Author Topic: I am tempted to sell my house  (Read 4993 times)

JLee

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I am tempted to sell my house
« on: January 18, 2018, 07:52:31 PM »
SOLD!

I have a house in Phoenix that I bought for $140k in early 2013.  I moved in 2015 and now have friends renting it for an aggregate of $1,120/mo.  My monthly cost is about $755/mo so I'm cash positive ~$365/mo (minus repairs/etc, of course).  My house has been impressively low-maintenance to date but things can/will come up eventually (I currently need a ~$2700 RV gate, or to fly out myself and build one to replace what's falling down now) and the housing market has also exploded.

It looks like I would be able to sell the house in the $220k ballpark (comps came in just north of $250k but I don't feel that is realistic), so if I factor 6% realtor commission and $6k in unanticipated / misc extra expenses, I would walk out with $200k on a mortgage balance of $118k.  Late Sept 2018 is when I'll drop out of the 2/5 residency requirement for capital gains, so I believe I'd be paying capital gains solely on the amount depreciated while it was a rental property (not entirely sure?)...but basically, I could probably cash out now and end up $80-90k better off (while losing a rental property).

I've not been overly interested in doing this because I have friends living there and I have stuff there (I moved cross-country via airline and left most of my stuff in my house), but it's getting to be enough money that I feel I'd be doing myself a disservice to not consider all options. 

What would you do?
« Last Edit: August 15, 2018, 12:39:48 PM by JLee »

waltworks

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Re: I am tempted to sell my house
« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2018, 08:21:54 PM »
I'd sell it while you have the capital gains exemption. Yeah, it's a bummer to boot your friends, but it's not $90k worth of a bummer. And if you have stuff you just left there... it's probably stuff you can just have your realtor sell off or donate if you don't want the hassle.

Get rid of it.

-W

JLee

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Re: I am tempted to sell my house
« Reply #2 on: January 18, 2018, 08:23:04 PM »
I'd sell it while you have the capital gains exemption. Yeah, it's a bummer to boot your friends, but it's not $90k worth of a bummer. And if you have stuff you just left there... it's probably stuff you can just have your realtor sell off or donate if you don't want the hassle.

Get rid of it.

-W

Oh yeah, there's nothing there that I'm all that attached to.  There'd be some massive Craigslisting and I'd move on with my life.

GrayGhost

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Re: I am tempted to sell my house
« Reply #3 on: January 18, 2018, 09:48:18 PM »
The math is fairly straightforward on this one... it's an easy decision to sell. You're barely making 4 grand a year, probably less once the expenses start to build up, and there's also the typical risks one encounters when landlording.

I'd sell, but try and contact your friends and see if they'll buy it off of you, you may be able to skinny down on some of the typical expenses/pains of selling if it works out.

JLee

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Re: I am tempted to sell my house
« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2018, 09:52:07 PM »
The math is fairly straightforward on this one... it's an easy decision to sell. You're barely making 4 grand a year, probably less once the expenses start to build up, and there's also the typical risks one encounters when landlording.

I'd sell, but try and contact your friends and see if they'll buy it off of you, you may be able to skinny down on some of the typical expenses/pains of selling if it works out.

That's not a bad idea - I'm 99% confident that nobody living there has the financial means to buy it at market value, but it's certainly worth the inquiry.

I was initially planning on moving back into my house after a few years in NJ, but at this point I would want to buy/build something entirely different than what I bought...so I can't find any reasons to hold onto it.

sequoia

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Re: I am tempted to sell my house
« Reply #5 on: January 19, 2018, 05:39:05 AM »
I'd sell, but try and contact your friends and see if they'll buy it off of you, you may be able to skinny down on some of the typical expenses/pains of selling if it works out.

