Author Topic: Sell everything and become a Permanent Traveler?  (Read 26012 times)

Cannot Wait!

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Re: Sell everything and become a Permanent Traveler?
« Reply #100 on: December 27, 2016, 11:48:48 AM »
If you had 10 million dollars, why wouldn’t you just pay the taxes?  Someone has to pay for the firefighters, schools, roadways, parks, etc.
Someone has to pay, just not me.  Remember I don't legally reside so why should I pay for these things?

I think the poster meant to say: why would one alter their life so much to avoid paying relatively little in taxes.

If one wants to shift countries every 183 days for the rest of their life, that's great. To do so purely to avoid taxes seems silly.
That, and 10 million is surely ENOUGH to do everything you want in life AND still be able to pay taxes without hardship.
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Re: Sell everything and become a Permanent Traveler?
« Reply #101 on: December 27, 2016, 11:55:23 AM »
How are they going to know why you are renouncing, read your mind?  As long as the tax bill is up to date and you pay the fee I don't see how they could refuse a renouncement.

With the IRS, in general, they can decide whatever they want, and you are the one responsible for proving them wrong.

What reason would you give for renouncing, if asked?
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deborah

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Re: Sell everything and become a Permanent Traveler?
« Reply #102 on: December 27, 2016, 01:22:35 PM »
This is one difference between frugality and MEANNESS or CRIMINALITY - Frugality doesn't include screwing other people around by underpaying/not paying for your obligations - including the people who supply you with roads and the basics of living (ie governments - your taxes at work), and people from whom you are getting stuff and services. One thing I object to about some people who plan to live abroad is that they are doing it out of MEANNESS and CRIMINALITY.

jim555

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Re: Sell everything and become a Permanent Traveler?
« Reply #103 on: December 27, 2016, 01:54:19 PM »
This is one difference between frugality and MEANNESS or CRIMINALITY - Frugality doesn't include screwing other people around by underpaying/not paying for your obligations - including the people who supply you with roads and the basics of living (ie governments - your taxes at work), and people from whom you are getting stuff and services. One thing I object to about some people who plan to live abroad is that they are doing it out of MEANNESS and CRIMINALITY.
It is a totally LEGAL, if you don't meet the residency requirements of a country (that doesn't tax worldwide income) you do not owe the taxes. 

Metric Mouse

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Re: Sell everything and become a Permanent Traveler?
« Reply #104 on: December 27, 2016, 02:03:07 PM »
This is one difference between frugality and MEANNESS or CRIMINALITY - Frugality doesn't include screwing other people around by underpaying/not paying for your obligations - including the people who supply you with roads and the basics of living (ie governments - your taxes at work), and people from whom you are getting stuff and services. One thing I object to about some people who plan to live abroad is that they are doing it out of MEANNESS and CRIMINALITY.

Those roads that one would not be driving on if they lived outside of the USA?
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JLee

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Re: Sell everything and become a Permanent Traveler?
« Reply #105 on: December 27, 2016, 03:10:22 PM »


Google Fi sounds really fantastic. I was thinking of getting sim cards at each temporary place, but keeping the same number is a big +. Plus, the convenience. Plus, it's not expensive.
PM me if you decide to sign up, I have a referral code, we'd each get $20 off the next statement.  :)

Will do, but it won't be before next year or right before I leave.

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You can always use the traveling mailbox thing as the MAILING address on Vanguard, but not the residence address, I believe.

Why not?  I do.

Vanguard clearly says that the street address should reflect your residence for tax purposes.

That address is my residence for tax purposes. 

As above, where else would be my residence?  The longest I've been anywhere in the last year is Istanbul, at 3 months. Is that my residence? I haven't been there for 9 months and have no plans to go back.

The place I currently am, Manila, I'm only here for another week. Is this my residence?

As far as the IRS is concerned, my residence for tax purposes is Nevada. That is my only address is Nevada. Ergo, it is my residence for tax purposes.

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Even if your remote mailbox is in the same state as your claimed residence

Not just the same state, the same address.

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Vanguard could freeze your account and ask for a utility bill and pay stub to prove your residence before they'd unfreeze it.

Guess I'd provide that, then.

My Google Fi phone bill has that address.  Utility bill.

My paychecks from selling trade lines have that address. Pay stubs.

I think I can put up a pretty good argument.

Of course, they could still leave it frozen, but I'm not super worried about it, as you can tell. :)

Pay stub?  I'd provide a Vanguard statement to Vanguard that shows my address along with a nice letter saying that I'm retired and that's my paycheck. :D

arebelspy

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Re: Sell everything and become a Permanent Traveler?
« Reply #106 on: December 27, 2016, 04:12:05 PM »
Pay stub?  I'd provide a Vanguard statement to Vanguard that shows my address along with a nice letter saying that I'm retired and that's my paycheck. :D

Hah.  Testing the account representative to know if they are aware of the logical fallacy of begging the question?

