Apple computers worth the sticker price?

[skunkfunk]

buy a refurb machine with ~ 8GB ram and something with say 4 cores and throw linux mint on it: http://www.linuxmint.com/ should handle your needs just fine.

Think you missed the part where all of these guys hate free software. It's free, it's gotta suck.

And if you want OSX flavors, you can set it up that way, sorta (never used OsX, just add a dock and some compiz effects I guess?) Last clone attempt got bought out by Apple, supposedly, though.

[windypig]

buy a refurb machine with ~ 8GB ram and something with say 4 cores and throw linux mint on it: http://www.linuxmint.com/ should handle your needs just fine.

Think you missed the part where all of these guys hate free software. It's free, it's gotta suck.

And if you want OSX flavors, you can set it up that way, sorta (never used OsX, just add a dock and some compiz effects I guess?) Last clone attempt got bought out by Apple, supposedly, though.

heh, guess they dont know that 44/45 of the fastest supercomputers run free open source software (some distro of linux) - o and so do their republic wireless or whatever android phones, o yea and this website which is powered by nginx web server, o yea and basically 99% of the websites they visit.

[FunkyStickman]

Three words:

Steam on Linux.

;)

[windypig]

Three words:

Steam on Linux.

;)

netflix on chrome on linux now too

[windypig]

If its an aesthetic you are going for Elementary OS (another linux version) looks a lot like OS X http://elementaryos.org/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWoo4xv-qoA#t=39

[arebelspy]

It is amazing to me - mind-boggling even - how many narrow-minded people there are, even here on the MMM forums.

I run Windows and Linux, personally.  But I understand why others might choose other OSes.  I don't try to force them to use my OS.

On mobile, I prefer iOS. But I don't tell Android fans they're idiots.  If you like Android, more power to you.  Hell, use a Blackberry or dumb phone for all I care.

The irony of someone shaking their head at someone who only uses one OS while telling them they have to use this one other OS instead makes me laugh.

"I have to have an Apple computer" is as narrow minded as "Linux is the only acceptable solution to your problem," they're just opposite sides of the same coin.

Oh, and let's throw in some straw men, too.

buy a refurb machine with ~ 8GB ram and something with say 4 cores and throw linux mint on it: http://www.linuxmint.com/ should handle your needs just fine.

Think you missed the part where all of these guys hate free software. It's free, it's gotta suck.

THERE we go, now we're good.

How about people decide what they like, and let them enjoy it?  :)

[windypig]

THERE we go, now we're good.

How about people decide what they like, and let them enjoy it?  :)

They originally asked:

So what do you think - are the iMac or Mac mini worth the price?  Do you have any other recommendations or suggestions?

They asked for advice and we gave it. If they said I must have OS X, how can I do it as cheap as possible then I wouldnt have brought up linux but many people dont even know its an option.

[skunkfunk]

buy a refurb machine with ~ 8GB ram and something with say 4 cores and throw linux mint on it: http://www.linuxmint.com/ should handle your needs just fine.

Think you missed the part where all of these guys hate free software. It's free, it's gotta suck.

THERE we go, now we're good.

How about people decide what they like, and let them enjoy it?  :)

How about they try that shit before they decide it sucks. Now I would try OS X myself, for instance, but it's expensive. I won't say it sucks, but I will say you shouldn't buy it without having checked out the free alternatives. Certainly more friendly to me than windows, probably due to the unix-like qualities. Linux is free to try so there's really no reason not to.

I don't think OS X and Windows are useless and people who use them are idiots, they have their place. That said, anybody on a forum like this has a strong chance of enjoying Linux. There is much to learn and much to do in the FOSS world that aligns well with our general principles around here.

I'm sure I would like and enjoy a 2014 dually F350 diesel supercrew or whatever-the-hell they're called, but after trying my 1991 K1500 for my needs I find the outlay unnecessary.

[arebelspy]

buy a refurb machine with ~ 8GB ram and something with say 4 cores and throw linux mint on it: http://www.linuxmint.com/ should handle your needs just fine.

Think you missed the part where all of these guys hate free software. It's free, it's gotta suck.

THERE we go, now we're good.

How about people decide what they like, and let them enjoy it?  :)

How about they try that shit before they decide it sucks. Now I would try OS X myself, for instance, but it's expensive. I won't say it sucks, but I will say you shouldn't buy it without having checked out the free alternatives.

1) Why do you assume they haven't?

2) How do you know which is better without having tried both?  All you know is that one fits your use scenario.  That may be enough, for you.  But it doesn't mean the other isn't better.  It doesn't mean that it fits the other person's use case.

