Author Topic: Sell everything and become a Permanent Traveler?  (Read 17841 times)

CanuckExpat

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Re: Sell everything and become a Permanent Traveler?
« Reply #150 on: January 16, 2017, 08:49:35 PM »
I don't disagree with anything either of you are saying, about needing time to settle in a place and really explore it. I particularly feel that way to get to know a city.

Does it really matter whether you call it travel or not? It's just semantics.

Stay 3 - 5 days, stay 3 - 5 months, stay 3 - 5 years. Do what you need to do :)
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arebelspy

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Re: Sell everything and become a Permanent Traveler?
« Reply #151 on: January 16, 2017, 09:42:43 PM »
I don't disagree with anything either of you are saying, about needing time to settle in a place and really explore it. I particularly feel that way to get to know a city.

Does it really matter whether you call it travel or not? It's just semantics.

Stay 3 - 5 days, stay 3 - 5 months, stay 3 - 5 years. Do what you need to do :)
+1.

And I'll add: Don't say that others choosing to do it differently are doing it wrong, or that their way is bad because X, Y, and Z.
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Re: Sell everything and become a Permanent Traveler?
« Reply #152 on: January 17, 2017, 12:25:46 PM »
I don't disagree with anything either of you are saying, about needing time to settle in a place and really explore it. I particularly feel that way to get to know a city.

Does it really matter whether you call it travel or not? It's just semantics.

Stay 3 - 5 days, stay 3 - 5 months, stay 3 - 5 years. Do what you need to do :)
+1.

And I'll add: Don't say that others choosing to do it differently are doing it wrong, or that their way is bad because X, Y, and Z.

Neither JLee nor I said anyone was wrong. And neither of our comments were a matter of semantics.

We were both merely commenting that after living abroad we (not you and not the OP) no longer envisaged that a life of permanent travel was what we (not you) now aspired to.

Absolutely each to ones own! Walk your own walk.

I already acknowledged that my needing to belong was bound to be more than others felt. I am sure there are plenty that feel that as long as they are with their one SO they have no need to maintain any regular face to face contact with others, particularly when maintaining relationships electronically is pretty effective.

spartana

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Re: Sell everything and become a Permanent Traveler?
« Reply #153 on: January 17, 2017, 09:22:46 PM »
I don't disagree with anything either of you are saying, about needing time to settle in a place and really explore it. I particularly feel that way to get to know a city.

Does it really matter whether you call it travel or not? It's just semantics.

Stay 3 - 5 days, stay 3 - 5 months, stay 3 - 5 years. Do what you need to do :)
+1.

And I'll add: Don't say that others choosing to do it differently are doing it wrong, or that their way is bad because X, Y, and Z.

Neither JLee nor I said anyone was wrong. And neither of our comments were a matter of semantics.

We were both merely commenting that after living abroad we (not you and not the OP) no longer envisaged that a life of permanent travel was what we (not you) now aspired to.

Absolutely each to ones own! Walk your own walk.

I already acknowledged that my needing to belong was bound to be more than others felt. I am sure there are plenty that feel that as long as they are with their one SO they have no need to maintain any regular face to face contact with others, particularly when maintaining relationships electronically is pretty effective.
I don't think Rebs comment was aimed at you or JLee but at Action Jackson. His/her comments came across that everyone would have the same experience and reactions to long term travel as they did where as you and JLees comment were more about your personal experiences.

For myself,  I believe you can accomplish just as much altruistic, family/raising g kids, spiritual, emotional, hedonism and adventure growth while travelling perpetually as you can while living a long term rooted life. Whether you are in constant travel motion (something I hate personally) or staying  longer term for a few weeks or a few months or a few years,  doesn't matter. If you find you don't like the life it can be an easy transition back to a rooted life - especially if already FI. I to agree with Action Jackson that if you can try it before giving up everything first it will help you decide if that's the lifestyle for you. I tried it (homeless backpacker style staying in hostels with some longer term rentals in different countries) for a couple of years pre-FIRE and loved it (plus 12 moves while in the military before that) so can.see myself doing that again soon.
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actionjackson

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Re: Sell everything and become a Permanent Traveler?
« Reply #154 on: January 17, 2017, 11:00:51 PM »
I can't see where I insinuated everyone will have my experience.... my comments were pretty limited to my experience, and the experiences of people I've met on my travels.

limeandpepper

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Re: Sell everything and become a Permanent Traveler?
« Reply #155 on: January 17, 2017, 11:16:44 PM »
I can't see where I insinuated everyone will have my experience.... my comments were pretty limited to my experience, and the experiences of people I've met on my travels.

This part does sound particularly disparaging to me, and doesn't come across as if you're just talking about yourself. Perhaps you were, in which case phrasing it differently would have conveyed your meaning more accurately, but as it stands:

When you wander, looking at things during casual travel, you tend to be just observing, rather than contributing to society in any meaningful way. I don't think that's a huge issue to do for a year or so, but to wander aimlessly for 5+ years, I mean, you're essentially just bumming around taking instagram photos.

Anyway, I personally think I am also more interested in a mix of a home base with longer-term travel, rather than the extreme ends of either spectrum, but I don't agree with stereotyping people who never travel, or those who continuously travel.

spartana

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Re: Sell everything and become a Permanent Traveler?
« Reply #156 on: January 17, 2017, 11:19:47 PM »
I can't see where I insinuated everyone will have my experience.... my comments were pretty limited to my experience, and the experiences of people I've met on my travels.
I think it was the use of the word "you're" and "you" rather than "I" that seemed to imply your were saying everyone would have the same experiences as you did. Like the quote Lime and Pepper mentioned amongst others

" Yeah, that pretty much hits the nail on the head. When you're constantly on the road - i.e. sleeping in a new place every 3-5 days, it get's tiring, you get pushed down Maslows hierarchy of needs, your day becomes consumed by things like, where will you sleep, where will you eat, where will you buy food etc. etc.

Your diet is going to fall by the wayside, it's really difficult to eat healthy while you're on the road."

Many of us have had yotally different experiences on all fronts. But sorry if I misinterpreted what you were saying.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2017, 11:32:37 PM by spartana »
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spartana

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Re: Sell everything and become a Permanent Traveler?
« Reply #157 on: January 18, 2017, 08:16:07 AM »
Also, while I don't have kids myself, I think raising a child(ren) while travelling would be a fantastic educational opportunity. Living in and learning new cultures and languages in multiple countries,  seeing various parts of the world rather than reading about them, attending international schools possibly and gaining a larger perspective of worldwide issues, and being able to spend time with parents and sibs rather than everyone running hither and fro in daily life while the kids have their noses stuck in front of screens and their butts planted on the couch. I envy the current lives of kids like Ababyspy (world travelling daughter of Arebelspy) and the Canuck expat kids who's educational opportunities and lives will be much fuller for their PT experiences IMHO.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2017, 08:19:50 AM by spartana »
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actionjackson

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Re: Sell everything and become a Permanent Traveler?
« Reply #158 on: January 18, 2017, 10:21:43 AM »

This part does sound particularly disparaging to me, and doesn't come across as if you're just talking about yourself. Perhaps you were, in which case phrasing it differently would have conveyed your meaning more accurately, but as it stands:

Anyway, I personally think I am also more interested in a mix of a home base with longer-term travel, rather than the extreme ends of either spectrum, but I don't agree with stereotyping people who never travel, or those who continuously travel.

Gotcha. That was a response to Arebelspys question, and more of a hypothetical musing based on my experience, if you did x, then y. It could have been worded better to convey my meaning, but I think it needs to be read in context with my original comment where I was speaking in the 1st;

"When I travel again I'll spend more time in a single country. I want to eventually speak fluent Spanish, and so I see that as a potential goal of long term, and worthy goal of travel in Spanish speaking countries. The other thing I might consider would be a goal of circumnavigating the world by motorbike - not just for the 'bragging rights' but also because forcing yourself into doing something like this puts you on a path with struggles that will lead to personal growth. They will also be more likely to lead to the development of strong bonds with your travel partner/s. Aimless wandering where you just go wherever is comfortable, and take the travel path of least resistance - to me, now, after my past experience, would be pretty fruitless and uninspiring."

