Author Topic: Buy a Mustachian Gun? Or Facepunch Me  (Read 9832 times)

haflander

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Buy a Mustachian Gun? Or Facepunch Me
« on: April 13, 2018, 08:48:20 AM »
Hello all. I've been thinking about buying a gun for a while. I'm posting about it here because I know absolutely nothing about guns, even though I live in Texas. Yes...not all of us are gun nuts. I'd also like to take a gun safety course so I can educate myself and feel comfortable with it.

Any recommendations for a pistol that's easy to use for a beginner but still will pack some punch with it? I'm guessing it will cost a few hundred, but I don't have a set limit I'm trying to stay under.

Other than the specific type, what would you suggest as far as the cheapest method for buying it? Used is fine, I don't need something new. Should I go to a gun store or shooting range? I'm thinking I should go there to ask for general advice anyway. Shady pawn shop? Online options?

Another consideration is that I have a gf who sleeps over often and is in fully embedded in my closet for her own clothes, stuff, etc. I'd probably store it there so I'd need to talk to her about it and make sure it's something she's aware of and acceptable to her. We're starting to get serious and I value her opinion, so if she had a problem with it or thought it was a waste of $, I'd probably forget about it.

OR feel free to facepunch me and tell me this is an unnecessary spendypants expense. I like hearing different opinions and am not looking for confirmation of my own. I'll go ahead and answer this ? already...no I don't NEED it, it's a mild want. I've lived this long without it and could keep doing so without any kind of suffering or FOMO or decrease in quality of life.

Thanks!

SwitchActiveDWG

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Re: Buy a Mustachian Gun? Or Facepunch Me
« Reply #1 on: April 13, 2018, 10:55:32 AM »
I live in Texas in Texas as well. I own 5 guns (two were gifted by two different grandfathers) so I have purchased 3. I have a small pocket gun (.380),  a subcompact, and a compact 9 mm.

Thatís my disclaimer so you know Iím biased when I say go ahead and buy one.

Iíd recommend a Glock 19. Itís easy for a beginner, not too pricey, light enough to carry, and very dependable. 20,000+ through mine and still going strong.

I also recommend as many classes as you have the time to take. The concealed carry class is a joke but you could start with that one, then look at specific situational classes and close quarters combat stuff. My advice is if you own a gun you should be extremely proficient with it.

YttriumNitrate

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Re: Buy a Mustachian Gun? Or Facepunch Me
« Reply #2 on: April 14, 2018, 07:48:57 AM »
I shot competitive rifle in high school and college, so I have a strong preference for long guns. For a first rifle I would suggest something inexpensive like a used Marlin. A few years ago I picked one up off of armslist for 125 including a scope. While  it wouldn't win any  competitions it sure is fun to shoot.

BlueMR2

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Re: Buy a Mustachian Gun? Or Facepunch Me
« Reply #3 on: April 14, 2018, 01:28:44 PM »
If you really want a pistol, 9mm is a great cartridge to start with.  Fairly common, reasonably priced, powerful enough, but not overpowered.  Find a gun that fits your hand well and you can easily work the controls.  Best to rent/borrow several examples before choosing to buy.

Honestly though, rifles are a lot more pure fun to shoot...  Even .22lr plinkers.  Plus they can actually cost less than a pistol...

trollwithamustache

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Re: Buy a Mustachian Gun? Or Facepunch Me
« Reply #4 on: April 14, 2018, 01:46:55 PM »
Go find a range and take some classes. Hand guns, long guns and shotguns are all very different animals.  Shooting skeet with a shotgun has surprisingly little to do with rifles on a long range target.


Snake P. Jenga

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Re: Buy a Mustachian Gun? Or Facepunch Me
« Reply #5 on: April 14, 2018, 09:40:05 PM »
OR feel free to facepunch me and tell me this is an unnecessary spendypants expense. I like hearing different opinions and am not looking for confirmation of my own. I'll go ahead and answer this ? already...no I don't NEED it, it's a mild want. I've lived this long without it and could keep doing so without any kind of suffering or FOMO or decrease in quality of life.

Regardless of whether it's a gun or a flower cannon, the bolded line would make me say don't buy it. You have not indicated why you even mildly want a gun. For self-defense? For funsies? Peer pressure? You sound very unenthusiastic about this. Why spend the money?

M2 pilot

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Re: Buy a Mustachian Gun? Or Facepunch Me
« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2018, 01:53:57 PM »
I don't own one, have never shot one, but Hi-Point pistols and carbines are cheap & have a reputation for being reliable as a rock. Many folk think they're ugly.

Paul der Krake

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Re: Buy a Mustachian Gun? Or Facepunch Me
« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2018, 02:49:58 PM »
You probably have enthusiasts in your social circle who would love to take a newbie shooting and explain everything an instructor would tell you, the 4 rules and all that. It's also a lot more fun and instructive to try different weapons and see how they each work.

Just put the word out there that you're looking to learn and see what happens. Make sure to pay for your share of ammo and then some.

Gone Fishing

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Re: Buy a Mustachian Gun? Or Facepunch Me
« Reply #8 on: April 15, 2018, 03:02:57 PM »
I'll second the, "What do you want it for?", question. Once you answer that, more helpful advice can be given. 

Here are a few possibilities

Home defense
Concealed carry
Hunting-If so, what game?
Target shooting-short range, long range, "action" style, clays?

Where do you have to shoot?  Are there any caliber restrictions?

Good point from Malkynn about making friends with a gun enthusiast.  It'll give you the chance to shoot a bunch of different things before investing anything.  I'm happy to take just about any responsible person shooting, I'll even provide the ammo if I handload for it. Rental ranges are also a possibility.  A lot of guns get shot once then languish in a closet or get traded in for a big haircut because the owners discover they don't like recoil.




DCA-SEA

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Re: Buy a Mustachian Gun? Or Facepunch Me
« Reply #9 on: April 16, 2018, 12:28:07 AM »
It seems the OP has self-defense in mind. ("pack some punch") I've thought about this issue myself - I grew up using guns for target shooting, and I am a member of a military reserve component.

