Author Topic: Condo for my daughter while in college  (Read 3786 times)

pegleglolita

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Re: Condo for my daughter while in college
« Reply #50 on: December 19, 2017, 12:47:55 PM »
In case any of you are speaking without knowing what dorms cost these days...at the state university where I teach (and older son goes to school), on-campus housing ranges from $900 per month to over $1500.  PER PERSON, to share an old room with no dividers and one bathroom for four people.  Plus a requirement to put $1000 into the "eat on campus" fund which is all chain restaurants instead of cafeterias.  It is MUCH cheaper for my son to rent an apartment a few blocks from campus with a friend and ride the free campus bus in or bike/walk.  If I had a daughter I would not want her in those overpriced dorms either because parking is far away and we have had several sexual assaults over the years of girls walking from cars to dorms.  I think some people have a nostalgic and out-of-date view of what dorms are like based on their college experience.  We are toying with the idea of a condo too, especially since we will have two in college at the same time for 2 years.  They don't want to live together, so we're trying to decide how much to push the issue.  They are VERY different. 

Penelope Vandergast

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Re: Condo for my daughter while in college
« Reply #51 on: December 19, 2017, 01:47:44 PM »
Most sexual assaults of young women in college take place indoors in their own living spaces, their friends' spaces, or in the living spaces of men they know. Vastly fewer assaults happen because of some boogeyman jumping out at you in the parking lot. Having your own apartment is not protecting your daughter from sexual assault. At all. All of us are far more likely to be raped and murdered by someone we know / are acquainted with than a stranger. (If you really want to do something about this, you could perhaps work to educate young men on how not to rape their college classmates.)

The idea that "dorms are dangerous" also seems rather wacky to me too; I never heard of that idea before. If anything, in many schools they keep extra close eye on kids in the dorms; you often have the institution looking over your shoulder. Heavy drinking/weed use can frequently occur there, however, and your kid might be more exposed to that sort of thing than she otherwise might.

To the OP: I also suggest having your daughter live on campus for the first year at least, then think about the condo. I agree with others that it could be weird socially when people find out that her parents bought her an apartment.

It could also just depend on the demographics of the school and what her own social scene is like. Is it a big state university where many kids are barely hanging on financially? Or is it a situation where many kids come from families rich enough to pay $150K cash for an apartment? Does she like to hang out with artsy bohemian types or business majors? This could all have an impact one way or the other (and I can see situations where it could go either way for both groups!).

I knew plenty of folks as an undergrad who rolled their eyes at the rich kids whose parents bought them condos and cars -- we thought of them as sheltered and naive, which they usually were. On the other hand, this was back when state tuition cost $1200 a semester and you could work low-wage jobs and actually have enough to pay rent and live decently. You'd graduate with $8000 in student loans, not $80,000. Those days are long gone. If I had the means I might not say no to the chance to buy my kid an apt either.

Apple_Tango

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Re: Condo for my daughter while in college
« Reply #52 on: December 19, 2017, 05:45:44 PM »
In college, my roommate’s family was quite wealthy. We were required to live in dorms first year, but after that her parents bought her a condo and she did just what you described. Except......she decided to transfer to another school. So that was a waste. I think her parents just rented it out to random kids. They probably didn’t lose money.

But I wouldn’t have wanted to live there anyway, it was in a part of the town where it was hard to walk to class. My friends and I paid out the nose for an apartment that was walkable and safe to downtown with the bars and concert hall, and to class. I wouldn’t have had it any other way :) if your daughter is the one with the apartment, there is a lot less flexibility in her roommates. What if her best friends don’t want to live there? Then she’ll be more isolated.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2017, 05:51:12 PM by Apple_Tango »

pegleglolita

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Re: Condo for my daughter while in college
« Reply #53 on: December 20, 2017, 11:33:05 AM »
Most sexual assaults of young women in college take place indoors in their own living spaces, their friends' spaces, or in the living spaces of men they know. Vastly fewer assaults happen because of some boogeyman jumping out at you in the parking lot. Having your own apartment is not protecting your daughter from sexual assault. At all. All of us are far more likely to be raped and murdered by someone we know / are acquainted with than a stranger. (If you really want to do something about this, you could perhaps work to educate young men on how not to rape their college classmates.)

