Author Topic: Potential of becoming a target of robbery, kidnapping, or worse during FIRE  (Read 7556 times)

Herbert Derp

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This article got me thinking:
https://nyti.ms/2C71Sm3

It's not just about cryptocurrencies. The point is, anyone with significant assets can become a target of robbery or kidnapping. In my opinion, this is especially a problem with FIREd people who travel and live in foreign countries for extended periods of time, and even more so if you also blog or discuss your FIRE on the internet.

That being said, how do you feel about the importance of:

1. Keeping your real identity, location, and FIRE status a secret to people on the public internet--who knows what kind of people are reading your public internet posts?
2. Keeping your location and FIRE status a secret to people on Facebook or other social media--information shared on Facebook has been known to be exploited by robbers and thieves.
3. Keeping your FIRE status a secret to people you meet in real life--especially when living in foreign countries, would you feel safe if people knew about how rich you were?

I know there are bloggers and some posters around here who've shared quite a bit more about their identity and whereabouts than I would ever feel comfortable sharing. If you have shared information in this way, what are your thoughts?

Personally, I think I need to be very careful about what I share about myself, especially when traveling abroad. Getting kidnapped and held for ransom is no joke.

Should I go incognito and adopt a cover story when living abroad? Poor college student? Poor English teacher? Digital nomad scraping by on meager earnings? Just taking an extended vacation and burning through a few thousand dollars of savings?

If I want to live openly while traveling abroad, do I have no choice but to cower in fear of the locals and stick to "safe" areas of town? Honestly, that's no way for me to live.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2018, 12:51:41 AM by Herbert Derp »

Mmm_Donuts

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I am very leery of posting anything personal online, anywhere. Most if not all of the wealthy people I know are not on Facebook and do not use social media. One friend told me not to post any pics of her place myself while visiting her. There is definitely a concern.

I am also somewhat concerned about lawsuits. Once people are aware of wealth they may want to take advantage of it. Recently a neighbour slipped on our sidewalk and asked another neighbour if we were nice people. As if looking for permission for a reason to sue us? Not sure. Insurance could be helpful in this regard; maybe for identity theft as well.

I definitely practice stealth wealth while traveling. I like the poor nomadic developer story - that would be pretty easy to pull off because Iím sure itís very common.

In terms of how I am in real life while not traveling - I also keep a stealth wealth attitude. I dress in second hand clothing, take public transit, donít wear jewelry, etc. Nobody would ever suspect Iím FI unless I told them, and the only people who are aware of our situation are my close family (parents and sibling) and husband.

Now that Iím thinking about these things - I used to think it was admirable for my significantly wealthy friends not to have showy cars or houses, clothes or jewelry. As there are many wealthy people in this city and a lot of them do that! But now I realize they are really concerned about being sued, robbed, or threatened in some way, and that those fears are far stronger than any need to show off their wealth. I now get it. I am not nearly as wealthy but certainly donít want anyone to know the significant assets we have. Partly for fear of being sued but mainly I donít want to be treated differently. Most people I know are either stealth wealth or really dislike wealthy people. So itís something to keep on the down low either way.

Gimesalot

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It's not just about cryptocurrencies. The point is, anyone with significant assets can become a target of robbery or kidnapping. In my opinion, this is especially a problem with FIREd people who travel and live in foreign countries for extended periods of time, and even more so if you also blog or discuss your FIRE on the internet.

Actually, crytocurrency makes a huge difference because there is no ability to trace the transactions.  That's why the people mentioned in the article were targets.  I have heard kidnappings happening to a few people, but usually they are forced to go to atms and withdraw their daily maximum.

Personally, I think I need to be very careful about what I share about myself, especially when traveling abroad. Getting kidnapped and held for ransom is no joke.

Should I go incognito and adopt a cover story when living abroad? Poor college student? Poor English teacher? Digital nomad scraping by on meager earnings? Just taking an extended vacation and burning through a few thousand dollars of savings?

