Best financial software?

[Daleth]

I want something that works like, say, Microsoft Money used to work (except, um, BETTER). In other words I want something that downloads all my account information from various institutions, puts it into categories that I create, can make reports showing where my money is going, etc. And I do NOT want it to put my data on the cloud, and I do NOT want to have to "upgrade" every year just to keep the stupid program working. Oh, and I have a Mac.

Any suggestions?

[NorCal]

I strongly recommend Quicken, although it isn't broadly favored on this forum.

It meets your requirements, and can do plenty more if you ever want it to.  I've found the price to be well worth it once my financial life got moderately complicated (multiple retirement accounts, brokerage accounts, other assets, etc).

[Daleth]

I actually bought Quicken for Mac 2015, and have been faced with several hassles already before even installing it. I had to go through their help line and download an update before it would even let me try to set up my accounts. Needing an update in 2015 to even be able to start using a product named "X 2015" doesn't seem like a good sign, but since I already own it I hope you're right that it fits the bill.

[NorCal]

Ah, I missed the part where you have a Mac.  Quicken for Mac isn't nearly as well regarded as the PC version.  I haven't used it personally, so I can't speak from experience, but I've read some bad reviews.

Since you've already made the purchase, I recommend spending some time setting it up and learning the interface.  If it doesn't work for you, YNAB seems to be the next best recommended program.

As a general rule, I've found Quicken a little quirky around certain issues.  It also takes a while to get set up and accustomed to the journal format.  But once you get it set up, it tracks absolutely everything you ever need.  Also take the time to figure out which features you want to use, and which you'll ignore. 

[SoftwareGoddess]

... and I do NOT want to have to "upgrade" every year just to keep the stupid program working.

You won't have to upgrade every year, but I am fairly certain that you will have to upgrade every three years or else lose your on-line banking capability. In my case, I used to manually download the transaction files, but after three years of use, Quicken began to refuse to import them. The stupidest part of this was that it didn't tell me why or suggest that it wanted me to upgrade. I had to search the internet to find that out.

[Daleth]

In my case, I used to manually download the transaction files, but after three years of use, Quicken began to refuse to import them. The stupidest part of this was that it didn't tell me why or suggest that it wanted me to upgrade. I had to search the internet to find that out.

Omg how annoying. Thanks for the advice.

[Spork]

In general, ANY software will need some amount of upgrades -- if for nothing else, for bug fixes and especially security fixes.  This seems REALLY important when it comes to financial software that logs into your bank!

But back to your question.  This is a fairly frequently asked question and I'll give my frequently answered opinion:  gnucash.  I've used it approximately 15 years.  It runs on Mac/Windows/Linux, but pretty much came from the Linux world.  I can't vouch for the non-Linux platforms, but on a well maintained Linux distribution, regular updates just happen and even with major upgrades over 15 years, I've never had issues.

I don't know if it will log into your particular bank and "just work."  There are hooks for that, but not all banks are supported.  Personally, I really don't like tying accounts magically into software, but I'm a bit of a security paranoid person.  (I'm a retired IT security guy.  I pretty much see everything as a threat.)  I also think visiting finances on a regular basis keeps me well connected to my spending/saving habits.

[SoftwareGoddess]

+1 for GnuCash. I switched to it after Quicken quit importing my transactions, and I love it. I find the double-entry bookkeeping paradigm much easier to understand than Quicken's categories. Perhaps I was an accountant in another life. :-)

FWIW, I am using it on a Windows machine.

[Spork]

+1 for GnuCash. I switched to it after Quicken quit importing my transactions, and I love it. I find the double-entry bookkeeping paradigm much easier to understand than Quicken's categories. Perhaps I was an accountant in another life. :-)

FWIW, I am using it on a Windows machine.

Yeah, that.  It's more accurate as to general accounting principles.  It forces you to comprehend expenses/income/assets/liabilities. 

[flower]

I just started using GnuCash and I like it so far but am not understanding how to use it with multiple currencies. As a US expat it would be nice to be able to figure out how to use dollars and euros together.

Is there a good tutorial available for GnuCash? The online one on their website just confused me.

[SoftwareGoddess]

I just started using GnuCash and I like it so far but am not understanding how to use it with multiple currencies. As a US expat it would be nice to be able to figure out how to use dollars and euros together.