[skunkfunk]

buy a refurb machine with ~ 8GB ram and something with say 4 cores and throw linux mint on it: http://www.linuxmint.com/ should handle your needs just fine.

Think you missed the part where all of these guys hate free software. It's free, it's gotta suck.

THERE we go, now we're good.

How about people decide what they like, and let them enjoy it?  :)

How about they try that shit before they decide it sucks. Now I would try OS X myself, for instance, but it's expensive. I won't say it sucks, but I will say you shouldn't buy it without having checked out the free alternatives.

1) Why do you assume they haven't?

2) How do you know which is better without having tried both?  All you know is that one fits your use scenario.  That may be enough, for you.  But it doesn't mean the other isn't better.  It doesn't mean that it fits the other person's use case.

I've managed to make it work for everything I've tried outside of BIM with AutoCAD Revit. Rarely find anything that can't be done either natively or through WINE. Admittedly the more complicated stuff can get quite involved with package management, config files, and even coding to be done but again I've learned more about software working on this stuff than I did in engineering school.

That said, I think it's been brought up enough that they woulda chimed in if they'd tried it and hated it. Why bother recommending anything if we can't test that persons exact use case?

EDIT: Not trying to flame you, I'm just being abrasive today.

[arebelspy]

Sure.

I'm just frustrated with the narrow-mindedness I've been seeing a lot of lately.

This is just one example.

Just because you have an opinion on something doesn't make your opinion correct, or mean that you have to force it on someone else.

That applies generally, not just to this particular topic.

To each his own.  Including, ironically, stubbornness and intolerant viewpoints.

I agree with your opinions, skunkfunk.  Just not the way you express them.  So my posts were not so much about you, but about a trend I've seen more and more among Mustachians on the forums.  Way X is right, and I refuse to open my mind to anything else.

Ah well.

Have a nice nice day, skunkfunk.

[NeighborGuy]

Because you want OS X.  So the question is do you get the used Mac or the new one?  It's not about getting a Chromebook or not.  That's not an option if you want OS X.

Given the OP's requirements...

Her home computer use is personal, not for business - mostly surfing the internet, writing and playing Facebook-type online games.  She wants a desktop because she says it will last longer, have fewer problems and be easier to repair.  The computer would need to be wifi-enabled to make it easier to connect to our home internet.

...there seems to be no rational reason to pay a single penny more for OSX. Nothing listed above requires more than offered by Chrome OS, and even the user interface differences should be moot when all the OP needs the computer for is a browser. Unless the OP left something out, every dollar over $200 is an Apple logo fee.

[Turkey Leg]

2) How do you know which is better without having tried both?  All you know is that one fits your use scenario.  That may be enough, for you.  But it doesn't mean the other isn't better.  It doesn't mean that it fits the other person's use case.

Here's an informed Windows vs. Mac opinion: I make my living as a web developer, and our only choice at work is Windows. My home is 100% Macs. My extended family all uses Macs (from web-surfing elderly parents to my science nerd son-in-law who programs an arduino using his MacBook Pro).

Macs are better, because the hardware is better quality, the software is better quality, and the hardware and software are made by the same company. (They both behave better together.)

Our church's PowerPoint slides (with embedded videos and using animation) are run on an 8-yr-old black MacBook. The audio (entire service) is being recorded through that same Mac at the same time. That old Mac doesn't miss a beat. It replaced a 4 year old Dell that couldn't cut it.

What do I spend all my time on when I do tech support for church: the Windows machines (both Dells) someone decided our pastor and secretary needed.

Linux might be a viable option for me (a nerd), but I don't think it would work for my non-tech family. I installed Linux on a iPod once, but that's been my only experience with it.

Sincerely,

Not a Windows Fan

[skunkfunk]

Because you want OS X.  So the question is do you get the used Mac or the new one?  It's not about getting a Chromebook or not.  That's not an option if you want OS X.

Given the OP's requirements...

Her home computer use is personal, not for business - mostly surfing the internet, writing and playing Facebook-type online games.  She wants a desktop because she says it will last longer, have fewer problems and be easier to repair.  The computer would need to be wifi-enabled to make it easier to connect to our home internet.

...there seems to be no rational reason to pay a single penny more for OSX. Nothing listed above requires more than offered by Chrome OS, and even the user interface differences should be moot when all the OP needs the computer for is a browser. Unless the OP left something out, every dollar over $200 is an Apple logo fee.