If I worked in a line of work where I was a target personally or for robbery (divorce lawyer, jeweler, bail bondsman, marijuana industry, etc.), or I lived far out in the countryside where no police response would ever reach me, or both, I would consider it.

But living in a city, with other people close by, there are other ways to protect oneself that are less likely to result in misuse, an accident, or a suicide (eg pepper spray, combative training). If you pepper spray a family member by mistake, it's a joke vs a tragedy.

If you want to take up shooting for fun, I would make some friends who own guns and go with them first, then consider whether something like a shotgun for skeet is something you wanted to buy.

Also, IMHO the "modern sporting" rifles - a/k/a assault rifles like the AR-15 or SKS - are particularly un-Mustachian. They are expensive to buy and aren't good for anything except combat, or shooting a lot of ammo fast = $$$. Anything in .22 LR is very cheap to shoot. Even if one needed a weapon - the aformentioned country divorce lawyer - I would choose a 12GA shotgun with interchangeable barrels, one for hunting and skeet and one for home defense, over a handgun.

Tom Bri

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Re: Buy a Mustachian Gun? Or Facepunch Me
« Reply #10 on: April 16, 2018, 01:24:04 AM »
First, go to a range that rents guns and shoot several different ones. See what feels right in your hand.

Visit several gun shops and just browse. Lots of variety in all sorts of prices. They will usually let you handle them. Just do NOT pull the trigger. Isn't good for the gun.

Take a basic gun safety class. The NRA or an NRA certified instructor.

Do any of your friends shoot? You might be surprised. A fair numbers of the ladies where I work discuss shooting, so it isn't just guys. Mention you are in the market and lots of people will offer to let you shoot theirs.

haflander

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Re: Buy a Mustachian Gun? Or Facepunch Me
« Reply #11 on: April 17, 2018, 08:10:13 AM »
Thanks for the replies. I do have a few gunny friends, including one ex-roommate who's also former military. I'll hit him up at least for his opinion and maybe even for a visit to the gun range, repaid afterward with food and/or alcohol. I like the idea of pepper spray.

To answer the ?s, I suppose it's about a 50/50 mix of feeding the consumerist desire and home defense, maybe slightly more of the former. I have more stuff now, more to lose, and someone spending a lot of time at my place that I'd want to protect in the worst situation. But I have to admit that there's also a lot of "it would be fun to buy it and I have some money right now." So I guess I could see the pros and cons of either decision. The fact that I know nothing about guns just makes the decision a little more complicated and nuanced than it would be otherwise.

tyrannostache

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Re: Buy a Mustachian Gun? Or Facepunch Me
« Reply #12 on: April 17, 2018, 11:01:56 AM »
Another cost to factor in: how will you secure the gun in your home? Will you use a storage case, gun vault, locker, etc? Will you put it in a shoebox on the top shelf of your closet?

I have to admit, I'm skeptical of the argument that, for the general public, the benefits of having a gun for self-defense outweigh the risk you run by having a readily available gun in your home. I think it makes people feel more secure, but except for trained professional I think the actual risk outweighs the rewards. (Yes, key here is "I think." We still have a glaring lack of data on gun use, unlike data on cars and other risky items)

Consider break-ins.
Is a break-in more likely when you are home or when you are out? What if a break-in occurs while you are out? Now your gun may be in the hands of criminals.

OK, a break-in occurs while you are home. Possible scenarios: 1) you say "I have a gun!" and invaders bolt. 2) You get your gun, train it on invaders, they leave. 3) You get your gun, hold them in place while GF calls cops. They go to jail. 4) You get gun, fire warning shot, hopefully they leave. 5) You get your gun, train it on them, they come at you, and you shoot to stop them. How accurate are you with adrenaline coursing through your body? Do they have guns? Will they start shooting back? Are you certain those were thieves/attackers and not your drunk neighbor trying to open the wrong door? Do you have the training and presence of mind to make that distinction? Are you willing to take a life?

Consider accidents.
Can you guarantee that you will always store your gun securely? Do children visit your home? If so, how will you make sure they don't get access to your gun? Do you have close friends or family who could have access to your firearm and who suffer from depression?


I just want to make sure folks think all the angles through when considering buying a firearm.

haflander

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Re: Buy a Mustachian Gun? Or Facepunch Me
« Reply #13 on: April 17, 2018, 11:49:28 AM »
Thanks tyranno, lots of good food for thought here. I'd use a storage case if I could easily get one with it and it was cheap. Do these come with locks? I know nothing but I hope they have some kinda combo number lock thing. I like your logic of the safety aspect, I'll need to think about that. No kids and no other non-GF visitors 99% of the time.

Snake P. Jenga

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Re: Buy a Mustachian Gun? Or Facepunch Me
« Reply #14 on: April 17, 2018, 12:00:38 PM »
How does your gf feel about it? Does she want an inexperienced gun owner to protect her? Will she learn how to use it, if she doesn't already know?

You mention having more stuff to protect. That is more cheaply and easily solved by getting rid of your fancy stuff and meditating on impermanence. :P

Tom Bri

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Re: Buy a Mustachian Gun? Or Facepunch Me
« Reply #15 on: April 17, 2018, 08:23:10 PM »
Another cost to factor in: how will you secure the gun in your home? Will you use a storage case, gun vault, locker, etc? Will you put it in a shoebox on the top shelf of your closet?

I have to admit, I'm skeptical of the argument that, for the general public, the benefits of having a gun for self-defense outweigh the risk you run by having a readily available gun in your home. I think it makes people feel more secure, but except for trained professional I think the actual risk outweighs the rewards. (Yes, key here is "I think." We still have a glaring lack of data on gun use, unlike data on cars and other risky items)

Consider break-ins.
Is a break-in more likely when you are home or when you are out? What if a break-in occurs while you are out? Now your gun may be in the hands of criminals.