If I want to live openly while traveling abroad, do I have no choice but to cower in fear of the locals and stick to "safe" areas of town? Honestly, that's no way for me to live.

Honestly, I have traveled far and wide and have never had this concern.  I avoid areas that are known to be full of criminal activity (shanty towns, favelas, villas, etc.) but not all local neighborhoods.  When traveling, I wear normal street clothes, stay at local apartments, take normal transportation (no limos with blacked out windows).  Actually, we normally have the opposite issue, we have gold status with one airline, and we are normally assumed to be in the wrong line.  In a few situations, I have changed the language I speak to my advantage, but that is extremely rare.  Also, no one, in a foreign country, has asked me how I can afford to travel.  It's only been close friends and family.  Only my parents know that we are FIRE.  Everyone else knows we have money for a very frugal lifestyle for a year or two, so $50k.

SwordGuy

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In most places in the world, if you are someone from the USA or other western countries, you are already a millionaire by their standards.

My wife, who has an income of $20k via social security, makes over 62 times the per capita income of a person in Malawi.
Someone who held her for ransom for 1/2  her annual social security income could qualify to FIRE at 31 times average income.

So, really, I wouldn't worry extra all that much.


StockBeard

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I don't think it makes statistical sense to be worried about being kidnapped for ransom, unless your name and face appear on the news very regularly like Elon Musk, Bill Gates, Jeff Bezos, etc...

TartanTallulah

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Even in a state of FIRE, I won't be worth anything financially to a kidnapper; most of my income will be from a DB pension rather than from a lump sum that can be accessed to pay a ransom, and I suspect my family would just go, "Oh, OK, you can have her," and get on with their lives. In a good way.

I'm not particularly secretive about my real identity on the internet, and the prospect of FIRE wouldn't motivate me to conceal my identity, whereas if I wanted to become an opinion leader in my profession I'd be a lot more circumspect about social media and the like.

avrex

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Potential of becoming a target of robbery, kidnapping, or worse during FIRE
- Robbery (low probability, some loss of assets)
- Kidnapping (low probability, some loss of assets)

- or worse?   What could be worse?  Oh, perhaps....

- Litigation.  (higher probability than the above two.  High loss of assets.  In fact, you could end up bankrupt.)

GuitarStv

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This is where it really pays to live a simple lifestyle.

My wife and I joke about this sometimes.  If someone broke into our home and robbed us . . . what would they take?  No expensive jewelry, we have a single ten year old TV (and it's not all that big), we have a couple computers that are 5+ years old.  Even our crazy extravagant stuff isn't really all that expensive . . . I've got a road bike worth about 800$, a guitar worth about 800$, a guitar amp worth about a grand (all these prices are to buy brand new ones).  We have a nice high efficiency furnace, nice windows in our home, and solar panels on the roof . . . but those aren't really portable.

We drive a 10+ year old Toyota Corolla, and I rarely wear anything more dressy than jeans and a t-shirt.

If you don't flaunt wealth, there's not much reason to suspect that someone is wealthy.  If you don't seem to be wealthy, then you're unlikely to be targeted for kidnapping and robbery (and if robbery happens . . . meh, just give 'em what they want and replace the stuff).

TartanTallulah

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Potential of becoming a target of robbery, kidnapping, or worse during FIRE
- Robbery (low probability, some loss of assets)
- Kidnapping (low probability, some loss of assets)

- or worse?   What could be worse?  Oh, perhaps....

- Litigation.  (higher probability than the above two.  High loss of assets.  In fact, you could end up bankrupt.)

That's where the Stoicism that plays a big part in Mustachian philosophy comes into its own.

furrychickens

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I think @avrex added the much more likely risk, litigation within our own home countries, not kidnapping abroad. I recently put the kibosh on further development of a couple side hustles because the regulatory burden and litigation risk was far too high for the potential profit at the scale I could manage in the time available.

