Author Topic: I don't want to retire  (Read 4982 times)

Skyhigh

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Re: I don't want to retire
« Reply #100 on: January 19, 2019, 06:49:21 PM »
Sounds like you won a Golden Globe but are disappointed that it wasn't an Oscar. I don't say this often, but a little therapy to unpack why you feel this way might help you shed this hair shirt you insist on wearing. Fact is, you WON! Sad that you aren't willing/able to allow yourself to enjoy it.

I am thankful to have achieved FIRE but nothing will get my 20's and 30's back. No amount of self-indulgence would replace my dream. I was forced to achieve FIRE out a need to support myself. Life is easier these days but I wish I could achieve my professional goals.


maizeman

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Re: I don't want to retire
« Reply #101 on: January 19, 2019, 06:58:52 PM »
In answer to your question, it stinks to have to count every penny. It is not fun to be on a financial diet for so long. Debating with one's self over a $20 purchase is not comfortable. Professionals seem to buy whatever they want in an endless stream from Amazon. They drive new cars and take trips for fun. I travel to search for jobs. Many here are cutting back on consumption in order to create the surplus that is needed for investment. I don't have any specific examples of what I would like to have bought other than the peace that must come from not having to stress over ten dollars.

Wow, our brains are certainly wired differently (not that there is anything wrong with that). I COMPLETELY agree with your bolded sentences. But pursing FI is that reason I find I don't stress out at all about expenses, big or small anymore. When I was a broke grad student living stipend check to stipend check, I worried about how much each meal I ate cost and my car braking down could be a near financial disaster.

Now I have a sufficient financial cushion that if my car breaks, I have plenty of money to pay for it, and enough slack in my budget that if I wanted to spend $10 on, say, fancy take out coffee and a ham sandwich I certainly could.

If you are FI, you don't need to worry about the nickel and dime stuff at all. Do a regular check in (maybe once a month initially, later maybe once every 3-6) to make sure you're not living beyond your means, and if you are, make broad adjustments to your lifestyle (three biggest levers are housing, food, and transportation) so that you've got enough slack that $10 isn't going to stress you out.

... does the idea of an endless stream of amazon boxes itself make you happy? Is there anything in particular you'd like to order? Or is it just the not-worrying about money mindset that the boxes represent.

Skyhigh

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Re: I don't want to retire
« Reply #102 on: January 19, 2019, 07:16:40 PM »
In answer to your question, it stinks to have to count every penny. It is not fun to be on a financial diet for so long. Debating with one's self over a $20 purchase is not comfortable. Professionals seem to buy whatever they want in an endless stream from Amazon. They drive new cars and take trips for fun. I travel to search for jobs. Many here are cutting back on consumption in order to create the surplus that is needed for investment. I don't have any specific examples of what I would like to have bought other than the peace that must come from not having to stress over ten dollars.

Wow, our brains are certainly wired differently (not that there is anything wrong with that). I COMPLETELY agree with your bolded sentences. But pursing FI is that reason I find I don't stress out at all about expenses, big or small anymore. When I was a broke grad student living stipend check to stipend check, I worried about how much each meal I ate cost and my car braking down could be a near financial disaster.

Now I have a sufficient financial cushion that if my car breaks, I have plenty of money to pay for it, and enough slack in my budget that if I wanted to spend $10 on, say, fancy take out coffee and a ham sandwich I certainly could.

If you are FI, you don't need to worry about the nickel and dime stuff at all. Do a regular check in (maybe once a month initially, later maybe once every 3-6) to make sure you're not living beyond your means, and if you are, make broad adjustments to your lifestyle (three biggest levers are housing, food, and transportation) so that you've got enough slack that $10 isn't going to stress you out.

... does the idea of an endless stream of amazon boxes itself make you happy? Is there anything in particular you'd like to order? Or is it just the not-worrying about money mindset that the boxes represent.