OK, a break-in occurs while you are home. Possible scenarios: 1) you say "I have a gun!" and invaders bolt. 2) You get your gun, train it on invaders, they leave. 3) You get your gun, hold them in place while GF calls cops. They go to jail. 4) You get gun, fire warning shot, hopefully they leave. 5) You get your gun, train it on them, they come at you, and you shoot to stop them. How accurate are you with adrenaline coursing through your body? Do they have guns? Will they start shooting back? Are you certain those were thieves/attackers and not your drunk neighbor trying to open the wrong door? Do you have the training and presence of mind to make that distinction? Are you willing to take a life?

Consider accidents.
Can you guarantee that you will always store your gun securely? Do children visit your home? If so, how will you make sure they don't get access to your gun? Do you have close friends or family who could have access to your firearm and who suffer from depression?


I just want to make sure folks think all the angles through when considering buying a firearm.

I am very strongly pro-gun, and I agree with pretty much everything quoted above. There are pros and cons, not the least of which is your own personal mental stability, and that of your loved ones.

The decision to buy a gun for 'personal safety' more than implies the willingness to kill someone. It baldly states 'I value my own life more than I value the life of a burglar'.

This has a flip side. A burglar's willingness to break into your home screams his willingness to risk death in order to steal some cheap crap. He certainly doesn't value either his own or your life very highly. It isn't about defending your stuff, it's about your life.

Obviously, you are at early stages here. Take your time. Shoot a few different guns. Talk to people who own guns. It's a lot like buying a car. You are choosing something with risk in order to avoid something worse. What is the balance, for you?

Bbqmustache

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Re: Buy a Mustachian Gun? Or Facepunch Me
« Reply #16 on: April 18, 2018, 06:20:35 AM »
I just bought a Marlin 60, and plan to have a lot of fun target hunting and small game hunting when I get good.

Do not store a gun in a carry bag, get a gun safe (yeah, another expense).  If you take the plunge, head to a range, take classes, get REALLY good with it.  Then keep up the practice on a semi-regular basis.

My two cents.

haflander

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Re: Buy a Mustachian Gun? Or Facepunch Me
« Reply #17 on: April 18, 2018, 07:50:01 AM »
Thanks for the replies. I do have a few gunny friends, including one ex-roommate who's also former military. I'll hit him up at least for his opinion and maybe even for a visit to the gun range, repaid afterward with food and/or alcohol. I like the idea of pepper spray.

To answer the ?s, I suppose it's about a 50/50 mix of feeding the consumerist desire and home defense, maybe slightly more of the former. I have more stuff now, more to lose, and someone spending a lot of time at my place that I'd want to protect in the worst situation. But I have to admit that there's also a lot of "it would be fun to buy it and I have some money right now." So I guess I could see the pros and cons of either decision. The fact that I know nothing about guns just makes the decision a little more complicated and nuanced than it would be otherwise.

Yeah...

Iím sorry, Iím not usually one to post things like this, but this is as facepunch worthy as anything I have ever seen.

You want to buy a gun because it might be fun to own and because you have money and because you have already spent a bunch of money on crap that you might want to ďprotectĒ???
Thatís insane. Home security systems and insurance protect your ďstuffĒ. The chances of you being home when your stuff gets stolen is pretty slim.

The protection of a gun is for protecting yourself. So unless you are specifically concerned about a violent break in where someone might attack you, then what the hell would a gun protect?

Iím sorry, but your post seems to basically amount to ďuh...I have some money, maybe I should spend it on a gun?...Ē which is as anti Mustachian as you can get. Maybe Iím wrong, maybe beneath the seemingly tepid enthusiasm expressed in your posts thereís a secret deep longing to own a deadly weapon and your life wonít feel complete until you have one (or whatever emotion drives Americans to buy guns), but it truly doesnít come off like anything other than mindlessly contemplating spending for the sake of spending.

So yeah. Facepunch. Serious facepunch, and I donít even believe in giving facepunches. Oy.

Yay! I think this is my first official facepunch on the forum. I'm downright giddy. No need to apologize.

I originally posted this thread looking for some info on gun education and ownership for a new person AND pushback from those like yourself. Don't I at least get some points for honesty and not twisting or sugar coating the truth of the matter? Maybe deep down I wanted to be facepunched and convinced not to get one, who knows. The mind is a fickle thing and I'm always in pursuit of trying to understand my own motivations and WHY I feel things. I think that's one of the most difficult things to do and something many don't achieve even in old age. And I'd be seriously impressed if 100% of the guns owned by posters on this thread were for 100% functional purposes without an ounce of "owning it would be fun." Maybe that's possible, but I'd be impressed. Not that I'm trying to rationalize or use that as an excuse for me to get one...just sayin'.

Jrr85

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Re: Buy a Mustachian Gun? Or Facepunch Me
« Reply #18 on: April 18, 2018, 08:08:22 AM »
Thanks tyranno, lots of good food for thought here. I'd use a storage case if I could easily get one with it and it was cheap. Do these come with locks? I know nothing but I hope they have some kinda combo number lock thing. I like your logic of the safety aspect, I'll need to think about that. No kids and no other non-GF visitors 99% of the time.

You can get a cheap safe for like $50 that will hold a pistol.  I use this one:  https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00UG9HB1Q/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

If you want it to actually prevent theft, you can bolt it into studs in the wall.  I'm not sure how hard it'd be to get into if somebody spent some time on the internet, but I think it'd probably keep what's in it safe in 99% of burglaries. 

If you just use it for safety, which I do, you don't even have to bolt it down.  You just need to make sure it's somewhere it won't get knocked around so you're not rattling a gun around inside. 

And it will accept a 3-digit code, so if you're worried about home defense, it's not really an impediment to getting to your gun. 

netskyblue

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Re: Buy a Mustachian Gun? Or Facepunch Me
« Reply #19 on: April 18, 2018, 10:14:07 AM »
It's not a bad idea to take a gun safety course regardless of whether you intend to buy a gun.  I'm in favor of most people understanding how to use a gun safely, whether they ever intend to use one later or not.

