Author Topic: LED vs CFL vs Incandescent  (Read 5126 times)

blinx7

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LED vs CFL vs Incandescent
« on: January 28, 2018, 12:06:27 PM »

I have a mix of all three types of lights in my house.  I know the incandescents need to go, and I've gotten rid of most of them (I used this (https://www.amazon.com/Lighting-Science-FG-02263-Night-Household/dp/B018YIK1X0 in the bedrooms so we could get warm light but still use LEDs).

Is it cost / environmentally efficient to just use up the old CFLs, or should I ditch those too, even if it means going out and buying new LEDs?

Also, any recommendations on what types of LEDs to get and where to shop for deals?

ender

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Re: LED vs CFL vs Incandescent
« Reply #1 on: January 28, 2018, 12:20:44 PM »
check to see if your local electric offers LED rebates. A lot do.

For me after having mostly LEDs I cant stand the slow "startup" time CFLs have so I swapped out a bunch of CFLs with LEDs.

Some places this won't matter as much, I guess.

Car Jack

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Re: LED vs CFL vs Incandescent
« Reply #2 on: January 28, 2018, 12:42:14 PM »
The CFLs are probably more efficient than LEDs but of course, they're really white, don't handle cold well and do wear out besides the start up.

I've got all types in my house and simply rotate as lamps fail.  The garage and basement get all the CFLs at this point.  Incandescent are still in some of the custom fixtures that I have but LEDs are beginning to be available for even these.

I never throw any working lamp out unless it no longer works.

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Re: LED vs CFL vs Incandescent
« Reply #3 on: January 28, 2018, 01:11:19 PM »
The CFLs are probably more efficient than LEDs
....

No, they are not.

LED's are most efficient, followed by CFL and last by incandescents.

Power usage of a light is measured in Watts. For equivalent light, a 100 watt incandescent bulb is the same as a 24 watt CFL or a 10 watt LED bulb.

blinx7

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Re: LED vs CFL vs Incandescent
« Reply #4 on: January 28, 2018, 05:25:03 PM »
Ok, I come bearing knowledge from my Costco trip. 

I bought six 750 lumen warm light LED flood lights for $19.99.    The back of the box tells me:

LED = 8.3 Watts. 
CFL = 15 Watts. 
Incandescent = 65 Watts. 

(Btw, halogen efficiency is between CFL and incandescent, but they are closer to incandescent I think). 

Estimated energy cost is $1.00 a year per bulb (possibly high because I don't have these lights on three hours a day, but good enough).  So a CFL would cost a little under $2.00 a year and an incandescent would cost $7.83 a year.  Swapping out the incandescents was, of course, a no brainer and could pay for itself in under a year.   

At a little less than $3.50 a bulb, replacing a CFL with one of these would pay for itself in a little less than four years if the estimated usage is accurate.  This is a pretty good return, particularly because it is risk free.  The payoff timeline would be longer without the sweet Costco pricing or if the bulbs are rarely used anyways or if you made a special car trip and used gas to go out and buy them. 

The moral I got from this is:

  • Replace all incandescents, even if you need to buy a fancypants expensive LED to get the same type of light or fit a certain fixture.
  • Replace CFLs in heavily used locations if you can get the LEDs at a decent price.
  • If the CFLs are in a location you don't use that much (e.g., attic), it's no big deal to leave them until they burn out unless you happen to have a big pile of unused LEDs hanging around the house anyways.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2018, 05:31:26 PM by blinx7 »

nereo

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Re: LED vs CFL vs Incandescent
« Reply #5 on: January 29, 2018, 06:12:05 AM »
blinx7 - your latest assessment seems pretty spot on.  LEDs will win out against both types over the long run, hands down. CLFs have poor 'full-brightness' times and should be disposed of properly (not in your basic trash), plus I've never liked the light they emit as much as LEDs.

Also, don't forget the longevity of the bulbs.  LEDs will last you ~20 years with normal use (3 hrs/day).  CLFs about 3-5 years, incandesent bulbs roughly 18 months. That alone severely shifts the cost-analysis even further to LEDs.

Keep an eye out for sales on LEDs - Home Depot in my area sometimes marks them down to ~$1/bulb; sometimes in conjunction with my local utility. 

regarding brands I really like CREE and Philips.  I've tried a few off-brand internet specials from Asia with mixed results (mostly for non A-19 base bulbs that needed a wider beam pattern than is typical).  They work just great but seem to have higher failure rates (poor soldering seems to be the culprit).  Still, at $2/bulb I'd buy them again if/when I had to replace a bunch of bulbs at once (my HD sells the G-10 base bulbs I need for $4 each, and I had to replace about 20 of them).

