Author Topic: So how much does it really cost to live early retired?  (Read 5160 times)

GOFU

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So how much does it really cost to live early retired?
« on: February 08, 2018, 08:59:12 AM »
I know, I know, I know. Everybody is different - lifestyles, interests, activities, all of it. I know that.

I have read a million takes on the percentages - 4%, etc., etc.

But in terms of actual dollars people are spending to live as they please and do what they want to do, how much is it?

I am this close (holding up my finger and thumb with a very small small space between), and maybe it is the paralysis by analysis, but would people be willing to share how much in actual $$ they are spending a year to live an active, pleasant, joyful, and Mustachian early retirement? If there is something extraordinary that skews your number then maybe you can factor that out.

If there are a couple of young kids in your budget that would be of significant interest to me too.

Thanks.
   
« Last Edit: February 08, 2018, 09:02:30 AM by GOFU »

daverobev

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Re: So how much does it really cost to live early retired?
« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2018, 09:05:33 AM »
Your question is completely unanswerable.

1) It depends on where you live

2) There is no point comparing you to other people

3) The difference between barebones and comfortable and luxury are different. Do you have family on another continent you want to see regularly? Do you pay for health insurance?

There is just no way.

I would hazard a really stupid guess that 2-2.5k a month per adult would afford a comfortable lifestyle assuming a modest paid for home in a non-crazy tax burden part of the world. I have no idea with healthcare costs added.

You need to give your own numbers; then perhaps people can suggest if you are nearly there/there/way past there.
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Fishindude

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Re: So how much does it really cost to live early retired?
« Reply #2 on: February 08, 2018, 09:51:49 AM »
My retirement spending is pretty close to what I was spending when working full time.
 

Trede

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Re: So how much does it really cost to live early retired?
« Reply #3 on: February 08, 2018, 10:12:23 AM »
I get it, you are looking for benchmarks to get a "feel good" that your plan is reasonable.  I'm not FIRE'd yet, but I went searching for the same thing.  I posted this one in my journal recently:
https://www.blackrock.com/investing/literature/whitepaper/retirement-spending-whitepaper-final-stamped.pdf

It's not specific to early retirement, but page 8 has median annual pre-tax income and spending for pre- and post-retirement for three different buckets of wealth levels.  Closest thing I've been able to find to a benchmark, and not even Mustachian, but perhaps someone else has found something better.

dougules

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Re: So how much does it really cost to live early retired?
« Reply #4 on: February 08, 2018, 10:50:17 AM »
My retirement spending is pretty close to what I was spending when working full time.

How does healthcare figure into that?

John Doe

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Re: So how much does it really cost to live early retired?
« Reply #5 on: February 08, 2018, 10:58:34 AM »
Not sure it will help, but in our case it takes about $55k/year for our current lifestyle plus we budget about another $20K for travel annually.  This is for a two person Canadian household so we really do not have to budget for healthcare.

Livingthedream55

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Re: So how much does it really cost to live early retired?
« Reply #6 on: February 08, 2018, 11:05:47 AM »
I am living now on $24,000 annually now (and have been for years) so I figure no reason why I couldn't live on that easily in retirement. That amount even allows for modest travel and hobbies. Pension plus my own savings will give me close to $40,000 so I anticipate even being able to save a good amount each year in retirement.

I have the benefit of being able to stay in the group health insurance pool when I take my government pension.
Paid for smaller house (downsized two years ago)
Kids are young adults
Like a lot of no cost/free fun things to do and don't see that changing much
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GOFU

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Re: So how much does it really cost to live early retired?
« Reply #7 on: February 08, 2018, 11:41:44 AM »
Your question is completely unanswerable.

1) It depends on where you live

2) There is no point comparing you to other people

3) The difference between barebones and comfortable and luxury are different. Do you have family on another continent you want to see regularly? Do you pay for health insurance?

There is just no way.

I would hazard a really stupid guess that 2-2.5k a month per adult would afford a comfortable lifestyle assuming a modest paid for home in a non-crazy tax burden part of the world. I have no idea with healthcare costs added.

