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Learning, Sharing, and Teaching => Reader Recommendations => Topic started by: sol on September 11, 2012, 08:58:39 PM

Title: LED light bulbs
Post by: sol on September 11, 2012, 08:58:39 PM
I purchased a couple of LED bulbs for recessed can lights in my house, shortly after reading this little classic:

http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/03/05/so-i-bought-you-a-40-light-bulb-today/

This one (http://www.amazon.com/Feit-Electric-Par38-Flood-Dimmable/dp/B00545WDXI/ref=sr_1_4?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1347411797&sr=1-4&keywords=led+par38) went over the cooking island and this one (http://www.amazon.com/LEDwholesalers-Dimmable-PAR38-Standard-1322WH-DM/dp/B0052J5FPE/ref=sr_1_3?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1347418227&sr=1-3&keywords=led+par38) went over the sink.

After using them for a few months, I've decided that I like the one over the stove better, mostly because it's a more focused beam.  The sink light technically produces more lumens, but covers a much wider area.  On the plus side, it is a shorter bulb so that it sits further recessed into the fixture, which I like.  I have some old PAR38 CFL bulbs that were dirt cheap but they protrude too far and thus are blinding from all angles.

When MMM wrote this article six months ago, the bulbs were going for about $40 each.  I just bought a few more for $31 including shipping from Amazon (another like my stove light, and this (http://www.amazon.com/Sylvania-78495-Dimmable-Replacement-Halogen/dp/B00467E3MY/ref=sr_1_5?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1347418227&sr=1-5&keywords=led+par38)).  If you've been considering making the switch to LEDs, prices have come down significantly.  Now might be a good time to upgrade.
Title: Re: LED light bulbs
Post by: happy on September 12, 2012, 06:00:47 AM
My house has a lot of downlights which chew up 50W each... so I've been replacing them gradually. LEDs don't always live up to their ratings, so I suggest to buy one to test before buying many. A year or so ago I  replaced some with 7W Cree LEDs downlights: worked like a charm but not as bright as the halogens.  So we though carefully about  their placement - for example in my childrens rooms then have 4 lights wired in pairs, 1 pair has leds for common use (at 2x7W) and the other pair is used if they really need bright light (2x50W).

My laundry has a Gu10 fitting- a useless light if there ever was one...  expensive , difficult to replace and often prone to short life span...I was delighted to find a GU10  7W led replacement. Its great mate.

The latest release Down Under is thishttp://brightgreen.com/ (http://brightgreen.com/). 10W downlight that will perform regardless of the transformer wired into the downlight - if you didn't have the right wiring/transformer previously you couldn't just replace the regular downlight with an LED. I'm hoping they will get a little cheaper (best price I've found is $57) soon.....and then I will strategically replace a couple more in the kitchen.
Title: Re: LED light bulbs
Post by: tooqk4u22 on September 12, 2012, 09:00:21 AM
My house has a lot of downlights which chew up 50W each... so I've been replacing them gradually.

If you have any left in areas that you use regularly replace them ASAP with at least CFLs...do not wait.  The CFLs are cheap enough and the cost will be covered quick. 
Title: Re: LED light bulbs
Post by: happy on September 12, 2012, 04:29:55 PM
Sorry, we don't have CFLs for downlights here, or I would have done. The highest use downlights already have LEDs in them anyway, but we are sacrificing brightness at times and still use the others at times for short periods if we need more light.
Title: Re: LED light bulbs
Post by: Lazyretirementgirl on October 01, 2012, 08:14:10 PM
Sol, I have a problem with LEDs which I hope you or others can help me solve. I have tons of can light fixtures in my house and would like to put LED bulbs in all of them.  Amazon seems to have a good selection and prices; however, I am stumped when I try to figure out which bulb will for which fixture. Is there some secret matrix or coding which will help me figure this out? Thanks!
Title: Re: LED light bulbs
Post by: sol on October 01, 2012, 09:40:27 PM
Most of the LED bulbs are the same standard sizes as the incandescent bulbs they replace.

My canister lights took PAR38 bulbs, so I bought PAR38 led bulbs to replace them.  Same fixture and dimensions.

If you don't have any old regular bulbs to look at to figure out what you need, you can probably just measure the can and then go cruise the bulb isle at your local hardware store to see what looks right.  I'd guess on one, try it out, and return it if it's the wrong size.
Title: Re: LED light bulbs
Post by: igthebold on October 02, 2012, 07:23:03 AM
Thanks for the writeup, sol. We mostly have CFLs, but do have a dimmable chandelier with incandescent, and a need for better task lighting in our kitchen, so I'll definitely consider it.
Title: Re: LED light bulbs
Post by: lauren_knows on October 02, 2012, 07:57:49 AM
Every time one of the cannister halogen lights in my kitchen blows out, I think about getting an LED light, get gunshy from the $30-40 price, and end up getting another cheap halogen.

I think that mostly I'm scared about the "color" of the light.  My wife absolutely hates one of the types of CFL's (I can't remember if it's the "warm" or the "bright" color), and I don't want to spend $40 on a light bulb that is supposed to last 20 years, if my wife is going to hate it.

I need an LED light gallery.
Title: Re: LED light bulbs
Post by: sol on October 02, 2012, 08:43:00 AM
I need an LED light gallery.

Such things do exist.

Even Home Depot had a mini one the last time I was in there.  It was only like four bulbs, but each one was labelled with the color temperature and every bulb of the same K value will produce the same kind of light.
Title: Re: LED light bulbs
Post by: igthebold on October 02, 2012, 02:32:58 PM
I think that mostly I'm scared about the "color" of the light.  My wife absolutely hates one of the types of CFL's (I can't remember if it's the "warm" or the "bright" color), and I don't want to spend $40 on a light bulb that is supposed to last 20 years, if my wife is going to hate it.

My wife used to hate CFL colors, but we moved into a house where the owner had already installed CFLs everywhere. Now she doesn't care at all, as far as I can tell.