Many of us have had yotally different experiences on all fronts. But sorry if I misinterpreted what you were saying.

This is my experience, and the experience of others who I have met in person, and through overland travel forums like Horizons Unlimited and Advrider. If you go back to page one, others who have done long term travel make similar observations to my own.

StetsTerhune - "For example, costs: the novelty of travel makes it easier to stay cheaper, crappier places, but there's a limit to that, I'm not a 23 year old backpacker (anymore), and long term super cheap is not sustainable. "

FiFoFum - "Most of what is driving you seems more geared toward expat living in a lower cost of living area, not a real desire to travel or be nomadic.

Cons for nomadic living -

Culture shock
Loneliness
Instability from always having to be in "planning" mode or thinking of the next step/place
Limitations in where you actually can go to based on visa/residency rules (there are good places to land, but there are entire countries and regions that are not doable indefinitely)
Hard to build meaningful friendships or relationships
Hedonic adaptation in travel

There are easily dozens of blogs of people doing this (and additionally there are forums/posters devoted to various types of nomadic living). Start searching and reading. See what people like, see what they don't, see why they choose to STOP living nomadic lives and at what stage. Some people feel like 6 months is "enough," some at 6 years. Some keep going and couldn't imagine any other way of being.

Then start somewhere knowing that it may or may not be what you want to do long term."


I haven't seen any other posts in this thread that starkly counter these observations, but I'm more than open to hearing them.

actionjackson

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Re: Sell everything and become a Permanent Traveler?
« Reply #159 on: January 18, 2017, 10:42:10 AM »
Also, while I don't have kids myself, I think raising a child(ren) while travelling would be a fantastic educational opportunity. Living in and learning new cultures and languages in multiple countries,  seeing various parts of the world rather than reading about them, attending international schools possibly and gaining a larger perspective of worldwide issues, and being able to spend time with parents and sibs rather than everyone running hither and fro in daily life while the kids have their noses stuck in front of screens and their butts planted on the couch. I envy the current lives of kids like Ababyspy (world travelling daughter of Arebelspy) and the Canuck expat kids who's educational opportunities and lives will be much fuller for their PT experiences IMHO.

I definitely agree. I went and read arebelspys profile - it seems like he would be in a really good position to do that. My wifes parents took them out of school for a year when she was younger, and they did home exchanges in North America, living in Denver, and in Vancouver with trips around in between. Her mother is a teacher, and so she homeschooled them.

We don't have children, but we will have them at some stage over the coming years. We're hoping to be FIRE 6-8 years from now and would probably spend a year or two traveling again with our children, and home-school them. From discussing with others who have done it, they say it's easiest to move around with children in those years - 3-4 YO up to early teens - once they start getting into the teens, they have stronger minds about staying in the one place with friends and boy/girlfriends etc.

dougules

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Re: Sell everything and become a Permanent Traveler?
« Reply #160 on: January 18, 2017, 11:01:53 AM »
Many European countries will give citizenship and a passport if you can prove you are a descendant of a person who was a citizen of their country.  Ireland is probably the best and easiest.  Merely having an Irish passport doesn't make you liable for Irish taxes.  You can get it without ever stepping foot in Ireland.

Since Ireland is part of the EU it give unlimited right of abode in all EU member states.  So all you would have to do is pack your limo an pop from one country to another when the time is up.

This is a pretty great idea. Not that I'd like to live in any of the other countries I've visited, especially in the EU, but the option might be nice.

You have to be a pretty close descendent;

Citizenship through descent from Irish grandparents
If one of your grandparents is an Irish citizen who was born in Ireland, but neither of your parents was born in Ireland, you may become an Irish citizen. You will need to have your birth registered in the Foreign Births Register see below.

Other Irish ancestors
Unless at least one parent or an Irish-born grandparent was an Irish citizen at the time of your birth, you cannot claim Irish citizenship on the basis of extended previous ancestry (that is, ancestors other than your parents or grandparents). In addition, you cannot claim Irish citizenship on the basis that a relation such as a cousin, aunt or uncle was an Irish citizen if none of your parents or grandparents was an Irish citizen at the time of your birth.


I've got a British passport through my mother, but that will be pretty useless once they leave the EU.

With Italy it's as many generations back as you can document with a few caveats. 

actionjackson

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Re: Sell everything and become a Permanent Traveler?
« Reply #161 on: January 18, 2017, 11:38:17 AM »
"Transmission of citizenship through maternal lineage is possible only for persons born after January 1st 1948."

Ahhh! I have Italian ancestry on my grandmothers side, who was born <1948. Looks like I wouldn't qualify.

jim555

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Re: Sell everything and become a Permanent Traveler?
« Reply #162 on: January 18, 2017, 12:37:41 PM »
"Transmission of citizenship through maternal lineage is possible only for persons born after January 1st 1948."

Ahhh! I have Italian ancestry on my grandmothers side, who was born <1948. Looks like I wouldn't qualify.
Doesn't that mean the applicant born after 1948?
« Last Edit: January 18, 2017, 03:30:25 PM by jim555 »

actionjackson

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Re: Sell everything and become a Permanent Traveler?
« Reply #163 on: January 18, 2017, 01:17:40 PM »
Oh, maybe I need to do a bit more research. Thanks!

dougules

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Re: Sell everything and become a Permanent Traveler?
« Reply #164 on: January 19, 2017, 11:28:39 AM »
"Transmission of citizenship through maternal lineage is possible only for persons born after January 1st 1948."

Ahhh! I have Italian ancestry on my grandmothers side, who was born <1948. Looks like I wouldn't qualify.
Doesn't that mean the applicant born after 1948?

Yes, I mentioned caveats, and that's the biggest one. 

It means Italian citizenship wouldn't pass from mother to child before 1948.  Say your Mother's Mother's Father came from Italy (and was never naturalized), then your grandmother was an Italian citizen no matter when she was born because her father is Italian.  Your mother is a different story, though, since she is going off of her mother's citizenship.  If your mother was born in 1947, then she's not an Italian citizen and neither are you.  If she was born in 1949, then she is a citizen and therefore so are you.  You could even have older aunts and uncles that aren't, but your parents and you are. 

The other big caveat is that your Italian ancestor can't have been naturalized before the next generation was born. 
« Last Edit: January 19, 2017, 11:36:34 AM by dougules »

actionjackson

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Re: Sell everything and become a Permanent Traveler?
« Reply #165 on: January 19, 2017, 12:21:25 PM »
Yeah, you know I'd go through the trouble of proving all of that only for Italy to pull out of the EU a year later anyway.

spartana

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Re: Sell everything and become a Permanent Traveler?
« Reply #166 on: January 19, 2017, 12:31:33 PM »

This part does sound particularly disparaging to me, and doesn't come across as if you're just talking about yourself. Perhaps you were, in which case phrasing it differently would have conveyed your meaning more accurately, but as it stands:

Anyway, I personally think I am also more interested in a mix of a home base with longer-term travel, rather than the extreme ends of either spectrum, but I don't agree with stereotyping people who never travel, or those who continuously travel.

