Author Topic: Tenants will not leave  (Read 10504 times)

FerrumB5

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Tenants will not leave
« on: June 23, 2017, 08:51:31 PM »
Hi Community.

Long story short. In 2014 my in-laws neighbor was injured and laid off. They were living in a duplex. In 2015 neighbors' house was foreclosed. My in-laws kindly offered them to move to their house with no firm terms (in-laws live in a different house), no firm contract, with low rent - because those guys always were so nice.
Now, in March in-laws gave them 3 months notice to vacate because they found a buyer. "Neighbors" would not. They accused in-laws in many things (like, ruining their kids' summer). Now they (N) are having a lawyer who sent my in-laws a letter that the husband was in hospital (not true, just regular check ups and rehab) so they cannot leave. The closing day is in approx. 2 weeks.

Suggestions? Cannot give more details due to sensitive situation. But neighbors blocked us all in social etc so we (even me, WTF?) cannot read their threads (like I care). They were such nice people. Is it legal?

Goldielocks

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Re: Tenants will not leave
« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2017, 12:14:14 AM »
You need to check your state's tenancy laws and residential act to find out what is allowed, and what is not.

Here, being in a hospital is not a reason to refuse move out with 3 months notice, especially if there are two people living there, and one person is able to do the moving work. 

jooniFLORisploo

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Re: Tenants will not leave
« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2017, 12:50:04 AM »
Yes, as Goldielocks notes, laws will likely address this.

This is so even if:
there is no written tenancy agreement
the tenant has difficult circumstances

Where there is no formal, written agreement to guide things, there is usually a law covering that scenario, too.

When the matter is sorted out legally, your region will likely have an option for moving tenants out (e.g., bailiff).

Try to remain on the best possible terms with the tenants (polite, fair, conversational, negotiated, etc).

Keep it legal.

Look for a win-win scenario. Once I paid tenants a bit of cash to go. Another time I connected the tenant with an agency who could help them so they wouldn't end up homeless. Another time I helped the tenant physically move their items. Sometimes a landlord can just give a bit of practical help and voila! No more issue :)

They might be mad at you guys anyway -people simply get very stressed at being required to move house. Just do the right thing(s) regardless.

FerrumB5

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Re: Tenants will not leave
« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2017, 12:07:33 PM »
Thanks, folks.

Is there a good resource to read all the IL tenants statutes? I found this: http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/overview-landlord-tenant-laws-illinois.html

So, there is an eviction rule if tenants broke some rules/laws, but nothing about selling the property. Really really urgent matter. Closing is in danger. I'm not in the rentals business at all, so I'm just trying to find a needle,.... you know.

Thanks in advance!

jooniFLORisploo

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Re: Tenants will not leave
« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2017, 01:07:36 PM »
Where I am, there is a clause specific to everything under the sun, including transfer of ownership. (e.g., New owners can take over unit, with two months' notice from previous or new owner and some compensation to tenant.)

A few ideas per urgency:

1. Start a thread under the more-read Ask A Mustachian area. Say "Illinois rental laws" in the subject line. Ask there what the law is in this situation.

2. Since it's not a weekday, Google whether a nonprofit helping agency like Legal Aid or a tenant's rights association offers a simple factsheet online. Those are usually broken down nicely by topic, and are presented in easier-to-understand language.

okobrien

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Re: Tenants will not leave
« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2017, 02:03:38 PM »
Offer $1k to $2k to vacate. Let them know you will evict, seek back pay, and do everything short of taking their first born if they don't cooperate with this generous offer.
If official eviction paperwork hasn't been filed yet you probably won't be able to force them out in two weeks.
(I know nothing about the law in your state)

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FerrumB5

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Re: Tenants will not leave
« Reply #6 on: June 24, 2017, 03:16:53 PM »
Offer $1k to $2k to vacate. Let them know you will evict, seek back pay, and do everything short of taking their first born if they don't cooperate with this generous offer.
If official eviction paperwork hasn't been filed yet you probably won't be able to force them out in two weeks.
(I know nothing about the law in your state)

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Seriously? Offer them money to vacate a property???