Is there a good tutorial available for GnuCash? The online one on their website just confused me.

I'm not an expert, but I do use GnuCash with two currencies. I don't want to hijack the OP's thread, so maybe you could send me a private message with specific questions, and I will try to help.

[monstermonster]

I'm a YNAB devotee, but it's definitely got a strong philosophy and a bit of a different "method". But it's also amazing for manual entry and planning.

[elaine amj]

I just started using GnuCash and I like it so far but am not understanding how to use it with multiple currencies. As a US expat it would be nice to be able to figure out how to use dollars and euros together.

Is there a good tutorial available for GnuCash? The online one on their website just confused me.

I'm not an expert, but I do use GnuCash with two currencies. I don't want to hijack the OP's thread, so maybe you could send me a private message with specific questions, and I will try to help.

Gnucash can handle multiple currencies? Do you find it smooth (i.e. does it handle it well?). I recently started using YNAB and really like the philosophy and methodology. But struggle a bit with the lack of multiple currency support since we spend in both the US and Canada. I'd also like to be able to better track our investments but really haven't found a good way to manage that yet.

[SoftwareGoddess]

Gnucash can handle multiple currencies? Do you find it smooth (i.e. does it handle it well?). I recently started using YNAB and really like the philosophy and methodology. But struggle a bit with the lack of multiple currency support since we spend in both the US and Canada. I'd also like to be able to better track our investments but really haven't found a good way to manage that yet.

I haven't had any problem with multiple currencies, though I do find the Transfer dialog box (used to transfer amounts between accounts of different currencies) to be a little cryptic, but it always works in the end.

GnuCash has features to track and update exchange rates, but I don't use them, so I have no opinion there. I don't attempt to keep track of the value of my US$ accounts in Canadian dollars or vice versa. When I record a currency exchange transaction, I just enter the exchange rate that is in force at the time.

The GnuCash guide has a section on managing investments. You can check it out and see whether it sounds like something that would work for you: http://www.gnucash.org/docs/v2.6/C/gnucash-guide/

[Spork]

I just started using GnuCash and I like it so far but am not understanding how to use it with multiple currencies. As a US expat it would be nice to be able to figure out how to use dollars and euros together.

Is there a good tutorial available for GnuCash? The online one on their website just confused me.

I'm not an expert, but I do use GnuCash with two currencies. I don't want to hijack the OP's thread, so maybe you could send me a private message with specific questions, and I will try to help.

Gnucash can handle multiple currencies? Do you find it smooth (i.e. does it handle it well?). I recently started using YNAB and really like the philosophy and methodology. But struggle a bit with the lack of multiple currency support since we spend in both the US and Canada. I'd also like to be able to better track our investments but really haven't found a good way to manage that yet.

[caveat: I don't explicitly do multiple currencies, but...]

Multiple currencies is really not a lot different than buying stocks or mutual funds.  Stocks, for example, are "their own currency".  You deal in shares of MMM, not in dollars of MMM.

If you want to make is more seamless, you can enable Trading in gnucash... and you force all multiple currency transactions through the Trading account type.  This basically absorbs those fractions of a cent rounding errors that are going to occur.

I don't actually go to that level of detail, since I'm only converting between dollars and shares.  If I were converting between USD and a foreign currency on a regular basis, I might.

[cjottawa]

I tried Quicken.

I returned it for a full refund; it used to be good (many, many years ago). Now, after a huge redesign, it has "modules" that are fundamentally broken and don't talk to each other. It has no coherent "cash flow plan" which is exactly what I want financial management software for.

The requirement to "pay to play" every year or three is another dealbreaker. I suspect they'll eventually go to a straight monthly subscription model; they really want you to keep paying over and over.

I get lynched for recommending it but: use Microsoft Money. The "sunset edition" is FREE, fully unlocked, has a cashflow plan that works, and has a "lifetime planner" that you can change the assumptions in. (rate of growth, tax rates etc).

It's completely "offline," so people citing "security concerns" are talking out of their asses. You can still import your bank downloads into it, but it's quasi-manually: you download a Quicken .QFX file or .OFX (open financial exchange) format file, then import it into MS Money. It reads the data and adds it to whatever the linked account is.