Uhhhh, my point was that IN ADDITION to all of those other (more likely) areas that can be unsafe, having to take a long, creepy walk in the dark 1/4 mile from your car in the middle of the night is YET ANOTHER situation that can lead to both actual danger and (more likely) the stress of the perception of danger.  Also, I don't need you to tell me to educate young men not to rape their classmates.  I'm a university professor and the mother of two boys, I think I've got this covered without your judgment-laden finger-wagging snippypants tone.  You may not have intended for this to come off that way, but it sure as hell did.  Send me your Paypal information and I'll give you a nickel for charm school.  Sheesh.   
« Last Edit: December 20, 2017, 12:57:36 PM by pegleglolita »

ManlyFather

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Re: Condo for my daughter while in college
« Reply #54 on: December 20, 2017, 04:08:03 PM »
Most sexual assaults of young women in college take place indoors in their own living spaces, their friends' spaces, or in the living spaces of men they know. Vastly fewer assaults happen because of some boogeyman jumping out at you in the parking lot. Having your own apartment is not protecting your daughter from sexual assault. At all. All of us are far more likely to be raped and murdered by someone we know / are acquainted with than a stranger. (If you really want to do something about this, you could perhaps work to educate young men on how not to rape their college classmates.)

Uhhhh, my point was that IN ADDITION to all of those other (more likely) areas that can be unsafe, having to take a long, creepy walk in the dark 1/4 mile from your car in the middle of the night is YET ANOTHER situation that can lead to both actual danger and (more likely) the stress of the perception of danger.  Also, I don't need you to tell me to educate young men not to rape their classmates.  I'm a university professor and the mother of two boys, I think I've got this covered without your judgment-laden finger-wagging snippypants tone.  You may not have intended for this to come off that way, but it sure as hell did.  Send me your Paypal information and I'll give you a nickel for charm school.  Sheesh.

So you are turning your daughter into a car clown, and indoctrinating her into being paranoid about being alone?  Maybe you could benefit from a stint at "charm school"  Sheesh.

FINate

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Re: Condo for my daughter while in college
« Reply #55 on: December 20, 2017, 04:35:32 PM »
Most sexual assaults of young women in college take place indoors in their own living spaces, their friends' spaces, or in the living spaces of men they know. Vastly fewer assaults happen because of some boogeyman jumping out at you in the parking lot. Having your own apartment is not protecting your daughter from sexual assault. At all. All of us are far more likely to be raped and murdered by someone we know / are acquainted with than a stranger. (If you really want to do something about this, you could perhaps work to educate young men on how not to rape their college classmates.)

Uhhhh, my point was that IN ADDITION to all of those other (more likely) areas that can be unsafe, having to take a long, creepy walk in the dark 1/4 mile from your car in the middle of the night is YET ANOTHER situation that can lead to both actual danger and (more likely) the stress of the perception of danger.  Also, I don't need you to tell me to educate young men not to rape their classmates.  I'm a university professor and the mother of two boys, I think I've got this covered without your judgment-laden finger-wagging snippypants tone.  You may not have intended for this to come off that way, but it sure as hell did.  Send me your Paypal information and I'll give you a nickel for charm school.  Sheesh.

So you are turning your daughter into a car clown, and indoctrinating her into being paranoid about being alone?  Maybe you could benefit from a stint at "charm school"  Sheesh.

Can you mansplain that some more please?

ManlyFather

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Re: Condo for my daughter while in college
« Reply #56 on: December 20, 2017, 04:52:46 PM »
Most sexual assaults of young women in college take place indoors in their own living spaces, their friends' spaces, or in the living spaces of men they know. Vastly fewer assaults happen because of some boogeyman jumping out at you in the parking lot. Having your own apartment is not protecting your daughter from sexual assault. At all. All of us are far more likely to be raped and murdered by someone we know / are acquainted with than a stranger. (If you really want to do something about this, you could perhaps work to educate young men on how not to rape their college classmates.)

