Author Topic: What would it cost to buy you back into working?  (Read 9674 times)

Villanelle

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What would it cost to buy you back into working?
« on: August 23, 2019, 09:00:15 AM »
Over in the thread about how people would live on $400k/yr, this kind of came up.

"Making" implies "earning" which implies "work".  So no.  Premise not accepted.

Cheers.

Yep, if the $400000/yr requires going back to work I'm not interested.

  So, if you are FIREd, or have a hard date set for FIRE in the near future, what amount of money (if any) would it take to buy you back to work?  And how long would you stay?  (Let's imagine you have to commit to a contract term upfront and there will be no early termination or extension possible.)  Assume it's a job comparable to their most recent, unless you most recent was an epic misery in which case remove the extraordinary suffering and have it be a run-of-the-mill job, neither fantastic or horrific, in your field.

What's your rate, and how much of your time would you sell at that rate?

Candace

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Re: What would it cost to buy you back into working?
« Reply #1 on: August 23, 2019, 09:39:37 AM »
If I could work for one year and make $800k, I might grudgingly do it. I *might*. I'm not sure. But it would be to finance philanthropy and maybe a fancier trip or two. I have everything I need. So why would I trade what might be the best year of the rest of my life to go to an office? I had a good, easy, cushy job, and it was only four days a week. But I quit so I could do what I wanted. Why? Because life is short. I don't believe we get another go-around.

Enough, for lack of a better way to put it, is enough. I'm enjoying the LIVING HELL out of not going to work. If presented with that choice -- a year of work for $800k -- I might do it in order to give most of it to charity. But seriously, I'd only do it out of guilt over how I'd feel if I DIDN'T do it. How screwed up is that?

ysette9

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Re: What would it cost to buy you back into working?
« Reply #2 on: August 23, 2019, 09:42:03 AM »
It is basically the same question as how much longer would you continue to work once reaching your FI number, except with an activation energy to actually go back to work. I donít really know personally because we havenít quite reached The Number, but we are at the peak of our earning years so I understand the OMY syndrome well.

I think for me it comes down to the work itself. Is it interesting? Stimulating? Does it give a sense of satisfaction? Would I be doing something that matters? If none of that is in place, there isnít much draw no matter what the pay is.

Villanelle

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Re: What would it cost to buy you back into working?
« Reply #3 on: August 23, 2019, 11:44:16 AM »
It is basically the same question as how much longer would you continue to work once reaching your FI number, except with an activation energy to actually go back to work. I donít really know personally because we havenít quite reached The Number, but we are at the peak of our earning years so I understand the OMY syndrome well.

I think for me it comes down to the work itself. Is it interesting? Stimulating? Does it give a sense of satisfaction? Would I be doing something that matters? If none of that is in place, there isnít much draw no matter what the pay is.

I still haven't decided if I'm even RE.  My spouse still works and while I might travel once a year without him, I'm definitely not living the same lifestyle as I imagine us having once we are both FIRE.  I also left work assuming it would be a 2-3 year gap while we lived overseas, never imagining that that would be it for at least 9 years, and potentially for forever.  So I don't have the mindset that I was DONE FOREVER, which might help.

I'd go back for 2 years at $200k. Interestingly (or perhaps not), I find that the number needs to get higher and higher to get me back (until it reaches $200k), at which point as continues higher, the time I'd be willing to do it actually gets shorter.  For $400k, I'd do a year, *maybe* 18 months.

DH and I have discussed, theoretically only, moving to the middle east.  We have an acquaintance with a somewhat similar background to DH that got a job in Dubai.  Don't know what he makes, but the first offer was $300k, IIRC, and he turned it down.  They love it there.  I am doubtful, and also weary of being a stranger in a strange land, but for that kind of money (and the many benefits included that help moderate COL a bit), doing it for a couple of years would put us well beyond any FIRE number we need, so we'd very likely.  (To be clear, this job isn't an actual possibility and DH likely wouldn't qualify.  It's just a thought exercise.)  It's an adventure, and if it turns out to be an adventure in the way that e. coli is an adventure, it would be over in two years and would buy us complete freedom and anything we've ever wanted.

DaMa

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Re: What would it cost to buy you back into working?
« Reply #4 on: August 23, 2019, 02:43:25 PM »
If I could work part-time, 95% from home, and never have to attend BS meetings, I'd go back to work for a few years.

Freedomin5

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Re: What would it cost to buy you back into working?
« Reply #5 on: August 23, 2019, 03:29:15 PM »
I actually was considering FIRE-ing but got an offer that was worth around $200k including benefits, so now Iím going back to work for three years. My line of work is quite meaningful, so if I enjoy this position, I may stay another few years.

Greystache

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Re: What would it cost to buy you back into working?
« Reply #6 on: August 23, 2019, 06:36:40 PM »
What you are asking is how much of my life I would trade for money even though I already have enough. Stupid question.

Villanelle

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Re: What would it cost to buy you back into working?
« Reply #7 on: August 23, 2019, 07:30:33 PM »
What you are asking is how much of my life I would trade for money even though I already have enough. Stupid question.

Thanks for playing.  We have some lovely parting gifts for you. 

ysette9

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Re: What would it cost to buy you back into working?
« Reply #8 on: August 23, 2019, 08:49:11 PM »
What you are asking is how much of my life I would trade for money even though I already have enough. Stupid question.