"Just do it," would be valid advice in your situation, but you know your wife. Maybe, "Just try it," in a single room. Who knows, they might even have decent resale value.
Title: Re: LED light bulbs
Post by: fiveoh on October 10, 2012, 12:57:52 PM
Question about LEDs.... we have one of those typical holywood vanity style light fixtures in the bathroom, do they make LED bulbs for these?  I dont want to use CFL due to the delay and we go in and out quickly a lot. 
Title: Re: LED light bulbs
Post by: sol on October 10, 2012, 03:25:20 PM
I have yet to find a bulb format that they're not making led bulbs for. You may have to hunt a bit, but they're out there.
Title: Re: LED light bulbs
Post by: velocistar237 on October 11, 2012, 09:00:49 AM
Question about LEDs.... we have one of those typical holywood vanity style light fixtures in the bathroom, do they make LED bulbs for these?  I dont want to use CFL due to the delay and we go in and out quickly a lot.

I picked one up and tried it out, and it was awful. Though there was a globe, only the center of the globe was lit, making the bulb much brighter and harder to look at. I switched back to CFL, despite the warm-up problems. Let me know if you find a better one.
Title: Re: LED light bulbs
Post by: Bakari on October 11, 2012, 10:51:12 AM

I picked one up and tried it out, and it was awful. Though there was a globe, only the center of the globe was lit, making the bulb much brighter and harder to look at.

There are a whole lot of options, in more styles and formats and shapes than you can imagine.
Try superbrightleds.com



Look for 360degree beam patterns, diffuser lens, and/or multiple LEDs instead of a single cree/luxeon
Title: Re: LED light bulbs
Post by: velocistar237 on October 11, 2012, 11:00:28 AM
Thanks. For reference, this (http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R-202324432/h_d2/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10053) is the bulb I tried.
Title: Re: LED light bulbs
Post by: igthebold on October 16, 2012, 08:46:40 AM
One benefit of LEDs is not only tested lifespan, but actual lifespan. In my house, I'm training my children to turn off the light if they leave the room. This can reduce the lifespan of a CFL (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compact_fluorescent_lamp#Lifespan), but I think it's an important habit, since it's hard to get children to leave the light on if they're leaving a room for fewer than 15 minutes, but turn it off otherwise.

I'm *guessing* LED lights won't suffer from this wear-and-tear issue, right? If not, then it fits the bedroom light scenario much better than CFLs do.
Title: Re: LED light bulbs
Post by: TomTX on October 21, 2012, 07:49:51 PM
Every time one of the cannister halogen lights in my kitchen blows out, I think about getting an LED light, get gunshy from the $30-40 price, and end up getting another cheap halogen.

I think that mostly I'm scared about the "color" of the light.  My wife absolutely hates one of the types of CFL's (I can't remember if it's the "warm" or the "bright" color), and I don't want to spend $40 on a light bulb that is supposed to last 20 years, if my wife is going to hate it.

I need an LED light gallery.

It's probably the "bright" ones. Decent packaging should give you the "color temperature" of a CFL or LED light. 2700K* is a nice warm color, pleasant. 5000K is pretty darn blue and harsh. Somehow I think my Mom found some 6000K - those really annoy me. Very harsh.

*The "color temperature" scale is a bit arcane. Technically, it's temperature in degrees in Kelvin (Kelvin is almost the same as Celsius, but "zero" in Kelvin is -273.15C.) It's the color of an object heated to that temperature, if the object is a perfect radiator (or "black body") - if you have ever seen blacksmithing, when the iron is hot it starts to glow dull red, hotter is orange, hotter is yellow, et cetera.
Title: Re: LED light bulbs
Post by: happy on October 22, 2012, 04:07:11 AM
We have some 2700K LEDs, and they are a nice warm colour especially if you are used to tungsten. We now have some 3000k ones which are just that bit less yellow...bright but not harsh. Just right to my eye, but probably depends on where you are using them and personal preference.
Title: Re: LED light bulbs
Post by: Lazyretirementgirl on November 09, 2012, 08:44:20 PM
Sol, thank you so much for the advice and information on fitting the led bulbs. I ordered several from Amazon after checking the PAR numbers, and installed them today. They work like a dream, and were significantly less expensive than the non LED bulbs we had been getting from the specialty store we had been stuck buying from. I really appreciate your help.
Title: Re: LED light bulbs
Post by: Blindsquirrel on December 22, 2012, 08:28:57 PM
  FYI, you can get decent LEDs from Ebay for about 31 bucks for six of them. Really like em
Title: Re: LED light bulbs
Post by: TomTX on December 27, 2012, 07:05:52 AM
The dropping cost of LED bulbs can contribute a lot in making the world a greener place for us. We often say that we don't buy LED because it is expensive but what we don't know is that we are actually saving by means of buying something more expensive. The traditional incandescent bulb's cost doesn't just count the price you pay on the actual day you purchase it, you must also take into consideration the number of times you have to replace it and the energy that it consumes as part of your electric bill. Incandescent and halogen lights consume around 40-60 watts while LEDs range from 9-13 watts. As for lifespan, incandescent bulbs lasts around 1,000 hours as compared with LED bulbs which can last around 30,000 hours. By switching to LED bulbs we not only save the our own money but we help save the world through lesser energy consumption. - lara (http://www.urbanclotheslines.com/category-wall-mounted-drying-rack)

A more fair comparison is a $1-$2 13W CFL lasting years versus a $30-$35 9W LED lasting more years. Comparing incandescent/halogen against LED for long-term power savings is a false basis. CFLs are cheap, good color rendering (if you choose the right color temp) and save you 75% of the power used by an incandescent.

I have almost all CFL lights in this house. We moved in more than 7 years ago. ONE finally burned out this month.

Modern CFL bulbs have very little mercury (only the early ones had much.)
Title: Re: LED light bulbs
Post by: Platypus on December 30, 2012, 05:16:29 PM
Thanks for the reminder about LED bulbs! My local electrical provider does discounts on energy efficient bulbs/appliances/etc in their service area, and I found out from their website that they're doing a killer sale for the holidays. I managed to grab 6 soft white 12w LED (60watt equivalents) that say they give out 810 lumens for a total of $19 after tax. I might pick up more before the sale ends!