Uhhhh, my point was that IN ADDITION to all of those other (more likely) areas that can be unsafe, having to take a long, creepy walk in the dark 1/4 mile from your car in the middle of the night is YET ANOTHER situation that can lead to both actual danger and (more likely) the stress of the perception of danger.  Also, I don't need you to tell me to educate young men not to rape their classmates.  I'm a university professor and the mother of two boys, I think I've got this covered without your judgment-laden finger-wagging snippypants tone.  You may not have intended for this to come off that way, but it sure as hell did.  Send me your Paypal information and I'll give you a nickel for charm school.  Sheesh.

So you are turning your daughter into a car clown, and indoctrinating her into being paranoid about being alone?  Maybe you could benefit from a stint at "charm school"  Sheesh.

Can you mansplain that some more please?

Sure thing, boss!

The poster was sharing that while in the dorm, the daughter would also have a car.  She did not mention bikes, which are usually parked in things called "racks" and these "racks" are typically located RIGHT NEXT TO THE ENTRANCE OF THE DORMS!!!  If you read this one guy's blog (it's called "www.mrmoneymustache.com") you'll noticed that he thinks driving everywhere is stupid, especially if you can bike.  Given that college campuses are designed to be walkable, using a bike is even more convenient!

As for being paranoid, the poster shared that the chance of being raped while walking away from the care is exceedingly rare, and is actually worried about her daughter feeling worried (instead of being worried about something useful).

Let me know if you need other explanations!

FINate

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Re: Condo for my daughter while in college
« Reply #57 on: December 20, 2017, 05:13:13 PM »
Sure thing, boss!

The poster was sharing that while in the dorm, the daughter would also have a car.  She did not mention bikes, which are usually parked in things called "racks" and these "racks" are typically located RIGHT NEXT TO THE ENTRANCE OF THE DORMS!!!  If you read this one guy's blog (it's called "www.mrmoneymustache.com") you'll noticed that he thinks driving everywhere is stupid, especially if you can bike.  Given that college campuses are designed to be walkable, using a bike is even more convenient!

As for being paranoid, the poster shared that the chance of being raped while walking away from the care is exceedingly rare, and is actually worried about her daughter feeling worried (instead of being worried about something useful).

Let me know if you need other explanations!

Maybe you can listen more rather than being so quick to explain the obvious :)

pegleglolita, the one you're responding to (not the OP) does indeed talk about biking and walking, and riding the free campus bus elsewhere in this thread.

Also, pegleglolita does not say that the danger is only perceived ("a long, creepy walk in the dark 1/4 mile from your car in the middle of the night is YET ANOTHER situation that can lead to both actual danger and (more likely) the stress of the perception of danger.") In another post pegleglolita mentions that at their college there have been past cases of sexual assault on going from cars to dorms. I know, I know, it's difficult to pay attention to details on internet forums, but try to keep up.

Perceived or actual, as a ManlyFather you don't have the perspective that a woman does w.r.t. sexual assault and the fear of it. You're just don't, so please stop trying to belittle people if, in their best judgement, they consider it a valid concern.

« Last Edit: December 20, 2017, 05:16:58 PM by FINate »

ManlyFather

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Re: Condo for my daughter while in college
« Reply #58 on: December 20, 2017, 05:51:32 PM »
... and (more likely) the stress of the perception of danger.")

...I know, I know, it's difficult to pay attention to details on internet forums, but try to keep up.

I'm not the one ignoring details... Good luck!

/unsubscribed

englishteacheralex

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Re: Condo for my daughter while in college
« Reply #59 on: December 20, 2017, 05:54:26 PM »
The worst roommate situation I ever had was a girl whose father had bought her a condo while she was going to school. It was a two bedroom. She was living there with her boyfriend (her parents didn't know about him), and I took the other room. Found the place on Craigslist. I wasn't in school; I was working full time in my first job.

She and the boyfriend got a puppy. Then they broke up but the boyfriend kept living there for free. The puppy crapped everywhere and nobody ever took him out. The place stank. I would take the puppy on walks and they'd get mad at me for interfering. Random people were constantly coming over. Lots of fighting. I mostly camped out in my room and moved out and let them keep the deposit after two months. It sucked.

IMHO it just seemed like an entitlement situation on the girl's part. She was living on her own, rent free. You have to navigate a lot of tough decisions when you're starting out in adulthood. Seemed to me like the condo was just enabling her to take the easy way out on a lot of things.