I'm glad I'm not the only one seemingly frustrated with this. I have 2 converts but for nearly a decade's work that's not so good.

Surely I haven't let this into my otherwise perfectly rational discussion right?

Just because you have an opinion on something doesn't make your opinion correct, or mean that you have to force it on someone else.

Bleh, think I'm gonna retreat to the sidelines for a while.

Linux might be a viable option for me (a nerd), but I don't think it would work for my non-tech family. I installed Linux on a iPod once, but that's been my only experience with it.

Ok one more. My 2 converts are the wife and my mother. Both of them have no desire to screw around with computers. I installed it, and rarely I'll help them with it. Usually it amounts to, "oh you want to use a program? Type it into the search bar in the upper left. Or click the icon." Honestly I do less tech support on their computers than I did with Windows. Can't say whether it'd be more or less with a mac.

[cdub]

Her home computer use is personal, not for business - mostly surfing the internet, writing and playing Facebook-type online games.  She wants a desktop because she says it will last longer, have fewer problems and be easier to repair.  The computer would need to be wifi-enabled to make it easier to connect to our home internet.

If you're just surfing the net, writing and doing Facebook then I HIGHLY recommend a Chromebook. They cost $199 and do EVERYTHING that she wants to do. Plus there is zero maintenance and zero bugs and everything backs up automatically. This is a no brainer to me. I bought my last Mac in 2007.

[arebelspy]

2) How do you know which is better without having tried both?  All you know is that one fits your use scenario.  That may be enough, for you.  But it doesn't mean the other isn't better.  It doesn't mean that it fits the other person's use case.

Here's an informed Windows vs. Mac opinion: I make my living as a web developer, and our only choice at work is Windows. My home is 100% Macs. My extended family all uses Macs (from web-surfing elderly parents to my science nerd son-in-law who programs an arduino using his MacBook Pro).

Macs are better, because the hardware is better quality, the software is better quality, and the hardware and software are made by the same company. (They both behave better together.)

Our church's PowerPoint slides (with embedded videos and using animation) are run on an 8-yr-old black MacBook. The audio (entire service) is being recorded through that same Mac at the same time. That old Mac doesn't miss a beat. It replaced a 4 year old Dell that couldn't cut it.

What do I spend all my time on when I do tech support for church: the Windows machines (both Dells) someone decided our pastor and secretary needed.

Linux might be a viable option for me (a nerd), but I don't think it would work for my non-tech family. I installed Linux on a iPod once, but that's been my only experience with it.

Sincerely,

Not a Windows Fan

Thanks for sharing an informed opinion.

I disagree, and think Linux could be set up to quite easily mimic OS X for those used to the interface, but I respect your opinion.

Because you want OS X.  So the question is do you get the used Mac or the new one?  It's not about getting a Chromebook or not.  That's not an option if you want OS X.

Given the OP's requirements...

Her home computer use is personal, not for business - mostly surfing the internet, writing and playing Facebook-type online games.  She wants a desktop because she says it will last longer, have fewer problems and be easier to repair.  The computer would need to be wifi-enabled to make it easier to connect to our home internet.

...there seems to be no rational reason to pay a single penny more for OSX. Nothing listed above requires more than offered by Chrome OS, and even the user interface differences should be moot when all the OP needs the computer for is a browser. Unless the OP left something out, every dollar over $200 is an Apple logo fee.

100% agree. For the OP's purposes they should look into a Chromebook or cheap laptop, there's no need to use an Apple product for any of that usage, unless they desired OS X for some particular reason.

[arebelspy]

I have 2 converts but for nearly a decade's work that's not so good.
...
My 2 converts

I think that's part of the problem. You're feeling like you have to "convert" people.

You don't.

Present them with options and choices and let them make an informed decision.

[golden1]

I like iOS for portable devices.  However, I had to buy a new PC last year and I chose a Lenovo AIO over an iMac for several reasons.

I wanted an all in one like an iMac, but the iMac that had comparable specs to the Lenovo I ended up with was $1000 more.  It also didn't have a touch screen and was not as upgradable.  Yes, Windows 8 is a turd, but it is still usable enough for what I need.  As much as I would have liked to have all my stuff be super compatible, I just couldn't justify the price. 

P.S.  The last two PCs I had lasted 6-7 years each.  I was able to extend the life with a few cheap RAM and graphics card upgrades - way cheaper than upgrading the whole machine every 4 years.  I always recommend not cheaping out on a lower end processor if you want a computer that will last more than 5 years. 

