Author Topic: I don't want to retire  (Read 16013 times)

BicycleB

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Re: I don't want to retire
« Reply #100 on: January 19, 2019, 07:19:37 PM »
Maybe you have lost the opportunity you will ever have to accomplish your professional dreams. You have enough money but will continue to agonize over every penny. You will be embarrassed whenever anyone asks about your work, even though you don't care what they think. Perhaps you will be unable to ever remove the sadness from your heart.

It sounds sort of miserable to me, the way you describe it. I wouldn't want to retire either if I felt like that!

MonkeyJenga

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Re: I don't want to retire
« Reply #101 on: January 19, 2019, 07:26:02 PM »
I can't tell what your true issue is, because you keep making arguments about things that are bad to experience (ex: stressing over every penny) but then saying you don't do that. I will join a couple other people in recommending therapy.

Like, if you're worried in advance about losing your current income because you have no other useful skills, then take the time now to learn some skills that can get you a boring desk job.

If assurances of financial stability don't do it, and you still just regret the past, that's therapy time.

Skyhigh

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Re: I don't want to retire
« Reply #102 on: January 19, 2019, 07:35:35 PM »
Maybe you have lost the opportunity you will ever have to accomplish your professional dreams. You have enough money but will continue to agonize over every penny. You will be embarrassed whenever anyone asks about your work, even though you don't care what they think. Perhaps you will be unable to ever remove the sadness from your heart.

It sounds sort of miserable to me, the way you describe it. I wouldn't want to retire either if I felt like that!

I agree.

I just arrived at a place in life where I am free to pursue my professional dreams and have returned to it in some capacity. It feels like I am just getting started yet the industry says otherwise. As a result of my age, I am sidelined from my goal and it is a crushing realization. I spent much of my youth effectively forcibly retired and I did not like it. I do not wish to buy an RV and ride off into the sunset. I do not wish to volunteer or take any more yoga classes. I am sick of hobbies to fill time.

I don't want to retire since it feels like I never was able to get started.

maizefolk

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Re: I don't want to retire
« Reply #103 on: January 19, 2019, 07:38:30 PM »
Thanks MonkeyJenga, I think you've put your finger on why it felt like I wasn't making any progress here.

Skyhigh, it seems to me like you're shifting what you are unhappy about as people propose solutions to different apparent complaints. That's a pattern I've seen enough from people in my field to know it's a frequent phenotypic marker for depression. (They start from feeling unhappy and then try to identify potential causes for why they feel unhappy. If a particular cause turns out not to make sense or be easily addressable, they'll shift to something else, because after all, they really do genuinely feel extremely unhappy and down).

Obviously I'm not a therapist, and even if I was one I couldn't diagnosis someone over the internet. But it couldn't hurt to schedule a time to go in for a checkup (just like you probably stop by your regular physician every year or two to make sure everything is in working order), right?

Skyhigh

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Re: I don't want to retire
« Reply #104 on: January 19, 2019, 07:39:40 PM »
I can't tell what your true issue is, because you keep making arguments about things that are bad to experience (ex: stressing over every penny) but then saying you don't do that. I will join a couple other people in recommending therapy.

Like, if you're worried in advance about losing your current income because you have no other useful skills, then take the time now to learn some skills that can get you a boring desk job.

If assurances of financial stability don't do it, and you still just regret the past, that's therapy time.

I am trying to explain from different perspectives to different people. I am sure that it is confusing. I have a dream that will go unfulfilled. I chose to pursue FIRE and when it came time to go back to working on my goal it had dissipated. That's all.

Skyhigh

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Re: I don't want to retire
« Reply #105 on: January 19, 2019, 07:51:07 PM »
Thanks MonkeyJenga, I think you've put your finger on why it felt like I wasn't making any progress here.

Skyhigh, it seems to me like you're shifting what you are unhappy about as people propose solutions to different apparent complaints. That's a pattern I've seen enough from people in my field to know it's a frequent phenotypic marker for depression. (They start from feeling unhappy and then try to identify potential causes for why they feel unhappy. If a particular cause turns out not to make sense or be easily addressable, they'll shift to something else, because after all, they really do genuinely feel extremely unhappy and down).

Obviously I'm not a therapist, and even if I was one I couldn't diagnosis someone over the internet. But it couldn't hurt to schedule a time to go in for a checkup (just like you probably stop by your regular physician every year or two to make sure everything is in working order), right?

Thank you for your input. It is wise to consider issues from many different perspectives. It is also possible that I have a perspective that many here have not experienced. I had not received a paycheck from an employer for nearly 16 years before I
 was able to return to my chosen profession. My peer group is also largely financially independent. They have experienced hardships to the lifestyle as well. I have some considerable experience with FIRE. It is possible that some here are placing a lot of faith into this outcome and have not completely considered the ramifications of it.

