Author Topic: Why donít the rich stop working?  (Read 8619 times)

smoghat

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 239
Why donít the rich stop working?
« on: October 17, 2019, 08:54:58 PM »

mstr d

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 23
Re: Why donít the rich stop working?
« Reply #1 on: October 20, 2019, 11:54:27 PM »
The more money I have the safer I feel. More is better. Stil working after Fire :).

Linea_Norway

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 6458
  • Location: Norway
Re: Why donít the rich stop working?
« Reply #2 on: October 21, 2019, 02:52:30 AM »
Someone recently posted an interview that was done with truly rich people, net worth >25M $.

The really rich don't retire, because they have an anxiety that they still don't have enough stash. On average they want 20-25% more stash. They are also worried about their children and don't trust that their children will make good decisions about money. They can't control their children.

mrmoonymartian

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 212
  • Age: 38
  • Location: Brisbane
Re: Why donít the rich stop working?
« Reply #3 on: October 21, 2019, 03:16:19 AM »
Adam Smith:
"It is because mankind are disposed to sympathize more entirely with our joy than with our sorrow, that we make parade of our riches, and conceal our poverty.  Nothing is so mortifying as to be obliged to expose our distress to the view of the public, and to feel, that though our situation is open to the eyes of all mankind, no mortal conceives for us the half of what we suffer.  Nay, it is chiefly from this regard to the sentiments of mankind, that we pursue riches and avoid poverty.  For to what purpose is all the toil and bustle of this world?  What is the end of avarice and ambition, of the pursuit of wealth, of power, and preheminence?  Is it to supply the necessities of nature?  The wages of the meanest labourer can supply them. ... To be observed, to be attended to, to be taken notice of with sympathy, complacency, and approbation, are all the advantages which we can propose to derive from it.  It is the vanity, not the ease, or the pleasure, which interests us.  But vanity is always founded upon the belief of our being the object of attention and approbation."

newloginuser

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 65
Re: Why donít the rich stop working?
« Reply #4 on: October 21, 2019, 07:23:07 AM »
I don't know anyone with over $25MM so this is pure speculation, if you work a job that pays that much, why would you give it up? I would assume you either works so long to get to that point, or you work in a field where you could be replaced at any moment and no longer get that income. Or you own your own business, in which case I'm guessing the stress level and demand isn't that great if you can pull in that sort of money annually.

RWD

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3957
  • Location: Mississippi
Re: Why donít the rich stop working?
« Reply #5 on: October 21, 2019, 09:04:25 AM »
Quote
One recent Harvard survey of 4,000 millionaires found that people worth $8 million or more were scarcely happier than those worth $1 million.

Very interesting. I guess this is sort of the net worth equivalent of diminishing returns of happiness for higher incomes.

nereo

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 11820
  • Location: Just south of Canada
    • Here's how you can support science today:
Re: Why donít the rich stop working?
« Reply #6 on: October 21, 2019, 09:29:04 AM »
I don't know anyone with over $25MM so this is pure speculation, if you work a job that pays that much, why would you give it up? I would assume you either works so long to get to that point, or you work in a field where you could be replaced at any moment and no longer get that income. Or you own your own business, in which case I'm guessing the stress level and demand isn't that great if you can pull in that sort of money annually.

Because your time alive is finite, the amount you have left is at best a guess and most people work for money so they can pay to do other things.

In other words, the whole underlying premise of this forum. 

Once you have ďenoughĒ it shouldnít matter whether your job pays $1MM/year or $10/hour.  You are then trading your time (which you have ever less of) for money (which you have ever less need for).  Of course many people find additional value through their jobs, which may being a ďproductive member of societyĒ or ďmaking a differenceĒ.  If your job fits that description and you enjoy doing it, all the more power to you to keep working.  But for many, many others, they have conflated their identity of self with their job title.  When that happens they equate quitting the job with quitting who they are, which is just sad and erroneous.