But my advice is never buy a gun you haven't shot before.  You don't know how it feels, how it shoots, what the trigger reset feels like, and if you're going to buy one, you want to get one that feels good to you so that you shoot it well

Some other guy earlier recommended a Glock 19.  Glocks have a huge following, this is true.  I'm terrible with a Glock, my wrist/grip is too weak and I often end up jamming them.  (Yes, that's something I need to work on, but it's also why I own something different - I don't want something that I know I have problems with in a life-or-death situation.)  Also, I think they're ugly.

I'm more a gun owner because I like target shooting than for protection, but I'll admit I've carried while traveling alone (through states where my CCW is honored).  I own a small Ruger revolver, a Sig, and a Beretta, and the Sig trigger is absolute heaven.  If I had to go for only one of my weapons and I needed to be damn sure I hit spot on where I'm aiming, the Sig would be the one.  However, the revolver is more concealable, and a .38 special is more "punchy" than a 9mm.  The Beretta - well, that one's just pretty.  It doesn't have any qualities I prefer over the others, except looks.

My mom owns a really similar revolver (looks-wise), a S&W, same caliber, but each of us hates the way the other's gun feels in our hands.  Mine has a beefier grip that's a little big longer, which is uncomfortable to her, but feels right to me.  Hers feels too slim to get a good grip on (to me).  Point is, figure out what you like and why, and you can really only do that by trying out different things. 

SubL stache

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Re: Buy a Mustachian Gun? Or Facepunch Me
« Reply #20 on: April 20, 2018, 06:00:15 AM »
Guns can be expensive.  They also don't decrease in value very much.

Consider the caliber, you can shoot 22LR all day long and spend 5$.  If you're shooting .45 you'll go through 17$ in 45 minutes.

Consider where you can shoot.  We have a free range in the national forest I can shoot at, but others in more metro areas may have to get a range membership somewhere or pay a daily rate.  Our local range is 250$ annually or $30 each visit for non members.

Consider the accessories cost, I purchased a holster for $35 and a safe to keep my kids out for $100.

With that said I have a semi auto 9mm & .45, a .38spl revolver, and a 12g pump action shotgun.

driftwood

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Re: Buy a Mustachian Gun? Or Facepunch Me
« Reply #21 on: April 20, 2018, 09:51:43 AM »
Thanks for the replies. I do have a few gunny friends, including one ex-roommate who's also former military. I'll hit him up at least for his opinion and maybe even for a visit to the gun range, repaid afterward with food and/or alcohol. I like the idea of pepper spray.

To answer the ?s, I suppose it's about a 50/50 mix of feeding the consumerist desire and home defense, maybe slightly more of the former. I have more stuff now, more to lose, and someone spending a lot of time at my place that I'd want to protect in the worst situation. But I have to admit that there's also a lot of "it would be fun to buy it and I have some money right now." So I guess I could see the pros and cons of either decision. The fact that I know nothing about guns just makes the decision a little more complicated and nuanced than it would be otherwise.

I think using a firearm to prevent theft of your 'stuff' is shaky legal ground and could end up being far more expensive in court than losing said stuff. The self-defense motivation is fine, and a personal choice.

Please no warning shots. Those are a movie thing. Only shoot to kill and only shoot if you have to kill to protect your own life and/or the life of someone else.

SwitchActiveDWG

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Re: Buy a Mustachian Gun? Or Facepunch Me
« Reply #22 on: April 20, 2018, 12:30:03 PM »
Thanks for the replies. I do have a few gunny friends, including one ex-roommate who's also former military. I'll hit him up at least for his opinion and maybe even for a visit to the gun range, repaid afterward with food and/or alcohol. I like the idea of pepper spray.

To answer the ?s, I suppose it's about a 50/50 mix of feeding the consumerist desire and home defense, maybe slightly more of the former. I have more stuff now, more to lose, and someone spending a lot of time at my place that I'd want to protect in the worst situation. But I have to admit that there's also a lot of "it would be fun to buy it and I have some money right now." So I guess I could see the pros and cons of either decision. The fact that I know nothing about guns just makes the decision a little more complicated and nuanced than it would be otherwise.

I think using a firearm to prevent theft of your 'stuff' is shaky legal ground and could end up being far more expensive in court than losing said stuff. The self-defense motivation is fine, and a personal choice.

Please no warning shots. Those are a movie thing. Only shoot to kill and only shoot if you have to kill to protect your own life and/or the life of someone else.

He lives in Texas, the legal ground for protecting your stuff is pretty sound (see TX penal code sec 9.42 for particulars). And the court precedents for protecting stuff is also very lenient in Texas.

That being said... Iím personally only protecting life or life of loved ones. And totally agree on no warning shots. Shoot to kill and only if there is absolutely no other choice.

I'm a red panda

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Re: Buy a Mustachian Gun? Or Facepunch Me
« Reply #23 on: April 20, 2018, 05:24:48 PM »
I have no information about buying a gun to share.

But I read the title and thought WTF is a mustachian gun? I'd love to see the blog post on that... Maybe I'm wrong but Pete doesn't strike me as a gun guy.

Jrr85

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Re: Buy a Mustachian Gun? Or Facepunch Me
« Reply #24 on: April 23, 2018, 09:09:31 AM »
Thanks for the replies. I do have a few gunny friends, including one ex-roommate who's also former military. I'll hit him up at least for his opinion and maybe even for a visit to the gun range, repaid afterward with food and/or alcohol. I like the idea of pepper spray.

To answer the ?s, I suppose it's about a 50/50 mix of feeding the consumerist desire and home defense, maybe slightly more of the former. I have more stuff now, more to lose, and someone spending a lot of time at my place that I'd want to protect in the worst situation. But I have to admit that there's also a lot of "it would be fun to buy it and I have some money right now." So I guess I could see the pros and cons of either decision. The fact that I know nothing about guns just makes the decision a little more complicated and nuanced than it would be otherwise.

I think using a firearm to prevent theft of your 'stuff' is shaky legal ground and could end up being far more expensive in court than losing said stuff. The self-defense motivation is fine, and a personal choice.

Please no warning shots. Those are a movie thing. Only shoot to kill and only shoot if you have to kill to protect your own life and/or the life of someone else.

