Author Topic: Property in Australia  (Read 37278 times)

marty998

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4575
  • Location: Sydney, Oz
Re: Property in Australia
« Reply #200 on: October 27, 2016, 12:51:54 AM »
Big business is in the game. It's mostly private companies though. Developers don't really need to go listed, they just keep all the profits for themselves by staying private.

Mr Meriton (Harry Tribugoff) still owns thousands of the ugly shoebox apartments that his company has built.


Grogounet

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 181
  • Location: Australia
    • http://www.quest2independence.com
Re: Property in Australia
« Reply #201 on: October 27, 2016, 06:52:19 PM »
A colleague of mine just bought...
$1.5m on a single $80k salary. Had plenty of cash from previous sale.

The problem is, and according to him:
"I just hope that the interest rate doesn't go up too quickly and that my salary will keep on increasing otherwise, I would be bankrupt in 2 months"
He was saying this as it was funny.

I don't want to see him being wiped out. That's just a matter of time before he gets unfortunately...

alsoknownasDean

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1558
  • Age: 33
  • Location: Melbourne, Australia
Re: Property in Australia
« Reply #202 on: October 27, 2016, 08:10:24 PM »
A colleague of mine just bought...
$1.5m on a single $80k salary. Had plenty of cash from previous sale.

The problem is, and according to him:
"I just hope that the interest rate doesn't go up too quickly and that my salary will keep on increasing otherwise, I would be bankrupt in 2 months"
He was saying this as it was funny.

I don't want to see him being wiped out. That's just a matter of time before he gets unfortunately...
I'm surprised a bank would even lend that amount to someone on 80k (or even half that amount).

Sent from my XT1033 using Tapatalk

Grogounet

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 181
  • Location: Australia
    • http://www.quest2independence.com
Re: Property in Australia
« Reply #203 on: October 27, 2016, 08:36:17 PM »
I know he went with $400k cash and his brother as a guarantor...

But you're right, the number just don't stack up. With $1,1m mortgage (unless interest only?), he would be paying more than $5k per month... and with his salary, this means that his repayments are 100% of his salary...

They also have two cars and two kids!
I will ask him more questions...

nnls

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 817
  • Location: Perth, AU
Re: Property in Australia
« Reply #204 on: October 27, 2016, 09:05:04 PM »
A colleague of mine just bought...
$1.5m on a single $80k salary. Had plenty of cash from previous sale.

The problem is, and according to him:
"I just hope that the interest rate doesn't go up too quickly and that my salary will keep on increasing otherwise, I would be bankrupt in 2 months"
He was saying this as it was funny.

I don't want to see him being wiped out. That's just a matter of time before he gets unfortunately...

thats crazy and scary!

alsoknownasDean

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1558
  • Age: 33
  • Location: Melbourne, Australia
Re: Property in Australia
« Reply #205 on: October 28, 2016, 05:34:55 AM »
The other thing is that you could probably buy a house in the outer suburbs of many Australian cities (except maybe Sydney) for that $400K cash, and have no mortgage at all. Even if it's a long commute, that'd have to be far less stressful than being a million in the hock on an $80k income.

I thought on one 80k income the bank would be unlikely to lend more than maybe 550-600?

Sent from my XT1033 using Tapatalk
« Last Edit: October 28, 2016, 05:48:40 AM by alsoknownasDean »

waltworks

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2361
Re: Property in Australia
« Reply #206 on: October 28, 2016, 08:39:57 AM »
Sounds like USA 2007 all over again to me...

-W

limeandpepper

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3491
  • Location: Anywhere/Perth.
Re: Property in Australia
« Reply #207 on: October 28, 2016, 08:54:08 AM »
Yeah, something doesn't add up... when I was earning 40k-ish, and went to get a pre-approval, the bank said I could borrow around 200k... so someone earning 80k should really only be able to borrow around 400k.

Anatidae V

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 6457
  • Age: 28
  • Location: West Aus yo
  • Naps for all!
Re: Property in Australia
« Reply #208 on: October 28, 2016, 05:50:20 PM »
Yeah, something doesn't add up... when I was earning 40k-ish, and went to get a pre-approval, the bank said I could borrow around 200k... so someone earning 80k should really only be able to borrow around 400k.
+1 last year the bank would only lend me &DH $600k, and we were earning about $100k before tax, I think?

pancakes

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 630
Re: Property in Australia
« Reply #209 on: October 28, 2016, 09:15:13 PM »
A few years back we were told $900k on ~$140k by a broker.