Goldielocks

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Re: Tenants will not leave
« Reply #7 on: June 24, 2017, 03:21:50 PM »
Offer $1k to $2k to vacate. Let them know you will evict, seek back pay, and do everything short of taking their first born if they don't cooperate with this generous offer.
If official eviction paperwork hasn't been filed yet you probably won't be able to force them out in two weeks.
(I know nothing about the law in your state)

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Seriously? Offer them money to vacate a property???

Yes, it is surprisingly effective.

Frankies Girl

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Re: Tenants will not leave
« Reply #8 on: June 24, 2017, 03:30:57 PM »
Why not offer money to vacate? That may be the fastest, easiest solution.

If they're that petty and entitled and dishonest as to take advantage of the people that let them live someplace with low rent and no contract in their time of need and lie about things to keep possession, I'd be concerned about prying them out of the place without them doing major damage on the way out. Where I live, I've seen foreclosed homes where the evicted people poured concrete down the toilets and splattered paint on the floors and surfaces, taken a hammer to mirrors and fixtures, busted out windows and punched holes in the walls and drug out insulation all over - just generally just trashed the house.

Sure, you'd likely get a judgement against them eventually if you sued for damages, but that's if they have anything to garnish in the first plae, and even that's likely to take well over a year to work its way through the court system. In the meantime they've ruined the sale happening in a few weeks and could potentially destroy the house itself out of spite.
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FerrumB5

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Re: Tenants will not leave
« Reply #9 on: June 24, 2017, 03:40:26 PM »
WOW. To 2 recent posters. People you've dealt with are just fucked up.
In laws are trying their best to deal with the situation as polite as possible. Those neighbors/tenants were really nice guys, so I'm just kind of speechless why this is happening in the first place with 3 months notice

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Re: Tenants will not leave
« Reply #10 on: June 24, 2017, 03:40:41 PM »
The tenants have had a good thing going for a long time, of course they are going to be reluctant to lose it.

I think your in-laws need to come up with a sob-story of their own.  I would try something along the following lines -

"We loved having you as neighbours and have been delighted to be able to help you out for the last couple of years.  But unfortunately things have changed for us lately and we just can't afford to keep the property any longer.  We've had a reasonable offer that, things being as they are for us, we need to accept.

We understand that this will be inconvenient for you.  We hope you are able to find somewhere to go which will suit you.  Because it is short notice, we can offer you $Xk to help with moving costs, if you leave before [closing date].  Do let us know if there is anything else we can do to help".

And then file the eviction paperwork, immediately.
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NoNonsenseLandlord

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Re: Tenants will not leave
« Reply #11 on: June 24, 2017, 03:51:54 PM »
Hire an attorney to evict.  The attorney will be able to do it cheap, and make sure you do it correct.

I evicted a woman with stage 4 terminal breast cancer.  She died 6-moth after she moved out.  in MN, hospital is no excuse.  A judge may give them another 30 days, but they will be out.

Frankies Girl

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Re: Tenants will not leave
« Reply #12 on: June 24, 2017, 05:15:23 PM »
WOW. To 2 recent posters. People you've dealt with are just fucked up.
In laws are trying their best to deal with the situation as polite as possible. Those neighbors/tenants were really nice guys, so I'm just kind of speechless why this is happening in the first place with 3 months notice

They were evicted from their last place and that's a huge red flag. It is just lucky they were nice to the inlaws when they were neighbors, so then took advantage of the inlaws when offered the opportunity. If they were really nice guys, they would have used that 3 months to move out - early even - and thank the inlaws for being so good to them for all those years. Instead, you've got them refusing contact with anyone, lying about their circumstances, threatening the inlaws with legal action (they lawyered up PDQ didn't they?).

