Author Topic: Planned Obsolescence products: Anything made high quality anymore?  (Read 5343 times)

kamas

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Planned obsolescence: noun
noun: planned obsolescence

    a policy of producing consumer goods that rapidly become obsolete and so require replacing, achieved by frequent changes in design, termination of the supply of spare parts, and the use of nondurable materials.

Is there ANY product in the world or any company that does NOT make cheap garbage with planned obsolescence in mind? It's such a waste. If they made anything actually durable and reliable it would not cost much more to make and they will have very happy customers, and it will not produce all that waste in landfills.
Any examples of something that is built without "planned obsolescence"?

Papa bear

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Re: Planned Obsolescence products: Anything made high quality anymore?
« Reply #1 on: February 06, 2017, 04:56:05 PM »
There's an entire thread on buy it for life.  You could get some ideas there.


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Re: Planned Obsolescence products: Anything made high quality anymore?
« Reply #2 on: February 06, 2017, 04:58:52 PM »
If you look on zero waste blogs, there are often suggestions for long-lasting products. A search for "buy it once" might get you things you like as well.
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Metric Mouse

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Re: Planned Obsolescence products: Anything made high quality anymore?
« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2017, 08:10:37 PM »
Modern firearms. Many of them will last several lifetimes.
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Re: Planned Obsolescence products: Anything made high quality anymore?
« Reply #4 on: February 07, 2017, 06:48:01 AM »
L.L. Bean and Patagonia come to mind. Bean has lifetime replacement, no questions asked, but they also make their stuff to not suck. Patagonia is big on BIFL, repair and recycle when you can't repair. I started using their products a few years ago, and so far I've been really happy.

Most modern cars are actually more reliable than cars from 25 years ago. Some of the electronics decisions may be questionable, but from a mechanical standpoint, they're pretty darn good.

In my professional life, all of the high-end photo/video gear is rock solid. The lenses far outlast the camera technology, but even the cameras are pretty bulletproof. They get replaced for feature/technology reasons, not because they wear out. We have a Canon C300, and while it doesn't shoot 4K or high frame rate, it's a damn solid piece of gear, and still puts out great footage. We just put in the order for a Mark II, which I'm sure will also be a workhorse for us (and the Mark I isn't going anywhere).

I started buying better shoes, and they stopped wearing out on me. They require some minimal care, but it's worth the time. I can also take them to a cobbler and get them inexpensively repaired, which you can't do with cheap shoes.

You tend to pay a premium for the good stuff, but it's often less expensive in the long run.
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brute

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Re: Planned Obsolescence products: Anything made high quality anymore?
« Reply #5 on: February 07, 2017, 07:11:27 AM »
EliteFTS. The squat rack and bench that I have from them should last through several apocalypses.

ASUS RoG laptops. I get 6-8 years of heavy use out of them

HP Compaq LA2405wg monitors. The ones I am using right now are 8 years old and still going strong

Le Creuset enameled cast iron cookware. Even if it gets messed up, they'll replace it for free, for life

Dunham shoes. I'm still wearing work boots from 10 years ago. I've replaced insoles every few years and they're almost like new.

It's more money up front, but the payoff is there for more expensive items if you find the right ones.

lthenderson

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Re: Planned Obsolescence products: Anything made high quality anymore?
« Reply #6 on: February 07, 2017, 09:31:39 AM »
There is still lots of stuff available that is made to last lifetimes. I made the decision about ten years ago that I was through buying cheap replaceable crap and was willing to pay a premium for stuff that will last forever. It takes lots of research at times to find them but with the internet, it is possible.

ketchup

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Re: Planned Obsolescence products: Anything made high quality anymore?
« Reply #7 on: February 07, 2017, 09:58:24 AM »
In my professional life, all of the high-end photo/video gear is rock solid. The lenses far outlast the camera technology, but even the cameras are pretty bulletproof. They get replaced for feature/technology reasons, not because they wear out. We have a Canon C300, and while it doesn't shoot 4K or high frame rate, it's a damn solid piece of gear, and still puts out great footage. We just put in the order for a Mark II, which I'm sure will also be a workhorse for us (and the Mark I isn't going anywhere).
I can vouch for this.  My GF is a pro photographer and she put about 270,000 shutter actuations on her Canon 5D Mk II in 2.5 years and it's still going with zero issues (she bought it used with only 5,000 actuations from a rich person that likes to buy nice things and barely use them).  She's since bought a new Canon 5D Mark IV last year to "replace" it with the Mark II on secondary/backup duty now, but I'm sure in that capacity it'll last as long as she asks it to.  The shutter is only officially rated at 150,000 clicks by Canon.  99% of users that are not a working pro will not wear out a modern DSLR ever.

