Author Topic: How open are you about your FIRE or FIRE plans?  (Read 47371 times)

FIREby35

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Re: How open are you about your FIRE or FIRE plans?
« Reply #50 on: May 14, 2016, 08:19:38 AM »
I don't understand.

I've never mentioned our financial status to anyone else....There are definitely good reasons for this, most notably - not getting sued.

Why would you get sued?


...I plan to tell no one once we FIRE because I don't want to become a target.
I'd like to think the chances of that happening are small but I don't want to find out the hard way.

Why would you become a target?

Because there are still very bad people in the world. They're not a myth. They can call and lie to the police. They can rob you. They can hire a lawyer under false pretenses. There are even more people who aren't necessarily bad but do justify actions like these by placing you in the "have" category and them in the "have not" category and proceeding with whatever theft or malice they may have.

Also, just because someone is your friend and isn't desperate today, doesn't mean they're going to be your friend and no desperate tomorrow.

Sounds a little paranoid... No one is suggesting you cover yourself in 100 dollar bills walk through the South Side at night.
Please don't think it requires taping 100 dollar bills to yourself and walking through the 'hood to become a target. There are plenty of "opportunists" out there. I used to have a co-worker would would look for sidewalks where they weren't properly maintained during icy conditions in the winter and if he just happened to slip and fall then he felt justified filing suit against whoever's responsibility it was to maintain said sidewalk. I consider it one of those instances of "why even allow that door to exist so that someone could open it?" We've all seen frivolous lawsuits where the plaintiff wins.

Even if he/she doesn't win, it can still cost a bundle and be a headache.

I actually just got done settling a lawsuit.  It was related to a car accident over a year ago.  Thankfully the individual suing us had no idea what we were worth.  They asked for a mere pittance compared to our net worth.  It could have been much worse. 

Read more about it here: http://www.mrtakoescapes.com/2016/04/18/getting-sued-mental-age/
and the follow-up here: http://www.mrtakoescapes.com/2016/04/29/lawsuit-update-shop-table/

I look at it as a very good warning.  The world is sometimes not a nice place.

Hey guys, I just want to drop something in here about the lawsuits. First, I am a Plaintiff's lawyer, which means I file these lawsuits after a car accident or something. I want you to all take a deep breath. With total respect, you are wrong about the lawsuits. This is a manageable risk that really should not take up your headspace.

First, Mr. Tako did you notice it wasn't a problem because your insurance company paid for your attorney? Yeah, that is part of the plan and totally normal. If you have insurance, it includes a "duty to defend" and pay for your attorney.

Second, everyone has liability insurance (Mr. Tako you have up to $50k in insurance). What you don't know is the other person has additional insurance (called Underinsured Motorist Coverage) that covers losses after your insurance is exhausted. Your insurance company will insist on a release of liability when they pay the limit of your insurance and the other attorney will accept so he can go after that second insurance policy.

Third, I have been a plaintiff's attorney for years and know dozens of others. Let me get you in on the secret: Many, many Plaintiff's attorneys have EXCLUSIVELY won insurance money for their entire career. That means your "stealth wealth" is not even an issue. Also, MMM's lawsuits had nothing to do with his money. That is a totally different situation.

Fourth, as for the sheriff showing up with papers and shocking you about something you presumed was over, I always offer to have the defense attorney simply "waive service" (that means, your attorney simply signs papers in his office and calls you to tell you about the filing of the lawsuit). They never accept. I presume it is so you will be scared and angry and, in the best case scenario, write a blog post blasting the litigious nature of our society which spreads the point of view of insurance companies. All of that benefits the insurance companies on a macro-level. As you can imagine, Plaintiff's lawyers and Insurance companies are involved in a long running P.R. battle. I'll hand it to the insurance companies, they are winning and have been for a long time. It seems no one like's Plaintiff's attorneys, until they need one.

Ok, so even if you don't believe anything I said, here is the solution: increase your auto liability limits and get an umbrella policy for a million bucks. It will cost you a pittance and you can sleep at night. Note: the insurance company wins again! You would be buying even more insurance. Although, I admit to owning $1.5 million in auto/umbrella insurance.

Finally, sorry for the derailment. I actually posted because I think this information might reduce some fear (Feel free to PM me Mr. Tako if you want some additional info about your situation). Also, cue the insurance defense attorney to come tell you a horror story. I won't respond, so you'll have to decide for yourself what you think.

Cyaphas

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Re: How open are you about your FIRE or FIRE plans?
« Reply #51 on: May 14, 2016, 08:54:20 AM »

Finally, sorry for the derailment. I actually posted because I think this information might reduce some fear (Feel free to PM me Mr. Tako if you want some additional info about your situation). Also, cue the insurance defense attorney to come tell you a horror story. I won't respond, so you'll have to decide for yourself what you think.