Iím one of the most public people on here, not in terms of celebrity, but in how much I share and how easily itís connected back to my real life persona. The main reason I did it in the first place was to break down the taboo around money and hopefully inspire people in their own journeys.

Travel abroad is pretty unlikely for us, itís not something that we value much currently, and third world countries where the risk is highest appeal to us the least.

In person we probably look like the poorest people in our entire neighborhood except for the fact that we can afford to have me home full time. Weíve been robbed several times before (one home, one garage, a couple car related thefts) itís not really a big deal recovering from it. Thankfully our neighborhood is trending considerably safer over the past few years.

In the highly unlikely event of a home invasion, the perpetrators would likely be taking the room temperature challenge. Same if I get attacked when out and about, as after a couple near-lethal encounters earlier in life, Iíve been investing in training as we have the money and now never leave the house unarmed unless Iím traveling to a gun free zone. 

redbird

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Re: Potential of becoming a target of robbery, kidnapping, or worse during FIRE
« Reply #10 on: February 25, 2018, 12:00:45 PM »
I'm not really worried about it. I am completely anti-flashy (generally wearing just jeans and t-shirt) and, being introverted, I don't talk to my neighbors other than a polite greeting when I see them. I'm out in my yard manually mowing and manually weeding while a good chunk of my neighbors have yard care services, house cleaners, etc coming in the middle of the day. I keep unpredictable hours and I drive around a 5 year old Prius that I keep parked in my garage so they generally can't even tell when I'm coming or going. The neighbors who have asked about my job have been told generically that I "work from home." I'll sometimes set up my drying rack in my backyard to dry non-underwear clothes. Honestly, they probably think I'm pretty poor due to the things they can see me doing outside (drying clothes on a rack, only 1 fuel-efficient car that's not newer, clothes I wear, the manual yard work), but I am quiet and keep my yard/house looking clean, so they don't have any issues with me.

It's not really that I intentionally practice stealth wealth. It's just who I am, being a very frugal person. But it certainly makes things easier.

dude

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Re: Potential of becoming a target of robbery, kidnapping, or worse during FIRE
« Reply #11 on: February 26, 2018, 06:57:35 AM »
Potential of becoming a target of robbery, kidnapping, or worse during FIRE
- Robbery (low probability, some loss of assets)
- Kidnapping (low probability, some loss of assets)

- or worse?   What could be worse?  Oh, perhaps....

- Litigation.  (higher probability than the above two.  High loss of assets.  In fact, you could end up bankrupt.)

Your 401k is largely protected from lawsuits.  Also, umbrella policies are pretty cheap, and most litigants don't seek anything beyond those policy limits.

Herbert Derp

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Also OP unless you are being extremely extravagant in your travels you probably don't have to worry about anything. I just tell people I'm between jobs or got laid off. Most feel sorry for me and feed me ;-). If you ate in some deeply impoverished country run by war lords you'll appear wealthy by most locals standards (and are) even if impoverished by US standards and need to possibly be more careful. But yeah, if you give your real name to strangers you meet (I use a nick name) and have a blog or online info that talks about your wealth then you may encounter problems but probably a rare thing.

Honestly, I have traveled far and wide and have never had this concern.  I avoid areas that are known to be full of criminal activity (shanty towns, favelas, villas, etc.) but not all local neighborhoods.  When traveling, I wear normal street clothes, stay at local apartments, take normal transportation (no limos with blacked out windows).  Actually, we normally have the opposite issue, we have gold status with one airline, and we are normally assumed to be in the wrong line.  In a few situations, I have changed the language I speak to my advantage, but that is extremely rare.  Also, no one, in a foreign country, has asked me how I can afford to travel.  It's only been close friends and family.  Only my parents know that we are FIRE.  Everyone else knows we have money for a very frugal lifestyle for a year or two, so $50k.

