The Money Mustache Community
Learning, Sharing, and Teaching => Reader Recommendations => Topic started by: Rasputin on January 07, 2019, 12:29:16 PM
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What’s everyone’s thoughts on this guy? He seems to make sense. Any other authors you guys and gals would recommend for overall budgeting and getting one's sh*t together?
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Listen to Dave Ramsey's debt payoff advice (more or less), but end here. Don't listen to any of his investing advice.
Other good resources.
Good website about investing
https://jlcollinsnh.com/stock-series/ (https://jlcollinsnh.com/stock-series/)
Good book about mindset
Your Money or Your Life (https://www.amazon.com/Your-Money-Life-Transforming-Relationship/dp/0143115766/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1546889620&sr=1-1-spons&keywords=your+money+or+your+life&psc=1)
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From my (limited) DR experience, he seems to have a target audience. In my opinion, that target audience is consumers who are in debt.
His content is a great starting place for people to get their Net Worth up to 0.
That being said, here are a few things that I (and others on here) disagree with:
1) Debt snowball vs debt avalanche
2) Paying off a house (debatable)
3) Investing
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Dave Ramsey is a great place to start. Following his plan will definitely help most people with their financial situation especially if you have debt. Treat Dave Ramsey as the high school level. You need to educate yourself to move to higher levels of financial lieteracy and the MMM forum is a great place to start.
The thing I like about Dave, which some people here disagree with is that he doesn't always focus on the math, but on changing behaviour which is good for newbies.
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From my (limited) DR experience, he seems to have a target audience. In my opinion, that target audience is consumers who are in debt.
His content is a great starting place for people to get their Net Worth up to 0.
That being said, here are a few things that I (and others on here) disagree with:
1) Debt snowball vs debt avalanche
2) Paying off a house (debatable)
3) Investing
I am $80K in debt with student loans and another $20K in a car. I don’t really have much more money each month to pay down my loans. I need to unf*ck myself and soon. I’m 42 and would like to impregnate my wife, but kids are expensive too.
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From my (limited) DR experience, he seems to have a target audience. In my opinion, that target audience is consumers who are in debt.
His content is a great starting place for people to get their Net Worth up to 0.
That being said, here are a few things that I (and others on here) disagree with:
1) Debt snowball vs debt avalanche
2) Paying off a house (debatable)
3) Investing
What would be the fundamental difference between the debt snowball method vs. debt avalanche? On the surface, they appear to be very similar methodologies
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From my (limited) DR experience, he seems to have a target audience. In my opinion, that target audience is consumers who are in debt.
His content is a great starting place for people to get their Net Worth up to 0.
That being said, here are a few things that I (and others on here) disagree with:
1) Debt snowball vs debt avalanche
2) Paying off a house (debatable)
3) Investing
What would be the fundamental difference between the debt snowball method vs. debt avalanche? On the surface, they appear to be very similar methodologies
The debt snowball is applying all extra money toward paying off your debts from smallest balance to largest. Once the smallest balance is paid, you then apply your initial extra money amount plus that (now free) smallest debt payment to the next largest balance, etc. This is nice because you have a constant series of small accomplishments building into the bigger goal of paying off all debt.
The debt avalanche is applying all extra money toward paying off your debts from highest interest debt to lowest, in order to save the most money in interest along your path.
Which one is best for you depends on your personality as well as how high interest your debts are. With both plans the goal is to keep the dollar amount of money being put toward debt month to month the same, or to increase it, but either gives you more strategy and purpose than just throwing your extra money at whichever debt is worrying you the most any given month.
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Just to be clear, putting emotion aside, the debt avalanche method comes out ahead (based on money in your pocket) reguardless of how high or low the interest rates are.
It’s simple, you put what you can into the debt with the highest interest rate until it’s paid off. Then you move onto whatever has the next highest interest rate until that’s paid off. And on and on.
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Just to be clear, putting emotion aside, the debt avalanche method comes out ahead (based on money in your pocket) reguardless of how high or low the interest rates are.
It’s simple, you put what you can into the debt with the highest interest rate until it’s paid off. Then you move onto whatever has the next highest interest rate until that’s paid off. And on and on.
I knew I forgot something. Dang. Yes, debt avalanche always comes out ahead monetarily, sometimes by a tiny bit and sometimes by a lot, but always by something.
Some people need the feeling of accomplishment from paying off the "easy" smaller loans first to keep them engaged and positive about the process, otherwise they might quit the whole process because they're discouraged about how long a larger debt takes to get rid of. That's the only reason to choose a debt snowball rather than an avalanche - if you think you'll quit without the mileposts of getting rid of an entire category of debt relatively quickly.
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By all accounts, he's a good place to start (particularly if you're in debt). And, even if you don't agree with everything he says, doing something is better than doing nothing.
I've heard other people say he's very preachy but it's kind of his shtick. He ties parts of his methods back to Christianity. Not that that's necessarily a bad thing but it can turn some people off.
The JL Collins and YMOYL recommendations above are spot-on.
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By all accounts, he's a good place to start (particularly if you're in debt). And, even if you don't agree with everything he says, doing something is better than doing nothing.
I've heard other people say he's very preachy but it's kind of his shtick. He ties parts of his methods back to Christianity. Not that that's necessarily a bad thing but it can turn some people off.
The JL Collins and YMOYL recommendations above are spot-on.
His preaching is a bit annoying. I expect him to start dancing with snakes or speaking in tongues. I order the YMOYL book on amazon. I want to retire at a normal age with a bit of coin in my pocket.
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Dave Ramsey is solid. There's no one better at getting folks out of a debt and on a budget. His advice falls off pretty hard once you get to the investing stage (especially for FIRE folks). Still, when I find someone interested in getting their finances together, I point them to Dave first. He just has a great way of getting through all the noise and convincing folks that financial fitness is a worthy, achievable cause.
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Thanks for the clarification everyone. I think what I'm doing currently falls into the snowball method...but my eventual goal will be to shift to the avalanche method. Coincidentally, my highest interest debts are also some of my smaller debts (credit cards)...so I'm knocking those out first before tackling my larger, lower interest debts (student loans).
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Just to be clear, putting emotion aside, the debt avalanche method comes out ahead (based on money in your pocket) reguardless of how high or low the interest rates are.
It’s simple, you put what you can into the debt with the highest interest rate until it’s paid off. Then you move onto whatever has the next highest interest rate until that’s paid off. And on and on.
I think Dave's retort to this is twofold: the psychology of giving you some quick wins (with small debts being more achievable goals) and the fact that his method demands you will be done in about 2 years, which minimizes the compounding advantage of the debt avalanche. As was said before, psychology over the raw, idealized numbers.
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Dave Ramsey is solid. There's no one better at getting folks out of a debt and on a budget. His advice falls off pretty hard once you get to the investing stage (especially for FIRE folks). Still, when I find someone interested in getting their finances together, I point them to Dave first. He just has a great way of getting through all the noise and convincing folks that financial fitness is a worthy, achievable cause.
