Author Topic: Pants! Why must buying tactical pants feel like stepping around landmines?  (Read 3563 times)

Daley

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So, I think I need to bite the bullet and just buy some pants new and full price. I've done the Goodwill and thrift store thing for years, and it's getting harder and harder to find anything that will stand up, let alone fit me anymore. A capsule wardrobe is also starting to appeal to me more and more, but I need some... environment and application flexibility. Unfortunately, the more I research, the more my eyes feel like they want to bleed, and honestly? The type of pants that seem most suited to what I'm after are from a culture that drives me mad. Of all the pants I've owned over the years and bought used, I've only come across one brand (thus far) that have really stood up. Those pants? 5.11 Tactical. I've had used 5+ year old 5.11s bought as grubby work pants that I've worn through everything from tornado cleanup to trench digging outlive pants bought new.

So, just by some new 5.11s, dummy... right? Wrong. I went down to their brick and mortar earlier to reconnoiter, and they had nothing that really fit what I was actually after. They were either painfully obviously cargo pants or too flimsy for my needs. Since, I've fallen down a tactical pants hole, and the culture of most of the people these pants are sold to is making me... itchy. I'm not some weekend warrior, CCW, jingoistic, hunter, wanna-be paramilitary, prepper-hoarder thug. I just want durable, comfortable, practical pants for a capsule wardrobe that I can use to work and live in.

Here's a list of features I really need/want if they're really going to last:

-French fly/waist stay
-Gusseted crotch
-Double reinforced knees (w/kneepad pockets optional, but preferred)
-Comfort waist
-Ripstop fabric
-Stain resistant
-Fade resistant
-Stealth-y cargo pockets(?)
-Double or triple reinforced stitching in key stress points
-Lifetime warranty
-Reasonably classic, timeless design
-A style/cut that's likely to still be in production in a few years
-Spring-Summer-Fall weight (Winter can always be augmented with a good pair of thermals)

I basically kind of want/need pants that have the capability of tactical cargos without blatantly and obviously looking like sloppy tactical cargos. Something durable enough to do hard work in, but with clean enough lines to pass as business casual or wear to a church or synagogue without looking like some immature punk who walked in wearing cargo pants. Not costing nearly $100 a pair would be a bonus, as I'm not made of money.

What I've found so far:

The 5.11 Kodiaks currently on clearance caught my attention, but they don't have any left in my size inseam (though certainly can be overcome), and I'd ideally prefer something a bit more stain, rip and wrinkle resistant (stain resistance can be fixed, the other two not so much). Unfortunately, the modifications needed would more than kill any savings over other options, void the warranty, and still come up short... never mind the fact that if I ever wanted more, they're, well... discontinued.

The 5.11 Stonecutters also caught my attention, but the knees look way too flimsy, and the odd color mismatch between the fabric in the tops and bottoms is throwing me. Also, $80 a pair, man. Ouch.

The Tru-Spec Ascent might work, but I know nothing about them other than their warranty is only for two years, and they heavily pimp NRA memberships all over their website - which is frankly turning me off, as I'm not sure I want to do business with a company like that... though I know that's unfortunately the culture I'm apparently "buying into" desiring durable pants with lots of pockets. (Not to get too political, and no offense intended to the very people here who might be able to give me the best advice.)

I also looked over what Dickies had, but the only gusseted pants they sell are obvious cargos and I've never found their traditional cuts to fit me comfortably, anyway - even if I loved their durability.

I'm immensely practical, and certainly won't let perfection get in the way of good enough... but if I'm dropping real money, I'd like to actually find something I'll be happy with, and do business with a company that won't completely make me crawl out of my skin morally and ethically as a Yeshua seeking, peace loving, tree hugging kind of crunchy granola and Hawaiian shirt wearing guy.

Anyone have any suggestions or know of something that might work?
« Last Edit: September 27, 2018, 10:22:53 PM by Daley »

Lkxe

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Re: Pants! Why must buying tactical pants feel like stepping around landmines?
« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2018, 10:23:35 PM »
Maybe Duluth Trading?


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sol

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Re: Pants! Why must buying tactical pants feel like stepping around landmines?
« Reply #2 on: September 27, 2018, 10:31:33 PM »
Have you tried soft shell climbing pants?  Companies like Mountain Hardwear usually make a "guide" version that is extra reinforced in the wear areas, and they always have cargo pockets.  They're my favorite pants, mostly for the freedom of movement they allow.

The possible down side, depending on where you live, is that they tend to look a little too "sporty" for conservative east coast types, especially in some colors..  They fit right in where I live, where everyone is wearing fleece jackets and boots in the winter anyway.

The more durable ones are heavier fabric and kind of warm for summer wear.  They're definitely no good for shorts weather, like in cases where you might get away with lightweight long pants designed for fishing.

driftwood

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Re: Pants! Why must buying tactical pants feel like stepping around landmines?
« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2018, 07:54:09 AM »
So, just by some new 5.11s, dummy... right? Wrong. I went down to their brick and mortar earlier to reconnoiter, and they had nothing that really fit what I was actually after.