We didn't go through a formal approval process because it was just a ridiculous amount for us to even consider.  I was skeptical that we'd actually get approval for it if we tried but he was very confident.

arebelspy

  • Administrator
  • Senior Mustachian
  • *****
  • Posts: 25315
  • Age: -999
  • Location: Traveling the World
Re: Property in Australia
« Reply #210 on: October 28, 2016, 09:42:24 PM »
Yeah, something doesn't add up... when I was earning 40k-ish, and went to get a pre-approval, the bank said I could borrow around 200k... so someone earning 80k should really only be able to borrow around 400k.
+1 last year the bank would only lend me &DH $600k, and we were earning about $100k before tax, I think?

It said upthread that the person put down 400k, so the bank has a decent amount of protection (25% drop when all losses are on his end, before they lose any), and said the brother was a guaranteer.  So it wasn't just on his 80k salary, most likely, but plus whatever the brother had. 

He'll have to PAY it on his 80k, most likely, but the bank may have looked at both incomes, if the brother is on the hock for the mortgage as well.
We are two former teachers who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, and now travel the world full time with a kid.
If you want to know more about me, or how we did that, or see lots of pictures, this Business Insider profile tells our story pretty well.
We (occasionally) blog at AdventuringAlong.com.
You can also read my forum "Journal."

misterhorsey

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 288
Re: Property in Australia
« Reply #211 on: October 28, 2016, 09:47:34 PM »
Don't forget that when banks given a big $ amount preapproval a lot of people get excited and take it as a compliment. Wow.  Bank X is willing to give me $XXXk.  I'm an important person!

They don't realise that the bank is being upfront and saying, 'This is how much we are going to fatten you up. We are willing to go this high, and squeeze it back out of you, slowly".

Grogounet

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 181
  • Location: Australia
    • http://www.quest2independence.com
Re: Property in Australia
« Reply #212 on: October 30, 2016, 04:01:09 AM »
Yeah, something doesn't add up... when I was earning 40k-ish, and went to get a pre-approval, the bank said I could borrow around 200k... so someone earning 80k should really only be able to borrow around 400k.
+1 last year the bank would only lend me &DH $600k, and we were earning about $100k before tax, I think?

It said upthread that the person put down 400k, so the bank has a decent amount of protection (25% drop when all losses are on his end, before they lose any), and said the brother was a guaranteer.  So it wasn't just on his 80k salary, most likely, but plus whatever the brother had. 

He'll have to PAY it on his 80k, most likely, but the bank may have looked at both incomes, if the brother is on the hock for the mortgage as well.

I have actually seen this mate on the week end, but didn't really know how to ask and what to ask...
But something doesn t stack here. Even with a guarantor, the mortgage has to be paid every month... And on $80k, you would put all the salary just paying back the mortgage.

I'm really interested to see how he got this approved and how he plays around to pay the mortgage every year...

marty998

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4575
  • Location: Sydney, Oz
Re: Property in Australia
« Reply #213 on: October 30, 2016, 04:32:49 AM »
Yeah, something doesn't add up... when I was earning 40k-ish, and went to get a pre-approval, the bank said I could borrow around 200k... so someone earning 80k should really only be able to borrow around 400k.
+1 last year the bank would only lend me &DH $600k, and we were earning about $100k before tax, I think?

It said upthread that the person put down 400k, so the bank has a decent amount of protection (25% drop when all losses are on his end, before they lose any), and said the brother was a guaranteer.  So it wasn't just on his 80k salary, most likely, but plus whatever the brother had. 

He'll have to PAY it on his 80k, most likely, but the bank may have looked at both incomes, if the brother is on the hock for the mortgage as well.

I have actually seen this mate on the week end, but didn't really know how to ask and what to ask...
But something doesn t stack here. Even with a guarantor, the mortgage has to be paid every month... And on $80k, you would put all the salary just paying back the mortgage.

I'm really interested to see how he got this approved and how he plays around to pay the mortgage every year...

Assistance from the bank of mum and dad?