Who do you recommend for investment information? I currently am only in a Vanguard target date fund but am always looking to improve, develop some passive income, etc.
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Listen to Dave Ramsey's debt payoff advice (more or less), but end here. Don't listen to any of his investing advice.
Other good resources.
Good website about investing
https://jlcollinsnh.com/stock-series/ (https://jlcollinsnh.com/stock-series/)
Good book about mindset
Your Money or Your Life (https://www.amazon.com/Your-Money-Life-Transforming-Relationship/dp/0143115766/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1546889620&sr=1-1-spons&keywords=your+money+or+your+life&psc=1)
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Would anyone here move their money (IRA) out of the 2045 fund and into VTSAX for long term investing?
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Would anyone here move their money (IRA) out of the 2045 fund and into VTSAX for long term investing?
I will not make any investment advice to you but I will say that I am 27 and happily invest in VTSAX in my IRA account (and my taxable account too).
It's important to look at your entire portfolio and make sure that what you put in your IRA fits in well.
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Dave Ramsey is solid. There's no one better at getting folks out of a debt and on a budget. His advice falls off pretty hard once you get to the investing stage (especially for FIRE folks). Still, when I find someone interested in getting their finances together, I point them to Dave first. He just has a great way of getting through all the noise and convincing folks that financial fitness is a worthy, achievable cause.
Who do you recommend for investment information? I currently am only in a Vanguard target date fund but am always looking to improve, develop some passive income, etc.
I've been building out my investment portfolio for only the last year, so my advice is still growing. Honestly, though, Mr. Money Mustache seems solid if you're investing for FIRE reasons (and if you're not investing for those reasons...why not?)
What's that advice? In a nut shell, I've put all my 401Ks, IRAs, and individual investments going toward VTI and VXUS with an 80/20 split respectively. I plan to transition those to Mutual funds this year, since they'll all be over $10,000 and can transition into Admiral shares (also makes automating the whole thing easier).
If you're looking on advice for things like one-off stocks and timing the market and such, I'm not playing in that realm. I may at some point in the future, but for now I'd like to get my general investing solidly moving toward FIRE while getting a few personal items upgraded (I just bought a home and would like to furnish it!)
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I plan to transition those to Mutual funds this year, since they'll all be over $10,000 and can transition into Admiral shares
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FYI vanguard has recently reduced the minimum from 10k to 3k for many (all?) funds.
VTSAX can now be had for $3,000.
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Listen to Dave Ramsey's debt payoff advice (more or less), but end here. Don't listen to any of his investing advice.
Other good resources.
Good website about investing
https://jlcollinsnh.com/stock-series/ (https://jlcollinsnh.com/stock-series/)
Good book about mindset
Your Money or Your Life (https://www.amazon.com/Your-Money-Life-Transforming-Relationship/dp/0143115766/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1546889620&sr=1-1-spons&keywords=your+money+or+your+life&psc=1)
YUP! Totally agree.
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I plan to transition those to Mutual funds this year, since they'll all be over $10,000 and can transition into Admiral shares
...
FYI vanguard has recently reduced the minimum from 10k to 3k for many (all?) funds.
VTSAX can now be had for $3,000.
Would I incur any fees if I took $3,000 of my 2045 fund and bought VTSAX?
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Would I incur any fees if I took $3,000 of my 2045 fund and bought VTSAX?
No fees and as long as it is in your IRA, no taxes either.
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I plan to transition those to Mutual funds this year, since they'll all be over $10,000 and can transition into Admiral shares
...
FYI vanguard has recently reduced the minimum from 10k to 3k for many (all?) funds.
VTSAX can now be had for $3,000.
Good to know, Thanks!!
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Happy to help!
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I listen to DR in the car every day. I generally like the show, and he seems like a swell guy.
I know he takes a lot of criticism for focusing on psychology over accepted financial wisdom. For example, he tells people to pay off debts smallest-to-largest, rather than highest-interest to lowest-interest. You can find plenty of hate for this particular approach, and others. But he argues (and I think he may be right) that this approach is likely to be more successful when taking human nature into account. After all, people in debt aren't there because they don't understand interest rates.
His rants against debt culture are spectacular. I'm always hoping for a good rant.
But I have a couple of problems with him.
The main thing is that he always finds ways to work his sponsors into whatever he's taking about. Like, if someone's asking about insurance, the answer will contain a recommendation for Zander Insurance. I get it that they need to pay the bills, but other talk hosts manage to read their copy during the breaks. It gives the whole thing the flavor of an infomercial. Throw in the occasionaly religious angle, and it starts to sound a little cultish as well.
He also bugs me with his frequent misuse of statistics. "Our studies show that most millionaires pay off their house in seven years ..." (ok, fine so far) "... therefore paying off your house in seven years is the best way to become a millionaire." (wait, what? For a self-professed "math nerd", he needs to brush up on Bayesian inference.)
I am among those who doubt that his portfolio has reliably averaged 12% return as he claims.
One difference between DR's philosophy and MMM's, is that DR is actively opposed to early retirement. That's a philosophical argument, I suppose.
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I am $80K in debt with student loans and another $20K in a car. I don’t really have much more money each month to pay down my loans. I need to unf*ck myself and soon. I’m 42 and would like to impregnate my wife, but kids are expensive too.
DR's advice is not to delay marriage or children because of finances. That opinion is, obviously, controversial.
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I am $80K in debt with student loans and another $20K in a car. I don’t really have much more money each month to pay down my loans. I need to unf*ck myself and soon. I’m 42 and would like to impregnate my wife, but kids are expensive too.
DR's advice is not to delay marriage or children because of finances. That opinion is, obviously, controversial.
I’m married, but I’ve been pulling out. I’ll probably put a kid in her stomach soon. I got “Total Money Makeover” from the library. I’m making changes. Still plugging away. I guess it just takes time to become a rich baller like Dave is. I bet he drives a Benz with spinner and hydraulics.
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I am $80K in debt with student loans and another $20K in a car. I don’t really have much more money each month to pay down my loans. I need to unf*ck myself and soon. I’m 42 and would like to impregnate my wife, but kids are expensive too.
DR's advice is not to delay marriage or children because of finances. That opinion is, obviously, controversial.
I’m married, but I’ve been pulling out. I’ll probably put a kid in her stomach soon. I got “Total Money Makeover” from the library. I’m making changes. Still plugging away. I guess it just takes time to become a rich baller like Dave is. I bet he drives a Benz with spinner and hydraulics.
That's a weird thing to say. You don't have the ability to put a fully formed kid inside the stomach. Your semen goes into her uterus, not a kid in the stomach.
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ANYway,
Homo economicus might come out ahead with the debt avalanche, but most people stop at econ 101 and never get to the meat of behavioral economics, which is now graying a bit. Kahnemann in his book thinking fast and slow elucidated that people don't act optimally and that's why ramsey espouses the behavioral side as opposed to the logical side.