Finally, there's no reason to dispose of good CFLs just because you replace them with LEDs.  Donate them to your school/library, use htem to replace all incandesnet bulbs or keep a couple on hand to replace other CFLs.

MasterStache

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Re: LED vs CFL vs Incandescent
« Reply #6 on: January 31, 2018, 06:34:07 AM »
I'll second the longevity of LED's being a great feature. I still have several PAR 30 LEDs I purchased for about $30/bulb way back in probably 2010/2011 going strong. Looking back it's hard to believe I paid that much per bulb but I've had no issues with them whatsoever.

katsiki

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Re: LED vs CFL vs Incandescent
« Reply #7 on: January 31, 2018, 06:46:49 AM »
Keep an eye out for sales on LEDs - Home Depot in my area sometimes marks them down to ~$1/bulb; sometimes in conjunction with my local utility. 

+1  I buy up a ton when they go on sale.  I replace as they die.  I can't throw out a working bulb even if the new one is more efficient.

acroy

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Re: LED vs CFL vs Incandescent
« Reply #8 on: January 31, 2018, 06:54:45 AM »
It literally only makes sense to replace them if it makes sense to replace them....

I still have quite a number of 75w incandescent can lights on dimmers but they are used minutes/week. So it would takes many many years to pay back the $6 replacement LED bulb + $xx dimmer switch.

We also have a couple very bright 40W as I recall CFLs (150w 'equivalent') in the MB sconces. They are the fast turn on type so no annoying waiting. 150w equivalent replacement LEDs are quite expensive so again the pay-back does not make sense. We'll use them till they die, I die, or we sell the house.

Look at how much you actually use various lights and make an informed choice. Good luck!

YttriumNitrate

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Re: LED vs CFL vs Incandescent
« Reply #9 on: January 31, 2018, 09:08:45 AM »
My toddler has thing for light bulbs, so I gave him two cheap (~$1 a bulb) 60 watt equivalent LED bulbs to play with about a year ago. He treated them as you would expect a toddler, meaning they were thrown, stomped, and may have even gone in bath tub with him once or twice. This past weekend, one of my hallway lights fully burned out (two CFL bulbs), and I was out of replacement LEDs so I took my son's toys and screwed them into the sockets. Amazingly, both LED bulbs worked perfectly after a year of hard abuse.

The durability of LEDs compared to other bulbs is impressive.

Also, it seems that my CFLs always burned out far sooner than their advertised life expectancy.

GuitarStv

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Re: LED vs CFL vs Incandescent
« Reply #10 on: January 31, 2018, 09:50:27 AM »
LEDs have a longer shelf life than CFLs, are more efficient, seem to work better in the cold, turn on faster, and you don't have to worry about cleaning up mercury if you break one.

Incandescent lights offer no benefits at all, and it's surprising to me that people still choose to use them.

ketchup

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Re: LED vs CFL vs Incandescent
« Reply #11 on: January 31, 2018, 10:00:40 AM »
It literally only makes sense to replace them if it makes sense to replace them....

I still have quite a number of 75w incandescent can lights on dimmers but they are used minutes/week. So it would takes many many years to pay back the $6 replacement LED bulb + $xx dimmer switch.

We also have a couple very bright 40W as I recall CFLs (150w 'equivalent') in the MB sconces. They are the fast turn on type so no annoying waiting. 150w equivalent replacement LEDs are quite expensive so again the pay-back does not make sense. We'll use them till they die, I die, or we sell the house.

Look at how much you actually use various lights and make an informed choice. Good luck!
Definitely keep this sort of thing in mind.  I have a couple incandescent bulbs left in a similar sort of role (closet and "spare" bedroom) where the monthly energy usage can be expressed in double-digit watt-hours, so it truly makes no sense to replace them with LED (until they die, of course).

However, I have a near-24/7-use light in our kitchen that used to be a 15W fluorescent and I just replaced with a 7W LED that will pay for itself within a year.  I only replaced it when the fluorescent bulb quit, but I really should have done it sooner.

Other than that, I have probably about a 50/50 CFL/LED split in use, and still a bunch of spares of each.  The CFLs generally get replaced with LED as they die.  I probably won't be actually buying any bulbs for a while.

jpdx

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Re: LED vs CFL vs Incandescent
« Reply #12 on: January 31, 2018, 11:31:07 AM »
LEDs are fantastic.