Hopefully my experiences will be similar. I currently plan on living in less-developed areas of the world on a long-term basis, think Eastern Europe, Southeast Asia, etc. Of course, when I do this I am going to want to have a social life and make a lot of friends. That being said, I think I am going to try and keep my wealth a secret from them. The problem is that the better someone knows you, the harder it becomes to perpetuate a cover story. Not to mention I have my own ego to contend with and run the risk of letting certain details slip out, especially if I get drunk. I guess I'll just have to see how it goes...
« Last Edit: March 01, 2018, 12:30:31 AM by Herbert Derp »

Bateaux

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Also OP unless you are being extremely extravagant in your travels you probably don't have to worry about anything. I just tell people I'm between jobs or got laid off. Most feel sorry for me and feed me ;-). If you ate in some deeply impoverished country run by war lords you'll appear wealthy by most locals standards (and are) even if impoverished by US standards and need to possibly be more careful. But yeah, if you give your real name to strangers you meet (I use a nick name) and have a blog or online info that talks about your wealth then you may encounter problems but probably a rare thing.

Honestly, I have traveled far and wide and have never had this concern.  I avoid areas that are known to be full of criminal activity (shanty towns, favelas, villas, etc.) but not all local neighborhoods.  When traveling, I wear normal street clothes, stay at local apartments, take normal transportation (no limos with blacked out windows).  Actually, we normally have the opposite issue, we have gold status with one airline, and we are normally assumed to be in the wrong line.  In a few situations, I have changed the language I speak to my advantage, but that is extremely rare.  Also, no one, in a foreign country, has asked me how I can afford to travel.  It's only been close friends and family.  Only my parents know that we are FIRE.  Everyone else knows we have money for a very frugal lifestyle for a year or two, so $50k.

Hopefully my experiences will be similar. I currently plan on living in less-developed areas of the world on a long-term basis, think Eastern Europe, Southeast Asia, etc. Of course, when I do this I am going to want to have a social life and make a lot of friends. That being said, I think I am going to try and keep my wealth a secret from them. The problem is that the better someone knows you, the harder it becomes to perpetuate a cover story. Not to mention I have my own ego to contend with and run the risk of letting certain details slip out, especially if I get drunk. I guess I'll just have to see how it goes...

I hope to backpack, sail and bike globally with the hippy type nomads.  Most of them work/play as money allows.  I'm older now so I'm hoping to pass myself off as getting a little pension fund and just getting by.  Not to be deceptive, just to fit in and be able to share the experience of shoestring travel.  I know lots of wealthy people travel dirtbag style for this very reason.

limeandpepper

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Hopefully my experiences will be similar. I currently plan on living in less-developed areas of the world on a long-term basis, think Eastern Europe, Southeast Asia, etc. Of course, when I do this I am going to want to have a social life and make a lot of friends. That being said, I think I am going to try and keep my wealth a secret from them. The problem is that the better someone knows you, the harder it becomes to perpetuate a cover story. Not to mention I have my own ego to contend with and run the risk of letting certain details slip out, especially if I get drunk. I guess I'll just have to see how it goes...

When my partner and I travel we tend to stay in cheap guesthouses and most of the activities we do and food we eat is also cheap. We don't dress flashy either, but one thing that can give a bit away is my partner's camera gear. Oh, and physical appearance - he's white - in many parts of Asia that is basically considered to be a correlation with wealth.

So anyway sometimes I do feel a bit awkward when people (especially if it's say a local person who might not be able to afford to travel much if at all) ask us how long we're in a particular country or how long we're travelling for, because it's for quite a while then it might suggest that you're fairly rich - sometimes I can almost see in their expression that they're thinking, "whoa how can they afford to travel to all these countries for this long". But overall we've never had any serious problems, and we've met many fellow long-term travellers while we were on the road, with these people we're all more or less in the same boat so there is some kind of mutual understanding.

As far as risks go, I'd say with most places you go to, the likelihood of getting into an accident or becoming ill is probably far greater than the risk of being a victim of robbery or kidnapping.