Thanks for playing.  We have some lovely parting gifts for you.

kei te pai

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Re: What would it cost to buy you back into working?
« Reply #9 on: August 23, 2019, 09:05:55 PM »
No amount of money would get me back to my pre FIRE job. A pleasant, relaxed 2 days a week for a year max, well maybe $200k pro rata. But without any great enthusiasm.

thriftyc

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Re: What would it cost to buy you back into working?
« Reply #10 on: August 23, 2019, 10:59:13 PM »
No amount to go back to the job I am about to leave.  However, for 300k, I would go back 2-3 days a week, work from home position.

Parizade

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Re: What would it cost to buy you back into working?
« Reply #11 on: August 24, 2019, 05:19:29 PM »
No amount of money would get me back to a regular job. If I knew my efforts would stop catastrophic climate change, or effectively protect women and girls from sexual abuse and exploitation, or cure cancer, that might motivate me to go back. But not money.

Jon_Snow

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Re: What would it cost to buy you back into working?
« Reply #12 on: August 24, 2019, 09:13:47 PM »
The only way I'd consider working again would be if I needed more money, or if I thought it would make me happier. I don't anticipate either scenario.

bacchi

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Re: What would it cost to buy you back into working?
« Reply #13 on: August 25, 2019, 02:57:46 PM »
I'd consider it under certain conditions. I don't dislike work but I do dislike the schedule.

Part-time work with unlimited vacation? Sure. Give me an hourly, contract, position doing interesting work for a purpose. No BS meetings.

chrisgermany

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Re: What would it cost to buy you back into working?
« Reply #14 on: August 25, 2019, 03:02:44 PM »
I would do it for the same amount I am charged to buy more lifetime.
So: priceless.

Villanelle

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Re: What would it cost to buy you back into working?
« Reply #15 on: August 25, 2019, 03:12:20 PM »
I would do it for the same amount I am charged to buy more lifetime.
So: priceless.

You can't buy more of your own lifetime, but half a million dollars absolutely can by more lifetime for other people.

I don't know exactly where my line is, but if someone said I could have $0.5m to donate to causes of my choosing for 6 months of 40 hour work, I wouldn't hesitate for a second.  I couldn't. 

FrugalZony

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Re: What would it cost to buy you back into working?
« Reply #16 on: August 25, 2019, 07:35:01 PM »
If a 400k/year offer were on the table, I would consider going back to work for a month or two (during the winter) every year, for a few years.

I have been FIREd for 3+ years, but would love to spend more on various charitable causes. That list keeps getting longer and it bothers me to not have more money to help.
I know, there'll never be ENOUGH money to fund all those philantrophic pursuits, but 1/12 of 400k or 2x. that per year could do a lot of good.
If I could pick time and place, I'd be in.

Unfortunately it's not that easy to find something flexible you can dance in and out of that pays that well.
I am currently brainstorming for jobs to do, while I am in Winter quarters (we are nomadic most of the year), just so I can up my donations a bit.

So would I trade my time to pad the stash, me...that would take a VERY lucrative offer and tons of other factors
Would I trade my time to make a bit for money to contribute to a good cause....sure I'd do that. I right now do that mostly as a volunteer though.

mak1277

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Re: What would it cost to buy you back into working?
« Reply #17 on: August 26, 2019, 01:57:06 PM »
137 days until I resign...I would work one more year for $1 million.  But that's it.

WalkaboutStache

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Re: What would it cost to buy you back into working?
« Reply #18 on: August 27, 2019, 12:20:30 AM »
0

at the right hand side.

FreshlyFIREd

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Re: What would it cost to buy you back into working?
« Reply #19 on: August 27, 2019, 02:57:29 AM »
You either have enough - or - you don't. If you have enough, look to the reasons why you desire more of something where you already have enough.

What would you pay for access to more air - if you already have all the air you will ever need?

Under most circumstances, I think I have all of the money I will ever need. It would be foolish to return to work to accumulate more.

I would return to work - if work was the only objective. For me, freedom is so much more precious than money.

davisgang90

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Re: What would it cost to buy you back into working?
« Reply #20 on: August 27, 2019, 04:19:15 AM »
We don't need the money, but I took a part time gig (15 hours a week max) that pays $15 an hour to be an education coordinator for 2 local museums.  I was looking for a way to get better connected in the community and this fits the bill.

One of the museums is based on a famous railroad photographer, so as a semi-professional photog, it's a pretty cool gig for me.  My other passion is teaching, so the education aspect (the job covers pre-school through adult ed) makes me happy as well.

mak1277

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Re: What would it cost to buy you back into working?
« Reply #21 on: August 27, 2019, 09:03:58 AM »
You either have enough - or - you don't. If you have enough, look to the reasons why you desire more of something where you already have enough.


I have enough.  But under the right circumstances, the things I could do with "even more" are awfully appealing.

sui generis

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Re: What would it cost to buy you back into working?
« Reply #22 on: August 27, 2019, 09:23:45 AM »
No amount of money for me.  Even without the "extraordinary misery" of my last job, I wouldn't go back to it, because I hated it even when it wasn't extraordinarily miserable.  I suspect I'd hate any job I "had to" go to all the time simply because of the *obligation* of it.  I much more enjoy my volunteer activities, where I only do them for a few hours per week and I have much more autonomy and control over my schedule, even though I don't get paid at all.

Malkynn

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Re: What would it cost to buy you back into working?
« Reply #23 on: August 28, 2019, 07:05:16 AM »
I'm not even FIREd and you couldn't pay me enough to go back to work I didn't love.

I have too many options to easily make plenty of money doing what I enjoy part time.