OMY syndrome seems to high high earners harder than lower wage people, precisely because another year could bring in a substantial amount of additional money, which can always be spent on something (a third vacation home? A yacht?).  But ultimately they have less time and more money

ROF Expat

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 221
Re: Why donít the rich stop working?
« Reply #7 on: October 21, 2019, 11:35:19 AM »
I have friends and acquaintances who most people would characterize as very wealthy who continue working far beyond any "need" to do so.  In some cases, they love their work.  Some feel compelled to continue to build generational businesses that they inherited.  Some simply like challenges.  Some want their children to see them working to underscore their expectation that they will work and contribute rather than simply inherit money and a life of luxury. 

newloginuser

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 65
Re: Why donít the rich stop working?
« Reply #8 on: October 21, 2019, 12:45:36 PM »
I don't know anyone with over $25MM so this is pure speculation, if you work a job that pays that much, why would you give it up? I would assume you either works so long to get to that point, or you work in a field where you could be replaced at any moment and no longer get that income. Or you own your own business, in which case I'm guessing the stress level and demand isn't that great if you can pull in that sort of money annually.

Because your time alive is finite, the amount you have left is at best a guess and most people work for money so they can pay to do other things.

In other words, the whole underlying premise of this forum. 

Once you have ďenoughĒ it shouldnít matter whether your job pays $1MM/year or $10/hour.  You are then trading your time (which you have ever less of) for money (which you have ever less need for).  Of course many people find additional value through their jobs, which may being a ďproductive member of societyĒ or ďmaking a differenceĒ.  If your job fits that description and you enjoy doing it, all the more power to you to keep working.  But for many, many others, they have conflated their identity of self with their job title.  When that happens they equate quitting the job with quitting who they are, which is just sad and erroneous.

OMY syndrome seems to high high earners harder than lower wage people, precisely because another year could bring in a substantial amount of additional money, which can always be spent on something (a third vacation home? A yacht?).  But ultimately they have less time and more money

Sorry if my post wasn't clear. I do understand why people quit a job due to the finite amount of time. My overarching point was I would believe a greater population of people who make a 7 figure income or the super wealthy enjoy what they do, and wouldn't stop just because they have enough.

I'm sure to some degree, these people like to buy nicer things than is "needed". Like others have pointed out, some may be in a family business or inherited or have kids and want to show you can't just take life easy. If you work in corporate America or tech or healthcare or any other field where you make a significant income, I would think it took you quite some time to get there, and don't want to just "quit" after one year of finally making it. Also like you pointed out, I'm sure "one more year" sets in every year. But I bet life style inflation comes with it too.

EndlessJourney

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 153
  • Location: No Fixed Address (formerly Toronto)
  • Nomad? Yes, Mad!
    • 7 Years Round the World by Motorcycle
Re: Why donít the rich stop working?
« Reply #9 on: October 21, 2019, 01:11:05 PM »
I think a lot of people who are ultra high net worth individuals come by it by starting their own business.

So there's a lot more pride, investment, ownership and identity involved in the work than someone who just punches a clock and gets compensated for sitting in cubicle.

Easy to see how it's hard to sell or let go of control something you may have built from scratch, especially if it's become that successful that it's made you very wealthy. I can totally understand wanting to continue pushing the ball further up the hill, to ultimately see how far you can get it.

It's not even about the money at that point.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2019, 01:13:05 PM by EndlessJourney »

nancyfrank232

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 227
Re: Why donít the rich stop working?
« Reply #10 on: October 21, 2019, 06:35:49 PM »
Some people love what they do

They want to give more to their family, charity and society

If a person works for money, they will quit as soon as they feel that they have enough

Some accomplishments are bigger than money

norajean

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 194
Re: Why donít the rich stop working?
« Reply #11 on: October 21, 2019, 06:50:03 PM »
Self-made rich people are great at what they do and very competitive.  The money is just a way of keeping score.  They are always competing against better players who have a higher score, urging them on.  Most work happily until at least 80. To retire would be to admit defeat and to also lose their favorite activity.  It is a different lifestyle to being a downtrodden wage slave, stuck in a cubicle, the hobnail boot of upper management constantly on your throat.