Take as an example the fate of lottery winners. A year later they are often less happy as the result of their new lifestyle. Because I am expressing some dissatisfaction with my situation does not necessarily mean that I am depressed. Perhaps I have some genuine issues that others here may encounter? Maybe my experience should be considered? What if my position needs to be seen as false and a reason needs to be created?

maizefolk

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Re: I don't want to retire
« Reply #106 on: January 19, 2019, 08:06:49 PM »
Thanks MonkeyJenga, I think you've put your finger on why it felt like I wasn't making any progress here.

Skyhigh, it seems to me like you're shifting what you are unhappy about as people propose solutions to different apparent complaints. That's a pattern I've seen enough from people in my field to know it's a frequent phenotypic marker for depression. (They start from feeling unhappy and then try to identify potential causes for why they feel unhappy. If a particular cause turns out not to make sense or be easily addressable, they'll shift to something else, because after all, they really do genuinely feel extremely unhappy and down).

Obviously I'm not a therapist, and even if I was one I couldn't diagnosis someone over the internet. But it couldn't hurt to schedule a time to go in for a checkup (just like you probably stop by your regular physician every year or two to make sure everything is in working order), right?

....

Because I am expressing some dissatisfaction with my situation does not necessarily mean that I am depressed. Perhaps I have some genuine issues that others here may encounter? Maybe my experience should be considered? What if my position needs to be seen as false and a reason needs to be created?

I dislike that you are misrepresenting my statement. Note that 1) I did not state you were depressed 2) the reason I suggested that you should consider that you may be depressed was not that you were expressing some dissatisfaction with your life but because you constantly shift your explanation for being unhappy whenever anyone proposes a way to address one of the several issues you have stated in different posts to be the reason you are unhappy and dismissed any and all suggestions for how you might improve either your situation or state of mind.

I also dislike that you present depression as being mutually exclusive with facing genuine issues. Many depressed people also face significant challenges in life. You don't get to hand wave away all those other challenges just because they are also depressed.

But anyway, in the context of our discussion the latter is a side issue.

1) If you want to continue to be unhappy and unsatisfied with your life, keep doing what you are doing.
2) If you don't, I propose you devise some approaches to try to change your life (you have a range of suggestions from this thread, but obviously you know your situation best so maybe you can think of something even more effective).
3) If you won't do anything to try to be happy/satisfied again because you feel powerless and hopeless and that no change you make is ever going to lead to you feeling happy/satisfied again, yes that would be quite consistent with depression.

Those are basically the three options any of us face when we feel the way that you sound like you do. FIRE or no FIRE.

bacchi

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Re: I don't want to retire
« Reply #107 on: January 19, 2019, 08:32:43 PM »
For the sake of politeness I haven't said it but - troll post.

Yep. Troll.

Dicey

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Re: I don't want to retire
« Reply #108 on: January 19, 2019, 08:46:06 PM »
Sounds like you won a Golden Globe but are disappointed that it wasn't an Oscar. I don't say this often, but a little therapy to unpack why you feel this way might help you shed this hair shirt you insist on wearing. Fact is, you WON! Sad that you aren't willing/able to allow yourself to enjoy it.

I am thankful to have achieved FIRE but nothing will get my 20's and 30's back. No amount of self-indulgence would replace my dream. I was forced to achieve FIRE out a need to support myself. Life is easier these days but I wish I could achieve my professional goals.
Dude, seriously, nobody gets their 20's and 30's back! And most people never hit FIRE, either. I feel sorry that you are unwilling and unable to see how blessed you are. Careers and professions are always changing. You simply weren't born at the right time to achieve your dream. Yet, you achieved success anyway. Why you sneer at it is the real question, one that only you can answer.

Dicey

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Re: I don't want to retire
« Reply #109 on: January 19, 2019, 08:52:43 PM »
It took some digging to find this story, but I have always loved it. I had never even seen the movie when I read this in Guideposts magazine years ago, but it stuck with me. It didn't turn up in a google search just now, but I finally found it on the Guideposts website.

https://www.guideposts.org/better-living/life-advice/finding-life-purpose/a-christmas-house

@Skyhigh, I'd suggest you read the shit out of this story. And then thank your lucky stars for what you've been able to do for yourself.

A mom

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Re: I don't want to retire
« Reply #110 on: January 20, 2019, 10:32:22 AM »
What llhamo said.