Lukim

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Re: What would it cost to buy you back into working?
« Reply #24 on: August 28, 2019, 10:03:55 PM »
I had a plan to retire in July 2019, had sufficient money to retire and had completely lost interest in that job.

3 weeks before the retirement date, someone offered me a new and interesting project on a package of $500k a year.  I work 3 weeks a month and have 1 week off.  I accepted the offer and have just rejoined the workforce.

So my price was $500k per year and something interesting to do.

I think if I had a period of time in retirement and got into the routine of retirement it would have been much harder to drag me back.

Mr. Green

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Re: What would it cost to buy you back into working?
« Reply #25 on: August 29, 2019, 08:44:41 AM »
I suspect you'll find that for all the people happily FIREd from careers they didn't like the answer is "none." It's an unanswerable question because why would I give up my freedom for something I derive literally no benefit from. I actually thought about this a bit, like would I do one more year for $100 million? When I thought about the actual process of going back to my job it's really the same thing to me as saying I'd go to jail for a year. Jail might actually be better because at least there I don't have to pretend to look busy. I honestly can't say I'd do it, even for $100 million. Sure I'd love the baller lifestyle that money would give me. I could do basically anything without giving a thought to the cost. I could give money freely to the charitable causes I want to support, donate more to my Alma mater, etc. But I have to give up a year of my life for it - my 37th year, only the third year I've been truly free, and possibly my last free year for a long time if a child comes along. The wife and I are thinking about another big trip next year, 7-10 months on the road touring the US and Canada. I don't think $100 million would do it. I think I'd regret it later in life, like oh all this money was awesome but I maybe gave up my last opportunity for a big, wild, carefree road trip like that while I was young enough to hike 15-20 miles a day, sleep in a car, shower in hostels, see things few other people see because they have to get there to see them. I suppose that kind of money would let me throw kid in boarding school though. Then we'd still be 100% free. Lol, I'm probably making the argument for me that kids may not really be for us. Hah!
« Last Edit: August 29, 2019, 09:04:49 AM by Mr. Green »

sui generis

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Re: What would it cost to buy you back into working?
« Reply #26 on: August 29, 2019, 09:58:09 AM »
^^interesting point here.  A tangent from the actual original question, but it does become sort of a thought experiment in morality and commitment to think about saying no to lots of money that I don't need but with which I could solve a significant humanitarian problem by giving it to charity. Could I live with myself if I turned down $100MM for an important cause simply because I wasn't willing to spend one year of my life "in jail"/at a terrible job?  How selfish would I have to be to do that?  I should have 4 or more decades left, and I'm unwilling to give up 2.5% of my lifespan to help save thousands of lives or something like that?  Wow.

The scenario is extreme and thankfully no one has offered me $100MM for a one year gig, so I don't really have to wrestle with this.  But, let's say the answer is obvious and I would go back for one year for $100MM and save who knows how many lives through the charitable giving I do with that.  Where do I draw the line?  $99MM?  $10MM?  I have no idea where I could confidently say that *not* giving up x% of my remaining lifespan for $y to save z lives is not something I feel any moral guilt about.  But for now, what is on offer for me is certainly not enough lives saved for the portion of my own life I'd have to give up.

Mr. Green

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Re: What would it cost to buy you back into working?
« Reply #27 on: August 29, 2019, 07:11:30 PM »
^^interesting point here.  A tangent from the actual original question, but it does become sort of a thought experiment in morality and commitment to think about saying no to lots of money that I don't need but with which I could solve a significant humanitarian problem by giving it to charity. Could I live with myself if I turned down $100MM for an important cause simply because I wasn't willing to spend one year of my life "in jail"/at a terrible job?  How selfish would I have to be to do that?  I should have 4 or more decades left, and I'm unwilling to give up 2.5% of my lifespan to help save thousands of lives or something like that?  Wow.

The scenario is extreme and thankfully no one has offered me $100MM for a one year gig, so I don't really have to wrestle with this.  But, let's say the answer is obvious and I would go back for one year for $100MM and save who knows how many lives through the charitable giving I do with that.  Where do I draw the line?  $99MM?  $10MM?  I have no idea where I could confidently say that *not* giving up x% of my remaining lifespan for $y to save z lives is not something I feel any moral guilt about.  But for now, what is on offer for me is certainly not enough lives saved for the portion of my own life I'd have to give up.
The only guarantee in our future is death. I reckon you might have a different opinion about spending 100% of your remaining life in "jail." I sure would. Whose to say tomorrow isn't my last day or yours?
« Last Edit: August 29, 2019, 07:17:19 PM by Mr. Green »

sui generis

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Re: What would it cost to buy you back into working?
« Reply #28 on: August 29, 2019, 07:34:21 PM »
^^interesting point here.  A tangent from the actual original question, but it does become sort of a thought experiment in morality and commitment to think about saying no to lots of money that I don't need but with which I could solve a significant humanitarian problem by giving it to charity. Could I live with myself if I turned down $100MM for an important cause simply because I wasn't willing to spend one year of my life "in jail"/at a terrible job?  How selfish would I have to be to do that?  I should have 4 or more decades left, and I'm unwilling to give up 2.5% of my lifespan to help save thousands of lives or something like that?  Wow.