I admire the relaxed financial attitude that professionals have. To be in a position where one does not feel the constant strain of worry about where next months funds will come must be something to experience. These days I am there in abundance however my financial support comes exclusively through my creations. Should they fail I have no fallback position. I do not have a valuable career to return to should my empire fall. No matter how affluent I become I can't imagine it releasing me from the worry that is so ingrained into my personality after decades of struggle to achieve FIRE.

The other day a client reported to me that the stock market is an excellent place to achieve FIRE if you have $100,000 per year of surplus income to devote to it. I have to agree, it was that kind of situation I was trying to reach as a professional pilot. Without a significant surplus, it takes risk, sweat, sacrifice, and an abundance of grotesque manual labors in real estate to reach FIRE. Not fun.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2019, 07:23:47 PM by Skyhigh »

BicycleB

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Re: I don't want to retire
« Reply #103 on: January 19, 2019, 07:19:37 PM »
Maybe you have lost the opportunity you will ever have to accomplish your professional dreams. You have enough money but will continue to agonize over every penny. You will be embarrassed whenever anyone asks about your work, even though you don't care what they think. Perhaps you will be unable to ever remove the sadness from your heart.

It sounds sort of miserable to me, the way you describe it. I wouldn't want to retire either if I felt like that!

MonkeyJenga

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Re: I don't want to retire
« Reply #104 on: January 19, 2019, 07:26:02 PM »
I can't tell what your true issue is, because you keep making arguments about things that are bad to experience (ex: stressing over every penny) but then saying you don't do that. I will join a couple other people in recommending therapy.

Like, if you're worried in advance about losing your current income because you have no other useful skills, then take the time now to learn some skills that can get you a boring desk job.

If assurances of financial stability don't do it, and you still just regret the past, that's therapy time.

Skyhigh

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Re: I don't want to retire
« Reply #105 on: January 19, 2019, 07:35:35 PM »
Maybe you have lost the opportunity you will ever have to accomplish your professional dreams. You have enough money but will continue to agonize over every penny. You will be embarrassed whenever anyone asks about your work, even though you don't care what they think. Perhaps you will be unable to ever remove the sadness from your heart.

It sounds sort of miserable to me, the way you describe it. I wouldn't want to retire either if I felt like that!

I agree.

I just arrived at a place in life where I am free to pursue my professional dreams and have returned to it in some capacity. It feels like I am just getting started yet the industry says otherwise. As a result of my age, I am sidelined from my goal and it is a crushing realization. I spent much of my youth effectively forcibly retired and I did not like it. I do not wish to buy an RV and ride off into the sunset. I do not wish to volunteer or take any more yoga classes. I am sick of hobbies to fill time.

I don't want to retire since it feels like I never was able to get started.

maizeman

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Re: I don't want to retire
« Reply #106 on: January 19, 2019, 07:38:30 PM »
Thanks MonkeyJenga, I think you've put your finger on why it felt like I wasn't making any progress here.

Skyhigh, it seems to me like you're shifting what you are unhappy about as people propose solutions to different apparent complaints. That's a pattern I've seen enough from people in my field to know it's a frequent phenotypic marker for depression. (They start from feeling unhappy and then try to identify potential causes for why they feel unhappy. If a particular cause turns out not to make sense or be easily addressable, they'll shift to something else, because after all, they really do genuinely feel extremely unhappy and down).

Obviously I'm not a therapist, and even if I was one I couldn't diagnosis someone over the internet. But it couldn't hurt to schedule a time to go in for a checkup (just like you probably stop by your regular physician every year or two to make sure everything is in working order), right?

Skyhigh

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Re: I don't want to retire
« Reply #107 on: January 19, 2019, 07:39:40 PM »
I can't tell what your true issue is, because you keep making arguments about things that are bad to experience (ex: stressing over every penny) but then saying you don't do that. I will join a couple other people in recommending therapy.

Like, if you're worried in advance about losing your current income because you have no other useful skills, then take the time now to learn some skills that can get you a boring desk job.

If assurances of financial stability don't do it, and you still just regret the past, that's therapy time.

I am trying to explain from different perspectives to different people. I am sure that it is confusing. I have a dream that will go unfulfilled. I chose to pursue FIRE and when it came time to go back to working on my goal it had dissipated. That's all.