We're moving next month, and I'm hoping to equip our new place with mostly LED or CFLs. It looks like the last tenants left a lot of CFLs in the house already, lucky us!

Another quick and inexpensive energy saver = a blanket insulator for the hot water heater...
Title: Re: LED light bulbs
Post by: grantmeaname on January 12, 2013, 01:26:54 PM
  FYI, you can get decent LEDs from Ebay for about 31 bucks for six of them. Really like em
Link me? Our place is about to need about half a dozen lightbulbs replaced.
Title: Re: LED light bulbs
Post by: Blindsquirrel on January 27, 2013, 06:21:18 PM
http://www.ebay.com/itm/10x-E27-Warm-White-Energy-Saving-5050-SMD-LED-Light-Bulb-Lamp-25W-USA-Ship-/110907532696?_trksid=p5197.m1992&_trkparms=aid%3D111000%26algo%3DREC.CURRENT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D14%26meid%3D5182459714848140913%26pid%3D100015%26prg%3D1006%26rk%3D1%26sd%3D110907532696%26

Here are 10 low watt ones for $21 just search on ebay and they will pop on up.
Title: Re: LED light bulbs
Post by: grantmeaname on January 27, 2013, 07:20:42 PM
Thanks! I've got 10 on the way!
Title: Re: LED light bulbs
Post by: Ozstache on January 28, 2013, 03:50:31 AM
I've got a house full of 50W MR16 down lights, most of which are in groups of 4 on a dimmer. I put together a cost break even analysis for all these lights, which took electricity cost, replacement LED light cost and average daily usage rates into account. The break even point was generally decades, and even with my most used lights (kitchen) came out to just over 10 years for a ROE.  As such, I haven't changed any of them for now, as I expect that in a couple of years time the cost of LED lights will come down quite significantly and a sub 5 year ROE will be possible. I'm such a nerd!
Title: Re: LED light bulbs
Post by: Blindsquirrel on January 31, 2013, 04:34:37 PM
 Ozstache? What base price are you using for LEDs?  When you factor in the stunning life of LED lights I came out at much quicker. LED replacement for a 60 watt has a 4.5 watt draw. Cost was 5 bucks an LED. Thanks!
Title: Re: LED light bulbs
Post by: Ozstache on February 01, 2013, 12:05:05 AM
For a dimmable MR16, it's around $35 here in the merry merry land of Oz.  Non-dimmable and non-MR-16 are much cheaper, but of course I have none of those.
Title: Re: LED light bulbs
Post by: Blindsquirrel on February 01, 2013, 08:00:40 PM
 Wow! I just got 8 for $41 off ebay. They are E27 base 60 watt rplacements. Shipped from China. $5 a pop makes them a no brainer.
Title: Re: LED light bulbs
Post by: grantmeaname on February 02, 2013, 06:04:22 AM
Our LED lightbulbs are in. They're pretty dim and very directional, but the color is nice at least. We're going to put them in fixtures where we have tons of sockets and down in the basement.
Title: Re: LED light bulbs
Post by: Gubmints on February 24, 2013, 08:23:15 PM
I purchased a couple of LED bulbs for recessed can lights in my house, shortly after reading this little classic:

http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/03/05/so-i-bought-you-a-40-light-bulb-today/

This one (http://www.amazon.com/Feit-Electric-Par38-Flood-Dimmable/dp/B00545WDXI/ref=sr_1_4?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1347411797&sr=1-4&keywords=led+par38) went over the cooking island and this one (http://www.amazon.com/LEDwholesalers-Dimmable-PAR38-Standard-1322WH-DM/dp/B0052J5FPE/ref=sr_1_3?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1347418227&sr=1-3&keywords=led+par38) went over the sink.

After using them for a few months, I've decided that I like the one over the stove better, mostly because it's a more focused beam.  The sink light technically produces more lumens, but covers a much wider area.  On the plus side, it is a shorter bulb so that it sits further recessed into the fixture, which I like.  I have some old PAR38 CFL bulbs that were dirt cheap but they protrude too far and thus are blinding from all angles.

When MMM wrote this article six months ago, the bulbs were going for about $40 each.  I just bought a few more for $31 including shipping from Amazon (another like my stove light, and this (http://www.amazon.com/Sylvania-78495-Dimmable-Replacement-Halogen/dp/B00467E3MY/ref=sr_1_5?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1347418227&sr=1-5&keywords=led+par38)).  If you've been considering making the switch to LEDs, prices have come down significantly.  Now might be a good time to upgrade.

I've been buying LED's in 3-packs at Costco for ~$17/pack- Been using these for over a year now as replacements for CFL's when they die.  The local Costco has LED bulbs in various form factors, even the Liberace Candelabra version!

Note: I've found CFLs last a LONG time in a fixture where they are 'always on', but CFLs only last about 6-18 months as closet or bathroom lights that get flicked on or off frequently.
Title: Re: LED light bulbs
Post by: James on February 24, 2013, 08:34:27 PM
Our LED lightbulbs are in. They're pretty dim and very directional, but the color is nice at least. We're going to put them in fixtures where we have tons of sockets and down in the basement.


I got a couple LED lightbulbs also, I agree about the directional aspect, makes it a poor fit for a good number of our fixtures.  I also agree about the light quality, and I will continue to add some where appropriate.
Title: Re: LED light bulbs
Post by: gecko10x on February 25, 2013, 05:50:36 AM
We purchased a couple of these (http://www.amazon.com/HitLights-AffordIX-Household-Replacement-Incandescent/dp/B007TO2QLQ/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_nC?ie=UTF8&colid=2Q473RM6INM8P&coliid=I13H6MAZAQ0GTW) recently and are very happy with them. Not quite as cheap as what's being discussed above, but I'd happily replace any of our bulbs with them. (Admittedly, I've only tried them in our canister fixtures so far. They may be too directional for all fixtures.)
Title: Re: LED light bulbs
Post by: Spork on February 25, 2013, 03:25:43 PM

I'd like to hear feedback on lifespan.  I've read the lab results, which look really good.  What I'm worried about is real life wear.  We live in the country and our power is sub-optimal -- lots of spikes/dips/dropouts.  My worry is that LEDs are going to be very sensitive to this. 