Also never underestimate how generous the Family Tax Benefit scheme is. Can be worth many 10's of thousands per year.

deborah

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5621
Re: Property in Australia
« Reply #214 on: October 30, 2016, 01:26:54 PM »
Speaking of the bank of Mum and Dad, this article http://www.canberratimes.com.au/comment/the-downside-to-the-bank-of-mum-and-dad-20161028-gsd5wc.html says that over half of new home buyers are getting assistance from it, and suggests that it is a big player in increasing house prices.



Freshwater

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 649
  • Age: 42
  • Location: Sydney, Australia
Re: Property in Australia
« Reply #215 on: October 30, 2016, 07:49:22 PM »
I'm wondering if the guy on 80K has a side business that's cash in hand? Or maybe yeah, mum and dad are paying the mortgage.

alsoknownasDean

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1558
  • Age: 33
  • Location: Melbourne, Australia
Re: Property in Australia
« Reply #216 on: November 02, 2016, 04:19:14 AM »
I was thinking earlier that as the Reserve Bank typically uses interest rates as a method of keeping inflation in a certain range, how is housing treated in the 'basket of goods' that makes up CPI?

If house prices are increasing at 7% per year, then surely that would be reflected in inflation figures, or is it based only on renting? If it is based on renting only, then it's under-reporting inflation for many groups of the population. How is housing reported to have increased at 1.8% year on year?

Am I on the right track,  or the wrong train?  :)

http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/mf/6401.0
« Last Edit: November 02, 2016, 04:45:14 AM by alsoknownasDean »

deborah

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5621
Re: Property in Australia
« Reply #217 on: November 02, 2016, 03:21:42 PM »
From the FAQ page http://abs.gov.au/websitedbs/d3310114.nsf/home/Consumer+Price+Index+FAQs:

Q. Why doesn't the CPI reflect the prices I see?

A. The CPI measures the changes in price of a fixed basket of goods and services based on average household expenditure by capital city households across Australia, not of any specific family or individual. For example, it includes both rental and owner–occupier house purchase costs in the basket, which is unlikely for a single household. It is unlikely that any individual experience will correspond precisely with either the national index or the indexes for specific capital cities.



limeandpepper

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3491
  • Location: Anywhere/Perth.
Re: Property in Australia
« Reply #218 on: November 02, 2016, 11:19:49 PM »
Janda vs. Robertson:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-10-21/gen-y-should-consider-delaying-home-purchase/7951922

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-11-01/why-gen-y-should-buy-a-house-from-a-baby-boomer-parent/7983592

I find Robertson's argument for "home ownership builds wealth, renting doesn't" hilarious - basically he's saying, oh, the figures show that people who own property are richer, people who rent are poorer. Therefore, you should buy, and then you will be richer in the long run. Er - has he ever thought that it's because people who can afford to buy property in Australia were already richer to begin with?

deborah

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5621
Re: Property in Australia
« Reply #219 on: November 03, 2016, 12:07:39 AM »
And then of course, is this article http://www.canberratimes.com.au/business/the-economy/the-gen-y-housing-crisis-its-not-just-us-boomers-20161103-gsh2al.html about how it is the Gen X crowd that is stopping Gen Ys from having a house (I think - it goes all over the place).



Anatidae V

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 6457
  • Age: 28
  • Location: West Aus yo
  • Naps for all!
Re: Property in Australia
« Reply #220 on: November 03, 2016, 01:36:05 AM »
Janda vs. Robertson:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-10-21/gen-y-should-consider-delaying-home-purchase/7951922

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-11-01/why-gen-y-should-buy-a-house-from-a-baby-boomer-parent/7983592

I find Robertson's argument for "home ownership builds wealth, renting doesn't" hilarious - basically he's saying, oh, the figures show that people who own property are richer, people who rent are poorer. Therefore, you should buy, and then you will be richer in the long run. Er - has he ever thought that it's because people who can afford to buy property in Australia were already richer to begin with?
my FIL sent me the "why gen y should buy" article, and I ripped it apart for shoddy statistical work, fear mongering, and implied he thought we were stupid and unable to save without external motivation. But politely, because I want him to rebut with interesting counter points :D

limeandpepper

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3491
  • Location: Anywhere/Perth.
Re: Property in Australia
« Reply #221 on: November 03, 2016, 02:13:19 AM »
my FIL sent me the "why gen y should buy" article, and I ripped it apart for shoddy statistical work, fear mongering, and implied he thought we were stupid and unable to save without external motivation. But politely, because I want him to rebut with interesting counter points :D

Kind of scary the writer of the article is apparently trained to be a financial planner, but not once did he address the fact that it's possible to save and invest while renting and build wealth in that manner. Noooooo it's property all the way for him. With such a huge omission it's kind of hard to take him seriously.