This. Tell your friend you will give him/her a good discount since you are saving on realtor fees. If not, I agree with selling the place. 
« Last Edit: January 23, 2018, 12:30:16 AM by sequoia »

Another Reader

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Re: I am tempted to sell my house
« Reply #6 on: January 19, 2018, 06:26:17 AM »
The housing market in Phoenix continues to go up.  Based on a long history of boom and bust there, this will end badly.  I sold two Tempe houses for top dollar after renovating them over the last two years and don't regret it.  I may sell one more and pay off two remaining mortgages with the proceeds.

To get a good price for your house, you will likely need to do paint and carpet, fix anything that isn't in perfect working order, and your roof and A/C will need to be in good shape.  You might have to take a vacation out there to get the house sale ready.

Your rent is also significantly below market.  You should be getting closer to $1,400.  Not the greatest return on current market value, but one percent of your purchase price.  Because you rented it to friends below market to have the house available when you wanted it and did not really buy it as a rental (the pool makes it less desirable to hold as a rental), I would consider selling.

PM me and we can talk comps.,,

JLee

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Re: I am tempted to sell my house
« Reply #7 on: January 22, 2018, 06:14:47 PM »
My preliminary tax numbers look like having rental income cost me $133 in AZ state taxes and about $1.4k in federal taxes, giving me around $160/mo in net income (minus maintenance/repair).
« Last Edit: January 22, 2018, 06:54:35 PM by JLee »

tralfamadorian

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Re: I am tempted to sell my house
« Reply #8 on: January 22, 2018, 06:54:57 PM »
My monthly cost is about $755/mo so I'm cash positive ~$365/mo (minus repairs/etc, of course).

My preliminary tax numbers look like having rental income cost me $133 in AZ state taxes and about $2k in federal taxes, giving me around $155/mo in net income (minus maintenance/repair).

Wait, what? The numbers are not adding up. You're deducting mortgage interest, repair and maintenance costs and depreciation from the rental income, right? 

JLee

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Re: I am tempted to sell my house
« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2018, 06:57:28 PM »
My monthly cost is about $755/mo so I'm cash positive ~$365/mo (minus repairs/etc, of course).

My preliminary tax numbers look like having rental income cost me $133 in AZ state taxes and about $2k in federal taxes, giving me around $155/mo in net income (minus maintenance/repair).

Wait, what? The numbers are not adding up. You're deducting mortgage interest, repair and maintenance costs and depreciation from the rental income, right?

Yep. It's all via Schedule E. If I add it in the "I live here" way, I have enough to itemize and then I see more of a benefit.

For AZ, I show a net rental income of $218 but once I added property depreciation, my AZ state tax bill went from $6 to $133.

It would be nice if I'm missing something..

JLee

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Re: I am tempted to sell my house
« Reply #10 on: January 22, 2018, 07:03:16 PM »
I think the tax calculation changed because of something else in my return. I just removed the rental property and my federal amount owed decreased by $50, resident state decreased by $51, and obviously AZ is then $0.  The tax difference is not nearly as big as I thought.

Rich on Money

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Re: I am tempted to sell my house
« Reply #11 on: January 25, 2018, 05:08:37 AM »
A lot of people will say they are cash flow positive and calculate this by subtracting their mortgage from their rent.  I wish it were that easy.

According to the 50% rule in real estate, approx 50% of your rent goes to expenses.  In your case, only $560 of your rent is profit, which means you have a negative cash flow every month.   Maybe your expenses are way better than the average, but my point is your cash flow isn't as good as you think it is.  This is a very common math error for real estate investors.  My advice is sell.

Linda_Norway

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Re: I am tempted to sell my house
« Reply #12 on: January 25, 2018, 05:47:19 AM »

... I have stuff there (I moved cross-country via airline and left most of my stuff in my house), but it's getting to be enough money that I feel I'd be doing myself a disservice to not consider all options. 


What is all this stuff? If you would sell it on Graig's list, wouldn't you be able to buy back something comparable at Graig's list at your new location?