EDIT - I see you're on a Mac. You'd have to run some kind of emulator to get Money working.

I know people who use "iBank" or "YNAB" for Mac.

[Spork]

I get lynched for recommending it but: use Microsoft Money. The "sunset edition" is fully unlocked, has a cashflow plan that works, and has a "lifetime planner" that you can change the assumptions in. (rate of growth, tax rates etc).

Nah.  I am a full on Microsoft hater.  I used MSMoney for a few years back in the 90s and I actually was surprised how good it was then.  But as a Unix boy, I was having to keep a machine (or VM) that was *just for accounting*... and that sucked.  I also wanted to do more toying with the data on the back end -- and didn't want to go down the road of doing that in a MS environment.

But it used to be damn nice.

[Daleth]

I actually do have an emulator on my Mac, and used to use Microsoft Money back in the day. It might be worth it, as you're describing it. Last night I paid a credit card from my checking account and entered the transaction into Quicken, and for fvck's sake, it could NOT UNDERSTAND that the money had moved from Account A to Account B. It showed the transaction in one account but not the other. And then I downloaded some transactions, found a few that made no sense (alleged Amazon purchases that don't show up on my actual Amazon.com "My Orders" page), and wasted 10 minutes discovering that there is apparently no longer any way to flag a transaction for later review. HATE!!!!

[tarheeldan]

Sounds like a bug but in case it wasn't: you did use the transfer category for the payment from checking to card right? So the entry in your checking would be categorized as "[credit card]", and Quicken should automatically enter the corresponding entry categorized "[checking]" in the credit card account.

[LouisPritchard]

I think you should try YNAB if it's just for personal finances. You have to log into your bank account and export/import transactions manually but I found once the majority of the places I spend money and the categories were set this takes all of a minute or two to do, it's really not a big deal at all and even less headache than keeping the automatic imports going with other software I've used. The reports are very simple to see where your expenses are and I can't find anything that I wish it did. Also for the cloud thing it can save to your dropbox if you want to use your phone, but for just PC use it keeps it local. 

[cjottawa]

I actually do have an emulator on my Mac, and used to use Microsoft Money back in the day. It might be worth it, as you're describing it. Last night I paid a credit card from my checking account and entered the transaction into Quicken, and for fvck's sake, it could NOT UNDERSTAND that the money had moved from Account A to Account B. It showed the transaction in one account but not the other. And then I downloaded some transactions, found a few that made no sense (alleged Amazon purchases that don't show up on my actual Amazon.com "My Orders" page), and wasted 10 minutes discovering that there is apparently no longer any way to flag a transaction for later review. HATE!!!!

Yup. That's Quicken now. It's been nerfed. Totally useless.

I tried. Really, I tried. I went to online forums to try to figure out if it was something I was doing wrong. I wasn't. Other "power users" (and by that I mean "anyone who actually knows what financial software is for") were saying the same thing... Quicken is dead.

I am open to finding a solution that works but for now, Money is ticking along beautifully.

[Debts_of_Despair]

iBank is what you want.

[MDM]

Quicken, 22 years and counting.  Had to ask for support maybe two or three times, with successful resolutions.

Agree with other comments that it could be better and sometimes seems to get worse with new releases, but even with upgrades every 3 years it handles pretty much everything we want for a lot less than the cost of our time to roll our own solution.

[elaine amj]

YNAB is moving to a subscription model - with automatic downloads of your statements.

I'm in my 3rd month with YNAB4 and overall, I like it. I particularly like the philosophy and the method. DH would never agree with automatic downloads so I manually download each statement. It is nice to have the app and we are trying to train ourselves to use it more consistently. I download statements every 1-2 weeks.

It has been really helpful to track our spending on a more granular level. We have always had a massive buffer in our bank account and are used to spending without tracking. We have tracked our net worth annually - but I couldn't tell you exactly how much we put aside for savings last year or how much we actually spent through the year. I have a rough idea in my head - but no clue as to exact amounts. It's been fun doing stuff like challenging ourselves to reduce our grocery budgets.

The big issue I have with YNAB is right now I am only using it for spending. I am struggling with changing my mindset to use it to control my spending. You are supposed to look at how much you have budgeted for that category and stop yourself once you have maxed out the category. I am still spending as I please and I just shift (WAM) money in the different categories around. I see the genius in the method - but have not been able to actually do it yet.