Please do share if there are any interesting counterpoints from your FIL!

marty998

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4575
  • Location: Sydney, Oz
Re: Property in Australia
« Reply #222 on: November 03, 2016, 02:29:39 AM »
ANZ Bank posted their 2016 results today.

Embarrassed to say I struggled to figure out what story they were trying to tell. Their accounts were all over the shop with impairments, write-downs, accounting policy changes, bad debt provisions.

It looked like a dogs breakfast, especially the "pro-forma adjusted cash earnings" number. They tried to do what Westpac did earlier last year and exclude software write-offs from cash profit..

Credit growth came to a standstill at 1%... for many years the majors were running at lending book growth of 7-10%. At 1% it implies there is not going to be a lot of growth in house prices, because new mortgages are only just replacing old ones, and the overall size is not increasing anymore.

deborah

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5621
Re: Property in Australia
« Reply #223 on: November 03, 2016, 02:35:22 AM »
The thing is that for most people, property is a really good investment because it is the only way they can save. Many people end up at retirement age with just a property (their PPOR) because they have frittered away any other money they ever had. Of course, now that superannuation is a reasonable amount, they will end up with that as well - but nothing else.

If you look at the people who answer finance questions in the papers, they do advise owning your own home because it is a form of saving that most people can accept. Not because it is the best way to save, or the most reasonable (given that it costs so much to sell your existing PPOR and exchange it for a new one, and that people tend to move once every 7 years, it actually isn't such a good investment) and every so often one of them actually says this.



marty998

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4575
  • Location: Sydney, Oz
Re: Property in Australia
« Reply #224 on: November 03, 2016, 03:12:55 AM »
Yes.. because how many renters actually save the difference between rent and a mortgage...

anecdotally it does happen, (and renters on here probably do) but I wouldn't say it's the norm.

Anatidae V

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 6457
  • Age: 28
  • Location: West Aus yo
  • Naps for all!
Re: Property in Australia
« Reply #225 on: November 03, 2016, 03:26:50 AM »
Yes.. because how many renters actually save the difference between rent and a mortgage...

anecdotally it does happen, (and renters on here probably do) but I wouldn't say it's the norm.
Yup, I definitely have friends who deliberately bought a house because they knew enough of their own psychology and habits to know it was a way that would work well for them.

Part of my argument back to my FIL was based around 1. Stop pressuring us to make a hasty & therefore bad decision, and 2. Economics is individual, and this may work for some but not us given *list of reasons*.

alsoknownasDean

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1558
  • Age: 33
  • Location: Melbourne, Australia
Re: Property in Australia
« Reply #226 on: November 03, 2016, 04:40:13 AM »
From the FAQ page http://abs.gov.au/websitedbs/d3310114.nsf/home/Consumer+Price+Index+FAQs:

Q. Why doesn't the CPI reflect the prices I see?

A. The CPI measures the changes in price of a fixed basket of goods and services based on average household expenditure by capital city households across Australia, not of any specific family or individual. For example, it includes both rental and owner–occupier house purchase costs in the basket, which is unlikely for a single household. It is unlikely that any individual experience will correspond precisely with either the national index or the indexes for specific capital cities.


Fair enough, but I'm still amazed that they get a 1.8% year on year increase in the cost of housing. Even if you include Perth. :)

deborah

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5621
Re: Property in Australia
« Reply #227 on: November 03, 2016, 04:53:09 AM »
From the FAQ page http://abs.gov.au/websitedbs/d3310114.nsf/home/Consumer+Price+Index+FAQs:

Q. Why doesn't the CPI reflect the prices I see?

A. The CPI measures the changes in price of a fixed basket of goods and services based on average household expenditure by capital city households across Australia, not of any specific family or individual. For example, it includes both rental and owner–occupier house purchase costs in the basket, which is unlikely for a single household. It is unlikely that any individual experience will correspond precisely with either the national index or the indexes for specific capital cities.