Hikester

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 51
Re: Why donít the rich stop working?
« Reply #12 on: October 21, 2019, 10:29:15 PM »
Itís probably because humans are wired in a way that losing something is way more emotionally difficult than gaining something. The more you have to lose the more you are held back by the golden handcuffs. Itís the opposite of true freedom but not quitting provides psychological safety in your mind. That is why OMY syndrome is so common. Giving up a high salary is much harder than a $10 an hour job.

LoanShark

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 54
Re: Why donít the rich stop working?
« Reply #13 on: October 22, 2019, 03:13:32 PM »
I don't know anyone with over $25MM so this is pure speculation, if you work a job that pays that much, why would you give it up? I would assume you either works so long to get to that point, or you work in a field where you could be replaced at any moment and no longer get that income. Or you own your own business, in which case I'm guessing the stress level and demand isn't that great if you can pull in that sort of money annually.

Because your time alive is finite, the amount you have left is at best a guess and most people work for money so they can pay to do other things.

In other words, the whole underlying premise of this forum. 

Once you have ďenoughĒ it shouldnít matter whether your job pays $1MM/year or $10/hour.  You are then trading your time (which you have ever less of) for money (which you have ever less need for).  Of course many people find additional value through their jobs, which may being a ďproductive member of societyĒ or ďmaking a differenceĒ.  If your job fits that description and you enjoy doing it, all the more power to you to keep working.  But for many, many others, they have conflated their identity of self with their job title.  When that happens they equate quitting the job with quitting who they are, which is just sad and erroneous.

OMY syndrome seems to high high earners harder than lower wage people, precisely because another year could bring in a substantial amount of additional money, which can always be spent on something (a third vacation home? A yacht?).  But ultimately they have less time and more money

Needed this reminder. Gracias!

nancyfrank232

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 227
Why donít the rich stop working?
« Reply #14 on: October 22, 2019, 06:05:10 PM »
I don't know anyone with over $25MM so this is pure speculation, if you work a job that pays that much, why would you give it up? I would assume you either works so long to get to that point, or you work in a field where you could be replaced at any moment and no longer get that income. Or you own your own business, in which case I'm guessing the stress level and demand isn't that great if you can pull in that sort of money annually.

I know a few individuals that have over $25MM and from that small sample size I can say that theyíre extremely passionate at what they do, work crazy hard, and strongly believe that their company provides a significant benefit to society

If someone wants to keep contributing to society well beyond financial need, it should be celebrated. Unless there is a deep-seated insecurity, thereís absolutely no reason to put a less-than-positive outlook on it.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2019, 06:16:29 PM by nancyfrank232 »

maizeman

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4294
Re: Why donít the rich stop working?
« Reply #15 on: October 22, 2019, 07:36:19 PM »
OMY syndrome seems to high high earners harder than lower wage people, precisely because another year could bring in a substantial amount of additional money, which can always be spent on something (a third vacation home? A yacht?).  But ultimately they have less time and more money

I agree that OMY syndrome hits high earners harder, but I think it has less to do with wanting to buy extra things and more to do with the ratio of how long it's take to turn $X before they retire, and how long it'd take for them to earn the same $X after they retired (if they ever had to return to work because it turned out they hadn't saved enough).

For a person earning $40k/year ($20/hour), it may be easier use the the "well if I hit a sequence of returns issue I'm get a part time job earning $12/hour at target/starbucks etc" as an effective way to combat fear than for a person earning $160k/year ($80/hour).

Instead too many high earning people seem fall into the trap of trying to push for lower and lower withdrawal rates as their way to insure against sequence of returns risk.

nancyfrank232

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 227
Why donít the rich stop working?
« Reply #16 on: October 22, 2019, 08:48:06 PM »
Itís improbable that a person earning an hourly or annual wage  will become a HNWI

Itís alway OMY for wage earners
« Last Edit: October 22, 2019, 08:52:16 PM by nancyfrank232 »

ROF Expat

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 221
Re: Why donít the rich stop working?
« Reply #17 on: October 23, 2019, 12:47:33 AM »
Itís improbable that a person earning an hourly or annual wage  will become a HNWI

Itís alway OMY for wage earners

I guess you are correct that it is "improbable" since most people haven't done it, I disagree that it is always omy for wage earners. 