You need to give your own numbers; then perhaps people can suggest if you are nearly there/there/way past there.

I understand. I guess I am a little disoriented because where live now can be done for about $800 a month for a couple with two young kids. I know that if I retire back to the US that is not going to be possible. So I guess I am grasping in the dark for how much of a draw I will need to make on the retirement fund- 3, 4, 5%? Maybe if someone can point me to a rough guide of living expenses. I really am out of touch with cost of living.

I don't know what numbers would be relevant to give you.

Let's just say 50 years old with $1 million in savings, 50/50 taxable/tax-deferred. Frugal, modest lifestyle. Not into stuff. Likes long walks on the beach (or in the park or in the mountains) and romantic hot dog barbecues.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2018, 11:48:32 AM by GOFU »

Moustachienne

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Re: So how much does it really cost to live early retired?
« Reply #8 on: February 08, 2018, 11:58:05 AM »
Here's a good 2014 article estimating the cost of a typical middle class Canadian retirement. 
http://www.moneysense.ca/save/retirement/how-much-money-you-need-to-retire/

Many Mustachians would spend less but it gives you a benchmark. Canadians need to worry less about healthcare costs/insurance but aren't completely scot free for dental/optical/physio/pharma costs.   (I think US Social Security pays more than Canadian CPP/OAS but you would have to figure out your exact numbers. Of interest if you are close to SS age and that would be a factor in income.  Doesn't affect expenses.)

The AUS cost estimates are in the same ballpark:
https://www.superannuation.asn.au/resources/retirement-standard

Of course, optimizing your spending will require much less income.  I would bet that $40-45K US/yr plus paid off house (plus healthcare insurance for Americans) would be very comfortable for most people.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2018, 12:01:19 PM by Moustachienne »

spartana

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Re: So how much does it really cost to live early retired?
« Reply #9 on: February 08, 2018, 04:19:24 PM »
Like others said its impossible to compare with others unless you are in the same situation. Some who retired early in my situation -  single, no kids, debt free, paid off house with low taxes, very low expenses, free/low cost hobbies and activities, free medical - can live on a very small amount of $$'s. Someone else in a different situation might need 10xs the amount I do in FIRE. Someone else might need much less (although when I first FIREd my barebones expenses was about $500/month). I would do a case study or add some personal details here to help. Not only your situation but your desires too. Beyond my barebones I spent more for things like travel, hobbies, entertainment and occasional car or house repairs. It was still a low number and wasnt generally a "need" but a "want" so could reduce it if I had to.
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Mr. Green

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Re: So how much does it really cost to live early retired?
« Reply #10 on: February 09, 2018, 07:03:46 AM »
We're living on $36,000 a year right now, though my wife is still working. I do not work. 10k is rent paid to the couple we live with ($825 a month). Healthcare is 6k through my wife's employer, and this will be significantly cheaper when she quits. We can get a nice broad network silver ACA plan for $225 a month. If we decide not to travel extensively, healthcare premiums drop to less than $100 a month for a limited network plan. No mortgage (our house is rented), no car loans. Keeps life pretty cheap to live.
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des999

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Re: So how much does it really cost to live early retired?
« Reply #11 on: February 09, 2018, 07:59:56 AM »
I've often wondered the same thing, but there are so many factors that may not make it helpful.  I'll share regardless.

we spend about 55k / year for me, wife, and a 7 year old.  we live in midwest, fairly low cost of living, although we do live in a lake community, it's out in the country.  Houses range from 750k to 75k.

That will come down some in retirement, also the last 3 years (where that number came from) we have done a lot of work around the house.  Included in that number, we spend 7-10k per year travelling.  There is fat to trim for sure.

My tentative plan is about 40k when we 'retire'.   And that is living pretty darn well, not a big sacrifice.

infromsea

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Re: So how much does it really cost to live early retired?
« Reply #12 on: February 09, 2018, 08:00:05 AM »
and romantic hot dog barbecues.