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I am $80K in debt with student loans and another $20K in a car. I don’t really have much more money each month to pay down my loans. I need to unf*ck myself and soon. I’m 42 and would like to impregnate my wife, but kids are expensive too.
DR's advice is not to delay marriage or children because of finances. That opinion is, obviously, controversial.
I’m married, but I’ve been pulling out. I’ll probably put a kid in her stomach soon. I got “Total Money Makeover” from the library. I’m making changes. Still plugging away. I guess it just takes time to become a rich baller like Dave is. I bet he drives a Benz with spinner and hydraulics.
That's a weird thing to say. You don't have the ability to put a fully formed kid inside the stomach. Your semen goes into her uterus, not a kid in the stomach.
I don't know if that is the way DR talks but I can see the sarcasm dripping down the page.... At the very least, I'm guessing the reference to pulling out is a stab at the religious convictions of DR.
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I am $80K in debt with student loans and another $20K in a car. I don’t really have much more money each month to pay down my loans. I need to unf*ck myself and soon. I’m 42 and would like to impregnate my wife, but kids are expensive too.
DR's advice is not to delay marriage or children because of finances. That opinion is, obviously, controversial.
I’m married, but I’ve been pulling out. I’ll probably put a kid in her stomach soon. I got “Total Money Makeover” from the library. I’m making changes. Still plugging away. I guess it just takes time to become a rich baller like Dave is. I bet he drives a Benz with spinner and hydraulics.
That's a weird thing to say. You don't have the ability to put a fully formed kid inside the stomach. Your semen goes into her uterus, not a kid in the stomach.
Is that how it works. Damn. I’ve been doing it wrong.
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ANYway,
Homo economicus might come out ahead with the debt avalanche, but most people stop at econ 101 and never get to the meat of behavioral economics, which is now graying a bit. Kahnemann in his book thinking fast and slow elucidated that people don't act optimally and that's why ramsey espouses the behavioral side as opposed to the logical side.
Does the debt avalanche have you making larger payments to the debt with higher interest or balance?
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I've been listening to Dave Ramsey for about ten years. I disagree with him on some points, but we've actually taught his FPU seminar out of our home.
I like what he says about debt--pay it off before you invest. IMHO it doesn't really matter which method you use to pay it down, snowball or avalanche, just stop investing, stop paying for anything extra, and throw all the extra money you have into your debt to pay it down within two years. If it were me, I'd put one of those fundraising thermometer charts on my fridge door and fill it in every time I chopped off another $5k or so.
He's great about budgeting and I think his money advice to married couples is solid, also. It works for us, anyway.
About the baby, Dave would say: just get your wife knocked up and don't worry about it. Children are more important than money. Once she's pregnant, put the debt snowball on pause and pile up money in cash in case something goes south with the pregnancy or the birth. Once everybody's home and fine, throw the pile of cash you accumulated during the pregnancy (just in case something went wrong--you'd have cash to bail yourself out and wouldn't have to take on debt) on the debt and keep going with your debt snowball.
Stop investing. Don't even think about investing.
All of this is advice I whole heartedly agree with. The stuff about Zander insurance, his ELPs (endorsed local providers), the mythical 12% rate of return on mutual funds, etc...you can ignore all that. Steps 1-4 of his "baby steps" are solid.
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ANYway,
Homo economicus might come out ahead with the debt avalanche, but most people stop at econ 101 and never get to the meat of behavioral economics, which is now graying a bit. Kahnemann in his book thinking fast and slow elucidated that people don't act optimally and that's why ramsey espouses the behavioral side as opposed to the logical side.
Does the debt avalanche have you making larger payments to the debt with higher interest or balance?
@Rasputin the Debt Avalanche (or Snowball or Dave Ramsey method) has you start paying by paying the smallest balance first, then the next smallest, and so on until all debts are paid. He argues two main points for advocating this method:
1. The amount of interest accrued by the highest interest payment is negligible because of the significantly higher likelihood of a person to stick with it until they are debt free.
2. The emotional impact of paying off a debt, cutting up a credit card, no longer owing a college debt payment, etc. is the boost most people need to persevere in paying off their debts; without it most families will give up before their debts are paid and go back to their old lifestyle.
Ultimately, I agree with him completely. For most people, the small additional interest paid is not going to make a meaningful impact on their future and the risk of families giving up before their debts are completely paid is worth the slightly increased cost.
A better way to think about the two methods against each other:
1. The higher-interest first method is the most financially responsible method and will, over the course of a person's life, ultimately save them the most money which they can then use to invest.
2. The smallest balance method is the most emotionally effective method and will, over the course of a person's life, more likely allow them to become debt free and save them considerably more interest than if they had tried the other method, given up, and then transitioned back to making minimum payments and living paycheck-to-paycheck.
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We have lots of opinions:
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/what-is-your-opinion-of-dave-ramsey/
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/ask-a-mustachian/is-dave-ramsey-a-bad-word-here/
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/dave-ramsey-advice-that-pisses-me-off/
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/ask-a-mustachian/bullied-out-of-dave-ramsey-forum/
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/investor-alley/coming-from-the-school-of-dave-ramsey/
http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/05/19/mr-money-mustache-vs-dave-ramsey/
FWIW, the forum's search engines are um, underpowered. Fortunately, there's google.
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FWIW, the forum's search engines are um, underpowered. Fortunately, there's google.
I have a cure for that: https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/forum-information-faqs/how-to-search-the-forum/
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One thing that reading Total Money Makeover did for me was to convince me to start creating a budget and tracking my spending.
I found I enjoyed it and it actually gave me a feeling of security to know that I had money set aside for all my bills.
I used to just look at my checking account, see some money and think oh I can buy this or that. Then, a bill I had forgotten about
would show up and cause havoc.
It's been over ten years and I still live on a budget. I now own my own business and work from home and I couldn't do it
without the money skills of budgeting and tracking.
Side note:
The endless arguing over the order of paying off debt is pointless to me. Dave knows the math, but he couldn't get people
to stick to the program when he just used math. It wasn't until he focused on the psychology that people got on board and that's
when he realized people need small wins, in the beginning, to get motivated. I don't think he really cares if people start with high-interest debt first.
I think he just saw more people succeeded with the debt snowball method.
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Side note:
The endless arguing over the order of paying off debt is pointless to me. Dave knows the math, but he couldn't get people
to stick to the program when he just used math. It wasn't until he focused on the psychology that people got on board and that's
when he realized people need small wins, in the beginning, to get motivated. I don't think he really cares if people start with high-interest debt first.
I think he just saw more people succeeded with the debt snowball method.
Dave generally expects all your unsecured debts to be cleared up in two years. He correctly points out that on this schedule, the difference in interest rates is likely minimal. This also comes out in his advice on refinancing: do it if you want, but don't fool yourself into thinking you've made any progress.
