Author Topic: What if ACA is ruled unconstitutional by 5th court of appeals?  (Read 5084 times)

cabb

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What if ACA is ruled unconstitutional by 5th court of appeals?
« on: October 07, 2019, 09:19:44 PM »
I'm not looking to discuss what the court will decide, but curious what the backup plan is for people who are using the ACA to manage their medical costs.

As an aside, it doesn't look good based on what I've been reading, hence the question.  Most likely a visit to the Supreme Court.  Now hearing Trump may ask court to put ruling on hold until he gets reelected as there is no backup plan for those that will lose their coverage.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2019, 09:52:37 PM by cabb »

secondcor521

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Re: What if ACA is ruled unconstitutional by 5th court of appeals?
« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2019, 10:02:09 PM »
My backup plan is basically "choose the best option from those available" if/when things change.

I do not know how the court will rule, and I don't know how the various entities will respond or react when that happens.  So I don't know what the options even will be.

However, I personally feel quite confident that there will be a decent option available, and I think it is very unlikely that I will decide to go back to work in order to get health insurance.

In my case the timing is working out well, as I need to keep my current (ACA silver) plan in place until my youngest graduates from high school next May.  After that I'm not too concerned; even though I'm 50 I would be fine with a bare bones catastrophic-type policy and self-insurance for the rest.

I do find the legal and Constitutional questions quite very interesting to read about and evaluate, but I don't think discussing them here would be very productive, since very few of us are actual Constitutional scholars or Supreme Court Justices and are therefore probably not as knowledgeable as we need to be to resolve the issue.

MonkeyJenga

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Re: What if ACA is ruled unconstitutional by 5th court of appeals?
« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2019, 10:14:06 PM »
I may go back to work until I save enough to pay for private insurance. I already have some buffer, but who knows how much I will need or feel comfortable with.

ysette9

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Re: What if ACA is ruled unconstitutional by 5th court of appeals?
« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2019, 01:12:11 AM »
Move out of the country

jim555

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Re: What if ACA is ruled unconstitutional by 5th court of appeals?
« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2019, 08:21:52 AM »
My bill would go from $20 a month to probably $600 a month or more.  I would seriously look into expatriating to the UK, I have right of abode, until Medicare kicks in.

infromsea

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Re: What if ACA is ruled unconstitutional by 5th court of appeals?
« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2019, 09:06:26 AM »
This topic comes up anytime the ACA is in the news.

I don't watch the news/have a dog in the fight so I usually get notified that the ACA is "up in the air again" from this message board.

For me personally, the repeal of the ACA makes no difference RE: health insurance as I'm retired MIL so I think I get to speak to the issue from an un-attached, non-emotional POV. Add to that, I work for one of the "big five" health care insurance companies, supporting the work required to get plans listed on the ACA. If the ACA is repealed etc. I will lose a comfortable job (that pays more than it should and has generous benefits paid for by folks paying premiums so I won't be here much longer having realized this...).

My thoughts on the situation:
1. The supreme court is often very specific about XXX part of a law/legislation is unconstitutional and leaves other parts "alone" so there is a good chance they rule that some minor part is not legal and leave the larger process/law in place, allowing folks to tailor the plans/develop work-arounds etc. Bottom line, something is likely to "survive" (could go deeper on why/how here but it's probably not relevant).

2. The current environment is business friendly. The large corporations want to keep the ACA in place so they will spend to that end and if the entire thing is repealed "whole-cloth" they WILL step in to create a new plan/system/something to fill the void. It will most likely drop the consumer friendly options like pre-diagnosed conditions and require medical screenings so they can rate everyone individually, increasing costs for the very sick/those with major issues, and lowering costs for the very healthy. Something will fill the void though, probably at increased costs.

Regards,

Tim

FINate

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Re: What if ACA is ruled unconstitutional by 5th court of appeals?
« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2019, 10:42:24 AM »
We have enough buffer in our FIRE plans so we'll just buy whatever we need if something happens to the ACA. Which would be fine with me, I never really liked the ACA. Not because socialism, but because it's convoluted and unnecessarily complicated. Now that we are FIRE our AGI is unpredictable, and as we have shifted some investments this has caused changes to the types of income we get, which means we bounce around between subsidies on the exchange and Medical (that's Medicaid for you non-Californians). It's a pain in the ass.