These people are not nice. They are flat out screwing your inlaws over, lying, threatening them, and will likely cost them money if the sale falls through. I get that it is going to be a hassle and frankly sucks when folks don't behave rationally, especially when you've done them a huge favor all these years, but the time for being polite or nice has passed. Time to be firm and remove the emotion from the situation.

They are jerks, and they are treating the inlaws like a doormat. Just do like NoNonsenseLandlord said: lawyer up this minute and evict them post haste. They've had plenty of time and chances. Stop letting them walk all over you (the inlaws anyway) or the sale will likely fall through and you'll need to hire one eventually anyway and it could become a horrible nightmare instead of just an annoying headache.
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lizzzi

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Re: Tenants will not leave
« Reply #13 on: June 24, 2017, 05:22:53 PM »
Just a general comment: No good deed goes unpunished.

It's best not to be too nice--people just take advantage. The in-laws should have put everything in writing from the get-go. If they wanted to help the neighbors  with a slightly-below-market rent or something like that, they could have. But everything needed to be drawn up legally.

My grandmother used to say, even when it was family: "Let's be good business partners, and then we'll always be good friends."

I'd rather have my teeth drilled without novocaine  than to rent anything to anybody...but if I did want to be a landlord, I would study the No Nonsense Landlord's blog, and do everything he says.

kellyincville

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Re: Tenants will not leave
« Reply #14 on: June 24, 2017, 06:05:07 PM »
Suggestions?

IL is a very tenant-friendly state.  You have no chance of forcing an eviction in two weeks so the closing will be missed and the overwhelming odds are the buyers will bolt unless you convince the tenants to leave peaceably.  I don't know where in IL the property but evictions in Chicagoland take a minimum of 13 weeks.  I've heard horror stories in the state of 13 months.  Given that the tenants already have a lawyer, I would not be optimistic. 

Tell the tenants they have two choices:
1) Take $1.5-2k and leave within 10 days.  Tell them that you will provide a good reference (regardless of whether your in-laws intend to or not).  Exchange cash for keys at the front door when they leave and have them sign something that says they are vacating the property.  (Search "cash for keys" on bigger pockets for more details.)   
2) Scorched earth- eviction, small claims for monies lost due to lost of sale and garnishment of wages to get those funds (this is probably not possible in IL but you can threaten).

Have the person who you all think they would take the news best from and who is the best sweet talker, go and talk to them.  Play good cop, bad cop.  "I would be happy to have you guys stay here forever if it was my choice.  You're so nice!  You take such good care of the place!  What a beautiful family you have!  But my father-in-law- what a piece of work.  He is threatening all kinds of crazy stuff.  But I convinced him to let me come talk to you first..."

Yes, it sucks.  Yes, it's not fair.  Yes, afterwards you will want to hit a punching bag for 30 minutes and go for a five mile run because injustice!  But court and legal fees will likely add up to much more than that $2k in addition to the lost sale.  Unfortunately an expensive and stressful lesson learned- being a casual landlord can come back to bite you in the ass. 

FerrumB5

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Re: Tenants will not leave
« Reply #15 on: June 24, 2017, 07:39:34 PM »
Thanks All.

I got some info here about what can be done legally and how long it could take. I DO hope none of this will be needed. I'll try to keep this thread live until all is resolved so our community gets useful experience.
Regards.

sequoia

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Re: Tenants will not leave
« Reply #16 on: June 24, 2017, 08:30:27 PM »
Hire an attorney to evict.  The attorney will be able to do it cheap, and make sure you do it correct.

I evicted a woman with stage 4 terminal breast cancer.  She died 6-moth after she moved out.  in MN, hospital is no excuse.  A judge may give them another 30 days, but they will be out.

This. Yes there is a risk they will pour concrete down the toilet, and splatter paints all over the place like mentioned above, but OP you got no choice here. I would NOT offer them money - that is just insane. That is rewarding someone for bad behaviour - smh. Forget being nice and try to be reasonable here, you want to be on legal ground first, follow the law and then kick their ass.