The scenario is extreme and thankfully no one has offered me $100MM for a one year gig, so I don't really have to wrestle with this.  But, let's say the answer is obvious and I would go back for one year for $100MM and save who knows how many lives through the charitable giving I do with that.  Where do I draw the line?  $99MM?  $10MM?  I have no idea where I could confidently say that *not* giving up x% of my remaining lifespan for $y to save z lives is not something I feel any moral guilt about.  But for now, what is on offer for me is certainly not enough lives saved for the portion of my own life I'd have to give up.
The only guarantee in our future is death. I reckon you might have a different opinion about spending 100% of your remaining life in "jail." I sure would. Whose to say tomorrow isn't my last day or yours?

And it's about as likely I'll win the lottery. But I don't plan around it. And a thought experiment like the one I've proposed deserves to have at least some reasonable assumptions for those that wish to truly consider the moral question. It's fine that that person isn't you, and indeed my post was a derailment from the question initiating this thread.

Mr. Green

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Re: What would it cost to buy you back into working?
« Reply #29 on: August 30, 2019, 07:08:56 AM »
^^interesting point here.  A tangent from the actual original question, but it does become sort of a thought experiment in morality and commitment to think about saying no to lots of money that I don't need but with which I could solve a significant humanitarian problem by giving it to charity. Could I live with myself if I turned down $100MM for an important cause simply because I wasn't willing to spend one year of my life "in jail"/at a terrible job?  How selfish would I have to be to do that?  I should have 4 or more decades left, and I'm unwilling to give up 2.5% of my lifespan to help save thousands of lives or something like that?  Wow.

The scenario is extreme and thankfully no one has offered me $100MM for a one year gig, so I don't really have to wrestle with this.  But, let's say the answer is obvious and I would go back for one year for $100MM and save who knows how many lives through the charitable giving I do with that.  Where do I draw the line?  $99MM?  $10MM?  I have no idea where I could confidently say that *not* giving up x% of my remaining lifespan for $y to save z lives is not something I feel any moral guilt about.  But for now, what is on offer for me is certainly not enough lives saved for the portion of my own life I'd have to give up.
The only guarantee in our future is death. I reckon you might have a different opinion about spending 100% of your remaining life in "jail." I sure would. Whose to say tomorrow isn't my last day or yours?

And it's about as likely I'll win the lottery. But I don't plan around it. And a thought experiment like the one I've proposed deserves to have at least some reasonable assumptions for those that wish to truly consider the moral question. It's fine that that person isn't you, and indeed my post was a derailment from the question initiating this thread.
The odds are a lot higher than you think. In my case, I'll use the age 36 since my birthday is in two weeks, I have a 0.21% chance of being dead before my 37th birthday. That's 1 in 500 odds. I have a 2.21% chance of being dead within the next decade. That's 1 in 45 odds. I have a 16.89% chance of being dead before turning 65. That's 1 in 6 odds. Those are based on the latest (2016) Social Security actuarial tables. By all means, consider the moral question if you wish but use the actual data. It's kinda scary if you think about it too long, though.

Edit: Added date for the actuarial tables
« Last Edit: August 30, 2019, 07:12:43 AM by Mr. Green »

mak1277

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Re: What would it cost to buy you back into working?
« Reply #30 on: August 30, 2019, 07:33:23 AM »
^^interesting point here.  A tangent from the actual original question, but it does become sort of a thought experiment in morality and commitment to think about saying no to lots of money that I don't need but with which I could solve a significant humanitarian problem by giving it to charity. Could I live with myself if I turned down $100MM for an important cause simply because I wasn't willing to spend one year of my life "in jail"/at a terrible job?  How selfish would I have to be to do that?  I should have 4 or more decades left, and I'm unwilling to give up 2.5% of my lifespan to help save thousands of lives or something like that?  Wow.

The scenario is extreme and thankfully no one has offered me $100MM for a one year gig, so I don't really have to wrestle with this.  But, let's say the answer is obvious and I would go back for one year for $100MM and save who knows how many lives through the charitable giving I do with that.  Where do I draw the line?  $99MM?  $10MM?  I have no idea where I could confidently say that *not* giving up x% of my remaining lifespan for $y to save z lives is not something I feel any moral guilt about.  But for now, what is on offer for me is certainly not enough lives saved for the portion of my own life I'd have to give up.
The only guarantee in our future is death. I reckon you might have a different opinion about spending 100% of your remaining life in "jail." I sure would. Whose to say tomorrow isn't my last day or yours?

And it's about as likely I'll win the lottery. But I don't plan around it. And a thought experiment like the one I've proposed deserves to have at least some reasonable assumptions for those that wish to truly consider the moral question. It's fine that that person isn't you, and indeed my post was a derailment from the question initiating this thread.
The odds are a lot higher than you think. In my case, I'll use the age 36 since my birthday is in two weeks, I have a 0.21% chance of being dead before my 37th birthday. That's 1 in 500 odds. I have a 2.21% chance of being dead within the next decade. That's 1 in 45 odds. I have a 16.89% chance of being dead before turning 65. That's 1 in 6 odds. Those are based on the latest (2016) Social Security actuarial tables. By all means, consider the moral question if you wish but use the actual data. It's kinda scary if you think about it too long, though.

Edit: Added date for the actuarial tables

If I knew I only had ten years left, I'd absolutely take $100 million for one of them and then live the other 9 like an absolute fiend.