I'm thinking I need a whole-house surge suppressor -- though that's a different topic entirely.
Title: Re: LED light bulbs
Post by: happy on February 27, 2013, 01:37:02 AM
I'm a big fan of LEDs and was somewhat upset that one of  my LEDs burnt out after quite a short time: definitely less than 1000 hours, probably just a few hundred.

Since it was allegedly a good quality LED I was not happy: hopefully its just a random dud.
Title: Re: LED light bulbs
Post by: Spork on February 27, 2013, 07:43:05 AM
I'm a big fan of LEDs and was somewhat upset that one of  my LEDs burnt out after quite a short time: definitely less than 1000 hours, probably just a few hundred.

Since it was allegedly a good quality LED I was not happy: hopefully its just a random dud.

[Danger: Ignorance ahead.]

Does the whole bulb burn out?  Or does it go in bits and pieces?  I.e., does it go out like an LED traffic light were individual cells start going out over time or in one poof?
Title: Re: LED light bulbs
Post by: Daley on February 27, 2013, 08:01:41 AM
I'm a big fan of LEDs and was somewhat upset that one of  my LEDs burnt out after quite a short time: definitely less than 1000 hours, probably just a few hundred.

Since it was allegedly a good quality LED I was not happy: hopefully its just a random dud.

[Danger: Ignorance ahead.]

Does the whole bulb burn out?  Or does it go in bits and pieces?  I.e., does it go out like an LED traffic light were individual cells start going out over time or in one poof?

Driver board failure, usually due to cheap electronics on the power converter end... and this sort of failure is far more common than you think. Technically, the diodes that generate the light are still just fine, but it's hard to impossible to fix because of the way the package is designed.
Title: Re: LED light bulbs
Post by: Spork on February 27, 2013, 08:56:17 AM
I'm a big fan of LEDs and was somewhat upset that one of  my LEDs burnt out after quite a short time: definitely less than 1000 hours, probably just a few hundred.

Since it was allegedly a good quality LED I was not happy: hopefully its just a random dud.

[Danger: Ignorance ahead.]

Does the whole bulb burn out?  Or does it go in bits and pieces?  I.e., does it go out like an LED traffic light were individual cells start going out over time or in one poof?

Driver board failure, usually due to cheap electronics on the power converter end... and this sort of failure is far more common than you think. Technically, the diodes that generate the light are still just fine, but it's hard to impossible to fix because of the way the package is designed.

That was my fear.  My utility power sucks and is likely to fry them.  (I just looked at my logs and I see 82 UPS transfers since mid January.)
Title: Re: LED light bulbs
Post by: happy on February 27, 2013, 09:26:03 PM
It went in one "poof". Well no poof, just failed to light up one day.
Tech minded occupant of the house fiddled and tried various things but to no avail. Thanks IP  for the tip, won't buy that brand anymore.
Title: Re: LED light bulbs
Post by: Daley on February 27, 2013, 09:42:55 PM
It went in one "poof". Well no poof, just failed to light up one day.
Tech minded occupant of the house fiddled and tried various things but to no avail. Thanks IP  for the tip, won't buy that brand anymore.

I think it may have just as much to do with the price point as it does the brand if past history with CFL real world usage versus box labeled lifespan and price points are any indicator.

There's a reason why I still run tungsten in my house.
Title: Re: LED light bulbs
Post by: Spork on February 28, 2013, 08:17:20 AM

I have no idea if this relates to LEDs or not, but ... for CFL and traditional incandescent alike -- if you can find 130v bulbs instead of 120v bulbs, you will get a huge difference in lifespan.  Even those that have decent power from the grid get fluctuations above 120v.  Mine sits at 122-125 normally.

Another thing I discovered: Edison screw sockets have a contact at the bottom on a bit of a little spring.  Usually the spring is just a bit of bent metal that flexes.  Often people will take a bulb and screw that puppy down TIGHT.   This deforms that screw and actually will sometimes make a tiny air gap between the bottom of the bulb and the contact.  Every time you turn the light on, you get a tiny little arc for a split second.  If you unscrew the bulb and see the contact smashed flat against the bottom of the socket, take a second to pull that contact up a bit with a screwdriver or a pair of needle nose pliers.  (Turn the damn thing off before you do this, of course).  Then when you screw the bulb in, screw it in just enough to make the bulb come on solid and STOP.
Title: Re: LED light bulbs
Post by: philoneist on March 08, 2013, 06:43:31 PM
I just came across an article about this.

Home Depot now has a $10 LED bulb by Cree
There are bright white & warm white 40 & 60 watt versions.

There are very few reasons not to get them at that price.
Title: Re: LED light bulbs
Post by: Use it up, wear it out... on March 08, 2013, 08:03:42 PM
Marco Arment's review (http://www.marco.org/2013/03/05/cree-led-bulb)
Title: Re: LED light bulbs
Post by: happy on March 17, 2013, 07:34:20 AM
Well, except that If IP Daley is correct, maybe the electronics that support the Cree might be poor quality and hence more likely to fail.... The one of mine that failed had Cree LEDs, and was quite expensive.
Title: Re: LED light bulbs
Post by: nico demouse on March 18, 2013, 08:41:06 AM
I'm curious if anyone has tried this type of globe/vanity bulb?

http://www.amazon.com/Feit-Electric-BPG25-LED-RP/dp/B00317DFRY/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top

I need to replace a few bulbs in our bathroom. We've been using CFLs and have had the usual problems with short lifespan. Our Menards has these for about $2 cheaper per bulb...seems worth a try, anyway.
Title: Re: LED light bulbs
Post by: suzyfein on March 24, 2013, 01:57:45 PM
Thank you all for the great info in this thread. The regular light bulbs in our upstairs Hollywood-style fixture recently ALL blew in the span of about a week. I was sick of buying the bulbs, so I put a lamp in there for now. We're planning to sell our house, and our real estate agent wants us to replace that fixture anyway. I'm keeping an eye on Craigslist and yard sales for a new fixture that doesn't require the globe bulbs.
Title: Re: LED light bulbs
Post by: happy on March 28, 2013, 05:00:42 PM
PS I see looking at the review that you are talking about lights branded Cree, which we don't seem to get here downunder.....we seem to have less choice and it costs more.