He lives in Texas, the legal ground for protecting your stuff is pretty sound (see TX penal code sec 9.42 for particulars). And the court precedents for protecting stuff is also very lenient in Texas.

That being said... Iím personally only protecting life or life of loved ones. And totally agree on no warning shots. Shoot to kill and only if there is absolutely no other choice.

I'm not sure how often there's an ability to tell the difference.  I guess if you come home and can tell that your house is being burglarized before you enter, and then you enter, you are protecting stuff, not people.  But otherwise, if you are there to protect your property, there is going to be a more pressing need to protect yourself.  Even if you shoot someone while they are retreating, depending on where they are and what the surroundings are like, you're not going to really know if they are actually fleeing or just getting better cover before returning fire. 

Mr. Green

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Re: Buy a Mustachian Gun? Or Facepunch Me
« Reply #25 on: April 26, 2018, 08:10:25 AM »
Consumerist desire is NOT a reason to purchase a gun.

If your main goal is home defense, a handgun is probably not the best choice. Under the effects of adrenaline handguns can be very inaccurate in the hands on a novice. You could miss an intruder standing 15 feet away. Errant bullets can travel through walls and kill your family members instead.

Consider a shotgun if home defense is really what you're after. With a shotgun you won't miss. The right kind of shot doesn't travel through walls the same way bullets do. Also, the crunch-crunch of racking the gun tends to scare people. They've heard it in movies all their lives and it sounds just like that in real life. It's a warning shot without firing one. If that doesn't cause an intruder to leave, you know it's more likely they have intent to harm.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2018, 11:45:04 AM by Mr. Green »

Mtngrl

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Re: Buy a Mustachian Gun? Or Facepunch Me
« Reply #26 on: May 01, 2018, 02:59:58 PM »

Consider a shotgun if home defense is really what you're after. With a shotgun you won't miss. The right kind of shot doesn't travel through walls the same way bullets do. Also, the crunch-crunch of racking the gun tends to scare people. They've heard it in movies all their lives and it sounds just like that in real life. It's a warning shot without firing one. If that doesn't cause an intruder to leave, you know it's more likely they have intent to harm.

Many years ago as a newlywed living in the boonies, whose husband traveled a lot, I took a gun safety class sponsored by the local sheriff's department. Very first class the instructor said pretty much the above. We have guns for target shooting and I really like shooting the shotgun.

SumBum

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Re: Buy a Mustachian Gun? Or Facepunch Me
« Reply #27 on: May 05, 2018, 12:07:37 PM »
Number 1 thing I'd advocate is training.  If, after being facepunched, you still want to pursue this, take a course or two before you even buy a gun.  Some will require you bring your own, though.

As for advice on purchasing...  Go to a store, pick up and handle multiple guns.  Find one that's comfortable for you.  So many factors play in (weight, slide function, grip, etc) that you really need to do some test driving.

I enjoy target shooting, but rarely do.  Cost of ammunition is something I can't justify right now.  The only reason I own guns is because they were gifts.  I couldn't justify spending money on one and my dad found a couple good deals.  It is kind of a fun father-daughter bonding thing when we go to a range on occasion, though.

cowpuncher10

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Re: Buy a Mustachian Gun? Or Facepunch Me
« Reply #28 on: May 22, 2018, 07:00:53 AM »
You can not use a gun to defend your property, valuables, possessions. You will be charged with a crime. A gun may be used in self defense if there is a threat of forcible felony to you or anyone else.

People touting a shotgun as a can't miss option are wrong. The spread on a shotgun in typical distances inside of a residence can not be measured in feet but in inches.

Contrary to popular belief a 12 guage with 00 buckshot will actually penetrate more than an ar15 with frangible rounds, assuming it is .223/5.56.

Please please please go and do some independent research away from these forums on this topic. These forums are fantastic resources for finding deals, changing thought processes to become more mustachian, and general empowerment over one's financial life but this is NOT the place to do research on firearms etc.

There has been some great advice that you should follow. Go to a range and take a safety course if you haven't already. After you have taken your safety course RENT or go with friends to try out various guns (shotgun, handgun, rifles). If you decide to purchase a firearm you can purchase one online and have it shipped to a local FFL where you will undergo a background check and likely pay a transfer fee or you can go to the same FFL and undergo a background check. I  mention online because there are a lot of resources that you can use to find great deals on firearms that you may be interested in.

If you are taking recommendations do NOT buy a Judge/Governor biggest freaking joke/gimmick that ever came out. 

AlienRobotAnthropologist

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Re: Buy a Mustachian Gun? Or Facepunch Me
« Reply #29 on: May 24, 2018, 06:46:39 PM »
If I wanted a gun for real self defense and to be kept in my bedroom (not a concealed carry), I'd go with a pump action 12-gauge shotgun. If you haven't practiced shooting a lot, I wouldn't count on your aim under stress. Plus they're way more fun to shoot for sport. Purely for sport a 22 is a good place to start and muzzle loaders are always fun if you're looking more for the whole "experience" of using a gun.

FI40

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Re: Buy a Mustachian Gun? Or Facepunch Me
« Reply #30 on: May 25, 2018, 07:21:03 AM »
If I wanted a gun for real self defense and to be kept in my bedroom (not a concealed carry), I'd go with a pump action 12-gauge shotgun. If you haven't practiced shooting a lot, I wouldn't count on your aim under stress. Plus they're way more fun to shoot for sport.

Bill Burr concurs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9iYvyffAh4

FI40

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Re: Buy a Mustachian Gun? Or Facepunch Me
« Reply #31 on: May 25, 2018, 07:49:13 AM »
My two cents on this with regard to home defense:

I feel like a gun would be useful in the case where someone is deranged, is coming to rob your house, and even though you're cooperative in giving them your stuff, kill or assault you or your family just for fun. That's extremely unlikely but not impossible so sure, in that scenario I would want to engage that person in a gunfight, and would want more firepower than them and be better trained than them etc etc. However, the average armed burglar is NOT looking to kill anyone. They want your stuff, they want money, and they want to not get caught. But engaging them in a gunfight is a good way to get them to shoot at you. That scenario where an armed burglar is pushed to shoot at you because you engage them, is wayyyy more likely than the first scenario where someone is deranged and has decided to randomly target your house for their (likely last, as they will probably be caught) killing spree.