It's absurd that we get premium subsidies/free healthcare because we are considered low-income, yet I'll take it because we're forced to have a certain level of insurance (CA passed it's own insurance mandate) that I don't really want. What I really want is actual health insurance, as in risk pooling, rather than prepaid health care. In other words, I want high deductible catastrophic coverage and I'm more than happy to pay cash for routine care. We already do this with things like dental, and when I run the numbers we're paying significantly less than when I had full coverage through my employer.

So if ACA goes away, or has to be modified, I have hopes that it will be replaced with something better. Something simpler like no exclusions for preexisting conditions but having an open enrollment period to discourage gaming the system (you know, the same way group plans and the ACA exchange works today). But without minimum coverage requirements or mandates. And premium assistance for those who need it, which should be means tested not just income based.

Or, Medicare for all.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2019, 10:44:07 AM by FINate »

GettingClose

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Re: What if ACA is ruled unconstitutional by 5th court of appeals?
« Reply #7 on: October 08, 2019, 02:20:46 PM »
Quote
We have enough buffer in our FIRE plans so we'll just buy whatever we need if something happens to the ACA.

That's exactly what you might not be able to do.  I remember the days before the ACA, and I could only get insurance for 1 of my 4 minor children, due to pre-existing conditions, including (I kid you not) acne.  Then once you're rejected by one insurance company, you have to report that fact when you apply to another.  If you can even find another that covers your specific state/county.

I ended out buying catastrophic coverage which had a ton of exceptions, and was of limited usefulness.

Frankies Girl

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Re: What if ACA is ruled unconstitutional by 5th court of appeals?
« Reply #8 on: October 08, 2019, 02:32:11 PM »
I do not think this will happen. But in the interest of the thought experiment:

There are at least 6-10 "best places to work" in my immediate area that offer premium health insurance some even for part timers (and did so before the ACA existed) that I could get a job with in the event the ACA is killed.

I also have a high enough portfolio that I believe I could get decent insurance out of pocket without having to go back to work.

I'm actually tempted sometimes to just go get a part time job with at least 2 of the companies just because they sound like fun places to work for part time and I shop at both a bunch (hello discounts!). But the ACA subsidy/AGI link is too sweet a deal right now. But again, if that changes, no issues with getting a "fun" job doing retail or similar.


Paul der Krake

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Re: What if ACA is ruled unconstitutional by 5th court of appeals?
« Reply #9 on: October 08, 2019, 10:24:27 PM »
We have enough buffer in our FIRE plans so we'll just buy whatever we need if something happens to the ACA. Which would be fine with me, I never really liked the ACA. Not because socialism, but because it's convoluted and unnecessarily complicated.
"Legislative complexity is an early retiree's opportunity"

-- Paul der Krake, 2019

More seriously, these threads have come up like clockwork for the past 5 years at every lawsuit, and every time I repeat the same thing:

Nobody knows for sure what will happen. Don't plan your life more than a couple of years out. Stay flexible. Look overseas for a plan B.

BTDretire

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Re: What if ACA is ruled unconstitutional by 5th court of appeals?
« Reply #10 on: October 09, 2019, 10:06:23 PM »
 To me this is like a section 8 recipient saying what if the hard working taxpayers stop paying my rent?

 I would say, get a job and pay your own rent.

 Or maybe a food stamp recipient, saying what if the hard working taxpayers stop buying my food.

 I would say, get a job and pay for your own food.

What if ACA is ruled unconstitutional by 5th court of appeals and I have to start paying for my own healthcare?

 Let me get this right, you're posting in Post-Fire, so your probably not working, you have a million dollars and your whining because the hardworking taxpayers might not pay for your health insurance.

I would say, get a job and pay for your own health insurance.

I have paid for my families health insurance for at least the last 25 years, there are insurance companies that will sell you a policy, it's just like house insurance or car insurance, you pay for it and get coverage.
 Now if your position is, but I want other people to pay my bills, I don't have an answer, because I think you should pay your own bills.

  Just one man's opinion, and not a particularly popular one on this site.

seattlecyclone

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Re: What if ACA is ruled unconstitutional by 5th court of appeals?
« Reply #11 on: October 09, 2019, 11:00:56 PM »
The subsidy is just one part of it. A bigger part of the concern, at least in my mind, is that pre-ACA an insurance company had no requirement to sell you a policy at all. Had cancer once? Forget about ever being able to buy insurance without a corporate job that provides health benefits. My son needed to have a small surgical procedure as an infant. Under the ACA we can buy insurance for him. Would we still be able to if the ACA went away, or does this count as a "pre-existing condition" that would make him uninsurable? I have no idea, and I'd rather not find out.