And yes, good lenses last forever if taken care of.  Decades.

IBM/Lenovo Thinkpad and Dell Latitude (not Inspiron) laptops that aren't completely abused will last a decade if you let them.  Any decent desktop computer will also essentially last as long as you're willing to use it (or the OS is supported, and you can always throw Linux on old systems).  Maybe replace the hard drive (and battery in a laptop) every five years.  And back your shit up anyway, dammit.

"Good" headphones.  I have a pair of Sony MDR-V6 that I bought from a friend ~6 years years ago after he used them for years too.

Weight plates.  Unless you do something really stupid, good luck wearing those out.

Cast iron cookware - self explanatory

Decent folding metal dog crates last a long time if you are careful when folding them up so they don't bend.

Mes Amis dog leashes last forever, take a beating, and don't mind being washed like the cheap ones.

I'll be 26 in a few months and I'm still using my $10 leather wallet I bought in eighth grade.

Shoes are somewhere I need to adopt this mindset more.  I bought this cheapy pair probably eight months ago and they still look fine but the tread on the bottom is almost completely gone.  My last cheap pair at least lasted long enough to look trashy.

Ocelot

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Re: Planned Obsolescence products: Anything made high quality anymore?
« Reply #8 on: February 11, 2017, 09:30:50 PM »
I think the quality of high-end everything is either similar or better than it ever was* - it's just the proliferation of cheap options has reduced everyone's expectations of what things cost. Cheaply made products are so ridiculously cheap to buy now that it makes the reasonable prices quality goods cost look exorbitant.

As a bike mechanic, I hear a constant refrain about "Parts/bikes these days wear out so quickly, not made to last" etc, and it's absolutely not true. Good stuff now lasts longer and performs way, way better than anything made 20, or even 10 years ago. When people hold up examples of parts from the 70s-80s that are still working well, they tend to be either or both of two things - Parts that were expensive then and not representative of the millions of cheaply made 10-speeds that flooded the market, and/or actually absolutely flogged and worn out but the customer has zero experience with how well a part in good condition works and thinks chains constantly skipping and brakes that barely even slow the bike are normal.

*Edit - Maybe not cellphones etc, but I don't think we'll see mega durable options for those until the technology settles down a bit.

Metric Mouse

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Re: Planned Obsolescence products: Anything made high quality anymore?
« Reply #9 on: February 12, 2017, 02:05:30 AM »
I think the quality of high-end everything is either similar or better than it ever was* - it's just the proliferation of cheap options has reduced everyone's expectations of what things cost. Cheaply made products are so ridiculously cheap to buy now that it makes the reasonable prices quality goods cost look exorbitant.

As a bike mechanic, I hear a constant refrain about "Parts/bikes these days wear out so quickly, not made to last" etc, and it's absolutely not true. Good stuff now lasts longer and performs way, way better than anything made 20, or even 10 years ago. When people hold up examples of parts from the 70s-80s that are still working well, they tend to be either or both of two things - Parts that were expensive then and not representative of the millions of cheaply made 10-speeds that flooded the market, and/or actually absolutely flogged and worn out but the customer has zero experience with how well a part in good condition works and thinks chains constantly skipping and brakes that barely even slow the bike are normal.

*Edit - Maybe not cellphones etc, but I don't think we'll see mega durable options for those until the technology settles down a bit.
Survivorship bias is strong with this group. And people forget so quickly how much goods used to cost. People used to darn socks. Everybody used to darn their socks to make them last. Because they either had to saddle up a horse and ride a half day into town to spend a half-day's wages on them, or spend several hours hand making a pair, after saddling up a horse and riding a half day into town to buy the material. Now I can buy four pairs for a half-hour's wage from any store in town; takes less time than darning. Sure they might not last as long as my grandfather's but they don't need to - replacements are so cheap in terms of both time and money that it's an inefficient use of my time to darn them. Very similar for wrenches, cookware, furniture etc.
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GrumpyPenguin

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Re: Planned Obsolescence products: Anything made high quality anymore?
« Reply #10 on: February 12, 2017, 08:34:13 AM »
I agree with everything Ocelot said.  Well stated.

There's just a proliferation of cheaper choices now.  Whether that's a good thing... debatable, but quality products still exist.