[TonyPlush]

Let's not forget the power of the windows complete system restore.

I've started buying the cheapest windows computer I can find. If it starts running slow, malfuctioning, or gets a terrible virus, I just restore it to the factory settings. It's like having a brand new computer. Total cost: $0.

I bought this computer 4 years ago for around $300. It ran into some trouble once or twice in that time, so I restored it. Today it runs perfectly.

Just back up your hard drive to an external before you do it. Viola. A free new computer.

[mydogismyheart]

After a good 10+ years of buying super cheap windows computer after super cheap windows computer, only to have them die and have to be rebuilt constantly.... I switched to a macbook about 4 years ago and I've never looked back.  This thing runs better than any computer I've ever used, it runs like brand new 4 years later and I've never had to rebuild it or get it fixed at all!  My parents are on their 2nd dell laptops since I purchased my Mac and they are both having major issues now and will need complete overhauls soon.  People who are computer gurus or know a computer guru who can do this work free, probably don't mind.  But we have to pay to have them fixed all the time.  I will stick with my Mac for many more years, I have friends who have Macs way older than mine who have never had an issue either.  Not 1 fix ever and they still run like brand new.  I have definitely saved money owning a mac.  I'm actually surprised that Apple sells as many as they do, since you don't need to upgrade them very often!

[skunkfunk]

After a good 10+ years of buying super cheap windows computer after super cheap windows computer, only to have them die and have to be rebuilt constantly.... I switched to a macbook about 4 years ago and I've never looked back.  This thing runs better than any computer I've ever used, it runs like brand new 4 years later and I've never had to rebuild it or get it fixed at all!  My parents are on their 2nd dell laptops since I purchased my Mac and they are both having major issues now and will need complete overhauls soon.  People who are computer gurus or know a computer guru who can do this work free, probably don't mind.  But we have to pay to have them fixed all the time.  I will stick with my Mac for many more years, I have friends who have Macs way older than mine who have never had an issue either.  Not 1 fix ever and they still run like brand new.  I have definitely saved money owning a mac.  I'm actually surprised that Apple sells as many as they do, since you don't need to upgrade them very often!

You don't really have to be a computer guru, you just have to not suck at it. Only 1 way to learn, and that is avoiding the repair shops like the plague. I use nothing but old crap and have never been to one, never had any sort of training, nothing. Just don't suck, this stuff is easy.

[NeighborGuy]

You don't really have to be a computer guru, you just have to not suck at it.

Word. Apple locks down all their stuff to make it as newb-proof as humanly possible, which is where the "stability" comes from. People can do all kinds of idiotic things with PCs because Microsoft isn't babysitting them like Apple is. Apple fans see this as a feature (and I'm not saying it isn't for many of us) but it's always been my main gripe about Apple--I don't want or need to be babysat.

[arebelspy]

After a good 10+ years of buying super cheap windows computer after super cheap windows computer, only to have them die and have to be rebuilt constantly.... I switched to a macbook about 4 years ago and I've never looked back.  This thing runs better than any computer I've ever used, it runs like brand new 4 years later and I've never had to rebuild it or get it fixed at all!  My parents are on their 2nd dell laptops since I purchased my Mac and they are both having major issues now and will need complete overhauls soon.  People who are computer gurus or know a computer guru who can do this work free, probably don't mind.  But we have to pay to have them fixed all the time.  I will stick with my Mac for many more years, I have friends who have Macs way older than mine who have never had an issue either.  Not 1 fix ever and they still run like brand new.  I have definitely saved money owning a mac.  I'm actually surprised that Apple sells as many as they do, since you don't need to upgrade them very often!

You don't really have to be a computer guru, you just have to not suck at it. Only 1 way to learn, and that is avoiding the repair shops like the plague. I use nothing but old crap and have never been to one, never had any sort of training, nothing. Just don't suck, this stuff is easy.

That's rather condescending.

Not everyone has the time or interest to learn. 

Someone who makes beautiful furniture might say "oh, making a basic table is easy, you don't have to be a carpenter, you just have to not suck at it."  That's not very helpful for the people who barely know where to start.

[skunkfunk]

After a good 10+ years of buying super cheap windows computer after super cheap windows computer, only to have them die and have to be rebuilt constantly.... I switched to a macbook about 4 years ago and I've never looked back.  This thing runs better than any computer I've ever used, it runs like brand new 4 years later and I've never had to rebuild it or get it fixed at all!  My parents are on their 2nd dell laptops since I purchased my Mac and they are both having major issues now and will need complete overhauls soon.  People who are computer gurus or know a computer guru who can do this work free, probably don't mind.  But we have to pay to have them fixed all the time.  I will stick with my Mac for many more years, I have friends who have Macs way older than mine who have never had an issue either.  Not 1 fix ever and they still run like brand new.  I have definitely saved money owning a mac.  I'm actually surprised that Apple sells as many as they do, since you don't need to upgrade them very often!

