Author Topic: sol fails at retirement  (Read 10889 times)

Moonwaves

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Re: sol fails at retirement
« Reply #100 on: January 29, 2019, 03:00:16 AM »

---------SNIP---------

At this point in my life I would rather write blog posts twice a week for an audience of one million and get paid zero, than for an audience of 50 and get paid $1000 per post.  And yes, I realize that a new blogger has an audience of zero and gets paid zero, but you get my point.  The attraction of growing a blog isn't in the money.

...

And now I've written an entire blog post on the MMM forum instead of my own blog.  Again.
...You should be motivated to write it, not thinking about reaching a big audience. So writing the blog for 50 people without expecting income would be a good start.
Funny, I came to say the same thing. Well, more to ask, really: How would you feel about writing for an audience of 50 and getting paid zero?

I've been blogging since 2006, some years more, some years less and still keep to what I understood blogging to be then: an online diary. That's incredibly boring for a lot of people (reflected in my stats - I generally have around 50 hits per day but that includes spambots) but it has still been one of the best things I have ever done. The years I have posted less tend to be the years where I was hearing or reading a lot of people saying a blog has to be x, y, or z, or that you have to identify a specific type of blogger and that kind of thing. Knowing that none of that was what I was doing became inhibiting. Apparently I'm not the only one to have thoughts like that and now there's a whole back to the blog movement starting as a result (they even have a hashtag) :). All this to say that if you want to start a blog, just post something. You don't have to have a big launch or a plan for the first 100 days or anything else. Nothing wrong with doing that but you don't have to. And copying old discussion forum posts to form the basis of blogposts is perfectly acceptable. I did that when I wanted to write my debt story up in a place that I "owned" (I did check with the discussion forum owner in question that it was ok and as far as I know there is nothing in the rules here stating your words don't remain yours after posting here).

Edited to fix quotes.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2019, 08:37:07 AM by Moonwaves »

sol

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Re: sol fails at retirement
« Reply #101 on: January 29, 2019, 08:24:35 AM »
How would you feel about writing for an audience of 50 and getting paid zero?

I already do that here!  That part is easy.  I'm here nearly every day, pounding away at a keyboard, just because I like doing it.  There's no need to bother with a blog to do that.  And unlike many of the other retirees here, I actually spend more time here since I retired than I did while working.  I was never much of a forum user when I was at work.

Some of you folks are like an over-eager girlfriend, though.  We just exchanged numbers and all of a sudden you're planning out the lives of our future children.  You have visions for the future that I don't share, at least not yet.


« Last Edit: January 29, 2019, 08:29:26 AM by sol »

nereo

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Re: sol fails at retirement
« Reply #102 on: January 29, 2019, 08:32:27 AM »
Some of you folks are like an over-eager girlfriend, though.  We just exchanged numbers and all of a sudden you're planning out the lives of our future children.  You have visions for the future that I don't share, at least not yet.
Oberon if its a boy, Luna if it's a girl....

Eric

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Re: sol fails at retirement
« Reply #103 on: January 29, 2019, 11:39:42 AM »
Sol -

As someone who recently started a blog, after owning the domain for 2+ years, after ~4 years of writing google doc "posts" to only myself, and of course many posts on this very forum, it's not as big of deal as you're making it out to be.  First, no one cares.  Like really, new blogs are a dime a dozen and most go dark after less than 6 months.  Until you have a fair amount of content, you're basically talking into the void.  Even if you're the best most entertaining writer in the world (and you might be), it will take a fair amount of time.  Second, you can reveal as much or as little about yourself as you'd like.  You could still blog as "Sol".  No reason to put your real name or picture or anything else out there if you don't want to.  Take a look at Dr Doom's site (www.livingafi.com) as a great example of an anonymous blog.  Of course you could always start anonymously and reveal more over time if you feel like it.  No need decide from post #1.  You also get to relay your experiences and include as much or as little as you like.  If you don't want to tackle mental issues on the blog, then don't.  Or at least wait until you get your feet wet.

So sure, you could outline your first 6 months of posts with a plan of how to promote and grow.  But it's hardly necessary.  You could just write one post, and then another one after that, and see where it goes.  I can assure you that a plan is wholly unnecessary.  lol  And really, starting off alienating much of your audience is what may actually draw readers.  Plenty of people read MMM just because they hate him and want to complain about what he writes.

Anyway, echoing others that if you want to do it, you should just start.  The commitment is only as big as you want it to be.  Of course, the real concern is that you're opening yourself up to *actually* fail at retirement, since everyone knows writing a blog means that you screwed up your retirement planning and need money.  :)

spartana

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Re: sol fails at retirement
« Reply #104 on: January 29, 2019, 12:19:29 PM »
^ Well he already went back to work so he is a FIRE failure and Suze Ormand et al will be proven.right and no one can FIRE...EVER! Nope it just can't be done.

I'd say start writing your blog. Put a link in your signature here and see where it goes. I'm sure most of us here look forward to it.

BPA

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Re: sol fails at retirement
« Reply #105 on: January 29, 2019, 06:09:01 PM »
Thanks so much for "failing" and providing a great deal of entertainment, sol.

Between the IRP report and the Vitamix comments, I couldn't stop laughing as I read it.




Dicey

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Re: sol fails at retirement
« Reply #106 on: January 30, 2019, 06:53:36 AM »
Some of you folks are like an over-eager girlfriend, though.  We just exchanged numbers and all of a sudden you're planning out the lives of our future children.  You have visions for the future that I don't share, at least not yet.
Oberon if its a boy, Luna if it's a girl....
Wait! Could this be a Pokemon Love Story?