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Re: Planned Obsolescence products: Anything made high quality anymore?
« Reply #11 on: February 12, 2017, 09:38:07 AM »
American Giant sweatshirts?
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Re: Planned Obsolescence products: Anything made high quality anymore?
« Reply #12 on: February 12, 2017, 09:46:41 AM »

Cast iron cookware - self explanatory


If you're using modern cast iron cookware... it ain't the same stuff as the old stuff.  The old stuff is much lighter weight and is honed glass smooth.  Yes, the new stuff will last forever... but the old stuff will last forever ... and is MUCH nicer to work with.
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Re: Planned Obsolescence products: Anything made high quality anymore?
« Reply #13 on: February 12, 2017, 05:17:55 PM »
vehicles getting better. I had an 1988 toyota truck that conked out at 150k miles. A 1977 Datsun 210, 1982 Ford econoline van, 1987 Ford Thunderbird, in my family that hardly went over 100k before all went under. 2000 Saturn SL at 200k. My current daily driver 2007 Yaris is at 230k miles; my SO's dd, a 2005 Hyundai Santa Fe at 220k.

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Re: Planned Obsolescence products: Anything made high quality anymore?
« Reply #14 on: February 13, 2017, 02:13:06 AM »

Cast iron cookware - self explanatory


If you're using modern cast iron cookware... it ain't the same stuff as the old stuff.  The old stuff is much lighter weight and is honed glass smooth.  Yes, the new stuff will last forever... but the old stuff will last forever ... and is MUCH nicer to work with.
If it's newer than 150 years old, it's just not the same. My grandmonther's great grandmother's pan is still the best.
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Re: Planned Obsolescence products: Anything made high quality anymore?
« Reply #15 on: February 13, 2017, 07:21:01 AM »
L.L. Bean lifetime guarantee. 

Cars last a lot longer than they used to when I was growing up. 

Computers are cheaper and last longer until being obsolete.  My first Pentium cast $3K in 1995 and lasted 3 years before needing replacement.  My last computer was $1200 and lasted 6 years. 

Quote
I think the quality of high-end everything is either similar or better than it ever was* - it's just the proliferation of cheap options has reduced everyone's expectations of what things cost. Cheaply made products are so ridiculously cheap to buy now that it makes the reasonable prices quality goods cost look exorbitant.

Agreed.  You can go to Primark and pay $5 for a t-shirt that falls apart in 3 washes, or spend $30 on a T-shirt at L.L. Bean that you can replace indefinitely. 


Reynold

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Re: Planned Obsolescence products: Anything made high quality anymore?
« Reply #16 on: February 13, 2017, 12:31:54 PM »
What bothers me about the short lifetime of things now isn't things like clothes, and cookwear, because those are easy to replace if they have issues.  It is "infrastructure" items, like light switches, and plumbing parts.  We had a leaking shower valve in our previous house, just dripped sometimes, but it would have cost hundreds of dollars to swap out because we would have either had to replace the shower enclosure or cut a hole in the wall in the back, unsolder the $10 valve, solder in a new one, replace the wallboard, and repaint the wall, if not the bathroom, to get it to match.  Requiring both a plumber (I've tried doing plumbing soldering, and I'm not satisfied with the reliability of my joints) and someone to do drywall/painting (similarly with the drywall and my ability to finish it properly).  A $20 valve could have lasted another decade or two.  We've been told the "designer" faucets costing close to $1000 have the same $10 insides as the cheap ones, where are ones built to last? 

Same deal when our well pump failed, as the well guy was putting in a new one he said "By the way, this pump won't last as long as the one I just pulled out."  Great, so a company saved a couple hundred dollars making the pump, which we would have happily paid, so we could pay $1500 to get it replaced ten years earlier, as well as having another unexpected failure. 

We did at least find out about a concrete bottomed water heater from our local utility company, so we wouldn't have the bottom of a cheap Home Depot one rust out and flood our finished basement unexpectedly and have to pay hundreds of dollars every 8-10 years instead of every 20-30 years for a plumber to replace it. 

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Re: Planned Obsolescence products: Anything made high quality anymore?
« Reply #17 on: March 13, 2017, 10:58:54 PM »
Modern firearms. Many of them will last several lifetimes.
Haha, especially since all too many of the ones sold today are safe queens! I bought a bolt action .22 off an older gentleman a few years ago who claimed to have mail-ordered it from Sears as a ten-year-old. That was before firearms were serialized apparently. Works as well as the rest of them.
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Re: Planned Obsolescence products: Anything made high quality anymore?
« Reply #18 on: March 14, 2017, 09:46:08 AM »
Modern firearms. Many of them will last several lifetimes.
Haha, especially since all too many of the ones sold today are safe queens! I bought a bolt action .22 off an older gentleman a few years ago who claimed to have mail-ordered it from Sears as a ten-year-old. That was before firearms were serialized apparently. Works as well as the rest of them.