Skyhigh

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Re: I don't want to retire
« Reply #108 on: January 19, 2019, 07:51:07 PM »
Thanks MonkeyJenga, I think you've put your finger on why it felt like I wasn't making any progress here.

Skyhigh, it seems to me like you're shifting what you are unhappy about as people propose solutions to different apparent complaints. That's a pattern I've seen enough from people in my field to know it's a frequent phenotypic marker for depression. (They start from feeling unhappy and then try to identify potential causes for why they feel unhappy. If a particular cause turns out not to make sense or be easily addressable, they'll shift to something else, because after all, they really do genuinely feel extremely unhappy and down).

Obviously I'm not a therapist, and even if I was one I couldn't diagnosis someone over the internet. But it couldn't hurt to schedule a time to go in for a checkup (just like you probably stop by your regular physician every year or two to make sure everything is in working order), right?

Thank you for your input. It is wise to consider issues from many different perspectives. It is also possible that I have a perspective that many here have not experienced. I had not received a paycheck from an employer for nearly 16 years before I
 was able to return to my chosen profession. My peer group is also largely financially independent. They have experienced hardships to the lifestyle as well. I have some considerable experience with FIRE. It is possible that some here are placing a lot of faith into this outcome and have not completely considered the ramifications of it.

Take as an example the fate of lottery winners. A year later they are often less happy as the result of their new lifestyle. Because I am expressing some dissatisfaction with my situation does not necessarily mean that I am depressed. Perhaps I have some genuine issues that others here may encounter? Maybe my experience should be considered? What if my position needs to be seen as false and a reason needs to be created?

maizeman

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Re: I don't want to retire
« Reply #109 on: January 19, 2019, 08:06:49 PM »
Thanks MonkeyJenga, I think you've put your finger on why it felt like I wasn't making any progress here.

Skyhigh, it seems to me like you're shifting what you are unhappy about as people propose solutions to different apparent complaints. That's a pattern I've seen enough from people in my field to know it's a frequent phenotypic marker for depression. (They start from feeling unhappy and then try to identify potential causes for why they feel unhappy. If a particular cause turns out not to make sense or be easily addressable, they'll shift to something else, because after all, they really do genuinely feel extremely unhappy and down).

Obviously I'm not a therapist, and even if I was one I couldn't diagnosis someone over the internet. But it couldn't hurt to schedule a time to go in for a checkup (just like you probably stop by your regular physician every year or two to make sure everything is in working order), right?

....

Because I am expressing some dissatisfaction with my situation does not necessarily mean that I am depressed. Perhaps I have some genuine issues that others here may encounter? Maybe my experience should be considered? What if my position needs to be seen as false and a reason needs to be created?

I dislike that you are misrepresenting my statement. Note that 1) I did not state you were depressed 2) the reason I suggested that you should consider that you may be depressed was not that you were expressing some dissatisfaction with your life but because you constantly shift your explanation for being unhappy whenever anyone proposes a way to address one of the several issues you have stated in different posts to be the reason you are unhappy and dismissed any and all suggestions for how you might improve either your situation or state of mind.

I also dislike that you present depression as being mutually exclusive with facing genuine issues. Many depressed people also face significant challenges in life. You don't get to hand wave away all those other challenges just because they are also depressed.

But anyway, in the context of our discussion the latter is a side issue.

1) If you want to continue to be unhappy and unsatisfied with your life, keep doing what you are doing.
2) If you don't, I propose you devise some approaches to try to change your life (you have a range of suggestions from this thread, but obviously you know your situation best so maybe you can think of something even more effective).
3) If you won't do anything to try to be happy/satisfied again because you feel powerless and hopeless and that no change you make is ever going to lead to you feeling happy/satisfied again, yes that would be quite consistent with depression.

Those are basically the three options any of us face when we feel the way that you sound like you do. FIRE or no FIRE.

bacchi

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Re: I don't want to retire
« Reply #110 on: January 19, 2019, 08:32:43 PM »
For the sake of politeness I haven't said it but - troll post.