You don't really have to be a computer guru, you just have to not suck at it. Only 1 way to learn, and that is avoiding the repair shops like the plague. I use nothing but old crap and have never been to one, never had any sort of training, nothing. Just don't suck, this stuff is easy.

That's rather condescending.

Not everyone has the time or interest to learn. 

Someone who makes beautiful furniture might say "oh, making a basic table is easy, you don't have to be a carpenter, you just have to not suck at it."  That's not very helpful for the people who barely know where to start.

It's more like saying you don't have to suck to be able to paint a fence post rather than hire it out or buy a prefab.

Your analogy would be more like suggesting he assemble a computer from parts. Easy, but not something that merely not sucking will accomplish.

You are right, it was rather condescending, but then that's the style around here isn't it? "Car clowns" "Sucker consumers" "Hair on fire" "facepunch" etc.

[arebelspy]

You are right, it was rather condescending, but then that's the style around here isn't it? "Car clowns" "Sucker consumers" "Hair on fire" "facepunch" etc.

Ah, I may have found why you and I argue so much.

Imagery used to make a point is different than being outright rude.

I don't think MMM is condescending when he does a face punch or says your hair is on fire.

/shrug

[skunkfunk]

You are right, it was rather condescending, but then that's the style around here isn't it? "Car clowns" "Sucker consumers" "Hair on fire" "facepunch" etc.

Ah, I may have found why you and I argue so much.

Imagery used to make a point is different than being outright rude.

I don't think MMM is condescending when he does a face punch or says your hair is on fire.

/shrug

Ha! Perhaps so. I feel I could write far too much on this, but to avoid a discertation I'll just say that I'm 99% non-confrontational in person.

This is how the youtube comment sections happen, isn't it?

[arebelspy]

You are right, it was rather condescending, but then that's the style around here isn't it? "Car clowns" "Sucker consumers" "Hair on fire" "facepunch" etc.

Ah, I may have found why you and I argue so much.

Imagery used to make a point is different than being outright rude.

I don't think MMM is condescending when he does a face punch or says your hair is on fire.

/shrug

Ha! Perhaps so. I feel I could write far too much on this, but to avoid a discertation I'll just say that I'm 99% non-confrontational in person.

This is how the youtube comment sections happen, isn't it?

I'm not sure what you mean by this, but I read it as "people not treating others how they would in real life" (since you say you're not confrontational in person).

So why not do that?  I think as a whole Mustachians are great people, so why be condescending on the Internet just because you can be, if you wouldn't do it in real life?

I don't get that.

[skunkfunk]

You are right, it was rather condescending, but then that's the style around here isn't it? "Car clowns" "Sucker consumers" "Hair on fire" "facepunch" etc.

Ah, I may have found why you and I argue so much.

Imagery used to make a point is different than being outright rude.

I don't think MMM is condescending when he does a face punch or says your hair is on fire.

/shrug

Ha! Perhaps so. I feel I could write far too much on this, but to avoid a discertation I'll just say that I'm 99% non-confrontational in person.

This is how the youtube comment sections happen, isn't it?

I'm not sure what you mean by this, but I read it as "people not treating others how they would in real life" (since you say you're not confrontational in person).

So why not do that?  I think as a whole Mustachians are great people, so why be condescending on the Internet just because you can be, if you wouldn't do it in real life?

I don't get that.

Again, I'm not really interested in writing a thesis on this, but in a face-to-face encounter I'm just much more interested in keeping it civil and friendly. If a coworker is complaining of financial woes, I'll commiserate and perhaps gently introduce the idea that they can take control of the situation. If somebody on reddit does the same, I question the poster's intelligence and point him to these forums, e.g. the guy who makes minimum wage and buys a $30k car because the payment fits into his current lifestyle. I think that all here would agree his was a bad plan, but there was no changing his mind. At least it gave him something to think about and maybe got his attention.

Now, I know somebody's financial literacy doesn't necessarily reflect on their actual intelligence insomuch as it has to do with what you've been exposed to over time, but I have much more reason to avoid enraging a coworker than somebody on the internet. I would argue that I've a better chance of getting my point across more forcefully with the coworker than the way I do it, but there is an incentive to minimize any risk in that setting. There is little incentive for such here. It is not my intention to be a troll by any means and I hope that I'm not.