I just inherited a 1940 Stevens rifle from my grandfather in excellent condition. I imagine it will easily last another three generations or more without any care at all other than an occasional oil wipe down.

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Re: Planned Obsolescence products: Anything made high quality anymore?
« Reply #19 on: March 16, 2017, 03:18:56 AM »
Modern firearms. Many of them will last several lifetimes.
Haha, especially since all too many of the ones sold today are safe queens! I bought a bolt action .22 off an older gentleman a few years ago who claimed to have mail-ordered it from Sears as a ten-year-old. That was before firearms were serialized apparently. Works as well as the rest of them.

I just inherited a 1940 Stevens rifle from my grandfather in excellent condition. I imagine it will easily last another three generations or more without any care at all other than an occasional oil wipe down.
Nice! And will probably take game just as good as it did 70 years ago.
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Re: Planned Obsolescence products: Anything made high quality anymore?
« Reply #20 on: March 30, 2017, 03:22:43 PM »
Modern firearms. Many of them will last several lifetimes.

The lifetimes of the owners of the gun or the lifetimes of the people on the other side of it?

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Re: Planned Obsolescence products: Anything made high quality anymore?
« Reply #21 on: March 31, 2017, 07:02:58 AM »
I see this everyday in HVAC.. I rip out 40 year old furnaces, and 25 year old hot water heaters... The stuff we install might last 15 years if you're lucky. They keep outlawing refrigerants and the price of a jug of r-22 is over $900. Two years ago it was $90. I now have to rip out good equipment because the cost of repair is too close to brand new.
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I just ordered a pair of Drew's boots. They are made to be rebuilt. 10 years is not out of the ordinary on these shoes. Tools are getting difficult. I buy and rebuild old wood working equipment to get quality.

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Re: Planned Obsolescence products: Anything made high quality anymore?
« Reply #22 on: April 01, 2017, 06:35:38 AM »
I think tolerance also comes into play for some things. For the last 5 years our furnace has acted up when the temp drops below the mid-20s. I work with it since that happens so seldomly. Our laptop is 7 years old. A year ago the hard drive finally went and I had to replace it. Our iPad is 6 years old and not as snappy as it used to be. Our PS3 is almost 10 years old now.

It's been rare that I've owned something to failure and we keep everything until it dies. I have a hard time believing I just have the magic touch in picking devices that don't break. I think I just have a little more patience than most people do these days. Some things have become inexpensive enough that when a unit starts acting up the first thought is to replace it instead of trying to see if it's fixable.
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Re: Planned Obsolescence products: Anything made high quality anymore?
« Reply #23 on: April 01, 2017, 07:01:56 AM »
There are a few categories of things that you can't seem to buy "quality" anymore without stepping up into a ridiculous price range. Appliances such as dish washers, ovens, and microwaves tend to fall into this category.

Most other items just require not buying the cheapest. I cant think of the last mid-to-high end item purchase that failed early.


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Re: Planned Obsolescence products: Anything made high quality anymore?
« Reply #24 on: April 02, 2017, 10:26:18 PM »
There's a reason American cars didn't get six-digit odometers until the 1990s. Warranties used to be 1 year/10k miles.

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Re: Planned Obsolescence products: Anything made high quality anymore?
« Reply #25 on: April 02, 2017, 10:43:23 PM »
Lunchboxes: https://www.lunchbox.ca/

I'd recommend getting one at least 5 1/2", since the 4 1/2" one I have is just a little narrow. 

It's lasted me a while and I get comments on it all the time.

They aren't cheap, but they are built to last and should get a person through an entire career.  You can sometimes find used ones on ebay.

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Re: Planned Obsolescence products: Anything made high quality anymore?
« Reply #26 on: July 27, 2017, 07:49:20 AM »
I think the quality of high-end everything is either similar or better than it ever was* - it's just the proliferation of cheap options has reduced everyone's expectations of what things cost. Cheaply made products are so ridiculously cheap to buy now that it makes the reasonable prices quality goods cost look exorbitant.

