Author Topic: Has anyone invested in Jeff Brown's Bawld Guy Note Fund?  (Read 6346 times)

shanaling

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Has anyone invested in Jeff Brown's Bawld Guy Note Fund?
« on: November 01, 2015, 10:41:59 PM »
I've been looking into notes lately, and was wondering if anyone has any insights into this particular note fund. Thanks in advance!

arebelspy

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Re: Has anyone invested in Jeff Brown's Bawld Guy Note Fund?
« Reply #1 on: November 02, 2015, 05:38:14 AM »
Posting to follow.

I thought about investing with Jeff's previous note guy, then he had some problems with his company (IIRC someone within embezzling) and shut down, and I'm not a huge fan of the new guy Jeff's been using (new as in, two years or so).  But I'll be interested to hear other's perspectives.
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brentwasham

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Re: Has anyone invested in Jeff Brown's Bawld Guy Note Fund?
« Reply #2 on: November 04, 2016, 08:58:38 AM »
Hi, also looking for a good way to invest in notes.  I have listened to many of the Bawldguy podcasts and also had the initial one hour telephone conversation with Jeff Brown. (I'm getting a lot of email "push" to sign the retainer agreement but no answers to my email queries). The hump I can't get over is that "refundable" $5K retainer fee to prove you are serious. I would think the original investment check proves you are serious and how much of the company's time does it really take to get to that point? Also the Universal Life thrust in retirement planning is a red flag, to me, because of the high up-front commissions involved and needless complexity often imposed with these products. Have been through the Variable Annuity rodeo and don't want to go there again. While I see merit in some of the Bawldguy concepts espoused, there's a little too much promotion hyperbole to endear my trust. For example, are the associate business services championed really that exceptional? Anyone have ideas on how you would evaluate note funds, groups, or other means of investing in notes? I like the idea of trouble-free income and understand the risk, just not sure how to know you have a good source to handover those hard-earned investment funds.

arebelspy

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Re: Has anyone invested in Jeff Brown's Bawld Guy Note Fund?
« Reply #3 on: November 08, 2016, 09:14:13 PM »
Am I understanding correctly that investing in a note is essentially going to pay you "simple interest" rather than compound interest?  Such that the first few years are great and then it quickly turns out to be a tiny percentage when you calculate the CAGR on the note over long time frames (say 15 years)?

All loans are simple.  You have to reinvest the payments into something to make it compound.

If you have a stock and don't reinvest dividends, same thing (obviously capital growth can occur, but same with notes, depending on how interest rates move).

So the answer is: yes, but this is no different than any other investment.

Same with, say, LendingClub.  If you don't reinvest your payments into other notes when you receive them, they can't compound.
We are two former teachers who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, spent some time traveling the world full time and are now settled with two kids.
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arebelspy

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Re: Has anyone invested in Jeff Brown's Bawld Guy Note Fund?
« Reply #4 on: November 09, 2016, 08:49:26 AM »
You don't use CAGR with an investment like that, you likely use IRR, and IRR assumes you can reinvest the payments at the same rate, often a flawed assumption.
We are two former teachers who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, spent some time traveling the world full time and are now settled with two kids.
If you want to know more about us, or how we did that, or see lots of pictures, this Business Insider profile tells our story pretty well.
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CoffeeToaster

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Re: Has anyone invested in Jeff Brown's Bawld Guy Note Fund?
« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2016, 02:47:30 PM »
(I'm getting a lot of email "push" to sign the retainer agreement but no answers to my email queries)

Isn't this a red flag? I'd be concerned with any investment where I can't get direct answers.

HelloEverybody

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Re: Has anyone invested in Jeff Brown's Bawld Guy Note Fund?
« Reply #6 on: November 28, 2016, 12:36:17 AM »
Posting to follow.

I thought about investing with Jeff's previous note guy, then he had some problems with his company (IIRC someone within embezzling) and shut down, and I'm not a huge fan of the new guy Jeff's been using (new as in, two years or so).  But I'll be interested to hear other's perspectives.

hmm, would be interested in knowing more about Jeff's previous note guy/ embezzling/ being shut down... I have been investing with Dave Van Horn of PPR for 3 years and have never had an issue. He has a great track record. I assume this is not who you are referring to. Could you please clarify. Thanks!
Also, I do agree that Jeff Brown does tend to over promise and under-deliver. If one is interested in investing in his note fund I would personally recommend bypassing him and going directly to the source (Dave Van Horn with PPR)....

arebelspy

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Re: Has anyone invested in Jeff Brown's Bawld Guy Note Fund?
« Reply #7 on: November 28, 2016, 01:51:53 AM »
Posting to follow.

I thought about investing with Jeff's previous note guy, then he had some problems with his company (IIRC someone within embezzling) and shut down, and I'm not a huge fan of the new guy Jeff's been using (new as in, two years or so).  But I'll be interested to hear other's perspectives.

hmm, would be interested in knowing more about Jeff's previous note guy/ embezzling/ being shut down... I have been investing with Dave Van Horn of PPR for 3 years and have never had an issue. He has a great track record. I assume this is not who you are referring to. Could you please clarify. Thanks!

It was his pre-Dave note guy.

The interesting thing was, he said all the same phrases about that guy (he's smart as a whip, wouldn't use anyone else, been with him for years, etc.), and then that happened.  It doesn't say anything about Dave, obviously, but it does show it can happen to anyone, even someone highly recommended.  Add on top of it the risk of blindly trusting someone's judgement, and, well, make sure you do your due diligence on both the company itself AND the note itself (how it's assigned, serviced, etc.).