Color temperature is an important part of choosing a light bulb. Most people will be happy with LED bulbs that are a close match to a traditional incandescent bulb. So choose a bulbs that is close to 2700K (tungsten), not 5000K (daylight). The lower the number, the warmer the color, the higher the number, the bluer the color. Manufacturers often use terms like "soft white" which are meaningless. Instead, look at the Lighting Facts label and choose your bulb based on Kelvin (K).

GuitarStv

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Re: LED vs CFL vs Incandescent
« Reply #13 on: January 31, 2018, 11:49:44 AM »
I really wish that there was a standardized simple nomenclature for choosing bulbs.  Something like:

Normal light bulb - little harsh - creepy horror movie parking lot where you're gonna get stabbed

Telling people that a bulb is 2900K is not really useful information for most . . . and then they hate LED/CFLs because they look so awful when they choose the wrong colour.

ketchup

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Re: LED vs CFL vs Incandescent
« Reply #14 on: January 31, 2018, 12:14:27 PM »
I really wish that there was a standardized simple nomenclature for choosing bulbs.  Something like:

Normal light bulb - little harsh - creepy horror movie parking lot where you're gonna get stabbed

Telling people that a bulb is 2900K is not really useful information for most . . . and then they hate LED/CFLs because they look so awful when they choose the wrong colour.
Absolutely.  I'm still working my way through some old CFL bulbs I bought years ago without realizing what "daylight" meant.  GF can't stand how they look in certain rooms (can't blame her; she's a photographer and cares about lighting/color), so they're slowly being consumed by the lights in our laundry room, back patio, and garage.

jpdx

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Re: LED vs CFL vs Incandescent
« Reply #15 on: February 01, 2018, 08:12:42 PM »
I really wish that there was a standardized simple nomenclature for choosing bulbs.

The traditional terms are "tungsten" and "daylight," but these words can be subjective. It's a bit like saying the weather is  "warm" or "cold" verses giving a specific temperature.

Use the Kelvin value, it's not that hard!

GuitarStv

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Re: LED vs CFL vs Incandescent
« Reply #16 on: February 02, 2018, 05:41:59 AM »
I really wish that there was a standardized simple nomenclature for choosing bulbs.

The traditional terms are "tungsten" and "daylight," but these words can be subjective. It's a bit like saying the weather is  "warm" or "cold" verses giving a specific temperature.

Use the Kelvin value, it's not that hard!

Because modern bulbs last so long, I buy them maybe once or twice in a ten year period.  The kelvin value of the light colour I prefer just isn't something I'm ever likely to use often enough to easily remember.

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Re: LED vs CFL vs Incandescent
« Reply #17 on: February 02, 2018, 07:57:31 AM »
LED bulbs are so cheap these days. I bought a couple boxes of them when we moved into our new house, which was still inexplicably filled with incandescents. We put the LED lights into all of the most-used fixtures, and moved any CFLs into the lesser-used sockets. I don't care how little a light bulb "supposedly" gets used. I live in a house with 3 (soon to be 4) kids, and any given lightswitch is likely to be left on for hours (sometimes days) at a time by a forgetful kindergartener.

Anon in Alaska

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Re: LED vs CFL vs Incandescent
« Reply #18 on: February 03, 2018, 06:52:17 AM »
I'd be cautious in replacing your 150 watt or equivalent bulbs (if any) with LED bulbs. I'm not sure the technology is quite there yet. I paid over $20 for a single 150 watt equivalent LED bulb (I like a bright light for reading) last year. It died in a month, just after I could have returned it.

It does look as if prices are down a bit since last year and are now more in the $10 to $15 range per bulb if you buy a multi-pack. That's still too expensive if they don't last.

For anything smaller, you want LED's.

Michael in ABQ

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Re: LED vs CFL vs Incandescent
« Reply #19 on: February 12, 2018, 05:48:10 AM »
We've bought a few of the 6-packs of LED 60w bulbs from Costco (made by Feit Electric) as they're only about $1-1.50 per bulb after instant rebate from our local utility. Overall I haven't noticed much color difference from the CFLs or incandescents they replaced. I've also been less than impressed by their longevity. I've replaced at least three LED bulbs that have either burned out completely or started to flicker randomly. Two of them have been in an overhead light fixture we leave on at night as basically a large night light for the kids in case they have to get up. So it probably runs 7-8 hours per day instead of the standard 3 hours, but still that's only a few thousand hours of use before they've gone out. I'll still only be buying LED lights going forward but I am a bit disappointed by these ones.

nereo

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Re: LED vs CFL vs Incandescent
« Reply #20 on: February 12, 2018, 06:07:19 AM »
We've bought a few of the 6-packs of LED 60w bulbs from Costco (made by Feit Electric) as they're only about $1-1.50 per bulb after instant rebate from our local utility. Overall I haven't noticed much color difference from the CFLs or incandescents they replaced. I've also been less than impressed by their longevity. I've replaced at least three LED bulbs that have either burned out completely or started to flicker randomly. Two of them have been in an overhead light fixture we leave on at night as basically a large night light for the kids in case they have to get up. So it probably runs 7-8 hours per day instead of the standard 3 hours, but still that's only a few thousand hours of use before they've gone out. I'll still only be buying LED lights going forward but I am a bit disappointed by these ones.
That definitely shouldnít happen. Did you return the bulbs to CostCo? Theyíll replace or refund you - plus it helps keep standards high for everyone else.