Yep. Troll.

Dicey

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Re: I don't want to retire
« Reply #111 on: January 19, 2019, 08:46:06 PM »
Sounds like you won a Golden Globe but are disappointed that it wasn't an Oscar. I don't say this often, but a little therapy to unpack why you feel this way might help you shed this hair shirt you insist on wearing. Fact is, you WON! Sad that you aren't willing/able to allow yourself to enjoy it.

I am thankful to have achieved FIRE but nothing will get my 20's and 30's back. No amount of self-indulgence would replace my dream. I was forced to achieve FIRE out a need to support myself. Life is easier these days but I wish I could achieve my professional goals.
Dude, seriously, nobody gets their 20's and 30's back! And most people never hit FIRE, either. I feel sorry that you are unwilling and unable to see how blessed you are. Careers and professions are always changing. You simply weren't born at the right time to achieve your dream. Yet, you achieved success anyway. Why you sneer at it is the real question, one that only you can answer.

Dicey

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Re: I don't want to retire
« Reply #112 on: January 19, 2019, 08:52:43 PM »
It took some digging to find this story, but I have always loved it. I had never even seen the movie when I read this in Guideposts magazine years ago, but it stuck with me. It didn't turn up in a google search just now, but I finally found it on the Guideposts website.

https://www.guideposts.org/better-living/life-advice/finding-life-purpose/a-christmas-house

@Skyhigh, I'd suggest you read the shit out of this story. And then thank your lucky stars for what you've been able to do for yourself.

lhamo

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Re: I don't want to retire
« Reply #113 on: January 19, 2019, 09:45:30 PM »
Also might want to try reading Victor Frankl's Man's Search for Meaning.

The problem isn't FIRE, it is your mindset. 

I spent years in grad school, learned two extremely difficult Asian languages in order to pursue the research I was interested in, and at the end of it all the academic job market was in the toilet and the chances of landing a tenure track position were slim to none.  So I went into non-profit work.  Pay was never great -- less than I would have made as a professor most likely -- but we had some luck in real estate and I FIREd at 46.  It has been great.  Was able to help my aging mom when she most needed it.  Have spent lots of time with my kids, in my garden and on the trails.  Might eventually get a part time gig doing something productive.

Some friends and family still ask innocently why I don't get a job as a professor.  AS IF!  That ship sailed long ago.  No point dreaming about something that isn't going to happen.

There are all kinds of problems that need to be solved in this world. Probably many in your own community that could use your input.  Going around in endless mental circles about your lost pilot career isn't helping anybody, especially not yourself.  If you aren't willing to seek the help of a therapist, maybe try doing something to help other people.  Much greater chance of getting to the peak of the self-actualization pyramid via that route than continuing to mope about what will never be.

A mom

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Re: I don't want to retire
« Reply #114 on: January 20, 2019, 10:32:22 AM »
What llhamo said.

spartana

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Re: I don't want to retire
« Reply #115 on: January 20, 2019, 10:46:04 AM »
What llhamo said.
Ditto!

OP I'm curious as to what you mean by reaching FIRE and your definition of it. You say you reached FI at 28 and chose to be a ski bum for a few years then start building a real estate business rather than continue to work in an aviation-related field. And that put you far behind the competition once the aviation jobs returned. You seem to blame FI on that rather than your own.life and career choices. If you were truly FI at 28 and were free from the burden of having to have a job, why didn't you stay working in.the aviation field? Why did you chose to be a ski bum or start a business unrelated to flying/aviation? If you were FI so young and didn't need money why did you continue to do things you disliked so much career-wise? FI opens doors it doesn't close them. Once free from the need to work you can follow ANY path regardless how much it pays. FIRE isn't about leisurely pursuits, its about the ability to follow your dreams and passions with wild abandon and worry free about the drudgery of having to feed, clothe and shelter yourself any longer. So if you were truly FI and RE at 28 why did you chose your path when you could have chosen anything?

Cassie

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Re: I don't want to retire
« Reply #116 on: January 20, 2019, 11:06:00 AM »
I know someone thatís 80 and still flying to help Pilots and Paws. Says itís one of the most rewarding things he has ever done. You are choosing to wallow. Life could be much worse.