Otherwise, look into container shipping. We moved to another country once on the cheapest way to move the furniture was to rent a sea container. Across the US you probably need something on wheels.

chasesfish

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Re: I am tempted to sell my house
« Reply #13 on: January 25, 2018, 06:08:30 AM »
Yeah, you should sell.  My rough estimate is you're making 4.8% on your $90,000 in a cash on cash return.  You can get 7% in a REIT if you want real estate exposure with zero effort.

JLee

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Re: I am tempted to sell my house
« Reply #14 on: January 25, 2018, 06:12:30 PM »

... I have stuff there (I moved cross-country via airline and left most of my stuff in my house), but it's getting to be enough money that I feel I'd be doing myself a disservice to not consider all options. 


What is all this stuff? If you would sell it on Graig's list, wouldn't you be able to buy back something comparable at Graig's list at your new location?

Otherwise, look into container shipping. We moved to another country once on the cheapest way to move the furniture was to rent a sea container. Across the US you probably need something on wheels.

I moved over two years ago and rented my house furnished. The vast majority of what I left there is not something I need anymore, hence Craigslist.  Shipping is pointless because then I'd just have to store stuff here. : )

JLee

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Re: I am tempted to sell my house
« Reply #15 on: February 28, 2018, 10:20:03 AM »
I need a roof.  My first quote was $8900.

I should probably decide soon...

trollwithamustache

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Re: I am tempted to sell my house
« Reply #16 on: February 28, 2018, 10:22:41 AM »
what about sell slowly? ie ask slightly higher than the comps. That gives everyone time to sort their stuff out.

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Re: I am tempted to sell my house
« Reply #17 on: February 28, 2018, 05:13:21 PM »
I am getting roof bids as well.  Around $10,000 for a tri-level a bit over 2,000 sf.

Lots of fly by night roofers there.  Be sure to get multiple bids and check references.

JLee

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Re: I am tempted to sell my house
« Reply #18 on: March 20, 2018, 09:16:36 PM »
what about sell slowly? ie ask slightly higher than the comps. That gives everyone time to sort their stuff out.

Yeah, I am thinking June 1 - I need to get a couple more roof quotes.  My realtor is sending me comps of houses not as nice as mine ($230k for one with no garage and no pool, and $240k for one with no garage and a much smaller lot).  I think it's time!

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Re: I am tempted to sell my house
« Reply #19 on: March 21, 2018, 12:39:23 AM »
If you can get it on the market sooner, that would be best.  Schools are out in May and people like to move in June.  April and early May are the most competitive times in the Phoenix market.  Once school is out and it's 115 degrees, interest slackens.

JLee

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Re: I am tempted to sell my house
« Reply #20 on: March 21, 2018, 02:24:38 AM »
If you can get it on the market sooner, that would be best.  Schools are out in May and people like to move in June.  April and early May are the most competitive times in the Phoenix market.  Once school is out and it's 115 degrees, interest slackens.

I would like to do that but I have renters in it now and I can't get them out by then. :-(

2Birds1Stone

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Re: I am tempted to sell my house
« Reply #21 on: March 21, 2018, 06:25:25 AM »
I would also vote to sell it.

Would your renters be interested in purchasing by any chance? Maybe that could save you the commission and selling costs.

Another Reader

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Re: I am tempted to sell my house
« Reply #22 on: March 21, 2018, 06:33:39 AM »
There is no inventory right now and prices continue to climb.  The more you can do to make it move in ready when you sell, the better.  It was completely remodeled when you bought, so if your tenants cared for the house, it might only need paint, flooring and a landscaping detail.  If the paint and carpet are in pristine condition, so much the better.

Because of the pool, the house is not likely going to appeal to investors.  At your price point, it should appeal to a lot of first time buyers priced out of Tempe or looking for something with an easy commute to downtown. Spit and polish plus a little HGTV decor should move the property quickly.

JLee

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Re: I am tempted to sell my house
« Reply #23 on: March 21, 2018, 01:24:55 PM »
I would also vote to sell it.