I'm still not too worried about this because it's far from a done deal, I've read opinions from legal scholars that the legal arguments behind this case are rather weak, and even if the courts do sustain the challenge I live in a blue state and suspect that our legislature will enact something similar on a state level if the federal program went away. The state might not be able to afford the same level of generous subsidies as a government that has the power to deficit spend and print money out of thin air, but I think we'll be okay nevertheless.

ysette9

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Re: What if ACA is ruled unconstitutional by 5th court of appeals?
« Reply #12 on: October 10, 2019, 01:42:37 AM »
Off topic, but I have to address the glib comments of “get a job” to the hypothetical people concerned about losing food stamps or section 8 housing vouchers.

Most of those people either already have jobs or can’t work. So the real problem is how we have a society that does such a bad job of lifting people out of poverty.

The Economist devoted a recent issue to poverty in America and showed how we are an outlier in rich countries around the world at being effective at addressing poverty. We can do a lot better because every other rich country does, but for whatever reason we choose not to. Likely this prévailing attitude is a big stumbling block to effective policy, this idea that somehow poverty is a moral failing and the fault of the person who is poor. We have to nip that at the bud if we are going to make ourselves better as a society.

smoghat

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Re: What if ACA is ruled unconstitutional by 5th court of appeals?
« Reply #13 on: October 10, 2019, 06:03:44 AM »
To me this is like a section 8 recipient saying what if the hard working taxpayers stop paying my rent?

 I would say, get a job and pay your own rent.

Blather.

We have paid for our insurance for thirty years so we beat your twenty-five. We worked, made a lot of money on the side and retired with more money than the other 99%. I could have a job running a program or being a dean at a university if I wanted (solicitations for these positions from school across the country still come regularly), but I have no interest in that. Why should I occupy a job that somebody else who needs the money could have? It’s four years since FIRE, and we have done well, no cracks in our decision showing yet. Just went to look at a college with our daughter yesterday. There was a time when it would have been free for me as a perk of my job, but I gave that up when I decided to quit the rat race. We will not get any financial aid so we’ll be out full price. I’m ok with that. It’s my decision.

For health insurance I want a level playing field in which I can obtain reasonable health insurance like Blue Cross, not Kushner care or a religious association that forces me into some house of superstition, at something approaching reasonable rates, but since I can’t get that thanks to the GOP, I’ll take what I have now, lousy health insurance (still Blue Cross) at exorbitant rates.

Now it annoys me to no end to see people who haven’t saved enough but have FIRE’d on a minimal amount complain about losing their subsidies as that is taking advantage of the system. But this country was founded on life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, not on the need to work. If you have paid your health insurance all your life and are still paying it, you shouldn’t be denied treatment just because you had a zit three years ago. That’s garbage. And you know what, won’t save you or your family when the dice roll against you. I had a friend who died because she got cancer, she got healthy but it came back, after a while she couldn’t work so eventually she had to go on COBRA, after that ran out, she wound up without health insurance since who insures someone getting cancer treatments. Lots of bills, but money and treatments ran out and that was that. Would she be around if she’d had insurance? Who knows. She’s been gone 15 years now.

the_gastropod

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Re: What if ACA is ruled unconstitutional by 5th court of appeals?
« Reply #14 on: October 10, 2019, 06:30:43 AM »
To me this is like a section 8 recipient saying what if the hard working taxpayers stop paying my rent?

 I would say, get a job and pay your own rent.

 Or maybe a food stamp recipient, saying what if the hard working taxpayers stop buying my food.

 I would say, get a job and pay for your own food.

What if ACA is ruled unconstitutional by 5th court of appeals and I have to start paying for my own healthcare?

 Let me get this right, you're posting in Post-Fire, so your probably not working, you have a million dollars and your whining because the hardworking taxpayers might not pay for your health insurance.

I would say, get a job and pay for your own health insurance.

I have paid for my families health insurance for at least the last 25 years, there are insurance companies that will sell you a policy, it's just like house insurance or car insurance, you pay for it and get coverage.
 Now if your position is, but I want other people to pay my bills, I don't have an answer, because I think you should pay your own bills.

  Just one man's opinion, and not a particularly popular one on this site.