EricL

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My Ďstache is modest compared to some and most of it is a small pension.  My treasured personal possessions are mostly sentimental and not valuable to anyone with a serious profit motive.  The actual expensive stuff is insured electronics I could care less about. Indeed, Iíd leverage the insurance for upgrades, so thieves are welcome to it all. For anyone dumb enough to not grab it and go but instead tries to get at me, I have a .357 magnum for. 

I donít travel as much as Iíd like but I prefer 1st world countries with good law enforcement.  Even there I donít stand out much. But if I ever developed a taste for 3rd World travel Iíd dress like a local and blend as much as complexion, language skill, and mannerisms allowed.  People like that and hippie nomad types rarely have any worries beyond the most run of the mill crime.

rob/d

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Ha ha , good topic.
Keep it secret , keep it safe . Good line from L.O.T.R.s
Never tell friends what you got .You will be surprised at which friend will be jealous and bitter about it .
Never ever tell family members, be vague, they're mostly nuts anyway and prone to brag with you're success.
Don't be all bling and obvious out and about .You would not give me a second glance in most places.
Drive a normal car . We got a KIA , yay.
If an asshole gets too close and asks how much you got , i instantly  ask the same question back .They usually STFU or run off pretty quickly. If they don't then they get the level two response.
These are my english rules though so might not apply elsewhere .


gerardc

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Hopefully my experiences will be similar. I currently plan on living in less-developed areas of the world on a long-term basis, think Eastern Europe, Southeast Asia, etc. Of course, when I do this I am going to want to have a social life and make a lot of friends. That being said, I think I am going to try and keep my wealth a secret from them. The problem is that the better someone knows you, the harder it becomes to perpetuate a cover story. Not to mention I have my own ego to contend with and run the risk of letting certain details slip out, especially if I get drunk. I guess I'll just have to see how it goes...

I've definitely been guilty of talking too much or bragging. I never understood why people weren't very open with their personal finances, that might be reason why.


Your 401k is largely protected from lawsuits.  Also, umbrella policies are pretty cheap, and most litigants don't seek anything beyond those policy limits.

Is that how it works? So your umbrella policy covers $2M, you get sued for $4M, out of luck...

Also, those policies only cover trivial matters I think, like slipping on your property. They can't possibly cover all crimes you could commit. I'm nore scared of getting myself into a fight or something that those policies won't cover.

GuitarStv

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I'm more scared of getting myself into a fight or something that those policies won't cover.

Fortunately, getting into a fight is something which you have 100% control over.

Lives to travel

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Actually, crytocurrency makes a huge difference because there is no ability to trace the transactions.  That's why the people mentioned in the article were targets.  I have heard kidnappings happening to a few people, but usually they are forced to go to atms and withdraw their daily maximum.


You know, it would be nice to pre-arrange with your bank that if you ever try to withdraw the daily max from an ATM (maybe two days in a row) that it would be a duress signal.  I don't think I've ever withdrawn my daily max; to do so would be very unusual coming from me. Maybe have an insufficient funds message pop up so that the thieves wouldn't suspect you?  Just thinking out loud here.  I mean, you could do travel notifications for your ATM card, why can't you in the same transaction set up a duress code?

Plina

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Actually, crytocurrency makes a huge difference because there is no ability to trace the transactions.  That's why the people mentioned in the article were targets.  I have heard kidnappings happening to a few people, but usually they are forced to go to atms and withdraw their daily maximum.


You know, it would be nice to pre-arrange with your bank that if you ever try to withdraw the daily max from an ATM (maybe two days in a row) that it would be a duress signal.  I don't think I've ever withdrawn my daily max; to do so would be very unusual coming from me. Maybe have an insufficient funds message pop up so that the thieves wouldn't suspect you?  Just thinking out loud here.  I mean, you could do travel notifications for your ATM card, why can't you in the same transaction set up a duress code?