If you grow your beard out they will fit better.

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Re: Pants! Why must buying tactical pants feel like stepping around landmines?
« Reply #4 on: September 28, 2018, 08:22:38 AM »
Have you looked at Carhartt? Target demographic is construction / farming / physical labor in tough conditions.  Getting a more business look may be difficult, but have a look.

Hubs has found pants at Menards (regional DIY big box) that have a rip stock fabric, but not too heavy. I can check the brand.

https://www.carhartt.com

Landís End or Costco or LL Bean?

GuitarStv

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Re: Pants! Why must buying tactical pants feel like stepping around landmines?
« Reply #5 on: September 28, 2018, 08:45:33 AM »
You can get Kevlar pants and jeans made for motorcyclists (to withstand crashes).  I figure they would be pretty tough (at least as tough as rip-stop fabric).

Daley

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Re: Pants! Why must buying tactical pants feel like stepping around landmines?
« Reply #6 on: September 28, 2018, 08:59:03 AM »
Maybe Duluth Trading?

Interesting, but the stuff I'm finding closer in line with what I'm after apparently has some durability issues. Thank you, though! I'll keep looking through their catalogue.

Have you tried soft shell climbing pants?  Companies like Mountain Hardwear usually make a "guide" version that is extra reinforced in the wear areas, and they always have cargo pockets.  They're my favorite pants, mostly for the freedom of movement they allow.

I had not even been aware, but I'll take a look. Appreciate the alternate category to look at, Sol!

You can get Kevlar pants and jeans made for motorcyclists (to withstand crashes).  I figure they would be pretty tough (at least as tough as rip-stop fabric).

Another category! Thanks Stv.



Have you looked at Carhartt? Target demographic is construction / farming / physical labor in tough conditions.  Getting a more business look may be difficult, but have a look.

Hubs has found pants at Menards (regional DIY big box) that have a rip stock fabric, but not too heavy. I can check the brand.

https://www.carhartt.com

Landís End or Costco or LL Bean?

Carhartt! I'm actually finding some promising stuff there. Thank you!

Unfortunately, we have no Menards or Costco in our region. I've not been too impressed with what little used Land's End I've found over the years... and I kind of forgot about LL Bean. Honestly, this kind of feels like new territory for me. Even with the "rough and tumble" of either retail warehouse or on-site tech support in the past, I've lived a pretty soft life up until the past year or so... so this is kind of new territory for me, especially since in the past I just bought what was used, cheap and fit, not giving much heed to brand preference. I also have no immediate peers to ask under the current circumstances.



So, just by some new 5.11s, dummy... right? Wrong. I went down to their brick and mortar earlier to reconnoiter, and they had nothing that really fit what I was actually after.

If you grow your beard out they will fit better.

I already oscillate between Norm Abrams and grizzled longshoreman as it is. I won't go full Dusty Hill just to get away with it.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2018, 09:02:19 AM by Daley »

MicroRN

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Re: Pants! Why must buying tactical pants feel like stepping around landmines?
« Reply #7 on: September 28, 2018, 10:11:34 AM »
What about pants geared towards EMT/ paramedic/ firefighters?  Those wear like iron.

Daley

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Re: Pants! Why must buying tactical pants feel like stepping around landmines?
« Reply #8 on: September 28, 2018, 10:33:43 AM »
What about pants geared towards EMT/ paramedic/ firefighters?  Those wear like iron.

That's kind of partly where the tactical pants market overlaps, and why I'd been looking there in the first place. Apparently 5.11 is pretty big with the local LEO/EMT/FF community as well (three different cops and an EMT came into the local 5.11 shop for pants during the short window of time I was there looking over their current offerings). It's kind of why I went there first beyond just the fact that I have two pairs of their pants, with the ripstop pair not much more worn looking today than the day I bought it used. (Can't say the same for the canvas ones, as they're finally starting to wear out, stain, and be beyond mending, but it took a dog bite and 60 feet of trench digging in wet red clay for three days in a row to get it to that point.) I've been looking towards hard/dirty industry uniform clothes, but honestly am not that familiar with who and what is out there. They're not really occupations conducive to having "lightly used" clothes donated to the local thrift shops. How I even wound up finding two pair of 5.11s at a Goodwill is still kind of beyond me. Best I can figure, it was some rich weekend warrior who either got bored or who's waistline changed too much to keep.



I have a few errands to run today, but there's apparently a shop with some Carhartt Full Swing Cryder work pants in stock in an area I'm passing through. Seems to cover most of the list from the website description (excuse ripstop), so it might be worth the couple of minutes to look.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2018, 10:41:08 AM by Daley »

Daley

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Re: Pants! Why must buying tactical pants feel like stepping around landmines?
« Reply #9 on: September 28, 2018, 01:56:52 PM »
I have a few errands to run today, but there's apparently a shop with some Carhartt Full Swing Cryder work pants in stock in an area I'm passing through. Seems to cover most of the list from the website description (excuse ripstop), so it might be worth the couple of minutes to look.

Feh. Not there. The search continues.