Hate to burst your bubble, but employer healthcare is also heavily subsidized by the federal government https://www.cbo.gov/publication/55085

cabb

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Re: What if ACA is ruled unconstitutional by 5th court of appeals?
« Reply #15 on: October 10, 2019, 01:32:34 PM »
Pre-existing conditions are a huge part of this.  Let's look at some statistics.

Almost 54 million people – or 27% of all adults under 65 —have pre-existing conditions that would have made them uninsurable in the individual markets that existed in most states before the Affordable Care Act, an updated analysis by Kaiser Family Foundation shows.

The rate of declinable pre-existing conditions among adults varies significantly from state to state, ranging from 37% in West Virginia, to 22% in Colorado, the analysis shows.

Forty-four percent of adults ages 55-64 were more likely to have pre-existing conditions, more than double the rate of adults ages 18-34 (18%). Women (30%) are more likely than men (24%) to have declinable conditions, and 45% of non-elderly families have at least one adult with a pre-existing condition.


Tyler

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Re: What if ACA is ruled unconstitutional by 5th court of appeals?
« Reply #16 on: October 10, 2019, 02:17:38 PM »
Prior to the ACA, the HIPAA law (signed in 1996) protected people with preexisting conditions when they switched plans provided they maintained continuous insurance coverage.  Things were definitely more dicey in the individual market than in the workplace group plans, but most of the alternative state and national proposals from both parties I've read about in the last several years include (at a bare minimum) a similar mechanism for the individual market.  As much of a hot-button issue as that is today for voters, I'd be very surprised if that isn't one of the first things addressed by lawmakers if the ACA is ever overturned. But who knows. 

In any case, I personally wouldn't plan my life around theoretical insurance policy changes.  Even if the worst happens and preexisting condition coverage is completely eliminated, keeping your job may not necessarily save you if you get sick and can no longer work.  And like the ACA replacing the system before it, new options may arise that weren't around before.  So make the best decision based on the choices available at the time, stay flexible, and keep moving forward.  FIRE buys you a lot of empowerment to adapt to any kind of adversity. 
« Last Edit: October 10, 2019, 07:31:14 PM by Tyler »

bmjohnson35

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Re: What if ACA is ruled unconstitutional by 5th court of appeals?
« Reply #17 on: October 10, 2019, 03:08:19 PM »
To me this is like a section 8 recipient saying what if the hard working taxpayers stop paying my rent?

 I would say, get a job and pay your own rent.

 Or maybe a food stamp recipient, saying what if the hard working taxpayers stop buying my food.

 I would say, get a job and pay for your own food.

What if ACA is ruled unconstitutional by 5th court of appeals and I have to start paying for my own healthcare?

 Let me get this right, you're posting in Post-Fire, so your probably not working, you have a million dollars and your whining because the hardworking taxpayers might not pay for your health insurance.

I would say, get a job and pay for your own health insurance.

I have paid for my families health insurance for at least the last 25 years, there are insurance companies that will sell you a policy, it's just like house insurance or car insurance, you pay for it and get coverage.
 Now if your position is, but I want other people to pay my bills, I don't have an answer, because I think you should pay your own bills.

  Just one man's opinion, and not a particularly popular one on this site.

The one key issue you fail to address is pre-existing conditions.  Regardless of your view of government subsidies, the ACA provides an insurance option for people with pre-existing conditions.  This is not an option for traditional policies outside employer plans.  I tend to be rather conservative when it comes to politics, healthcare is an exception. Since the government has chosen not to properly regulate the industry, some form of national healthcare is needed.

BJ

FIRE 20/20

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Re: What if ACA is ruled unconstitutional by 5th court of appeals?
« Reply #18 on: October 10, 2019, 04:06:55 PM »
To me this is like a section 8 recipient saying what if the hard working taxpayers stop paying my rent?

 I would say, get a job and pay your own rent.

 Or maybe a food stamp recipient, saying what if the hard working taxpayers stop buying my food.

 I would say, get a job and pay for your own food.

What if ACA is ruled unconstitutional by 5th court of appeals and I have to start paying for my own healthcare?

 Let me get this right, you're posting in Post-Fire, so your probably not working, you have a million dollars and your whining because the hardworking taxpayers might not pay for your health insurance.

I would say, get a job and pay for your own health insurance.

I have paid for my families health insurance for at least the last 25 years, there are insurance companies that will sell you a policy, it's just like house insurance or car insurance, you pay for it and get coverage.
 Now if your position is, but I want other people to pay my bills, I don't have an answer, because I think you should pay your own bills.