Mr. Green

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Re: What would it cost to buy you back into working?
« Reply #31 on: August 30, 2019, 07:47:16 AM »
^^interesting point here.  A tangent from the actual original question, but it does become sort of a thought experiment in morality and commitment to think about saying no to lots of money that I don't need but with which I could solve a significant humanitarian problem by giving it to charity. Could I live with myself if I turned down $100MM for an important cause simply because I wasn't willing to spend one year of my life "in jail"/at a terrible job?  How selfish would I have to be to do that?  I should have 4 or more decades left, and I'm unwilling to give up 2.5% of my lifespan to help save thousands of lives or something like that?  Wow.

The scenario is extreme and thankfully no one has offered me $100MM for a one year gig, so I don't really have to wrestle with this.  But, let's say the answer is obvious and I would go back for one year for $100MM and save who knows how many lives through the charitable giving I do with that.  Where do I draw the line?  $99MM?  $10MM?  I have no idea where I could confidently say that *not* giving up x% of my remaining lifespan for $y to save z lives is not something I feel any moral guilt about.  But for now, what is on offer for me is certainly not enough lives saved for the portion of my own life I'd have to give up.
The only guarantee in our future is death. I reckon you might have a different opinion about spending 100% of your remaining life in "jail." I sure would. Whose to say tomorrow isn't my last day or yours?

And it's about as likely I'll win the lottery. But I don't plan around it. And a thought experiment like the one I've proposed deserves to have at least some reasonable assumptions for those that wish to truly consider the moral question. It's fine that that person isn't you, and indeed my post was a derailment from the question initiating this thread.
The odds are a lot higher than you think. In my case, I'll use the age 36 since my birthday is in two weeks, I have a 0.21% chance of being dead before my 37th birthday. That's 1 in 500 odds. I have a 2.21% chance of being dead within the next decade. That's 1 in 45 odds. I have a 16.89% chance of being dead before turning 65. That's 1 in 6 odds. Those are based on the latest (2016) Social Security actuarial tables. By all means, consider the moral question if you wish but use the actual data. It's kinda scary if you think about it too long, though.

Edit: Added date for the actuarial tables

If I knew I only had ten years left, I'd absolutely take $100 million for one of them and then live the other 9 like an absolute fiend.
Would you take $100 million if you only had two years left and one was spent working a job you hated? I imagine some would. I wouldn't though. There isn't enough money on the planet to make it worth losing 50 percent of the time I had left. And that's the challenge. You just never know when it's your time, and for us young people most of the deaths are accidents, which means no warning. You're just driving home one night and then you're dead.

mak1277

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Re: What would it cost to buy you back into working?
« Reply #32 on: August 30, 2019, 08:22:32 AM »
^^interesting point here.  A tangent from the actual original question, but it does become sort of a thought experiment in morality and commitment to think about saying no to lots of money that I don't need but with which I could solve a significant humanitarian problem by giving it to charity. Could I live with myself if I turned down $100MM for an important cause simply because I wasn't willing to spend one year of my life "in jail"/at a terrible job?  How selfish would I have to be to do that?  I should have 4 or more decades left, and I'm unwilling to give up 2.5% of my lifespan to help save thousands of lives or something like that?  Wow.

The scenario is extreme and thankfully no one has offered me $100MM for a one year gig, so I don't really have to wrestle with this.  But, let's say the answer is obvious and I would go back for one year for $100MM and save who knows how many lives through the charitable giving I do with that.  Where do I draw the line?  $99MM?  $10MM?  I have no idea where I could confidently say that *not* giving up x% of my remaining lifespan for $y to save z lives is not something I feel any moral guilt about.  But for now, what is on offer for me is certainly not enough lives saved for the portion of my own life I'd have to give up.
The only guarantee in our future is death. I reckon you might have a different opinion about spending 100% of your remaining life in "jail." I sure would. Whose to say tomorrow isn't my last day or yours?

And it's about as likely I'll win the lottery. But I don't plan around it. And a thought experiment like the one I've proposed deserves to have at least some reasonable assumptions for those that wish to truly consider the moral question. It's fine that that person isn't you, and indeed my post was a derailment from the question initiating this thread.
The odds are a lot higher than you think. In my case, I'll use the age 36 since my birthday is in two weeks, I have a 0.21% chance of being dead before my 37th birthday. That's 1 in 500 odds. I have a 2.21% chance of being dead within the next decade. That's 1 in 45 odds. I have a 16.89% chance of being dead before turning 65. That's 1 in 6 odds. Those are based on the latest (2016) Social Security actuarial tables. By all means, consider the moral question if you wish but use the actual data. It's kinda scary if you think about it too long, though.

Edit: Added date for the actuarial tables

If I knew I only had ten years left, I'd absolutely take $100 million for one of them and then live the other 9 like an absolute fiend.
Would you take $100 million if you only had two years left and one was spent working a job you hated? I imagine some would. I wouldn't though. There isn't enough money on the planet to make it worth losing 50 percent of the time I had left. And that's the challenge. You just never know when it's your time, and for us young people most of the deaths are accidents, which means no warning. You're just driving home one night and then you're dead.

Nope, wouldn't give up a year if I only had two left.  But the whole concept of "live like it's your last day" is just a recipe for disaster in my estimation, so it's all a balance.

SunnyDays

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Re: What would it cost to buy you back into working?
« Reply #33 on: August 30, 2019, 09:24:44 AM »
As someone who has been retired for almost 4 years, there isn't enough money in the world for me to go back to ANY job.  Yup, loving retirement THAT much!