Rubic

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Re: Pants! Why must buying tactical pants feel like stepping around landmines?
« Reply #10 on: September 28, 2018, 02:29:23 PM »
I own five pair of the 5.11 pants in Covert Khaki, one for each workday.  They
were  purchased >5 years ago, still hold up great, and will probably last until
my (indeterminate) FIRE date.

In general I trust clothing which is targeted toward LEO folks, because
they're pretty demanding of the quality.  For example, I have an LEO
night vest for cycling (no police designation on the material) because
it's vastly superior to the civilian versions.

sol

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Re: Pants! Why must buying tactical pants feel like stepping around landmines?
« Reply #11 on: September 28, 2018, 02:32:12 PM »
For example, I have an LEO night vest for cycling (no police designation on the material) because
it's vastly superior to the civilian versions.

linky?

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Re: Pants! Why must buying tactical pants feel like stepping around landmines?
« Reply #12 on: September 28, 2018, 04:01:04 PM »
Have you researched the Propper brand. They hit a lot of your requirements, and are usually $50 to $70 for a new pair. I've seen the brand a lot with 'on the job' types, and hardly at all with crazy prepped types, so choosing Propper is more in line with your conscious.

I'll also buy you a pair of USCG ODU pants, if you give me a size and height. Them pants'll outlast you, the end of the world, and your ugly corpse. They're also legal for civillian use as long as the emblem is removed.

Daley

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Re: Pants! Why must buying tactical pants feel like stepping around landmines?
« Reply #13 on: September 28, 2018, 05:07:51 PM »
I own five pair of the 5.11 pants in Covert Khaki, one for each workday.  They
were  purchased >5 years ago, still hold up great, and will probably last until
my (indeterminate) FIRE date.

Oh for a time machine and the ability to get the original Covert Khakis! From what I've read and understand, the new ones are nothing like the old ones. This is also one of the reasons why I feel like I keep going back to 5.11 and trying to go that route like a moth to a flame.

I'm already seriously starting to get to a point where I really want to just ignore others expectations, learn to embrace and love cargo pants under all conditions, and just wear fargin' 5.11 TDUs for any and all occasions that requires clothing for the rest of my life and just hope and pray gun nuts don't mistake me for one of their own.

My only remaining concern is a repeat of an accident last year with one of my 5.11s. When I had to bob and weave going through our kitchen one morning, the cargo pouch pleat on a leg firmly caught the handle on a cabinet door. The encounter broke a solid red oak panel. I've had multiple similar scares in our bathroom, but without the horizontal velocity to do any real damage. Yet another practical reason to have less obvious pockets.



Have you researched the Propper brand. They hit a lot of your requirements, and are usually $50 to $70 for a new pair. I've seen the brand a lot with 'on the job' types, and hardly at all with crazy prepped types, so choosing Propper is more in line with your conscious.

Hmmm, had not come across them yet. The STL III intrigues me. I might have to reach out to the one brick and mortar in the area who carries Propper to see if they have any I can lay my hands on. It'll have to wait until next Wednesday at the earliest, though.

I'll also buy you a pair of USCG ODU pants, if you give me a size and height. Them pants'll outlast you, the end of the world, and your ugly corpse. They're also legal for civillian use as long as the emblem is removed.


Rubic

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Re: Pants! Why must buying tactical pants feel like stepping around landmines?
« Reply #14 on: September 29, 2018, 06:09:20 AM »
For example, I have an LEO night vest for cycling (no police designation on the material) because
it's vastly superior to the civilian versions.

linky?

Sol,

Sorry, it was about 15 years ago that I purchased this vest.  My cousin is in
law enforcement and I ordered a couple from one of his catalogs (one for
my brother as a gift).  They're very sturdy and visible, with velcro to adjust
if you need to wear over heavy winter clothing.  I've actually received some
complements from motorists on how visible I appear at night.



Rural

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Re: Pants! Why must buying tactical pants feel like stepping around landmines?
« Reply #15 on: September 29, 2018, 09:47:56 AM »

I'm already seriously starting to get to a point where I really want to just ignore others expectations, learn to embrace and love cargo pants under all conditions, and just wear fargin' 5.11 TDUs for any and all occasions that requires clothing



I'll tell you I've done this for most (not quite all*) occasions requiring clothing, and surely if I can do it as a female "of a certain age," most people can. I generally wear screamingly obvious Wranglers.




*I've resorted to dress slacks when giving presentations at formal events or attending funerals/weddings.

JLee

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Re: Pants! Why must buying tactical pants feel like stepping around landmines?
« Reply #16 on: October 01, 2018, 11:01:00 AM »
I bought some of these on their kickstarter/indiegogo/whatever it was and I quite like them, with a few minor complaints: https://offthegridsurplus.com/shop/trailblazer-offroad-overlanding-pants/

They're my favorite pants so far.

letired

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Re: Pants! Why must buying tactical pants feel like stepping around landmines?
« Reply #17 on: October 01, 2018, 11:22:11 AM »
If you have the time/patience, I have had very good luck with Ebay saved searches, once you know what you're looking for. It can take a while for stuff to pop up though. Might be a good source for things you know are good but are hard to find/discontinued?