  Just one man's opinion, and not a particularly popular one on this site.

Unfortunately, there are millions of people who are uninsurable due to pre-existing conditions.  I'm one of them.  I would be happy to pay for insurance on my own and have budgeted for it, but before the ACA insurance companies could "insure" people until they got sick and then drop their coverage, or simply not cover certain things.  As an example, I have mild asthma (I use a rescue inhaler about twice a month for a minor cough after cold weather exercise), but when trying to buy my own coverage everything related to breathing would not have been covered.  Lung cancer - not covered.  Get cancer somewhere else?  Cancelled after diagnosis, so essentially no coverage.

I don't care about the ACA subsidies - my FIRE plan assumes I pay full freight for the duration.  However, I think people underestimate how bad individual coverage (both availability and coverage) prior to the ACA. 

soccerluvof4

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Re: What if ACA is ruled unconstitutional by 5th court of appeals?
« Reply #19 on: October 11, 2019, 02:55:06 AM »
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that both sides of the aisle know that there has to be something in place but improved on like the ACA to be in Washington which will include coverage of pre-existing coverage.

MonkeyJenga

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Re: What if ACA is ruled unconstitutional by 5th court of appeals?
« Reply #20 on: October 11, 2019, 03:20:34 AM »
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that both sides of the aisle know that there has to be something in place but improved on like the ACA to be in Washington which will include coverage of pre-existing coverage.

I do not believe that Republicans know this. I would love to be proved wrong.

BTDretire

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Re: What if ACA is ruled unconstitutional by 5th court of appeals?
« Reply #21 on: October 11, 2019, 11:46:48 AM »
Yes, I know there is a problem with preexisting conditions.
The fix was not to start using taxpayer money to pay for healthcare premiums.
Especially making people who are working for a living, subsidize the healthcare of someone that has $1M in the bank and not working.
 Throwing taxpayer money at the problem just produces a bigger pile of money to grow the problem.
 Costs are the problem, you don't throw money at something to reduce the cost.

ysette9

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Re: What if ACA is ruled unconstitutional by 5th court of appeals?
« Reply #22 on: October 11, 2019, 11:51:50 AM »
We keep coming back to the same thing: we do t have to solve this cost problem in a vacuum. As literally every other rich country has a much lower cost universal healthcare scheme in place, all we have to do is have a look around. See how others have solved the problem and then order off the menu which solution looks most tasty. We can even tailor to met our needs. But we don’t need to go into the kitchen and start shifting through the cupboards, wondering how to cook dinner.

bmjohnson35

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Re: What if ACA is ruled unconstitutional by 5th court of appeals?
« Reply #23 on: October 11, 2019, 02:26:12 PM »

I won't let this possibility stop me from ER.  I don't want to make decisions based on what could happen.  I agree with the various people who think some kind of alternative(s) will likely replace it.  Otherwise, we can always get a part-time job with insurance,  leave the country or possibly some other future option(s).

BJ

des999

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Re: What if ACA is ruled unconstitutional by 5th court of appeals?
« Reply #24 on: October 14, 2019, 01:46:16 PM »
To me this is like a section 8 recipient saying what if the hard working taxpayers stop paying my rent?

 I would say, get a job and pay your own rent.

 Or maybe a food stamp recipient, saying what if the hard working taxpayers stop buying my food.

 I would say, get a job and pay for your own food.

What if ACA is ruled unconstitutional by 5th court of appeals and I have to start paying for my own healthcare?

 Let me get this right, you're posting in Post-Fire, so your probably not working, you have a million dollars and your whining because the hardworking taxpayers might not pay for your health insurance.

I would say, get a job and pay for your own health insurance.

I have paid for my families health insurance for at least the last 25 years, there are insurance companies that will sell you a policy, it's just like house insurance or car insurance, you pay for it and get coverage.
 Now if your position is, but I want other people to pay my bills, I don't have an answer, because I think you should pay your own bills.

  Just one man's opinion, and not a particularly popular one on this site.

this is all fine and easy to say when you or a loved one does not have cancer or some other pre-existing condition where an insurance company will refuse to cover you.