ExitViaTheCashRamp

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Re: sol fails at retirement
« Reply #107 on: January 30, 2019, 09:31:14 AM »
Some of you folks are like an over-eager girlfriend, though.  We just exchanged numbers and all of a sudden you're planning out the lives of our future children.  You have visions for the future that I don't share, at least not yet.

 I'd like to be the first to complain about the lack of updates and new content on your blog. As a loyal fan, I deserve better treatment. If things don't improve, you cannot expect us to hang around forever with this breadcrumbing you are doing now.

sol

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Re: sol fails at retirement
« Reply #108 on: January 30, 2019, 09:36:06 AM »
I'd like to be the first to complain about the lack of updates and new content on your blog. As a loyal fan, I deserve better treatment. If things don't improve, you cannot expect us to hang around forever with this breadcrumbing you are doing now.

Join my Patreon today for early access to tomorrow's posts today!  Subscribers get exclusive content and behind-the-scenes access!

j/k, I don't have a patreon.  or a blog.

nereo

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Re: sol fails at retirement
« Reply #109 on: January 30, 2019, 11:11:19 AM »
I'd like to be the first to complain about the lack of updates and new content on your blog. As a loyal fan, I deserve better treatment. If things don't improve, you cannot expect us to hang around forever with this breadcrumbing you are doing now.

Join my Patreon today for early access to tomorrow's posts today!  Subscribers get exclusive content and behind-the-scenes access!

j/k, I don't have a patreon.  or a blog.
Thank goodness!  Where do I send my $9.99 monthly auto-reoccurring subscription fee?

lhamo

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Re: sol fails at retirement
« Reply #110 on: January 30, 2019, 11:50:40 AM »
I'd like to be the first to complain about the lack of updates and new content on your blog. As a loyal fan, I deserve better treatment. If things don't improve, you cannot expect us to hang around forever with this breadcrumbing you are doing now.

Join my Patreon today for early access to tomorrow's posts today!  Subscribers get exclusive content and behind-the-scenes access!

j/k, I don't have a patreon.  or a blog.
Thank goodness!  Where do I send my $9.99 monthly auto-reoccurring subscription fee?

Come on @nereo -- you know you want to spring for the $25.99 monthly super patron level and get those free Facebook live weekly beer chats with @sol !

ysette9

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sol fails at retirement
« Reply #111 on: January 30, 2019, 01:07:28 PM »
You people are so spendy!

In seriousness, I do support someone I admire on Patreon, but I think it is at $3/month. That is for someone who just graduated and is starting out in life. No offense to Sol, as much as I admire his contributions here, I’m pretty sure he doesn’t need my monthly support. However, given that you are FI and I am not yet, care to contribute to my get-ysette-to-FI donation campaign? I promise to contribute posts of dubious quality occasionally to the MMM forums in return.

Exflyboy

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Re: sol fails at retirement
« Reply #112 on: January 30, 2019, 09:01:19 PM »
You people are so spendy!

In seriousness, I do support someone I admire on Patreon, but I think it is at $3/month. That is for someone who just graduated and is starting out in life. No offense to Sol, as much as I admire his contributions here, I’m pretty sure he doesn’t need my monthly support. However, given that you are FI and I am not yet, care to contribute to my get-ysette-to-FI donation campaign? I promise to contribute posts of dubious quality occasionally to the MMM forums in return.

I would support you @ysette9 but there is this GoFundme thing for a wall of some kind...:)

UnleashHell

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Re: sol fails at retirement
« Reply #113 on: January 31, 2019, 04:19:20 AM »
^ Well he already went back to work so he is a FIRE failure and Suze Ormand et al will be proven.right and no one can FIRE...EVER! Nope it just can't be done.



SOL = Suze Ormand Lover.

Got it.

MrOnyx

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Re: sol fails at retirement
« Reply #114 on: January 31, 2019, 04:23:23 AM »
^ Well he already went back to work so he is a FIRE failure and Suze Ormand et al will be proven.right and no one can FIRE...EVER! Nope it just can't be done.



SOL = Suze Ormand Lover.

Got it.

He's been a traitor all along! How did we not spot the clues?

Dicey

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Re: sol fails at retirement
« Reply #115 on: January 31, 2019, 05:04:34 AM »
^ Well he already went back to work so he is a FIRE failure and Suze Ormand et al will be proven.right and no one can FIRE...EVER! Nope it just can't be done.



SOL = Suze Ormand Lover.

Got it.

He's been a traitor all along! How did we not spot the clues?
Pretty sure his lack of capitalization means he's anti-SO. It's the clue within the clue.

soccerluvof4

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Re: sol fails at retirement
« Reply #116 on: January 31, 2019, 06:21:17 AM »
"Just ask Sol" perfect!

spartana

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Re: sol fails at retirement
« Reply #117 on: January 31, 2019, 08:56:17 AM »
^ Well he already went back to work so he is a FIRE failure and Suze Ormand et al will be proven.right and no one can FIRE...EVER! Nope it just can't be done.



SOL = Suze Ormand Lover.

Got it.
Well she DOES have her own island and millions so with @sol's pretty face he can probably become her new gold digging gigolo toy-boy. You know...as a side gig.

lhamo

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Re: sol fails at retirement
« Reply #118 on: January 31, 2019, 12:06:55 PM »
^ Well he already went back to work so he is a FIRE failure and Suze Ormand et al will be proven.right and no one can FIRE...EVER! Nope it just can't be done.



SOL = Suze Ormand Lover.