Daley

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Re: Pants! Why must buying tactical pants feel like stepping around landmines?
« Reply #18 on: October 03, 2018, 10:18:26 AM »
I appreciate all the feedback thus far. However, I'm sticking a pin in it for now. Larger fish to fry.

Thank you all. Update when I might be able to get back to this, and hope the advice might help others in the meantime.

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Re: Pants! Why must buying tactical pants feel like stepping around landmines?
« Reply #19 on: October 03, 2018, 10:38:12 AM »
PTF.

For me it is more about the closet space than just not wanting to change clothes. I just want something practical, that can be worn everywhere.

JLee

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Re: Pants! Why must buying tactical pants feel like stepping around landmines?
« Reply #20 on: October 03, 2018, 10:45:36 AM »
I bought some of these on their kickstarter/indiegogo/whatever it was and I quite like them, with a few minor complaints: https://offthegridsurplus.com/shop/trailblazer-offroad-overlanding-pants/

They're my favorite pants so far.

Update on these...I emailed the company with my complaints (side pocket is too small, zipper is low quality, and the reinforced knife clip area isn't quite wide enough).  Their v2 has already fixed the zipper and side pocket, and on their ~March version they will add a half inch of width to the reinforced patch.  I love small companies!

bognish

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Re: Pants! Why must buying tactical pants feel like stepping around landmines?
« Reply #21 on: October 03, 2018, 11:30:28 AM »
I get Carharts from the local farm stores: Cal Ranch, IFA or local grocery store with a western wear department. Check Sierra Outlet too if you don't mind taking a chance on sizing ordering online. Reasonably priced and last forever. Their lined pants are so nice in the winter too.

Papa bear

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Re: Pants! Why must buying tactical pants feel like stepping around landmines?
« Reply #22 on: October 03, 2018, 08:22:28 PM »





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Re: Pants! Why must buying tactical pants feel like stepping around landmines?
« Reply #23 on: October 03, 2018, 11:04:19 PM »
I have BLACKHAWK tactical pant. It's quiet good.

ROF Expat

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Re: Pants! Why must buying tactical pants feel like stepping around landmines?
« Reply #24 on: October 10, 2018, 01:32:32 AM »
Daley,

Check out the Orvis Ultimate Khakis. 

They're very heavily built.  The fabric is 9.5 oz, which is heavier than almost anything else I've found and doesn't require an extra knee layer.  They aren't gusseted, but the normal size is cut very full, so you may not miss it.  They are very heavily built and hold up extremely well.  No extra pockets, but the regular pockets are big and deep.  They hold up to hunting in briar but still look good with a blazer. 

Normal price is around $109, but there is often (and currently) a two for $168 deal.  Given how long they last, I feel they are good value.  I still wear two that I think I bought in 2008.  I bought two more earlier this year (because I lost weight, not because the first two aren't still in good shape). 

Orvis has a great return policy, so you can return them if you're not happy with them.  And they give 5% of pre-tax profits to he environment. 

I buy quite a bit of Orvis stuff (along with LLBean and Lands End).  I like that all three companies still build a lot of their products to last.  I have used their luggage and fishing gear for decades.  When they show wear or break after years of hard use, I send them back to Orvis for refurbishing and repair, which they do for a very reasonable cost, even if they no longer make the product.  How many companies still do that? 

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Re: Pants! Why must buying tactical pants feel like stepping around landmines?
« Reply #25 on: October 10, 2018, 07:13:58 AM »
Daley,

Check out the Orvis Ultimate Khakis. 

They're very heavily built.  The fabric is 9.5 oz, which is heavier than almost anything else I've found and doesn't require an extra knee layer.  They aren't gusseted, but the normal size is cut very full, so you may not miss it.  They are very heavily built and hold up extremely well.  No extra pockets, but the regular pockets are big and deep.  They hold up to hunting in briar but still look good with a blazer. 

Normal price is around $109, but there is often (and currently) a two for $168 deal.  Given how long they last, I feel they are good value.  I still wear two that I think I bought in 2008.  I bought two more earlier this year (because I lost weight, not because the first two aren't still in good shape). 

Orvis has a great return policy, so you can return them if you're not happy with them.  And they give 5% of pre-tax profits to he environment. 

I buy quite a bit of Orvis stuff (along with LLBean and Lands End).  I like that all three companies still build a lot of their products to last.  I have used their luggage and fishing gear for decades.  When they show wear or break after years of hard use, I send them back to Orvis for refurbishing and repair, which they do for a very reasonable cost, even if they no longer make the product.  How many companies still do that?

From their site right now:

"His Favorite, Times Two! Buy 2 Ultimate Khakis, Save $50.
To take advantage of this offer, choose any two Classic or Trim Fit Ultimate Khakis (8K4Y, 8K57, 12PF) and add them to your basket. The price will be automatically reduced at checkout. Offer expires November 4, 2018 at 11:59 PM ET."