So, I should keep my megacorp job forever, even if I have enough money to retire, b/c my son has cancer?  I should 'get a job' as you put it, even if it means working for another 20 years past when I'd need to, just b/c I need health ins for my son?

sorry, things change when something happens to you, it's not always lazy people or over weight people etc.. like I keep hearing, there are hard working, healthy people that get sick.


bacchi

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Re: What if ACA is ruled unconstitutional by 5th court of appeals?
« Reply #25 on: October 14, 2019, 02:34:50 PM »
Prior to the ACA, the HIPAA law (signed in 1996) protected people with preexisting conditions when they switched plans provided they maintained continuous insurance coverage.

HIPAA did not prevent rescission. There were many incidents of insurance companies rescinding insurance when an expensive claim was filed due to...not reporting acne treatment. Yes, seriously. That would mean a trip to the state insurance pools, which were very expensive and had their own waiting list.

The pre-existing clause was put into ACA because companies abused their privilege to rescind due to fraud.

grantmeaname

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Re: What if ACA is ruled unconstitutional by 5th court of appeals?
« Reply #26 on: October 17, 2019, 07:58:16 AM »


The fix was not to start using taxpayer money to pay for healthcare premiums.
"Start" is not the word you are looking for, as has already been pointed out to you in this thread. You have gotten a giant tax subsidy for employer sponsored health insurance for 25 years, but like most American taxpayers you only call things a handout when they are paid to other citizens. When it's paid to you it's just a question of the government giving you what is "deserved", or you ignore the fact entirely when it's been pointed out to you so you can avoid the cognitive dissonance.

Tyler

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Re: What if ACA is ruled unconstitutional by 5th court of appeals?
« Reply #27 on: October 17, 2019, 08:46:01 AM »

HIPAA did not prevent rescission. There were many incidents of insurance companies rescinding insurance when an expensive claim was filed due to...not reporting acne treatment. Yes, seriously. That would mean a trip to the state insurance pools, which were very expensive and had their own waiting list.

The pre-existing clause was put into ACA because companies abused their privilege to rescind due to fraud.

Good point.  You're absolutely correct that rescission was a big deal and there were lots of games insurers would play.  Another is how they'd churn new plans so that the only people left in the old ones were sick and couldn't get new coverage.  Then they'd be able to legally raise rates for the sick group as a whole.  On the other side of the coin, I can also see the argument that the pre-existing conditions coverage in the ACA goes too far by financially incentivizing people to never pay into the system until they're sick and want discounted medical costs.  I personally don't have a problem disliking parts of both the old and new systems.  ;)  So I'm also not afraid of change and am ready to adjust as needed.

« Last Edit: October 17, 2019, 09:16:26 AM by Tyler »

Nickel

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Re: What if ACA is ruled unconstitutional by 5th court of appeals?
« Reply #28 on: October 18, 2019, 02:19:01 PM »


The fix was not to start using taxpayer money to pay for healthcare premiums.
"Start" is not the word you are looking for, as has already been pointed out to you in this thread. You have gotten a giant tax subsidy for employer sponsored health insurance for 25 years, but like most American taxpayers you only call things a handout when they are paid to other citizens. When it's paid to you it's just a question of the government giving you what is "deserved", or you ignore the fact entirely when it's been pointed out to you so you can avoid the cognitive dissonance.

Amen.  Subsidies and tax advantages for me (and the ultra wealthy), but not for thee.  It's a version of "born on third, acting like she hit a triple," or telling a barefoot man to "pull himself up by his bootstraps." 

The cognitive dissonance involving those who support, allow or ignore the gigantic subsidies for the super-wealthy, while opposing public support for children, disabled, healthcare, and disadvantaged people, is striking. 

We are all susceptible to it.  MMM himself seems at times unaware of being born on second or third base.  When a hardworking friend or relative goes bankrupt because of medical issues, perspectives sometimes change. Think of Ayn Rand collecting her social security benefits.   

soccerluvof4

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Re: What if ACA is ruled unconstitutional by 5th court of appeals?
« Reply #29 on: October 25, 2019, 02:20:32 AM »
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that both sides of the aisle know that there has to be something in place but improved on like the ACA to be in Washington which will include coverage of pre-existing coverage.

I do not believe that Republicans know this. I would love to be proved wrong.



Well I am a Republican and know this and so do all the people in the circles I run both business and non-business. Its not a party thing so lets not make it one. Anyone that doesnt know this is an issue is a fool no matter what side of the aisle your on.

grantmeaname

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Re: What if ACA is ruled unconstitutional by 5th court of appeals?
« Reply #30 on: October 25, 2019, 03:52:02 AM »
The national party leadership has defanged the one essential lynchpin holding everything together by eliminating the shared responsibility payment, and then made no effort to replace the ACA, which suggests that either they don't know it or they're engaged in a bad-faith effort to make the healthcare system worse for partisan ends.