Thank you for the information. Experts opinion is always appreciated.

Spork

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Re: How open are you about your FIRE or FIRE plans?
« Reply #52 on: May 14, 2016, 09:18:54 AM »

Ok, so even if you don't believe anything I said, here is the solution: increase your auto liability limits and get an umbrella policy for a million bucks. It will cost you a pittance and you can sleep at night. Note: the insurance company wins again! You would be buying even more insurance. Although, I admit to owning $1.5 million in auto/umbrella insurance.


Just an additional data point here.  A friend that is an insurance agent tells me there is another distinct advantage to owning a $1M+ umbrella.  Sure they provide a lawyer if you just have minimum liability.  But if you have a big policy, you're getting lawyers from a totally different pool.  If bigger money is involved, then bigger guns are hired by the insurance company to defend it.

avrex

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Re: How open are you about your FIRE or FIRE plans?
« Reply #53 on: May 14, 2016, 11:15:01 AM »
Mr. Tako.
Thank you for sharing your story/posts.

...Thankfully the individual suing us had no idea what we were worth.  They asked for a mere pittance compared to our net worth.  It could have been much worse. 

Read more about it here: http://www.mrtakoescapes.com/2016/04/18/getting-sued-mental-age/
and the follow-up here: http://www.mrtakoescapes.com/2016/04/29/lawsuit-update-shop-table/

I look at it as a very good warning.  The world is sometimes not a nice place.

and thanks to FIREby35 for sharing his thoughts.

I am a Plaintiff's lawyer....This is a manageable risk that really should not take up your headspace.


It's good to have information on both sides of topic.

This discussion is all very relevant to the thread topic of "How open are you about being FI".

I've always wondered/worried, what the level of risk is of individuals possibly being targeted based on that fact that they are financial independent.




LAL

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Re: How open are you about your FIRE or FIRE plans?
« Reply #54 on: May 14, 2016, 01:01:32 PM »
I hedge.  Since we moved cross country and don't "work" we're not normal.  DH will work because he wants to (i asked if he didn't want to just FIRE) and he said no.  So off to work, but he's decided if he hates working he'll quit again. 

No one in our families get it. We're constantly told to be climbing the ladder making more.  Nevermind if we have enough. There never is enough.  Anyway for friends a few have asked and I just said we live modestly and saved.

steveo

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Re: How open are you about your FIRE or FIRE plans?
« Reply #55 on: May 14, 2016, 04:47:37 PM »
Until you are actually retired, there are few benefits and many potential disadvantages to disclosing this to co-workers, friends and family.

This is my thoughts on this topic as well. I'm an open person but I don't think you get anything out of telling people. I intend to retire and not even tell people. I did tell people my plans but for instance my parents think I'm nuts.

I can also see one of my friends asking me out for drinks at the pub regularly which would soon derail my FIRE experience.

Livingthedream2015

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Re: How open are you about your FIRE or FIRE plans?
« Reply #56 on: May 14, 2016, 11:56:28 PM »
Jim555 sums it up for me. Everytime I tell someone you can tell immediately that they begin to lose interest in what your saying, and don't really understand what you are saying. They are mostly to concerned about what new feature the iPhone has, checking their Facebook status or discussing something totally irelevant like a celebrity..they almost always complain they have no money, but are not interested in listening to how I retired at 35..suits me just fine; I'm very happy living on a tropical island, and tonight is Sunday, I'll pop out to a beach bar later, instead of being at home on a Sunday night dreading the coming work week...

markbike528CBX

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Re: How open are you about your FIRE or FIRE plans?
« Reply #57 on: May 17, 2016, 10:12:35 AM »
I don't think I've ever explicitly mentioned FIRE topics, but everyone assumes I'm loaded and wonder why I'm still working (a reasonable question).

I married late (46), 2nd car ever (46.5), house (48, oldest 1st time home buyer for real estate agent).

I tend to downplay or deflect any specifics, but everyone seems to know more than I remember stating or implying.   I have encouraged fellow employees to maximize 401K etc.

formerlydivorcedmom

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Re: How open are you about your FIRE or FIRE plans?
« Reply #58 on: May 17, 2016, 03:07:47 PM »
We have a long way to go to be good Mustachians, but we are working our plan.  Most of my coworkers know that a) I have short-, medium-, and long-term financial goals and that b) one of them is to retire by age 49 (about 11 years from now).  A few of them have laughed at me because they can't imagine ever being able to afford to retire.  Two have sought me ought to ask financial questions.

My immediate family knows my goals.  My mother retired at 59.5, and she and I discuss finances in some detail.   My sister is finally trying to figure out her finances.  She called me the other day to ask what an IRA is and how can she get one. 

I have regular finances discussions with two of my closest friends.  We learn from each other.