As for the Cree and Phillups bulbs Iíve installed... 4+ years for most and not a single one has failed yet, even in high-use areas.  Figure they have > half their lifespan left according to their rating... weíll see if they make it.

GuitarStv

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Re: LED vs CFL vs Incandescent
« Reply #21 on: February 12, 2018, 07:34:25 AM »
We've bought a few of the 6-packs of LED 60w bulbs from Costco (made by Feit Electric) as they're only about $1-1.50 per bulb after instant rebate from our local utility. Overall I haven't noticed much color difference from the CFLs or incandescents they replaced. I've also been less than impressed by their longevity. I've replaced at least three LED bulbs that have either burned out completely or started to flicker randomly. Two of them have been in an overhead light fixture we leave on at night as basically a large night light for the kids in case they have to get up. So it probably runs 7-8 hours per day instead of the standard 3 hours, but still that's only a few thousand hours of use before they've gone out. I'll still only be buying LED lights going forward but I am a bit disappointed by these ones.
That definitely shouldnít happen. Did you return the bulbs to CostCo? Theyíll replace or refund you - plus it helps keep standards high for everyone else.

As for the Cree and Phillups bulbs Iíve installed... 4+ years for most and not a single one has failed yet, even in high-use areas.  Figure they have > half their lifespan left according to their rating... weíll see if they make it.

The Phillips LED bulbs that I've got (about a 18 or 20) have been in regular use for more than six years without any problem.  Based on our usage, the ones most commonly turned on should last another twenty odd years . . . but we'll see about that.  So far so good though.

Clean Shaven

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Re: LED vs CFL vs Incandescent
« Reply #22 on: February 12, 2018, 07:42:15 AM »
Are there LEDs that will withstand vibration - specifically, in a garage door opener light? That's about the only place I still use incandescent, since there are vibration resistant incandescent bulbs made for this, and they last a lot longer than normal incandescents there.

I'm still working through a small stockpile of CFLs, but not buying new ones. Going to LEDs everywhere, eventually.

CowboyAndIndian

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Re: LED vs CFL vs Incandescent
« Reply #23 on: February 12, 2018, 08:54:33 AM »
Are there LEDs that will withstand vibration - specifically, in a garage door opener light? That's about the only place I still use incandescent, since there are vibration resistant incandescent bulbs made for this, and they last a lot longer than normal incandescents there.

I'm still working through a small stockpile of CFLs, but not buying new ones. Going to LEDs everywhere, eventually.

LED's do not have a filament like incandescents and filaments are the main cause of vibration failure.

LED's are solid state and should be better at vibration than incandescent.

This is what google-fu shows up https://www.etrailer.com/question-138961.html

Dicey

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Re: LED vs CFL vs Incandescent
« Reply #24 on: February 12, 2018, 09:14:33 AM »
When we bought our clown house nearly five years ago, we didn't pay much attention to the lighting (hot market + bidding war + it's three blocks from DH's work). We were shocked when we got our first utility bill. WTF? We set out to count, then replace all the bulbs in cans. Gulp. 120 can (pot) lights, most on dimmers.  At the time, dimmable LEDs were not readily available and they were damn expensive. We spent $1200 at Home Depot to replace them all. Then we were thrilled/horrified to watch the prices plummet. Still worth it in the long run. The only fixture we couldn't outfit with LEDs was in the dining room. The bulbs were all too tall and projected the light upward. After many tries, we settled for halogen until we finally found bulbs that worked just last year. Our bill went down again 'cause we use that fixture every day and it has nine bulbs.

Since the prices have dropped so much, we have put them in our rentals as we rehab them. We buy the Costco can lights and the new flourescent-type bulbs for the shop lights in the garage.

The point of sharing this tale is to say that I consistently see them at the Dollar Store these days. For $1.00, we've replaced everything without a second thought.

We offered all the old bulbs free on Next Door and they were gone the same day.