I limit the funds that I have on the debit card so if someone gets access to my card or cardnumber they will only have access to a limited amount of money. When I am abroad and on internet I always use my creditcard.

Hirondelle

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Also OP unless you are being extremely extravagant in your travels you probably don't have to worry about anything. I just tell people I'm between jobs or got laid off. Most feel sorry for me and feed me ;-). If you ate in some deeply impoverished country run by war lords you'll appear wealthy by most locals standards (and are) even if impoverished by US standards and need to possibly be more careful. But yeah, if you give your real name to strangers you meet (I use a nick name) and have a blog or online info that talks about your wealth then you may encounter problems but probably a rare thing.

Honestly, I have traveled far and wide and have never had this concern.  I avoid areas that are known to be full of criminal activity (shanty towns, favelas, villas, etc.) but not all local neighborhoods.  When traveling, I wear normal street clothes, stay at local apartments, take normal transportation (no limos with blacked out windows).  Actually, we normally have the opposite issue, we have gold status with one airline, and we are normally assumed to be in the wrong line.  In a few situations, I have changed the language I speak to my advantage, but that is extremely rare.  Also, no one, in a foreign country, has asked me how I can afford to travel.  It's only been close friends and family.  Only my parents know that we are FIRE.  Everyone else knows we have money for a very frugal lifestyle for a year or two, so $50k.

Hopefully my experiences will be similar. I currently plan on living in less-developed areas of the world on a long-term basis, think Eastern Europe, Southeast Asia, etc. Of course, when I do this I am going to want to have a social life and make a lot of friends. That being said, I think I am going to try and keep my wealth a secret from them. The problem is that the better someone knows you, the harder it becomes to perpetuate a cover story. Not to mention I have my own ego to contend with and run the risk of letting certain details slip out, especially if I get drunk. I guess I'll just have to see how it goes...

While traveling, I've met two people that told me they were ER. The first one told me straight away and was very braggy about it, don't be like that. The second one told me after an extensive 5 hour conversation. He was being honest about his lifestyle and proud that he'd made it this far, but he didn't show of.
I can't say anything about Eastern Europe, but SE-Asia is full of long term traveling young to middle aged westerners that are anywhere between broke and super rich. Most locals will just consider you as one of the many "rich" (to their terms) westerners. Travelers do talk money, but often not immediately upon meeting and if you feel uncomfortable sharing your level of wealth anyone will accept a "I've saved up money for at least X years of travel, maybe I'll work or volunteer a bit in between to restore my funds" or "I worked X years to save up a travel fund and I'll see how long I can stretch it". Or tell them you're a millionaire in the local currency ;)

NoStacheOhio

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Actually, crytocurrency makes a huge difference because there is no ability to trace the transactions.  That's why the people mentioned in the article were targets.  I have heard kidnappings happening to a few people, but usually they are forced to go to atms and withdraw their daily maximum.


You know, it would be nice to pre-arrange with your bank that if you ever try to withdraw the daily max from an ATM (maybe two days in a row) that it would be a duress signal.  I don't think I've ever withdrawn my daily max; to do so would be very unusual coming from me. Maybe have an insufficient funds message pop up so that the thieves wouldn't suspect you?  Just thinking out loud here.  I mean, you could do travel notifications for your ATM card, why can't you in the same transaction set up a duress code?

I think a duress PIN would probably be more reliable. Just a second PIN that acts as a 911 signal. Maybe triggers a lower daily limit (because giving them nothing is likely to end badly).

My wife and I have a danger signal over the phone (something that sounds totally innocuous but we would never say), why shouldn't I have something similar for my bank.