Gotcha. That was a response to Arebelspys question, and more of a hypothetical musing based on my experience, if you did x, then y. It could have been worded better to convey my meaning, but I think it needs to be read in context with my original comment where I was speaking in the 1st;

"When I travel again I'll spend more time in a single country. I want to eventually speak fluent Spanish, and so I see that as a potential goal of long term, and worthy goal of travel in Spanish speaking countries. The other thing I might consider would be a goal of circumnavigating the world by motorbike - not just for the 'bragging rights' but also because forcing yourself into doing something like this puts you on a path with struggles that will lead to personal growth. They will also be more likely to lead to the development of strong bonds with your travel partner/s. Aimless wandering where you just go wherever is comfortable, and take the travel path of least resistance - to me, now, after my past experience, would be pretty fruitless and uninspiring."

Many of us have had yotally different experiences on all fronts. But sorry if I misinterpreted what you were saying.

This is my experience, and the experience of others who I have met in person, and through overland travel forums like Horizons Unlimited and Advrider. If you go back to page one, others who have done long term travel make similar observations to my own.

StetsTerhune - "For example, costs: the novelty of travel makes it easier to stay cheaper, crappier places, but there's a limit to that, I'm not a 23 year old backpacker (anymore), and long term super cheap is not sustainable. "

FiFoFum - "Most of what is driving you seems more geared toward expat living in a lower cost of living area, not a real desire to travel or be nomadic.

Cons for nomadic living -

Culture shock
Loneliness
Instability from always having to be in "planning" mode or thinking of the next step/place
Limitations in where you actually can go to based on visa/residency rules (there are good places to land, but there are entire countries and regions that are not doable indefinitely)
Hard to build meaningful friendships or relationships
Hedonic adaptation in travel

There are easily dozens of blogs of people doing this (and additionally there are forums/posters devoted to various types of nomadic living). Start searching and reading. See what people like, see what they don't, see why they choose to STOP living nomadic lives and at what stage. Some people feel like 6 months is "enough," some at 6 years. Some keep going and couldn't imagine any other way of being.

Then start somewhere knowing that it may or may not be what you want to do long term."


I haven't seen any other posts in this thread that starkly counter these observations, but I'm more than open to hearing them.
Again sorry if I misinterpreted your post.

I have met and know many other long term unrooted slow travellers (I don't like to use the word "permanent") including my own sister who did it for 12 years. Their experience seem to have been different than yours in that many found a great deal of happiness and joy in the lifestyle and never felt rushed to see and do "everything" asap and take a photo to put on FB (that sounds more like a typical 2 week vacation rather than long term full time travel).

 The whole premise for the people I know is to take things at your own pace, enjoy a place as long (or short) as you want, immerse yourself in the culture, the recreational and social activites, and scenery with no need to move on until you want. Most I know (including sis) stayed awhile in various places, worked some fun or interesting jobs to extend their travels (sis has a long list of cool jobs in interesting places), lived like the locals very frugally, stayed very fit and ate very healthily, and just meandered at their own pace.  A very pleasant experience compared to what you've experienced. But I do agree that it's not a life for everyone or that it may not be a permanent life forever. My sister only stopped because she met a guy, fell in love, got a job she really loved, lived in a place she really loved, got involved with a competitive sport at a high level so...stayed. She didn't stay because she tired of the travel life, and she plans to do it again as a FIREd person though.
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actionjackson

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Re: Sell everything and become a Permanent Traveler?
« Reply #167 on: January 19, 2017, 03:09:55 PM »
All good. Yeah, I think slow travel is a little different to what I was thinking about when I made those posts.

dougules

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Re: Sell everything and become a Permanent Traveler?
« Reply #168 on: January 19, 2017, 10:25:17 PM »
Yeah, you know I'd go through the trouble of proving all of that only for Italy to pull out of the EU a year later anyway.

Yeah probably, but Italy is interesting in and of itself.  And I don't know if there really is a huge threat of Italy pulling out of the EU.  The UK England never really went all in on the EU in the first place.

actionjackson

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Re: Sell everything and become a Permanent Traveler?
« Reply #169 on: January 19, 2017, 11:06:56 PM »
True, I could live in Italy. The UK on the other hand... :s

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Re: Sell everything and become a Permanent Traveler?
« Reply #170 on: January 19, 2017, 11:25:54 PM »
"Transmission of citizenship through maternal lineage is possible only for persons born after January 1st 1948."

Ahhh! I have Italian ancestry on my grandmothers side, who was born <1948. Looks like I wouldn't qualify.
Doesn't that mean the applicant born after 1948?

Yes, I mentioned caveats, and that's the biggest one. 

It means Italian citizenship wouldn't pass from mother to child before 1948.  Say your Mother's Mother's Father came from Italy (and was never naturalized), then your grandmother was an Italian citizen no matter when she was born because her father is Italian.  Your mother is a different story, though, since she is going off of her mother's citizenship.  If your mother was born in 1947, then she's not an Italian citizen and neither are you.  If she was born in 1949, then she is a citizen and therefore so are you.  You could even have older aunts and uncles that aren't, but your parents and you are. 

The other big caveat is that your Italian ancestor can't have been naturalized before the next generation was born.

What's their immigration policy on spouses/significant others? I could totally find me a partner who meets those critera, but wouldn't go through the trouble if it wouldn't help moi.
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Re: Sell everything and become a Permanent Traveler?
« Reply #171 on: January 20, 2017, 05:22:25 AM »
I understand and agree with many of the views here about how being a permanent, unrooted traveller can get a bit old after a while.  In 2013, I took a little over a year off to go to China.  I lived in a few different places around China for 3-5 months at a time, and did a variety of things - went to a language school for a bit, worked as an outdoor guide for a bit, did English tutoring for a bit, wrote news articles for an Asian-based website for a bit, and travelled around China and other parts of Asia for a bit.  I was 26, and it was fantastic - my Chinese improved drastically, I met some great people, I had some wonderful experiences, and I grew a lot as a person.  I think that going to China was one of the best decisions I ever made and don't regret it for a second. 

I hadn't planned to go back home (to NZ), but I hadn't planned to stay in China, either.  I was open to possibilities.  When I did come home after 15 months abroad, I was so ready to do so. I missed cooking my own meals - even when I was living in a city, I knew it wouldn't be for that long so I never invested in much cookware and could pretty much only cook the simplest of meals.  Living out of a backpack had gotten tiring - shortly after I returned to NZ, I purchased a soft toy/cushion thing and a large hairdryer and just relished the feeling of being able to buy things that were not essential but simply nice to have.  I had also gotten sick of putting a lot of time and emotional investment into friendships/relationships only to know I would have to say goodbye soon (I am not naturally extroverted, and towards the latter part of my time there I put much less effort into making new friends).  I gave up any hope of developing a serious long-term relationship.  I had seen all my friends making progress in their careers, getting engaged, buying houses, etc and felt like I'd been stuck in a limbo.  And I absolutely identify with what actionjackson said about doing something of more substance - for me, that was putting my hard-earned degree to use and developing my career.  My first few months at my new (government) job after I got back were great - I was learning tons, and was getting great feedback on my work.  I felt like I was making a useful contribution to society, and that people appreciated what I was doing.  In terms of doing something "of substance" - in my field of law, it's difficult if not impossible to climb the ladder and gain meaningful work experience if you're always hopping around all over the place.  There are some interesting internship-type opportunities but these are often unpaid or very poorly paid, so I wouldn't do more than one or two of them if I haven't FIRE'd yet.   