Dorms are expensive and maybe even over-priced, but they somehow have this feeling to them that makes them unappealing, even though you might be living there on your parents' dime. Like...this is my schoolprison. Gotta work hard and get out of here. Haven't made it yet. This is a stepping stone.

Philosophically, I kinda prefer that over the homey feeling of having your own place. I don't want my kids to get too comfortable in college, you know? They might decide they never want to get out.

I know that's not the question OP was asking. Sounds like a question purely based on mathematics. Well, in that case: Personally, I own a condo, and in my real estate market and for our financial picture, it's the best of a lot of bad options. But condos kind of suck to own in a lot of ways. The biggest problem is that you have to own the property communally and condo boards aren't awesome. They make decisions much differently than I would do with my own property.

Just my two cents.

pegleglolita

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Re: Condo for my daughter while in college
« Reply #60 on: December 21, 2017, 10:53:46 AM »
OP, if you can parse through all the silliness that has swirled around my original answer to your post, I simply wanted to offer you my perspective as someone who 1) teaches at a university and lives in a university town, 2) has a child in college currently.  I was really only trying to give a counterpoint to the "dorms are cheap and good for them!" chorus.  Every university and town is different, and of course you and your daughter know that situation better than anyone here.  As I pointed out, in our smallish town dominated by the large state school, for instance, dorm rooms with no kitchen (=eating expensive meals out a lot) go for 2x the price of rent with a roommate.  Add to that the other things I mentioned, such as having to put a large chunk of money into the food fund that can only be used for eating at the many chain restaurants and few overpriced cafeterias on campus, and it's quite un-mustachian.  In our town as well, thanks to suburban sprawl and poor city planning it would be difficult and frankly unsafe to bike to any of the major grocery stores, and although some would like to think that biking everywhere is the penultimate answer to everything, it simply isn't practical in some instances.  Since you have said that you are interested in paying for your child's expenses, I am not sure why some here would so quickly poo-poo the thought of buying a condo and selling it (which MANY parents do in our town, it's not at all uncommon) and therefore saving a significant amount of money on room and board over 4 years.  I definitely understand the appeal of flexibility that comes with renting, and of being on campus if they are far from home and not familiar with the town. 

Also, contrary to the insinuations of some posters, I don't think that having some degree of apprehension about regularly walking long distances across campus alone at night as a woman means you are being "paranoid" or have been "indoctrinated".  This is the reality that every woman you know lives with their entire life.  Just ask them! #metoo  I'm not saying we should live in plastic bubbles or walk around terrified all the time, but it is something to reasonably consider when selecting housing.       

CoffeeR

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Re: Condo for my daughter while in college
« Reply #61 on: December 21, 2017, 08:26:36 PM »
OP, if you can parse through all the silliness that has swirled around my original answer to your post, I simply wanted to offer you my perspective as someone who 1) teaches at a university and lives in a university town, 2) has a child in college currently.  I was really only trying to give a counterpoint to the "dorms are cheap and good for them!" chorus.  Every university and town is different, and of course you and your daughter know that situation better than anyone here.  As I pointed out, in our smallish town dominated by the large state school, for instance, dorm rooms with no kitchen (=eating expensive meals out a lot) go for 2x the price of rent with a roommate.  Add to that the other things I mentioned, such as having to put a large chunk of money into the food fund that can only be used for eating at the many chain restaurants and few overpriced cafeterias on campus, and it's quite un-mustachian.  In our town as well, thanks to suburban sprawl and poor city planning it would be difficult and frankly unsafe to bike to any of the major grocery stores, and although some would like to think that biking everywhere is the penultimate answer to everything, it simply isn't practical in some instances.  Since you have said that you are interested in paying for your child's expenses, I am not sure why some here would so quickly poo-poo the thought of buying a condo and selling it (which MANY parents do in our town, it's not at all uncommon) and therefore saving a significant amount of money on room and board over 4 years.  I definitely understand the appeal of flexibility that comes with renting, and of being on campus if they are far from home and not familiar with the town. 