Hopefully getting the attorney involved makes them realized that you will go after them if they damage the property on purpose (you do or not do, that is a different conversation but just making them know you will go after them with everything you got legally hopefully will be enough to get them to leave and not damage the property). Good luck!

jooniFLORisploo

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Re: Tenants will not leave
« Reply #17 on: June 24, 2017, 09:27:44 PM »
In some life scenarios, I would rather spend $500-$1000 "rewarding" someone's bad behaviour than deal with a much more expensive approach. It's okay to negotiate, even when someone's being a jerk, immoral, unethical, etc. It's also okay to see things from the other's perspective and ease that, if possible. A small payout can be the quickest, most painless, cheapest approach, and everyone leaves happy. That's a good thing.

FerrumB5

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Re: Tenants will not leave
« Reply #18 on: June 24, 2017, 09:36:01 PM »
I really doubt my FIL will be giving them any money for leaving. That's just absolutely insane giving a 3 mo notice.

jooniFLORisploo

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Re: Tenants will not leave
« Reply #19 on: June 24, 2017, 10:35:44 PM »
Injustice always feels insane -situations in which we feel wronged can be crazymaking, for sure.

But what can also be insane is shooting ourselves in the foot on the principle of the thing, to teach a lesson, etc.

If getting quick possession is the most important thing, take the steps to get that.
If saving money is the most important thing, take the steps to do that.
If proving a point/standing for justice is the most important, that's a different step again.

Any of these goals is legitimate. Only your inlaws know what's most important to them. They should do the steps that align with their primary goal/interest.

I think several of us have been under the impression that quick possession of an intact place is the primary goal here, hence the suggestions.

Where I live, a person can't be kicked out just because a place's ownership is transferred. The laws here consider *that* unjust, because of the impact on the person residing. So, justice, ethics, etc, are complex matters, with lots of subjectivity. Because this is so, and because laws can reflect such, lots of landlords negotiate, offer a small payout in order to achieve their preference, etc. One of the best tools we have in our region is a form called a Mutual Agreement to End Tenancy. It encourages and empowers landlords and tenants to work out a compromise, and I've found it a very effective tool as a landlord, manager, and tenant.

Bicycle_B

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Re: Tenants will not leave
« Reply #20 on: June 24, 2017, 11:58:38 PM »
I really doubt my FIL will be giving them any money for leaving. That's just absolutely insane giving a 3 mo notice.

FIL may not be able to close in 2 weeks, unless the closing docs allow transfer of title with the "neighbors" still residing on the property.

I came into, theoretically, control of an IL property a few years ago that was occupied by someone who planned to move out shortly.  Three years later, person was still there.  One excuse ("reason") followed another.  Never was any rent paid.  They didn't actually leave until our lawyer arranged a moving company that helped them pack all their stuff.  After they left, the property was sold.

sequoia

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Re: Tenants will not leave
« Reply #21 on: June 25, 2017, 01:51:48 AM »
The laws here consider *that* unjust, because of the impact on the person residing.

Where is here? OP is in the US. Definitely interesting idea that you have, but was just curious if it apply here. I wonder what make these people to take the money and not leaving? or take the money and pour some cement into the toilet? 

kellyincville

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Re: Tenants will not leave
« Reply #22 on: June 25, 2017, 06:52:42 AM »
The laws here consider *that* unjust, because of the impact on the person residing.

Where is here? OP is in the US. Definitely interesting idea that you have, but was just curious if it apply here. I wonder what make these people to take the money and not leaving? or take the money and pour some cement into the toilet?

From previous posts I believe joon is on the west coast US. Yes, there are cities like this in the US.

As I outlined above, in a cash for keys scenario you give them cash when they give you the keys at the property when they are leaving for the last time. The tenant signs a relinquishment of tenancy agreement. And likely scheduling a locksmith to change the locks 1/2 hour later would also be prudent.