Finally, they do burn out prematurely. We kept our Home Depot receipt and exchange them when this happens. IIRC, the brand is Felt, which DH tells me is pronounced "feet", which I think is funny.

nereo

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Re: LED vs CFL vs Incandescent
« Reply #25 on: February 12, 2018, 09:23:29 AM »
When we bought our clown house nearly five years ago, we didn't pay much attention to the lighting (hot market + bidding war + it's three blocks from DH's work). We were shocked when we got our first utility bill. WTF? We set out to count, then replace all the bulbs in cans. Gulp. 120 can (pot) lights, most on dimmers.  At the time, dimmable LEDs were not readily available and they were damn expensive. We spent $1200 at Home Depot to replace them all. ...
Wow.  120 can lights.  That's impressive.  When we bought our 1050 sqft apartment it had 18 x G10 type bulbs in fixtures, plus a half-dozen or so traditional A9 types in closets and things. As fortune would have it, our utility (HydroQuebec) ran a promo where you could buy the bulbs for $1 each, limit 5.  I bought 5, my SO bought 5, my dad bought 5 and my renter at the time bought 5.

What amazes me is that we could leave all of these on, lighting up every room in the apartment, and it uses as much energy as a single 100w incandescent. Amazing.  Most of the time we're using 20w or less to light up whatever room we are using.

Clean Shaven

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Re: LED vs CFL vs Incandescent
« Reply #26 on: February 12, 2018, 11:26:52 AM »
Are there LEDs that will withstand vibration - specifically, in a garage door opener light? That's about the only place I still use incandescent, since there are vibration resistant incandescent bulbs made for this, and they last a lot longer than normal incandescents there.

I'm still working through a small stockpile of CFLs, but not buying new ones. Going to LEDs everywhere, eventually.

LED's do not have a filament like incandescents and filaments are the main cause of vibration failure.

LED's are solid state and should be better at vibration than incandescent.

This is what google-fu shows up https://www.etrailer.com/question-138961.html

Thanks!

bacchi

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Re: LED vs CFL vs Incandescent
« Reply #27 on: February 12, 2018, 12:36:34 PM »
What amazes me is that we could leave all of these on, lighting up every room in the apartment, and it uses as much energy as a single 100w incandescent. Amazing.  Most of the time we're using 20w or less to light up whatever room we are using.

LEDs are f'ing cool. They have their own variation of Moore's Law.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light-emitting_diode#/media/File:Haitz_law.svg

Remember the good ol' days when people had all this consternation about getting rid of incandescents? I wonder if the hoarders regret it. "You'll pry my incandescent bulb out of my cold, dead, hands!"

nereo

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Re: LED vs CFL vs Incandescent
« Reply #28 on: February 12, 2018, 03:08:29 PM »

Remember the good ol' days when people had all this consternation about getting rid of incandescents? I wonder if the hoarders regret it. "You'll pry my incandescent bulb out of my cold, dead, hands!"
yeah, I remember getting lots of spam with titles like "Stock up on 100w bulbs before they are banned forever!!"
I'm sure some people's hatred of regulation caused them to spurn LEDs regardless of the personal benefits. I've got family members who fit into this camp.

ketchup

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Re: LED vs CFL vs Incandescent
« Reply #29 on: February 12, 2018, 03:36:24 PM »

Remember the good ol' days when people had all this consternation about getting rid of incandescents? I wonder if the hoarders regret it. "You'll pry my incandescent bulb out of my cold, dead, hands!"
yeah, I remember getting lots of spam with titles like "Stock up on 100w bulbs before they are banned forever!!"
I'm sure some people's hatred of regulation caused them to spurn LEDs regardless of the personal benefits. I've got family members who fit into this camp.
My dad was briefly in this camp... an otherwise rational frugal man, I believe he was misinformed about color temperature availability and thought "Daylight" LED/CFL bulbs were the only kind that existed.  An optometrist by trade and photographer by hobby, he cares about light.

dycker1978

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Re: LED vs CFL vs Incandescent
« Reply #30 on: February 12, 2018, 04:07:03 PM »
I was at our local Super store yesterday for groceries, they had LED bulbs on blow out.  $0.44 for a pack of two limit 4 packs.  I have been back enough to replace every light in my house. 

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Re: LED vs CFL vs Incandescent
« Reply #31 on: February 12, 2018, 06:58:31 PM »
For some people, I think the light of incandescent bulbs is more comfortable and healthy to be in than fluorescent, and possibly LED. Iím thinking migraine-prone or vestibular issues, could be others. So I wouldnít go crazy replacing all incandescents right away unless one is sure it will be okay for all household members.

