Author Topic: Guilt about quitting?  (Read 5642 times)

HovEratoTo

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Guilt about quitting?
« on: August 01, 2018, 09:01:46 AM »
Hi everyone,

For those who are close to FIRE or have FIREd, do/did you feel guilty about quitting your job? I know I want to leave, and sooner than later. But I keep thinking of how I'll disappoint my boss and my team members. I feel bad about potentially leaving projects half done. There will probably never  be a perfect time to leave. There will always be more projects to do. My team will probably always need extra (wo)manpower for one thing or another.

But I'm getting really excited to leave. I've had an up and down relationship with my job over the last nearly 9 years, and I'm so ready for a change. A friend and I have been working on a business idea together. I just want some time and space to decompress, think about this business idea, enjoy more time with my family, and let go of some of the damage from past burnout from this job.

For what it's worth, we are at about 81% of our bare bones FI goal. For our full cushy FI goal, we're about 64% of the way there. Our house is paid for and, after moving a few months ago from a spendy-pants HCOL area to a place that's more reasonable, we've steadily brought our monthly spending rate down. We've already made a 10% spending reduction and expect it will continue to drop. My husband will be keeping his FT job with great benefits (though I know that's never a sure-thing). If I'm out of work for awhile our savings rate will drop noticeably but I'm starting to think that if you can't slow down and enjoy life at 81% of FI, what's the point?

So all that's to say, financially we're in a good place and I feel good about the savings structure we have. But this guilt about quitting is rearing it's ugly head and trying to prevent me from making what I'm sure is the right decision! Words of wisdom?

Financial.Velociraptor

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Re: Guilt about quitting?
« Reply #1 on: August 01, 2018, 09:12:54 AM »
Your relationship with your employer is primarily an economic one.  If the market changed and they couldn't afford you anymore, they would drop you like a hot rock.  Have no shame in leaving the job.  I liked the people I worked with (most of them) and keep in touch.  I schedule a monthly "lunch bunch" in M2 so they are not pressured by quarter end close and we eat at the little deli across the street from the old office so they can just walk over, not lose a parking place, and not give up 1-1/2 hours.  Hell they can get it down to 30 minutes in a pinch.  I also text encouragement during monthly and quarter end close dates.  Not one person called me a son-of-a-bitch for taking my leave.  Do what is right for you and keep people central to your life.

soccerluvof4

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Re: Guilt about quitting?
« Reply #2 on: August 01, 2018, 10:45:42 AM »
I agree with the F. Raptor completely. You shouldn't feel guilty about leaving a job and trying to better your life no matter what that means for you!

Retire-Canada

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Re: Guilt about quitting?
« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2018, 10:53:30 AM »
Hi everyone,

For those who are close to FIRE or have FIREd, do/did you feel guilty about quitting your job? I know I want to leave, and sooner than later. But I keep thinking of how I'll disappoint my boss and my team members. I feel bad about potentially leaving projects half done. There will probably never  be a perfect time to leave. There will always be more projects to do. My team will probably always need extra (wo)manpower for one thing or another.

I feel bad because one of my clients really relies on me and when I leave it will be a big transition for them. They've been very nice to me and I've become friends with them so it's not just work at play. What I have done/plan to do to make myself feel good about the transition:

1. give them lots of notice
2. be flexible about the transition

I've given them a head's up that I will be retiring soonish. I have let them know I'll be giving them at least 6 months notice when I have a firm date in mind and that the notice will come next year most likely. Once I am ready to FIRE I'll give them the 6 months notice and offer to come back as needed for training or support as long as it's limited part-time support.

I feel like that's ^^ going above and beyond to make the transition as painless as it can be. I'll have no regrets or bad feelings about leaving with this plan.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2018, 02:39:39 PM by Retire-Canada »

TartanTallulah

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Re: Guilt about quitting?
« Reply #4 on: August 01, 2018, 12:31:18 PM »
Guilt is in my mix of emotions about quitting my job, but any attachment I feel to my job is just nostalgia and Stockholm syndrome. It's been institutionally abusive for a long time and it's broken me once before. I know I'll be leaving my remaining colleagues in a difficult position. That gives me no satisfaction at all. I also know they'd have done the same to me in a heartbeat if they could afford to, and if I stayed they'd continue to do as little as they could get away with knowing that I'd mop up after them.

I was asked to work One More Month. I saw the thin end of a wedge and said no.