Is there any other type of hot dog barbecue? I assumed they were ALL romantic.      :)

------------------------------------------------------------------

My excel sheet says our average yearly spending will be 45K.

East Coast, Virginia.

That includes a 1,100 mortgage that we could pay off but nurse along keeping assets invested. Small ranch home, cheap electricity/water/etc. 

It also includes 1,000 a month in savings.

Kids are grown, one at home but not for too much longer, she works a part time job to pay for many of the "oh shit" things that kids need money for. Her college fund is fully funded if she decides to go.

So, we paid off the mortgage and stopped the savings, we'd live on 21K. That's with a good internet plan, netflix, charity donations, AAA baseball games, drive to vacations, things of that nature. I'd say we live a very comfortable lifestyle that many would consider sparse, others would consider ostentatious (the extreme frugal types).

We controlled the three most important variables (home and where it's located, car spending, and misc/food spending) to ensure we'd be set up for success. The one monkey wrench here, as others stated, is that our healthcare is cheap/excellent (retired mil health care) so it doesn't affect our COL much.

I hope that helps, although comparing your situation to others is very difficult.

I'd ask you, what do you think is the MINIMUM you think you can live off of? Are you comfortable at that level? It's been suggested that you spend a few months mimicking that situation to really see how you react. Then, make things super painful for a while, adjust your spending upwards just a smidgen to reduce pain (get those massages again?) and settle in.

Good luck to you!
« Last Edit: February 09, 2018, 08:03:43 AM by infromsea »

BTDretire

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Re: So how much does it really cost to live early retired?
« Reply #13 on: February 09, 2018, 11:01:37 AM »
What are you spending now?
What will change when you retire?
Will those changes save you money or cost you money?

mxt0133

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Re: So how much does it really cost to live early retired?
« Reply #14 on: February 09, 2018, 11:17:19 AM »
I understand. I guess I am a little disoriented because where live now can be done for about $800 a month for a couple with two young kids. I know that if I retire back to the US that is not going to be possible.

May I ask where you are now?  If I moved back to the developing country where I was born, I figure I still need $3k to attempt to maintain our current lifestyle.  I would love to know how your spending breaks down.

2Birds1Stone

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Re: So how much does it really cost to live early retired?
« Reply #15 on: February 09, 2018, 12:30:40 PM »
Expenses over the past 3 years have averaged $24k/yr for me. This is the level of spending I plan on using in FIRE. That allows for a very nice lifestyle after covering rent+utilities ($550 all in) $450 can easily cover rest of bills while $1k/month serves as fun money.

Between all of the low/no cost outdoor sports/hobbies we enjoy, travel hacking, and a generally active and nomadic lifestyle, I don't see us needing much more than that to enjoy a nice FI. I will be looking to go past that, to cover unforeseen changes to healthcare costs, larger purchases once we settle down (house maybe?).

I plan on doing this by doing some occasional stints of PT work, and a WR slightly below 4%, that ought to let the stache outgrow spending pretty significantly.
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GOFU

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Re: So how much does it really cost to live early retired?
« Reply #16 on: February 09, 2018, 01:08:51 PM »
OK, monthly expenses are as follows (some of these we don't incur every month but totals are broken into monthly amounts):

House (owned and paid for): $50
Groceries/diapers/kids milk:  $250
Electric bill: $45
Cell phone: $15
Gas, maintenance and insurance for motorcycle: $15
Medicine/dentist:  $20
Clothes: $5
Dining out: $50
Nanny/Housekeeper: $150
Gifts/donations: $100
Travel: $100
TOTAL: $800  There may be a few things here and there during the year, a birthday party or something, but that's about it.

Things we have but don't pay for: High speed internet at home, company car (& all associated expenses), Netflix & MLB.com (we piggy back on the subscriptions of family - don't tell anyone).

Things we don't have and therefore don't pay for: cable TV (don't need or want it), health insurance (thankfully we are all pretty healthy so far, except for typical baby and toddler illnesses)

This is out in the hinterlands of Bolivia. I know I could never live this cheaply in the USA. So pretty much everything is going to be more expensive should we return there. Just trying to gauge the landscape a little. THanks for all the responses.