Got it.
Well she DOES have her own island and millions so with @sol's pretty face he can probably become her new gold digging gigolo toy-boy. You know...as a side gig.

Since Suze is gay that might be the best FIRE gig around....

spartana

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Re: sol fails at retirement
« Reply #119 on: January 31, 2019, 12:19:06 PM »
^ Well he already went back to work so he is a FIRE failure and Suze Ormand et al will be proven.right and no one can FIRE...EVER! Nope it just can't be done.



SOL = Suze Ormand Lover.

Got it.
Well she DOES have her own island and millions so with @sol's pretty face he can probably become her new gold digging gigolo toy-boy. You know...as a side gig.

Since Suze is gay that might be the best FIRE gig around....
Even better! She can just get him a tux and have him escort her to all her functions where she tells the world how much she "hates, hate, hates FIRE" and its impossible to do unless you have over $5 MM. He doesn't have to "do" anything but look purty

sol

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Re: sol fails at retirement
« Reply #120 on: January 31, 2019, 12:45:57 PM »
He doesn't have to "do" anything but look purty

Despite the forum avatar with big ears, I am a pretty normal looking dude.  I am too old to have the cabana boy glow, and too poor to have a personal style team keeping me looking my best (like Suze does).  Besides, I suspect that I talk too much to have any job that requires being looked at.

As an update on my short-term retirement gig:  this isn't really working out.  I put in about six hours last week as part of the spin-up process, but then Mon/Tues/Weds I worked zero hours.  Apparently I'm just not that motivated to sit at a desk and think extra hard.  Monday was a school holiday so I had kids home all day that prevented me from working.  Tuesday I was involved in some local police activity that kind of used up my day.  I had some free time on Wednesday that I could have worked, but decided to go play ukulele with some peeps instead.  I'm a bad employee, it seems.

But I'll try to put in a few hours today, because I told them I would help and I can't just leave them hanging.  It's just become crystal clear to me that at any remotely reasonable price I'm not keen on working again.  They could offer me $100/hour and I'd be ambivalent about it.  The conversation I've been having with myself goes something like "I should really really work a little today, but honestly I'd rather go for a run and then spend some time in the woodshop.  And my fish tank really needs to be cleaned, and it's sunny so I was considering taking my dogs to the dog park this afternoon before it starts raining again...  maybe tomorrow?"

So far, tomorrow keeps becoming tomorrow again and I haven't done anything.  The money is just so inconsequential.  What's a few hundred dollars here or there at this point?  My investment accounts fluctuate thousands (and sometimes tens of thousands) of dollars every day, so the financial incentive behind devoting my day to someone else's work isn't even a rounding error in my nest egg totals. 

So I'm probably going to wind down this side-gig as soon as I can, probably later next week.  It's been cutting into my daily agenda too much.  How did I ever manage to find 40 hours per week to do this stuff?

spartana

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Re: sol fails at retirement
« Reply #121 on: January 31, 2019, 01:48:55 PM »
The problem with side gigs of this type is its hard to get focused and motivated, and even harder imho to go back to being a slacker FIREd person once the focus and motivation is found.

I actually didn't quit my job when I was 42, I gave notice and quit when I was around 40 to do a long sabbatical. They convinced me to stay on longer to come in once a week and "as needed". The "as needed" soon became "always needed" and I found I was working much more than planned so quit again. They then talked me in to continuing the once a week thing and again I said OK. That was even worse. Not only was I tied to a commitment for something I really was just doing to help out, which I really started to dread, but I found that the evil deadly sin of pride to do a great job caused me to work harder than I wanted to. It was hard to put away that pride when working, which meant it was as hard to switch off between "work mode" into "slacker mode" once a week. So I quit again. For good.

nereo

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Re: sol fails at retirement
« Reply #122 on: January 31, 2019, 01:53:23 PM »
Really intrigued by both of your experiences, Sol & Spartana. Ramping up enthusiasm was one thing I had not put much through into when considering the possibility of contract work further down the road.  At the same time I see how it could be difficult for me.  I spent months in the field only to return to an office where I'm supposed to analyze and write everything up.  And after going months in the fresh air, it's really, really hard for me to just sit down adn focus on the spreadsheet in front of me, even when I know I can leave as soon as I've finished whatever daily task I'm working on, even though my future is at least somewhat influenced by doing the work quickly and efficiently. 

okits

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Re: sol fails at retirement
« Reply #123 on: January 31, 2019, 02:41:10 PM »
As an update on my short-term retirement gig:  this isn't really working out.  I put in about six hours last week as part of the spin-up process, but then Mon/Tues/Weds I worked zero hours.  Apparently I'm just not that motivated to sit at a desk and think extra hard.  Monday was a school holiday so I had kids home all day that prevented me from working.  Tuesday I was involved in some local police activity that kind of used up my day.  I had some free time on Wednesday that I could have worked, but decided to go play ukulele with some peeps instead.  I'm a bad employee, it seems.

But I'll try to put in a few hours today, because I told them I would help and I can't just leave them hanging.  It's just become crystal clear to me that at any remotely reasonable price I'm not keen on working again.  They could offer me $100/hour and I'd be ambivalent about it.  The conversation I've been having with myself goes something like "I should really really work a little today, but honestly I'd rather go for a run and then spend some time in the woodshop.  And my fish tank really needs to be cleaned, and it's sunny so I was considering taking my dogs to the dog park this afternoon before it starts raining again...  maybe tomorrow?"

