Why Won't Anyone Hop on the Bandwagon?!

[Metric Mouse]

I might use that MM - "these $10 sunnies are actually made by the same company as yours, just a different branding". Thanks!

Great idea.

[Libertea]

Now, clearly my fiction writing needs a lot of work (but it's true that I've been FIREd for four years), but I wonder whether the above was enough to make you feel *judged*? Did you feel indignation that someone else felt they knew your values better than you did? And, of course, I wonder if that's how mustachianism, as presented by some, feels to others.

No, I didn't feel judged at all.  Or indignant.  But maybe it's because I don't have any skin in the game of what other people do, per se.  Meaning, if I tell someone I'm semi-retired at age 41, and they ask how, and I tell them about FI, and they aren't into it, well, I don't really care.  It doesn't affect what I do with my life one iota; I have no problem with other people's decisions being different than mine.  I was talking to an insurance salesman yesterday who was telling me how he had bought a new BMW.  I told him I had foregone the BMW and was instead going to take a six months sabbatical from working and spend two months of that time abroad.  (As it turns out, my six months of slow travel costs way less than a new BMW would, but that's beside the point.)  He thought what I was doing was "interesting" and "unusual," but I didn't get the sense he felt judged or indignant about my decision any more than I did about his.  The only issue was that my insurance needs were a bit more complicated than he could deal with, and he had to refer me to someone else.  Shrug.

I do get what you're saying though.  Anyone who's ever been on the receiving end of an unwanted proselytism attempt by a person of a different religion knows how freaking annoying that is.  You have this fervent true believer trying to show you "the true way," and you know what?  You're already satisfied with your own true way.  You don't need theirs.  Now if you're not satisfied with your own religion, maybe a proselytizer will help you usher in a welcome change, kind of like how people sometimes find religion when they used to be atheists.  But really, when it comes down to it, no one has ever died and reliably come back, and so we don't know if belief in God or Jesus or Buddha or nothing at all is objectively "correct."  You either have faith in your religion or you don't.  It's not a logical decision, even for someone whose faith is rationalized by logic (such as Pascal and his infamous wager.)

So I think it's fine to talk to people about FI.  Especially if they ask, sure, tell them how you got to where you are.  Then let them chew on that and draw their own conclusions.  If they want to go on being consumers, that's totally fine.  Leave them to their business, and you go on with yours.

[Salim]

Now, clearly my fiction writing needs a lot of work (but it's true that I've been FIREd for four years), but I wonder whether the above was enough to make you feel *judged*? Did you feel indignation that someone else felt they knew your values better than you did? And, of course, I wonder if that's how mustachianism, as presented by some, feels to others.

So I think it's fine to talk to people about FI.  Especially if they ask, sure, tell them how you got to where you are.  Then let them chew on that and draw their own conclusions.  If they want to go on being consumers, that's totally fine.  Leave them to their business, and you go on with yours.

Yeah, judgmentalism is rampant and I get pretty tired of it, too, being a member of several minorities. I say, live and let live. At first I was very excited about sharing what I've learned here, but say little now.

I'm thinking of my sister and her husband who retired earlier than we did. My BIL was a banker in his career. He's always glad to help people who ask how to better their finances, but he's not one to offer unasked. Maybe taking that attitude was part of his training as a banker. In FIRE, he volunteers helping people do their taxes. Very smooth. He grew up very poor and now lives his dream.

[financialfreedomsloth]

Up to a couple of years ago, I used to try and convince others of things that I found interesting, or fascinating: a great documentary on Netflix, books, mustachianism, Joe Rogan, Bigger Pockets, jiu jitsu, and archery.  No longer.  There's too little time to waste mine trying to convince others of what I know is awesome (with the caveat, to me, yes yes, but I think they're awesome if people gave them a shot.)