Would your renters be interested in purchasing by any chance? Maybe that could save you the commission and selling costs.

We've discussed this and they're (some combination of) not interested/can't afford it.

There is no inventory right now and prices continue to climb.  The more you can do to make it move in ready when you sell, the better.  It was completely remodeled when you bought, so if your tenants cared for the house, it might only need paint, flooring and a landscaping detail.  If the paint and carpet are in pristine condition, so much the better.

Because of the pool, the house is not likely going to appeal to investors.  At your price point, it should appeal to a lot of first time buyers priced out of Tempe or looking for something with an easy commute to downtown. Spit and polish plus a little HGTV decor should move the property quickly.

I need a roof too, so I plan on doing the roof, maybe new carpet (bedrooms have carpet), and if paint is needed then paint as well (I suspect that paint might be perfectly fine). There's basically no landscaping, but I'll get it cleaned up so it's ready for whatever someone would want to do.

JLee

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Re: I am tempted to sell my house
« Reply #24 on: March 22, 2018, 04:54:29 PM »
Well, I did it. Notice given!

genesismachine

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Re: I am tempted to sell my house
« Reply #25 on: March 28, 2018, 10:32:32 AM »
The 2/5 capital gains exemption works different than what you're saying. It is pro-rated.

A) You have to have lived in the house for 2 years, and B) You have to have lived in the house 2 of the last 5 years to get the FULL exemption.

It pro-rates.

So if you're married and have a $500,000 exemption, then if you lived in it 1 year of the last 5 years, then you still have a $250k exemption. It pro-rates by month too.

The exemption does not apply to depreciation, so you will have to pay that regardless.

So your Sep-2018 date is probably a lot further out depending on your married status.

That being said, selling sounds like a good idea. I sold all my rentals last year and am gearing up for another crash. Or maybe it won't happen and I'll re-evaluate in a year or two.

JLee

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Re: I am tempted to sell my house
« Reply #26 on: March 28, 2018, 12:18:51 PM »
The 2/5 capital gains exemption works different than what you're saying. It is pro-rated.

A) You have to have lived in the house for 2 years, and B) You have to have lived in the house 2 of the last 5 years to get the FULL exemption.

It pro-rates.

So if you're married and have a $500,000 exemption, then if you lived in it 1 year of the last 5 years, then you still have a $250k exemption. It pro-rates by month too.

The exemption does not apply to depreciation, so you will have to pay that regardless.

So your Sep-2018 date is probably a lot further out depending on your married status.

That being said, selling sounds like a good idea. I sold all my rentals last year and am gearing up for another crash. Or maybe it won't happen and I'll re-evaluate in a year or two.

Ahh okay, so I have more time than I expected.  I am hoping it'll be gone by July, but it's good to know I have some more time! I'm not married, so not a ton of time, but any safety net is better than none.

My depreciation amount is trivial -- I want to say about $23k so far, so $3-4k in tax?

genesismachine

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Re: I am tempted to sell my house
« Reply #27 on: April 09, 2018, 01:10:05 PM »
The 2/5 capital gains exemption works different than what you're saying. It is pro-rated.

A) You have to have lived in the house for 2 years, and B) You have to have lived in the house 2 of the last 5 years to get the FULL exemption.

It pro-rates.

So if you're married and have a $500,000 exemption, then if you lived in it 1 year of the last 5 years, then you still have a $250k exemption. It pro-rates by month too.

The exemption does not apply to depreciation, so you will have to pay that regardless.

So your Sep-2018 date is probably a lot further out depending on your married status.

That being said, selling sounds like a good idea. I sold all my rentals last year and am gearing up for another crash. Or maybe it won't happen and I'll re-evaluate in a year or two.

Ahh okay, so I have more time than I expected.  I am hoping it'll be gone by July, but it's good to know I have some more time! I'm not married, so not a ton of time, but any safety net is better than none.