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Re: LED vs CFL vs Incandescent
« Reply #32 on: February 12, 2018, 07:07:05 PM »
I can't stand CFLs, so it was a no brainer to get rid of mine with decent LEDs running only $1 at costco (including rebate) these days.

It's not environmentally friendly to throw away or recycle CFLs, but my deep hatred for them outweighs my love for the environment.  I'm pretty sure you can take them to any Home Depot and put them in a bin near the front.  They claim to recycle them, or at least dispose of them without releasing all the mercury, but who really knows?

PS I never bought the damn CFLs, they came with the house.  One of my neighbors moved in a few years ago and their front door has a legit sky-blue CFL that they still haven't replaced.  WHHY

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Re: LED vs CFL vs Incandescent
« Reply #33 on: February 13, 2018, 08:32:41 AM »

Remember the good ol' days when people had all this consternation about getting rid of incandescents? I wonder if the hoarders regret it. "You'll pry my incandescent bulb out of my cold, dead, hands!"
yeah, I remember getting lots of spam with titles like "Stock up on 100w bulbs before they are banned forever!!"
I'm sure some people's hatred of regulation caused them to spurn LEDs regardless of the personal benefits. I've got family members who fit into this camp.
My dad was briefly in this camp... an otherwise rational frugal man, I believe he was misinformed about color temperature availability and thought "Daylight" LED/CFL bulbs were the only kind that existed.  An optometrist by trade and photographer by hobby, he cares about light.

Yet . . . somehow he didn't care enough to inform himself?  :P

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Re: LED vs CFL vs Incandescent
« Reply #34 on: February 13, 2018, 08:33:53 AM »

Remember the good ol' days when people had all this consternation about getting rid of incandescents? I wonder if the hoarders regret it. "You'll pry my incandescent bulb out of my cold, dead, hands!"
yeah, I remember getting lots of spam with titles like "Stock up on 100w bulbs before they are banned forever!!"
I'm sure some people's hatred of regulation caused them to spurn LEDs regardless of the personal benefits. I've got family members who fit into this camp.
My dad was briefly in this camp... an otherwise rational frugal man, I believe he was misinformed about color temperature availability and thought "Daylight" LED/CFL bulbs were the only kind that existed.  An optometrist by trade and photographer by hobby, he cares about light.

Yet . . . somehow he didn't care enough to inform himself?  :P
I said briefly. :P He's since figured everything out.

dragoncar

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Re: LED vs CFL vs Incandescent
« Reply #35 on: February 13, 2018, 01:28:25 PM »

Remember the good ol' days when people had all this consternation about getting rid of incandescents? I wonder if the hoarders regret it. "You'll pry my incandescent bulb out of my cold, dead, hands!"
yeah, I remember getting lots of spam with titles like "Stock up on 100w bulbs before they are banned forever!!"
I'm sure some people's hatred of regulation caused them to spurn LEDs regardless of the personal benefits. I've got family members who fit into this camp.

To be fair, cheap LEDs with high CRI, 100w equivalent output, and decent dimming capability didnít exist at that time. 

They still hum more when dimming which bugs me, and yes Iíve tried various dimmers.  Itís a crapshoot whether your bulbs and dimmers are work well together

Prairie Stash

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Re: LED vs CFL vs Incandescent
« Reply #36 on: February 16, 2018, 02:07:12 PM »
I was at our local Super store yesterday for groceries, they had LED bulbs on blow out.  $0.44 for a pack of two limit 4 packs.  I have been back enough to replace every light in my house.
How many times did you go through the line? I've gone to the same cashier within 5 minutes whenever they put limits on.

dycker1978

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Re: LED vs CFL vs Incandescent
« Reply #37 on: February 16, 2018, 02:10:33 PM »
I was at our local Super store yesterday for groceries, they had LED bulbs on blow out.  $0.44 for a pack of two limit 4 packs.  I have been back enough to replace every light in my house.
How many times did you go through the line? I've gone to the same cashier within 5 minutes whenever they put limits on.
There were two of us, so we hit the line 3 times each.

And you are correct, the cashiers don't care, and the computers are what applies the discount.

Dicey

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Re: LED vs CFL vs Incandescent
« Reply #38 on: February 17, 2018, 08:38:32 AM »
I can't stand CFLs, so it was a no brainer to get rid of mine with decent LEDs running only $1 at costco (including rebate) these days.
<snip>
One of my neighbors moved in a few years ago and their front door has a legit sky-blue CFL that they still haven't replaced.  WHHY
Could you surreptitiously replace it for them? If it would only cost you a buck, it might be totally worth it. Chances are they wouldn't even notice. Or, if you waited and pulled this maneuver when they were on vacation, you could claim it burned out and you just replaced it with whatever you had on hand for safety's sake.