Yes, cash for keys is unfair. But joons outlined your choice pretty well. You can get the job done (close in two weeks and swallow your pride) or you can take the moral high ground and teach those renters a lesson (long process, more expensive and lost sale).  You have experienced landlords here telling you how the system works.  A good eviction lawyer will make sure you are aware that cash for keys is an option when you meet with them.

A CA lawyer outlining cash for keys on their website:
http://robertfrenchlaw.com/real-property-law/when-to-consider-paying-a-defaulting-tenant-to-move-out-690


jooniFLORisploo

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Re: Tenants will not leave
« Reply #23 on: June 25, 2017, 08:43:08 AM »
Excellent lawyer link, kellyincville!

sequoia, the where of me is not the most relevant thing. The most relevent piece is that any landlord be familiar with the laws in their region.

Too often any of us will attempt to navigate life (whether dental work, an insurance claim, landlordling, giving notice at work) as though it's just something we can make our own decisions about. There is a law to govern almost everything, everywhere, and those laws are specific to each forest, city, building, professional field, activity, etc.

If a person owns or manages property -or rents it- it's important to study the law relevant to their location, preferably before taking any steps. (I talk more about this in my book, linked to below.)

sokoloff

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Re: Tenants will not leave
« Reply #24 on: June 26, 2017, 10:21:38 AM »
I really doubt my FIL will be giving them any money for leaving. That's just absolutely insane giving a 3 mo notice.
What's FIL's BATNA?

Be like Spock. When he looks at the situation with a cold, rational, logical point of view (ignoring what's "fair"), it's very likely that paying them to leave (and to leave the place clean and intact, with the money [in cold, hard cash] only coming when everyone is standing outside the front door and a walkthrough inspection has been done) is going to be the quickest, cheapest, and therefore the best solution.

Dicey

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Re: Tenants will not leave
« Reply #25 on: June 26, 2017, 10:42:06 AM »
I'm fine with offering money to tenants to move on, but the payout has to be conditional. If the place isn't left in good order, no dinero. The money is to get them out AND to prevent damage. Inspect thoroughly prior to payout.
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Re: Tenants will not leave
« Reply #26 on: June 29, 2017, 12:05:40 AM »
One thing you haven't told us is whether or not the tenants have a lease. If they're going month to month, the rules are different. If they've got a lease, your in-laws are locked in for the duration. Leases generally survive changes of ownership and they have to be disclosed to a buyer.

I've done an Illinois state analysis on my blog. Here's a link to what I wrote. The overall emphasis of the blog is on the residential landlord renting out a room in your house, but much of the law doesn't differentiate in terms of tenant's rights.

http://theliveinlandlord.com/?s=Illinois

One thing you have to know about the state of Illinois, is that if for any reason the judge decides your in-laws are being jerks or doing something malicious, they're on the hook for TRIPLE DAMAGES. Illinois also has some very progressive laws that make a landlord legally and financially accountable for the tenant's physical security.

Your in-laws may be stuck with a "take or pay" situation in which they give the tenants the cash value of the remainder of the lease. That's harsh, but it's one of the down sides of offering a lease when you're a landlord. You're just as constrained as the tenant is.
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FerrumB5

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Re: Tenants will not leave
« Reply #27 on: June 29, 2017, 04:34:09 PM »
One thing you haven't told us is whether or not the tenants have a lease. If they're going month to month, the rules are different. If they've got a lease, your in-laws are locked in for the duration. Leases generally survive changes of ownership and they have to be disclosed to a buyer.

I've done an Illinois state analysis on my blog. Here's a link to what I wrote. The overall emphasis of the blog is on the residential landlord renting out a room in your house, but much of the law doesn't differentiate in terms of tenant's rights.

http://theliveinlandlord.com/?s=Illinois

One thing you have to know about the state of Illinois, is that if for any reason the judge decides your in-laws are being jerks or doing something malicious, they're on the hook for TRIPLE DAMAGES. Illinois also has some very progressive laws that make a landlord legally and financially accountable for the tenant's physical security.