Gone Fishing

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Not worried.  FI Bloggers would be easier targets...

jim555

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I don't do social media and don't go blabbing off about my situation.  That will solve most of the problem. 

koshtra

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Huh. I guess if I was worried about it I'd go looking for numbers and see how likely it seemed, and go from there. But most risks, & especially the cinematically appealing ones, are so low they're not worth bothering about. When you get to things less likely than breaking your neck by falling off a ladder, I tend to lose interest. So if I'm foolhardy enough to drive a car a couple times a week -- which is a really risky thing to do -- then I reckon I'm up for the risk of being kidnapped because people can figure out I'm set for a modest retirement. Have at it, kidnappers!

Telecaster

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I got enough to worry about.  At some point you just have to live your life. 

Potterquilter

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Just be inconspicuous.  To become FI most people donít wear flashy jewelry or drive fancy cars.  If anyone asks, say you work from home.  Then start asking them friendly questions  which distracts most people.  When traveling we use a credit card with a low limit, another credit card for internet transactions with a $5,000 limit.  Stay at normal hotels. Eat at normal restaurants.

We have travelled the world and the country and have not had problems.  Much bigger things to worry about.

MrUpwardlyMobile

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Potential of becoming a target of robbery, kidnapping, or worse during FIRE
- Robbery (low probability, some loss of assets)
- Kidnapping (low probability, some loss of assets)

- or worse?   What could be worse?  Oh, perhaps....

- Litigation.  (higher probability than the above two.  High loss of assets.  In fact, you could end up bankrupt.)

Your 401k is largely protected from lawsuits.  Also, umbrella policies are pretty cheap, and most litigants don't seek anything beyond those policy limits.

Policy limits are usually focused on in personal injury matters. Things get downright vindictive outside that realm.

MrThatsDifferent

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Interestingly, MMM himself probably has more money than most of us and his name, location, business, financial information, etc, are all public and he doesnít seem too concerned.

Shane

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In person we probably look like the poorest people in our entire neighborhood except for the fact that we can afford to have me home full time. Weíve been robbed several times before (one home, one garage, a couple car related thefts) itís not really a big deal recovering from it. Thankfully our neighborhood is trending considerably safer over the past few years.

In the highly unlikely event of a home invasion, the perpetrators would likely be taking the room temperature challenge. Same if I get attacked when out and about, as after a couple near-lethal encounters earlier in life, Iíve been investing in training as we have the money and now never leave the house unarmed unless Iím traveling to a gun free zone.

@HarbingerofBunnies Oh, I get it now. By SE Wisconsin, you actually mean the South Side of Chicago.

furrychickens

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In person we probably look like the poorest people in our entire neighborhood except for the fact that we can afford to have me home full time. Weíve been robbed several times before (one home, one garage, a couple car related thefts) itís not really a big deal recovering from it. Thankfully our neighborhood is trending considerably safer over the past few years.

In the highly unlikely event of a home invasion, the perpetrators would likely be taking the room temperature challenge. Same if I get attacked when out and about, as after a couple near-lethal encounters earlier in life, Iíve been investing in training as we have the money and now never leave the house unarmed unless Iím traveling to a gun free zone.

@HarbingerofBunnies Oh, I get it now. By SE Wisconsin, you actually mean the South Side of Chicago.

Lol, not quite, but Milwaukee gives Chicago a run for its money in crime adjusted per capita.

Cassie

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I was surprised to hear Oprah say that Milwaukee was one of the poorest cities which would contribute to more crime. I lived there in the late 70's so a lot has changed. I loved the town.  I would probably live in the burbs if I lived there now though.   

profnot

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Using Trusts and Limited Liability Companies can be a way to limit risk.

So the house is owned by the 456 Main Street LLC which, in turn, is part of my general Grand Canyon Trust.

My name is not on a Deed or bank account (just the signature cards).

Shane

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Recently read a good book by Princeton sociologist and MacArthur "Genius" award winner Matthew Desmond. All of his research for the book was done in Milwaukee.

Evicted: Poverty and Profit in the American City

Retire-Canada

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I would be far more afraid of the damage being paranoid would do to you than the risk of being kidnapped or robbed due to posting stuff online about my life....including my investments.