Travis

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Re: LED vs CFL vs Incandescent
« Reply #39 on: February 17, 2018, 09:34:21 AM »
I practically shouted to the heavens when I discovered the now make LEDs in that candle-shaped form for smaller lights.  We have a chandelier in the dining room that lights both that room and the living room and is on the most in our house.  Every light type in my house now has an LED equivalent.  I still have a CFL in my garage attached to the door opener, but other than that I'm now LED-pure. 

freya

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Re: LED vs CFL vs Incandescent
« Reply #40 on: March 03, 2018, 10:08:52 AM »
I have most of my light bulbs on LED, but I couldn't replace all of them because I kept getting flickering in some fixtures.  Anybody know what might cause that?  Definitely the problem improved when I bought better quality LEDs, but a couple of fixtures are still flickering.

I'm in a 100 year old building with a patchwork of wiring from the 1920s, 1950s, and recent and a mind-boggling four fuseboxes, so I'm aware my place is an electrical nightmare.

I am trying to convince my coop board to swap some of the hallway, vestibule, and basement lights for motion sensor LEDs.  There are CFLs there now, some on timers and some on 24/7.  Anyone have experience with high lumens, indoor motion sensor LEDs?


nick663

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Re: LED vs CFL vs Incandescent
« Reply #41 on: March 03, 2018, 11:42:11 AM »
It literally only makes sense to replace them if it makes sense to replace them....

I still have quite a number of 75w incandescent can lights on dimmers but they are used minutes/week. So it would takes many many years to pay back the $6 replacement LED bulb + $xx dimmer switch.

We also have a couple very bright 40W as I recall CFLs (150w 'equivalent') in the MB sconces. They are the fast turn on type so no annoying waiting. 150w equivalent replacement LEDs are quite expensive so again the pay-back does not make sense. We'll use them till they die, I die, or we sell the house.

Look at how much you actually use various lights and make an informed choice. Good luck!
Definitely keep this sort of thing in mind.  I have a couple incandescent bulbs left in a similar sort of role (closet and "spare" bedroom) where the monthly energy usage can be expressed in double-digit watt-hours, so it truly makes no sense to replace them with LED (until they die, of course).
I used to think similarly but after a closet light got left on for 12+ hours one too many times I folded and went LED everywhere.  At the end of the day, an incandescent is going to cost you $__ over it's lifetime and an LED is going to cost less.  The ROI may not be great but it will be a cost save eventually.

dragoncar

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Re: LED vs CFL vs Incandescent
« Reply #42 on: March 03, 2018, 02:15:38 PM »
I have most of my light bulbs on LED, but I couldn't replace all of them because I kept getting flickering in some fixtures.  Anybody know what might cause that?  Definitely the problem improved when I bought better quality LEDs, but a couple of fixtures are still flickering.

I'm in a 100 year old building with a patchwork of wiring from the 1920s, 1950s, and recent and a mind-boggling four fuseboxes, so I'm aware my place is an electrical nightmare.

I am trying to convince my coop board to swap some of the hallway, vestibule, and basement lights for motion sensor LEDs.  There are CFLs there now, some on timers and some on 24/7.  Anyone have experience with high lumens, indoor motion sensor LEDs?

Flickering may be caused by a dimmer that is not designed to handle the very light load of LED bulbs.  You can replace the dimmer with a better one made for LED dimming. 

Also some LED bulbs are not dimmable and will flicker if dimmed.  Even some that claim to be dimmable aren't very good at it.

In my experience, dimming on one switch can also cause fluctuations on other switches/circuits in the house.  Iíve started getting more flickering when the fridge or other compressors kick on.  This would probably have occurred with incandescent, of course, not sure if itís happeningg more or a bulb is starting to fail

Unfortunately with led a single bulb with a failing rectifier can mess with other bulbs in the same circuit.  Iíve got a cfl in the garage that I havenít gotten around to replacing because it does work but when itís on it causes flickering in my outdoor lights.  I should really get out the ladder because such fluctuations could reduce the life of other bulbs

So my main point is that there can be a contagion effect with led/cfl that you never saw with incandescent.  Still totally worth it to me

dragoncar

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Re: LED vs CFL vs Incandescent
« Reply #43 on: March 04, 2018, 12:20:31 PM »
You would deprive a toddler the sheer joy of playing with a lightbulb?  Whatís next, no running with scissors?í

Plugra

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Re: LED vs CFL vs Incandescent
« Reply #44 on: March 31, 2018, 10:46:32 AM »
Quote
I used to think similarly but after a closet light got left on for 12+ hours one too many times I folded and went LED everywhere.  At the end of the day, an incandescent is going to cost you $__ over it's lifetime and an LED is going to cost less.  The ROI may not be great but it will be a cost save eventually.