One of the problems I'm having is that we can only get LEDs shaped  like a regular old fashioned incandescent light bulb, but have larger dimensions . The CFCs work well - they are longer but slimmer, but all the LEDs to fit are shaped like the old fashioned incandescents but are longer and wider, so don't fit some of my "oyster" ceiling lights.
Title: Re: LED light bulbs
Post by: ivyhedge on April 29, 2013, 08:10:48 PM
Maybe, "Just try it," in a single room. Who knows, they might even have decent resale value.
Absolutely. My wife and I are house hunting in Boston. This past weekend we visited a place that had undergone a gut renovation. Between the kitchen and living area (open) there were, perhaps, fifteen pot lamps. All equipped with LEDs. What gorgeous light that we both noticed immediately!
Title: Re: LED light bulbs
Post by: ivyhedge on April 29, 2013, 08:23:04 PM
Note: I've found CFLs last a LONG time in a fixture where they are 'always on', but CFLs only last about 6-18 months as closet or bathroom lights that get flicked on or off frequently.

Knock on wood...We've used the same three CFls in two bathrooms of two apartments for just over four years. In fact, some of our other bulbs are positively vintage - mercury-ridden and they take a while when it's cold to start. But they won't die!
Title: Re: LED light bulbs
Post by: robtown on December 17, 2013, 07:41:09 PM
Marco Arment's review (http://www.marco.org/2013/03/05/cree-led-bulb)

I prefer LED to CFL because they are instant on.  They also seem to be brighter and are a conventional form factor.  For example, they fit in table top lamps where the shade fits over the bulb.

I bought the Home Depot 6 pack of 9.5w (60w) bulbs for about $72.   They are instant on and seem brighter than the 60w incandescent they replaced.  The bulbs themselves have a interesting plastic / rubbery feel.   They have a dark spot on the top about the size of an older style bulbs wattage label,  maybe dime sized.

I just ordered a 6 pack of 9w bulbs from Asia on Ebay for $19 shipped.  Hopefully they will be close to the Home Depot bulb quality.   Together with a number of LED flood bulbs, LED candelabra bulbs,  and several CFL most of my lights will be high efficiency.    I don't have numbers but our electric bill is lower.
Title: Re: LED light bulbs
Post by: TheDude on December 25, 2013, 09:34:30 PM
Robtwon, Did you get your LED bulbs from Asia?  Just wondering how they worked.
Title: Re: LED light bulbs
Post by: msilenus on December 27, 2013, 02:01:58 AM
I'm curious if anyone on this thread who's had good experience with can LEDs can share how effective they are when dimmed all the way? Any buzzing?

We have some lights in our hallway that we usually keep dimmed very low.  A wide range of illumination will be very important in their replacements, and any buzzing would be a complete deal breaker.
Title: Re: LED light bulbs
Post by: bostonmoney on December 27, 2013, 08:40:35 AM
As driver technology changes almost as fast as LED tech changes, the buzzing is almost non existent in newer 60w replacement bulbs from Philips (at least for all the lights that have these in my house).  A lot of times it is just the threshold they dim to that most people will find annoying, since there is not a perfect 0%-100%, its something like 15 - 100%.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Philips-60W-Equivalent-Soft-White-2700K-A19-Dimmable-LED-Light-Bulb-E-424382/203553310#

Also home depot in every state partners with different energy consortiums.  For example this bulb above is $9.99 in MA, $14.99 in NH, $6.99 in ME, and $4.99 in VT.  Always changing to.  Each state will subsidize them differently, and I know specifically Philips bulbs can be subsidized based on region and retailer (Philips heavily partners with home depot for lamps).  There are other manufactures out there subsidized I am sure.  I think the DC area was cheapest and may even be under 5$ recently.

Also check your states websites, like for MA we have mass save and can use this site http://www.energyfederation.org/estarlights/default.php

I get these bulbs as an employee discount for like 5$, but you can buy them subsidized for that all over the place.  At 5$ there is a serious argument for using them in almost any 60W A19 fixture.  They also look normal (instead of having the large heat sinks visible) so open air fixture from ceiling fans work great with these.  I am lucky enough to have most of my house on cheap 60W fixture so I now have the entire house on LED.  I could not before because the cheap light fixtures i have, the socket is horizontal mounted with a sheet metal tab, would not hold the weight of a block of aluminium...  The quality of light is so much better when comparing them to cfls.  My eyes always felt strained under cfls after a time.




I would just like to add some information after finding this thread (since I work in the lighting industry), you can stop reading if I bore you...

As someone mentioned before, never have the misconception that LEDs are a weird color or not the correct type of light.  There is a reason people have that misconception.  LEDs are changing literally every 6 months in the industry, its an insane breakneck pace.  Even just 1-2 years ago your lights were on the bluer side because of the quality of LED used.  They used to convert blue led lights with phosphor into white light in order to be at the correct efficiency and cost point to even sell a product.  Now they are producing white light leds that are requiring less fixture level filtering.  There are many other reasons to, but I am not going to go through the entire design history over the last few years. 

You can also get any color temperature light you want, so its highly customizable.  Anyone who says they don't like LEDs because they don't have that soft yellow look I challenge you to put a 2700k LED bulb in a lamp fixture and tell me the difference.  Remember, cooler light is the softer yellow color (2700K).  Just like when you are in chemistry class looking at a Bunsen burner, the hottest point is at the base of the burner where it is blue.  That is the logic behind light following the Kelvin scale.  A lot of LED par lamps and stuff are more towards the 3000-3500K range because they have better color rending.  so if you are truly looking for a warm feeling glow you need to go with the "cooler" 2700K version.

Lumens is a tough measurement to go by, yes the entire industry is using that to market but be aware that a light source may have 900 lumens but that does not dictate which direction it is traveling in.  lumens is a general term for the quantity of light from a source, that could be traveling down, up, left or right.  It is the sum of those directions.  Lot of times LEDs are more directional in nature as opposed to incandescent or cfls.  for example with the 60W bulb linked above has much more light being projected out of the top bulb portion than lets say a normal 60W incandescent.  Lumens is not actually the best apples to apples comparison.  Look at the bulb structure as well as part of your evaluation.