Agreed!
Personally I am not going to talk about it too much to other people either. I am not going to hide it but in Belgium, realistically, achieving FIRE takes about 20 years of working. So I am going to be 45 -47’ish. Most people I meet are also in their 40’s. Add another 20 years and they can retire anyway.
In Belgium you either stumble upon MMM while young and you do not need me talking about it, or you are naturally frugal and investing orientated in which case a slight nudge towards MMM is all it takes. All other cases you either are not frugal, not open towards investing or too old anyway.
I have the luck of being natural frugal an investing orientated from a young age and have learned in the last 15 years that people either get it or never will. And if they get it they will come talk to you about it, ask questions….

When I first discovered Warren Buffett and value investing I was working in a 25 person team. It was new to me, so I talked about it. Only two co-workers found it interesting. I am still friends with them. I am also friends with some other former co-workers but we never discuss anything about investments.
Now, these other former co-workers know I did well with my investments. They know that the two co-workers who talked with me about investments also did well. They know those co-workers. One of the old co-workers got an inheritance, it is at several banks in several different funds. She asked, what should we do with it? I told her: get a list of how much is at each bank and in which funds (just the ISIN-code, with that I can find all I need to know). This was over a year ago, did she ever make that overview? Nope, a few times when we talked she said: ‘yeah, I really should make that overview’. I just replied with ‘yes, you really should’. She didn’t and she won’t. Then out of the blue she will get a call from a bank person, saying one of the funds comes at maturity date and then he will sell her another one of their crappy funds as a replacement. ...

[gerardc]

Just read through the interesting posts on this topic.

I wonder if too many people on this forum are using FIRE as others use consumption? Are you using FIRE status (current, impending or planned) as just another status item? It can be very seductive to say that one is a member of an enlightened cabal (insiders) when everyone else is a part of the ignorant masses (outsiders). "Everyone is a sukka because they can't/won't make FIRE a priority in their lives, and need to face punch themselves."

Luckily, I managed to find a group of people who don't use FIRE to seek extrinsic goals (i.e. getting value from FIRE through the perceptions of others), but instead for intrinsic goals (what FIRE enables them to do in accordance with their values to make them happy). I'm so fortunate to have met them, and can't imagine what it would be like to dwell on my FIREd status (which I've been for four years now). We rarely talk about our access to resources per we - It's far more interesting to talk about the impact we're having on the world, being fortunate enough to free ourselves from working merely to earn a living (i.e. be higher up in Maslow's hierarchy, as it were).

Interesting. I definitely feel like since discovering MMM, my FIRE mentality has shifted somewhat, from a means to an end, to some status in itself. I've slowly slid into the mold that the community provides, with pre-made answers and theories, but unfortunately blurring some particular ideas or feelings I had specifically for myself that don't apply much to the general FIRE population.

[Metric Mouse]

Just read through the interesting posts on this topic.

I wonder if too many people on this forum are using FIRE as others use consumption? Are you using FIRE status (current, impending or planned) as just another status item? It can be very seductive to say that one is a member of an enlightened cabal (insiders) when everyone else is a part of the ignorant masses (outsiders). "Everyone is a sukka because they can't/won't make FIRE a priority in their lives, and need to face punch themselves."

Luckily, I managed to find a group of people who don't use FIRE to seek extrinsic goals (i.e. getting value from FIRE through the perceptions of others), but instead for intrinsic goals (what FIRE enables them to do in accordance with their values to make them happy). I'm so fortunate to have met them, and can't imagine what it would be like to dwell on my FIREd status (which I've been for four years now). We rarely talk about our access to resources per we - It's far more interesting to talk about the impact we're having on the world, being fortunate enough to free ourselves from working merely to earn a living (i.e. be higher up in Maslow's hierarchy, as it were).

Interesting. I definitely feel like since discovering MMM, my FIRE mentality has shifted somewhat, from a means to an end, to some status in itself. I've slowly slid into the mold that the community provides, with pre-made answers and theories, but unfortunately blurring some particular ideas or feelings I had specifically for myself that don't apply much to the general FIRE population.

Well, now is an excellent time to re-frame your goals and examine what truly makes you happy. Sometimes one needs to shake themselves out of the rut their in, even in the rut leads to FIRE.