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My first introduction to personal finance was Dave Ramsey at age 13. Got me through college debt free. The only place I really got screwed over was that i followed his no credit card rule, and ended up with no credit score at all. It turns out it can be hard to find a place to live with no credit score. I offered one apartment manager a years rent in cash up front and still got turned down :(
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Side note:
The endless arguing over the order of paying off debt is pointless to me. Dave knows the math, but he couldn't get people
to stick to the program when he just used math. It wasn't until he focused on the psychology that people got on board and that's
when he realized people need small wins, in the beginning, to get motivated. I don't think he really cares if people start with high-interest debt first.
I think he just saw more people succeeded with the debt snowball method.
Dave generally expects all your unsecured debts to be cleared up in two years. He correctly points out that on this schedule, the difference in interest rates is likely minimal. This also comes out in his advice on refinancing: do it if you want, but don't fool yourself into thinking you've made any progress.
I have $80,000 in student loans. No way I can clear that in 2 years
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Side note:
The endless arguing over the order of paying off debt is pointless to me. Dave knows the math, but he couldn't get people
to stick to the program when he just used math. It wasn't until he focused on the psychology that people got on board and that's
when he realized people need small wins, in the beginning, to get motivated. I don't think he really cares if people start with high-interest debt first.
I think he just saw more people succeeded with the debt snowball method.
Dave generally expects all your unsecured debts to be cleared up in two years. He correctly points out that on this schedule, the difference in interest rates is likely minimal. This also comes out in his advice on refinancing: do it if you want, but don't fool yourself into thinking you've made any progress.
I have $80,000 in student loans. No way I can clear that in 2 years
Why not?
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Side note:
The endless arguing over the order of paying off debt is pointless to me. Dave knows the math, but he couldn't get people
to stick to the program when he just used math. It wasn't until he focused on the psychology that people got on board and that's
when he realized people need small wins, in the beginning, to get motivated. I don't think he really cares if people start with high-interest debt first.
I think he just saw more people succeeded with the debt snowball method.
Dave generally expects all your unsecured debts to be cleared up in two years. He correctly points out that on this schedule, the difference in interest rates is likely minimal. This also comes out in his advice on refinancing: do it if you want, but don't fool yourself into thinking you've made any progress.
I have $80,000 in student loans. No way I can clear that in 2 years
Why not?
That’s $3300 a month. I clear $3700 after tax.
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Side note:
The endless arguing over the order of paying off debt is pointless to me. Dave knows the math, but he couldn't get people
to stick to the program when he just used math. It wasn't until he focused on the psychology that people got on board and that's
when he realized people need small wins, in the beginning, to get motivated. I don't think he really cares if people start with high-interest debt first.
I think he just saw more people succeeded with the debt snowball method.
Dave generally expects all your unsecured debts to be cleared up in two years. He correctly points out that on this schedule, the difference in interest rates is likely minimal. This also comes out in his advice on refinancing: do it if you want, but don't fool yourself into thinking you've made any progress.
I have $80,000 in student loans. No way I can clear that in 2 years
Why not?
That’s $3300 a month. I clear $3700 after tax.
Then increase your income! What did you go to school for that cost you at least $80K that you are making $3,700 after tax? If you can't increase your income then deliver pizzas, drive for Uber, etc... That's what Dave would say. I have seen people do some crazy things to wipe out their debt when they are intentional about it.
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I have $80,000 in student loans. No way I can clear that in 2 years
Seriously, his advice to you would be to deliver pizzas at night. This is where I get a little skeptical.
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I have $80,000 in student loans. No way I can clear that in 2 years
Seriously, his advice to you would be to deliver pizzas at night. This is where I get a little skeptical.
The main point is to be, in Dave's words, "gazelle intense." Meaning, focused as if your life depended on it, because in a lot of ways it does: if you don't get on a good track financially, soon, you will have a long, miserable time with this problem staring you in the face. Whether your action is to take an easy-to-get side job, move back in with your family, take a leap to a better career, sell a large number of accumulated goods, etc. the point is that whatever you think is "all you can do," there is always something more you could do--you are choosing not to. Not that this is an easy choice, but it always is.
Dave is working with people who have had issue dealing with definitions of "normal," and have gotten themselves into trouble. He needs to wake these people up somehow--the shock value has a purpose. And if you relax, you could easily relapse to prior habits. I think that's part of why he wants people to be in a hurry--so you get to the other side, before you give up.
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I think Dave Ramsey is good for a lot folks, if they actually follow the plan. I know people that have been regular listeners for years, decades even, yet they still say their goal is to pay off their credit card debt. The mortage is a bigger nut to crack, and the only people I meet who've paid off the mortage are near or beyond traditional retirement. FWIW, I followed his plan through step seven. That was back in 2007 and I decided to move on to other things.
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ANYway,
Homo economicus might come out ahead with the debt avalanche, but most people stop at econ 101 and never get to the meat of behavioral economics, which is now graying a bit. Kahnemann in his book thinking fast and slow elucidated that people don't act optimally and that's why ramsey espouses the behavioral side as opposed to the logical side.
Does the debt avalanche have you making larger payments to the debt with higher interest or balance?
Highest interest rate.
Debt snowball makes it a behavior problem.
Economists used to think that the most logical path would be what people would take. Paying off higher interest loans makes sense mathematically.
I guess the assumption that Ramsey makes is that people in debt aren't that good at math to begin with; the newer economics of human behavior show that the vast majority of humans are not homo economicus.
I'm not married to either idea but I paid off my student loans and mortgage using the debt snowball.
MMM's accountant Keith from the Wealthyaccountant.com was a ramsey ELP. I doubt that he would say that you should follow the ramsey method past baby step 2.
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From my (limited) DR experience, he seems to have a target audience. In my opinion, that target audience is consumers who are in debt.
His content is a great starting place for people to get their Net Worth up to 0.
That being said, here are a few things that I (and others on here) disagree with:
1) Debt snowball vs debt avalanche
2) Paying off a house (debatable)
3) Investing
I am $80K in debt with student loans and another $20K in a car. I don’t really have much more money each month to pay down my loans. I need to unf*ck myself and soon. I’m 42 and would like to impregnate my wife, but kids are expensive too.
Create a case study. People have gotten out of debt with much more than you. But also, be brave. Maybe it means selling the car, take a hit but get what you can afford in cash? Make sure the SLs are at the lowest rates. Attack your expenses. Also, have that kid now than wait.
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Just to be clear, putting emotion aside, the debt avalanche method comes out ahead (based on money in your pocket) reguardless of how high or low the interest rates are.
It’s simple, you put what you can into the debt with the highest interest rate until it’s paid off. Then you move onto whatever has the next highest interest rate until that’s paid off. And on and on.
I think Dave's retort to this is twofold: the psychology of giving you some quick wins (with small debts being more achievable goals) and the fact that his method demands you will be done in about 2 years, which minimizes the compounding advantage of the debt avalanche. As was said before, psychology over the raw, idealized numbers.
I haven't finished reading the thread, but the snowball also gives you more cash flow flexibility than the avalanche. As you eliminate debts, your snowball grows, b which allows you to better deal with unexpected expenses without incurring further debt.
Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
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His advice is generally okay, and can help the financially hopeless get their head above water.