MonkeyJenga

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Re: What if ACA is ruled unconstitutional by 5th court of appeals?
« Reply #31 on: October 25, 2019, 04:24:46 AM »
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that both sides of the aisle know that there has to be something in place but improved on like the ACA to be in Washington which will include coverage of pre-existing coverage.

I do not believe that Republicans know this. I would love to be proved wrong.



Well I am a Republican and know this and so do all the people in the circles I run both business and non-business. Its not a party thing so lets not make it one. Anyone that doesnt know this is an issue is a fool no matter what side of the aisle your on.

Ah, I was referring to Republican politicians. Republican voters are more favorable to it than one would think from watching their representatives. But even among voters, Democrats place more importance on pre-existing coverage. (And of course they have much more favorable views of the ACA overall.)
« Last Edit: October 25, 2019, 04:35:37 AM by MonkeyJenga »

Nickel

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Re: What if ACA is ruled unconstitutional by 5th court of appeals?
« Reply #32 on: October 25, 2019, 03:23:14 PM »
The national party leadership has defanged the one essential lynchpin holding everything together by eliminating the shared responsibility payment, and then made no effort to replace the ACA, which suggests that either they don't know it or they're engaged in a bad-faith effort to make the healthcare system worse for partisan ends.

They knew what they were doing when they removed the tax/mandate from the ACA.

The ACA passed because it still allowed the leeches on our healthcare system to suck extra blood ... but some greedy SOBs want even more.  Hence Texas, et. al., v. U.S.

The Republican AGs challenging the ACA are not seeking to destroy it completely, they are "merely" seeking to eliminate the provisions governing pre-existing conditions and how insurers can set premiums.  Their lawsuit, however, puts the whole ACA in jeopardy.  Baby/bathwater.

Our healthcare system is still flawed, but the ACA was an improvement.  We should keep it until we can do better.  See Canada, Mexico and Europe. 






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Re: What if ACA is ruled unconstitutional by 5th court of appeals?
« Reply #33 on: November 02, 2019, 11:53:18 PM »
If the ACA goes defunct I'd love to emigrate. I have right of abode in the UK but there are plenty of lovely places to live in the world where HC is cheap, even out of pocket.

I'm not sure my US born Wife would be so quick to bail though.

ysette9

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Re: What if ACA is ruled unconstitutional by 5th court of appeals?
« Reply #34 on: November 03, 2019, 10:20:40 AM »
If the ACA goes defunct I'd love to emigrate. I have right of abode in the UK but there are plenty of lovely places to live in the world where HC is cheap, even out of pocket.

I'm not sure my US born Wife would be so quick to bail though.
That is my number one Plan B also. I am also working slowly on my husband. Interestingly he is an immigrant to this country so it is a bit odd that I am the one more favorable to moving. We shall see what the future brings. He might need to see it get bad enough at home on a personal level to be more open to the idea.

Exflyboy

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Re: What if ACA is ruled unconstitutional by 5th court of appeals?
« Reply #35 on: November 03, 2019, 11:50:00 AM »
If the ACA goes defunct I'd love to emigrate. I have right of abode in the UK but there are plenty of lovely places to live in the world where HC is cheap, even out of pocket.

I'm not sure my US born Wife would be so quick to bail though.
That is my number one Plan B also. I am also working slowly on my husband. Interestingly he is an immigrant to this country so it is a bit odd that I am the one more favorable to moving. We shall see what the future brings. He might need to see it get bad enough at home on a personal level to be more open to the idea.

Yes we all have different "pain" threasholds I guess. I mean in theory we could easily afford to pay for our nearly worthless Bronze plan out of pocket. I just don't freaking WANT TO plunk down $1300/month for a plan that pays nothing until we hit the $15k deductible or whatever it is in 2020. So for me if we the subsidies go away I'd be like great.. rent our main house out and be on the next plane to somewhere in SE Asia.

DW on the other hand has really not much idea of how much money we have (its a lot in her mind) and we can afford the $1300/month so why would she want to move? It would be a tough sell.

On the other hand I have 7 years to go before I hit Medicare then our costs will sky rocket in any case so we may just ending up paying. I guess even though we are wealthy I'm just not good at feeling happy about being ripped off!