« Last Edit: February 09, 2018, 01:53:34 PM by GOFU »

2Birds1Stone

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Re: So how much does it really cost to live early retired?
« Reply #17 on: February 09, 2018, 01:20:57 PM »
That is some badass spending!!

Makes me happy I could move to Bolivia and be FI on $1200/month.
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Cassie

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Re: So how much does it really cost to live early retired?
« Reply #18 on: February 09, 2018, 01:25:18 PM »
We live in a MCOL area.  We spend 62k/year plus a 10-14k travel budget.   However, we are in our mid 60's and healthcare has been a large expense.  We spend between 12-15k year on that. Also at this age we are not skimping on anything like we did when younger as we have had 3 friends die between 59-67.  When working we never spent that much $ on travel.  WE could spend a lot less if we needed too.

GOFU

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Re: So how much does it really cost to live early retired?
« Reply #19 on: February 09, 2018, 01:41:04 PM »
That is some badass spending!!

Makes me happy I could move to Bolivia and be FI on $1200/month.

Yeah, well, there are a lot of reasons why people aren't flocking here.

GuitarStv

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Re: So how much does it really cost to live early retired?
« Reply #20 on: February 09, 2018, 01:45:37 PM »
I'm mostly interested in the answer to this question from someone in his or her 80s - 90s.

Cassie

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Re: So how much does it really cost to live early retired?
« Reply #21 on: February 09, 2018, 02:55:48 PM »
By 80-90's people's spending decreased. I saw it with my Mom and grandparents. It gets to be a big hassle to travel even if you loved it before.   You generally aren't buying clothes or other things.

Mr. Green

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Re: So how much does it really cost to live early retired?
« Reply #22 on: February 09, 2018, 04:04:10 PM »
By 80-90's people's spending decreased. I saw it with my Mom and grandparents. It gets to be a big hassle to travel even if you loved it before.   You generally aren't buying clothes or other things.
Same with my grandparents. They were in the best shape of all their peers. Grandma died at 85. Grandpa is still going strong at 91. Travel started decreasing significantly in their mid-70s and by the early 80s it was almost non-existent. Before that they would go on bus trips, cruises, drive 10 hours to see their son's family, etc.
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GuitarStv

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Re: So how much does it really cost to live early retired?
« Reply #23 on: February 09, 2018, 04:57:35 PM »
By 80-90's people's spending decreased. I saw it with my Mom and grandparents. It gets to be a big hassle to travel even if you loved it before.   You generally aren't buying clothes or other things.

I've seen five sets of grandparents end up in homes with varying levels of care (from minor daily assistance with things to full blown always on call medical care).  The common denominator amoung all of them is that they spend significantly more than when they were in their 60s.  This is despite the reduced travel, and owning of fewer things.

Cassie

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Re: So how much does it really cost to live early retired?
« Reply #24 on: February 09, 2018, 05:21:28 PM »
Most of my family has stayed home until a few weeks before dying. My 2 grandma's spend about 6 months each in a home and one paid for her own care and one went on Medicaid and they were in the same home.  It really is a crap shoot how your not so golden years will turn out. My Mom kept my dad home with help from me and between us 3 kids my Mom lived alone with some help from us when she was battling cancer 3x's. Although none of us lived in town we were able to take a few weeks at a time off to help her when she needed it.  Now if someone needs round the clock care all bets are off. My 93 yo aunt still lives alone with no help needed.  She does pay for cleaners to come in and eats lean cuisine instead of cooking both of which she started a year ago.  Fortunately if she needs help down the road she has the $ to pay for it.

jim555

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Re: So how much does it really cost to live early retired?
« Reply #25 on: February 09, 2018, 07:27:56 PM »
$16K

AdrianC

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Re: So how much does it really cost to live early retired?
« Reply #26 on: February 10, 2018, 09:02:10 AM »
I'm mostly interested in the answer to this question from someone in his or her 80s - 90s.