His advice, however, will not be particularly valuable to those who are naturally frugal and are already investing.
His jihad against EVER using a credit card is ridiculous. I'm pretty sure that for a multimillionaire who pays his credit card in full every month, there is nothing wrong with my using a credit card, but Dave would say that millionaire should NEVER use a credit card.
Also, I can do without the religious proselytizing.
He closes every show with “Remember, there’s ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that’s to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.”
Really, Dave? This atheist multimillionaire seems to be doing pretty well without "walking with Jesus."
I'm pretty sure there are plenty of other financially secure atheists, Jews, Hindus, Muslims, followers of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, Taoists, etc who are finding plenty of financial peace without walking with Jesus.
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His advice is generally okay, and can help the financially hopeless get their head above water.
His advice, however, will not be particularly valuable to those who are naturally frugal and are already investing.
His jihad against EVER using a credit card is ridiculous. I'm pretty sure that for a multimillionaire who pays his credit card in full every month, there is nothing wrong with my using a credit card, but Dave would say that millionaire should NEVER use a credit card.
Also, I can do without the religious proselytizing.
He closes every show with “Remember, there’s ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that’s to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.”
Really, Dave? This atheist multimillionaire seems to be doing pretty well without "walking with Jesus."
I'm pretty sure there are plenty of other financially secure atheists, Jews, Hindus, Muslims, followers of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, Taoists, etc who are finding plenty of financial peace without walking with Jesus.
He knows his audience, he's a smart businessman. His advice will definitely help people. I don't mind his credit card advice even though I don't follow it. Too many people don't have self control.
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@Rasputin
How to clear $80,000 in debt in to years.
Increase income and reduce expenses to yield $3,300 a month:
Post a case study - whittle down every conceivable expense - trim all the fat (stop eating out/takeout, all entertainment is free)
Get a roommate
Get two roomates
Consider a job with free housing (residence director at a college is one example)
Work on weekends
Sell stuff
Create something to sell on Etsy
Comb Craigslist Free Listings and Buy Nothing Groups on FaceBook for everything you need
Barter a skill for something (i.e. I'll rake your leaves if you'll make me dinner once a week)
The above ideas are just ideas - get creative - don't be a "help rejecting complainer" - get out of the problem and into the solution. Maybe you end up paying off your loans in three years instead of two? Don't just dismiss this goal as impossible.
Practice gratitude! Chances are you have "enough" - you have enough housing and clothes and comfort. Check out some YouTube videos of people living out of their cars - it sure is a wake up call for me! Here's one to get you started!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0EoyTzcFOI
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0EoyTzcFOI) Check out Dee's can do, problem solving attitude!
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The only problem I have with Dave Ramsey is he is to optimistic in this math and compound growth rates.
His exact words on the show the other day
"The average car payment is $506, invest this from age 30-60 and you will have 5.7 million dollars... "
The math on that is around 18.1% CAGR...
He is to optimistic knowing people won't do that numbers.
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Here are my thoughts in terms of where he's with respect to financial education. Dave Ramsey is good for the people from the kindergarten to junior high level of knowledge. Once you reach that stage self education you need to optimize with some Mustachian principles, start reading and educating yourself, listening to podcasts etc.
But he has a LOT of people that are at this level of knowledge, so he's helping a lot of people.
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About a year ago, I started watching Dave's videos for entertainment. For his audience, the getting out of debt advice and list of things to do (baby steps) is a good one.
His audience: Has lots of debt, doesn't know why, doesn't understand things like credit card interest, can't understand simple finance.
His plan: Do THESE STEPS, which are attainable. For example, one step is to get a $1000 emergency fund. Why's that good? Because the people who need to follow a step to do that have likely never had $1000 for an emergency in their life.
Is snowball the best? Of course not. Us engineers, mathematicians and other people who understand math easily prove that. But his audience isn't deciding between snowball and avalanche. They're deciding whether to try snowball or go buy some lottery tickets with any extra money......and if they get a winner, put that money right back into lottery tickets.
I really like where someone comes on and they have $30k car loan, a mortgage that's 2 months behind, just lost their job and are asking if they should go in with their brother to buy a $300k rental property. He doesn't pull any punches and lets the caller know with absolutely no doubt that their idea is stupid and that they need to follow the steps and get out of debt.
But stop at that point. His independent providers are nothing but a cash cow for him. This includes all of them. Insurance, real estate, financial advisors. He passes leads to his providers based on closest zip code. He does zero checking on his providers. His providers are nothing more than businesses looking for leads. Each lead costs money if they generate revenue, plus there's a monthly fee for providers. The FAs tend to push people to Edward Jones-like garbage investments with loads and high ERs, plus, of course high AUM.
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About a year ago, I started watching Dave's videos for entertainment. For his audience, the getting out of debt advice and list of things to do (baby steps) is a good one.
His audience: Has lots of debt, doesn't know why, doesn't understand things like credit card interest, can't understand simple finance.
His plan: Do THESE STEPS, which are attainable. For example, one step is to get a $1000 emergency fund. Why's that good? Because the people who need to follow a step to do that have likely never had $1000 for an emergency in their life.
Is snowball the best? Of course not. Us engineers, mathematicians and other people who understand math easily prove that. But his audience isn't deciding between snowball and avalanche. They're deciding whether to try snowball or go buy some lottery tickets with any extra money......and if they get a winner, put that money right back into lottery tickets.
I really like where someone comes on and they have $30k car loan, a mortgage that's 2 months behind, just lost their job and are asking if they should go in with their brother to buy a $300k rental property. He doesn't pull any punches and lets the caller know with absolutely no doubt that their idea is stupid and that they need to follow the steps and get out of debt.
But stop at that point. His independent providers are nothing but a cash cow for him. This includes all of them. Insurance, real estate, financial advisors. He passes leads to his providers based on closest zip code. He does zero checking on his providers. His providers are nothing more than businesses looking for leads. Each lead costs money if they generate revenue, plus there's a monthly fee for providers. The FAs tend to push people to Edward Jones-like garbage investments with loads and high ERs, plus, of course high AUM.
I generally agree. His stuff is fine for motivating financial basket cases to get out of debt, and maybe motivating them to do more afterward. I've seen examples where following his advice has pulled the financially hopeless out of debt.
But his investment advice is shaky, at best. He doesn't recommend no load index funds/ETFs probably because he and his advisers can't make money from them. So he twists himself into knots trying to justify high expense managed funds as the path to success.
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I agree, his investment advice is weak and he does loose credibility with his smartvestor advisors.
I do enjoy listening to him though, he entertaining and offers some pretty good advice to get people out of debt.
However, is it just me or all of the other Ramsey personalities terrible. When they sit in for him, I automatically delete the podcast. His daughter is the worst, she has zero credibility except being his daughter.
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Same. I can't stand the "Ramsey personalities". It's like they're a bunch of yes-men sycophants. I can't get rid of the podcasts with them fast enough.