To my mind, it is surprising that we don't have a lot more HNWIs in America.  If you go by the fairly standard definition of $1M investable, reaching that point has long been doable for wage-earners in America.  In 1969, median household income was around $9,400.  If a person invested 10% of that salary the first year and then $940 a year, it would likely have become a million investable by now, when the person might be 68 years old.  And that assumes never increasing investments with wage increases, and never having any windfall (like a modest inheritance). 

People with steady, halfway decent jobs, who refuse to get on the consumer treadmill and who invest wisely almost can't help but become HNWI at some point.  This forum is filled with people who have done it or are in the process of doing it.  The Millionaire Next Door is worth reading if you haven't done so. 


marty998

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 6697
  • Location: Sydney, Oz
Re: Why donít the rich stop working?
« Reply #18 on: October 23, 2019, 04:07:36 AM »
Itís improbable that a person earning an hourly or annual wage  will become a HNWI

Itís alway OMY for wage earners

I guess you are correct that it is "improbable" since most people haven't done it, I disagree that it is always omy for wage earners. 

To my mind, it is surprising that we don't have a lot more HNWIs in America.  If you go by the fairly standard definition of $1M investable, reaching that point has long been doable for wage-earners in America.  In 1969, median household income was around $9,400.  If a person invested 10% of that salary the first year and then $940 a year, it would likely have become a million investable by now, when the person might be 68 years old.  And that assumes never increasing investments with wage increases, and never having any windfall (like a modest inheritance). 

People with steady, halfway decent jobs, who refuse to get on the consumer treadmill and who invest wisely almost can't help but become HNWI at some point.  This forum is filled with people who have done it or are in the process of doing it.  The Millionaire Next Door is worth reading if you haven't done so.

Corporate America has never failed to invent a "want" and then then sell the product to solve that want to the public. So you might find that the $940 a year mysteriously gets diverted into the thin air....

RAchip

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 1
Re: Why donít the rich stop working?
« Reply #19 on: November 29, 2019, 08:43:39 AM »
My net wort is over $25mm.  I pretty much quit working 3 years ago (at 52).  I was making $1-3mm/ year than I had a truly massive year with a big business deal.  It seemed to me that the incremental benefit of continuing to slave away was not worth it.  Working and paying over 50% of what you make to the govt was very disheartening to me.  I still ďworkĒ in the sense that I manage my money myself and have a big family that I oversee.

soccerluvof4

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5786
  • Location: Artic Midwest
  • Retired at 50
    • My Journal
Re: Why donít the rich stop working?
« Reply #20 on: December 04, 2019, 06:32:28 AM »
^ I am sure its different in everyones scenario that has that kind of money. I would expect that in most part they have people running there day to day operations and are continually doing the fun part and looking into other investments to build there empire. I know people that have done that with alot less. Its the start up thats the fun part if/when it succeeds.

talltexan

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3059
Re: Why donít the rich stop working?
« Reply #21 on: December 04, 2019, 07:15:09 AM »
@RAchip , if I may ask:

  • Are you an outlier among your friends, or do you have other friends with a net worth approaching yours?
  • Do they feel the same way about the taxes you do (that continued work is not really worth it)?
  • (I assume most of this NW is in some form of business) What steps are you taking to diversify your NW?

freya

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 468
Re: Why donít the rich stop working?
« Reply #22 on: December 04, 2019, 07:57:05 AM »
Interesting article.

I agree that it's a totally different situation for entrepreneurs who hold responsibility for and/or own a successful business, and employees working for a wage.  There are certainly high paying jobs that can result in high net worths. The NY times article completely ignored this latter group.  When the article talks about people continuing to work despite being financially independent, they are thinking of jobs as they used to exist 20 years ago - not the ones that exist now.  In some ways, the deterioration in job "quality of life" has been much worse at the high end of the pay scale.