As a bike mechanic, I hear a constant refrain about "Parts/bikes these days wear out so quickly, not made to last" etc, and it's absolutely not true. Good stuff now lasts longer and performs way, way better than anything made 20, or even 10 years ago. When people hold up examples of parts from the 70s-80s that are still working well, they tend to be either or both of two things - Parts that were expensive then and not representative of the millions of cheaply made 10-speeds that flooded the market, and/or actually absolutely flogged and worn out but the customer has zero experience with how well a part in good condition works and thinks chains constantly skipping and brakes that barely even slow the bike are normal.

*Edit - Maybe not cellphones etc, but I don't think we'll see mega durable options for those until the technology settles down a bit.

Agreed on the bicycles. I rode a Trek and a Cannondale thousands and thousands of miles and never once had to even adjust detailers, brakes, wheels, etc. Just put air in the tires and oil the chain. My cousin still rides my old Trek 5000. My buddy still has my Cannondale.
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Re: Planned Obsolescence products: Anything made high quality anymore?
« Reply #27 on: July 27, 2017, 08:22:55 AM »
I think tolerance also comes into play for some things. For the last 5 years our furnace has acted up when the temp drops below the mid-20s. I work with it since that happens so seldomly. Our laptop is 7 years old. A year ago the hard drive finally went and I had to replace it. Our iPad is 6 years old and not as snappy as it used to be. Our PS3 is almost 10 years old now.

It's been rare that I've owned something to failure and we keep everything until it dies. I have a hard time believing I just have the magic touch in picking devices that don't break. I think I just have a little more patience than most people do these days. Some things have become inexpensive enough that when a unit starts acting up the first thought is to replace it instead of trying to see if it's fixable.

We are having the same discussion at home regarding our dishwasher. All the parts work... sometimes. But on occasion it does not want to drain the water and does not come clean. I then have to crawl under and pull out the power to the pump in order to reset it. It then works fine for a few loads. Repeat.

My wife wants it gone, but it is the best dishwasher we have ever had(when it works). I just want to keep resetting it until something else breaks. It really pisses me off when mechanical things still work but the electronics controlling them break.

When we bought a new stove (17 years ago), we wanted a dial to control the oven, so there was no control board to wear out. They did not exist on the showroom floor in our area. So far that Maytag stove still going strong (with electronics controlling the stove), but I know the day we bought it it's death will be electronic, not mechanical. Just a matter of time.

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Re: Planned Obsolescence products: Anything made high quality anymore?
« Reply #28 on: July 27, 2017, 08:38:20 AM »
I'm skeptical of the claim newer items are lower quality, if fact I believe the opposite. Most items have never been so cheap and reliable. When we see at item that is 20 years old and working fine this is survivorship bias. All the crappy ones died or were replaced and the good stuff remains. All the unreliable models are sitting in land fills somewhere.
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Re: Planned Obsolescence products: Anything made high quality anymore?
« Reply #29 on: July 27, 2017, 09:03:07 AM »
In regards to appliances, we live in interesting times. The old stuff was built extremely well, designed for repair and made of high quality materials. But accounting for inflation, nobody today would be willing to pay what those appliances cost when they were new. Competition thrived on innovation, features and quality (remember Ol' Lonely, the Maytag Repairman?). Today competition seems to be about undercutting on cost. If you can convince the consumer that 5-7 years is an acceptable life for a white good, why design and build for anything more?

Sadly, I can't seem to find anything on the market today that will last 30-40 years, no matter the price or if it's dressed up as "commercial grade". Vintage suits me just fine.

ketchup

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Re: Planned Obsolescence products: Anything made high quality anymore?
« Reply #30 on: July 27, 2017, 09:38:41 AM »
In regards to appliances, we live in interesting times. The old stuff was built extremely well, designed for repair and made of high quality materials. But accounting for inflation, nobody today would be willing to pay what those appliances cost when they were new. Competition thrived on innovation, features and quality (remember Ol' Lonely, the Maytag Repairman?). Today competition seems to be about undercutting on cost. If you can convince the consumer that 5-7 years is an acceptable life for a white good, why design and build for anything more?
This is very real.  Everything electronic these days is stupid-cheap compared to the past, and people's consumer demands and expectations have adjusted accordingly. 

My grandpa gave me his old VCR about 10 years ago, and told me he paid $800 for it in the early 80s.  Nobody today would pay over two grand (equivalent with inflation) for even a bleeding-edge technological equivalent.

My dad's old HP laser printer was originally five grand in the late 80s (he bought it in the 90s from the first owner).  It was a beast, and lasted him until around 2005.  I bought a laser printer/scanner/copier a few months ago for $99.  No, it won't last 20 years, but I don't care.