That being said, I'm looking forward to going abroad again in the not-too-distant future after I FIRE in about 4-5 years.  I'm now in a long-term serious relationship so hopefully that will ease some of the loneliness while abroad.  I've given my career a decent go, have some good work experience, and find my current job frustrating. The plan after FIRE is to go to Portugal for 6 months, Thailand for 6 months, and then maybe settle down in Portugal for a while and do small trips around Europe, with a trip further overseas once every year or 2.  Maybe after a few years in Portugal we'll decide to move elsewhere for a few years.  Maybe we'll stay put in Portugal.  Maybe we'll come back to NZ.  Who knows?  The world is such a large place, the possibilities are endless.  But I also understand the downsides to long-term travel, and realise that I'll probably want some roots somewhere eventually.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2017, 05:29:57 AM by Out of the Blue »

spartana

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Re: Sell everything and become a Permanent Traveler?
« Reply #172 on: January 20, 2017, 08:55:04 AM »
Out if the Blue - I do think it helps a lot to be able to stay in an apt in various places you visit while travelling rather than constantly living out ofba backpack. It gives you a more settled feeling then being in constant motion does but still allows you a central location to be able to travel locally. That doesn't have to be a year or even six month but a month or two in your own place can make travel sooooo much nicer IMHO. And its usually less expensive too! Because I have a dog who goes with me I don't travel over seas just in North America. But I've found staying in one place for a few weeks or longer (even if camping) so much more pleasant than constant moving. Since I'm FIREd I don't have a timeline but I currently own a home so feel the need to go back there more often then I want.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2017, 09:00:59 AM by spartana »
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dougules

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Re: Sell everything and become a Permanent Traveler?
« Reply #173 on: January 20, 2017, 10:47:16 AM »
True, I could live in Italy. The UK on the other hand... :s

Two words - British Food. 

actionjackson

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Re: Sell everything and become a Permanent Traveler?
« Reply #174 on: January 20, 2017, 11:00:55 AM »
True, I could live in Italy. The UK on the other hand... :s

Two words - British Food.

I can get a pie and mushy peas in Australia ;)

Seriously though, I've spent a fair bit of time in the UK and in Italy. Sure Italy does Italian well, but London as a global city obviously has amazing food. I'm just not a huge fan of the weather in the UK. Plus, I'm a rock climber and motorbike rider - Italy is awesome on those fronts.

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Re: Sell everything and become a Permanent Traveler?
« Reply #175 on: January 20, 2017, 11:20:43 AM »
The takeaway I'm getting from all of this is that becoming a permanent traveler could possibly be difficult and make you feel disconnected.  Being a permanent traveler doesn't have to be permanent, though, right?  If you start feeling tired and isolated you can stop at any time and go home, wherever you have decided that home is. 


"Transmission of citizenship through maternal lineage is possible only for persons born after January 1st 1948."

Ahhh! I have Italian ancestry on my grandmothers side, who was born <1948. Looks like I wouldn't qualify.
Doesn't that mean the applicant born after 1948?

Yes, I mentioned caveats, and that's the biggest one. 

It means Italian citizenship wouldn't pass from mother to child before 1948.  Say your Mother's Mother's Father came from Italy (and was never naturalized), then your grandmother was an Italian citizen no matter when she was born because her father is Italian.  Your mother is a different story, though, since she is going off of her mother's citizenship.  If your mother was born in 1947, then she's not an Italian citizen and neither are you.  If she was born in 1949, then she is a citizen and therefore so are you.  You could even have older aunts and uncles that aren't, but your parents and you are. 

The other big caveat is that your Italian ancestor can't have been naturalized before the next generation was born.

What's their immigration policy on spouses/significant others? I could totally find me a partner who meets those critera, but wouldn't go through the trouble if it wouldn't help moi.

Not sure, but it shouldn't be any different than if you met an Italian while traveling through Italy and then married him/her.  Are you going to start limiting your dating life to folks with last names like Gallo and Matessi now?


True, I could live in Italy. The UK on the other hand... :s

Two words - British Food.

I can get a pie and mushy peas in Australia ;)

Seriously though, I've spent a fair bit of time in the UK and in Italy. Sure Italy does Italian well, but London as a global city obviously has amazing food. I'm just not a huge fan of the weather in the UK. Plus, I'm a rock climber and motorbike rider - Italy is awesome on those fronts.

Mmmm, meat pies and mushy peas. 

Immigrants have been the salvation of food in the Anglosphere.  Britain literally conquered the world for better food.  Remember the spice islands? 

As much as I roll my eyes at food in the US, it's easy to take for granted that I can buy taro root, tortillas, papayas, mozzarella, fresh water chestnuts, Jordanian olives, Korean radishes, German mustard, and fresh curry leaves all within a bike ride of the house.  And I'm not even in that big a city. 


Eric

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Re: Sell everything and become a Permanent Traveler?
« Reply #176 on: January 20, 2017, 11:38:04 AM »
I hadn't planned to go back home (to NZ), but I hadn't planned to stay in China, either.  I was open to possibilities.  When I did come home after 15 months abroad, I was so ready to do so. I missed cooking my own meals - even when I was living in a city, I knew it wouldn't be for that long so I never invested in much cookware and could pretty much only cook the simplest of meals.  Living out of a backpack had gotten tiring - shortly after I returned to NZ, I purchased a soft toy/cushion thing and a large hairdryer and just relished the feeling of being able to buy things that were not essential but simply nice to have. 

I think you've highlighted the huge difference between traveling for a long time when you're 26 and poor, and traveling long term after you've FIRE'd.  All of the problems you've mentioned above are easily solved with some extra money.  Rent a place with a kitchen.  Buy that cookware that's missing.  Buy that hairdryer.  You can even leave it behind when you move, and then re-purchase as needed at the next stop.  Then you get the best of both worlds.
"Compound interest is the most powerful force in the universe."  -- Einstein

spartana

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Re: Sell everything and become a Permanent Traveler?
« Reply #177 on: January 20, 2017, 12:08:08 PM »
I hadn't planned to go back home (to NZ), but I hadn't planned to stay in China, either.  I was open to possibilities.  When I did come home after 15 months abroad, I was so ready to do so. I missed cooking my own meals - even when I was living in a city, I knew it wouldn't be for that long so I never invested in much cookware and could pretty much only cook the simplest of meals.  Living out of a backpack had gotten tiring - shortly after I returned to NZ, I purchased a soft toy/cushion thing and a large hairdryer and just relished the feeling of being able to buy things that were not essential but simply nice to have. 

I think you've highlighted the huge difference between traveling for a long time when you're 26 and poor, and traveling long term after you've FIRE'd.  All of the problems you've mentioned above are easily solved with some extra money.  Rent a place with a kitchen.  Buy that cookware that's missing.  Buy that hairdryer.  You can even leave it behind when you move, and then re-purchase as needed at the next stop.  Then you get the best of both worlds.
You can have all that as a poor vagabond too. Just rent a shared space or room or tiny apt. In some places (even expensive countries) you can rent a room in a nice apt for a few hundred bucks a month and have all those luxuries. Cheaper than hostels and you can move on easily after a month or 2. When I did my 2 year trip I ended up doing apt shares for several months in several different countries MUCH cheaper than hostels or even paid campgrounds.  Or you can do like Arebelspy and housesit and live for free.
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Eric

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Re: Sell everything and become a Permanent Traveler?
« Reply #178 on: January 20, 2017, 12:14:40 PM »
I hadn't planned to go back home (to NZ), but I hadn't planned to stay in China, either.  I was open to possibilities.  When I did come home after 15 months abroad, I was so ready to do so. I missed cooking my own meals - even when I was living in a city, I knew it wouldn't be for that long so I never invested in much cookware and could pretty much only cook the simplest of meals.  Living out of a backpack had gotten tiring - shortly after I returned to NZ, I purchased a soft toy/cushion thing and a large hairdryer and just relished the feeling of being able to buy things that were not essential but simply nice to have. 

I think you've highlighted the huge difference between traveling for a long time when you're 26 and poor, and traveling long term after you've FIRE'd.  All of the problems you've mentioned above are easily solved with some extra money.  Rent a place with a kitchen.  Buy that cookware that's missing.  Buy that hairdryer.  You can even leave it behind when you move, and then re-purchase as needed at the next stop.  Then you get the best of both worlds.
You can have all that as a poor vagabond too. Just rent a shared space or room or tiny apt. In some places (even expensive countries) you can rent a room in a nice apt for a few hundred bucks a month and have all those luxuries. Cheaper than hostels and you can move on easily after a month or 2. When I did my 2 year trip I ended up doing apt shares for several months in several different countries MUCH cheaper than hostels or even paid campgrounds.  Or you can do like Arebelspy and housesit and live for free.

