 23, 2017, 09:22:25 PM by ToTheMoon »

Half Stached

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Re: 'Pretirement' app instantly converts spending to FI date delta
« Reply #45 on: May 23, 2017, 09:28:13 PM »
Downloaded for my iPad and rated! Thanks for making this!

casserole_dish

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Re: 'Pretirement' app instantly converts spending to FI date delta
« Reply #46 on: May 23, 2017, 10:56:06 PM »
Awesome! I just tried it on my iphone. I left you a review on the app store :)

dannymurphy

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Re: 'Pretirement' app instantly converts spending to FI date delta
« Reply #47 on: May 25, 2017, 06:58:38 PM »
ToTheMoon, Half Stached, casserole_dish... thanks for the good feedback!
'Pretirement': a financial independence app that instantly converts spending or savings decisions into days, weeks, or years of your life.
Get it for iOS or Android

cantgrowone

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Re: 'Pretirement' app instantly converts spending to FI date delta
« Reply #48 on: May 25, 2017, 09:52:57 PM »
I very much enjoy your app.

I was thinking on my way home today, what if the net worth was graphed. So when you said I'm going to spend an extra $20 a month, you would see on a graph what kind of different it would make towards FI.

I made a very crude graph to illustrate.

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dannymurphy

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Re: 'Pretirement' app instantly converts spending to FI date delta
« Reply #49 on: May 26, 2017, 07:12:20 AM »
I very much enjoy your app.

I was thinking on my way home today, what if the net worth was graphed. So when you said I'm going to spend an extra $20 a month, you would see on a graph what kind of different it would make towards FI.

I made a very crude graph to illustrate.

Great idea cantgrowone. I'm almost done with some of the other trending plots recommended by others above, so this will be easy to add. I'll let you know when its done!
'Pretirement': a financial independence app that instantly converts spending or savings decisions into days, weeks, or years of your life.
Get it for iOS or Android