So my strategy is to not have a gun, and have not much of material value in the house so that I can quickly appease whatever armed burglar shows up (and hope they get caught soon). I realize I'm swallowing my pride here, and if I lived alone I can do what I please in terms of risking my life, but I have my family to think about. I have to do what is statistically best for their lives and if that means handing over some easy to replace stuff to someone once or twice in my life, that's a good trade.

Anyway that's just how I see it. You can dream up all kinds of nightmare scenarios under the "deranged guy comes to your house" umbrella that can scare you into getting a gun. But I think people have to agree there's a tradeoff in having a gun where you increase your chances of someone shooting at you.

By the way I don't know anybody who knows anybody who has been faced with an armed burglar.

EDIT: Oh and get stickers to put on your doors and/or windows for some home security system. I think the sticker would be a big deterrent and it's almost free.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2018, 07:52:47 AM by FI40 »

GuitarStv

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Re: Buy a Mustachian Gun? Or Facepunch Me
« Reply #32 on: May 25, 2018, 07:55:40 AM »
'Mustachian gun' might apply to a hunting rifle that you regularly bring home food with.  What you're describing (buying and owning something because you fear an unlikely event, buying something because you think it might be fun) doesn't sound very mustachian.

YttriumNitrate

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Re: Buy a Mustachian Gun? Or Facepunch Me
« Reply #33 on: May 25, 2018, 08:21:42 AM »
'Mustachian gun' might apply to a hunting rifle that you regularly bring home food with.  What you're describing (buying and owning something because you fear an unlikely event, buying something because you think it might be fun) doesn't sound very mustachian.
Whenever someone suggests hunting as a worthwhile financial investment I feel obligated to post this Jeff Foxworthy video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJa8kxPfPoU

GuitarStv

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Re: Buy a Mustachian Gun? Or Facepunch Me
« Reply #34 on: May 25, 2018, 08:32:02 AM »
'Mustachian gun' might apply to a hunting rifle that you regularly bring home food with.  What you're describing (buying and owning something because you fear an unlikely event, buying something because you think it might be fun) doesn't sound very mustachian.
Whenever someone suggests hunting as a worthwhile financial investment I feel obligated to post this Jeff Foxworthy video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJa8kxPfPoU

Yeah, there's certainly a difference between rich guy goofing around hunting and subsistence hunting.  :P

I grew up in a very poor Northern Ontario community.  My best friend as a child regularly hunted moose with his father to keep grocery bills down.  A large moose would provide them meat for most of a year.  He didn't have any fancy gear, didn't have a fancy jacket, wasn't driven around in a fancy car, etc.

ian89T

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Re: Buy a Mustachian Gun? Or Facepunch Me
« Reply #35 on: June 07, 2018, 11:06:39 AM »
If you are feeling the urge to have something for home defense, I would have to recommend the Mossberg 500 or even the Mossberg Mavrick if you are looking to go the mot cost efficient route possible. It does not take much to become proficient and safe with a shotgun, they are relatively cheap to feed, and shooting skeet is a hell of a lot of fun. Both options have interchangeable barrels and look black and scary if that is what you are into. Finally, both are reliable and will go bang each time you pull the trigger.

https://www.academy.com/shop/pdp/mossberg%C2%AE-maverick%C2%AE-88-12-gauge-all-purpose-pump-action-shotgun

I am sure you could find the Mavrick for cheaper if you were to shop around locally and maybe buy used.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2018, 11:10:02 AM by ian89T »

wageslave23

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Re: Buy a Mustachian Gun? Or Facepunch Me
« Reply #36 on: July 03, 2018, 02:52:39 PM »
I don't own one, have never shot one, but Hi-Point pistols and carbines are cheap & have a reputation for being reliable as a rock. Many folk think they're ugly.

I bought a hi-point 9mm for about $150.  It shoots great and 9mm ammo from walmart is cheap.  I bought it to occasionally go with friends to the shooting range and I have it in my nightstand for self defense.  I'll probably never use it for that, but $150 for a reliable gun is seems pretty good to me.

libertarian4321

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Re: Buy a Mustachian Gun? Or Facepunch Me
« Reply #37 on: July 03, 2018, 05:56:18 PM »
I'm kind of late to this thread, but I would suggest you find a local range and take a day to try out shooting.

Many will allow you to "rent" guns at the range and will provide instruction.  You can try several models and see what you like best before you buy.

Be careful, though, some people who think "I'm not a gun person" try it out and get addicted.  None of us gun people were gun people before we tried it. :)




theonlybutler

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Re: Buy a Mustachian Gun? Or Facepunch Me
« Reply #38 on: July 05, 2018, 12:21:07 PM »
Speaking as an outsider (not being from the U.S.A), this is the most anti-mustachian thing ever!  Literally reeks of that keeping up with the Joneses' mentality, next thing you're going to be asking what SUV you should buy. The alternative is "hmm what device should I buy that's designed to kill people" (obviously unless its for an intended purpose range shooting/hunting which you don't intend on doing).

Abe

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Re: Buy a Mustachian Gun? Or Facepunch Me
« Reply #39 on: July 07, 2018, 11:26:03 PM »
I vote that pepper spray and standard home security precautions (avoid making your house a target with ostentatious displays of wealth, keep windows & doors locked, have an intruder alarm) would be cheaper, easier to maintain, and safer in case of accidental discharge. Consider not only the monetary cost of owning a gun, but the time cost of training (which should be substantial, especially if keeping one for a rare but high-stakes scenario) and upkeep.

My family has guns at home because we live in a town full of heavily armed people, many of whom are KKK members and have a problem with us living in the town. My rational solution was to move somewhere else and never go back. My parents think the risk to their lives is lower than I estimate, and thus stayed there but have some guns for protection. Every decision is a risk/benefit tradeoff, I guess.