Also, contrary to the insinuations of some posters, I don't think that having some degree of apprehension about regularly walking long distances across campus alone at night as a woman means you are being "paranoid" or have been "indoctrinated".  This is the reality that every woman you know lives with their entire life.  Just ask them! #metoo  I'm not saying we should live in plastic bubbles or walk around terrified all the time, but it is something to reasonably consider when selecting housing.     
Thank you pegleglolita! I appreciate your comments and thoughts on the matter. As I have mentioned elsewhere, it has become clear to me that a large contingent of Mustacian strongly believe that providing too much help to anyone actually hurts them. Obviously there is some truth to that, however, I suspect many of the respondents (not all) are simply reflecting on their own path in life, on their own hardship(s) and believe that the appropriate way forward is one that is similar to what they experienced and lived through. Interestingly enough in some ways my desire for my children is based out of life experience as well. My parents paid for my college and I graduated with an advanced degree with no debt. I cannot tell you how grateful I am to my parents for this gift. My desire is to give my children the same gift. Again, as stated elsewhere, the desire is not absolute and depends on behavior and many other factors.

As for the financial aspects of purchasing a condo, it is clear to me that financially it is the least expensive way to pay for her housing (except her living at home). Dorms are expensive and so are apartments!  Maybe you can save money by moving into a house with 4+ roommates, but most of these are in not-the-nicest-neighborhoods. Can things go wrong? Of course! For me the money works out even if there is no roommate, she decides the needs a different place to live (unlikely, this is a nice place and she knows it), she decides she must attend another college, etc. Many things can happen, the truth is the condo would also be a diversification investment for me. The only way I can see loosing money is the housing market collapses and for some reason my finances have changed and I have to sell. Could that happen? Yes. Could something happen I did not consider? Yes. Finally (as you mentioned yourself), it is not that unusual a move for parents in this town.

Of course, the other issue is that if I purchase a place for my daughter to live in I will have scarred her by not letting her character developed properly (she will be spoiled, etc.). We will have to make the judgement call as parents based on what we observe. I can assure you though she has taken some hard knocks in this world already and I am not a helicopter dad. Not that anyone should misunderstand... she does at times drive me up the wall and I most definitely do not agree with all her choices. The joys and anxieties of being a parent.

Would she do better in a dorm academically? Obviously I do not know and will likely never know, but I doubt it for many reasons. Interestingly I know of parents who purchased a place for their son because he was struggling academically in the dorms and moving him into his "own" place helped enormously. The exception does not make the rule, but I am not convinced it is the exception. I know of at least one person (son of a good friend of mine) that is thriving in a dorm environment.

I must thank you for bringing up the safety aspect of all this. Franky, I confess, I did not think of that much (my ignorance as a guy). The condo is in a gated community and even though there are no guarantees in life and nothing is completely safe, every bit helps.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2017, 09:15:16 AM by CoffeeR »

Dee18

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Re: Condo for my daughter while in college
« Reply #62 on: December 22, 2017, 05:45:55 AM »
There are so many variables here.  OP knows the details of the area where the school is.  I teach at a small university where there is close in parking for commuting students, and many nearby condos and apartments, but almost everyone lives on campus the first year so most friendships are formed there. At this school her daughter would miss out on becoming friends with many others in her class by not living in the dorm.  To me, meeting people very different from this I had grown up with was an important part of college.  I wouldn't base this solely on financial considerations, although those also vary from one of institution to another.  (My daughter attends a private college where a room and 21 (healthy; not fast food) meals a week costs  $9000/year with free laundry, a fabulous work out center, etc. The large state university in my city has all the fast food vendors and charges significantly more) I also think living in a dorm is a great rite of passage.  Since my freshman year of college I have always appreciated the luxury of choosing the people with whom I live.  :).

clarkfan1979

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Re: Condo for my daughter while in college
« Reply #63 on: December 29, 2017, 11:58:08 AM »
Maybe, however, it only makes sense to me (right now) if my daughter occupies it for 4+ years. It is possible that I will keep the condo many years after this date. It is (partially) a way of getting my feet wet on rental properties. There is also a diversification aspect to this purchase.

What are the rents like for a similar condo? And how does that imputed rent stack up compared to PITI, HOA, repairs and capex? And for potentially keeping it as a rental in the future- add in vacancy and management.