Academic medicine (where I am) used to be a pleasant and fairly low-stress environment, with time for scholarly pursuits and a largely self-directed career trajectory.  In return, you accepted a relatively low income compared to working in the private arena.  And, you could count on working into your 80s and enjoying it, with your responsibilities gradually evolving toward mentoring and scholarly activity, and away from day to day tasks.  This has changed.  The pay has gone up, but the pressure to produce, the administrative burdens, and incidents of poor treatment from on high, have gone up astronomically.  Continuing to work as you age is no longer realistic, and burnout is rampant.  Many, however, are hanging on and don't quite understand that the world they signed up for no longer exists.

The FIRE movement and the shift toward entrepreneurship are the antidotes to this general trend of crappy treatment of employees.  I just feel sorry for the people who believe so deeply that life-long work is what we were made for, that they're unable to adjust to the new reality.

maizeman

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4294
Re: Why donít the rich stop working?
« Reply #23 on: December 04, 2019, 10:48:58 AM »
Academic medicine (where I am) used to be a pleasant and fairly low-stress environment, with time for scholarly pursuits and a largely self-directed career trajectory.  In return, you accepted a relatively low income compared to working in the private arena.  And, you could count on working into your 80s and enjoying it, with your responsibilities gradually evolving toward mentoring and scholarly activity, and away from day to day tasks.  This has changed.  The pay has gone up, but the pressure to produce, the administrative burdens, and incidents of poor treatment from on high, have gone up astronomically.  Continuing to work as you age is no longer realistic, and burnout is rampant.  Many, however, are hanging on and don't quite understand that the world they signed up for no longer exists.

A friend's mother is in the same boat (senior physician at a university run med school/hospital) so has lots of horror stories to tell about poor treatment and unrealistic expectations. While the pay is quite good they have almost nothing saved as it was assumed she'd be able to continue to work the same job until retirement age and a lot of money had been going to support family outside the country -- first generation immigrants. Feeling trapped and having to grit your teeth and take poor treatment is a miserable situation. I'm sorry.

smoghat

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 239
Re: Why donít the rich stop working?
« Reply #24 on: December 04, 2019, 09:01:18 PM »
Very, very few people are irreplaceable. Take Steve Jobs, he seemed irreplaceable but he was. But the people who continue to work, long past their prime, use up resources that likely could be much better allocated.

I used to teach at a university prior to FIRE. I was done at age 48 when I had the money to FIRE. But thereís one clown with a British accent who is nearly 90 years old and he still teaches there. My hunch is he makes well north of $200,000 a year, which could employ three starting professors. He hasnít been on his game in twenty years and even then, never was all that. But the millennials love him because he is a symbol of another generation. Great. But his presence prevents better faculty from taking his place. If he wanted to contribute, he could write some books. But he always was a terrible writer, so I guess thatís why he keeps working.

nancyfrank232

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 227
Why donít the rich stop working?
« Reply #25 on: December 04, 2019, 10:02:29 PM »
Very, very few people are irreplaceable. Take Steve Jobs, he seemed irreplaceable but he was. But the people who continue to work, long past their prime, use up resources that likely could be much better allocated.

I used to teach at a university prior to FIRE. I was done at age 48 when I had the money to FIRE. But thereís one clown with a British accent who is nearly 90 years old and he still teaches there. My hunch is he makes well north of $200,000 a year, which could employ three starting professors. He hasnít been on his game in twenty years and even then, never was all that. But the millennials love him because he is a symbol of another generation. Great. But his presence prevents better faculty from taking his place. If he wanted to contribute, he could write some books. But he always was a terrible writer, so I guess thatís why he keeps working.

If he wants to work let him work

Co-workers used to say the same about me when I worked and had a NW of $5m

I do what I want and Iím glad this senior professor does the same. If there was faculty that is better than him then they should be able to take his place. The market says otherwise. Donít hate the player, hate the game
« Last Edit: December 04, 2019, 10:22:02 PM by nancyfrank232 »

nancyfrank232

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 227
Re: Why donít the rich stop working?
« Reply #26 on: December 04, 2019, 10:24:13 PM »
My net wort is over $25mm.  I pretty much quit working 3 years ago (at 52).  I was making $1-3mm/ year than I had a truly massive year with a big business deal.  It seemed to me that the incremental benefit of continuing to slave away was not worth it.  Working and paying over 50% of what you make to the govt was very disheartening to me.  I still ďworkĒ in the sense that I manage my money myself and have a big family that I oversee.