88 year old widower father in law spends $2600/mo. He drives about $25K miles/year still. Doesn't like to stay home much. Eats out 2x per day.

This will go up to about $4,000/mo when he moves into a retirement community, which has to happen pretty soon. Then it will go up more when he moves into assisted living.

MrThatsDifferent

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Re: So how much does it really cost to live early retired?
« Reply #27 on: February 10, 2018, 01:53:35 PM »
To the OP: if youre moving back to the US and youre FIRE, Id imagine you can live anywhere you want. You get to choose the area and you can make it as affordable as you want. Outside of healthcare the US can be relatively cheap. With your assets, youre living off of $40k/yr, far more than MMM himself and he makes it work. Granted he does have a paid off house. You and your partner could also work part time jobs for some extra cash. Im telling you what you already know. Probably best if you research where exactly you want to end up and then build a budget off of that, that will let you know what you need.

happy

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Re: So how much does it really cost to live early retired?
« Reply #28 on: February 12, 2018, 03:01:46 AM »
Justin at Root of Good http://rootofgood.com spends 40k  for his family with 2or 3 kids, including quite a lot of travel for the whole family, and often seems to come in under this target. He puts quite lot of detail about his lifestyle and spending on his blog.
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PrinsKheldar

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Re: So how much does it really cost to live early retired?
« Reply #29 on: February 12, 2018, 05:29:03 AM »
That is some badass spending!!

Makes me happy I could move to Bolivia and be FI on $1200/month.

Yeah, well, there are a lot of reasons why people aren't flocking here.

It doesn't need to be "Bolivia" for that. Me and my GF are living happily on less than that; about $1k/month...give or take a few bucks depending on traveling expenses.  We are not FIRE yet but this just happens to be the amount what it takes for us to live the life we enjoy. However we do endure tons of snow and then there is the occational wolves and bears lurking around the "city core"...

And to show it's not waaay to extreme of a place to live... Lets just say the wolves also can stay connected through free outdoor wi-fi while roaming the city streets in the dark.. ;-)

2Birds1Stone

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Re: So how much does it really cost to live early retired?
« Reply #30 on: February 12, 2018, 05:47:32 AM »
That is some badass spending!!

Makes me happy I could move to Bolivia and be FI on $1200/month.

Yeah, well, there are a lot of reasons why people aren't flocking here.

It doesn't need to be "Bolivia" for that. Me and my GF are living happily on less than that; about $1k/month...give or take a few bucks depending on traveling expenses.  We are not FIRE yet but this just happens to be the amount what it takes for us to live the life we enjoy. However we do endure tons of snow and then there is the occational wolves and bears lurking around the "city core"...

And to show it's not waaay to extreme of a place to live... Lets just say the wolves also can stay connected through free outdoor wi-fi while roaming the city streets in the dark.. ;-)

Where are you located?
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PrinsKheldar

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Re: So how much does it really cost to live early retired?
« Reply #31 on: February 12, 2018, 06:46:02 AM »
That is some badass spending!!

Makes me happy I could move to Bolivia and be FI on $1200/month.

Yeah, well, there are a lot of reasons why people aren't flocking here.

It doesn't need to be "Bolivia" for that. Me and my GF are living happily on less than that; about $1k/month...give or take a few bucks depending on traveling expenses.  We are not FIRE yet but this just happens to be the amount what it takes for us to live the life we enjoy. However we do endure tons of snow and then there is the occational wolves and bears lurking around the "city core"...

And to show it's not waaay to extreme of a place to live... Lets just say the wolves also can stay connected through free outdoor wi-fi while roaming the city streets in the dark.. ;-)

Where are you located?

...North of the wall.
;)
« Last Edit: February 12, 2018, 06:59:50 AM by PrinsKheldar »

AdrianC

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Re: So how much does it really cost to live early retired?
« Reply #32 on: February 12, 2018, 08:50:54 AM »
Justin at Root of Good http://rootofgood.com spends 40k  for his family with 2or 3 kids, including quite a lot of travel for the whole family, and often seems to come in under this target. He puts quite lot of detail about his lifestyle and spending on his blog.