CRI - This is not as heavily marketed to consumer lighting but in the business world it is starting to be.  It may eventually trickle down to matter.  It is the color rending index, the closer to 100 the better.  Anything above 80 is generally good, a lot of times you have those cheaper bulbs from no name brands having low CRI, which can distort perceived light color.  Best way to describe CRI is look at a street sodium light vs a normal light and tell me how a color looks different under each.  The street light has very low CRI, but very high light output.  When you walk into retail clothing stores or grocery stores and you see a lot of LEDs being used, its because they can get your nice Red sweater or apple to look that much better on the shelf.  It is not necessarily that the business is trying to be energy efficient/conscious.  Although it certainty does not hurt the business case!

Most LED bulbs have a disclaimer on them is to not used within enclosed fixtures.  Now the reason for this generally (while I am not going to endorse anything electrical will not cause any fires...) LEDs are very temperature sensitive.  This is not to say they run hotter than a CFL or incandescent, they are actually usually cooler.  If you go to remove a LED after its been on for hours you can probably touch the bulb without frying your hand.  However, LED life expectancy drops at higher temperatures.  The electronics inside are more complex and are prone to failure under higher thermal loads.  Without proper air flow they could reduce that 20 year life claim.  This really goes for any light source, but LEDs are just more prone to it.  With that being said, as they are becoming cheaper I am not as worried if they are failing a little sooner because they are in enclosed fixtures.  I just put all my 5$ 60W in them and they work fine, and at 5$ its not like I am frying a 40$ lamp.

Another thing I encourage you if you have recessed lights is to look into the actual LED retrofit modules instead of par lamps.  You will get better performance at usually a better price.  Then again things are always different week to week so do your research.

Also a note on life expectancy, when an LED bulb reaches its end of life it actually does not mean it burns out.  It just means it drops below a light output threshold set by the manufacturer.  So usually if it is completely burned out the electronics have failed for another reason.  Look for a manufacturer with a decently long warranty.  A lot of manufacturers are giving over 5 year warranty now for these.  Stick with a company that stands behind the product if you are paying a good chunk of money for a light.

Now that you are bored to death, hoped this helped anyone reading about LEDs!
Title: Re: LED light bulbs
Post by: robtown on December 27, 2013, 04:44:50 PM
Robtwon, Did you get your LED bulbs from Asia?  Just wondering how they worked.

I got them a few days ago,  shipping was faster than most "free shipping" items from China.    The bulbs were smaller than the standard bulb.  They do not have a dark spot like the Home Depot bulbs.  They were much dimmer, however,  not even as bright as a 60 watt.
Title: Re: LED light bulbs
Post by: gecko10x on December 27, 2013, 06:26:09 PM
Just thought I'd update since I commented almost 8 months ago about the ones we bought- still very happy with them, and just bought 4 more. We have them in the kitchen, so they are on probably 6 hours per day. Haven't had any failures.

(Also, as there are comments above about not using LEDs in enclosed fixtures- these say they are fine, and mine have been in fully recessed fixtures the whole time.)
Title: Re: LED light bulbs
Post by: SnackDog on December 28, 2013, 07:25:38 AM
I still don't understand the value in investing today in a product expected to last decades but which is changing, evolving and getting cheaper every month it seems.  Someone needs to plot the curve of price, life expectancy and power consumption on common LEDs and see where the break over occurs between locking in now, for 20 years with a bulb at current cost and power consumption, versus buying one more CFL and catching the LED wave in another couple years when they are way cheaper than today and potentially longer lasting and more efficient in energy use.

I hear some frugality in this thread but also a bunch of tech boffins wanting to show off all the cool LED lighting in their home.
Title: Re: LED light bulbs
Post by: gecko10x on December 28, 2013, 09:32:18 AM
I still don't understand the value in investing today in a product expected to last decades but which is changing, evolving and getting cheaper every month it seems.  Someone needs to plot the curve of price, life expectancy and power consumption on common LEDs and see where the break over occurs between locking in now, for 20 years with a bulb at current cost and power consumption, versus buying one more CFL and catching the LED wave in another couple years when they are way cheaper than today and potentially longer lasting and more efficient in energy use.

If you know the future, feel free. They will always be cheaper tomorrow than yesterday.

Quote
I hear some frugality in this thread but also a bunch of tech boffins wanting to show off all the cool LED lighting in their home.

I'm not sure where you're getting that, but OK.

Everyone will have their own criteria- for us, at $25-$60, they aren't worth it. But at $15, it's worth it between the energy, life, and getting the mercury out of our house and landfills.
Title: Re: LED light bulbs
Post by: Spork on December 28, 2013, 10:26:00 AM

I'm not sure where you're getting that, but OK.

Everyone will have their own criteria- for us, at $25-$60, they aren't worth it. But at $15, it's worth it between the energy, life, and getting the mercury out of our house and landfills.

I think what he's getting at is: this is a bit of timing the market.
* if they're $15 this year and drop to 4 next year, you could have done better by waiting
* if they promise to last 30 years and turn out to last only 4 years, you could have done better by sticking with CFs (and possibly even incandescents... I didn't run the numbers).

It's a bit of a guess... I suspect you'll save some buying now and save more buying in a couple of years.  But I'm timing the market, too.  Either of us (or both of us) could be wrong.
Title: Re: LED light bulbs
Post by: SnackDog on December 28, 2013, 12:26:20 PM
Market timing does not apply here. It is a term used for the stock or housing markets which goes up and down randomly and can lead to regrets if one buys and sells at the wrong times. LED prices are going down fast. Longevity and reliability are going up. Efficiency should increase as well.

If you only expected them to last a year, I could understand buying them now. But if we are within 2-3 years of the big explosion in LED lighting, better to wait.  When you see LED lights in use at grocery stores and offices, it is time to buy.