Thatís awesome!

Congrats!

Telecaster

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2189
  • Location: Seattle, WA
Re: Why donít the rich stop working?
« Reply #27 on: December 04, 2019, 10:53:52 PM »
The mindset of making your nut and then checking out of the workforce is extremely rare.  If people are good at what they do and are successful, they tend to continue doing those same things.   Similar in a lot of ways to people with FIRE with a high net worth, but continue the frugal habits that allowed them to FIRE in the first place. 

freya

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 468
Re: Why donít the rich stop working?
« Reply #28 on: December 05, 2019, 08:34:05 AM »
A friend's mother is in the same boat (senior physician at a university run med school/hospital) so has lots of horror stories to tell about poor treatment and unrealistic expectations. While the pay is quite good they have almost nothing saved as it was assumed she'd be able to continue to work the same job until retirement age and a lot of money had been going to support family outside the country -- first generation immigrants. Feeling trapped and having to grit your teeth and take poor treatment is a miserable situation. I'm sorry.

Sorry to hear about your friend's mother.  So many of my colleagues are in similar situations, although for less altruistic reasons (e.g. choosing to live in a very expensive suburb and keeping up with the Joneses).  She could however turn things around and at least put a ticking clock on the number of years that she has to put up with with this.  You could also point her to Dropout Club, which is a forum for physicians who are looking for alternative jobs & careers.

I'm lucky actually...I got into research where life is decidedly better, and of course am well positioned to quit when I want.   The people I feel sorry for are my nieces who are just entering the workforce now.  I suspect that what's happened with medicine is not unique to that field. I think awareness of FIRE is practically a necessity for them.

maizeman

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4294
Re: Why donít the rich stop working?
« Reply #29 on: December 05, 2019, 08:37:31 AM »
Will pass on the link to the dropout club, thanks!

Gone Fishing

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2784
  • So Close went fishing on April 1, 2016
    • Journal
Re: Why donít the rich stop working?
« Reply #30 on: February 10, 2020, 02:52:06 PM »
"I'd trade it all, for just a little bit more."

-Montgomery Burns
« Last Edit: February 10, 2020, 03:06:59 PM by Gone Fishing »

greg_atlanta

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 1
  • Age: 47
  • Location: Atlanta
Re: Why donít the rich stop working?
« Reply #31 on: February 10, 2020, 09:00:10 PM »
Because they have no life outside of work.  Or they're avoiding their life by hiding behind their work.

MrThatsDifferent

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1771
Re: Why donít the rich stop working?
« Reply #32 on: February 10, 2020, 09:27:07 PM »
For some passion, and for many: insecurity and greed.

Chris Pascale

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 239
Re: Why donít the rich stop working?
« Reply #33 on: March 02, 2020, 02:51:24 PM »
The criticism of those who work is such an odd thing. I mean, how long can you sip rum punch? Obviously, we should find out, but unless you're committed to drowning in the things, or reaching a mortally diabetic state from them, you're gonna want something constructive to do.

My favorite example is Hank Aaron. In his baseball career, which ended in the 70's, Aaron made about $1,000,000! Many people today will agree they could live forever on that amount, especially with what CD and bond rates were back then. Aaron invested - not sure how the deal was structured (perhaps he just lent his name and physical presence at a down payment) - into a car dealership in Atlanta so that he'd have an income producing asset.

Is Hank Aaron a greedy moron who, as the NYT posits about the working rich, is "afraid to face his existence"?

talltexan

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3059
Re: Why donít the rich stop working?
« Reply #34 on: March 02, 2020, 03:07:33 PM »
On a scale of Allen Iverson to Magic Johnson, how would you rate Aaron's success at turning his meager athletic earnings (they would have doubled were he born ten years later) into business achievement?

spartana

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1169
  • FIREd at 36? Or maybe it was 42?
Re: Why don’t the rich stop working?
« Reply #35 on: March 05, 2020, 02:40:54 PM »
The criticism of those who work is such an odd thing. I mean, how long can you sip rum punch? Obviously, we should find out, but unless you're committed to drowning in the things, or reaching a mortally diabetic state from them, you're gonna want something constructive to do.