So far, tomorrow keeps becoming tomorrow again and I haven't done anything.  The money is just so inconsequential.  What's a few hundred dollars here or there at this point?  My investment accounts fluctuate thousands (and sometimes tens of thousands) of dollars every day, so the financial incentive behind devoting my day to someone else's work isn't even a rounding error in my nest egg totals. 

So I'm probably going to wind down this side-gig as soon as I can, probably later next week.  It's been cutting into my daily agenda too much.  How did I ever manage to find 40 hours per week to do this stuff?

Conclusion: being FIREd rocks, having the obligations of a job sucks.

sol, my friend, thanks for taking one for the team and making sure the above is true.  😄
At least we get to congratulate you a second time on retiring!

ysette9

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Re: sol fails at retirement
« Reply #124 on: January 31, 2019, 04:20:47 PM »
Perhaps this is a lesson for all of us who think that making a little extra $ during retirement via consulting or side gigs or whatever would be easy. I can see that after pulling the plug it could be very tough to bully your brain back into the work mindset, even if it is just for a few hours here and there.

My parents retired a couple of years back and before so, my father had talked with some excitement about going back as a consultant. I think he was salivating at the $$$ possibilities that experienced consultants can make. In reality they have adapted amazingly well to the life of not getting out of bed until 8, traveling several months out of the year, and doing whatever the hell they please. I haven't heard talk of consulting in any manner in quite some time.

sol

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Re: sol fails at retirement
« Reply #125 on: January 31, 2019, 04:48:02 PM »
I took my dogs to the dog park with my dad this afternoon.  He is also retired, and he had some good advice for me.

He said it doesn't make any sense to think about the hourly wage you could make by working.  Work is never again going to be measured in dollars, at this point, so if my only motivation to do this particular work is the hourly wage they're offering then I shouldn't be doing it at all.  And that in this case, I have to do this particular project because I said I would, regardless of the money. 

And it kind of makes sense to me.  I've taken on a variety of "work" type projects in my retirement, things that consume large chunks of my time on a recurring interval in exchange for supporting some organization or cause that I believe in and want to advance.  They tend to cost me money, instead of paying me money, but I do them enthusiastically anyway because that's how I want to spend my time.  This paying side job, by contrast, pays me much more per hour than my old 9-5 ever did but I just can't seem to find the motivation to give it more than the bare minimum of effort.  It's like the value of my work is no longer measured in dollars. 

Now that I've figured that out, it seems silly that I let someone talk me into doing work I didn't really want to do just because it had dollars attached.  That was dumb.  I should be looking for work that I want to do, regardless of whether it pays or not.  The money side of life is solved already.

Interestingly, the few such opportunities that I have found since retiring pay nothing at all in terms of dollars, but do come with considerable social capital.  That still makes them feel worthwhile to me in a way that exceeds just the utility of the work itself.  They flatter my sense of self-importance with titles that make me seem responsible, and they put me in touch with networks of people in my community who are eager for me to succeed in those positions.

Seeing that written out has reminded me that I used to enjoy similar benefits at my old job.  Many people, here and on other retirement blogs, have written about finding their new "identity" in retirement, as if their former job helped define their sense of self worth and they didn't know who they would be without it.  I never thought of myself as one of those people, in part because I sometimes had conflicts with my agency and was eager to get away from that office, but I now realize that outside of the confines of my agency and my immediate coworkers, working there did confer a certain kind of social status with people in the outside world.  Like people usually respect doctors even when they are not at work, so what is a doctor after he has retired and isn't a doctor anymore?  Being a government scientist isn't quite the same, but it's not worth nothing.  Before I got married, it still helped me pick up chicks.

So I'm happy to report that my retirement volunteer gigs, which do not pay me any dollars, have more than compensated for any perceived loss of social status in my retirement.  I still get to feel useful and "important", whatever that means, and I get to work on things that I really believe in.  My experiment with "un-retiring" by taking this part time gig in exchange for a 35% raise over my former federal pay grade, however, has turned out to be a failure.  I see that the work is useful, but I don't really believe in it the same way and the money isn't motivating me at all. 

MMM's blog posts back me up on this one.  He used to write about how people kept trying to pay him for work he wanted to do anyway, like helping out friends with construction projects or welding or whatever, and the forum discussed those opportunities as examples of how it's easy to make a little money in retirement without really trying.  I blew it, though.  I didn't find a way to get paid for the work I wanted to do anyways, I let money tempt me into doing work I wasn't really interested in.  MMM's blog wasn't clear enough that I got the message:  don't work for money, work because you want to do the work and if they pay you for it then that's fine, but don't let that be the reason you're doing it.

If I wanted to work for money, I should have stayed at my old job.  I walked away from that desk for a reason, and then five months later I sort of forgot about that reason.  Oops.  If there's a lesson here it's that once you hit FI, money should no longer be a factor in your decision making.  It just interferes with finding the right answers.



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Re: sol fails at retirement
« Reply #126 on: January 31, 2019, 05:24:49 PM »
As an update on my short-term retirement gig:  this isn't really working out.  I put in about six hours last week as part of the spin-up process, but then Mon/Tues/Weds I worked zero hours.  Apparently I'm just not that motivated to sit at a desk and think extra hard.  Monday was a school holiday so I had kids home all day that prevented me from working.  Tuesday I was involved in some local police activity that kind of used up my day.  I had some free time on Wednesday that I could have worked, but decided to go play ukulele with some peeps instead.  I'm a bad employee, it seems.
You mean you're failing at failing retirement.