Oh yeah, you definitely have options.  But what's a frying pan cost?  $10?  Maybe $20?  If you're fretting over $20, you're doing it wrong.
"Compound interest is the most powerful force in the universe."  -- Einstein

dougules

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Re: Sell everything and become a Permanent Traveler?
« Reply #179 on: January 20, 2017, 12:25:29 PM »
I hadn't planned to go back home (to NZ), but I hadn't planned to stay in China, either.  I was open to possibilities.  When I did come home after 15 months abroad, I was so ready to do so. I missed cooking my own meals - even when I was living in a city, I knew it wouldn't be for that long so I never invested in much cookware and could pretty much only cook the simplest of meals.  Living out of a backpack had gotten tiring - shortly after I returned to NZ, I purchased a soft toy/cushion thing and a large hairdryer and just relished the feeling of being able to buy things that were not essential but simply nice to have. 

I think you've highlighted the huge difference between traveling for a long time when you're 26 and poor, and traveling long term after you've FIRE'd.  All of the problems you've mentioned above are easily solved with some extra money.  Rent a place with a kitchen.  Buy that cookware that's missing.  Buy that hairdryer.  You can even leave it behind when you move, and then re-purchase as needed at the next stop.  Then you get the best of both worlds.
You can have all that as a poor vagabond too. Just rent a shared space or room or tiny apt. In some places (even expensive countries) you can rent a room in a nice apt for a few hundred bucks a month and have all those luxuries. Cheaper than hostels and you can move on easily after a month or 2. When I did my 2 year trip I ended up doing apt shares for several months in several different countries MUCH cheaper than hostels or even paid campgrounds.  Or you can do like Arebelspy and housesit and live for free.

Oh yeah, you definitely have options.  But what's a frying pan cost?  $10?  Maybe $20?  If you're fretting over $20, you're doing it wrong.

You don't have to cook many times before basic cookware pays for itself, even in a LCOL country.  Eating out isn't free. 

actionjackson

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Re: Sell everything and become a Permanent Traveler?
« Reply #180 on: January 20, 2017, 12:47:29 PM »
I hadn't planned to go back home (to NZ), but I hadn't planned to stay in China, either.  I was open to possibilities.  When I did come home after 15 months abroad, I was so ready to do so. I missed cooking my own meals - even when I was living in a city, I knew it wouldn't be for that long so I never invested in much cookware and could pretty much only cook the simplest of meals.  Living out of a backpack had gotten tiring - shortly after I returned to NZ, I purchased a soft toy/cushion thing and a large hairdryer and just relished the feeling of being able to buy things that were not essential but simply nice to have. 

I think you've highlighted the huge difference between traveling for a long time when you're 26 and poor, and traveling long term after you've FIRE'd.  All of the problems you've mentioned above are easily solved with some extra money.  Rent a place with a kitchen.  Buy that cookware that's missing.  Buy that hairdryer.  You can even leave it behind when you move, and then re-purchase as needed at the next stop.  Then you get the best of both worlds.

Yeah, we're really getting into semantics now. When does it stop being 'travel' and just become moving to another country. If you live a year in 10 different countries over a decade, I don't know if I'd call that 'travel'.


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Re: Sell everything and become a Permanent Traveler?
« Reply #181 on: January 20, 2017, 01:12:00 PM »
I hadn't planned to go back home (to NZ), but I hadn't planned to stay in China, either.  I was open to possibilities.  When I did come home after 15 months abroad, I was so ready to do so. I missed cooking my own meals - even when I was living in a city, I knew it wouldn't be for that long so I never invested in much cookware and could pretty much only cook the simplest of meals.  Living out of a backpack had gotten tiring - shortly after I returned to NZ, I purchased a soft toy/cushion thing and a large hairdryer and just relished the feeling of being able to buy things that were not essential but simply nice to have. 

I think you've highlighted the huge difference between traveling for a long time when you're 26 and poor, and traveling long term after you've FIRE'd.  All of the problems you've mentioned above are easily solved with some extra money.  Rent a place with a kitchen.  Buy that cookware that's missing.  Buy that hairdryer.  You can even leave it behind when you move, and then re-purchase as needed at the next stop.  Then you get the best of both worlds.

Yeah, we're really getting into semantics now. When does it stop being 'travel' and just become moving to another country. If you live a year in 10 different countries over a decade, I don't know if I'd call that 'travel'.

I'm not talking about setting up an apartment for a year.  Even if you're staying somewhere for a week, you should be able to purchase any items you need or want and leave them behind if you so choose.
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actionjackson

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Re: Sell everything and become a Permanent Traveler?
« Reply #182 on: January 20, 2017, 01:32:39 PM »
Economies of scale improve over time due to lower rent on longer leases, efficiency in local purchasing in the area, and the amortization of once off moving and acquisition costs.

If you FIRE at a SWR that is equivalent to your expenses in a single location in your home country - you're not going to be able to afford to travel and move between locations every week. Sure, if you perhaps FIRE at a SWR of 2-2.5x your expenses, then moving around that much might be feasible with the higher income - otherwise you're just going to end up having to sacrifice lifestyle like the 26YO on a budget.

Eric

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Re: Sell everything and become a Permanent Traveler?
« Reply #183 on: January 20, 2017, 02:30:19 PM »
If you FIRE at a SWR that is equivalent to your expenses in a single location in your home country - you're not going to be able to afford to travel and move between locations every week. Sure, if you perhaps FIRE at a SWR of 2-2.5x your expenses, then moving around that much might be feasible with the higher income - otherwise you're just going to end up having to sacrifice lifestyle like the 26YO on a budget.

Why would you do that if you're planning to travel?  If that's how you would go about determining your expenses, then I'd re-think that plan.

All sorts of FIRE people plan for different spending levels when retired as opposed to working.  That's not a travel issue.  That's a life issue.  It shouldn't be that hard.

Here's how you'd do it for travel.  Determine your projected expenses while traveling and multiply that number by 25.
"Compound interest is the most powerful force in the universe."  -- Einstein

actionjackson

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Re: Sell everything and become a Permanent Traveler?
« Reply #184 on: January 20, 2017, 03:23:49 PM »
Agreed. My point is that the faster you travel, the more expensive it will be. It's like, pick two of the following;

Travel Fast
Travel Cheap
Be comfortable

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Re: Sell everything and become a Permanent Traveler?
« Reply #185 on: January 20, 2017, 03:31:51 PM »
I hadn't planned to go back home (to NZ), but I hadn't planned to stay in China, either.  I was open to possibilities.  When I did come home after 15 months abroad, I was so ready to do so. I missed cooking my own meals - even when I was living in a city, I knew it wouldn't be for that long so I never invested in much cookware and could pretty much only cook the simplest of meals.  Living out of a backpack had gotten tiring - shortly after I returned to NZ, I purchased a soft toy/cushion thing and a large hairdryer and just relished the feeling of being able to buy things that were not essential but simply nice to have. 

I think you've highlighted the huge difference between traveling for a long time when you're 26 and poor, and traveling long term after you've FIRE'd.  All of the problems you've mentioned above are easily solved with some extra money.  Rent a place with a kitchen.  Buy that cookware that's missing.  Buy that hairdryer.  You can even leave it behind when you move, and then re-purchase as needed at the next stop.  Then you get the best of both worlds.
You can have all that as a poor vagabond too. Just rent a shared space or room or tiny apt. In some places (even expensive countries) you can rent a room in a nice apt for a few hundred bucks a month and have all those luxuries. Cheaper than hostels and you can move on easily after a month or 2. When I did my 2 year trip I ended up doing apt shares for several months in several different countries MUCH cheaper than hostels or even paid campgrounds.  Or you can do like Arebelspy and housesit and live for free.