Well, in any case at least I've thought about it.

Oh, one other thing to drag us further into disagreement. Is it too early to call this an inside joke?

[arebelspy]

Again, I'm not really interested in writing a thesis on this, but in a face-to-face encounter I'm just much more interested in keeping it civil and friendly. If a coworker is complaining of financial woes, I'll commiserate and perhaps gently introduce the idea that they can take control of the situation. If somebody on reddit does the same, I question the poster's intelligence and point him to these forums, e.g. the guy who makes minimum wage and buys a $30k car because the payment fits into his current lifestyle. I think that all here would agree his was a bad plan, but there was no changing his mind. At least it gave him something to think about and maybe got his attention.

Now, I know somebody's financial literacy doesn't necessarily reflect on their actual intelligence insomuch as it has to do with what you've been exposed to over time, but I have much more reason to avoid enraging a coworker than somebody on the internet. I would argue that I've a better chance of getting my point across more forcefully with the coworker than the way I do it, but there is an incentive to minimize any risk in that setting. There is little incentive for such here. It is not my intention to be a troll by any means and I hope that I'm not.

Well, in any case at least I've thought about it.

Oh, one other thing to drag us further into disagreement. Is it too early to call this an inside joke?

I just don't see why you can't kindly point the coworker to MMM or kindly point the redditor to MMM.  Why be a dick to the one?

/shrug

I mean, I get that you're saying you would do that.  I'm questioning the why.

And that comic is in the wrong thread.  Put it in the determinism/free will one.  Do the free will people have answers to Dogbert's questions?

[skunkfunk]

I mean, I get that you're saying you would do that.  I'm questioning the why.

And that comic is in the wrong thread.  Put it in the determinism/free will one.  Do the free will people have answers to Dogbert's questions?

1. My best attempt at explanation was the incentive. I find that kindly suggestions are most frequently ignored, so default to being a bit condescending.  I'm easily irritated, I suppose. Hard question, really - why do I do anything, after all?

2. A joke referencing our most recent disagreement (I'm guessing you didn't find it as funny as I did.) We can pick that up in the other thread if you'd like.

[arebelspy]

I mean, I get that you're saying you would do that.  I'm questioning the why.

And that comic is in the wrong thread.  Put it in the determinism/free will one.  Do the free will people have answers to Dogbert's questions?

1. My best attempt at explanation was the incentive. I find that kindly suggestions are most frequently ignored, so default to being a bit condescending.  I'm easily irritated, I suppose. Hard question, really - why do I do anything, after all?

But being an asshole will get you listened to?

(I don't mean you specifically - you haven't been - I mean the idea in general of being rude or condescending on the Internet where you wouldn't be IRL.)

2. A joke referencing our most recent disagreement (I'm guessing you didn't find it as funny as I did.) We can pick that up in the other thread if you'd like.

Yeah, I found it amusing, I just thought it works better in the other thread.

[skunkfunk]

Alright, as someone that just spent - checks recipient - a face punch worthy amount of money on a new iMac I would say if it is worth the sticker price is highly dependent upon what you are doing, what sort of data you store on your computer, and a whole bunch of other factors.

Speaking for myself, I've moved from running Windows on my home desktop to getting an iMac largely because I have found that OS X has a tendency to "just work" and that some of the value adds (Time Machine, Migration Assistant, etc.) that you get with an Apple over building your own Windows or Linux box tends to mean that from the standpoint of the time that I sink into doing administrative tasks tends to be a lot less which is something I'm willing to pay the extra money for. Plus, when I switched to a iMac (started with one I got an estate sale for $40) I found that the power bill dropped by about $5 to 10 and that is in part due to the lower power draw of the iMac compared to the computer I had built.

However, I am looking at a lot of this from the standpoint of someone that uses a computer for 8+ hours a day at work to write software. When my computer fails at home I'm a lot less inclined to want to fight with it and I see the extra upfront cost as being worth it compared to the amount of time I've sunk into computers before in the past.

Oddly enough, I'd be curious to see if once you factor in the operating costs and everything else how a home built PC would weight against the iMac. If those numbers I had before were right for my old computer then over five years you are looking at $300 to 600 to operate the PC over the iMac which is a bit of a hidden cost.

I'd challenge those numbers for any typical user. There isn't $10 left to take out of my electric bill and I have 2 of  those home built PC (free salvaged parts of course) and a netbook (also salvage) and my wife's laptop.