My depreciation amount is trivial -- I want to say about $23k so far, so $3-4k in tax?

Depends on your exact tax situation, but ~15% tax rate seems really low unless your income puts you in a very low tax bracket. My state (Oregon) also charges its own income tax (9% for my marginal rate), not sure about yours.

JLee

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Re: I am tempted to sell my house
« Reply #28 on: April 09, 2018, 01:22:52 PM »
The 2/5 capital gains exemption works different than what you're saying. It is pro-rated.

A) You have to have lived in the house for 2 years, and B) You have to have lived in the house 2 of the last 5 years to get the FULL exemption.

It pro-rates.

So if you're married and have a $500,000 exemption, then if you lived in it 1 year of the last 5 years, then you still have a $250k exemption. It pro-rates by month too.

The exemption does not apply to depreciation, so you will have to pay that regardless.

So your Sep-2018 date is probably a lot further out depending on your married status.

That being said, selling sounds like a good idea. I sold all my rentals last year and am gearing up for another crash. Or maybe it won't happen and I'll re-evaluate in a year or two.

Ahh okay, so I have more time than I expected.  I am hoping it'll be gone by July, but it's good to know I have some more time! I'm not married, so not a ton of time, but any safety net is better than none.

My depreciation amount is trivial -- I want to say about $23k so far, so $3-4k in tax?

Depends on your exact tax situation, but ~15% tax rate seems really low unless your income puts you in a very low tax bracket. My state (Oregon) also charges its own income tax (9% for my marginal rate), not sure about yours.

Capital gains are taxed at 9% in Oregon?   Damn.

AZ is 4.5% so maybe 20% (state plus 15% federal). I'll have almost no Arizona income this year, though (~$6k rental with a LOT of writeoffs).
« Last Edit: April 09, 2018, 01:25:06 PM by JLee »

JLee

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Re: I am tempted to sell my house
« Reply #29 on: July 12, 2018, 10:23:29 AM »
It's going on the market today :D

tralfamadorian

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Re: I am tempted to sell my house
« Reply #30 on: July 12, 2018, 10:45:33 AM »
It's going on the market today :D

Good luck!

patchyfacialhair

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Re: I am tempted to sell my house
« Reply #31 on: July 12, 2018, 04:19:49 PM »
If it's priced well and shows well, I'm sure it'll sell quickly. Most metro areas are pretty much seller's markets. My next door neighbor, with a smaller house that is worse in almost all respects (except a slightly larger, but unfinished backyard) than mine just sold for 25k more than we paid a year ago. He had 5 offers in the first week and the one he accepted was 5k over asking. It's nuts.

JLee

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Re: I am tempted to sell my house
« Reply #32 on: July 12, 2018, 09:24:09 PM »
If it's priced well and shows well, I'm sure it'll sell quickly. Most metro areas are pretty much seller's markets. My next door neighbor, with a smaller house that is worse in almost all respects (except a slightly larger, but unfinished backyard) than mine just sold for 25k more than we paid a year ago. He had 5 offers in the first week and the one he accepted was 5k over asking. It's nuts.

It's beautiful...new roof, new floors, and new paint inside (walls, doors, trim, ceiling, even inside the garage). My realtor said that with the market as it is now, we may be under contract as early as Monday. We'll find out!

Another Reader

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Re: I am tempted to sell my house
« Reply #33 on: July 13, 2018, 04:17:48 AM »
If it's priced well and shows well, I'm sure it'll sell quickly. Most metro areas are pretty much seller's markets. My next door neighbor, with a smaller house that is worse in almost all respects (except a slightly larger, but unfinished backyard) than mine just sold for 25k more than we paid a year ago. He had 5 offers in the first week and the one he accepted was 5k over asking. It's nuts.

It's beautiful...new roof, new floors, and new paint inside (walls, doors, trim, ceiling, even inside the garage). My realtor said that with the market as it is now, we may be under contract as early as Monday. We'll find out!