"You have a problem with the address I'm using, and want me to change it, or prove that it's my address?  Okay, my proof for it is this Vanguard previous statement using it."
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JLee

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Re: Sell everything and become a Permanent Traveler?
« Reply #107 on: December 27, 2016, 04:56:16 PM »
Pay stub?  I'd provide a Vanguard statement to Vanguard that shows my address along with a nice letter saying that I'm retired and that's my paycheck. :D

Hah.  Testing the account representative to know if they are aware of the logical fallacy of begging the question?

"You have a problem with the address I'm using, and want me to change it, or prove that it's my address?  Okay, my proof for it is this Vanguard previous statement using it."
:D

gerardc

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Re: Sell everything and become a Permanent Traveler?
« Reply #108 on: December 27, 2016, 10:31:56 PM »
If I had 10 million dollars this is what I would do to never pay taxes again (legally):

Get a citizenship from a country that does not tax worldwide income.  Almost every county in the world does NOT tax worldwide income if you are not a resident.
Renounce US citizenship.  Why?  To avoid tax on worldwide income.
Travel from country to country never spending more than 183 days at a time in any one.  Why?  Avoid residency, which avoids tax liability.
Invest in US stock via overseas exchanges.
Sit back and enjoy a tax free existence.

This does not always work. For example, Canada does not tax worldwide income if you are a non-resident. However, if your only passport is Canadian and you're hopping for country to country, Canada might claim you as a resident even if you spend 0 day per year in Canada, on the basis that Canada is the country you have the most ties to (your passport counts) (see http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/tx/nnrsdnts/cmmn/rsdncy-eng.html).

For this to work, you would need, in addition to renouncing US citizenship and getting a Canadian citizenship, to establish some form of residency in a third country. Or just pray that Canada doesn't question you. Or just give up.

I'm curious to know whether other countries have a similar policy to deem their citizens as resident if they're not established anywhere.

deborah

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Re: Sell everything and become a Permanent Traveler?
« Reply #109 on: December 27, 2016, 10:49:07 PM »
Yes. Australia.

jim555

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Re: Sell everything and become a Permanent Traveler?
« Reply #110 on: December 28, 2016, 08:39:37 AM »
Many European countries will give citizenship and a passport if you can prove you are a descendant of a person who was a citizen of their country.  Ireland is probably the best and easiest.  Merely having an Irish passport doesn't make you liable for Irish taxes.  You can get it without ever stepping foot in Ireland.

Since Ireland is part of the EU it give unlimited right of abode in all EU member states.  So all you would have to do is pack your limo an pop from one country to another when the time is up.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2016, 08:46:46 AM by jim555 »

Out of the Blue

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Re: Sell everything and become a Permanent Traveler?
« Reply #111 on: December 28, 2016, 01:28:32 PM »
Quote
If I had 10 million dollars this is what I would do to never pay taxes again (legally):

Get a citizenship from a country that does not tax worldwide income.  Almost every county in the world does NOT tax worldwide income if you are not a resident.
Renounce US citizenship.  Why?  To avoid tax on worldwide income.
Travel from country to country never spending more than 183 days at a time in any one.  Why?  Avoid residency, which avoids tax liability.
Invest in US stock via overseas exchanges.
Sit back and enjoy a tax free existence.

The bolded part might not work - which overseas exchanges are you talking about, and are you sure that they will not tax your dividends and capital gains based on the "source" principle?  After all, residence is only one of the two (three, if you're American) bases of taxation.

I've been looking at this recently as I plan to leave my current country (New Zealand) after I FIRE.  My investments are currently in Vanguard ETFs through a NZ portfolio investment entity (PIE) - this is pretty much the best way to do it in NZ; direct investments in Vanguard ETFs through a US broker are far more cumbersome and probably less tax advantageous for reasons I won't get into .  Non-residents are taxed at a flat 28% on all their PIE income, whereas residents are taxed at (potentially lower) marginal tax rates. 

I was thinking of travelling around Europe after FIRE, and moving my investments to UK or Irish-domiciled ETFs as I don't fancy paying 28% tax in FIRE.   From my initial research, it looks like Ireland might imposes a 20% dividend withholding tax on dividend payments to non-residents that are not resident in a country with which Ireland has a double tax treaty. There may also be capital gains taxes when you sell your ETF units. Some places also tax unrealised capital gains.

Edited: On closer inspection Irish-domiciled ETFs might be exempt from the 20% DWT, but I wouldn't be confident that that's the end of the matter.  Basically I'd be getting tax advice from a professional before I move my investments.