Bateaux

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Re: sol fails at retirement
« Reply #127 on: January 31, 2019, 07:10:46 PM »
Sol, I just read your comments from today.  Powerful stuff, almost like you were speaking directly to me. Forget the blog, just keep feeding us here.  I have no doubt that once I quit work, I'm done.  There isn't much that I'd do for money, that would pay me as much or require as little effort as what I'm doing now.  I'm likely sticking it out till August 2020.  So many things are calling me though.  My house in Florida that I want to continue to remodel, as in with my own hands.  Long hiking trails and big mountains.   Oceans to sail and rivers to paddle.  It's going to be more Fat FIRE, but with common sense.  Once I taste that freedom, trading hours for dollars will seem insane.

BicycleB

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Re: sol fails at retirement
« Reply #128 on: January 31, 2019, 07:56:06 PM »

If I wanted to work for money, I should have stayed at my old job.  I walked away from that desk for a reason, and then five months later I sort of forgot about that reason.  Oops.  If there's a lesson here it's that once you hit FI, money should no longer be a factor in your decision making.  It just interferes with finding the right answers.

You DID fail!

Good thing you can learn from your experience. Allegedly.

:)

WalkaboutStache

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Re: sol fails at retirement
« Reply #129 on: January 31, 2019, 10:52:35 PM »


Now that I've figured that out, it seems silly that I let someone talk me into doing work I didn't really want to do just because it had dollars attached.  That was dumb.  I should be looking for work that I want to do, regardless of whether it pays or not.  The money side of life is solved already.

[...]

So I'm happy to report that my retirement volunteer gigs, which do not pay me any dollars, have more than compensated for any perceived loss of social status in my retirement.  I still get to feel useful and "important", whatever that means, and I get to work on things that I really believe in.  My experiment with "un-retiring" by taking this part time gig in exchange for a 35% raise over my former federal pay grade, however, has turned out to be a failure.  I see that the work is useful, but I don't really believe in it the same way and the money isn't motivating me at all. 


I actually see the 2 things above differently.  First, it was not dumb because you learned what you did in a reasonably painless way.  You lost 3 weeks to an exercise that taught you that work for money only is no longer your thing and will never be again.  You avoided committing to a much longer period in the future, and inoculated yourself against it.  Had you not taken this gig, next time someone threw a bigger figure at you for a longer period you may feel tempted, or maybe even a little regretful (brains are funny) and gone for a 3 month lesson instead of a 3 week one.  And you got some discretionary cash from it, and built more social capital on the forum by reflecting on your experience so that others don't need to learn that lesson in the same way.

So, your un-retirement was not a failure.  It was a bit like dating a popular girl in high school because you had a chance, and then realizing she is not that good of a human (with apologies to you popular high schoolers of years past and present - I just needed a handy stereotype to make a point).  If you do it again for a fistful of money you don't need, then you can say this was a failure.

Here's to more walks with your dad whenever the fancy strikes you.

ExitViaTheCashRamp

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Re: sol fails at retirement
« Reply #130 on: February 01, 2019, 04:45:48 AM »
Tuesday I was involved in some local police activity that kind of used up my day.

 This is the blog post I can't wait to read. Come in Agent Sol - report !

 I think your 'government scientist' cover is blown.

Financial.Velociraptor

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Re: sol fails at retirement
« Reply #131 on: February 01, 2019, 07:48:52 AM »
The internet retirement police are going to have to give you walk.  You just failed at failing at retirement!

RelaxedGal

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Re: sol fails at retirement
« Reply #132 on: February 01, 2019, 07:55:36 AM »
I took my dogs to the dog park with my dad this afternoon.  He is also retired, and he had some good advice for me.

[snip]

If I wanted to work for money, I should have stayed at my old job.  I walked away from that desk for a reason, and then five months later I sort of forgot about that reason.  Oops.  If there's a lesson here it's that once you hit FI, money should no longer be a factor in your decision making.  It just interferes with finding the right answers.

THIS is why I would love it if you had a blog, or Heck, a journal here.  Somewhere to collect these great insights so I don't have to dig for them.  I also loved
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/mini-money-mustaches/anyone-fire-in-conjunction-with-having-a-child-first-or-later-born/msg2260379/

And I'd love updates on your electric car and solar panels; as a user of both I need some more confirmation bias to feel good about myself.

Roots&Wings

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Re: sol fails at retirement
« Reply #133 on: February 01, 2019, 12:26:43 PM »
THIS is why I would love it if you had a blog, or Heck, a journal here.  Somewhere to collect these great insights so I don't have to dig for them.  I also loved
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/mini-money-mustaches/anyone-fire-in-conjunction-with-having-a-child-first-or-later-born/msg2260379/

And I'd love updates on your electric car and solar panels; as a user of both I need some more confirmation bias to feel good about myself.

Indeed, every post from sol is a ray of forum sunshine. I'm now wondering if sol is actually pronounced "suul" in the Spanish sun way, or "saul" in the name way, or some other hidden meaning.

Congrats on the failed retirement and seeing the light again!

Abe Froman

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Re: sol fails at retirement
« Reply #134 on: February 01, 2019, 01:48:04 PM »
Here's to more walks with your dad whenever the fancy strikes you.

... and if you care to share those, that would be cool. I find some of the more interesting threads are those where father or mother are imparting words of wisdom and the subsequent churn of thought shows up on message forums or blogs.

okits

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Re: sol fails at retirement
« Reply #135 on: February 01, 2019, 06:52:26 PM »
I took my dogs to the dog park with my dad this afternoon.  He is also retired, and he had some good advice for me.