My favorite example is Hank Aaron. In his baseball career, which ended in the 70's, Aaron made about $1,000,000! Many people today will agree they could live forever on that amount, especially with what CD and bond rates were back then. Aaron invested - not sure how the deal was structured (perhaps he just lent his name and physical presence at a down payment) - into a car dealership in Atlanta so that he'd have an income producing asset.

Is Hank Aaron a greedy moron who, as the NYT posits about the working rich, is "afraid to face his existence"?
Is that what retirement is suppose to be like? Well damn, I guess I've been doing it all wrong.

Lots of people regardless of wealth or income want to continue working because they find meaning and purpose in the jobs. This includes low earners who love their profession just as it does the billionaires. Lots of people regardless of wealth or income want to retire because they can find more meaning and purpose in their life once job-free. And yes, also have some fun and a few midweek midday cocktails at a beach bar on occasion too ;-).

Fomerly known as something

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 872
  • Location: Midwest
Re: Why donít the rich stop working?
« Reply #36 on: March 06, 2020, 05:16:53 AM »
Also, I think with the wealthy, their life truly intersects with their work. Take President Trump (pre election), he flys down to Mar a Lago to golf for the weekend.  He leaves at noon on Thursday.  Has some meetings while golfing or having dinner at his club Friday to Monday and flys back to NY Monday night.  Heís working the whole time but not in the same manner that I am going to my office M-F.

skip207

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 346
  • Location: UK
Re: Why donít the rich stop working?
« Reply #37 on: March 07, 2020, 01:53:15 AM »
I think people who work normal or normal ish jobs who are wealthy and could retire and live a very nice lifestyle don't see the value in their own time.  IMHO.

You get one life and each day is of value, every day you work you are basically chipping value off your time on this earth.  Will money make the remaining days "better"?  Maybe.  Maybe not.

There is also a curve where IMHO you get past the ability to retire and it just seems better to carry on.  I know a few people like this, they run their own business hands on, on the tools etc and they get to about 60, look at their life and think oh well this is all I know and they carry on.  Before you know it they are 70 and still going.  Money becomes less important to them and does not really have a value.  As such they often drop the ball when it comes to business and they end up doing stuff cheaper than they should and the result is they end up spending their own money to keep working.

I know one guy who is exaclty in this situation right now.  65 ish, business is not great but he does not want to stop so he is propping the place up.  He works for nothing, spends a fortune keeping the place going and could easily buy a nice villa somewhere warn and actually be better off financially.  I see it as sad tbh.  He could have retired at 50 but carried on.

I dont want to fall into that trap.  OMY on loop forever?  No thanks.

The *really* wealthy who "work" don't really work.  They schlep around on private jets and generally have several high level execs actually running their business / businesses in the background.  For them its a lifestyle, in fact a lot of their "work" is just a tax dodge.  That private jet flight from London to New York is of course for business purposes.... cough.


Malkynn

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2673
Re: Why donít the rich stop working?
« Reply #38 on: March 07, 2020, 07:19:10 AM »
The *really* wealthy who "work" don't really work.  They schlep around on private jets and generally have several high level execs actually running their business / businesses in the background.  For them its a lifestyle, in fact a lot of their "work" is just a tax dodge.  That private jet flight from London to New York is of course for business purposes.... cough.

I know a lot of people in that situation and that's kind of what it's like, but not the whole picture. Yes, it's definitely a lifestyle, but at a certain level your personal life becomes so inextricably enmeshed in your business that your lifestyle *is* your professional work and vice versa.

I do a lot of consulting in that world, and the line between my friends my clients and my colleagues is so blurred, it's almost non existent. There is no work/personal separation for me, and that's what I see among the CEO/President set that I know in my world.

Chris Pascale

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 239
Re: Why donít the rich stop working?
« Reply #39 on: March 08, 2020, 08:01:05 PM »
On a scale of Allen Iverson to Magic Johnson, how would you rate Aaron's success at turning his meager athletic earnings (they would have doubled were he born ten years later) into business achievement?