In summary, even if you're not tax resident anywhere, that doesn't mean you don't have to pay taxes. 
 
« Last Edit: December 28, 2016, 01:40:55 PM by Out of the Blue »

jim555

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Re: Sell everything and become a Permanent Traveler?
« Reply #112 on: December 28, 2016, 01:43:05 PM »
I was thinking about places like Caymen Islands, Bermuda, Isle of Man, Jersey where you can open accounts and they don't really care too much and ask too many questions. 
But I am no expert international tax havens.

Out of the Blue

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Re: Sell everything and become a Permanent Traveler?
« Reply #113 on: December 28, 2016, 06:59:30 PM »
Yes but even if you have an account in a tax haven, you'd be investing in companies that are resident in the US/UK or other non-tax havens.  Any dividends paid by those companies may well be taxed at source.  I am not familiar with the US/UK tax systems though, and ETFs throw up some special considerations.

Lives to travel

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Re: Sell everything and become a Permanent Traveler?
« Reply #114 on: December 29, 2016, 01:44:40 PM »
I'm very interested in this lifestyle, at least I think I am.  I've done a bit of hopping around travel (2 RTWs) and don't have a problem adapting to new situations.  Really my only needs are a safe, quiet and somewhat comfortable private place to live (Hostel = No!  Small 1 BR Apt = Fine.)

One thing I can't shake is the idea that I should probably have a fallback place to live in the states, like a cheap condo in a city to fall back into if my plans fall to pieces or I get tired of the lifestyle and need a home while I reevaluate my choices.  I like the idea of a condo-hotel, but most seem to have restrictions on how long you can stay there at any given time.  I wouldn't plan on living there full time, but sometimes life happens.  Any ideas on where one could find a relatively cheap condo (maybe sub $100,000) to either rent short term or keep empty as an insurance policy?  Outside the US is fine too as long as it is a generally stable country with reasonable laws regarding foreigners owning real estate.  Given the added interest I seem to be seeing in the independent, free-wheeling travel lifestyle, it would seem like there would be a market for people who want a cheap, safe, home base condo in an easy to get to city as a backup.

arebelspy

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Re: Sell everything and become a Permanent Traveler?
« Reply #115 on: December 29, 2016, 05:50:02 PM »
Vegas.
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LAGuy

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Re: Sell everything and become a Permanent Traveler?
« Reply #116 on: December 29, 2016, 07:28:46 PM »
Vegas.

Or to be more precise, I'd suggest Henderson, about 30 mins outside of Vegas. I've toyed with the idea as well, but for now I'm sticking nomad.

malacca

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Re: Sell everything and become a Permanent Traveler?
« Reply #117 on: December 30, 2016, 01:11:57 AM »
If I had 10 million dollars this is what I would do to never pay taxes again (legally):

Get a citizenship from a country that does not tax worldwide income.  Almost every county in the world does NOT tax worldwide income if you are not a resident.
Renounce US citizenship.  Why?  To avoid tax on worldwide income.
Travel from country to country never spending more than 183 days at a time in any one.  Why?  Avoid residency, which avoids tax liability.
Invest in US stock via overseas exchanges.
Sit back and enjoy a tax free existence.

This will work if you are NOT a US citizen. There is now big signs on the wall in US embassies stating that you are still liable for US taxes if you renounce your US citizenship for tax reasons. This is another example of why it is so hard to be a US Expat working abroad.

One strategy is to gain citizenship in a country that doesn't allow dual citizenship - then you are required to give up your US citizenship. Singapore is central for this. I met many Americans working in the finance industry that had to pay an additional $100 to $200K a year in US taxes (they were making good dough). Most quickly got Singapore citizenship and rid themselves of their "US taxation without representation" document.
How are they going to know why you are renouncing, read your mind?  As long as the tax bill is up to date and you pay the fee I don't see how they could refuse a renouncement.

Having lived abroad 20+ years and dealt with the US government on many levels, the determination is up to some individual at an embassy. Keep in mind there are few protections from the overreaching US government when you are abroad. Further, there is no one in the government interested in protecting someone who has renounced (or even an expat who hasn't).

If you have a lot of stock options or other untaxed capital gains that they find out about, you will be under the thumb.

Remember when they arrested UK citizens (transferring planes in NYC to another country) because they were executives of totally legal online gaming company? We have our own online gaming in the USA - gambling is (unfortunately) just about everywhere. But someone in the US government decided these overseas gaming companies are illegal since they allowed US citizens to gamble on their websites. Hypocrisy at its finest!

Unfortunately, many people in our government think that if a court doesn't block them from illegal or unethical behavior then it is OK. Look at our legislature - there are some pretty bad people that get elected. Some booger congressman from shitsville would just as soon hang anyone who renounced. They really think the USA is the oDnly good place on earth. Embassy staff is also has a decent amount of these types. They really think America is GOD'S GIFT TO EARTH!