[snip]

If I wanted to work for money, I should have stayed at my old job.  I walked away from that desk for a reason, and then five months later I sort of forgot about that reason.  Oops.  If there's a lesson here it's that once you hit FI, money should no longer be a factor in your decision making.  It just interferes with finding the right answers.

THIS is why I would love it if you had a blog, or Heck, a journal here.  Somewhere to collect these great insights so I don't have to dig for them.  I also loved
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/mini-money-mustaches/anyone-fire-in-conjunction-with-having-a-child-first-or-later-born/msg2260379/

And I'd love updates on your electric car and solar panels; as a user of both I need some more confirmation bias to feel good about myself.

Just click on a user’s name and then “read posts”.  Has the added benefit of making it easier to notice if they’re particularly funny or grumpy on a certain day.  😜

Paul der Krake

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Re: sol fails at retirement
« Reply #136 on: February 01, 2019, 09:02:13 PM »
Every stake you claim I'll be watching you.

okits

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Re: sol fails at retirement
« Reply #137 on: February 01, 2019, 09:42:17 PM »
Every stake you claim I'll be watching you.

Oh, sure, you just had to go and make it weird.  :P

spartana

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Re: sol fails at retirement
« Reply #138 on: February 01, 2019, 10:28:02 PM »
As an update on my short-term retirement gig:  this isn't really working out. 
You mean you're failing at failing retirement.
That's the dream!

Mr. Green

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Re: sol fails at retirement
« Reply #139 on: February 07, 2019, 07:34:07 AM »
My investment accounts fluctuate thousands (and sometimes tens of thousands) of dollars every day, so the financial incentive behind devoting my day to someone else's work isn't even a rounding error in my nest egg totals.
This is a great description for how inconsequential money has become for me, and people in general I imagine, in retirement. You don't think retiring was like flipping a switch. I used to do this for money and now they're offering me so much more for such a small amount of work! Surely that's worth just a little bit of my time. But it was like flipping a switch. You won the game and dollars have become irrelevant. They might as well be paying you in seashells, as far as the motivation goes. I actually took a full-time job again and realized two weeks in it was a huge mistake. I couldn't be that person anymore. It was a weird experience, but eye opening.

markbike528CBX

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Re: sol fails at retirement
« Reply #140 on: February 07, 2019, 10:08:58 AM »
My investment accounts fluctuate thousands (and sometimes tens of thousands) of dollars every day, so the financial incentive behind devoting my day to someone else's work isn't even a rounding error in my nest egg totals.
This is a great description for how inconsequential money has become for me, and people in general I imagine, in retirement. You don't think retiring was like flipping a switch. I used to do this for money and now they're offering me so much more for such a small amount of work! Surely that's worth just a little bit of my time. But it was like flipping a switch. You won the game and dollars have become irrelevant. They might as well be paying you in seashells, as far as the motivation goes. I actually took a full-time job again and realized two weeks in it was a huge mistake. I couldn't be that person anymore. It was a weird experience, but eye opening.

Since FIREing I've suspected that I would have the same issues as sol and MrGreen, but hadn't articulated things quite as clearly as they have above.
I spent the last two years at work stareing at my FIRE spreadsheet, wondering "WTF am I doing here".    I've never been a great employee, so not only "couldn't be that person anymore" , I never was that person to start with.  Going into a new work environment like that seems problematic.

EscapeVelocity2020

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Re: sol fails at retirement
« Reply #141 on: February 07, 2019, 01:55:53 PM »
A thought at this point - FI means that you don't need to work but you are used to the routine so you can kind of do whatever you want.  At best you eventually get a package, at worst you get reprimanded.  Most of the time, in my experience, you get all sorts of interesting opportunities (like my wife being a SAHP then returning to work as a teacher, and standing up for other teachers that are too worried to speak up because they need the income).  For me, well, I'm living in Paris working at a French company for a year on other people's money, so that's kinda fun. 

But it sounds like ER is a one-way trip (or at least preferably, from the perspective of the ER'ed).  Like many others, I would probably get offers to work for better money or work under even more liberal circumstances, but once you taste freedom, the idea of work loses its thrall.  I felt a similar thing when I first started to travel for work and realized I didn't have to be in an office M-F.  I now bill my time in planes as time in the office.

There might be alternate income-possible arrangements that work after FIRE - like blogging something meaningful or creating a small business or Etsy shop (soap perhaps?), but traditional work (like what an engineer like me or a public employee like Sol) are probably off the table. 

It seems like a step change between FI and ER.  Although it's probably a tiny niche, but it would be interesting to hear more about what folks think.  For me, I personally lament that, once folks FIRE, they are reluctant to define the fact that ER meant finding income producing work that was more fulfilling than their first career.  Either they are lumped in to 'returned to work' crowd or they are self described as being retired but accidentally making the 'passive income' they need to stay ER.

There seem to be very few, very young, really retired people.

Malkynn

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Re: sol fails at retirement
« Reply #142 on: February 07, 2019, 02:02:40 PM »
A thought at this point - FI means that you don't need to work but you are used to the routine so you can kind of do whatever you want.  At best you eventually get a package, at worst you get reprimanded.  Most of the time, in my experience, you get all sorts of interesting opportunities (like my wife being a SAHP then returning to work as a teacher, and standing up for other teachers that are too worried to speak up because they need the income).  For me, well, I'm living in Paris working at a French company for a year on other people's money, so that's kinda fun. 

But it sounds like ER is a one-way trip (or at least preferably, from the perspective of the ER'ed).  Like many others, I would probably get offers to work for better money or work under even more liberal circumstances, but once you taste freedom, the idea of work loses its thrall.  I felt a similar thing when I first started to travel for work and realized I didn't have to be in an office M-F.  I now bill my time in planes as time in the office.