Miss Piggy

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Re: I don't want to retire
« Reply #117 on: January 20, 2019, 11:43:35 AM »
@Skyhigh - I think you've received some great comments, thoughts, and toughlove in this thread. But I'm curious: What motivated you to start this thread in the first place? What are you hoping to gain from the discussion?

jim555

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Re: I don't want to retire
« Reply #118 on: January 20, 2019, 12:32:25 PM »
The OPs postings are fake and unconvincing and the facts don't even make sense.

koshtra

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Re: I don't want to retire
« Reply #119 on: January 20, 2019, 05:46:58 PM »
I kinda suspect that OP heard about early retirement somewhere and wanted to go warn people that they'd be sorry if they did it, without really knowing what we're about here, and then he got unexpectedly interested in how we responded. It doesn't entirely fit my definition of trolling, but it possibly it was not entirely straight either. The story did shift oddly as the thread went on. 

God help us though, imagine living with that internalized contempt for nonprofessional work -- having put in all that effort and deployed all that skill and intelligence, and then to be ashamed of it! And to really think that the whole world would have the same contempt: that's sad. That part rang true.

BPA

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Re: I don't want to retire
« Reply #120 on: January 20, 2019, 06:30:09 PM »
I don't think he is trolling. He has a fairly long history of posting. I suspect @maizeman is correct.

I read some past posts because I initially wondered if he were trolling, and he's often been a bit brooding. Maybe these recent posts are a manifestation of depression.

I feel really sad for him that he seems stuck and unable to enjoy life because of what in many respects is a problem of privilege.

@Skyhigh : Please seriously consider therapy. I don't say that to be mean. I've been to therapy before. It may be what you need to find meaning in your life. None of us achieve all of our dreams, but we still manage to find happiness. Best of luck.

frugal_c

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Re: I don't want to retire
« Reply #121 on: January 20, 2019, 08:11:11 PM »
Thank you for sharing SkyHigh, I can identify with this.  My family is not at fire yet but it is kind of just a matter of time.   We are close enough that I am starting to think of the purpose to which I am retiring.  I can see how it would be difficult.  I will certainly need to have some type of business or part-time job on the go to feel fulfilled.

If I understand your dilemna, you cannot find your desired job in the airline industry due to age.  I think you have to accept it and find a different outlet.  Surely there is some other career that you can break into and if not, is there not some type of business that would scratch the itch?  Would you consider going back to school for some different career option?

BicycleB

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Re: I don't want to retire
« Reply #122 on: January 20, 2019, 10:13:41 PM »
Maybe you have lost the opportunity you will ever have to accomplish your professional dreams. You have enough money but will continue to agonize over every penny. You will be embarrassed whenever anyone asks about your work, even though you don't care what they think. Perhaps you will be unable to ever remove the sadness from your heart.

It sounds sort of miserable to me, the way you describe it. I wouldn't want to retire either if I felt like that!

I agree.

I just arrived at a place in life where I am free to pursue my professional dreams and have returned to it in some capacity. It feels like I am just getting started yet the industry says otherwise. As a result of my age, I am sidelined from my goal and it is a crushing realization. I spent much of my youth effectively forcibly retired and I did not like it. I do not wish to buy an RV and ride off into the sunset. I do not wish to volunteer or take any more yoga classes. I am sick of hobbies to fill time.

I don't want to retire since it feels like I never was able to get started.

It sounds like you felt bad during much of your youth (your 20s and 30s), and now that the youth period has gone, you still feel bad. You have clearly stated you didn't get your chosen career and won't ever get it. So now you feel bad again!

Other people keep offering suggestions as to how to stop feeling bad, but you keep shutting down each suggestion, or ignoring them and repeating your earlier desolate statements. Does it seem to you that people just aren't believing your experience?

It sounds like people are assuming that you are in search of solutions, but you sound like you just want someone to hear how horribly disappointing an experience it has been to not achieve your professional desires. Is that what you're after?