I remember my dad buying a "clearance model" a year or two out of date desktop computer in 1998 for about $1300.  It was nothing special *at all* on a technical level, and he replaced it in 2003.  Nowadays, you can buy a last-year's-model entry level PC for a couple hundred bucks, and it'll probably be useful for 7-8 years.

My cousins would get their parents to buy $80 SNES games in the early 90s.  Nobody is paying $130 (equivalent) for a single video game in 2017.  $40-60 is the standard now.

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Re: Planned Obsolescence products: Anything made high quality anymore?
« Reply #31 on: July 27, 2017, 10:48:59 AM »
In regards to appliances, we live in interesting times. The old stuff was built extremely well, designed for repair and made of high quality materials. But accounting for inflation, nobody today would be willing to pay what those appliances cost when they were new. Competition thrived on innovation, features and quality (remember Ol' Lonely, the Maytag Repairman?). Today competition seems to be about undercutting on cost. If you can convince the consumer that 5-7 years is an acceptable life for a white good, why design and build for anything more?
This is very real.  Everything electronic these days is stupid-cheap compared to the past, and people's consumer demands and expectations have adjusted accordingly. 

My grandpa gave me his old VCR about 10 years ago, and told me he paid $800 for it in the early 80s.  Nobody today would pay over two grand (equivalent with inflation) for even a bleeding-edge technological equivalent.

My dad's old HP laser printer was originally five grand in the late 80s (he bought it in the 90s from the first owner).  It was a beast, and lasted him until around 2005.  I bought a laser printer/scanner/copier a few months ago for $99.  No, it won't last 20 years, but I don't care.

I remember my dad buying a "clearance model" a year or two out of date desktop computer in 1998 for about $1300.  It was nothing special *at all* on a technical level, and he replaced it in 2003.  Nowadays, you can buy a last-year's-model entry level PC for a couple hundred bucks, and it'll probably be useful for 7-8 years.

My cousins would get their parents to buy $80 SNES games in the early 90s.  Nobody is paying $130 (equivalent) for a single video game in 2017.  $40-60 is the standard now.

Yep.  My 1951 stove cost about $350, which is $3375 in 2017 dollars.  Yes, there are people that buy $3300 stoves today, but (IMO) they're not buying them to cook on.  They're buying them because they look really fancy.  (I am sure there are exceptions, but my limited observational experience is that the cost of the kitchen is inversely proportional to the amount of cooking inside it.)

We bought an estate sale sewing machine that had the original receipt inside.  I forget the date/original value, but I believe the "today's dollars value" was about $4k.

And I don't fully buy the survivorship bias.  Electronics have made things cheap... and in many cases they've made things extremely subject to failure.  They don't seem to build a lot of power tolerance into modern appliances.  Compare that to computers and cars -- each which used to be very intolerant of environmental problems and have now evolved to be extremely tolerant.  I can't remember the last time I've had an issue that I suspected was related to dirty power on a computer (and I have awful, dirty power at my house).  But I've repaired/scrapped many appliances due to blown mother boards: DVRs, garage door openers, dish washer, washing machine, television, etc.
We bought
Some will sell their dreams for small desires
Or lose the race to rats
Get caught in ticking traps
And start to dream of somewhere
To relax their restless flight

HildaCorners

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Re: Planned Obsolescence products: Anything made high quality anymore?
« Reply #32 on: August 19, 2017, 12:59:27 PM »
Keep in mind that the cr*p products from many decades ago haven't survived. Not everything made in "the good old days" was well built. I'm far happier with the "apartment grade" gas stove my landlords bought than with the 1980s vintage one that finally gave out. The new one actually has burners that produce a good amount of heat.

One advantage we have now is the internet ... we can look up product reviews and choose things that offer the best value. Value = cost and durability.
Been there, done that

NoStacheOhio

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Re: Planned Obsolescence products: Anything made high quality anymore?
« Reply #33 on: August 28, 2017, 06:14:02 AM »
Yep.  My 1951 stove cost about $350, which is $3375 in 2017 dollars.  Yes, there are people that buy $3300 stoves today, but (IMO) they're not buying them to cook on.  They're buying them because they look really fancy.  (I am sure there are exceptions, but my limited observational experience is that the cost of the kitchen is inversely proportional to the amount of cooking inside it.)

I would love a Viking so much ... AND I'd cook with it!
The first step is acknowledging you have a problem, right?

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