Mr. Green

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Re: What would it cost to buy you back into working?
« Reply #34 on: August 30, 2019, 09:38:29 AM »
^^interesting point here.  A tangent from the actual original question, but it does become sort of a thought experiment in morality and commitment to think about saying no to lots of money that I don't need but with which I could solve a significant humanitarian problem by giving it to charity. Could I live with myself if I turned down $100MM for an important cause simply because I wasn't willing to spend one year of my life "in jail"/at a terrible job?  How selfish would I have to be to do that?  I should have 4 or more decades left, and I'm unwilling to give up 2.5% of my lifespan to help save thousands of lives or something like that?  Wow.

The scenario is extreme and thankfully no one has offered me $100MM for a one year gig, so I don't really have to wrestle with this.  But, let's say the answer is obvious and I would go back for one year for $100MM and save who knows how many lives through the charitable giving I do with that.  Where do I draw the line?  $99MM?  $10MM?  I have no idea where I could confidently say that *not* giving up x% of my remaining lifespan for $y to save z lives is not something I feel any moral guilt about.  But for now, what is on offer for me is certainly not enough lives saved for the portion of my own life I'd have to give up.
The only guarantee in our future is death. I reckon you might have a different opinion about spending 100% of your remaining life in "jail." I sure would. Whose to say tomorrow isn't my last day or yours?

And it's about as likely I'll win the lottery. But I don't plan around it. And a thought experiment like the one I've proposed deserves to have at least some reasonable assumptions for those that wish to truly consider the moral question. It's fine that that person isn't you, and indeed my post was a derailment from the question initiating this thread.
The odds are a lot higher than you think. In my case, I'll use the age 36 since my birthday is in two weeks, I have a 0.21% chance of being dead before my 37th birthday. That's 1 in 500 odds. I have a 2.21% chance of being dead within the next decade. That's 1 in 45 odds. I have a 16.89% chance of being dead before turning 65. That's 1 in 6 odds. Those are based on the latest (2016) Social Security actuarial tables. By all means, consider the moral question if you wish but use the actual data. It's kinda scary if you think about it too long, though.

Edit: Added date for the actuarial tables

If I knew I only had ten years left, I'd absolutely take $100 million for one of them and then live the other 9 like an absolute fiend.
Would you take $100 million if you only had two years left and one was spent working a job you hated? I imagine some would. I wouldn't though. There isn't enough money on the planet to make it worth losing 50 percent of the time I had left. And that's the challenge. You just never know when it's your time, and for us young people most of the deaths are accidents, which means no warning. You're just driving home one night and then you're dead.

Nope, wouldn't give up a year if I only had two left.  But the whole concept of "live like it's your last day" is just a recipe for disaster in my estimation, so it's all a balance.
Absolutely. The point I was trying to make was that thinking about how much money it would take for one to consider suffering for other people is not a very useful exercise. An incalculable number of variables and unknowns makes it almost a waste of time, in my opinion, because you simply can't reach an answer that has even a shred if confidence to it.

sui generis

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Re: What would it cost to buy you back into working?
« Reply #35 on: August 30, 2019, 10:39:11 AM »
^^interesting point here.  A tangent from the actual original question, but it does become sort of a thought experiment in morality and commitment to think about saying no to lots of money that I don't need but with which I could solve a significant humanitarian problem by giving it to charity. Could I live with myself if I turned down $100MM for an important cause simply because I wasn't willing to spend one year of my life "in jail"/at a terrible job?  How selfish would I have to be to do that?  I should have 4 or more decades left, and I'm unwilling to give up 2.5% of my lifespan to help save thousands of lives or something like that?  Wow.

The scenario is extreme and thankfully no one has offered me $100MM for a one year gig, so I don't really have to wrestle with this.  But, let's say the answer is obvious and I would go back for one year for $100MM and save who knows how many lives through the charitable giving I do with that.  Where do I draw the line?  $99MM?  $10MM?  I have no idea where I could confidently say that *not* giving up x% of my remaining lifespan for $y to save z lives is not something I feel any moral guilt about.  But for now, what is on offer for me is certainly not enough lives saved for the portion of my own life I'd have to give up.
The only guarantee in our future is death. I reckon you might have a different opinion about spending 100% of your remaining life in "jail." I sure would. Whose to say tomorrow isn't my last day or yours?

And it's about as likely I'll win the lottery. But I don't plan around it. And a thought experiment like the one I've proposed deserves to have at least some reasonable assumptions for those that wish to truly consider the moral question. It's fine that that person isn't you, and indeed my post was a derailment from the question initiating this thread.
The odds are a lot higher than you think. In my case, I'll use the age 36 since my birthday is in two weeks, I have a 0.21% chance of being dead before my 37th birthday. That's 1 in 500 odds. I have a 2.21% chance of being dead within the next decade. That's 1 in 45 odds. I have a 16.89% chance of being dead before turning 65. That's 1 in 6 odds. Those are based on the latest (2016) Social Security actuarial tables. By all means, consider the moral question if you wish but use the actual data. It's kinda scary if you think about it too long, though.

Edit: Added date for the actuarial tables

I'm surprised you leave the house at all if stats like those concern you!

And these kind of thought experiments are not so much about pinning down an actual number ("I would do it for $6.7MM!") as examining your values in a qualitative sense.  Mine say I would have a problem saying no to "a lot" of money for about a year if I knew I could practically solve a humanitarian crisis or issue.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2019, 10:43:29 AM by sui generis »

Mr. Green

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Re: What would it cost to buy you back into working?
« Reply #36 on: August 30, 2019, 11:00:29 AM »
^^interesting point here.  A tangent from the actual original question, but it does become sort of a thought experiment in morality and commitment to think about saying no to lots of money that I don't need but with which I could solve a significant humanitarian problem by giving it to charity. Could I live with myself if I turned down $100MM for an important cause simply because I wasn't willing to spend one year of my life "in jail"/at a terrible job?  How selfish would I have to be to do that?  I should have 4 or more decades left, and I'm unwilling to give up 2.5% of my lifespan to help save thousands of lives or something like that?  Wow.