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I've tried so hard to like Chris Hogan. He has a good background, the greatest voice for radio/podcasts imaginable, and focuses on a great topic (retirement). But there is zero substance in anything he teaches. It's regurgitating DR's baby steps and telling people to go to a sponsored investment adviser who will load you down with fees.
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I agree, his investment advice is weak and he does loose credibility with his smartvestor advisors.
I do enjoy listening to him though, he entertaining and offers some pretty good advice to get people out of debt.
However, is it just me or all of the other Ramsey personalities terrible. When they sit in for him, I automatically delete the podcast. His daughter is the worst, she has zero credibility except being his daughter.
Seconded. Whenever I hear someone other than him doing the intro to the show I skip outta there!
I think like what DadJokes and englishteacheralex said, it would be better if they were substantially different than DR. But they just re-iterate the baby steps with their individual flair. Hogan's is retirement, Rachel Cruze is being content with your life, and I can't even remember the other ones' names.
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I got the "Everyday Millionaire" book out of the library last week. I was kind of excited because I thought it would be like "The Millionaire Next Door" only updated.
Gah. It was awful. It was like listening to the show with Chris Hogan as a guest. No substance at all, just platitude after platitude. I really wanted to like it, too. "Millionaire Next Door" is one of my favorite books of all time, and I love all the sequels, too, even though they're basically the same thing over and over. Thomas Stanley's voice as an author is kind of quirky and really, really nerdy, but something about it is so loveable.
Chris Hogan...not the same. More sycophantic Dave-isms. I'm ok with all the dumb, tired dad jokes/metaphors/analogies/pep talks when Dave makes them, but they're not good enough to be recycled by someone else. Super disappointing.
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I got the "Everyday Millionaire" book out of the library last week. I was kind of excited because I thought it would be like "The Millionaire Next Door" only updated.
Gah. It was awful. It was like listening to the show with Chris Hogan as a guest. No substance at all, just platitude after platitude. I really wanted to like it, too. "Millionaire Next Door" is one of my favorite books of all time, and I love all the sequels, too, even though they're basically the same thing over and over. Thomas Stanley's voice as an author is kind of quirky and really, really nerdy, but something about it is so loveable.
Chris Hogan...not the same. More sycophantic Dave-isms. I'm ok with all the dumb, tired dad jokes/metaphors/analogies/pep talks when Dave makes them, but they're not good enough to be recycled by someone else. Super disappointing.
Can you provide any examples? I thought about borrowing the book from somewhere, but kept hearing Dave say on his show "we didn't write this book for nerds, so there is no statistical analysis. Only motivation" and that was kind of a red flag for me.
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I just flew through it because it was so redundant...I can't even remember it. It was chapter after chapter of...Here's what millionaires do! They save money! Also they don't spend that much money! They show a lot of commitment towards things! Most of them just consistently put money away in their employee-sponsored retirement vehicle! They didn't inherit their wealth! Anybody can do that!
Each chapter was an entire chapter devoted to one of those topics. Lots of little stories about various millionaires doing boring millionaire things. "Stacy and Joe were an accountant and a research scientist. They put 15% into their 401(k)s and what do you know, they retired with 3.5 million dollars when they were 57. Joe said he never bought a pair of jeans that cost more than $30. Stacy is excited to go on a cruise to the Bahamas in the fall. Yay!" Sort of like how the debt free screams are basically the same thing over and over?
Why have I been listening to this show for 10+ years...arg starting to question my commute time listening choices. My husband mocks me relentlessly for this. It's kind of just white noise.
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I probably listen to his podcasts 3 or 4 times a weak. I do find him entertaining and truthfully I haven't found a podcast I like better even though I've tried. Maybe someone can recommend something that's better.
1. Tim Ferris, I really want to like his podcast, but I just can't seem to stay interested.
2. Choose FI, it's pretty good, but at times kind of boring.
3. Planet Money - it's not bad, interesting but random topics.
4. Freakonomics - pretty good, but not a lot of episodes
5. Mad Fientist - All he does is bring on other podcasters, and always sounds stoned. I do listen to most of them though.
6. Afford anything - she's got an amazing voice, and fairly interesting but not as entertaining as Dave.
7. Etc..
There's probably a separate thread on this..
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I probably listen to his podcasts 3 or 4 times a weak. I do find him entertaining and truthfully I haven't found a podcast I like better even though I've tried. Maybe someone can recommend something that's better.
1. Tim Ferris, I really want to like his podcast, but I just can't seem to stay interested.
2. Choose FI, it's pretty good, but at times kind of boring.
3. Planet Money - it's not bad, interesting but random topics.
4. Freakonomics - pretty good, but not a lot of episodes
5. Mad Fientist - All he does is bring on other podcasters, and always sounds stoned. I do listen to most of them though.
6. Afford anything - she's got an amazing voice, and fairly interesting but not as entertaining as Dave.
7. Etc..
There's probably a separate thread on this..
Check out Bigger Pockets Money
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I probably listen to his podcasts 3 or 4 times a weak. I do find him entertaining and truthfully I haven't found a podcast I like better even though I've tried. Maybe someone can recommend something that's better.
1. Tim Ferris, I really want to like his podcast, but I just can't seem to stay interested.
2. Choose FI, it's pretty good, but at times kind of boring.
3. Planet Money - it's not bad, interesting but random topics.
4. Freakonomics - pretty good, but not a lot of episodes
5. Mad Fientist - All he does is bring on other podcasters, and always sounds stoned. I do listen to most of them though.
6. Afford anything - she's got an amazing voice, and fairly interesting but not as entertaining as Dave.
7. Etc..
There's probably a separate thread on this..
Dave is certainly entertaining, I'll give him that.
I simply haven't learned anything new from him in years. I know you listed it as boring, but my favorite has been ChooseFI, simply because I feel like I learn something new every episode.
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I probably listen to his podcasts 3 or 4 times a weak. I do find him entertaining and truthfully I haven't found a podcast I like better even though I've tried. Maybe someone can recommend something that's better.
1. Tim Ferris, I really want to like his podcast, but I just can't seem to stay interested.
2. Choose FI, it's pretty good, but at times kind of boring.
3. Planet Money - it's not bad, interesting but random topics.
4. Freakonomics - pretty good, but not a lot of episodes
5. Mad Fientist - All he does is bring on other podcasters, and always sounds stoned. I do listen to most of them though.
6. Afford anything - she's got an amazing voice, and fairly interesting but not as entertaining as Dave.
7. Etc..
There's probably a separate thread on this..
Radical Personal Finance, by Joshua Sheats. Joshua is a former financial planner; this means that sometimes he can get tripped up on individual questions, because there are a lot of "what ifs." But it is interesting to hear the thinking that goes behind real answers to specific questions. Definitely good if other podcasts' answers are too shallow for you.
Financial Independence Europe - FI is still very new to Europe. Hell, saving for retirement (outside of a public or private pension) is fairly new. It's interesting to hear strategies when all US-based assumptions are changed.
Money for the Rest of Us, by David Stein. David's stage presence isn't electrifying, but like Joshua he was also a financial planner, so he has some interesting, deep views on topics you may think you know everything about.