Only Americans are taxed on their worldwide income when living abroad. Taxation without representation (gosh, didn't we study that in middle school history?)
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EscapeVelocity2020

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Re: Sell everything and become a Permanent Traveler?
« Reply #118 on: December 30, 2016, 01:46:30 AM »
following
Transitioning to FIRE'd albeit somewhat cautiously...

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Re: Sell everything and become a Permanent Traveler?
« Reply #119 on: December 30, 2016, 03:30:59 AM »
I left my home country almost 7 years ago... Spent 4 years in Australia, now in SE Asia.

I wouldn't change my decision. I still work, but online.

arebelspy

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Re: Sell everything and become a Permanent Traveler?
« Reply #120 on: December 30, 2016, 03:40:45 AM »
Only Americans are taxed on their worldwide income when living abroad. Taxation without representation (gosh, didn't we study that in middle school history?)

Expats are still allowed to vote, so they are represented.  I'm not sure how an expat paying taxes is "taxation without representation."  Perhaps you can explain what you meant?
We are two former teachers who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, and now travel the world full time with a kid.
If you want to know more about me, or how we did that, or see lots of pictures, this Business Insider profile tells our story pretty well.
We (occasionally) blog at AdventuringAlong.com.
You can also read my forum "Journal."

Metric Mouse

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Re: Sell everything and become a Permanent Traveler?
« Reply #121 on: December 30, 2016, 05:03:21 AM »
Pay stub?  I'd provide a Vanguard statement to Vanguard that shows my address along with a nice letter saying that I'm retired and that's my paycheck. :D

Nice.
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CanuckExpat

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Re: Sell everything and become a Permanent Traveler?
« Reply #122 on: January 02, 2017, 01:38:24 AM »
Regarding earlier discussion of travelingmailbox.com and if it would be accepted as residential and mailing address.

We have one of their Florida addresses and use it as our "home" address.
Two problems so far:
Bank of America rejects the address outright online as a home address and won't let me enter it
Ally Bank accepted the address, but a few days later I got a call from them saying the address was flagged by their compliance (or something) department as not a residential address and that I had to provide something else.

I had meant to follow up with Travelingmailbox about those two cases but haven't yet.
No problems with anything else, works with Vanguard.

The service itself is quite nice, but slightly pricey (to cheap me). There were cheaper options, but went with this for range of services. Will re-evaluate sooner or later.
Was targetting Freedom35 but ended up retiring a couple years early. Currently Based in Buffalo for the summer.

CanuckExpat

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Re: Sell everything and become a Permanent Traveler?
« Reply #123 on: January 12, 2017, 04:47:29 PM »
Regarding earlier discussion of travelingmailbox.com and if it would be accepted as residential and mailing address.

We have one of their Florida addresses and use it as our "home" address.
Two problems so far:
Bank of America rejects the address outright online as a home address and won't let me enter it
Ally Bank accepted the address, but a few days later I got a call from them saying the address was flagged by their compliance (or something) department as not a residential address and that I had to provide something else.

Following up on my own query, here is what they told me:

"Since we are listed as a Commercial Mail Receiving Address, the addresses may not always be used for residential purposes but can be used for mailing purposes. Some institutions will only accept residential addresses and that is a policy of theirs that we cannot override. You may contact these institutions directly to see if they are able to override their system to allow the address."

So if I am understanding correctly, their is a list, or some other method that can allow these addresses to be identified as a forward service (etc). It is up to individual banks then whether they accept it as a "home" address or not. 
Was targetting Freedom35 but ended up retiring a couple years early. Currently Based in Buffalo for the summer.

actionjackson

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Re: Sell everything and become a Permanent Traveler?
« Reply #124 on: January 13, 2017, 10:22:32 AM »
There have been some great replies to this post.

I'd echo those sentiments from the Endless Travel couple about 'trying before you buy'.

I quit work in 2011 to travel the world. I used about $20k USD in savings over 12 months aimlessly wandering across about 40 countries. I bought a motorbike in London, and rode around Europe with camping gear. I camped about once very week or so - rough camping for free was a lot more difficult than I'd anticipated, and the drain on your energy of being on the road means it's better to have a roof over your head. I sold the bike and went home with about $3k in my pocket, which was enough to keep me covered until I found work.

So I lived off roughly $300 a week. I spent more in Western Europe and less in Eastern Europe obviously.

Going home what I learnt was that long term travel without a purpose isn't for me. To me, there are only so many things you can see before 'seeing things' can become tedious. Don't get me wrong, I did a lot of things that you might consider great experiences. I helpx'd on a horse ranch, and at a vineyard in Spain and learn to ride horses and make wine. I learnt martial arts in China for a couple of months. There were many things that I had wanted to do, and I got to tick them off my bucket list. However, after 12 months of being on the road, I was definitely ready to throw in this life of hedonism and go home and get back to building something of substance.