A buddy of mine (who could teach us all a thing or two about frugality) hated the high gas prices between Denver and Anchorage on his biannual fishing trip. He welded supplemental tanks in his pickup truck camper fore and aft of the wheel wells giving him something like 300 gallons capacity. Since gas prices rose every mile of the way, he topped up at every single gas station on the Alcan highway!  Drove his wife nuts.
Title: Re: LED light bulbs
Post by: Spork on December 28, 2013, 04:42:50 PM
Market timing does not apply here. It is a term used for the stock or housing markets which goes up and down randomly and can lead to regrets if one buys and sells at the wrong times. LED prices are going down fast. Longevity and reliability are going up. Efficiency should increase as well.

Hence the words "a bit of."  It was a comparative metaphor.  There are still going to be random events.  We don't really know the longevity of them in the real world.  We don't know when the price is going to plummet.  We don't know when the next big thing will come along and replace them. 
Title: Re: LED light bulbs
Post by: Jack on December 28, 2013, 05:41:06 PM
IKEA had "LEDARE" 40W-equivalent LEDs (400 lumens, 6.3 watts) on sale yesterday for $3.99 each, so I bought some. I've put one in a 2-bulb fixture next to the IKEA 60W-equivalent CFL (530 lumens, 11 watts) that I'd been using before in order to compare side-by-side.

The CFL took a while to warm up to full brightness, while the LED turned on instantly. Once warmed up, the LED and CFL are surprisingly equal in perceived brightness (which is weird since the CFL is supposed to be brighter -- it's a few years old, so maybe it's dimmed over time?). The LED is a tiny bit less pink than the CFL. Overall, the LED is an improvement in every way except that $3.99 is probably more than I paid for the CFL.

Edit: I got curious, so I did another test. I tried using each of the bulbs (in turn) in a lamp plugged into my Kill-a-Watt. The allegedly-11-watt CFL spiked to 17.6 watts at startup then used only 7.7 watts, while the allegedly-6.3-watt LED had no startup spike and used 5.4 watts. (During the time of the test, my measured wall voltage was 119-121 volts, so it's not that they were using less energy due to undervoltage.) I'm a little disappointed that the LED is supposed to use only 57% as much power as the CFL, but actually used 70% as much.
Title: Re: LED light bulbs
Post by: TomTX on December 30, 2013, 06:40:38 PM
I just came across an article about this.

Home Depot now has a $10 LED bulb by Cree
There are bright white & warm white 40 & 60 watt versions.

I've had a few more CFLs die since my post 2 years ago, and have bought a couple of the Cree bulbs to try them out - I really like them. Color temperature and color rendering are good.
Title: Re: LED light bulbs
Post by: bostonmoney on January 02, 2014, 11:36:43 AM
While the decision to wait vs buy is really up to your own situation, we are getting to the point where if your out buying a bulb and you have a choice between a CFL and an LED buy the LED. 

I would not say go out and replace every CFL in your house, as the wattage are similar that you wont see a cost savings.  Your cost savings with the LED will be in replacement.  And yes LED is getting more efficient every year, but if you need a replacement now get the LED.

Very back of the envelope but you could say in my area at 20 cents a Kwh running a light bulb for roughly 6 hours a day (usually the higher used lights in a home) gets you just under $0.04/month for each watt the light source is.

60W Incandescent light = $2.40/month
13-15W CFL = $0.52 - $0.60/month
9-11W LED = $0.36 - $0.44/month

So at most you might save $1.50 - $2.00 / year over a CFL, not really anything to write home about.  But then your replacement cost for investment and light quality there is where it puts it over the edge.  At some LED bulbs being in the 5-10$ range (Philips, CREE, etc) then it makes sense.  CFL cost is $1.50 - $2.00 for the basic low cost brand in a multi-pack. Pack that into a light that is used a lot more, such as an outside fixture your costs shift more in your LED's favor.  Or hard to reach places you may not want to keep having to replace yearly.


Your BR-30 Lamps (Consumer average down lights) Are also similar when doing the cost comparison/ROI.  LED in this category is the 10-15$ range for cost.

Some of your PAR lamps are not going to work out CFL vs LED, yet.  Those you should wait on buying.  The Heat Sinks and High Powered LED to achieve the spot look is not quite there.  But most consumers are going to buy BR-30 lamps and not PAR lamps.  PAR lamps are usually used in retail to highlight products, which is why they are popular LED choices for high CRI and better light quality.

Title: Re: LED light bulbs
Post by: GodlessCommie on January 03, 2014, 09:21:05 AM
IKEA had "LEDARE" 40W-equivalent LEDs (400 lumens, 6.3 watts) on sale yesterday for $3.99 each, so I bought some.

I got a bunch of IKEA LED bulbs recently, too. Paid a full price of $7, which I (without much research except regular home improvement store visits) still consider a decent deal. One good thing about LEDARE is that they are available with a small base - could not find those in HD or Lowes.

They replaced a bunch of older CFL and LED lights, some of which cost me upwards of $25. A marked improvement over both. My old Philips LED bulbs started to develop a pink hue, will have to look for a warranty. LEDARE runs cooler than older LEDs, according to my super-scientific fingertest. I also like their light better than one from HD's Cree bulbs, which are a couple of bucks more expensive.
Title: Re: LED light bulbs
Post by: Ottawa on January 25, 2014, 06:34:53 PM
Anyone try these before? 
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/10x-NEW-12W-Dimmable-LED-GU10-MR16-Light-Bulb-Lamp-CREE-Cool-Warm-white-globe-9W-/151011345924?pt=US_Light_Bulbs&var=&hash=item68cf8f8ccf (http://www.ebay.ca/itm/10x-NEW-12W-Dimmable-LED-GU10-MR16-Light-Bulb-Lamp-CREE-Cool-Warm-white-globe-9W-/151011345924?pt=US_Light_Bulbs&var=&hash=item68cf8f8ccf)

I need some GU10 bulbs for kitchen lighting (8 bulbs).  I'm looking at the 12W (4x3W) dimmable GU10s.  Anyone have experience with this type of bulb...and whether the above are places/bulbs that would be worthwhile?