The scenario is extreme and thankfully no one has offered me $100MM for a one year gig, so I don't really have to wrestle with this.  But, let's say the answer is obvious and I would go back for one year for $100MM and save who knows how many lives through the charitable giving I do with that.  Where do I draw the line?  $99MM?  $10MM?  I have no idea where I could confidently say that *not* giving up x% of my remaining lifespan for $y to save z lives is not something I feel any moral guilt about.  But for now, what is on offer for me is certainly not enough lives saved for the portion of my own life I'd have to give up.
The only guarantee in our future is death. I reckon you might have a different opinion about spending 100% of your remaining life in "jail." I sure would. Whose to say tomorrow isn't my last day or yours?

And it's about as likely I'll win the lottery. But I don't plan around it. And a thought experiment like the one I've proposed deserves to have at least some reasonable assumptions for those that wish to truly consider the moral question. It's fine that that person isn't you, and indeed my post was a derailment from the question initiating this thread.
The odds are a lot higher than you think. In my case, I'll use the age 36 since my birthday is in two weeks, I have a 0.21% chance of being dead before my 37th birthday. That's 1 in 500 odds. I have a 2.21% chance of being dead within the next decade. That's 1 in 45 odds. I have a 16.89% chance of being dead before turning 65. That's 1 in 6 odds. Those are based on the latest (2016) Social Security actuarial tables. By all means, consider the moral question if you wish but use the actual data. It's kinda scary if you think about it too long, though.

Edit: Added date for the actuarial tables

I'm surprised you leave the house at all if stats like those concern you!

And these kind of thought experiments are not so much about pinning down an actual number ("I would do it for $6.7MM!") as examining your values in a qualitative sense.  Mine say I would have a problem saying no to "a lot" of money for about a year if I knew I could practically solve a humanitarian crisis or issue.
Different strokes for different folks. I would not again suffer as I did in my career for a year of the unknown remainder of my life just to solve one of an infinite number of human crises. I might as well stand on the beach throwing grains of sand into the water.

If I loved my job that's a whole different story, but that's not what we're talking about here.

Malkynn

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Re: What would it cost to buy you back into working?
« Reply #37 on: August 30, 2019, 11:33:53 AM »
Nope, wouldn't give up a year if I only had two left.  But the whole concept of "live like it's your last day" is just a recipe for disaster in my estimation, so it's all a balance.

IDK, I fundamentally disagree with the premise that "live like it's your last day" is a recipe for disaster.

Mr. Green

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Re: What would it cost to buy you back into working?
« Reply #38 on: August 30, 2019, 11:56:02 AM »
Nope, wouldn't give up a year if I only had two left.  But the whole concept of "live like it's your last day" is just a recipe for disaster in my estimation, so it's all a balance.

IDK, I fundamentally disagree with the premise that "live like it's your last day" is a recipe for disaster.
I don't think it has to go any further than the pursuit of happiness. If there are aspects of your life you want to change and you are actively working on them, or if you have achieved absolute happiness and would change nothing about your life then I feel like you're living each day like it were your last. Many people mistakenly use that as a rallying cry to do irresponsible things in the moment, but I think that's just because they don't see the bigger picture.

I want to look back at my life, no matter what day I end up dying, and feel like I did my best to be happy because when you strip all the other stuff away, that's what's left.

mak1277

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Re: What would it cost to buy you back into working?
« Reply #39 on: August 30, 2019, 12:47:41 PM »
Nope, wouldn't give up a year if I only had two left.  But the whole concept of "live like it's your last day" is just a recipe for disaster in my estimation, so it's all a balance.

IDK, I fundamentally disagree with the premise that "live like it's your last day" is a recipe for disaster.

If I knew I had one day (or even one year) left to live, I would engage in as much reckless activity as I could fit into the remaining time I had.  Every day would be a search for more endorphins in any form possible. 

Malkynn

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Re: What would it cost to buy you back into working?
« Reply #40 on: August 30, 2019, 01:41:45 PM »
Nope, wouldn't give up a year if I only had two left.  But the whole concept of "live like it's your last day" is just a recipe for disaster in my estimation, so it's all a balance.

IDK, I fundamentally disagree with the premise that "live like it's your last day" is a recipe for disaster.

If I knew I had one day (or even one year) left to live, I would engage in as much reckless activity as I could fit into the remaining time I had.  Every day would be a search for more endorphins in any form possible.

You and I are clearly very different people who live very different lives.


jim555

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Re: What would it cost to buy you back into working?
« Reply #41 on: August 30, 2019, 02:32:27 PM »
I would work one year at my old job for a million, then fatFIRE.  Not for a penny less.

SimpleLifer

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Re: What would it cost to buy you back into working?
« Reply #42 on: August 31, 2019, 09:35:52 AM »
^^interesting point here.  A tangent from the actual original question, but it does become sort of a thought experiment in morality and commitment to think about saying no to lots of money that I don't need but with which I could solve a significant humanitarian problem by giving it to charity. Could I live with myself if I turned down $100MM for an important cause simply because I wasn't willing to spend one year of my life "in jail"/at a terrible job?  How selfish would I have to be to do that?  I should have 4 or more decades left, and I'm unwilling to give up 2.5% of my lifespan to help save thousands of lives or something like that?  Wow.