Daley

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Re: Pants! Why must buying tactical pants feel like stepping around landmines?
« Reply #26 on: October 25, 2018, 06:59:47 PM »
Brief update. This weekend, apparently 5.11 is having a sidewalk sale at their corporate stores. I got suckered in to take a look and bought a pair of their stonecutters without looking them over too closely. They had them on for $30 (normally $80) and thought, hey! Such a deal! They don't look as bad in person as they do online, they're comfortable, plenty of pockets, and the price seemed right.

Well, I got them home and started looking at them closer. The stitching wasn't great. There was yoga pant material in the waistband and for the front pockets, and I know how well that stuff holds up. I hadn't noticed how light the fabric was. They just felt... cheap. So, without removing any of the tags, I took them back for a return along with my wife.

Now, my wife tried on their jeans in the past, and loved them. The jeans she loved (but hadn't bought any yet) were tagged for the sidewalk sale, and they're normally $70 a pop. The sidewalk sale had them for around $26, and they had multiple pairs in her size. So, she's looking at the jeans while I go to return them, and I'm still somewhat enthusiastic about the quality of some of their pants and clearly wanting to do business with them, but realizing that these just weren't those pants - not that it mattered anyway on a possible exchange, they literally only had one pair in my size if I even wanted to try and exchange them, which I didn't. The same guy who rang me up earlier in the day? He ran point on the return, and then another sales associate ganged up on me with him, trying to refuse and talk me out of returning the pants. And they were really, really aggressive about it. I went down the list of the problems I had with them, I showed them the stitching, and finally one of the two sales guys tells me, "Look, these are normally $80 pants! You got them for $30, aren't they worth $30?" At this point, I about had it with them and the experience left a bad taste in my mouth. And do keep in mind, I didn't remove one single tag or sticker from these pants, they could have gone back onto the shelf, and despite the stitching issues I found and showed them, they probably did.

At this point though, I responded very forcefully so everyone in the store could hear, "NO, FOR THE QUALITY OF PANTS I'M PAYING FOR AND YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO BE PROVIDING, THESE AREN'T EVEN WORTH THE $30 I PAID FOR THEM. GIVE ME MY MONEY BACK." "But, but." "NO. REFUND, NOW." Another customer in the store walked out without buying anything right after that exchange, though I'm not sure if I had anything to do with that or not. My own wife was rather shocked by how awful I was being treated on returning an unworn pair of pants that had both the receipt and all the merch labels, and how much time it had taken. She had at least a couple pairs of pants in her hands up until that moment, too. After I finally got my refund, I left with a rather sour taste in my mouth. My wife bought nothing, and made sure they saw her abandon her purchase.

It would have been one thing if this happened at some regular shop that just carried the stuff... but it wasn't. This was at a corporate store. These people were direct representatives of 5.11. My wife and I both have served time in the retail salt mines, and are usually quite genteel and forgiving and kind to retail drones, but this actually got under our skins. We agreed to never buy anything from them again.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2018, 07:12:38 PM by Daley »

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Re: Pants! Why must buying tactical pants feel like stepping around landmines?
« Reply #27 on: October 26, 2018, 07:31:18 AM »
Stitching doesn't matter at all to me.  If stitching on something gives way, I pull out some dental floss and re-stitch the spot by hand.  Dental floss stitches will outlast any material I've ever sewn them into . . . backpacks, cycling gear, pants, shirts, sweaters, gloves, etc.

Daley

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Re: Pants! Why must buying tactical pants feel like stepping around landmines?
« Reply #28 on: October 26, 2018, 08:14:23 AM »
Oh, absolutely. Stitching isn't normally a deal killer for me, either... but when you have the stitching actively unravelling on one of the key areas between two panels when they're fresh off the assembly line, it doesn't bode well for the overall quality, and the thinness of the fabric and the unevenness of the overall stitch quality were nothing like any other pair I'd owned from them. They didn't just look cheap with closer inspection, they felt cheap - and given that I just noticed that the color they were selling isn't even offered on the website, and the fabric weights and types listed there didn't seem to match what I saw and felt? I suspect I've got my answer as to why, now. In fact, looking at the pictures closer and remembering the mention of such, there's bar-tack stitching in places in the pictures of these pants where the stitching was actively coming apart on the pair I'd bought, and I wondered at the time why there wasn't any. Hmm... "Special product for sidewalk sale."

The worst part was, I noticed some of that when I tried them on, but I was in a hurry and was trying to be optimistic.

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Re: Pants! Why must buying tactical pants feel like stepping around landmines?
« Reply #29 on: October 26, 2018, 01:38:49 PM »
Daley,

I feel your pain. 

I like to feel that I'm getting value for my money.  Good stitching, quality material, and a company that stands behind its products are the kinds of things that should separate an $80 pair of pants from a $30 pair of pants.  It sounds like 5.11 did what a lot of retailers do these days; special ordered a batch of $30 pants and slapped an inflated $80 price tag on them so they could give people an artificial "deal." 

GuitarStv,

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Re: Pants! Why must buying tactical pants feel like stepping around landmines?
« Reply #30 on: October 26, 2018, 01:53:07 PM »
Stitching doesn't matter at all to me.  If stitching on something gives way, I pull out some dental floss and re-stitch the spot by hand.  Dental floss stitches will outlast any material I've ever sewn them into . . . backpacks, cycling gear, pants, shirts, sweaters, gloves, etc.