Fair enough, but I'm still amazed that they get a 1.8% year on year increase in the cost of housing. Even if you include Perth. :)
There are things in the basket that cost less year on year, and things that cost more. For instance, you pay fewer $ now than 20 or 30 years ago for electronic equipment, airfares, clothes... if only those things were included, CPI would have gone DOWN.



alsoknownasDean

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1558
  • Age: 33
  • Location: Melbourne, Australia
Re: Property in Australia
« Reply #228 on: November 03, 2016, 04:54:13 AM »
From the FAQ page http://abs.gov.au/websitedbs/d3310114.nsf/home/Consumer+Price+Index+FAQs:

Q. Why doesn't the CPI reflect the prices I see?

A. The CPI measures the changes in price of a fixed basket of goods and services based on average household expenditure by capital city households across Australia, not of any specific family or individual. For example, it includes both rental and owner–occupier house purchase costs in the basket, which is unlikely for a single household. It is unlikely that any individual experience will correspond precisely with either the national index or the indexes for specific capital cities.


Fair enough, but I'm still amazed that they get a 1.8% year on year increase in the cost of housing. Even if you include Perth. :)
There are things in the basket that cost less year on year, and things that cost more. For instance, you pay fewer $ now than 20 or 30 years ago for electronic equipment, airfares, clothes... if only those things were included, CPI would have gone DOWN.
I'm aware of that,  but the ABS website shows that housing costs alone increased by 1.8% :)

If house prices are increasing by 7-10% per year (and rents also increasing), that should be reflected in the inflation figures :)
« Last Edit: November 03, 2016, 04:55:46 AM by alsoknownasDean »

limeandpepper

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3491
  • Location: Anywhere/Perth.
Re: Property in Australia
« Reply #229 on: November 03, 2016, 07:55:32 AM »
Yes.. because how many renters actually save the difference between rent and a mortgage...

anecdotally it does happen, (and renters on here probably do) but I wouldn't say it's the norm.

Well, I happen to expect more intelligent and comprehensive articles from ABC that offer more than just an oversimplified one-note argument targeted at the lowest common denominator, but perhaps that's too much to ask. :)

Ozstache

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 764
  • Age: 49
  • Location: Oztralia
Re: Property in Australia
« Reply #230 on: November 03, 2016, 02:15:17 PM »
From the FAQ page http://abs.gov.au/websitedbs/d3310114.nsf/home/Consumer+Price+Index+FAQs:

Q. Why doesn't the CPI reflect the prices I see?

A. The CPI measures the changes in price of a fixed basket of goods and services based on average household expenditure by capital city households across Australia, not of any specific family or individual. For example, it includes both rental and owner–occupier house purchase costs in the basket, which is unlikely for a single household. It is unlikely that any individual experience will correspond precisely with either the national index or the indexes for specific capital cities.


Fair enough, but I'm still amazed that they get a 1.8% year on year increase in the cost of housing. Even if you include Perth. :)
There are things in the basket that cost less year on year, and things that cost more. For instance, you pay fewer $ now than 20 or 30 years ago for electronic equipment, airfares, clothes... if only those things were included, CPI would have gone DOWN.
I'm aware of that,  but the ABS website shows that housing costs alone increased by 1.8% :)

If house prices are increasing by 7-10% per year (and rents also increasing), that should be reflected in the inflation figures :)
According to this RBA paper from 2014, http://www.rba.gov.au/publications/bulletin/2014/mar/pdf/bu-0314-4.pdf:

The CPI takes the approach of  evaluating  the  price  of  buying  a  newly  built,  free-standing  house  (excluding  the  cost  of  the  land).  Changes in the price of established housing are  NOT   taken   into   account,   as   these   largely reflect  changes  in  the  value  of  an  asset  (land) and, moreover, the purchase of existing housing  represents a transfer within the household sector (which means that there is zero net expenditure by  the  household  sector  in  these  transactions)

In other words, Australia's favourite financial sport of flipping existing properties to each other is excluded from CPI and only the build, not land (which is what has mostly gone up), cost of newly built houses are factored in.

Edit: Further to above, the CPI housing category also includes rent for renters, rates, maintenance for owners and utilities for everyone. See: http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/Lookup/6440.0Appendix102011 for more detail. Land price changes are still not included.