Cassie

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Re: I don't want to retire
« Reply #111 on: January 20, 2019, 11:06:00 AM »
I know someone thatís 80 and still flying to help Pilots and Paws. Says itís one of the most rewarding things he has ever done. You are choosing to wallow. Life could be much worse.

Miss Piggy

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Re: I don't want to retire
« Reply #112 on: January 20, 2019, 11:43:35 AM »
@Skyhigh - I think you've received some great comments, thoughts, and toughlove in this thread. But I'm curious: What motivated you to start this thread in the first place? What are you hoping to gain from the discussion?

jim555

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Re: I don't want to retire
« Reply #113 on: January 20, 2019, 12:32:25 PM »
The OPs postings are fake and unconvincing and the facts don't even make sense.

koshtra

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Re: I don't want to retire
« Reply #114 on: January 20, 2019, 05:46:58 PM »
I kinda suspect that OP heard about early retirement somewhere and wanted to go warn people that they'd be sorry if they did it, without really knowing what we're about here, and then he got unexpectedly interested in how we responded. It doesn't entirely fit my definition of trolling, but it possibly it was not entirely straight either. The story did shift oddly as the thread went on. 

God help us though, imagine living with that internalized contempt for nonprofessional work -- having put in all that effort and deployed all that skill and intelligence, and then to be ashamed of it! And to really think that the whole world would have the same contempt: that's sad. That part rang true.

BPA

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Re: I don't want to retire
« Reply #115 on: January 20, 2019, 06:30:09 PM »
I don't think he is trolling. He has a fairly long history of posting. I suspect @maizeman is correct.

I read some past posts because I initially wondered if he were trolling, and he's often been a bit brooding. Maybe these recent posts are a manifestation of depression.

I feel really sad for him that he seems stuck and unable to enjoy life because of what in many respects is a problem of privilege.

@Skyhigh : Please seriously consider therapy. I don't say that to be mean. I've been to therapy before. It may be what you need to find meaning in your life. None of us achieve all of our dreams, but we still manage to find happiness. Best of luck.

frugal_c

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Re: I don't want to retire
« Reply #116 on: January 20, 2019, 08:11:11 PM »
Thank you for sharing SkyHigh, I can identify with this.  My family is not at fire yet but it is kind of just a matter of time.   We are close enough that I am starting to think of the purpose to which I am retiring.  I can see how it would be difficult.  I will certainly need to have some type of business or part-time job on the go to feel fulfilled.

If I understand your dilemna, you cannot find your desired job in the airline industry due to age.  I think you have to accept it and find a different outlet.  Surely there is some other career that you can break into and if not, is there not some type of business that would scratch the itch?  Would you consider going back to school for some different career option?

BicycleB

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Re: I don't want to retire
« Reply #117 on: January 20, 2019, 10:13:41 PM »
Maybe you have lost the opportunity you will ever have to accomplish your professional dreams. You have enough money but will continue to agonize over every penny. You will be embarrassed whenever anyone asks about your work, even though you don't care what they think. Perhaps you will be unable to ever remove the sadness from your heart.

It sounds sort of miserable to me, the way you describe it. I wouldn't want to retire either if I felt like that!

I agree.

I just arrived at a place in life where I am free to pursue my professional dreams and have returned to it in some capacity. It feels like I am just getting started yet the industry says otherwise. As a result of my age, I am sidelined from my goal and it is a crushing realization. I spent much of my youth effectively forcibly retired and I did not like it. I do not wish to buy an RV and ride off into the sunset. I do not wish to volunteer or take any more yoga classes. I am sick of hobbies to fill time.

I don't want to retire since it feels like I never was able to get started.

It sounds like you felt bad during much of your youth (your 20s and 30s), and now that the youth period has gone, you still feel bad. You have clearly stated you didn't get your chosen career and won't ever get it. So now you feel bad again!

Other people keep offering suggestions as to how to stop feeling bad, but you keep shutting down each suggestion, or ignoring them and repeating your earlier desolate statements. Does it seem to you that people just aren't believing your experience?

It sounds like people are assuming that you are in search of solutions, but you sound like you just want someone to hear how horribly disappointing an experience it has been to not achieve your professional desires. Is that what you're after?

Ozlady

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Re: I don't want to retire
« Reply #118 on: February 21, 2019, 05:09:21 PM »
This is one of the saddest threads  i have read ....I feel so sad after reading it....it reminds me of one of my favourite books..

-Remains of the Day by K.Ishiguro


To the OP; i just want to say i kinda understand what you are trying to get across; i was kinda forced to be a stay at home mum after having trained half my life in a profession..i never got back to it...worse..i got trapped wiping poos, talking baby talk, school home work, endless driving ..