Feel free to ask Jeff about it, it's not like a secret or anything.

Also, I do agree that Jeff Brown does tend to over promise and under-deliver. If one is interested in investing in his note fund I would personally recommend bypassing him and going directly to the source (Dave Van Horn with PPR)....

I wouldn't bother, sadly.  I'm not a huge fan of how Dave runs his company, personally (a bit too bait and switch for me--much more talk/hype than delivery).  I think you may find it difficult to actually invest in notes with him.  I've talked with several others who have had similar experiences, but not any that have had success, unfortunately.

Like, you sign up for his site, and get on the email list, and then good luck actually getting one of the notes.

I'd be curious to hear more about your experiences, detail especially the process (though numbers would be interesting, too) because I've looked into it, and talked with others, and if you've had success, you're definitely in the minority.  :)

Note companies are similar to turn key companies in that we all want a magic place we can deposit money and get great returns.  However, from what I've seen, more of them are shiny on the presentation, and less so on the delivery.  I still just can't recommend any, though I've researched many.
We are two former teachers who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, spent some time traveling the world full time and are now settled with two kids.
If you want to know more about us, or how we did that, or see lots of pictures, this Business Insider profile tells our story pretty well.
We (rarely) blog at AdventuringAlong.com. Check out our Now page to see what we're up to currently.

HelloEverybody

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Re: Has anyone invested in Jeff Brown's Bawld Guy Note Fund?
« Reply #8 on: November 28, 2016, 05:37:51 PM »
I have say I have had good success with investing with Dave Van Horn/ PPR.  To invest in his Note Fund you need to be an accredited investor and this is what I primarily do. 12% preferred rate of return with a 3 year commitment. They have never missed a payment and I have been with them long enough for them to return 100% of my capital after 3 years.

In terms of actually buying a note, that is much more difficult. If you are not a Fund investor you really only have access to a single note to bid on per week with many bidders so the chance of you having the highest bid is small. I suspect many people are over-paying for these.  If you are invested in one of their Funds, then you (along with the other fund investors) have first access to non-performing and re-performing notes when and if they become available. In the last year or so, very few re-performing notes have become available. Dave will be the first one to tell you that his first priority is to do what is best for the Fund (and its investors) so as equity has returned to the marketplace it makes sense for the Fund to hold on to the re-performing notes as they become more valuable and collect payments, potentially sell at a later time (note, this is in contrast to Jeff Brown who may imply that notes are readily available to purchase as a Fund investor)....

I am only interested in re-performing notes and have been able to purchase a few ( six) from the Fund.  Here are a few examples, in order of most successful, to least....

(1) purchased 2nd mortgage for ~$33k July 2015 with an unpaid balance of ~$62K (with enough equity in the property to cover the debt). Homeowner never made a single payment to me after I purchased it but quickly put the property on the market which sold Feb 2016.  I profited ~ $30K in ~ 7 months. During this time PPR stood by their warranty and attempted to work with homeowner to make their agreed upon payments. They also offered to refund my purchase price but agreed that is was in my best interest to wait for the property to sell.... I would say I got very lucky on this and one should not expect this outcome in such a short time period...

(2) purchased 2nd mortgage for ~$30k Dec 2015 with an unpaid balance of ~$50K (with enough equity in the property to cover the debt). Borrower, so far, has consistently paid on time, with IRR just under 13%.

(3) purchased 2nd mortgage for ~$32k July 2015 with an unpaid balance of ~$42K (only partial equity in property to cover the debt). Homeowner often late with payments, then caught up, became late again for several months. Ultimately I decided to use the PPR warranty and they refunded my investment ~ 10 months after purchase (minus any payments I received from homeowner). I lost no money in this deal but, of course, you can argue I lost money by not having this ~$32k invested in the Fund or elsewhere over this time period...

Hope that info helps. Would love to  know the name of and hear more about 'pre-Dave note guy' if you are willing to share...

NoNonsenseLandlord

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Re: Has anyone invested in Jeff Brown's Bawld Guy Note Fund?
« Reply #9 on: November 30, 2016, 01:07:17 AM »
The first place you should be in vesting with notes is your own mortgage...

It is 100% guaranteed by real estate.  And you can never lose principle.

arebelspy

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Re: Has anyone invested in Jeff Brown's Bawld Guy Note Fund?
« Reply #10 on: November 30, 2016, 01:16:12 AM »
The first place you should be in vesting with notes is your own mortgage...

It is 100% guaranteed by real estate.  And you can never lose principle.
Well said.

But if your own mortgage is sub-4%, and you're chasing yield, and are told you'll get 10-15%, with the chance of 100%+, you see why people start tossing the dice on snake oil (not necessarily in this case, but also not necessarily NOT in this case).
We are two former teachers who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, spent some time traveling the world full time and are now settled with two kids.
If you want to know more about us, or how we did that, or see lots of pictures, this Business Insider profile tells our story pretty well.
We (rarely) blog at AdventuringAlong.com. Check out our Now page to see what we're up to currently.

HelloEverybody

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Re: Has anyone invested in Jeff Brown's Bawld Guy Note Fund?
« Reply #11 on: November 30, 2016, 06:46:42 PM »
I don't disagree with paying off your own mortgage. I like to invest my money elsewhere [with  higher yields  then my mortgage(s)] and then use that income to aggressively pay off mortgages of my rental properties and personal residence.