Author Topic: Book Request unruly child  (Read 890 times)

Heroes821

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Book Request unruly child
« on: October 23, 2017, 09:48:14 AM »
Hello internet friends.  My wife and I are having some trouble with our oldest. She has ADHD and ODD and is on some medication for those things.  We had some theft issues with her when we were moving across the country away from where she lived her whole life, but it's been good for awhile.

She's 8.5 and 1 of 3 with the newest being 2 months old.  Maybe new baby is causing issues, but she is extremely helpful, offering to feed and change the baby and way more willing to fetch baby related items than any other chores in the house. 

The issue right now is that she apparently took a credit card of my wife's that we swear was cancelled and shredded and bought multiple items at the school book fair.  This behavior has serious life consequences if repeated into adult hood, but there is a small chance explaining that will get through to her right now.

We have been considering finding her a therapist, but I was hoping someone here could recommend a book or two that offers some advice to get better results than yelling and constantly taking away things she enjoys.


Cranky

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Re: Book Request unruly child
« Reply #1 on: October 23, 2017, 11:33:30 AM »
I am a great fan of *How To Talk So Children Will Listen* and *Siblings Without Rivalry*, but I absolutely would find a therapist, and pronto.

Heroes821

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Re: Book Request unruly child
« Reply #2 on: October 23, 2017, 12:08:20 PM »
Thanks Cranky, I'll see if my library has those.

BAM

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Re: Book Request unruly child
« Reply #3 on: October 23, 2017, 04:11:26 PM »
No books to recommend but another idea to consider -food sensitivities.
Our third born had ADHD, LD (learning disabillities) and ODD symptoms when he was young. He was not officially diagnosed but I did work with special needs kids and the symptoms were very similar. We accidentally found out that he was super sensitive to corn syrup. After three weeks off the corn syrup, he was a totally different child. Much calmer and able to focus. Able to learn. And in the "normal" range as far as the ODD type symptoms. He is still my most argumentative, stubborn, defiant child but oh so much better than he was on corn syrup.
We figure it out when he was 3 (a special diet for the whole family led to the discovery). Then let him retry corn syrup when he was 14. Within a couple weeks it was back. So he is now off it again (age 16 now).
For him, it takes two weeks to get it completely out of his system. AND he can't have any corn syrup at all - no high fructose, regular, sweetener made from corn, etc - not even if it is listed as 2% or less. It will mess him up for 2 weeks.
Just another thought for you.

GizmoTX

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Re: Book Request unruly child
« Reply #4 on: October 23, 2017, 08:44:41 PM »
Did you return the items that she purchased or are you having her do extra chores to pay for them?

Heroes821

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Re: Book Request unruly child
« Reply #5 on: October 24, 2017, 06:42:40 AM »
No books to recommend but another idea to consider -food sensitivities.
Our third born had ADHD, LD (learning disabillities) and ODD symptoms when he was young. He was not officially diagnosed but I did work with special needs kids and the symptoms were very similar. We accidentally found out that he was super sensitive to corn syrup. After three weeks off the corn syrup, he was a totally different child. Much calmer and able to focus. Able to learn. And in the "normal" range as far as the ODD type symptoms. He is still my most argumentative, stubborn, defiant child but oh so much better than he was on corn syrup.
We figure it out when he was 3 (a special diet for the whole family led to the discovery). Then let him retry corn syrup when he was 14. Within a couple weeks it was back. So he is now off it again (age 16 now).
For him, it takes two weeks to get it completely out of his system. AND he can't have any corn syrup at all - no high fructose, regular, sweetener made from corn, etc - not even if it is listed as 2% or less. It will mess him up for 2 weeks.
Just another thought for you.

I will bring this up to my wife, she is a medical professional with a background in pharmacy so she is stubborn around things that aren't medication.  You are also not the first person to suggest diet. I only came into her life two years ago when she was six so it's still difficult for me to feel like it's my place to make those kinds of suggestions.

Did you return the items that she purchased or are you having her do extra chores to pay for them?

Apparently, in a complete lack of security and I can't imagine how they remain PCI compliant, Scholastic book sales card reader doesn't actually charge anything until the device is sent back to Scholastic.  So it just took the debit card as credit because it wasn't expired and didn't even bother checking that the account is active or has money.  It would of gotten declined back at home base and Scholastic told the librarian that this happens all the time. 