From the blog:
"Our 2018 ACA plan is about $60 per month more expensive than our $16 per month plan from 2017.  It offers nearly identical coverage as in 2017 except the deductible increased from $100 to $125 and the specialist office visits are slightly more expensive."

$125 deductible? Where do they live?

We have a $7,250 individual/$14,500 family deductible. We hit individual max out of pocket last year. Hard to keep spending down to $40K when healthcare costs $25K.

Highbeam

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Re: So how much does it really cost to live early retired?
« Reply #33 on: February 12, 2018, 09:36:09 AM »
Just about every FIRE blogger that has retired seems to post their annual or even monthly expenditures and situation with enough detail for comparison. Your question is very reasonable and answerable if you consider that the answers will all be from other people with specific conditions that may not apply to you.

Mr. Green

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Re: So how much does it really cost to live early retired?
« Reply #34 on: February 12, 2018, 09:38:38 AM »
Justin at Root of Good http://rootofgood.com spends 40k  for his family with 2or 3 kids, including quite a lot of travel for the whole family, and often seems to come in under this target. He puts quite lot of detail about his lifestyle and spending on his blog.

From the blog:
"Our 2018 ACA plan is about $60 per month more expensive than our $16 per month plan from 2017.  It offers nearly identical coverage as in 2017 except the deductible increased from $100 to $125 and the specialist office visits are slightly more expensive."

$125 deductible? Where do they live?

We have a $7,250 individual/$14,500 family deductible. We hit individual max out of pocket last year. Hard to keep spending down to $40K when healthcare costs $25K.
Raleigh, North Carolina. They are seeing the benefits of the Cost Sharing Subsidy portion of the ACA. Their income is low enough for a family of 5 that the ACA requires insurers to subsidize the yearly deductible, as well as the premiums.
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GOFU

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Re: So how much does it really cost to live early retired?
« Reply #35 on: February 12, 2018, 01:35:07 PM »
Justin at Root of Good http://rootofgood.com spends 40k  for his family with 2or 3 kids, including quite a lot of travel for the whole family, and often seems to come in under this target. He puts quite lot of detail about his lifestyle and spending on his blog.
The Root of Good guy seems about as close to my situation as I have found. Thanks for the link.

AdrianC

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Re: So how much does it really cost to live early retired?
« Reply #36 on: February 12, 2018, 05:41:45 PM »
Raleigh, North Carolina. They are seeing the benefits of the Cost Sharing Subsidy portion of the ACA. Their income is low enough for a family of 5 that the ACA requires insurers to subsidize the yearly deductible, as well as the premiums.

Yes, that's right. Thanks. I had forgotten about cost sharing subsidies.

So, to the OP, yes you can follow their example, but bear in mind their $40K spending is allowable because their healthcare is relatively very cheap due to subsidies. Should those subsidies go away, they could be looking at another $20K or more for healthcare.

GOFU

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Re: So how much does it really cost to live early retired?
« Reply #37 on: February 12, 2018, 07:15:02 PM »
"...they could be looking at another $20K or more for healthcare."

And that's not even care, that's just to insure against the possibility of needing care. Damnation, that makes it almost prohibitively expensive to move back to the US.

dougules

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Re: So how much does it really cost to live early retired?
« Reply #38 on: February 13, 2018, 11:06:44 AM »
That is some badass spending!!

Makes me happy I could move to Bolivia and be FI on $1200/month.

Yeah, well, there are a lot of reasons why people aren't flocking here.

I'm curious if you'd be willing to divulge the top ones.  Are they specific to Bolivia or more Latin America in general?  I've though about Mexico. 

RedmondStash

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Re: So how much does it really cost to live early retired?
« Reply #39 on: February 13, 2018, 12:15:26 PM »
Spouse & I live on about $55k/yr when one of us is working and has employer-sponsored healthcare. I'm adding about $15k/yr to that for FIRE healthcare, and the amount could increase much faster than a 3% inflation rate; double-digit annual increases are not unheard-of for health insurance premiums.