Student rentals can be a lucrative rental niche but IMO they take more work if you manage yourself vs vanilla SFH.

I have two SFH that are rentals in two different college towns for the past 10 years. I love it. Cash flow and appreciation has been great.

For a condo, if you hold for 4 years, you will break even at best. I would consider it a waste of money and time.

The main reason I am against condo's near campus is because there are typically lots of them and many other parents try to do the same thing. With a typical hold period of 3 years, there are typically tons of them for sale. When you go to re-sell you it will be very difficult to see any appreciation.

If you buy a large single family home (4 or 5 bedrooms) near campus and hold for 10+ years, you can make some good money. 
« Last Edit: December 29, 2017, 12:03:11 PM by clarkfan1979 »

CoffeeR

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Re: Condo for my daughter while in college
« Reply #64 on: December 29, 2017, 01:02:23 PM »
For a condo, if you hold for 4 years, you will break even at best. I would consider it a waste of money and time.
I can see that if the rental is viewed as a stand-alone decision. Once I add the fact that the alternative is to pay rent, the numbers work out differently every which way I look at them.

clarkfan1979

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Re: Condo for my daughter while in college
« Reply #65 on: December 31, 2017, 10:22:55 AM »
I understand the argument of dorms vs. renting an apartment. Dorms can be expensive and if someone thinks their kid can rent an apartment cheaper, go for it. Some parents buy their kid a $2,000 meal plan and the kid mostly eats cold cereal. I was an athlete and a big eater my freshman year, so the meal plan was very much worth it to my parents.

However, going one step further and buying a condo with a 3-4 year hold period is much different. I really don't see that as an investment. I see that as gift to my kid with a financial cost.

Do you think your kid could get roommates to sign a one-year lease? I have one-year leases on my properties but they are single family homes very close to campus. One college requires students to take 9 units of summer school as a graduation requirement. This particular college has more students that live there during the summer than most.

If you think the numbers work in favor of buying, share some numbers. I promise to be kind and realistic.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2017, 10:24:33 AM by clarkfan1979 »

Jon Bon

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Re: Condo for my daughter while in college
« Reply #66 on: January 01, 2018, 03:31:32 PM »
Something else worth noting....

Most college landlords are assholes. And absent of that they might be legit companies, but they have all the leverage and they know it. Sure you might find a unicorn, but it's doubtful. This is my personal experience in a few different college towns so YMMV.

You might be buying a place further out so you might not have this problem, however then she is just another commuter and won't get the 'college experience' that some of the others have mentioned.

Where I am there are TONS of doubles, I would pick one of these rent one side to your daughter and her friends, then rent out the other side as well. However that is just what I would do. I do have some experience in this, but it's not terriblely difficult.  I've found that college students are usually very good tenants.

Lots of folks on here make a great living in real estate, and we almost all started with a single property......




CoffeeR

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Re: Condo for my daughter while in college
« Reply #67 on: October 07, 2018, 03:55:09 PM »

For those who replied to my question. Thanks.

We ended up not buying the condo and my daughter is renting in a gated community, going to college, having a good time. At the end we decided we did not want to be landlords. Also, having my daughter deal with "management" at a rental unit is a real good learning experience, one she would not have if I was her landlord. I know that the "management" of the unit she is in is decidedly average (with a lot worse available), it is her first experience in such matters and she has already told me she is thinking of moving out and finding a home to lease with a couple of friends. If that is a good idea is another question for another day (it could go either way).

Thanks again.

MoneyMatrix

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Re: Condo for my daughter while in college
« Reply #68 on: October 08, 2018, 11:58:33 AM »
I think that's probably a good choice. I'm all for rental property in the right situations, but if you have a set timeline to buy and then sell, you might be stuck buying high and selling low.  Plus it limits your options. I rented a room in a condo in college that the parents had bought in a similar situation. They unfortunately bought at a peak and when their son finished, prices had gone down quite a bit. 
If you do the math and plan to hold long term, then you can get through those downturns, but it's tougher if you have a timeline that's not flexible.

tralfamadorian

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Re: Condo for my daughter while in college
« Reply #69 on: October 08, 2018, 12:22:17 PM »
Thanks for coming back and letting us know what you decided @CoffeeR !