Who did the work?  I am always looking for contractors/vendors that do a good job at a fair price quickly...

JLee

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Re: I am tempted to sell my house
« Reply #34 on: July 13, 2018, 12:53:04 PM »
If it's priced well and shows well, I'm sure it'll sell quickly. Most metro areas are pretty much seller's markets. My next door neighbor, with a smaller house that is worse in almost all respects (except a slightly larger, but unfinished backyard) than mine just sold for 25k more than we paid a year ago. He had 5 offers in the first week and the one he accepted was 5k over asking. It's nuts.

It's beautiful...new roof, new floors, and new paint inside (walls, doors, trim, ceiling, even inside the garage). My realtor said that with the market as it is now, we may be under contract as early as Monday. We'll find out!

Who did the work?  I am always looking for contractors/vendors that do a good job at a fair price quickly...

They weren't perfect - they had to come back and clean up after (they left a lot of dust) and also fix a couple things (one hinge on a door wasn't replaced properly and a switch plate cover was just set in place without screws), but overall they were fast and really cheap.  If I buy another house in Phoenix in the future, I will likely call them for the work. L & A Home Improvement, Angelica @ 602-559-8977.

Another Reader

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Re: I am tempted to sell my house
« Reply #35 on: July 13, 2018, 07:22:03 PM »
If it's priced well and shows well, I'm sure it'll sell quickly. Most metro areas are pretty much seller's markets. My next door neighbor, with a smaller house that is worse in almost all respects (except a slightly larger, but unfinished backyard) than mine just sold for 25k more than we paid a year ago. He had 5 offers in the first week and the one he accepted was 5k over asking. It's nuts.

It's beautiful...new roof, new floors, and new paint inside (walls, doors, trim, ceiling, even inside the garage). My realtor said that with the market as it is now, we may be under contract as early as Monday. We'll find out!

Who did the work?  I am always looking for contractors/vendors that do a good job at a fair price quickly...

They weren't perfect - they had to come back and clean up after (they left a lot of dust) and also fix a couple things (one hinge on a door wasn't replaced properly and a switch plate cover was just set in place without screws), but overall they were fast and really cheap.  If I buy another house in Phoenix in the future, I will likely call them for the work. L & A Home Improvement, Angelica @ 602-559-8977.

Thanks!  Good luck with the sale - the market is still on fire!

iluvzbeach

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Re: I am tempted to sell my house
« Reply #36 on: July 13, 2018, 08:36:06 PM »
PTF

JLee

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Re: I am tempted to sell my house
« Reply #37 on: July 16, 2018, 08:20:02 AM »
We are under contract as of yesterday!

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Re: I am tempted to sell my house
« Reply #38 on: July 16, 2018, 01:57:24 PM »
Congrats! And thanks for keeping us updated. It's always nice to hear the end of these stories.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


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Re: I am tempted to sell my house
« Reply #39 on: July 16, 2018, 02:28:07 PM »
That was fast, very nice!

JLee

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Re: I am tempted to sell my house
« Reply #40 on: July 28, 2018, 06:51:22 PM »
They've done their inspections and submitted their response - we countered, and they signed today! Done deal, just waiting til closing :)

JLee

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Re: I am tempted to sell my house
« Reply #41 on: August 15, 2018, 12:39:30 PM »
All done!   After closing costs, realtor fees, and my costs this year (new roof, new flooring, new paint, new gate, etc) I cleared roughly $100k over my mortgage.  House sold for $250k - I paid $140k 5.5 years ago.  I'm happy with my decision!

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Re: I am tempted to sell my house
« Reply #42 on: August 15, 2018, 01:09:26 PM »
Move back to Phoenix in the next recession and do it again!

JLee

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Re: I am tempted to sell my house
« Reply #43 on: August 15, 2018, 01:24:38 PM »
Move back to Phoenix in the next recession and do it again!

lmao. I just might..I love Phoenix!