We own our home but have a mortgage; we'll probably pay it off in the next year and a half, which will decrease our annual costs by about $9k/yr.

So for us, right now, FIRE costs would probably be about $70-75k/hr in a HCOL area, in the U.S. But given uncertainties around healthcare costs, that could increase quite a bit over the next few years.

We are frugal-ish, but not as gung-ho as some. We like our toys and comforts, but we don't care about keeping up with the Joneses. Our philosophy is to spend money carefully and consciously, and to save when there is no good reason to spend. I'm sure plenty of people could live in our area for much less.

ol1970

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Re: So how much does it really cost to live early retired?
« Reply #40 on: February 13, 2018, 01:07:25 PM »
So of course the answer depends on a lot of variables, but 3+ years in I've found that I spend about $120k/year.  Admittedly I think it is a pretty extravagant lifestyle, but it is conservative considering my overall situation.  I really wouldn't be much happier spending any more, already spend about 3 months out of the year traveling around the world, but I could easily see being just as happy spending much less (I'd say $75k) would be my personal floor without lifestyle starting to be affected.  Of course if the world goes to hell in a hand basket I could be happy on $30k a year too.  One thing is for certain though, I'm glad I'm not waiting around for something bad to happen or being worried about burn rates...get busy living! 

GOFU

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Re: So how much does it really cost to live early retired?
« Reply #41 on: February 13, 2018, 01:58:31 PM »
I'm curious if you'd be willing to divulge the top ones.  Are they specific to Bolivia or more Latin America in general?  I've though about Mexico.


Mr. Money Mustache wrote a piece about trust and how important it is in attaining wealth. Bolivia does not enjoy that economic and cultural luxury. And neither does Mexico. Americans and Canadians should realize how good they have it and should respect the reasons why it is worth preserving.

dougules

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Re: So how much does it really cost to live early retired?
« Reply #42 on: February 14, 2018, 11:14:52 AM »
I'm curious if you'd be willing to divulge the top ones.  Are they specific to Bolivia or more Latin America in general?  I've though about Mexico.


Mr. Money Mustache wrote a piece about trust and how important it is in attaining wealth. Bolivia does not enjoy that economic and cultural luxury. And neither does Mexico. Americans and Canadians should realize how good they have it and should respect the reasons why it is worth preserving.

I actually had a cab driver in Ecuador ask me why the US was so much richer than Ecuador.  I thought about it a little and told him a vaguer version of exactly that.   After having thought about the question and reading more about it, I think I really agree that trust is the reason some countries are poor and some are rich.  Ecuador is on the dollar because nobody could trust the Sucre.  It's also interesting that the big fences Ecuadorians have around their houses are probably a representation of what's keeping them poor. 

I'm curious, though, in what ways you've seen that to affect the average FI expat.

« Last Edit: February 14, 2018, 11:18:04 AM by dougules »

Mrs. Rocker

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Re: So how much does it really cost to live early retired?
« Reply #43 on: February 14, 2018, 05:58:31 PM »
We live on less than 24K a year while living a nomadic life. We don't restrict spending but find that most of the activities we enjoy are free or low cost. We post detailed spending monthly on our blog Off Our Rocker RV. See link below. We have no debt so that does enter into the equation. Prior to FIRE we anticipated that our expenses would be higher but that doesn't seem to be the case.
Living and loving our crazy RV life. www.offourrockerrv.com

GOFU

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Re: So how much does it really cost to live early retired?
« Reply #44 on: February 14, 2018, 07:38:17 PM »
I'm curious if you'd be willing to divulge the top ones.  Are they specific to Bolivia or more Latin America in general?  I've though about Mexico.


Mr. Money Mustache wrote a piece about trust and how important it is in attaining wealth. Bolivia does not enjoy that economic and cultural luxury. And neither does Mexico. Americans and Canadians should realize how good they have it and should respect the reasons why it is worth preserving.