UndergroundDaytimeDad

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I am not personally worried about an armed robbery or kidnapping, I am worried about scammers, hustlers and time wasters.  It only takes a few people with loose morals and a few beers onboard to throw your name into the mix when a friend of theirs talks about a business they are starting that just needs a bit of "seed capital". 

As I know a fair bit about tech startups, this has put me in a few awkward situations that were pitched as far more legitimate than they turned out to be.  Not serious risk, but the less people know about your means, certainly at a younger age, the better. 

Threshkin

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Re: Potential of becoming a target of robbery, kidnapping, or worse during FIRE
« Reply #37 on: November 10, 2018, 10:28:34 PM »
I am not that worried about robbery or kidnapping because I don't look rich.  I look more like a someone who is just getting by in my old (comfortable) clothes and 18 year old car.  It is the people who appear rich or who are publicly rich who are at much more risk than I am.

On the other hand, I did add a 1M umbrella policy for my insurance a few years ago.  It protects my assets if I get sued and does not cost much at all.

FIREby35

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Re: Potential of becoming a target of robbery, kidnapping, or worse during FIRE
« Reply #38 on: November 11, 2018, 07:42:37 AM »
Potential of becoming a target of robbery, kidnapping, or worse during FIRE
- Robbery (low probability, some loss of assets)
- Kidnapping (low probability, some loss of assets)

- or worse?   What could be worse?  Oh, perhaps....

- Litigation.  (higher probability than the above two.  High loss of assets.  In fact, you could end up bankrupt.)

Your 401k is largely protected from lawsuits.  Also, umbrella policies are pretty cheap, and most litigants don't seek anything beyond those policy limits.

I've been suing people for negligence for 8 years and have never collected a penny from an individual. I have collected millions of dollars from insurance companies for seriously injured people. I know highly successful plaintiff's lawyers in my state who have worked for decades and are in leadership positions in our professional guild and told me the exact same thing. This is a vastly exaggerated risk based on fear spread by insurance companies for their own benefit.

Did you know insurance companies lobbied to make it illegal to tell jurors the lawsuit they are deciding is about insurance proceeds? That is, they used that fear to make it illegal to discuss the truth in a courtroom. Think about it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMrjQNfd-J8

https://nebraskalegislature.gov/laws/statutes.php?statute=27-411



waltworks

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Re: Potential of becoming a target of robbery, kidnapping, or worse during FIRE
« Reply #39 on: November 11, 2018, 09:06:26 AM »
I would imagine that most people here are typically mistaken for being poor, not rich. In our neighborhood we are considered borderline lunatics and definitely dirt poor for riding our bikes everywhere. The first time I lost a library book (ok, 2 year old dumped a water bottle on it, actually - my first ever destroyed library book) the librarians were in a near-panic because they assumed I couldn't pay the $22 or so that it would cost to replace.

I think if you're worrying about kidnapping, you're worried about the wrong things in your life. You're in much more overall danger from simple things like eating lots of red meat or not exercising or not having moles checked out. You're in much more financial danger from your own friends/spouse/family (illness, personal emergencies, general poor financial decisions that they assume you can bail them out of, etc).

Kidnapping is the last thing I'd be worried about, honestly, unless you're worth many billions of dollars, in which case I sort of pity you because now you're probably a public persona whether you like it or not and you're no longer a free person in many ways.

-W

Much Fishing to Do

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Re: Potential of becoming a target of robbery, kidnapping, or worse during FIRE
« Reply #40 on: November 11, 2018, 03:52:32 PM »
When I was 12 years old and leaving a high school football game at night with my friend a dozen young angry men jumped us, beat us with lead pipes and didn't take a dime, not that we looked like anyone that would have more than $5 on us anyway.

Just be careful whether you are worth $5 or $50M, which could mean anything from locking your doors to carrying umbrella insurance. 
« Last Edit: November 11, 2018, 03:55:24 PM by Much Fishing to Do »