I don't mind stitching things when they've had a reasonable amount of honest wear, but I don't like having to do it because it was made poorly to begin with, especially if it was supposed to be a well made item.  And there are places where the stitching really matters.  One example that comes to mind is a motorcycle jacket.  One of the differences between a real motorcycle jacket and a fashion leather jacket is the stitching.  Poor stitching and weak thread in a fashion jacket are likely to cause it to burst at the seams  when you kiss the pavement at high speed.  Not something you want to fix with dental floss after the fact. 

But dental floss, eh?  I usually use upholstery thread, but I may have to give dental floss a try. 

GuitarStv

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Re: Pants! Why must buying tactical pants feel like stepping around landmines?
« Reply #31 on: October 26, 2018, 03:19:29 PM »
I've used fishing line as well, but dental floss is less scratchy.  :P

kpd905

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Re: Pants! Why must buying tactical pants feel like stepping around landmines?
« Reply #32 on: October 26, 2018, 07:57:55 PM »
Anyone else wear Prana Stretch Zion pants?  These are the ones: https://amzn.to/2CECPX7

I usually grab a pair on sale for about $50 and they last for years of hiking and backpacking trips, yard work, and just comfortable lounging around the house.

cheapbarb

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Re: Pants! Why must buying tactical pants feel like stepping around landmines?
« Reply #33 on: October 27, 2018, 12:29:33 PM »
I've had good luck buying clothes and shoes off of a website called Poshmark. If you know exactly what size you need in a certain brand it can be a very cost effective way to stock up. I just checked and they have many pairs of pants from the brands mentioned here. The poshmark business model is heavily oriented towards women, so you fellas are going to feel a bit out of place. But if you can ignore the constant invites to "poshparties" celebrating fall booties, etc. you will find great bargains on barely worn clothes.
The only time that i have had a bad experience with a purchase poshmark refunded my money. I'm a very satisfied customer.

JLee

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Re: Pants! Why must buying tactical pants feel like stepping around landmines?
« Reply #34 on: October 29, 2018, 12:04:46 PM »
Anyone else wear Prana Stretch Zion pants?  These are the ones: https://amzn.to/2CECPX7

I usually grab a pair on sale for about $50 and they last for years of hiking and backpacking trips, yard work, and just comfortable lounging around the house.

I have 3 of those. They were my favorite pants until I found Off the Grid. OTG fits me better.

Alex239

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Re: Pants! Why must buying tactical pants feel like stepping around landmines?
« Reply #35 on: November 01, 2018, 10:24:44 AM »
Have you found some double knee and or double front carhartts yet?  Also someone in here mentioned Propper. I have a couple pairs of those brand pants left over from my transit days (was a light rail operator once upon a time ) those pants were purchased from a professional supply store that caters to Police/LawEnforcement, EMT/Fire/FieldMedical, USPS Mail Carriers, and other types of "Public Facing" work uniforms like bus drivers and light rail operators. They sell the majority of their lines as waist only fit and do all hemming/leg length adjustments for free. Here in Utah the name of the store is "Skaggs Public Safety Uniforms - Salt Lake City"

Goldielocks

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Re: Pants! Why must buying tactical pants feel like stepping around landmines?
« Reply #36 on: November 05, 2018, 10:50:58 AM »
I definitely feel for you, Daley.    Try buying pants that will hold up to construction -- for a woman.   Half the time I end up buying men's pants (dickies preferred) and then I have to belt them in 4 inches at the waist.   Or, I end up with cheaper / heavy jeans from the thrift store, but they don't have the give / flex that I want.  At least men's pants don't fall off me like some guys I know.  My DD had the same problem trying to buy white painters pants for her job last summer.

I wanted to second the technical climbing pants.   The best ones are intended to scrape over rock faces, and have a lot of gusseting at knees and crotch.  Their draw back is the price.  They have new stretch soft shell ones now, but they don't hold up quite as well as what you want, (but are better than other tights for women who demand a lot of stretch).

Next, you can look into high quality hiking / treking pants, from the same sporting companies.  These are often made to look OK for going to a restaurant (if the lights are dim and you have a button down shirt on)... but hold up typical camping conditions.   

Another option -- After a few years, I found a pair of Tilley pants at the thrift store, but 1-2 sizes too large, and had them taken in.  So look on ebay or thrift stores for brands you like / know in your own size or larger.

Daley

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Re: Pants! Why must buying tactical pants feel like stepping around landmines?
« Reply #37 on: November 05, 2018, 01:31:30 PM »
I definitely feel for you, Daley.    Try buying pants that will hold up to construction -- for a woman.

Ouch. It almost sounds like you'd benefit more from a pair of ODUs than I would!

I've looked into climbing pants, but the problems I'm finding in regular pant sizes are being amplified in the sporting goods sector, since the pant size I technically wear at my height and weight wind up falling into the edge of a short, plump, Big & Tall customer despite being close to height-weight proportionate for standing over six foot... and don't you know that short fat people don't climb mountains?