Any good websites to share, or pretty much just Airbnb?

spartana

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Re: Sell everything and become a Permanent Traveler?
« Reply #186 on: January 20, 2017, 04:02:34 PM »
Economies of scale improve over time due to lower rent on longer leases, efficiency in local purchasing in the area, and the amortization of once off moving and acquisition costs.

If you FIRE at a SWR that is equivalent to your expenses in a single location in your home country - you're not going to be able to afford to travel and move between locations every week. Sure, if you perhaps FIRE at a SWR of 2-2.5x your expenses, then moving around that much might be feasible with the higher income - otherwise you're just going to end up having to sacrifice lifestyle like the 26YO on a budget.
This doesn't have to be the case. In general you'll just be transferring your at home living expenses to your travel expenses once you give up your home, insurances, prop tax, mortgage or rent, car, utilities, entertainment,  and vacation expenses (and maybe even healthcare expenses). And in many cases those "at home" expenses may be much higher than your "permanent travel" expenses. You just stay within your budget whatever that is and travel in a way your FIRE budget allows. Obviously some people like me who have lower FIRE expense may chose to budget travel while others with higher expenses could be staying at the Ritz every night. Longer term slower travel and staying at hostels or camping or renting inexpensive shared apts for awhile allows for lower expenses than does motel hopping every night or constant moving.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2017, 04:04:36 PM by spartana »
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spartana

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Re: Sell everything and become a Permanent Traveler?
« Reply #187 on: January 20, 2017, 04:18:35 PM »
I hadn't planned to go back home (to NZ), but I hadn't planned to stay in China, either.  I was open to possibilities.  When I did come home after 15 months abroad, I was so ready to do so. I missed cooking my own meals - even when I was living in a city, I knew it wouldn't be for that long so I never invested in much cookware and could pretty much only cook the simplest of meals.  Living out of a backpack had gotten tiring - shortly after I returned to NZ, I purchased a soft toy/cushion thing and a large hairdryer and just relished the feeling of being able to buy things that were not essential but simply nice to have. 

I think you've highlighted the huge difference between traveling for a long time when you're 26 and poor, and traveling long term after you've FIRE'd.  All of the problems you've mentioned above are easily solved with some extra money.  Rent a place with a kitchen.  Buy that cookware that's missing.  Buy that hairdryer.  You can even leave it behind when you move, and then re-purchase as needed at the next stop.  Then you get the best of both worlds.
You can have all that as a poor vagabond too. Just rent a shared space or room or tiny apt. In some places (even expensive countries) you can rent a room in a nice apt for a few hundred bucks a month and have all those luxuries. Cheaper than hostels and you can move on easily after a month or 2. When I did my 2 year trip I ended up doing apt shares for several months in several different countries MUCH cheaper than hostels or even paid campgrounds.  Or you can do like Arebelspy and housesit and live for free.

Any good websites to share, or pretty much just Airbnb?
no sorry. I just travel in.North America now because I have a dog but I've gotten several off season.vacation rental places in.the US very cheaply when doing a monthly rental. I usually.just looked at local realtors/prop managers for best deals but you can find places thru Home away.com or VRBO.com but have to weed thru the much more expensive daily or weekly rates to find the lower monthly rates. Right now I have a 4 month 'ski lease" at a ski resort for the winter I'm sharing with 3 other people (one couple a single and me in a 3 bedroom chalet) who all work so they are only there on weekends and holidays so have the place to myself midweek. Costs us each about $500/ month fully furnished and equipped - even comes with a frying pan ;-).

ETA I generally car camp 9o% of the time now so rarely rent places anymore or stay at motels.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2017, 04:26:14 PM by spartana »
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arebelspy

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Re: Sell everything and become a Permanent Traveler?
« Reply #188 on: January 20, 2017, 04:46:37 PM »
Agreed. My point is that the faster you travel, the more expensive it will be. It's like, pick two of the following;

Travel Fast
Travel Cheap
Be comfortable

Right.  And we're saying skip the first one.  Slow travel is better anyways.

Then you get the cheap and comfortable, and enjoy yourself a lot more and really get to know a place.
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Re: Sell everything and become a Permanent Traveler?
« Reply #189 on: January 20, 2017, 04:54:52 PM »
I hadn't planned to go back home (to NZ), but I hadn't planned to stay in China, either.  I was open to possibilities.  When I did come home after 15 months abroad, I was so ready to do so. I missed cooking my own meals - even when I was living in a city, I knew it wouldn't be for that long so I never invested in much cookware and could pretty much only cook the simplest of meals.  Living out of a backpack had gotten tiring - shortly after I returned to NZ, I purchased a soft toy/cushion thing and a large hairdryer and just relished the feeling of being able to buy things that were not essential but simply nice to have. 

I think you've highlighted the huge difference between traveling for a long time when you're 26 and poor, and traveling long term after you've FIRE'd.  All of the problems you've mentioned above are easily solved with some extra money.  Rent a place with a kitchen.  Buy that cookware that's missing.  Buy that hairdryer.  You can even leave it behind when you move, and then re-purchase as needed at the next stop.  Then you get the best of both worlds.
You can have all that as a poor vagabond too. Just rent a shared space or room or tiny apt. In some places (even expensive countries) you can rent a room in a nice apt for a few hundred bucks a month and have all those luxuries. Cheaper than hostels and you can move on easily after a month or 2. When I did my 2 year trip I ended up doing apt shares for several months in several different countries MUCH cheaper than hostels or even paid campgrounds.  Or you can do like Arebelspy and housesit and live for free.

Oh yeah, you definitely have options.  But what's a frying pan cost?  $10?  Maybe $20?  If you're fretting over $20, you're doing it wrong.

You don't have to cook many times before basic cookware pays for itself, even in a LCOL country.  Eating out isn't free.

Like I said, I did cook some very basic meals when I was there.  But it was so cheap and easy to eat out in China, so I ate out a lot too.  I had a place with a pot or two and a frypan when I was living in Shanghai for about 3 months towards the end of my time there.  It was a crappy frypan, not nearly as good as the one I have now.  I could've bought a better one - I wasn't really poor at the time, but just living off savings and I didn't want to run them down too much.  I think what stopped me was the idea of having to throw it away afterwards rather than the cost - I really hate throwing things out.

It can also be a little difficult cooking in a country with pretty different foods than what you're used to - my cooking repertoire was a lot more limited when I was 26, and things that I was used to  (e.g. pasta, bread) were quite expensive in expat supermarkets.  I think it would be different now, as I enjoy cooking more and cook a lot more from scratch. 

But yes, I think there is a world of difference doing long-term travel when you're 26, single and relatively poor vs. long-term travel when you're comfortable and secure.   

Quote
My point is that the faster you travel, the more expensive it will be. It's like, pick two of the following;

Travel Fast
Travel Cheap
Be comfortable

Pretty much.  In my experience, if you stay somewhere for a month instead of a week, your housing costs drop significantly because many AirBnB places offer monthly discounts and you can maybe do some cooking with the stuff they already have in the kitchen.  If you stay somewhere 3-6 months instead of a month, your housing costs can drop a lot again because you can rent a place directly in the local market (with perhaps a premium for a short term lease), instead of AirBnB.  But then you might need to spend a bit of money furnishing it.     

My planned FIRE budget should comfortably allow for these moving costs every 3-6 months, but only in reasonably LCOL places. 

Out of the Blue

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Re: Sell everything and become a Permanent Traveler?
« Reply #190 on: January 20, 2017, 05:05:51 PM »
Economies of scale improve over time due to lower rent on longer leases, efficiency in local purchasing in the area, and the amortization of once off moving and acquisition costs.