Thanks!
Title: Re: LED light bulbs
Post by: monarda on January 25, 2014, 07:30:47 PM
Every couple of months I look to see about the state of the art for dimmable LED replacement bulbs for my 150-300W? halogen torchiere lamp.  They take the J-type halogen bulbs.

You know, these lamps (http://www.lampsplus.com/products/black-halogen-150-watt-torchiere-floor-lamp__68661.html). Mine wasn't $99.

I've found these bulbs (http://www.dilight.biz/led-lights/r7s-led-lamp/), or these bulbs (wrong country) (http://www.brightlightz.co.uk/categories/r7s-led-bulbs), but they don't seem to be dimmable. So I wait. C'mon engineers. Work your magic.

Anyone happen to have tried these?

Yes, I'm a big fan of Cree bulbs. I think we have 6 or 7 in our house now. CFLs for most of the rest.  A couple of lamps are still incandescent, but we don't use those lamps much (including the torchiere).

Title: Re: LED light bulbs
Post by: dan@themadrealworld on April 19, 2014, 08:05:05 PM
The CREE 60w soft while led's have been selling for $3.97 at Home Depot in CT.  $4.97 in MA.  They are subsidized by the state.  I bought a bunch and they look pretty good but don't seem super bright.  With 2 or 3 in a fixture looks good but by themself seem a little underpowered.  Good price though, check in your areas.

Another interesting thing is that I bought a 12 pack of cfls at walmart in ct for over $15.  I thought it seemed high since I had just bought the  same box in MA the week before.  I went back and checked in MA and same exact box was just over $5!!  Over $10 cheaper!  Different subsidies.
Title: Re: LED light bulbs
Post by: LennStar on April 22, 2014, 10:35:47 AM
I still don't understand the value in investing today in a product expected to last decades but which is changing, evolving and getting cheaper every month it seems.  Someone needs to plot the curve of price, life expectancy and power consumption on common LEDs and see where the break over occurs between locking in now, for 20 years with a bulb at current cost and power consumption, versus buying one more CFL and catching the LED wave in another couple years when they are way cheaper than today and potentially longer lasting and more efficient in energy use.

I hear some frugality in this thread but also a bunch of tech boffins wanting to show off all the cool LED lighting in their home.

When you see LED lights in use at grocery stores and offices, it is time to buy.

Here in germany we pay a lot for electricity. So in a often used lamp a 9W-11W LED  replacing a 60W is making itself worth after half a year, even at the unsubsidized 10€ price. And you arent going to buy a new one for a while. For the time the LED should work, you would pay at least 5€ for "old" light bulbs, it is not only the energy.

As you can see at the prize, I dont think the prizes in the US will fall. Just the subsidy. So buying later will not save money - the LED might even cost more in a year! And you have not saved the energy.

Also dont look at it like "I replace the CFL with LED". You replace the 60W with an LED with the CFL as a 3-year in between. The light on modern LEDs are much better then consumer CFL.

Thats why so many stores and offices already use them here! (and the savings of course).
Those who dont do it are the ones who use the old "better" CFL with the long tubes. Changing that fixture would be very costly, require the shop to be closed etc. No comparisoin to "screw that one in or this?" as we have to ponder.

LEDs are now (since a year) the best lighting alternative, even at the prize, considering their life time!
Title: Re: LED light bulbs
Post by: chucklesmcgee on April 22, 2014, 09:20:01 PM
Been using some Kobe and Phillips LEDs for over a year now, everything's great. Light quality is better than a traditional bulb, instant on and way less power usage. The Kobe's are on a dimmer and work well.
Title: Re: LED light bulbs
Post by: James on May 01, 2014, 09:58:11 AM
I have been looking for a nice long neck spot light in LED to replace my kitchen halogen lights. Everything I have found has been either too big or very expensive. I don't mind paying $15 each, but they need to be 75w equivalent and have nice light like the halogen does.  Any thoughts?


Right now I am just waiting for the right bulbs at the right price. I live far away from any big box stores, and I'm not willing to order expensive bulbs without knowing they will work well. I figure we still have another year or two for the big breakthroughs and for prices to really come down. I don't need anything fancy, no dimming, etc, just a nice light at the right price.
Title: Re: LED light bulbs
Post by: dilinger on June 04, 2014, 11:45:33 PM

Home Depot now has a $10 LED bulb by Cree
There are bright white & warm white 40 & 60 watt versions.


I saw them for $5 at home Depot.  I picked up about 20 of them :D
Title: Re: LED light bulbs
Post by: Mr. Frugalwoods on June 07, 2014, 06:56:08 PM
We bought a bunch of CFLs about 7 years ago.  As they die, I'm replacing with the Cree LEDs from Home Depot.  Here in MA the power company subsidizes them, so they cost $6.  Socialism is freaking awesome.

One of the projects on my list is replacing the ugly, halogen only, outdoor motion lights on our house with something that looks nice and takes LEDs.  I just know those halogens are eating up my electricity bill.  At least they are motion activated.

Anyone know how LEDs do in cold temps?  I assume just fine, since LEDs are used in street lights, but I wonder if consumer LEDs are similarly friendly to wild temperature swings.
Title: Re: LED light bulbs
Post by: Boz86 on June 08, 2014, 07:00:48 AM
Seems like they'd do fine in cold weather as one of the design issues is keeping them from overheating.
Title: Re: LED light bulbs
Post by: Dyk on June 26, 2014, 07:49:31 AM
I am newer here, and I am sure this is obvious to most of you, but it was still so amazing to me.

I called my power company, and they gave me a FREE box of bulbs, 2 LEDs, 4 CFLs and an LED night light.  The best part, I could get a box a day until they ran out.  (The light seems great, but for free, I can live with any sort of light.)

I got 5 boxes, and may do it again the next time they come in.  (On a side note, I picked all the boxes up on my bike, which made it feel 5x more badass than it already was.)

(What's crazy is that the same power company came 2 days ago, and removed an old [unused] freezer from my basement, and are now sending me a check for $60!)

Calling them was one profitable phone call!
Title: Re: LED light bulbs
Post by: ProfWinkie on July 07, 2014, 08:16:39 AM
I am 100% Cree LED. Bought them onlne at a major cost savings. 100% happy