There's your 1.8%.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2016, 02:33:01 PM by Ozstache »

my2c+61

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 29
  • Age: 52
  • Location: Bega Australia
Re: Property in Australia
« Reply #231 on: November 04, 2016, 09:06:33 PM »
It's the recessionary interest rate we had to have ( I can hear PK throwing that line around.)

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-11-03/monetary-policy-is-creating-the-next-generation-of-rich-and-poor/7991828

I have decided it's time for me to cash out of real estate. I have listed my Shitney PPOR. To be sold before xmas.


deborah

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5621
Re: Property in Australia
« Reply #232 on: November 06, 2016, 01:54:01 AM »



limeandpepper

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3491
  • Location: Anywhere/Perth.
Re: Property in Australia
« Reply #233 on: December 17, 2016, 09:11:24 AM »

Itchyfeet

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 296
Re: Property in Australia
« Reply #234 on: December 17, 2016, 10:18:29 AM »
I also agree that it is time to cash out of the Sydney property market.

Other than Harbourside/ beachside premium property, which probably has no limit given Inter-generational wealth transfer in Australia (Australia needs a death tax of some sort), as soon as interest rates edge up the houses in vast suburbia will start selling for less.

Unfortunately, in my case my hands are tied for the moment.

I need to move back to Sydney, to take advantage of the 6 year PPOR  rule, and avoid cap gains tax on the crazy growth over the past 3 years.

It's a bit sad that tax laws may drag us back to Sydney earlier than we would otherwise choose, but with prices having risen 60% in 6 years avoiding the tax bill is a huge consideration.

i love Sydney and really don't like that we will not be living there in retirement, but it just doesn't make any financial sense to have so much wealth tied up in a roof over my head.


deborah

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5621
Re: Property in Australia
« Reply #235 on: December 17, 2016, 11:49:20 AM »
As has been pointed out, we do actually have an equivalent of death tax - CGT.



TimCinel

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 21
  • Age: 28
  • Location: Australia
    • Tim Cinel
Re: Property in Australia
« Reply #236 on: December 17, 2016, 05:46:41 PM »
Australia needs a death tax of some sort

No doubt. Unfettered transfer of wealth between generations is at odds with social mobility, meritocracy, and even free market capitalism.

Not sure it will ever get traction here, though. Getting people on board for something that, on average, is good for them and their descendants is a lot harder than it should be.

Itchyfeet

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 296
Re: Property in Australia
« Reply #237 on: December 17, 2016, 09:31:47 PM »
Fair comment on CGT, although I would imagine that a lot of the really premium property are pre-CGT assets held by the family for many years.

If you inherit a house that was a PPOR of your parentsand you make it your PPOR, do you have a CGT issue if/when you sell the place?


Itchyfeet

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 296
Re: Property in Australia
« Reply #239 on: December 18, 2016, 09:42:03 AM »
Haha. Thanks for aiding and abetting my laziness.

marty998

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4575
  • Location: Sydney, Oz
Re: Property in Australia
« Reply #240 on: December 18, 2016, 01:22:38 PM »
Did anyone see the government report on housing affordability that made no recommendations because they didn't think there was a problem?

For a moment I thought it was April Fools Day.

arebelspy

  • Administrator
  • Senior Mustachian
  • *****
  • Posts: 25315
  • Age: -999
  • Location: Traveling the World
Re: Property in Australia
« Reply #241 on: December 18, 2016, 04:16:55 PM »
they didn't think there was a problem?

As of maybe two years ago, you seemed to think the same, about there being no problem (that the housing value growth was in line with the population growth/demand, high, and not sustainable forever, but fine at the time), IIRC.

I'm curious what has changed over the last few years, if it's your opinion, or if it's the market, or something else.

Especially interesting to hear from a landlord w/ 3 properties who's actually in the thick of it, and how opinions/markets change.  :)
We are two former teachers who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, and now travel the world full time with a kid.
If you want to know more about me, or how we did that, or see lots of pictures, this Business Insider profile tells our story pretty well.
We (occasionally) blog at AdventuringAlong.com.
You can also read my forum "Journal."

deborah

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5621
Re: Property in Australia
« Reply #242 on: December 18, 2016, 07:00:23 PM »
Everyone thinks there is a problem with housing affordability, just not a housing bubble that will burst and bring down prices quickly.



arebelspy

  • Administrator
  • Senior Mustachian
  • *****
  • Posts: 25315
  • Age: -999
  • Location: Traveling the World
Re: Property in Australia
« Reply #243 on: December 18, 2016, 07:29:44 PM »
Everyone thinks there is a problem with housing affordability, just not a housing bubble that will burst and bring down prices quickly.