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Clark Howard. Lots of timely information on a variety of money related subjects.
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I decided to listen to his podcast for the first time in a while today...it turns out that he has a cruise now.
https://www.daveramsey.com/cruise
That doesn't sound like a good time at all.
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I decided to listen to his podcast for the first time in a while today...it turns out that he has a cruise now.
https://www.daveramsey.com/cruise
That doesn't sound like a good time at all.
Ah jeez. As much as I listen to DR podcasts for some entertainment, this sounds like the worst thing I could come up with.
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I just was reading about the cruise--it popped up on social media! I started laughing and my husband came over to look. I think a Dave Ramsey cruise is my husband's definition of hell. There's just so much wrong with the idea, at least in our way of looking at the world.
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I probably listen to his podcasts 3 or 4 times a weak. I do find him entertaining and truthfully I haven't found a podcast I like better even though I've tried. Maybe someone can recommend something that's better.
1. Tim Ferris, I really want to like his podcast, but I just can't seem to stay interested.
2. Choose FI, it's pretty good, but at times kind of boring.
3. Planet Money - it's not bad, interesting but random topics.
4. Freakonomics - pretty good, but not a lot of episodes
5. Mad Fientist - All he does is bring on other podcasters, and always sounds stoned. I do listen to most of them though.
6. Afford anything - she's got an amazing voice, and fairly interesting but not as entertaining as Dave.
7. Etc..
There's probably a separate thread on this..
Radical Personal Finance, by Joshua Sheats. Joshua is a former financial planner; this means that sometimes he can get tripped up on individual questions, because there are a lot of "what ifs." But it is interesting to hear the thinking that goes behind real answers to specific questions. Definitely good if other podcasts' answers are too shallow for you.
Financial Independence Europe - FI is still very new to Europe. Hell, saving for retirement (outside of a public or private pension) is fairly new. It's interesting to hear strategies when all US-based assumptions are changed.
Money for the Rest of Us, by David Stein. David's stage presence isn't electrifying, but like Joshua he was also a financial planner, so he has some interesting, deep views on topics you may think you know everything about.
I second "Radical Personal Finance". At the very least, it is one of the most interesting FI shows out there with truly solid advice and a critical eye.
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I decided to listen to his podcast for the first time in a while today...it turns out that he has a cruise now.
https://www.daveramsey.com/cruise
That doesn't sound like a good time at all.
Ah jeez. As much as I listen to DR podcasts for some entertainment, this sounds like the worst thing I could come up with.
OMG Dave has jumped the shark. Can he think of anything else to make money now.
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Dave seems to be mentioning his wealth a lot more on his show. Here's some of the things he's mentioned recently:
1. Has $15M in mutual funds.
2. Mentioned his net worth is hundreds of millions of dollars.
3. Ramsey solutions revenue is $200M/year.
Seems like Dave is doing pretty well. He's a great businessman.
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Dave seems to be mentioning his wealth a lot more on his show. Here's some of the things he's mentioned recently:
1. Has $15M in mutual funds.
2. Mentioned his net worth is hundreds of millions of dollars.
3. Ramsey solutions revenue is $200M/year.
I did notice this recently. Surprised me, because he's usually pretty coy about his own personal finances, except to mention that he's a multi-millionaire.
As for the cruise -- generally on a cruise you know that everyone there is doing pretty well, but this one seems explicitly designed as a week of bragging and self-congratulation. And the entertainment is said to include "daily morning devotionals" which is not really how I like to party. I wonder if Chris Hogan will do the announcements on the PA system?
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After thinking about it, the cruise doesn't sound completely off-the-rails. Plenty of people in the FI movement go to Camp FI, FinCon, or even Chautauqua. Well, plenty of bloggers and podcasters go, anyway. That also doesn't strike me as a fun vacation, but to each their own.
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I decided to listen to his podcast for the first time in a while today...it turns out that he has a cruise now.
https://www.daveramsey.com/cruise
That doesn't sound like a good time at all.
I wonder if I can pay for it with a credit card...
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I decided to listen to his podcast for the first time in a while today...it turns out that he has a cruise now.
https://www.daveramsey.com/cruise
That doesn't sound like a good time at all.
I wonder if I can pay for it with a credit card...
You can't pay for anything on his website with a CC, so I guess it depends if you're booking thru the cruise line or his website.
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Yep, Radical Personal Finance is amazing in its comprehensiveness.
Another good one, although it is not longer current, is the Financial Mentor podcast. There's not all that many episodes, but you can learn a lot from what is there.
Neither of these are pure FI/RE podcasts, and are all the better for it.
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I probably listen to his podcasts 3 or 4 times a weak. I do find him entertaining and truthfully I haven't found a podcast I like better even though I've tried. Maybe someone can recommend something that's better.
1. Tim Ferris, I really want to like his podcast, but I just can't seem to stay interested.
2. Choose FI, it's pretty good, but at times kind of boring.
3. Planet Money - it's not bad, interesting but random topics.
4. Freakonomics - pretty good, but not a lot of episodes
5. Mad Fientist - All he does is bring on other podcasters, and always sounds stoned. I do listen to most of them though.
6. Afford anything - she's got an amazing voice, and fairly interesting but not as entertaining as Dave.
7. Etc..
There's probably a separate thread on this..
Radical Personal Finance, by Joshua Sheats. Joshua is a former financial planner; this means that sometimes he can get tripped up on individual questions, because there are a lot of "what ifs." But it is interesting to hear the thinking that goes behind real answers to specific questions. Definitely good if other podcasts' answers are too shallow for you.
Financial Independence Europe - FI is still very new to Europe. Hell, saving for retirement (outside of a public or private pension) is fairly new. It's interesting to hear strategies when all US-based assumptions are changed.
Money for the Rest of Us, by David Stein. David's stage presence isn't electrifying, but like Joshua he was also a financial planner, so he has some interesting, deep views on topics you may think you know everything about.
I second "Radical Personal Finance". At the very least, it is one of the most interesting FI shows out there with truly solid advice and a critical eye.
Just have to fast forward through his ranting about whatever goes against his religion.
I unsubscribed after the 2nd time it happened. That rant was about how marriage was between 1 man and 1 woman.
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I decided to listen to his podcast for the first time in a while today...it turns out that he has a cruise now.
https://www.daveramsey.com/cruise
That doesn't sound like a good time at all.
I wonder if I can pay for it with a credit card...
You can't pay for anything on his website with a CC, so I guess it depends if you're booking thru the cruise line or his website.
Ha! That was just a joke but I guess the answer could actually be no.
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I probably listen to his podcasts 3 or 4 times a weak. I do find him entertaining and truthfully I haven't found a podcast I like better even though I've tried. Maybe someone can recommend something that's better.
1. Tim Ferris, I really want to like his podcast, but I just can't seem to stay interested.
2. Choose FI, it's pretty good, but at times kind of boring.
3. Planet Money - it's not bad, interesting but random topics.
4. Freakonomics - pretty good, but not a lot of episodes
5. Mad Fientist - All he does is bring on other podcasters, and always sounds stoned. I do listen to most of them though.