There might be alternate income-possible arrangements that work after FIRE - like blogging something meaningful or creating a small business or Etsy shop (soap perhaps?), but traditional work (like what an engineer like me or a public employee like Sol) are probably off the table. 

It seems like a step change between FI and ER.  Although it's probably a tiny niche, but it would be interesting to hear more about what folks think.  For me, I personally lament that, once folks FIRE, they are reluctant to define the fact that ER meant finding income producing work that was more fulfilling than their first career.  Either they are lumped in to 'returned to work' crowd or they are self described as being retired but accidentally making the 'passive income' they need to stay ER.

There seem to be very few, very young, really retired people.

I wouldn't agree with this because the vast majority of my family members have had full careers in retirement. Some in related fields, some in totally different fields, but almost none of them retired and then never did paid work again.

Sol said from the beginning that it wasn't work he wanted to do and he was lured back by how much value *they* put on his work, not how much value *he* put on doing it.

I think RE is a one way street, for sure, away from doing work you don't actually want to do. That doesn't mean there is no paid work after RE, Pete does tons of it.


EscapeVelocity2020

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Re: sol fails at retirement
« Reply #143 on: February 07, 2019, 02:15:57 PM »
I wouldn't agree with this because the vast majority of my family members have had full careers in retirement. Some in related fields, some in totally different fields, but almost none of them retired and then never did paid work again.

Sol said from the beginning that it wasn't work he wanted to do and he was lured back by how much value *they* put on his work, not how much value *he* put on doing it.

I think RE is a one way street, for sure, away from doing work you don't actually want to do. That doesn't mean there is no paid work after RE, Pete does tons of it.

Whoa there hairless cat, I think we mostly agree :)

Mr. Green

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Re: sol fails at retirement
« Reply #144 on: February 07, 2019, 02:59:57 PM »
It seems like a step change between FI and ER.  Although it's probably a tiny niche, but it would be interesting to hear more about what folks think.  For me, I personally lament that, once folks FIRE, they are reluctant to define the fact that ER meant finding income producing work that was more fulfilling than their first career.  Either they are lumped in to 'returned to work' crowd or they are self described as being retired but accidentally making the 'passive income' they need to stay ER.
Like anything else in life, there are always shades of gray that inevitably leave people arguing about the color. I'm sure there are people who "retire" to other paid work and planned to do that all along, whether it's another career or something more fungible like a blog. I'm sure there are young people who flat out retire as well. My wife and I are in that camp right now. We're taking a 5-7 month tour of the US this year and considering travelling internationally next year.

My dad always said, "If you go out of your way to help people, money is a natural byproduct of that." Money is simply a medium we use as a store of value. No longer receiving money simply means ceasing to add value to other people's lives. It's hard to add literally no value to anyone's life while living your own, which is why FIRE'ees so frequently find themselves still making money. If anything we're more likely to earn money because we can give others what most people can't, their time. And because that resource is more scarce than money, people feel inclined to reward someone else's time donation with, surprise surprise, money!

I'm sure if Sol volunteered for something that he enjoyed doing and some money eventually came along with it, he'd gladly take it. But the key is he was already spending his time doing something he wanted to be doing. The money was an accident.

EscapeVelocity2020

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Re: sol fails at retirement
« Reply #145 on: February 07, 2019, 03:35:04 PM »
Like anything else in life, there are always shades of gray that inevitably leave people arguing about the color. I'm sure there are people who "retire" to other paid work and planned to do that all along, whether it's another career or something more fungible like a blog. I'm sure there are young people who flat out retire as well. My wife and I are in that camp right now. We're taking a 5-7 month tour of the US this year and considering travelling internationally next year.

My dad always said, "If you go out of your way to help people, money is a natural byproduct of that." Money is simply a medium we use as a store of value. No longer receiving money simply means ceasing to add value to other people's lives. It's hard to add literally no value to anyone's life while living your own, which is why FIRE'ees so frequently find themselves still making money. If anything we're more likely to earn money because we can give others what most people can't, their time. And because that resource is more scarce than money, people feel inclined to reward someone else's time donation with, surprise surprise, money!

I'm sure if Sol volunteered for something that he enjoyed doing and some money eventually came along with it, he'd gladly take it. But the key is he was already spending his time doing something he wanted to be doing. The money was an accident.

I think you, like me, would be thrown paid gigs because they ensnare us.  Being FI, sometimes I offer people money because I know it gives me some power over them.  And most times that is the most valuable thing money can do for me anymore.  Of course I'm older now, so I'm pretty conservative on paying others because I don't need anything other than basics like help cooking and exercising better.

Malkynn

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Re: sol fails at retirement
« Reply #146 on: February 07, 2019, 04:06:47 PM »
I wouldn't agree with this because the vast majority of my family members have had full careers in retirement. Some in related fields, some in totally different fields, but almost none of them retired and then never did paid work again.

Sol said from the beginning that it wasn't work he wanted to do and he was lured back by how much value *they* put on his work, not how much value *he* put on doing it.

I think RE is a one way street, for sure, away from doing work you don't actually want to do. That doesn't mean there is no paid work after RE, Pete does tons of it.

Whoa there hairless cat, I think we mostly agree :)

Ugh!
How dare you!!!

I am NOT a hairless cat! That's a Cornish Rex thankyouverymuch and Cornish Rex not only have hair, but super soft and wavy hair. I'm not some oily Sphynx!

I have never been so offended IN MY LIFE.
*storms off and slams door*


(... actually, Sphynx cats are by far the friendliest of all cats. They're lovely animals.)