I think the biggest insult to injury I've found thus far was finally getting my hands on some Carhartt pants, and discovering my 30" actual inseam and their definition of 30" inseam seems to include about two more inches than advertised. The only thing worse than being told that a brand is going to put a tall dude in a 28" inseam is being told that you can't even try them on before buying them because they're custom order.

Duluth was similar. The 30" inseam and the fit was fine... except for the knees and kneepads on their pants. They wear like shin guards.

You know, I never did have any body image problems with myself for over four decades until I started actually shopping for pants. Now I feel like a top-heavy circus freak with stumpy legs. No wonder it's been getting so difficult to find used pants for me anymore. *sigh*

Goldielocks

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Re: Pants! Why must buying tactical pants feel like stepping around landmines?
« Reply #38 on: November 05, 2018, 01:53:31 PM »
Not for construction, but for everyday...

https://zozo.com/ca/en

DH received the suit, took the measurements, but has not yet ordered any clothing... So I don't know if I can recommend it yet.

Sailor Sam

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Re: Pants! Why must buying tactical pants feel like stepping around landmines?
« Reply #39 on: November 05, 2018, 02:03:19 PM »
I definitely feel for you, Daley.    Try buying pants that will hold up to construction -- for a woman.

Ouch. It almost sounds like you'd benefit more from a pair of ODUs than I would!

Hey, free pants still available! Free to any good home! You give me a shipping address, and I send you 2 pairs of med waist, regular length ODUs. Seriously, we use these things as backup flotation devices. They are very, very rugged.

BDWW

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Re: Pants! Why must buying tactical pants feel like stepping around landmines?
« Reply #40 on: November 05, 2018, 02:41:58 PM »
I definitely feel for you, Daley.    Try buying pants that will hold up to construction -- for a woman.   


https://redantspants.com/

Goldielocks

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Re: Pants! Why must buying tactical pants feel like stepping around landmines?
« Reply #41 on: November 06, 2018, 12:35:22 AM »
Wow, thanks, pants that come in different fits, too!

Hibernaculum

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Re: Pants! Why must buying tactical pants feel like stepping around landmines?
« Reply #42 on: November 08, 2018, 08:30:59 PM »
Yep, it seems Carhartt pants run weirdly short. I picked up a pair at a thrift store at some point a while back, and they seemed to fit pretty well and have decent pockets and construction. I ordered 4 pair from Amazon as part of the Amazon prime "wardrobe" deal where you get to try on clothing and then send back what doesn't fit, and then only pay for what you keep. There were three fit styles, and only the "loose original fit", the loosest one, was suitably loose in the thighs for me (I have big thighs). The 30 inch length was on the edge of too long for me, too. Usually, I wear 31. They must run short. Next pair I buy, I'll go for the 29. That being said, I like them. Dressier than cargo pants, and yet they have a handy cell phone pocket on the thigh.

I definitely feel for you, Daley.    Try buying pants that will hold up to construction -- for a woman.

Ouch. It almost sounds like you'd benefit more from a pair of ODUs than I would!

I've looked into climbing pants, but the problems I'm finding in regular pant sizes are being amplified in the sporting goods sector, since the pant size I technically wear at my height and weight wind up falling into the edge of a short, plump, Big & Tall customer despite being close to height-weight proportionate for standing over six foot... and don't you know that short fat people don't climb mountains?

I think the biggest insult to injury I've found thus far was finally getting my hands on some Carhartt pants, and discovering my 30" actual inseam and their definition of 30" inseam seems to include about two more inches than advertised. The only thing worse than being told that a brand is going to put a tall dude in a 28" inseam is being told that you can't even try them on before buying them because they're custom order.

Duluth was similar. The 30" inseam and the fit was fine... except for the knees and kneepads on their pants. They wear like shin guards.

You know, I never did have any body image problems with myself for over four decades until I started actually shopping for pants. Now I feel like a top-heavy circus freak with stumpy legs. No wonder it's been getting so difficult to find used pants for me anymore. *sigh*

Rasputin

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Re: Pants! Why must buying tactical pants feel like stepping around landmines?
« Reply #43 on: November 29, 2018, 11:23:04 AM »
Iím a huge fan of Tru-Spec 24/7 BDUs. Therefore, Iíd trust anything they make. Their quality is outstanding and their customer vice is first class. I had an issue with an item I bought and they replaced it without asking how long I owned the garment, etc.

Daley

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Re: Pants! Why must buying tactical pants feel like stepping around landmines?
« Reply #44 on: November 29, 2018, 08:28:32 PM »
Iím a huge fan of Tru-Spec 24/7 BDUs. Therefore, Iíd trust anything they make. Their quality is outstanding and their customer vice is first class. I had an issue with an item I bought and they replaced it without asking how long I owned the garment, etc.