I use them far too much.

[libertarian4321]

Oh, yes, an Apple computer is worth it -- lasts at least twice as long as a PC, can run successive operating systems, is organizationally tight, & easier to use. Windows spews stuff all over & is needlessly complex. I say this as a computer professional; I can wrangle any of them, but prefer OS X. It's just a lot more fun.

And of course, most computer professionals choose Apple.

Oh, wait, no they don't.

[libertarian4321]

She wants a desktop because she says it will last longer, have fewer problems and be easier to repair.  The computer would need to be wifi-enabled to make it easier to connect to our home internet.

If that's what she needs it for, any $229 PC should do the trick (you might have to spend another $10-20 for the wifi as some basic models won't have it as standard), you don't need a fancy Apple or the Apple premium price.

However, as someone before said, even a used PC would be fine for those tasks.

[MoneyCat]

If you are planning to do heavy video/audio recording and editing, especially if this is something that you want to turn into a side-hustle, then an Apple computer is probably the best bet.  My wife has a Mac notebook and it's pretty amazing.  If you want to do ordinary people stuff like surf the web, play a few games, stream some Netflix, use social networks, etc., then it probably isn't worthwhile to pay a lot of money for a computer.  I've been using the same Dell laptop for about three years now, which was given to me brand new and retailed for about $450.  The only problem I'm really having with it is that I'm beginning to wear the letters off the keyboard from using it so much (but I suppose I could just draw the letters back on.)  Don't spend lots of money on something unless it's really important to do so.

[Poopsio]

Macs are easy to use, get less viruses, have above-average hardware, and has good customer support @ applecare.

I've gotten things like my power cord replaced, no questions asked, at applecare. Appointments are a breeze. Most computer manufacturers require third-party people to fix your computer, shipping it in, etc. I haven't heard of any service as good as Apple's.

You give up customization, experimenting (walled garden), but you get security, reliability, and customer service. Yes, you pay, but if you take care of your mac well, it will last a long time. I know people with the original black macbook still going strong (it's almost ten years old) with no sign of letting up.

To me, the convenience of a mac is worth it.

[Poopsio]

Check slickdeals for good deals on macbook airs. 750 for a 13 inch was there before they released the new ones. That's a nice (not retina, but that's fancy) screen, SSD, great battery life, etc.

[dang1]

if you prefer a desktop, get a chromebox - desktop with chrome os, instead of a mac

[skunkfunk]

The only problem I'm really having with it is that I'm beginning to wear the letters off the keyboard from using it so much (but I suppose I could just draw the letters back on.)  Don't spend lots of money on something unless it's really important to do so.

I just bought a Dell keyboard for my wife's laptop for $17 on ebay. I have to replace some stuff since I spilled an entire beer all over the laptop.

Macs are easy to use, get less viruses, have above-average hardware, and has good customer support @ applecare.

Is that really useful? Any free OS is practically impervious to viruses, too (i.e. anything but Windows.) I've also never once wanted customer support. I tried to get some once for a business PC, but it turned out to be far more of a hassle than just fixing it myself. We also use Apple ipads and phones at the office. I've been less than impressed with the service.

Check slickdeals for good deals on macbook airs. 750 for a 13 inch was there before they released the new ones. That's a nice (not retina, but that's fancy) screen, SSD, great battery life, etc.

Am I in the wrong forum? I could swear that I wasn't in the fancypants forum. $750 for a 13 inch computer is outrageous. Check these out - http://www.dell.com/us/p/inspiron-15-3542-laptop/pd.aspx?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs

Unless you're going to do tough stuff (90% of people don't) an i3 is just fine, you'll never know the difference.

[Poopsio]

The only problem I'm really having with it is that I'm beginning to wear the letters off the keyboard from using it so much (but I suppose I could just draw the letters back on.)  Don't spend lots of money on something unless it's really important to do so.

I just bought a Dell keyboard for my wife's laptop for $17 on ebay. I have to replace some stuff since I spilled an entire beer all over the laptop.

Macs are easy to use, get less viruses, have above-average hardware, and has good customer support @ applecare.

Is that really useful? Any free OS is practically impervious to viruses, too (i.e. anything but Windows.) I've also never once wanted customer support. I tried to get some once for a business PC, but it turned out to be far more of a hassle than just fixing it myself. We also use Apple ipads and phones at the office. I've been less than impressed with the service.