When I travel again I'll spend more time in a single country. I want to eventually speak fluent Spanish, and so I see that as a potential goal of long term, and worthy goal of travel in Spanish speaking countries. The other thing I might consider would be a goal of circumnavigating the world by motorbike - not just for the 'bragging rights' but also because forcing yourself into doing something like this puts you on a path with struggles that will lead to personal growth. They will also be more likely to lead to the development of strong bonds with your travel partner/s. Aimless wandering where you just go wherever is comfortable, and take the travel path of least resistance - to me, now, after my past experience, would be pretty fruitless and uninspiring.

For that reason, I couldn't see long term wandering as a life I would want to lead.

 

FIRE4Science

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Re: Sell everything and become a Permanent Traveler?
« Reply #125 on: January 13, 2017, 10:32:28 AM »
These is what engineers call "World Class".
Businessmen understand that all corporations try to achieve this also. Being able to freely go around the world without calling home any country and invest everywhere to always have cash/needs.

arebelspy

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Re: Sell everything and become a Permanent Traveler?
« Reply #126 on: January 13, 2017, 05:03:30 PM »
Going home what I learnt was that long term travel without a purpose isn't for me. To me, there are only so many things you can see before 'seeing things' can become tedious. Don't get me wrong, I did a lot of things that you might consider great experiences. I helpx'd on a horse ranch, and at a vineyard in Spain and learn to ride horses and make wine. I learnt martial arts in China for a couple of months. There were many things that I had wanted to do, and I got to tick them off my bucket list. However, after 12 months of being on the road, I was definitely ready to throw in this life of hedonism and go home and get back to building something of substance.

Can I ask how you define this, and what this was that you went back to that counted as "substance"?
We are two former teachers who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, and now travel the world full time with a kid.
If you want to know more about me, or how we did that, or see lots of pictures, this Business Insider profile tells our story pretty well.
We (occasionally) blog at AdventuringAlong.com.
You can also read my forum "Journal."

actionjackson

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Re: Sell everything and become a Permanent Traveler?
« Reply #127 on: January 13, 2017, 06:11:53 PM »
When you wander, looking at things during casual travel, you tend to be just observing, rather than contributing to society in any meaningful way. I don't think that's a huge issue to do for a year or so, but to wander aimlessly for 5+ years, I mean, you're essentially just bumming around taking instagram photos. My point is that 'travel', and just seeing things, won't be enough for most people that have been motivated enough to become FI.

Substance - starting a family, supporting the family I do have, building my career so I can set myself up to be FI in the medium to long term, being a contributing member to a community.

arebelspy

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Re: Sell everything and become a Permanent Traveler?
« Reply #128 on: January 13, 2017, 07:02:04 PM »
When you wander, looking at things during casual travel, you tend to be just observing, rather than contributing to society in any meaningful way.

Yeah, I'm just not sure what this means.  :)

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Substance - starting a family, supporting the family I do have

Okay, family is one.  What about someone that has no desire for a partner and/or kids?

What if they have their family with them while traveling?

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building my career so I can set myself up to be FI in the medium to long term

Okay.  What if one is already FI?  What if their work allows them to travel (as they're location independent)?

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being a contributing member to a community.

Sort of circular, defining "contributing" something of substance as being a "contributing" member of society.

I'm just curious what you mean by "contributing" that one can't do while traveling.

So far "contributing" seems to include family and/or a job, but if one doesn't want either, can they not contribute? Or if they can have that with them while traveling, is that not contributing?

I'm not trying to nitpick or quibble over semantics, I'm just genuinely trying to understand your definition and what you mean, because I don't see what travel would have to do with someone "contributing" (whatever that means, it'll depend on the definition one is using, obviously, which is why I asked) or not.

Thanks for taking the time to think out your definitions and reply.  :)
We are two former teachers who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, and now travel the world full time with a kid.
If you want to know more about me, or how we did that, or see lots of pictures, this Business Insider profile tells our story pretty well.
We (occasionally) blog at AdventuringAlong.com.
You can also read my forum "Journal."

actionjackson

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Re: Sell everything and become a Permanent Traveler?
« Reply #129 on: January 13, 2017, 11:03:38 PM »
When you wander, looking at things during casual travel, you tend to be just observing, rather than contributing to society in any meaningful way.

Yeah, I'm just not sure what this means.  :)

Okay

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Substance - starting a family, supporting the family I do have

Okay, family is one.  What about someone that has no desire for a partner and/or kids? I'm assuming they have parents, aunts, uncles, brothers, sisters, friends etc - for me, I want to be around at least some of the time to support them

What if they have their family with them while traveling?