[cjottawa]

@elaine:

My financial management philosophy has changed over the years. It used to resemble yours.

Now, I set a goal (retirement date) and work backwards ($x required to be saved each year/month).
Anything else I have left over, I'm free to do with as I please. (provided I never go into debt)

Way less stress.

Disclosure: I do track income and expenses to the penny, sometimes daily, never less frequently than weekly. I know my cash-flow picture two months out. ($800 surplus until January, for example, with all scheduled bills and projected expenses taken care of)

Oh, and I HATE subscription models and avoid them like the plague. I pay for "utilities" - when I buy an app, I don't want "an ongoing relationship" with its maker. I guess YNAB is out for me in future.

[NextTime]

Thought about getting YNAB until I just heard about this monthly subscription thing.

Anybody have more info on that?

[xDavidx]

I use Mac primarily at home.

I used Quicken for years. It was good but got worse over time. The Mac versions are really bad.

I tried gnucash about 10 years ago but did not like it as much.

For the last few years I used YNAB. It works great, but was missing a lot of features I wanted. A few weeks ago I switched to MoneyDance after considering iBank. I much prefer MoneyDance to YNAB, but would still like to try iBank.

[cjottawa]

I use Mac primarily at home.

I used Quicken for years. It was good but got worse over time. The Mac versions are really bad.

I tried gnucash about 10 years ago but did not like it as much.

For the last few years I used YNAB. It works great, but was missing a lot of features I wanted. A few weeks ago I switched to MoneyDance after considering iBank. I much prefer MoneyDance to YNAB, but would still like to try iBank.

A "smarty brainy" friend of mine who used to use MS Money switched to iBank and loves it; she uses the Mac and iPhone versions as they talk to each other. I believe she uses them in the same was as I use MS Money: daily/weekly/monthly cashflow, as well as investment tracking. Looked slick when I watched her using them; I'm on PC/Android so I can't use them.

[elaine amj]

Moneydance looks very very interesting. Although the $50 is a little hard to swallow. But - if it does the job...

I am looking for something that is like YNAB, but also handles investments, and handles foreign currencies. A brief look at Moneydance shows that it handles all.

I might be persuaded the jump the YNAB ship....please do keep us updated on your Moneydance experiences.

[kungfujd]

Has anyone tried personal capital or mint? In a cursory review, it seems like gnucash is arcane and if there are bugs, you have to be a developer to figure out what is wrong.

[NorCal]

I had a bad experience with Mint a few years back.  Every time my bank updated their back-end software (which wasn't uncommon), synchronizations would stop working.  The only way to fix this was to delete the account and start over.  Every time this happened, I lost my entire spending history.  It wasn't worth the hassle. 

I like Personal Capital for their investment tracking and managing asset allocations.  I haven't used it for expense tracking.

After my Mint experience, I won't use an online service for any of my "long term" tracking.  I am willing to pay money to keep all of my financial history kept on my own machine and backed up locally.  I own it and can edit it how I see fit.

[beltim]

Quicken 2007 for Mac still has more features than the most recent release (2015?). It still works with every bank I use and works on the newest version of OS X if you download an update. 2015 is prettier, but had cut out all of the functions of 2007 I use.

I tried iBank and Moneydance a year or two ago and while they were fine for tracking expenses, they were terrible for tracking investments.

[RWD]

I also use GnuCash. Multiple currencies has worked fine for me as well.

[Bould170]

Moneydance looks very very interesting. Although the $50 is a little hard to swallow. But - if it does the job...

I am looking for something that is like YNAB, but also handles investments, and handles foreign currencies. A brief look at Moneydance shows that it handles all.

I might be persuaded the jump the YNAB ship....please do keep us updated on your Moneydance experiences.

I've been using Moneydance since 2010. It was great back then, but the recent updates (free) have made it a little less awesome. Budgeting has some goofiness and I get some lingering downloaded transactions that pop up every other time I open the software. It does handle multiple currencies and complicated stock portfolios well - one of the best I've seen. I've looked around at iBank, YNAB, and a handful of other Mac software packages when I abandoned Quicken. Moneydance won for me then, but your mileage may vary today.