Check slickdeals for good deals on macbook airs. 750 for a 13 inch was there before they released the new ones. That's a nice (not retina, but that's fancy) screen, SSD, great battery life, etc.

Am I in the wrong forum? I could swear that I wasn't in the fancypants forum. $750 for a 13 inch computer is outrageous. Check these out - http://www.dell.com/us/p/inspiron-15-3542-laptop/pd.aspx?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs

Unless you're going to do tough stuff (90% of people don't) an i3 is just fine, you'll never know the difference.

You may be right, I'm just basing my recommendations on my experience/observations. I've seen Dells go downhill relatively fast back in the XP days. I've been a student using a mac and I was very happy with how it held up to abuse (being put into backpack without a case, etc)

A computer may not even be necessary anymore, if it ever was. For word processing, go to the library. For printing, go to the library. Live near the university/library, use wifi there or starbucks, etc. For purchases/online banking, use a smartphone/tablet. For word processing, you can even use the tablet. For emails, use the tablet. Etc, etc etc. I may not even use a laptop when I'm out of school (not going to need a computer on my career path), might just go straight to the tablet and buy a keyboard.

You seem to be one of those people that can and will modify their computer hardware (I think I could be considered that too although I never went into other OSes), but having used a mac and having not dealt with any sort of issue (functions not there that I want, malfunctioning) within Apple's walled garden, I got sold on it. I'm not missing any features and although customization can be fun, I'm done with it.

[skunkfunk]

Of course, that doesn't mean it's the best for everybody as not everybody needs the best value. In fact, most people don't.

Right, I'd say nobody "needs" it really. Anything you have got to have the best equipment for is probably work-related, and if not, can probably be done better on a home PC. You may disagree but anyway I digress.

The OP clearly does not need anything fancy. Much better off churning mid-to-low-grade stuff in this case than paying top dollar for an Apple. The only issue I've had has been a netbook that won't play youtube but choppily. Seriously, how is a video now too much for rendering without a dedicated GPU? I don't know what's been happening in computers, but if my 1994 66 mhz 486 could render video why the hell does it tax the crap out of my 2009 garbage-rescue netbook?

[Poopsio]

Re: the above mention of "AppleCare", AppleCare is mathematically a ripoff. Avoid.

But as much as it pains me to say this, the MacBook Pro 15" with Retina Display is really the best value laptop available on the free market right now. Of course, that doesn't mean it's the best for everybody as not everybody needs the best value. In fact, most people don't. When people claim Apple laptops are overpriced, they generally compare them to products that are far worse, which is kind of funny. In fact, similarly high quality products available from other brands (such as Alienware) tend to be more expensive than Apple because Apple's large scale allows them cheap pricing on things like SSDs. And only Apple offers a touchpad that you can actually use for serious work, and a superior keyboard layout to any other laptop on the market, with better tactile response on the keys too.

Comments about the operating system are irrelevant because you can run arbitrary code on any computer. I personally prefer free software. I used GNU/Linux exclusively for almost my whole life. After getting a MacBook Pro, I've been using OS X just because I want to take advantage of the native hardware and native GNU/Linux support is kind of poor, but I still run GNU/Linux in a VM for some tasks.

I stress that for ordinary computer users, Apple products are probably overkill, but it really is the best value available on the free market if that's what you need (and not everybody needs that).

I'm not sure I'd be able to stomach the sticker prices, though, even though I intellectually know they represent excellent value. I got about 50% off my MacBook through an employer discount applicable to personal purchases, which made the value proposition completely beyond question. :P

It can be. They replaced my fraying charger for free. Some of their repairs have high costs so in that case you can go to iFixit and see what you can do. I replaced my cracked screen cover for 20 dollars using a hair drier and a knife using advice from there. Apple as a company definitely has the most people working on it and in support so I think your options are the best. Pricing, maybe not. But if you take care of it, you shouldn't need to even take it in.

[Poopsio]

AppleCare costs like $400 (aside from the first year which is included). A new charger costs around $80 for the Apple one or half that for a third party replacement.

Paying $400 to hedge against an $80 cost does not make sense.

AppleCare is like any insurance product; it's designed to be a losing bet. If you pay for AppleCare, you will usually lose money. That is why it is profitable.

That said, Apple does include one year of free AppleCare when you buy a new laptop, so of course it's worth using it for free if you have the opportunity to do so.

Sorry, I wasnt talking about applecare, I was talking about just going to the genius bar. They replaced things that were out of warranty because they weren't made that well. They didn't have to but I guess they want to keep their customers happy and it did. I've never bought applecare.