The scenario is extreme and thankfully no one has offered me $100MM for a one year gig, so I don't really have to wrestle with this.  But, let's say the answer is obvious and I would go back for one year for $100MM and save who knows how many lives through the charitable giving I do with that.  Where do I draw the line?  $99MM?  $10MM?  I have no idea where I could confidently say that *not* giving up x% of my remaining lifespan for $y to save z lives is not something I feel any moral guilt about.  But for now, what is on offer for me is certainly not enough lives saved for the portion of my own life I'd have to give up.
The only guarantee in our future is death. I reckon you might have a different opinion about spending 100% of your remaining life in "jail." I sure would. Whose to say tomorrow isn't my last day or yours?

And it's about as likely I'll win the lottery. But I don't plan around it. And a thought experiment like the one I've proposed deserves to have at least some reasonable assumptions for those that wish to truly consider the moral question. It's fine that that person isn't you, and indeed my post was a derailment from the question initiating this thread.
The odds are a lot higher than you think. In my case, I'll use the age 36 since my birthday is in two weeks, I have a 0.21% chance of being dead before my 37th birthday. That's 1 in 500 odds. I have a 2.21% chance of being dead within the next decade. That's 1 in 45 odds. I have a 16.89% chance of being dead before turning 65. That's 1 in 6 odds. Those are based on the latest (2016) Social Security actuarial tables. By all means, consider the moral question if you wish but use the actual data. It's kinda scary if you think about it too long, though.

Edit: Added date for the actuarial tables

I'm surprised you leave the house at all if stats like those concern you!

And these kind of thought experiments are not so much about pinning down an actual number ("I would do it for $6.7MM!") as examining your values in a qualitative sense.  Mine say I would have a problem saying no to "a lot" of money for about a year if I knew I could practically solve a humanitarian crisis or issue.

The way I quantify this is:  how many more years will my children be minor children? 

How many more years of their childhood are left?

Sigh.

I always enjoy reading your perspective, @Mr. Green.

Mr. Green

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Re: What would it cost to buy you back into working?
« Reply #43 on: September 02, 2019, 04:36:26 AM »
In a sadly ironic mic drop on my comment about not knowing how long you have I found my father dead yesterday morning. He was 66 and in good health. I had just talked to him Friday. Everyone I've notified is simply shocked because of how vibrant and strong he always was. Pursue happiness everyday and tell people you love them.

ysette9

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Re: What would it cost to buy you back into working?
« Reply #44 on: September 02, 2019, 07:05:16 AM »
In a sadly ironic mic drop on my comment about not knowing how long you have I found my father dead yesterday morning. He was 66 and in good health. I had just talked to him Friday. Everyone I've notified is simply shocked because of how vibrant and strong he always was. Pursue happiness everyday and tell people you love them.
Wow, Iím so sorry for your loss. That is very young and quite sobering.

Malkynn

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Re: What would it cost to buy you back into working?
« Reply #45 on: September 02, 2019, 07:07:14 AM »
In a sadly ironic mic drop on my comment about not knowing how long you have I found my father dead yesterday morning. He was 66 and in good health. I had just talked to him Friday. Everyone I've notified is simply shocked because of how vibrant and strong he always was. Pursue happiness everyday and tell people you love them.

Are you okay?
Do you have enough support??
This is so awful, I'm so sorry.

DaMa

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Re: What would it cost to buy you back into working?
« Reply #46 on: September 02, 2019, 06:21:42 PM »
In a sadly ironic mic drop on my comment about not knowing how long you have I found my father dead yesterday morning. He was 66 and in good health. I had just talked to him Friday. Everyone I've notified is simply shocked because of how vibrant and strong he always was. Pursue happiness everyday and tell people you love them.

I'm so sorry for you loss.

Mr. Green

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Re: What would it cost to buy you back into working?
« Reply #47 on: September 02, 2019, 06:23:15 PM »
In a sadly ironic mic drop on my comment about not knowing how long you have I found my father dead yesterday morning. He was 66 and in good health. I had just talked to him Friday. Everyone I've notified is simply shocked because of how vibrant and strong he always was. Pursue happiness everyday and tell people you love them.

Are you okay?
Do you have enough support??
This is so awful, I'm so sorry.
My mom came down and the friends we live with are very supportive. Dad had a small group of friends that loved him very much and they have offered assistance as well. I am simply glad we were able to FIRE when we did and it enabled me to be closer to him these past few years than any other time in my life.

Edit: two typos
« Last Edit: September 03, 2019, 12:36:37 AM by Mr. Green »

Villanelle

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Re: What would it cost to buy you back into working?
« Reply #48 on: September 02, 2019, 07:38:19 PM »
I'm sorry.  I hope you can find some comfort in memories of those happy times you were able to spend together.

FrugalZony

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Re: What would it cost to buy you back into working?
« Reply #49 on: September 02, 2019, 08:15:48 PM »
I am simply glad we were able to FIRE when we did and it enaboed me to be closer to him these past few years than any other time in my life.
My sincere condolences!! I lost my dad earlier this year and I feel that same gratitude having FIREd in 2016 and having that opportunity to spend more time with him in those Fired years.
I hope you can find comfort in this knowledge, I know, I try on a daily basis. I am glad you are surrounded and supported by family and friends.
Sending you hugs!