Sure, i did not get my high monies i would have gotten if i had pursued my career but i went on to replace it with other ventures...in the end , it was a better outcome..my friends went on to have career burnouts..


But, i think  one should always look forward , not look back...as the grass is always greener on the other side...focus on your achievements  ...and not What would have been...

wow! You sound so melancholy that i feel so down after reading your posts...got to ask, are you affecting people around you? Your family?

Maybe see a counsellor ?

Skyhigh

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Re: I don't want to retire
« Reply #119 on: November 12, 2019, 03:40:33 PM »
I think that FIRE means more after one has experienced the accomplishments that come from a career. I never was able to experience my professional objective and am not super excited about more days off. I have a peer in a similar position. His career dreams were a flop but at a young age he was able to become very wealthy through a, not so exciting, means. Now he is retired at 34 and is sad.

FIRE can be the golden handcuffs. Too good to quit but does not replace the satisfaction that can come from a meaningful career.

I donít want to retire. I want to achieve my professional goals and work until they push me out.

I have spent enough days volunteering, taking classes, joining clubs, gardening, biking, taking walks,,,, etc. Done with the retired life.

SKyhigh
« Last Edit: November 12, 2019, 03:43:04 PM by Skyhigh »

matchewed

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Re: I don't want to retire
« Reply #120 on: November 12, 2019, 05:41:48 PM »
I think that FIRE means more after one has experienced the accomplishments that come from a career. I never was able to experience my professional objective and am not super excited about more days off. I have a peer in a similar position. His career dreams were a flop but at a young age he was able to become very wealthy through a, not so exciting, means. Now he is retired at 34 and is sad.

FIRE can be the golden handcuffs. Too good to quit but does not replace the satisfaction that can come from a meaningful career.

I donít want to retire. I want to achieve my professional goals and work until they push me out.

I have spent enough days volunteering, taking classes, joining clubs, gardening, biking, taking walks,,,, etc. Done with the retired life.

SKyhigh

Cool... no one is stopping you.

norajean

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Re: I don't want to retire
« Reply #121 on: November 12, 2019, 05:57:59 PM »
I think someone mentioned it up the thread, but can't you just work your way down the airline career ladder (international>domestic>regional>local>cropduster>flight trainer) until you land a job?  Why does it have to be a commercial pilot with a major airline?  How about starting your own flight service?  Since you are familiar with Alaska, that can be a great place to do it, if you aren't scared by the mountains and tricky weather.

BicycleB

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Re: I don't want to retire
« Reply #122 on: November 12, 2019, 06:38:54 PM »
Sounds like you're ready to work with all the force that is in you. Good! Go get 'em, Skyhigh!

ROF Expat

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Re: I don't want to retire
« Reply #123 on: November 13, 2019, 01:56:03 AM »
Skyhigh,

Why are you reviving a long-dormant thread?  People here want you to succeed and be happy.  They provided a lot of good advice and suggestions.  Have you followed up and tried anything anyone suggested?  If so, tell us about what worked (or what didn't) so people can try and resolve real problems. 

Runrooster

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Re: I don't want to retire
« Reply #124 on: November 29, 2019, 10:28:26 PM »
I can relate to OP.  I have a low level FI and am underemployed. I have a gap in my resume due to caring for family and it is unclear whether I will ever be given the chance to return. Even given the chance, there are five years of grueling exams before I have work life balance again.  Then, while I will have money and prestige, I fear I will face the same view of corporate drudgery as livingafi. Will this career provide mental stimulation and meaning or will it just be crunching numbers for a large firm? 

I am old enough to consider retirement but it sounds boring. I don't have MMM's construction skills or his writing skills. I think I would make a terrible entrepreneur. Most businesses fail. I ran the idea of ER by family tonight and they were shocked and opposed. "Work keeps you young" said a self employed lawyer who has as much vacation time and mental stimulation as he wants. I didnt laugh but I did think this point of view was myopic at best. They gave several examples of people working until 80, which to me suggests poor financial planning rather than deep fulfilment from work.  One person had a federal job where he definitely worked less than 24 hours, probably 16 for full pay.

To those who diagnose depression, I concur. I am on medication and some days are more hopeful than others. I said I can remain underemployed for at least 5 more years, which is enough time to find reasons for retirement. I am aware that I am lucky to have the option of twiddling my thumbs, watching TV, exercising 3 hours a day, and playing games. I think OP and I share fantasy goals of prestige, money, meaning, mental stimulation, and work life balance.

BicycleB

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Re: I don't want to retire
« Reply #125 on: November 30, 2019, 12:10:12 PM »
^The 5 goals in the last sentence may be difficult to achieve all at once, but one or more of them is almost certainly achievable. From a practical action perspective, I urge you to pick the one that means the most to you and take actions to achieve it.