Your in-laws may be stuck with a "take or pay" situation in which they give the tenants the cash value of the remainder of the lease. That's harsh, but it's one of the down sides of offering a lease when you're a landlord. You're just as constrained as the tenant is.

No lease. Month to month with (unfortunately) no written agreements.

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Re: Tenants will not leave
« Reply #28 on: June 29, 2017, 04:51:38 PM »
I'm sure there's different philosophies on this, but isn't having a deposit to give back sorta the usual "payment" for not trashing the place?

FerrumB5

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Re: Tenants will not leave
« Reply #29 on: June 29, 2017, 05:40:31 PM »
I'm sure there's different philosophies on this, but isn't having a deposit to give back sorta the usual "payment" for not trashing the place?

No deposit either. The in-laws gave them everything on such great conditions (no deposit, low rent, no contract) that I'm just stunned to see how the ex-neighbors are doing this kind of shit

ixtap

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Re: Tenants will not leave
« Reply #30 on: June 29, 2017, 05:42:54 PM »
I'm sure there's different philosophies on this, but isn't having a deposit to give back sorta the usual "payment" for not trashing the place?

No deposit either. The in-laws gave them everything on such great conditions (no deposit, low rent, no contract) that I'm just stunned to see how the ex-neighbors are doing this kind of shit

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FerrumB5

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Re: Tenants will not leave
« Reply #31 on: June 29, 2017, 05:47:03 PM »
@ixtap, I guess all proverbs were based on real events. Lesson learned :(

sequoia

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Re: Tenants will not leave
« Reply #32 on: June 30, 2017, 09:53:15 AM »
I'm sure there's different philosophies on this, but isn't having a deposit to give back sorta the usual "payment" for not trashing the place?

No deposit either. The in-laws gave them everything on such great conditions (no deposit, low rent, no contract) that I'm just stunned to see how the ex-neighbors are doing this kind of shit

Whoa... that is just bad. I can not believe these people take advantage of your in-laws like that smh. Some people are just bad...

Heroes821

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Re: Tenants will not leave
« Reply #33 on: June 30, 2017, 11:51:33 AM »
If they never paid a security deposit, and don't have any paperwork for staying there AND were asked to leave three months ago wouldn't they be squatters?

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Re: Tenants will not leave
« Reply #34 on: June 30, 2017, 01:47:22 PM »
Your in-laws have now unwillingly entered into a legal dispute. You need an attorney before you do anything else. These people are squatters. I doubt your in-laws are closing in two weeks.

Goldielocks

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Re: Tenants will not leave
« Reply #35 on: June 30, 2017, 04:14:29 PM »
If they never paid a security deposit, and don't have any paperwork for staying there AND were asked to leave three months ago wouldn't they be squatters?

If they have been paying any rent, and especially if they are not sharing living space with the owners (unlike a room mate or guest), then they are on a month to month rental, and the residential tenancy act / laws apply in most jurisdictions.   

You have more ability to kick out a house guest that is now "un"-invited, than someone you offered below market rent to for a while.

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Re: Tenants will not leave
« Reply #36 on: June 30, 2017, 04:22:46 PM »
The best way to get them out is to offer them money. A few thousand is peanuts on the scale of losing a buyer and the sale of the property.

Call it a tax on the fact that they were unaware of tenant & squatter laws in their region.
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Re: Tenants will not leave
« Reply #37 on: June 30, 2017, 07:11:21 PM »
Most states if there's no written lease default to treating it as month to month and go off written notice for eviction.  You could consider trying to get the cops to evict them since there is no written lease, and effectively call them squatters.  When the cops show up and your tenants whine, they will have no lease to point to to prove they live there.  That being said, some agencies will not do this absent a court order so be ready to get thyself an attorney if needed.