Not being well-versed on the Iverson:Johnson metric, I have to defer.

Aaron had a pretty good interview some years back where he was asked what he thought he'd make if he was playing in the 2000's. In the past he'd always been pretty humble, like when asked about Barry Bonds HR stats. He claimed it wasn't for him to say anything about Bonds breaking his records, even if by some guy who at the end of his career was cracking homers into Jupiter when he wasn't nearly that great of a HR hitter in his youth.

In the one I'm thinking of the reporter asked Aaron what he'd be paid; he said at least what A-Rod made. The reporter was surprised and clarified that A-Rod was the highest paid player. Aaron didn't straight-up say, "I'm the greatest player who ever lived," but he did point out some things that said he was perhaps better than A-Rod.

Looking at his hits, HRs and batting avg., it seems obvious.

Chris Pascale

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 239
Re: Why donít the rich stop working?
« Reply #40 on: March 08, 2020, 08:02:22 PM »
The criticism of those who work is such an odd thing. I mean, how long can you sip rum punch? Obviously, we should find out.



Is that what retirement is suppose to be like? Well damn, I guess I've been doing it all wrong.

Lots of people regardless of wealth or income want to continue working because they find meaning and purpose in the jobs. This includes low earners who love their profession just as it does the billionaires. Lots of people regardless of wealth or income want to retire because they can find more meaning and purpose in their life once job-free. And yes, also have some fun and a few midweek midday cocktails at a beach bar on occasion too ;-).

It's not too late! You can live your life right!

spartana

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1169
  • FIREd at 36? Or maybe it was 42?
Re: Why donít the rich stop working?
« Reply #41 on: March 09, 2020, 05:28:09 PM »
The criticism of those who work is such an odd thing. I mean, how long can you sip rum punch? Obviously, we should find out.



Is that what retirement is suppose to be like? Well damn, I guess I've been doing it all wrong.

Lots of people regardless of wealth or income want to continue working because they find meaning and purpose in the jobs. This includes low earners who love their profession just as it does the billionaires. Lots of people regardless of wealth or income want to retire because they can find more meaning and purpose in their life once job-free. And yes, also have some fun and a few midweek midday cocktails at a beach bar on occasion too ;-).

It's not too late! You can live your life right!
Well I do have TGIM morning mimosas on the beach after volleyball so I guess I'm on the right path to decadence. Now to work on.the debauchery!

John Galt incarnate!

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1041
  • Location: On Cloud Nine
Re: Why donít the rich stop working?
« Reply #42 on: March 09, 2020, 05:58:18 PM »
Itís probably because humans are wired in a way that losing something is way more emotionally difficult than gaining something.

'Tis true.

 When  the value of one's portfolio declines significantly, the intensity of their unhappy feelings is 2.3-2.5 X the intensity of their happy feelings when the value of their portfolio rises significantly.

talltexan

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3059
Re: Why donít the rich stop working?
« Reply #43 on: March 10, 2020, 07:29:51 AM »
On a scale of Allen Iverson to Magic Johnson, how would you rate Aaron's success at turning his meager athletic earnings (they would have doubled were he born ten years later) into business achievement?

Not being well-versed on the Iverson:Johnson metric, I have to defer.

Aaron had a pretty good interview some years back where he was asked what he thought he'd make if he was playing in the 2000's. In the past he'd always been pretty humble, like when asked about Barry Bonds HR stats. He claimed it wasn't for him to say anything about Bonds breaking his records, even if by some guy who at the end of his career was cracking homers into Jupiter when he wasn't nearly that great of a HR hitter in his youth.

In the one I'm thinking of the reporter asked Aaron what he'd be paid; he said at least what A-Rod made. The reporter was surprised and clarified that A-Rod was the highest paid player. Aaron didn't straight-up say, "I'm the greatest player who ever lived," but he did point out some things that said he was perhaps better than A-Rod.

Looking at his hits, HRs and batting avg., it seems obvious.

Why is it strange for the best player to make the most money?

The A-Rod contract in 2000 was an outlier, yes, but the way the sport has grown (revenue-wise) is a different world compared to 1950-1973 (when Aaron was playing)