If you FIRE at a SWR that is equivalent to your expenses in a single location in your home country - you're not going to be able to afford to travel and move between locations every week. Sure, if you perhaps FIRE at a SWR of 2-2.5x your expenses, then moving around that much might be feasible with the higher income - otherwise you're just going to end up having to sacrifice lifestyle like the 26YO on a budget.
This doesn't have to be the case. In general you'll just be transferring your at home living expenses to your travel expenses once you give up your home, insurances, prop tax, mortgage or rent, car, utilities, entertainment,  and vacation expenses (and maybe even healthcare expenses). And in many cases those "at home" expenses may be much higher than your "permanent travel" expenses. You just stay within your budget whatever that is and travel in a way your FIRE budget allows. Obviously some people like me who have lower FIRE expense may chose to budget travel while others with higher expenses could be staying at the Ritz every night. Longer term slower travel and staying at hostels or camping or renting inexpensive shared apts for awhile allows for lower expenses than does motel hopping every night or constant moving.

Agreed but if, like most Mustachians (who aren't living in NY or the Bay area), your "at home" expenses are not very high, then you have to make sure your "permanent travel" expenses can't be too high either.  So I might be able to FIRE quite comfortably in, Wellington NZ if I stayed put but if I were to permanently slow travel around the rest of NZ I'd have to plan for a bigger stache.  That's why I'm planning to go to Portugal and Thailand/SEA for at least the first year or two after I FIRE - both LCOL areas.  If the markets do well and I end up earning some money in FIRE (which I probably will), then the stash may allow me to slow travel around higher COL areas. 

spartana

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Re: Sell everything and become a Permanent Traveler?
« Reply #191 on: January 20, 2017, 05:33:45 PM »
Economies of scale improve over time due to lower rent on longer leases, efficiency in local purchasing in the area, and the amortization of once off moving and acquisition costs.

If you FIRE at a SWR that is equivalent to your expenses in a single location in your home country - you're not going to be able to afford to travel and move between locations every week. Sure, if you perhaps FIRE at a SWR of 2-2.5x your expenses, then moving around that much might be feasible with the higher income - otherwise you're just going to end up having to sacrifice lifestyle like the 26YO on a budget.
This doesn't have to be the case. In general you'll just be transferring your at home living expenses to your travel expenses once you give up your home, insurances, prop tax, mortgage or rent, car, utilities, entertainment,  and vacation expenses (and maybe even healthcare expenses). And in many cases those "at home" expenses may be much higher than your "permanent travel" expenses. You just stay within your budget whatever that is and travel in a way your FIRE budget allows. Obviously some people like me who have lower FIRE expense may chose to budget travel while others with higher expenses could be staying at the Ritz every night. Longer term slower travel and staying at hostels or camping or renting inexpensive shared apts for awhile allows for lower expenses than does motel hopping every night or constant moving.

Agreed but if, like most Mustachians (who aren't living in NY or the Bay area), your "at home" expenses are not very high, then you have to make sure your "permanent travel" expenses can't be too high either.  So I might be able to FIRE quite comfortably in, Wellington NZ if I stayed put but if I were to permanently slow travel around the rest of NZ I'd have to plan for a bigger stache.  That's why I'm planning to go to Portugal and Thailand/SEA for at least the first year or two after I FIRE - both LCOL areas.  If the markets do well and I end up earning some money in FIRE (which I probably will), then the stash may allow me to slow travel around higher COL areas.
I agree that could be the case. So in that case people would have to budget for a higher FIRE $$# if they plan to spend more on anything beyond their "at home" expenses once FIREd.. That's true even if someone wants to keep the home base and take occasional short vacations or have more expensive hobbies or interests. Gotta add that stuff into the FIRE budget.

My personal at home expenses are super low and no way I'd be able to travel anywhere on that amount full time. But since there were going to be some things I knew I'd want beyond a barebones FIRE budget (like budget travel) I knew I'd want a bit extra to attain those things even though its still a low budget by most peoples view. So now my at home barebones budget plus some extra beyond that allows me to do some shorter term travel and some fun stuff. And that amount is equivilant to what I think I could live on full time if permanent budget travelling if not having a home base. Of course its gonna depend on the person and how they travel and their personal situation a lot.
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Re: Sell everything and become a Permanent Traveler?
« Reply #192 on: January 20, 2017, 06:44:04 PM »
Agreed. My point is that the faster you travel, the more expensive it will be. It's like, pick two of the following;

Travel Fast
Travel Cheap
Be comfortable

Right.  And we're saying skip the first one.  Slow travel is better anyways.

Then you get the cheap and comfortable, and enjoy yourself a lot more and really get to know a place.
Unless you're camping or boondocking and doing it by bicycle or feetsies ;-). Then its probably all the same whether you stay put a day, a weekor a month. Probably even by other types of transportation too if you'd be going to those other places anyways but why rush unless you have time limits or are doing something to challenge yourself like, oh I don't know, maybe hike the Camino ;-).

Lots of people on this forum do or have done long distance bike touring very cheaply and often move on everyday to somewhere new. Or RV boondocking or motorcycle camping or sailing, etc... More roughing it but still "travel" in my opinion and on  very little money. So fast can be cheap and even comfortable too.
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deborah

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Re: Sell everything and become a Permanent Traveler?
« Reply #193 on: January 20, 2017, 06:59:59 PM »
Economies of scale improve over time due to lower rent on longer leases, efficiency in local purchasing in the area, and the amortization of once off moving and acquisition costs.

If you FIRE at a SWR that is equivalent to your expenses in a single location in your home country - you're not going to be able to afford to travel and move between locations every week. Sure, if you perhaps FIRE at a SWR of 2-2.5x your expenses, then moving around that much might be feasible with the higher income - otherwise you're just going to end up having to sacrifice lifestyle like the 26YO on a budget.
This doesn't have to be the case. In general you'll just be transferring your at home living expenses to your travel expenses once you give up your home, insurances, prop tax, mortgage or rent, car, utilities, entertainment,  and vacation expenses (and maybe even healthcare expenses). And in many cases those "at home" expenses may be much higher than your "permanent travel" expenses. You just stay within your budget whatever that is and travel in a way your FIRE budget allows. Obviously some people like me who have lower FIRE expense may chose to budget travel while others with higher expenses could be staying at the Ritz every night. Longer term slower travel and staying at hostels or camping or renting inexpensive shared apts for awhile allows for lower expenses than does motel hopping every night or constant moving.

Agreed but if, like most Mustachians (who aren't living in NY or the Bay area), your "at home" expenses are not very high, then you have to make sure your "permanent travel" expenses can't be too high either.  So I might be able to FIRE quite comfortably in, Wellington NZ if I stayed put but if I were to permanently slow travel around the rest of NZ I'd have to plan for a bigger stache.  That's why I'm planning to go to Portugal and Thailand/SEA for at least the first year or two after I FIRE - both LCOL areas.  If the markets do well and I end up earning some money in FIRE (which I probably will), then the stash may allow me to slow travel around higher COL areas.
I agree that could be the case. So in that case people would have to budget for a higher FIRE $$# if they plan to spend more on anything beyond their "at home" expenses once FIREd.. That's true even if someone wants to keep the home base and take occasional short vacations or have more expensive hobbies or interests. Gotta add that stuff into the FIRE budget.