3 of 5 items were returned there are 2 books missing, but they are not at our house or in her class room. Since the one recovered item from Friday was found as a given gift to the teacher we think they were given to other students.  The librarian and Scholastic are both telling us "w/e don't worry about it losses to product happen all the time" we are frustrated and upset that we cannot return them at this time.  We'll see if they show up later in the week.

For now nothing is owed money wise, if it was she would get some kind of work or extra chores to pay it off. For now she is grounded which has the extra unfortunate side effect that one of her grandpas is coming to stay for the week and now she's been told she won't be able to go do things.  Our thinking behind this is that I had a close cousin who ended up being a felon and wanted for arrest in at least 4 states that my family was aware of, and as a whole my family has always said it stemmed back to how his parents never followed through on any form of punishments.  If he was grounded and they had already planned to go to Cedar Point then they went to Cedar Point. They were unable to punish themselves to teach him consequences to his actions and as a result his life was filled with bad and worse choices.


Freedomin5

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Re: Book Request unruly child
« Reply #6 on: October 24, 2017, 07:39:52 AM »
Parenting with Love and Logic
The ADHD Diet
The Explosive Child
Raising Human Beings

And definitely find a therapist ASAP with experience working with kids with ADHD/ODD and with their parents, as you need to parent these kids using different approaches and strategies. She is already 8, and we know early and intensive intervention is much more effective than late intervention.

GizmoTX

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Re: Book Request unruly child
« Reply #7 on: October 24, 2017, 12:18:19 PM »
I am a huge fan of Love & Logic. When a child realizes he will always have natural or logical consequences for misbehavior, he learns to make better choices & exercise self control. I know it can be tough to come up with an appropriate consequence, which is why parents so often resort to punishment (or lectures), but discipline is much more effective. One thing that L&L stresses is to NOT name what the consequence will be in advance, as some kids decide it's OK. Better to keep them guessing. When DS realized early on that I would always impose a consequence, I rarely had to -- just asking him if he was 'choosing a consequence' was enough to make him stop & consider his choices. And then I didn't have to figure out what the consequence would be.

Will grounding your daughter mean that the rest of the family, especially grandpa, will also be punished? That's not fair or effective. I'm not suggesting your daughter is doing this, but some kids will misbehave precisely to get back at the family or family members, or for the attention. Or they really believe they won't get caught, which does get easier as they age. Your daughter does need to understand that rebuilding your trust will take time & is directly up to her to repair, in addition to any consequence. Punishment lets the miscreant off the hook, so to speak.

I agree that understanding the motivation for the behavior would help you to choose an effective logical consequence, & a therapist might be the quickest way to accomplish this. This isn't about blaming ADHD or a new baby or whatever, but understanding why she thinks the misbehavior is OK. DS was diagnosed early with learning differences & initially tried to make this an excuse, but we refused to let that happen. L&L taught us how to ease up & allow DS much more control over his life while expecting (& getting) good citizenship in our home & community.

Heroes821

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Re: Book Request unruly child
« Reply #8 on: October 24, 2017, 12:52:23 PM »
I don't think grandpa will feel punished or anyone else.  I am a natural homebody/introvert so it's easy for one of 3 adults (with grandpa in town) to stay at home with her if they go to the park or to the city or a movie etc.

We'll still have plenty of homework and family dinner time together so he will get to spend time with her and do stuff. Just maybe not the same stuff he gets to do with her brother this trip.

Love and Logic now that it's been mentioned is definitely one of the books I was thinking about but couldn't remember when I made this post.  My wife's therapist works with children and is definitely supportive of seeing both of them separately and together if needed.  I believe my wife got an appointment scheduled but I don't have the details at work.

Pigeon

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Re: Book Request unruly child
« Reply #9 on: October 28, 2017, 07:02:08 PM »
I completely agree with getting a therapist who specializes in children with ADHD and ODD.  I wouldn't mess around with your wife's therapist (other than to get a recommendation).

Freedomin5

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Re: Book Request unruly child
« Reply #10 on: October 29, 2017, 12:13:16 AM »
I completely agree with getting a therapist who specializes in children with ADHD and ODD.  I wouldn't mess around with your wife's therapist (other than to get a recommendation).

Yes, not all therapists are created equally. Make sure your wife's therapist is trained and experienced in working with children specifically with ADHD/ODD/executive functioning deficits.