6. Afford anything - she's got an amazing voice, and fairly interesting but not as entertaining as Dave.
7. Etc..
There's probably a separate thread on this..
Radical Personal Finance, by Joshua Sheats. Joshua is a former financial planner; this means that sometimes he can get tripped up on individual questions, because there are a lot of "what ifs." But it is interesting to hear the thinking that goes behind real answers to specific questions. Definitely good if other podcasts' answers are too shallow for you.
Financial Independence Europe - FI is still very new to Europe. Hell, saving for retirement (outside of a public or private pension) is fairly new. It's interesting to hear strategies when all US-based assumptions are changed.
Money for the Rest of Us, by David Stein. David's stage presence isn't electrifying, but like Joshua he was also a financial planner, so he has some interesting, deep views on topics you may think you know everything about.
I second "Radical Personal Finance". At the very least, it is one of the most interesting FI shows out there with truly solid advice and a critical eye.
Just have to fast forward through his ranting about whatever goes against his religion.
I unsubscribed after the 2nd time it happened. That rant was about how marriage was between 1 man and 1 woman.
I often wonder what would happen if a gay or lesbian married couple called up and pressed him a bit on his thoughts on their marriage and how they should structure their finances, etc. I wonder if that would make him uncomfortable.
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I often wonder what would happen if a gay or lesbian married couple called up and pressed him a bit on his thoughts on their marriage and how they should structure their finances, etc. I wonder if that would make him uncomfortable.
He seems to handle people who disagree with him very respectfully, something that is fairly lacking in the world of political discussion.
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I often wonder what would happen if a gay or lesbian married couple called up and pressed him a bit on his thoughts on their marriage and how they should structure their finances, etc. I wonder if that would make him uncomfortable.
He seems to handle people who disagree with him very respectfully, something that is fairly lacking in the world of political discussion.
IIRC, I once heard a married or engaged lesbian woman call in, and he spoke to her like he would speak to anyone else. He gives advice pretty consistently regardless of who is calling, and generally keeps his advice in the financial lane. If a gay/lesbian couple called and asked how they should structure their finances, he probably answer in the same way that he answers anybody else.
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I listened to the audio book of TTMM years ago. He does a lot of good for a lot of people. There are some thing he gets wrong, like the 8% SWR, so beware! That being said, I really like the free budgeting/tracking tool at everydollar.com. The free version is fully functional and did I mention it's free?
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IIRC, I once heard a married or engaged lesbian woman call in, and he spoke to her like he would speak to anyone else. He gives advice pretty consistently regardless of who is calling, and generally keeps his advice in the financial lane. If a gay/lesbian couple called and asked how they should structure their finances, he probably answer in the same way that he answers anybody else.
I think possibly I may have heard that same call. In any case, he doesn't usually preach about anything besides money, and I totally believe that he answered a lesbian caller as you say.
DR does rail on people for mingling their finances without being married, but he doesn't give people any heat for being divorced or living in sin, and so on. I think he feels strongly about it, but just doesn't make it part of the show.
I've heard things like "If you want to shack up, fine; but don't buy a house." (which I have to say, I kind of agree with, independent of any religious objections.)
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Dave's book The Total Money Makeover first got me involved in personal finance. I followed the steps out of debt, and succeeded. And I think if the average person followed all 7 baby steps they would end up in a tremendously better position than just winging it. What I mean is, you could probably use the 7 baby steps as a default guide to your financial life, following cultural norms like retiring at 65, and do extremely well.
The stories in the book and on the radio were very inspiring. Some of the those stories involved young couples paying off their houses in their 30s, and I was mind-blown. That was something I really wanted in my life. Then when I discovered the FIRE community, I realized the non-mortgaged route was, for my goals, even better. In some ways, it was the perfect transition because Dave got me out of debt, and FIRE got me into investing and living even more strategically below my means.
Dave's definitely selling a product, but I think it's a good product. And yeah, the message hasn't changed, so there's really nothing new to learn there, but that's fine because people from all walks of life keep discovering it, and need to. I occasionally go story hunting, I really love seeing people's lives dramatically changed for the better as they get their financial crud together. I do often read some FIRE snobbery toward his ideas (not all unwarranted), but I have a soft spot in my heart for it all :)
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IIRC, I once heard a married or engaged lesbian woman call in, and he spoke to her like he would speak to anyone else. He gives advice pretty consistently regardless of who is calling, and generally keeps his advice in the financial lane. If a gay/lesbian couple called and asked how they should structure their finances, he probably answer in the same way that he answers anybody else.
I think possibly I may have heard that same call. In any case, he doesn't usually preach about anything besides money, and I totally believe that he answered a lesbian caller as you say.
DR does rail on people for mingling their finances without being married, but he doesn't give people any heat for being divorced or living in sin, and so on. I think he feels strongly about it, but just doesn't make it part of the show.
I've heard things like "If you want to shack up, fine; but don't buy a house." (which I have to say, I kind of agree with, independent of any religious objections.)
Well Dave just had a gay caller on the show. If you'd like to hear his reaction, it's the first caller, start around 4:00 :
https://www.daveramsey.com/show/archives/2019-04-05/2?mode=listen
Spoiler: He does not care.
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I have $80,000 in student loans. No way I can clear that in 2 years
Seriously, his advice to you would be to deliver pizzas at night. This is where I get a little skeptical.
It's an antectdotal story, but I delivered pizza for about a year and a half at night after my full time salaried job, driving a $3000 car. The $15k or so profit after tax and gas helped significantly. We didn't have any children at the time, but that is the case for a lot of people. It was even sort of fun!
I've listened to DR a couple of times and wasn't impressed, but I don't think this aspect of his advice is wrong.
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IIRC, I once heard a married or engaged lesbian woman call in, and he spoke to her like he would speak to anyone else. He gives advice pretty consistently regardless of who is calling, and generally keeps his advice in the financial lane. If a gay/lesbian couple called and asked how they should structure their finances, he probably answer in the same way that he answers anybody else.
I think possibly I may have heard that same call. In any case, he doesn't usually preach about anything besides money, and I totally believe that he answered a lesbian caller as you say.
DR does rail on people for mingling their finances without being married, but he doesn't give people any heat for being divorced or living in sin, and so on. I think he feels strongly about it, but just doesn't make it part of the show.
I've heard things like "If you want to shack up, fine; but don't buy a house." (which I have to say, I kind of agree with, independent of any religious objections.)
Well Dave just had a gay caller on the show. If you'd like to hear his reaction, it's the first caller, start around 4:00 :
https://www.daveramsey.com/show/archives/2019-04-05/2?mode=listen
Spoiler: He does not care.
Wow, thanks for sharing that clip. I truly didn't think there were any gay couples featured on the DR Show (whether call-ins or debt-free screamers.) I never thought he would be different towards them; I just thought his religious views kept gay people/couples from any air time.
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