Lol, as for my disagreeing with you, my posts often come off as more defiant than they actually are. If you read what I wrote with a more lackadaisical tone of vague disagreement for the sake of conversation, then that's closer to my meaning.

EscapeVelocity2020

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Re: sol fails at retirement
« Reply #147 on: February 07, 2019, 04:26:59 PM »
Ugh!
How dare you!!!

I am NOT a hairless cat! That's a Cornish Rex thankyouverymuch and Cornish Rex not only have hair, but super soft and wavy hair. I'm not some oily Sphynx!

Holy crebs (and yes I read the whole reply and am not getting emotional).  We (being mostly my wife) have a short haired retriever and get the comment 'did you shave your dog' quite often.  It would be nice to fly off into a rage most time, am I right?

And also, I love cats!  But my wife wanted a dog too. 

Sorry, way off topic, but fun thanks Malkynn!

spartana

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Re: sol fails at retirement
« Reply #148 on: February 08, 2019, 08:30:15 AM »
My investment accounts fluctuate thousands (and sometimes tens of thousands) of dollars every day, so the financial incentive behind devoting my day to someone else's work isn't even a rounding error in my nest egg totals.
This is a great description for how inconsequential money has become for me, and people in general I imagine, in retirement. You don't think retiring was like flipping a switch. I used to do this for money and now they're offering me so much more for such a small amount of work! Surely that's worth just a little bit of my time. But it was like flipping a switch. You won the game and dollars have become irrelevant. They might as well be paying you in seashells, as far as the motivation goes. I actually took a full-time job again and realized two weeks in it was a huge mistake. I couldn't be that person anymore. It was a weird experience, but eye opening.
This ^. For me, once I had "enough", I have lost all desire and motivation for money or to spend any of my (very precioussss) time to earn more money. It is not even a tiny blip on my radar and it's not something I seek in any form. I want to spend my limited time doing things I enjoy or that help others without any regard to earning money. If I wouldn't do it for free, I wouldn't do it for money. You could offer me a million bucks to spend a month in an office and I'd turn it down. You could offer me nothing to spend a year in Antarctica shoveling penguin poop and I'd be on the first plane out.  The only thing I want is more time...lots and lots of time to do the things I want to do.

ETA of course if you offered me a million to spend a year in Antarctica I'd take it. However, so far since I've been ER there hasn't been anything (yet) that pays that I am willing to trade even a second of my time doing for money.

I'd like to quote something that @Jon_Snow wrote in his journal that sums it up better than I can:

"I'd like to think that all of us here are going to do what brings us the most happiness at whatever point in our lives we are at. Hell, if I thought I might be happier helming a construction crew for six months, banking 80k or so, and then slipping back into my current FIRE mode....I WOULD. But honestly, I can't imagine a job scenario, regardless of money, that would bring the the joy....yes, JOY....that my current existence does. "
« Last Edit: February 08, 2019, 09:15:37 AM by spartana »

Dicey

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Re: sol fails at retirement
« Reply #149 on: February 08, 2019, 10:45:52 AM »
My investment accounts fluctuate thousands (and sometimes tens of thousands) of dollars every day, so the financial incentive behind devoting my day to someone else's work isn't even a rounding error in my nest egg totals.
This is a great description for how inconsequential money has become for me, and people in general I imagine, in retirement. You don't think retiring was like flipping a switch. I used to do this for money and now they're offering me so much more for such a small amount of work! Surely that's worth just a little bit of my time. But it was like flipping a switch. You won the game and dollars have become irrelevant. They might as well be paying you in seashells, as far as the motivation goes. I actually took a full-time job again and realized two weeks in it was a huge mistake. I couldn't be that person anymore. It was a weird experience, but eye opening.
This ^. For me, once I had "enough", I have lost all desire and motivation for money or to spend any of my (very precioussss) time to earn more money. It is not even a tiny blip on my radar and it's not something I seek in any form. I want to spend my limited time doing things I enjoy or that help others without any regard to earning money. If I wouldn't do it for free, I wouldn't do it for money. You could offer me a million bucks to spend a month in an office and I'd turn it down. You could offer me nothing to spend a year in Antarctica shoveling penguin poop and I'd be on the first plane out.  The only thing I want is more time...lots and lots of time to do the things I want to do.

ETA of course if you offered me a million to spend a year in Antarctica I'd take it. However, so far since I've been ER there hasn't been anything (yet) that pays that I am willing to trade even a second of my time doing for money.

I'd like to quote something that @Jon_Snow wrote in his journal that sums it up better than I can:

"I'd like to think that all of us here are going to do what brings us the most happiness at whatever point in our lives we are at. Hell, if I thought I might be happier helming a construction crew for six months, banking 80k or so, and then slipping back into my current FIRE mode....I WOULD. But honestly, I can't imagine a job scenario, regardless of money, that would bring the the joy....yes, JOY....that my current existence does. "
I completely agree. Zero desire to earn money, but paradoxically, increased desire to give to causes we care about. DH and I flip houses slowly for fun, but we do it mostly to keep ourselves busy. Due to his mom and her pal Al Z. Heimer living with us, we can't go anywhere or do many of the things we want to do. We love the challenge of taking an ugly house and using our bodies and minds to solve scores of riddles to create a safe, warm haven for a new family. The money we make gets socked away for future travel and allows us to be more generous than we could before. We also have the luxury of taking our time and doing it right, which someone who does this for a living doesn't experience without angst. But a genuine j-o-b for moi? #getthefuckouttahere!