I'm glad you like their pants, but I am personally very uncomfortable doing business with anyone who so actively supports the NRA and the "prepper" culture. Tru-Spec inspired me to start this thread, because it was their website and R. Lee Ermey yelling at me that was the straw that broke me on trying to find tac pants in the first place. I need to walk my values as best as possible, so ethics matter in what I do, as does the sanctity of life, so I try to shop with the hope of minimizing choices that may betray those values. After all, those who live by the sword, die by the sword.



Update for anyone curious: I broke down and took a chance on Duluth's Flex Firehose pants since I was able to get them for nearly half off, but only picked up a couple pair. I'd tried on the regular Firehose pants, but the kneepad pockets were just a hair too low on my legs, but the flex were positioned just high enough to still be useful. They've not been too shabby, thus far, and today was their first grueling workout with some "light" construction work. Eight hours of rough and dusty, and they served well. I'll have to see how well they hold up long term.

In other news, today I learned how to install an entry door.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2018, 08:31:18 PM by Daley »

Basenji

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Re: Pants! Why must buying tactical pants feel like stepping around landmines?
« Reply #45 on: November 29, 2018, 10:00:15 PM »
Hmph, I got caught up in Sailor Sam's USCG ODU offer. Anti-climactic end to this story, would like some video of a pair of work gloves snapping on the thighs of the Flex Firehose pants (with a spray of dust). Loyal dog panting alongside as you walk back to the house for a cold lemonade.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2018, 10:25:04 PM by Basenji »

Joel

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Re: Pants! Why must buying tactical pants feel like stepping around landmines?
« Reply #46 on: November 29, 2018, 11:06:06 PM »
I just recently got a pair of KUIUís attack pants. High quality product designed for hunters but recently becoming available in solid colors. Could be worth considering. Direct to consumer, so the pricing isnít jacked up to cover retail markup either.

Daley

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Re: Pants! Why must buying tactical pants feel like stepping around landmines?
« Reply #47 on: November 30, 2018, 07:00:12 AM »
Hmph, I got caught up in Sailor Sam's USCG ODU offer. Anti-climactic end to this story, would like some video of a pair of work gloves snapping on the thighs of the Flex Firehose pants (with a spray of dust). Loyal dog panting alongside as you walk back to the house for a cold lemonade.

Tell me about it. Honestly, I'm still not sure I've found the pants, but I needed something and the timing was right. The best pocket(s) on the flex firehose to stick my trusty-rusty-Lumia is on my lower outer thigh right above my knee, which seems like an unwise location to keep a smartphone. It bangs around and digs when I kneel, and it seems like it's in a vulnerable location, so I just go out of pocket when working... but I suspect this isn't a problem with people who don't have what are apparently "freaky leg stumps" by the fashion industry standard. After all, these are the same pants that have the knee pads wearing almost like shin guards for me. This said, I do like their tool strap belt loops. I was able to pick up their knee pads and their tool belt pouches (things I needed anyway) for under $20 for everything, and having a hammer loop affixed to the pants instead of a tool belt is surprisingly more comfortable. There are qualities I like about 'em, and there are qualities I do not. These were also the pants I mentioned of Duluth's that had me concerned about longer-term durability. I honestly liked the material of the regular firehose better, but... shin guards, so what're you gonna do?

What I'm saying is, I'm still looking, but hedging my bets until I do find them. Meanwhile, I have pants that almost work, but at least have a lifetime warranty attached to them and got them for nearly half-off to boot.

I also picked up a pair of their ballroom khakis for giggles as the price was right. Have not actually worn those yet. Their thermal henleys, however? I'm sold. Nicer than the ones I found down at Tractor Supply or Cabela's, and given Duluth's apparent "war on plumber's butt", they're still long enough to stay tucked without needing big and tall! It feels a bit like the trappings of vanity sizing, but I felt surprisingly normal being able to buy a regular large shirt and just have it fit.

As for the requested video? The pants are already in the wash, and the dustiest part of the job was yesterday. Will non-dusty pants slapped by work gloves work? There is no dog or lemonade either, but there is a cat and apple cider.



I just recently got a pair of KUIUís attack pants. High quality product designed for hunters but recently becoming available in solid colors. Could be worth considering. Direct to consumer, so the pricing isnít jacked up to cover retail markup either.

Interesting.

*reads website and looks over features* Okay, good, good... that's a nifty feature. The reviews are glowing. Wait, articulated knees paired only with a 34" inseam, but can be let out up to 35.5"? *headdesk*
« Last Edit: November 30, 2018, 07:02:26 AM by Daley »

Basenji

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Re: Pants! Why must buying tactical pants feel like stepping around landmines?
« Reply #48 on: November 30, 2018, 08:15:50 AM »
As for the requested video? The pants are already in the wash, and the dustiest part of the job was yesterday. Will non-dusty pants slapped by work gloves work? There is no dog or lemonade either, but there is a cat and apple cider.


The cat and tough pants reminds me of this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pk7yqlTMvp8

Dicey

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Re: Pants! Why must buying tactical pants feel like stepping around landmines?
« Reply #49 on: December 15, 2018, 09:35:02 AM »
Whew! Just read a lot about pants. Why is @Daley not responding to @Sailor Sam's incredibly generous offer? Did I miss something?