KBecks

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Re: I don't want to retire
« Reply #126 on: November 30, 2019, 12:49:39 PM »
I wonder if you are missing youth as much as you are missing work.

Anyway, what I would suggest if you want challenge is to go work in a high school in credit recovery or similar. 
That's challenge.

One of our acquaintances is flying for Delta and started there a few years ago.  He has to be at least 50.  He's also bright, extremely detailed and energetic.  He's not sad.  If you are going to your job fairs sad, I don't think that airlines are looking for depressed pilots.  Also note that his training/onboarding schedule was brutal.

Hope you get out of your slump soon.

« Last Edit: November 30, 2019, 01:00:11 PM by KBecks »

sui generis

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Re: I don't want to retire
« Reply #127 on: November 30, 2019, 02:27:19 PM »
This is truly a depressing thread and it boggles my mind how OP could be blaming FIRE for anything. FIRE isn't what caused him to fail to achieve professional success, but there is some story he is telling himself that it somehow was.  FIRE doesn't prevent someone from pursuing meaning and accomplishment, but he keeps repeating that he just can't possibly ski or hike or play another day because he is so tired of it, telling himself a story that those are the only things one can do when FIREd.  He tells himself that he would be happy only if he had achieved his professional dream, which is not to be a pilot or to fly a certain plane or anything like that, but to get a very specific type of accolade, apparently, that only a very small percentage of certain types of pilots get.  He's telling himself a story of why he isn't happy now that actually prevents him from ever having a chance to be happy in the future.

Here's something from a voice of experience that is not about all the other things you could do to be happy.  I will say all of those suggestions in this thread are great and valid suggestions and you should look into them, but what is needed first is for you to change the stories you are always telling yourself.  I know how true those stories feel to you.  I did say I'm a voice of experience!  I know how it feels to think about how fake "changing the story" sounds.  The story, you say, is just the truth!  I'm not gonna buy into some lie to make myself feel better.  I'm not into creating some rosy narrative about what really happened just because I'm unwilling to face the ugly truth about  my ugly, ugly life!  I may be unhappy, but I'm at least not going to lie to myself about why!

I remember feeling that way.  And I remember finally finding a therapist that helped me learn through some very hard work that the stories we tell ourselves aren't "true" and I was clinging to just one version of one narrative that was particularly unhelpful and unhealthy for me.  I learned (and am still learning) how to not get attached to "stories".  Some are great, some are bad, but they are all just stories, just one interpretation of a set of events that have a lot of other interpretations.  You will never be happy, no matter what you do, until you can resolve the story you tell yourself about your past. 

As I was approaching FIRE, I went back to that therapist.  I was so happy and excited, but I also foresaw some pitfalls.  That I could get caught up in missing the prestige of my career, the titles, the accolades.  That I would find it hard to have a good answer for the question of "what do you do?"  I asked her to be my life coach for 6 sessions where we could work on those pitfalls I foresaw and how I could adjust my brain to not be derailed from the honestly good stuff I am doing because I am not getting the prestige.  She helped me focus on my real values and how to stay aligned with those values and not get sidetracked by what society tells us we *should* want (like prestige!  And c'mon, is that really your highest value??).  And those 6 sessions were money well-fucking-spent.  I still stop sometimes and examine the different stories I do tell and could tell about my life.  Sometimes it depends on my mood which one I tell in a given moment.  But the best part is, I have this superpower now where I learned I'm responsible for the story I tell about the facts of my life. 

Several people here have shown you alternate stories to tell about the facts you have shared. You aren't buying it, which I get.  I remember feeling that way. But seriously, dude, you will never be happy until you learn a different story of your life.  And which do you want more?  To stick to that story, telling it to yourself day in and day out as a form of punishment for your not being clairvoyant 30 years ago or being born in the wrong year?  Or do you want to try to be happy?  Because you can't do both.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2019, 02:36:47 PM by sui generis »

Dicey

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Re: I don't want to retire
« Reply #128 on: December 01, 2019, 12:44:49 PM »
Hello everyone,
The above post is rather obvious, coming from a dude who just joined a few days ago and who has left similarly spammy messages on other threads. Mods notified.
Kind regards,
Dicey

ysette9

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Re: I don't want to retire
« Reply #129 on: December 01, 2019, 01:19:03 PM »
Hello everyone,
The above post is rather obvious, coming from a dude who just joined a few days ago and who has left similarly spammy messages on other threads. Mods notified.
Kind regards,
Dicey
It looks like the mods have worked their magic.