Traveling with a family non-stop for 5+ years is going to be tough - kids need to go to school - I guess you could home school them, but I mean, that has it's limits.

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building my career so I can set myself up to be FI in the medium to long term

Okay.  What if one is already FI?  What if their work allows them to travel (as they're location independent)? Cool by them, still, aforementioned reasons would still come into play for me, even if I was FI.

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being a contributing member to a community.

Sort of circular, defining "contributing" something of substance as being a "contributing" member of society.

I'm just curious what you mean by "contributing" that one can't do while traveling.

So far "contributing" seems to include family and/or a job, but if one doesn't want either, can they not contribute? Or if they can have that with them while traveling, is that not contributing?

I'm not trying to nitpick or quibble over semantics, I'm just genuinely trying to understand your definition and what you mean, because I don't see what travel would have to do with someone "contributing" (whatever that means, it'll depend on the definition one is using, obviously, which is why I asked) or not.

Thanks for taking the time to think out your definitions and reply.  :)

No probs, that was my experience, I think that you take yourself out of society while your traveling in that fashion. It's fine for a time, but I wouldn't want to do that, and live like that, permanently.


I think it's worth clarifying here - I'm talking about becoming a permanent traveller here - not a 1 or 2 year stint.

Metric Mouse

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Re: Sell everything and become a Permanent Traveler?
« Reply #130 on: January 13, 2017, 11:12:02 PM »
Many European countries will give citizenship and a passport if you can prove you are a descendant of a person who was a citizen of their country.  Ireland is probably the best and easiest.  Merely having an Irish passport doesn't make you liable for Irish taxes.  You can get it without ever stepping foot in Ireland.

Since Ireland is part of the EU it give unlimited right of abode in all EU member states.  So all you would have to do is pack your limo an pop from one country to another when the time is up.

This is a pretty great idea. Not that I'd like to live in any of the other countries I've visited, especially in the EU, but the option might be nice.
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actionjackson

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Re: Sell everything and become a Permanent Traveler?
« Reply #131 on: January 13, 2017, 11:49:47 PM »
Many European countries will give citizenship and a passport if you can prove you are a descendant of a person who was a citizen of their country.  Ireland is probably the best and easiest.  Merely having an Irish passport doesn't make you liable for Irish taxes.  You can get it without ever stepping foot in Ireland.

Since Ireland is part of the EU it give unlimited right of abode in all EU member states.  So all you would have to do is pack your limo an pop from one country to another when the time is up.

This is a pretty great idea. Not that I'd like to live in any of the other countries I've visited, especially in the EU, but the option might be nice.

You have to be a pretty close descendent;

Citizenship through descent from Irish grandparents
If one of your grandparents is an Irish citizen who was born in Ireland, but neither of your parents was born in Ireland, you may become an Irish citizen. You will need to have your birth registered in the Foreign Births Register – see below.

Other Irish ancestors
Unless at least one parent or an Irish-born grandparent was an Irish citizen at the time of your birth, you cannot claim Irish citizenship on the basis of extended previous ancestry (that is, ancestors other than your parents or grandparents). In addition, you cannot claim Irish citizenship on the basis that a relation such as a cousin, aunt or uncle was an Irish citizen if none of your parents or grandparents was an Irish citizen at the time of your birth.


I've got a British passport through my mother, but that will be pretty useless once they leave the EU.

Metric Mouse

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Re: Sell everything and become a Permanent Traveler?
« Reply #132 on: January 13, 2017, 11:51:35 PM »
Many European countries will give citizenship and a passport if you can prove you are a descendant of a person who was a citizen of their country.  Ireland is probably the best and easiest.  Merely having an Irish passport doesn't make you liable for Irish taxes.  You can get it without ever stepping foot in Ireland.

Since Ireland is part of the EU it give unlimited right of abode in all EU member states.  So all you would have to do is pack your limo an pop from one country to another when the time is up.

This is a pretty great idea. Not that I'd like to live in any of the other countries I've visited, especially in the EU, but the option might be nice.

You have to be a pretty close descendent;

Citizenship through descent from Irish grandparents
If one of your grandparents is an Irish citizen who was born in Ireland, but neither of your parents was born in Ireland, you may become an Irish citizen. You will need to have your birth registered in the Foreign Births Register – see below.

Other Irish ancestors
Unless at least one parent or an Irish-born grandparent was an Irish citizen at the time of your birth, you cannot claim Irish citizenship on the basis of extended previous ancestry (that is, ancestors other than your parents or grandparents). In addition, you cannot claim Irish citizenship on the basis that a relation such as a cousin, aunt or uncle was an Irish citizen if none of your parents or grandparents was an Irish citizen at the time of your birth.