FerrumB5

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Re: Tenants will not leave
« Reply #38 on: July 01, 2017, 01:29:38 PM »
To All.

In-laws are arriving to IL today (staying with us) and are going to their house tomorrow. Hopefully some things will be resolved. Cross fingers. Thanks for all your input. They just tried to be good Samaritans but...

Gronnie

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Re: Tenants will not leave
« Reply #39 on: July 01, 2017, 07:04:47 PM »
To All.

In-laws are arriving to IL today (staying with us) and are going to their house tomorrow. Hopefully some things will be resolved. Cross fingers. Thanks for all your input. They just tried to be good Samaritans but...

This is a very bad idea. All communication at this point should be through a lawyer, especially in a very tenant friendly state like IL.

SnackDog

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Re: Tenants will not leave
« Reply #40 on: July 01, 2017, 07:18:23 PM »
Are you in-laws selling partly as means of getting them out "politely"?  They wouldn't be the first to do this. Haha.

Another option to consider is seeing if the buyer is willing to deal with it. If they really like the house, they may be willing to close and then deal with the squatters.

FerrumB5

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Re: Tenants will not leave
« Reply #41 on: July 02, 2017, 08:49:09 AM »
Update. Turns out there was a deposit, but no other things like contract or lease etc as I mentioned before.

No, in-laws were trying to sell the property for the past 2-3 years and they just let the neighbors in on condition that when buyers appear on the horizon they have to vacate. The former happened - buyer is there, the latter doesn't seem to be happening

Lepetitange3

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Re: Tenants will not leave
« Reply #42 on: July 02, 2017, 12:04:56 PM »
Try local law enforcement first. Without a lease, you might get lucky and the cops toss them out.  Otherwise you need a lawyer fast.

FerrumB5

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Re: Tenants will not leave
« Reply #43 on: July 02, 2017, 04:07:05 PM »
It looks like the situations is starting to get resolved. They started packing but the close date had to be moved 2-3 weeks. Will know more next week. Thanks, guys!

Cassie

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Re: Tenants will not leave
« Reply #44 on: July 02, 2017, 06:34:20 PM »
NNL: I can't believe you kicked out a woman terminal with cancer.  When we were young we had a tenant in our upstairs apartment who broke her leg so could not work. She was only 20 and had no family, etc. Not only did we let her live there for free until she healed and could work again I unplugged my son's small TV and loaned it to her so she had something to do while laid up. We also got her groceries, etc for her. She could not navigate the steps. WE bought a house when young with 2 apartments. We needed to live in the bigger one as we had 2 kids and one due in a few weeks. The tenants refused to move after the sale. Fortunately I knew they were a very neat couple that did not like kids. We did not want to evict because it would take to long and we needed to move from another city before the baby came. They had known for a long time the house would be sold. So we went over with the kids and told them that  on a certain date we were moving in regardless if they were there or not with all our stuff and the kids. They moved so fast it was so funny:))

TheGrimSqueaker

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Re: Tenants will not leave
« Reply #45 on: July 04, 2017, 02:31:42 PM »
One thing you haven't told us is whether or not the tenants have a lease. If they're going month to month, the rules are different. If they've got a lease, your in-laws are locked in for the duration. Leases generally survive changes of ownership and they have to be disclosed to a buyer.

I've done an Illinois state analysis on my blog. Here's a link to what I wrote. The overall emphasis of the blog is on the residential landlord renting out a room in your house, but much of the law doesn't differentiate in terms of tenant's rights.

http://theliveinlandlord.com/?s=Illinois

One thing you have to know about the state of Illinois, is that if for any reason the judge decides your in-laws are being jerks or doing something malicious, they're on the hook for TRIPLE DAMAGES. Illinois also has some very progressive laws that make a landlord legally and financially accountable for the tenant's physical security.