Debts_of_Despair

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Re: Buy a Mustachian Gun? Or Facepunch Me
« Reply #40 on: July 08, 2018, 03:43:04 PM »
Glock 19 seems to be the obvious Mustacian pistol choice.  Relatively cheap, reliable, and easy to obtain.  Definitely a buy it for life kind of item.  You can always sell it for a minimal loss if you decide you donít want it.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2018, 03:45:50 PM by Debts_of_Despair »

Anon in Alaska

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Re: Buy a Mustachian Gun? Or Facepunch Me
« Reply #41 on: July 08, 2018, 08:06:46 PM »
Mustachianism often has an element of "do-it-yourself" to it so maybe a Mustachian gun would be one that you made yourself?
Google it.

GuitarStv

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Re: Buy a Mustachian Gun? Or Facepunch Me
« Reply #42 on: July 09, 2018, 07:11:29 AM »
This is a list of homocides per country, so also including non-gun homocides (couldn't find good data on gun-related only in my quick search). Seems like a whole bunch of African countries scores lower than the USA regardless of their 80%+ of black population. 

Now these aren't minorities in this case, but neither are the black people a major minority in many Latin countries with the highest homocide rates (or do you consider hispanics as black too?!)

The majority have MUCH higher crime than the US and keep in mind the US rate would be reduced by about 50% without the murders blacks commit.Many of the african countries that report lower rates likely do not keep accurate statistics i.e. liberia and burkina faso(burkina faso seems to claim the lowest rate in the world.) I don't think % black is the only factor in a countries crime rate, but it is obviously very strongly predictive. Other factors like strength of rule of law also matter.

In brazil, the insane murder rate is mostly blacks killing people.
Is there a multicultural society where we don't see the same pattern? I am genuinely curious. I know in london its the same as the US.

Given that you've many times stated that black people are the reason for murders in countries . . . do you believe that this is because blacks are genetically inferior to other races, or is it because they are culturally inferior?

GuitarStv

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Re: Buy a Mustachian Gun? Or Facepunch Me
« Reply #43 on: July 09, 2018, 08:53:52 AM »
This is a list of homocides per country, so also including non-gun homocides (couldn't find good data on gun-related only in my quick search). Seems like a whole bunch of African countries scores lower than the USA regardless of their 80%+ of black population. 

Now these aren't minorities in this case, but neither are the black people a major minority in many Latin countries with the highest homocide rates (or do you consider hispanics as black too?!)

The majority have MUCH higher crime than the US and keep in mind the US rate would be reduced by about 50% without the murders blacks commit.Many of the african countries that report lower rates likely do not keep accurate statistics i.e. liberia and burkina faso(burkina faso seems to claim the lowest rate in the world.) I don't think % black is the only factor in a countries crime rate, but it is obviously very strongly predictive. Other factors like strength of rule of law also matter.

In brazil, the insane murder rate is mostly blacks killing people.
Is there a multicultural society where we don't see the same pattern? I am genuinely curious. I know in london its the same as the US.

Given that you've many times stated that black people are the reason for murders in countries . . . do you believe that this is because blacks are genetically inferior to other races, or is it because they are culturally inferior?

I don't think black people are "inferior" to whites at all. Just like I don't think whites are "inferior" to north east asians. People being different from one another doesn't make one group "inferior." People are often taught these discrepancies are caused by poverty, but Raj Chetty's recent study revealed this isn't remotely true and that race predicts violence independently of poverty. I am not surprised this thread is basically a canadian dog pile because like I said, you guys don't really get what certain areas of our country are like and how people behave.

I have no idea what you think (still can't read minds, unfortunately).  However, you have written several times now that black people commit more murders than any other race.  This is an undesirable trait and you have explicitly linked it to race over any other factor.  In your response above you've mentioned an article that you claim links violence to race independent of poverty (the article that you failed to link says no such thing in fact:  http://www.equality-of-opportunity.org/assets/documents/race_paper.pdf, I assume this is why you omitted it).  Can you please provide the evidence you're using that demonstrates the inferiority of the black race regarding murder/violence that you have claimed?


Every olympics since 1984 the finals of the 100 meter dash has been 100% black people. I'm curious how you would explain that phenomenon?

I don't know, I haven't studied it.  Is there a measurable genetic advantage in a small population of black runners?  Is it just happenstance . . . something that culturally or environmentally is conferring advantage?  No idea.

Is this entirely a red-herring attempt to distract from your previous comments though?  Absolutely.  So I'm not sure if there's much point delving deeper into the question.

js82

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Re: Buy a Mustachian Gun? Or Facepunch Me
« Reply #44 on: July 14, 2018, 08:27:45 AM »
To answer the ?s, I suppose it's about a 50/50 mix of feeding the consumerist desire and home defense, maybe slightly more of the former. I have more stuff now, more to lose, and someone spending a lot of time at my place that I'd want to protect in the worst situation. But I have to admit that there's also a lot of "it would be fun to buy it and I have some money right now." So I guess I could see the pros and cons of either decision. The fact that I know nothing about guns just makes the decision a little more complicated and nuanced than it would be otherwise.

The problem with the "defense" argument, is that(assuming one is not a criminal) statistically, the person most likely to be shot with a gun you own is you(or someone that lives with you), not the hypothetical person trying to invade your home.  The most effective way to make your home safer is with things like a sercurity system, better locks on doors/windows, etc. - NOT a gun.  If you enjoy hunting/sport shooting as a hobby, then by all means purchase a gun (and take the training classes, and store it safely) - but the notion that gun ownership makes you safer in your home simply is not supported by data.

Consider the following (using relatively recent available statistics - 2010-2012 average)

Gun Deaths:
Homicide: 11256
Suicide: 20012
Accidental: 582

Nonfatal Gun Injuries:
Assault: 48534
Self-Harm: 3606
Accidental: 11529

(Source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4700838/ )

Number of Burglary-related homicides (Based on slightly older data): <500 per year.