I've got a British passport through my mother, but that will be pretty useless once they leave the EU.

Ahh. Yeah, I'm further removed than that. Guess I'm stuck with the USA, for better or worse. Thanks for the info.
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jim555

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Re: Sell everything and become a Permanent Traveler?
« Reply #133 on: January 14, 2017, 11:26:31 AM »
Does a PT need a VPN?  I was thinking my bank or broker might react if they see my connecting from a foreign county and freeze the account.  Is that a common problem?

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Re: Sell everything and become a Permanent Traveler?
« Reply #134 on: January 14, 2017, 11:59:57 AM »
Does a PT need a VPN?  I was thinking my bank or broker might react if they see my connecting from a foreign county and freeze the account.  Is that a common problem?
I occasionally use a VPN, but a free one has been sufficient. I may subscribe to a good one eventually, but haven't needed it yet. They're cheap, even if you do decide to pay for one.
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actionjackson

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Re: Sell everything and become a Permanent Traveler?
« Reply #135 on: January 14, 2017, 05:26:52 PM »
Does a PT need a VPN?  I was thinking my bank or broker might react if they see my connecting from a foreign county and freeze the account.  Is that a common problem?

Just tell them you're in that country. At least with BOA you can just go on the site and select the dates and countries you will be traveling in.

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Re: Sell everything and become a Permanent Traveler?
« Reply #136 on: January 14, 2017, 08:00:41 PM »
I saw a meme the other day that really spoke to me:

"Some people need to spread their wings; others need to spread their roots".

Neither is right, wrong, or better than the other.  We all have different ways of contributing to society, and the only wrong way is to be dishonest with yourself.

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Re: Sell everything and become a Permanent Traveler?
« Reply #137 on: January 14, 2017, 09:06:30 PM »
I saw a meme the other day that really spoke to me:

"Some people need to spread their wings; others need to spread their roots".

Neither is right, wrong, or better than the other.  We all have different ways of contributing to society, and the only wrong way is to be dishonest with yourself.

I like that quote.
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Re: Sell everything and become a Permanent Traveler?
« Reply #138 on: January 16, 2017, 06:54:06 AM »
I saw a meme the other day that really spoke to me:

"Some people need to spread their wings; others need to spread their roots".

Neither is right, wrong, or better than the other.  We all have different ways of contributing to society, and the only wrong way is to be dishonest with yourself.

I like that quote.

But I'd add that most people need to spread their wings as opposed to deepening their roots.  There are plenty of 'rooted families'.  I guess that's what makes it nice for the 'wing spreaders'.
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Re: Sell everything and become a Permanent Traveler?
« Reply #139 on: January 16, 2017, 02:13:41 PM »
I saw a meme the other day that really spoke to me:

"Some people need to spread their wings; others need to spread their roots".

Neither is right, wrong, or better than the other.  We all have different ways of contributing to society, and the only wrong way is to be dishonest with yourself.

I like that quote.

But I'd add that most people need to spread their wings as opposed to deepening their roots.  There are plenty of 'rooted families'.  I guess that's what makes it nice for the 'wing spreaders'.

If your premise is that we should have a 50/50 ratio, then yes, I think it's likely we have more root spreaders, so more "should" spread their wings.  I'd venture to guess it's better for society to have more root spreaders overall though, but I couldn't venture to guess at what ratio.

I do agree that more people should be willing to spread their wings a little, even if rooted (i.e. long trips), or before being rooted, to get some perspective about the world.

As Mark Twain said:
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Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.
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actionjackson

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Re: Sell everything and become a Permanent Traveler?
« Reply #140 on: January 16, 2017, 02:49:36 PM »
Agree with most of those sentiments. As I mentioned, I've done long term travel - 13 months on the road. I met many people with grandiose ideas of how they were going to spend multiple years travelling. A lot of people who had plans to ride a bicycle around the world - that was a big one. I met very few however, that had been on the road >12 months.

I see myself doing multiple 6-18 months world trips in my life, with 3-5 year stints in single locations in between. That's more my style. Each to their own.

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Re: Sell everything and become a Permanent Traveler?
« Reply #141 on: January 16, 2017, 05:07:18 PM »
Actionjackson, could it be that traveling from country to country all the time is simply tiring in itself? I.e. you waste a lot of energy planning logistics, accomodation, finding where the grocery store is (:D), and you have less time for the rest. So after a while, you want to stay put and automate your lifestyle so you can focus on less trivial matters. You can still do that in a foreign country though. I could see relocation "costs" being worth it yearly or so.

actionjackson

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Re: Sell everything and become a Permanent Traveler?
« Reply #142 on: January 16, 2017, 07:17:27 PM »
Yeah, that pretty much hits the nail on the head. When you're constantly on the road - i.e. sleeping in a new place every 3-5 days, it get's tiring, you get pushed down Maslows hierarchy of needs, your day becomes consumed by things like, where will you sleep, where will you eat, where will you buy food etc. etc.