Ah.  Thanks for the clarification.
We are two former teachers who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, and now travel the world full time with a kid.
If you want to know more about me, or how we did that, or see lots of pictures, this Business Insider profile tells our story pretty well.
We (occasionally) blog at AdventuringAlong.com.
You can also read my forum "Journal."

marty998

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4575
  • Location: Sydney, Oz
Re: Property in Australia
« Reply #244 on: December 19, 2016, 04:41:50 AM »
Everyone thinks there is a problem with housing affordability, just not a housing bubble that will burst and bring down prices quickly.

Ah.  Thanks for the clarification.

Yeah that's right, you can still buy if you want to, and as long as a significant proportion of the world wants to buy Sydney real estate then it still makes sense to be "in the thick of it".

It just takes a stupidly disproportionately high amount of capital to do so.




potm

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 489
Re: Property in Australia
« Reply #245 on: December 19, 2016, 06:04:21 PM »
Everyone thinks there is a problem with housing affordability, just not a housing bubble that will burst and bring down prices quickly.

Ah.  Thanks for the clarification.

Yeah that's right, you can still buy if you want to, and as long as a significant proportion of the world wants to buy Sydney real estate then it still makes sense to be "in the thick of it".

It just takes a stupidly disproportionately high amount of capital to do so.

And an even more stupidly higher amount of capital after you to make it worth it.

marty998

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4575
  • Location: Sydney, Oz
Re: Property in Australia
« Reply #246 on: December 20, 2016, 05:25:21 PM »
Everyone thinks there is a problem with housing affordability, just not a housing bubble that will burst and bring down prices quickly.

Ah.  Thanks for the clarification.

Yeah that's right, you can still buy if you want to, and as long as a significant proportion of the world wants to buy Sydney real estate then it still makes sense to be "in the thick of it".

It just takes a stupidly disproportionately high amount of capital to do so.

And an even more stupidly higher amount of capital after you to make it worth it.

Amazes me where all the money comes from for this to happen. How the fuck can medians be over $1.1 million for houses?

lots of very wealthy people floating around town :/


arebelspy

  • Administrator
  • Senior Mustachian
  • *****
  • Posts: 25315
  • Age: -999
  • Location: Traveling the World
Re: Property in Australia
« Reply #247 on: December 20, 2016, 06:00:51 PM »
lots of very wealthy in debt people floating around town :/

Fixed that for you. :)
We are two former teachers who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, and now travel the world full time with a kid.
If you want to know more about me, or how we did that, or see lots of pictures, this Business Insider profile tells our story pretty well.
We (occasionally) blog at AdventuringAlong.com.
You can also read my forum "Journal."

Freshwater

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 649
  • Age: 42
  • Location: Sydney, Australia
Re: Property in Australia
« Reply #248 on: December 20, 2016, 08:36:06 PM »
lots of very wealthy in debt people floating around town :/

Fixed that for you. :)

I do know a couple that have a 1.9m mortgage. But their income is north of 500k and they have 700k offset in case one or both are out of work for a year. There are lots of people making a shedload of money!

My new neighbours paid over 2m in cash, but their money was made overseas. I'm looking forward to exchanging my homemade marmalade for a bottle of Moet, ha. EDIT: I should add that I know a friend of the estate agent, hence the inside goss on the cash sale!
« Last Edit: December 20, 2016, 08:38:07 PM by Freshwater »

deborah

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5621
Re: Property in Australia
« Reply #249 on: December 20, 2016, 09:29:21 PM »
There are not lots of people making a shedload of money. you just happen to live in a neighbourhood where people buy very expensive houses. The average Australian HOUSEHOLD has in income of $106k, while the median household gets $80k. However the top fifth are getting much richer than the other 80% - see https://www.theguardian.com/business/grogonomics/2015/sep/10/australias-rich-are-getting-richer-everyone-else-is-stagnating