I actually had a cab driver in Ecuador ask me why the US was so much richer than Ecuador.  I thought about it a little and told him a vaguer version of exactly that.   After having thought about the question and reading more about it, I think I really agree that trust is the reason some countries are poor and some are rich.  Ecuador is on the dollar because nobody could trust the Sucre.  It's also interesting that the big fences Ecuadorians have around their houses are probably a representation of what's keeping them poor. 

I'm curious, though, in what ways you've seen that to affect the average FI expat.
I can't say I have any significant experience with FI ex pats. I've seen a lot of backpackers and grungy hippies come through. Who knows, maybe they're all millionaires in disguise. Someone who is FI could live above all the lack of trust issues in Bolivia or anywhere else if they are just hanging out and getting drunk with no need to do business or earn a living. For an FI person who is doing the long slow travel thing, Bolivia has some amusing things to keep you busy for a couple of weeks or so, and it is inexpensive. After that, though, there are far nicer places, with far nicer people, to pass the time.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2018, 05:28:25 AM by GOFU »

pecunia

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Re: So how much does it really cost to live early retired?
« Reply #45 on: February 14, 2018, 08:29:37 PM »
I'm over 60 so most people reading this wouldn't consider me an early retiree, but I still share the trepidation in letting it go.  The enthusiasm of all the folks on this forum is alleviating this trepidation.

Here's another little story that helps push me along.  Last Summer I was down by the lake watching the sunset when this old man sauntered up beside me.  We began to talk.  He was about 77.  Back at what you folks would consider the dawn of computer times he worked as a programmer on mainframes.  The company he worked for was sold and he got some of the money.  It wasn't a huge fortune, but was enough to let him retire in his fifties.

He and his wife have traveled the world.  He has had many years to do what he and his wife wanted to.

The last statement he made to me with a smile was, "The money still hasn't run out."

I don't think he would have been as happy doing COBOL programming with mainframes.  Sometimes you just gotta go for it.  Life is too short not to.  Sometime, this year,.......yeh.


happy

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Re: So how much does it really cost to live early retired?
« Reply #46 on: February 15, 2018, 04:19:11 AM »
If its any help deciding: today one of my work colleagues aged 62 died after collapsing with a big stroke yesterday. Previously well.
Journalling at Happy Aussie Downshifter

SailormanDan

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Re: So how much does it really cost to live early retired?
« Reply #47 on: February 15, 2018, 09:56:07 AM »
Just about every FIRE blogger that has retired seems to post their annual or even monthly expenditures and situation with enough detail for comparison. Your question is very reasonable and answerable if you consider that the answers will all be from other people with specific conditions that may not apply to you.

Very true!

I live full-time on a boat in the Caribbean.  Guessing my specific expenses pertain to about 1% of the crowd here.  That said our annual expenses are about $40k for two adults.  I was way more concerned, and frugal, the first few years after FIRE as that was the most nerve wracking did I get my stats right???  Yes, and actually I erred on the side of caution and could have retired even earlier but that allows me a bit more freedom on budgeting today so all is good.

Also going to guess that if I moved back to land-based dwelling Id probably end up with approximately same expenses anyway just different categories.
Living and loving our crazy floating life: www.facebook.com/champagnemoment/

Livingthedream55

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Re: So how much does it really cost to live early retired?
« Reply #48 on: February 15, 2018, 01:54:31 PM »
If its any help deciding: today one of my work colleagues aged 62 died after collapsing with a big stroke yesterday. Previously well.

: 0 (

Puts it all in perspective, doesn't it?



dougules

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Re: So how much does it really cost to live early retired?
« Reply #49 on: February 15, 2018, 10:25:56 PM »
If its any help deciding: today one of my work colleagues aged 62 died after collapsing with a big stroke yesterday. Previously well.

: 0 (

Puts it all in perspective, doesn't it?

Yeah, even if you live to 92+ like my grandmother in law, we don't have a lot of time.