My personal at home expenses are super low and no way I'd be able to travel anywhere on that amount full time. But since there were going to be some things I knew I'd want beyond a barebones FIRE budget (like budget travel) I knew I'd want a bit extra to attain those things even though its still a low budget by most peoples view. So now my at home barebones budget plus some extra beyond that allows me to do some shorter term travel and some fun stuff. And that amount is equivilant to what I think I could live on full time if permanent budget travelling if not having a home base. Of course its gonna depend on the person and how they travel and their personal situation a lot.
You need to think through your retirement to really budget for it properly. For instance, people may spend many years traveling, but they often want to stop when they get elderly - and they want to go "home". I've even seen many migrants, who have given up their ties to the motherland, who just want to be in the land of their youth when they get  quite old. One of the interesting things is that people I've known who have had dementia have reverted to their mother tongue - which makes it even more difficult if you are in a land that speaks a different language. The elderly tend to find every move stressful, and it is much easier to fit into a new community when you are a parent of school aged children than at other times of your life. So planning what you could eventually do when you stop traveling (especially if it will increase your budget dramatically) should be part of your budgeting for retirement.

That said, everyone I know who has retired, has found that their expenses were less than they budgeted, so worrying about extra expenses if you don't travel is probably ridiculous.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2017, 01:24:40 AM by deborah »

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Re: Sell everything and become a Permanent Traveler?
« Reply #194 on: January 20, 2017, 08:39:46 PM »
Any good websites to share, or pretty much just Airbnb?

Air BnB is nice, and convenient, but I haven't been impressed especially for affordable long term stays: Air BnB fees add up too much, and for us there hasn't been great long term inventory, especially if you start looking for non shared, pet friendly, etc.

We have had better luck with Craigslist. It takes more work, more weeding out, and more due diligence, but can pay off better. This is my experience in english speaking north america, where I am familiar with the culture, language, etc and able to weed through the worst of Craigslist :)
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arebelspy

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Re: Sell everything and become a Permanent Traveler?
« Reply #195 on: January 20, 2017, 08:48:02 PM »
Agreed. My point is that the faster you travel, the more expensive it will be. It's like, pick two of the following;

Travel Fast
Travel Cheap
Be comfortable

Right.  And we're saying skip the first one.  Slow travel is better anyways.

Then you get the cheap and comfortable, and enjoy yourself a lot more and really get to know a place.
Unless you're camping or boondocking and doing it by bicycle or feetsies ;-). Then its probably all the same whether you stay put a day, a weekor a month. Probably even by other types of transportation too if you'd be going to those other places anyways but why rush unless you have time limits or are doing something to challenge yourself like, oh I don't know, maybe hike the Camino ;-).

Lots of people on this forum do or have done long distance bike touring very cheaply and often move on everyday to somewhere new. Or RV boondocking or motorcycle camping or sailing, etc... More roughing it but still "travel" in my opinion and on  very little money. So fast can be cheap and even comfortable too.

Those examples typically nail the cheap and fast, but lose out on comfort.  Certainly you can be somewhat comfortable, especially if your bar is low, but less comfortable compared to the other options--that's clearly the one of the three options that suffers in the "bicycle boondocking motorcycle camping" type travel, IMO.  :)
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spartana

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Re: Sell everything and become a Permanent Traveler?
« Reply #196 on: January 20, 2017, 11:17:07 PM »
Agreed. My point is that the faster you travel, the more expensive it will be. It's like, pick two of the following;

Travel Fast
Travel Cheap
Be comfortable

Right.  And we're saying skip the first one.  Slow travel is better anyways.

Then you get the cheap and comfortable, and enjoy yourself a lot more and really get to know a place.
Unless you're camping or boondocking and doing it by bicycle or feetsies ;-). Then its probably all the same whether you stay put a day, a weekor a month. Probably even by other types of transportation too if you'd be going to those other places anyways but why rush unless you have time limits or are doing something to challenge yourself like, oh I don't know, maybe hike the Camino ;-).

Lots of people on this forum do or have done long distance bike touring very cheaply and often move on everyday to somewhere new. Or RV boondocking or motorcycle camping or sailing, etc... More roughing it but still "travel" in my opinion and on  very little money. So fast can be cheap and even comfortable too.

Those examples typically nail the cheap and fast, but lose out on comfort.  Certainly you can be somewhat comfortable, especially if your bar is low, but less comfortable compared to the other options--that's clearly the one of the three options that suffers in the "bicycle boondocking motorcycle camping" type travel, IMO.  :)
What...?! You mean riding a fully loaded bike 50 miles in freezing torrential rain with a 50 mph headwind only to huddle in a soaking wet tent in some back water muddy campground with over flowing pit toilets isn't "comfortable'? What kind of mustachian are you? ;-)

OK so I take it back - number 2 and 3 are best although not always as fun, adventurous or interesting.

Deborah I totally agree peoplr should have a back up plan and/or the money to make any changes if they want to be able to settle down somewhere or go back "home". Especially if home is in a HCOL that you may be priced out of after years away.



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arebelspy

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Re: Sell everything and become a Permanent Traveler?
« Reply #197 on: January 21, 2017, 01:11:00 AM »
Deborah I totally agree peoplr should have a back up plan and/or the money to make any changes if they want to be able to settle down somewhere or go back "home". Especially if home is in a HCOL that you may be priced out of after years away.

Agreed.

As I've posted before:
We also liked the concept of ERing overseas, in a cheaper COL country, but having seen people do this and get "stuck" when they don't want to live there anymore, but don't have enough to live back at home, we decided to wait to ER until we could support the lifestyle where we wanted to live in the States.

Once we hit that, we started traveling full time, and may settle in a low COL area, but we won't ever be "stuck" there if we decide we don't like it.

(It does come with the tradeoff of having to work longer--had we wanted to ER on a budget like she was talking, we could have done it at least 5 years sooner, I'm sure, but we enjoyed our jobs at the time.)

(I've posted similar sentiments elsewhere, too, that was the first one pulled up by a search.)

It's 100% something to consider.  If you go in with enough money to go back OR with the mindset that if you enjoy a few years overseas, then decide you want a higher COL and decide to go back to work, that's not the end of the world, then it's all good.  Just don't expect a new situation to be perfect, and have flexibility in being able to change it (via money or life-hours).
We are two former teachers who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, and now travel the world full time with a kid.
If you want to know more about me, or how we did that, or see lots of pictures, this Business Insider profile tells our story pretty well.
We (occasionally) blog at AdventuringAlong.com.
You can also read my forum "Journal."

Metric Mouse

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Re: Sell everything and become a Permanent Traveler?
« Reply #198 on: January 21, 2017, 05:45:29 AM »
Any good websites to share, or pretty much just Airbnb?

Air BnB is nice, and convenient, but I haven't been impressed especially for affordable long term stays: Air BnB fees add up too much, and for us there hasn't been great long term inventory, especially if you start looking for non shared, pet friendly, etc.

We have had better luck with Craigslist. It takes more work, more weeding out, and more due diligence, but can pay off better. This is my experience in english speaking north america, where I am familiar with the culture, language, etc and able to weed through the worst of Craigslist :)

Interesting tip. I've never gone through Craigslist for lodging; may have to look into it if I am ever in need of slashing a trip budget.
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Re: Sell everything and become a Permanent Traveler?
« Reply #199 on: January 21, 2017, 06:30:07 AM »
Any good websites to share, or pretty much just Airbnb?

Air BnB is nice, and convenient, but I haven't been impressed especially for affordable long term stays: Air BnB fees add up too much, and for us there hasn't been great long term inventory, especially if you start looking for non shared, pet friendly, etc.

We have had better luck with Craigslist. It takes more work, more weeding out, and more due diligence, but can pay off better. This is my experience in english speaking north america, where I am familiar with the culture, language, etc and able to weed through the worst of Craigslist :)

I'm glad you've had luck with Craigslist.  I imagine just doing due diligence on some of those listings can be a full time job!  I guess as long as you aren't sending money beforehand, you can weed out some of the more obvious scammers.  Airbnb does look a little more expensive in some places, and the automatic cancellations messages bother me, but it seems like there is a little more protection against easy fraud.