Also, nearly 2/3 of burglaries where violence occurred involve (former) intimate partners, (former) friends, family members, and acquaintances.  The random break-in by a stranger only accounts for ~1/3 of incidents.

(Source: https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/ascii/vdhb.txt )
« Last Edit: July 14, 2018, 08:34:40 AM by js82 »

2Cent

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Re: Buy a Mustachian Gun? Or Facepunch Me
« Reply #45 on: July 16, 2018, 07:18:47 AM »
Just put a 25ct "I love NRA" sticker on your door. Any thief will skip your house. Especially if you might be home. Unless you're very overtly rich. Then they will shoot you first just to be sure.

ericrugiero

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Re: Buy a Mustachian Gun? Or Facepunch Me
« Reply #46 on: September 21, 2018, 01:18:00 PM »
If you still want a gun, you need to decide what you want it for.  Guns should be chosen very specifically for the job they are going to do. 

Just target shooting for fun:  Start with a pistol or a rifle in "22 long rifle".  The guns and the ammo both tend to be much cheaper.  This isn't very good for self defense. 

Home defense:  12 Gauge shotgun would be a good choice but it's harder to get quick access to one. 

Alternative home defense:  9mm pistol such as the Glock 19 mentioned above.  There are lots of other good guns as well (S&W M&P9, Walther PPQ, etc).  Stick with 9mm because it's fairly cheap, easier to shoot and effective.  Get a quick access handgun safe (combination lock or fingerprint reader) to allow easy access.  Bigger size guns tend to be more accurate and easier to shoot.  That also makes them harder to carry. 
 
Concealed carry for self defense:  Smaller 9mm pistol such as the S&W shield or Glock 43. 

No matter what you choose, anyone who owns a gun should get training on how to use it properly and SAFELY.  It's a big responsibility but can be a very good thing. 

Treading lightly (hopefully) on the race issue mentioned above.  Statistically, blacks in the USA are much more likely to commit murder and other crimes.  I believe this is due to cultural issues such as being raised in inner cities with gangs, single parent families and other bad influences.  It's difficult to break the cycle while living "in the hood".  In my area, we have lots of multi generational welfare families which happen to be predominantly white.  It's not because they are white, it's because that's how they were raised and what they are expected to do.  That's a hard cycle to break as well. 


Indexer

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Re: Buy a Mustachian Gun? Or Facepunch Me
« Reply #47 on: September 27, 2018, 07:22:05 PM »
For home defense I would go with a reliable 9mm.  Glock, H&K, Smith and Wesson, and Sig are all great options.

The best answer is to try a few. You want something that feels natural in your hand and natural to shoot. The only way to know that is to fire a few. For instance, a previous poster mentioned the S&W shield. I wanted so badly to love that gun, it's a great gun, but once I held it in my hand I knew it wasn't going to be a good relationship. Most ranges will let you rent different guns, and some will do it at a discount if you tell them you are shopping. Ask friends if you can fire theirs as well. Also don't be surprised if years later you find a gun that feels even better. It happened to me.

I agree with previous posters on 9mm.
1. Ammo is cheap so you can practice more often at the range.
2. Less recoil. This means you can get back on target faster after each shot, meaning that consecutive shots will be faster or more accurate than if you were firing a more powerful round.
3. More rounds. The same sized gun will have a 7 round clip if it's a .45 caliber or it will have a 12-14 round clip for a 9mm. That's more chances to hit.
4. A 9mm will cause serious injury. People talk about 'stopping power'. A 9mm will stop someone. Unless you're fending off a bear you don't need a hand cannon.

Buy a small gun safe. Something like...
https://www.amazon.com/GunVault-GV1000C-STD-Mini-Vault-Standard/dp/B001C601KA/ref=pd_day0_hl_200_5?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B001C601KA&pd_rd_r=1a9415be-c2bd-11e8-9084-47b0b2b8c51c&pd_rd_w=2rHrN&pd_rd_wg=owjKd&pf_rd_i=desktop-dp-sims&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_p=ad07871c-e646-4161-82c7-5ed0d4c85b07&pf_rd_r=0M6BQGFFM0ZT9XQXJZ02&pf_rd_s=desktop-dp-sims&pf_rd_t=40701&psc=1&refRID=0M6BQGFFM0ZT9XQXJZ02

Notice it has push buttons in the shape of your hand. Easy to open in the dark as long as you know the combo. Finger print safes are great in theory, until your fingers are dirty or the battery is dead.

For all the gun haters, I bought a gun after my grandfather, who was a cop for decades told me, "police don't prevent murders. They investigate them after the fact. It's better for you to be on trial for self defense than them be on trial for your murder."

Yes, people hurt themselves by accident with guns. Training, responsibility, and safety will prevent this.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2018, 07:24:06 PM by Indexer »

leland

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Re: Buy a Mustachian Gun? Or Facepunch Me
« Reply #48 on: October 07, 2018, 04:20:23 PM »
Do gold coins go with the gun as well? It's kind of like cosplaying armageddon if you have a safe with a pistol and some gold coins. Silver bullets would ward off vampires, too :)

And yes, I've thought about whether this is a viable hedge option. That said, not sure I want to last long in a world like that.

2Cent

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Re: Buy a Mustachian Gun? Or Facepunch Me
« Reply #49 on: October 08, 2018, 06:51:25 AM »
For all the gun haters, I bought a gun after my grandfather, who was a cop for decades told me, "police don't prevent murders. They investigate them after the fact. It's better for you to be on trial for self defense than them be on trial for your murder."

Yes, people hurt themselves by accident with guns. Training, responsibility, and safety will prevent this.
Shooting down a burglar sounds good in theory, but their gang/family/etc. know exactly where you live and are usually not the most reasonable and forgiving types. So the trial is not what worries me the most. Violence begets violence. The best defense is to scare them away with an alarm, lights or a dog. And if they get away with your phone or laptop let them. Not worth the risk of getting into a fight. Doesn't feel very manly, but it's the smart thing to do. And as a moustachian you probably don't have to many fancy items lying around anyway, and could easily replace them.