Frugal-Investor

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Re: How open are you about your FIRE or FIRE plans?
« Reply #59 on: May 18, 2016, 06:12:29 PM »
We've been retired 2 years now at 56 and 54, though my SO has a very part-time IT job so is FI-semi-RE. Of course, SO and I talked about all this in depth, amounting to more than 20 years of planning. Before I left my last job, I had in-depth discussions with my manager because we had developed a high level of trust in each other over years of difficult projects. Aside from her, I didn't communicate that I was financially independent and was vague about my reasons for leaving with work buddies: "It's been a good run," and, "seems like a good time to take a break."

My thinking was this. Talking about how I don't have to work any longer would seem like a slap at colleagues I know and trust. I've avoided discussions with friends and family about the specifics. They know we earned well and see we drive old cars. I was surprised when I saw that these folks were seemed more comfortable when I waffled..."maybe I'll get bored and will do contract work or consult a bit." While I'm proud of what we've accomplished, I'm also wary about my motives to share info. I'm proud of our FIRE status, but the motivation that got us here was intrinsic. Being very open about it seems a bit more like bragging about a trophy than is comfortable.

Dicey

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Re: How open are you about your FIRE or FIRE plans?
« Reply #60 on: May 26, 2016, 01:35:38 PM »
It's so different here at MMM, where so many people obsess over networth and savings rates etc.
MM, while I agree with a good part of your response, I take strong issue with the comment above.

Of course it's different here, that's the purpose of this forum. This is a safe place to come, discuss goals, study, learn and finally and most importantly achieve these goals. If we were a bunch of say, crossfitters discussing weightlifting within the confines of a gym, it wouldn't be all that different. Except, of course, once one achieves FI and RE, they can hang out at the gym as long as they want. Alternatively,  they may chose to live on islands and circumnavigate them in kayaks instead of hanging out in stinky gyms lifting boring dead weights...

THIS is the place to discuss exactly THOSE things. Therefore, it's completely appropriate to do so. Focus, drive and determination should never be confused with obsession.

FireLane

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Re: How open are you about your FIRE or FIRE plans?
« Reply #61 on: May 27, 2016, 06:04:06 PM »
I've told my parents, who are good with money and financially comfortable, about our FIRE plans. We haven't told my wife's side of the family, and we don't plan to. There's a lot of financial distress and bad spending decisions among them, and if we tried to explain it, all they would hear is that we're rich. The last thing we want is for them to start asking for loans and bailouts.

I've told some close friends about our plans, and I'd like to tell more, because I think FIRE is a great idea and I'd want someone to tell me about it if our positions were reversed. But I struggle with how to do it in a way that doesn't seem like I'm boasting or judgey. One way that's worked so far is to drop a few hints about early retirement when I get the opportunity, and if they seem interested, slowly let them in on more of the details. But that means waiting for the topic to come up naturally in conversation.

Shane

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Re: How open are you about your FIRE or FIRE plans?
« Reply #62 on: May 30, 2016, 03:05:11 AM »
I told my dentist because he seemed genuinely interested in learning more about how he could retire.

The next time my wife and I went in for a check up and cleaning, he charged us a lot more. :(

Maybe I should've let him go on feeling sorry for us for being unemployed...

markbike528CBX

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Re: How open are you about your FIRE or FIRE plans?
« Reply #63 on: May 30, 2016, 01:09:04 PM »
I told my dentist because he seemed genuinely interested ...
The next time...., he charged us a lot more. :(      ......

I usually have shown up to the teeth cleaning on my 1993 motorcycle (full fairing, good condition). Tech chit-chats, nothing substantive in the conversation.

The first time I arrived in my 2000 Porche Boxster (same price in 2011 as a Nissan Cube), I got the full court press sales pitch for orthodontia.     Not quite a Mustaschian People Problem.

BTDretire

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Re: How open are you about your FIRE or FIRE plans?
« Reply #64 on: May 30, 2016, 04:28:27 PM »
  We don't talk about FIRE or money with family members.
But, they sure do a lot of gossip about how much money we
make and must have!
 Most of the family is self employed and have all made a lot of money, but didn't
save or invest. We have a small business and earn $15hr to $17hr, it
varies a little year to year. So, basically two McDonolds workers in Seattle.
  Two differences, we average about 110 hrs a week between the two of us,
and we live very frugally. We don't eat out, we haven't taken a vacation since
2001, our newest vehicle is 2007, and that's a business vehicle, we recently upgraded
from a 97.
  We hear little things here and there about our wealth, but everyone way over estimates our
income. It doesn't help that my wife's dad nicknamed her 'RICH'* in their native language, many of those in
her community run with that.
 She had someone ask her this weekend if we made $10,000 a week!
Rumors, kinda sucks.
 We make a good living but no where near the gossip.

* he called her RICH, because he got rich after she was born.

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!