Your diet is going to fall by the wayside, it's really difficult to eat healthy while you're on the road.

Of course, you could move to a new place every 6-12 months and base yourself out of one location and do smaller trips to explore the area. In my mind, that's not really 'traveling' in the traditional sense though.

Itchyfeet

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Re: Sell everything and become a Permanent Traveler?
« Reply #143 on: January 16, 2017, 08:16:28 PM »
I used to think living in a new place every 3-6 months sounded great. That was until I became an expat. It really takes more than a year to feel a part of a community, and then moving after making good friends seems rather sad.

We will definitely be opting for a home base with trips < 1 year long in FIRE so we can maintain our sense of belonging.

The amount of need to belong is of course different for everyone. I guess I have found that I am rather needy:-)

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Re: Sell everything and become a Permanent Traveler?
« Reply #144 on: January 16, 2017, 08:39:03 PM »
I used to think living in a new place every 3-6 months sounded great. That was until I became an expat. It really takes more than a year to feel a part of a community, and then moving after making good friends seems rather sad.

We will definitely be opting for a home base with trips < 1 year long in FIRE so we can maintain our sense of belonging.

The amount of need to belong is of course different for everyone. I guess I have found that I am rather needy:-)

I was just thinking about that yesterday. I've been here for a little over a year now and finally have reached the point where I feel like I belong.  My dream used to be to travel constantly, but...I started having second thoughts.

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Re: Sell everything and become a Permanent Traveler?
« Reply #145 on: January 16, 2017, 08:49:35 PM »
I don't disagree with anything either of you are saying, about needing time to settle in a place and really explore it. I particularly feel that way to get to know a city.

Does it really matter whether you call it travel or not? It's just semantics.

Stay 3 - 5 days, stay 3 - 5 months, stay 3 - 5 years. Do what you need to do :)
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Re: Sell everything and become a Permanent Traveler?
« Reply #146 on: January 16, 2017, 09:42:43 PM »
I don't disagree with anything either of you are saying, about needing time to settle in a place and really explore it. I particularly feel that way to get to know a city.

Does it really matter whether you call it travel or not? It's just semantics.

Stay 3 - 5 days, stay 3 - 5 months, stay 3 - 5 years. Do what you need to do :)
+1.

And I'll add: Don't say that others choosing to do it differently are doing it wrong, or that their way is bad because X, Y, and Z.
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Re: Sell everything and become a Permanent Traveler?
« Reply #147 on: January 17, 2017, 12:25:46 PM »
I don't disagree with anything either of you are saying, about needing time to settle in a place and really explore it. I particularly feel that way to get to know a city.

Does it really matter whether you call it travel or not? It's just semantics.

Stay 3 - 5 days, stay 3 - 5 months, stay 3 - 5 years. Do what you need to do :)
+1.

And I'll add: Don't say that others choosing to do it differently are doing it wrong, or that their way is bad because X, Y, and Z.

Neither JLee nor I said anyone was wrong. And neither of our comments were a matter of semantics.

We were both merely commenting that after living abroad we (not you and not the OP) no longer envisaged that a life of permanent travel was what we (not you) now aspired to.

Absolutely each to ones own! Walk your own walk.

I already acknowledged that my needing to belong was bound to be more than others felt. I am sure there are plenty that feel that as long as they are with their one SO they have no need to maintain any regular face to face contact with others, particularly when maintaining relationships electronically is pretty effective.

actionjackson

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Re: Sell everything and become a Permanent Traveler?
« Reply #148 on: January 17, 2017, 11:00:51 PM »
I can't see where I insinuated everyone will have my experience.... my comments were pretty limited to my experience, and the experiences of people I've met on my travels.

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Re: Sell everything and become a Permanent Traveler?
« Reply #149 on: January 17, 2017, 11:16:44 PM »
I can't see where I insinuated everyone will have my experience.... my comments were pretty limited to my experience, and the experiences of people I've met on my travels.

This part does sound particularly disparaging to me, and doesn't come across as if you're just talking about yourself. Perhaps you were, in which case phrasing it differently would have conveyed your meaning more accurately, but as it stands:

When you wander, looking at things during casual travel, you tend to be just observing, rather than contributing to society in any meaningful way. I don't think that's a huge issue to do for a year or so, but to wander aimlessly for 5+ years, I mean, you're essentially just bumming around taking instagram photos.

Anyway, I personally think I am also more interested in a mix of a home base with longer-term travel, rather than the extreme ends of either spectrum, but I don't agree with stereotyping people who never travel, or those who continuously travel.