Exactly.  I had replaced all of my incandescents with LEDs, except for a handful of outdoor 100W floods - which we just never use - in the back yard.  Then last week I noticed (my solar panels came with energy monitoring app) that my house was drawing a whopping 800W in the middle of the night with virtually everything powered off.  I checked all over and realized that someone had accidentally flipped on the outdoor floods.  They had been on for hours. Better just to get rid of them.

If you do the math, the excess electrical power consumption of a typical CFL costs more per hour (about 0.13 cents/hr at $0.12/kwh utility rate) than does the per hour depreciation on an LED bulb (about $2/50000h = 0.004 cents/hr).  So it makes sound financial sense to get rid of any non-LED bulb right now, even if you don't use it often.



 

HipGnosis

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Re: LED vs CFL vs Incandescent
« Reply #45 on: April 01, 2018, 04:06:48 PM »

Iíve started getting more flickering when the fridge or other compressors kick on.  This would probably have occurred with incandescent, of course, not sure if itís happening more or a bulb is starting to fail
Not necessarily.  LEDs flicker faster than incandescents can.  Incandescents filament takes a small but finite time to ramp up to brightness and ramp down to 0 illumination.
I proved this many times when car LED tail and 3rd brake lights started coming out.  I'd watch for cars that had incandescent and LEDs - you could see the LEDs come on and go off 'faster' than the incandescents.

dragoncar

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Re: LED vs CFL vs Incandescent
« Reply #46 on: April 02, 2018, 12:13:14 AM »

Iíve started getting more flickering when the fridge or other compressors kick on.  This would probably have occurred with incandescent, of course, not sure if itís happening more or a bulb is starting to fail
Not necessarily.  LEDs flicker faster than incandescents can.  Incandescents filament takes a small but finite time to ramp up to brightness and ramp down to 0 illumination.
I proved this many times when car LED tail and 3rd brake lights started coming out.  I'd watch for cars that had incandescent and LEDs - you could see the LEDs come on and go off 'faster' than the incandescents.

I can definitely identify led taillights if they are the pulsed kind (seems like most).  Just moving my eye back and forth I can see the strobe effect at night.  Pretty annoying.  Not sure if I have an extra sensitivity to such things, as nobody else in my household is bothered by the LEDs either (or the humming when dimmed)
« Last Edit: April 02, 2018, 12:32:58 AM by dragoncar »

crimwell

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Re: LED vs CFL vs Incandescent
« Reply #47 on: April 22, 2018, 01:18:28 AM »
I've noticed the same thing with the strobe light effect of LEDs.

I bought some cheap Walmart LEDs to put in a ceiling fan/lack fixture. They made noticeable flickers all over the room as the fan blade shadow moved when the fan spun. The strobe light effect was so intense that it literally almost made me puke. Took me like a half hour before I stopped having a headache, after being in there for like 5 minutes. I took the bulbs back, got some name brand ones from home Depot, and they are BETTER. Not perfect, but I can be in the room with the lights and fan on and not feel nauseated.


crimwell

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Re: LED vs CFL vs Incandescent
« Reply #48 on: April 22, 2018, 01:18:59 AM »
My toddler has thing for light bulbs, so I gave him two cheap (~$1 a bulb) 60 watt equivalent LED bulbs to play with about a year ago. He treated them as you would expect a toddler, meaning they were thrown, stomped, and may have even gone in bath tub with him once or twice. This past weekend, one of my hallway lights fully burned out (two CFL bulbs), and I was out of replacement LEDs so I took my son's toys and screwed them into the sockets. Amazingly, both LED bulbs worked perfectly after a year of hard abuse.

The durability of LEDs compared to other bulbs is impressive.

Also, it seems that my CFLs always burned out far sooner than their advertised life expectancy.

 this is awesome

freya

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Re: LED vs CFL vs Incandescent
« Reply #49 on: April 22, 2018, 08:28:01 AM »
Another reason to get rid of CFLs:  they're easy to break, and a broken CFL is a serious health hazard.   I've broken several in the past few months (one rolled off a table, dropped another by accident while changing it, bulb broke in my hands while screwing it in).  And when they break, they explode and throw fragments everywhere.  They also are a PITA to dispose of since they can't go in regular trash.

Sounds like I can fix the LED flickering issue by sticking with good quality bulbs and getting rid of a couple of dimmer switches...nice, thanks all.