Your in-laws may be stuck with a "take or pay" situation in which they give the tenants the cash value of the remainder of the lease. That's harsh, but it's one of the down sides of offering a lease when you're a landlord. You're just as constrained as the tenant is.

No lease. Month to month with (unfortunately) no written agreements.

That actually works in your relatives' favor. When there's no written agreement, you proceed as though it's a month-to-month tenancy. You wrap it up on or before the first of the month by issuing a formal notice. Deliver it in several different ways including registered mail. To get someone out on the 1st of September you need to deliver the notice on or before the 1st of August.

The notice must be a 30-day notice informing them that you are terminating the at-will tenancy agreement, and that they have until the 1st of August to leave. Indicate that they are still legally accountable for the condition of the building and set a date for the closing walk-through so that any damage can be noted and repaired. You have to return the damage deposit within 30 days.

If they are still there on August 1st, file a notice to vacate and also start the formal eviciton process. If I were you, I'd have the paperwork ready to go. You don't necessarily need a lawyer and can do this pro se, but find out where the courthouse is, what forms you need, and the exact details of the timing and the process.

DO NOT cash any rent checks for the month of August as that could be construed by a court as an attempt to continue renting out the space.
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Cwadda

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Re: Tenants will not leave
« Reply #46 on: July 05, 2017, 11:22:52 AM »
Quote
NNL: I can't believe you kicked out a woman terminal with cancer.  When we were young we had a tenant in our upstairs apartment who broke her leg so could not work. She was only 20 and had no family, etc. Not only did we let her live there for free until she healed and could work again I unplugged my son's small TV and loaned it to her so she had something to do while laid up. We also got her groceries, etc for her. She could not navigate the steps.

Cassie, this is extremely kind of you, but this is just not the way the bank works. If you don't pay your mortgage, you lose your house. The bank doesn't say, "Oh, Cassie, you lost your job but you know what, we'll cover your mortgage payments and give you some free groceries for a few months while you get back on your feet."

I'm very friendly with my tenants but I am very careful not to cross the line with them. If you're a landlord and unable to make this distinction then you should seriously consider hiring a property manager.

jooniFLORisploo

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Re: Tenants will not leave
« Reply #47 on: July 05, 2017, 11:46:04 AM »
^ I agree, Cwadda, but I do draw a line. Medical outcomes, for example, can vary per support vs stress. So, there are places I make exceptions. A tenant with Stage 4 cancer was actually one of my exceptions, per input from the hospital social worker re: statistical outcomes in relation to moves, etc.

A landlord is absolutely entitled to make whatever decisions she is permitted under law to make, but sometimes we have enough that we can also help a person out (if we want to).

A cool workaround can be to engage an agency to help. It's not always as limited as "tenant loses or landlord loses." I had great success asking agencies (with a tenant's permission) to bridge gaps. Win win.

Cassie

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Re: Tenants will not leave
« Reply #48 on: July 05, 2017, 04:28:07 PM »
Cwadda: at the time I was married to a man that did not have a lot of empathy for people and even he wanted to help.  This young woman lived in a studio that was in the back of our home. We used her rent to help pay our mortgage and we were young with 3 kids and not a lot of $. But we were frugal and made it work.  We did not let her live there free forever. Just long enough for her leg to heal and her to go back to work. I felt great about the decision and would do it again if in the same position.  Sometimes it is just the right thing to do.

doublethinkmoney

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Re: Tenants will not leave
« Reply #49 on: July 05, 2017, 06:47:44 PM »
Hire an attorney to evict.  The attorney will be able to do it cheap, and make sure you do it correct.

I evicted a woman with stage 4 terminal breast cancer.  She died 6-moth after she moved out.  in MN, hospital is no excuse.  A judge may give them another 30 days, but they will be out.
It's disturbing enough that you did this but the fact you tote it as a shining example is even worse.

Clearly your empathy and compassion buttons don't work.


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