I've promised to be fully committed to the job until the day I'm not there any more. That'll have to do.

TheWifeHalf

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Re: Guilt about quitting?
« Reply #5 on: August 01, 2018, 01:08:45 PM »
TheHusbandHalf is going to retire in January, with no guilt. His opinion is that his quitting will open the job up for the next guy moving up, and that will mean a good job for a new hire.

He doesn't feel like he's doing anyone a favor, but that is one way top look at it.

jim555

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Re: Guilt about quitting?
« Reply #6 on: August 01, 2018, 01:25:27 PM »
Not at all.  Dues have been paid time to leave.

Fishindude

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Re: Guilt about quitting?
« Reply #7 on: August 01, 2018, 02:15:50 PM »
I transitioned out working part time for a full year, then told them feel free to call anytime if they needed me for anything.
Life will go on at work without us.

sol

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Re: Guilt about quitting?
« Reply #8 on: August 01, 2018, 02:35:41 PM »
I have seven working days left, and I have no guilt at all.  I am absolutely screwing them over on one big project, too. 

Not my problem anymore!  I gave them a chance to keep me, and I was clear about what I needed in order to stay, and they said no.  They chose this outcome.  Why would I feel guilty?

Are you quitting without giving them a choice?  What would they say if you asked for a promotion, or a raise, or a corner office, or whatever else has value to you?  Everyone has a price.  You can ask for a 30% raise and the ability to telework three days/week.  You can ask for a company car, or profit sharing, or a sabbatical.  You have all of the power to frame the negotiation, then they have the option to take it or leave it or counter offer.

Employment is supposed to be a mutually beneficial relationship.  They are always going to make the choices that benefit them, not you.  As soon they figure out that it's too costly to keep you, they will hurry you out the door with a smile and you can move on completely guilt free. 

HovEratoTo

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Re: Guilt about quitting?
« Reply #9 on: August 01, 2018, 03:00:49 PM »
Thank you everyone for the perspective. That seems to be a unanimous "don't feel guilty"! :)

I have seven working days left, and I have no guilt at all.  I am absolutely screwing them over on one big project, too. 

Not my problem anymore!  I gave them a chance to keep me, and I was clear about what I needed in order to stay, and they said no.  They chose this outcome.  Why would I feel guilty?

Are you quitting without giving them a choice?  What would they say if you asked for a promotion, or a raise, or a corner office, or whatever else has value to you?  Everyone has a price.  You can ask for a 30% raise and the ability to telework three days/week.  You can ask for a company car, or profit sharing, or a sabbatical.  You have all of the power to frame the negotiation, then they have the option to take it or leave it or counter offer.

Employment is supposed to be a mutually beneficial relationship.  They are always going to make the choices that benefit them, not you.  As soon they figure out that it's too costly to keep you, they will hurry you out the door with a smile and you can move on completely guilt free. 

I would give the standard two week notice. This is an interesting question. I'm not sure they could do anything to make me want to stay. I already work remote full time now, have a good salary, have a great team, have good benefits. I just no longer love the work, I'm finding that even though I've achieved some balance it's not enough to recover from a few years of burnout. They'd have to pay me millions of dollars to stay, at this point, and that's not going to happen.

I've got the "life's too short" bug and it just won't let up. I don't want to spend any more days not enjoying my life.

sol

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Re: Guilt about quitting?
« Reply #10 on: August 01, 2018, 03:35:56 PM »
They'd have to pay me millions of dollars to stay, at this point, and that's not going to happen.

Everyone has a price.  Would you stay if they doubled your salary, but also halved your hours?  Sometimes your price isn't measured in dollars.

wordnerd

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Re: Guilt about quitting?
« Reply #11 on: August 01, 2018, 04:52:57 PM »
I definitely feel some guilt, especially since my boss left at the same time and the team is going through a lot of change. But no one is irreplaceable, least of all me.

middo

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Re: Guilt about quitting?
« Reply #12 on: August 01, 2018, 05:39:30 PM »
I can understand some feelings of guilt.  I left my job (of 16 years) reasonably unexpectedly, for a nine month leave-of-absence to move interstate.  I am a teacher, and had for three or four years encouraged a number of more able students to aim high in their mathematics.  I was their year 11 teacher in Specialist Maths (think calculus), and started their final year (yr 12).  I had nurtured them, and then had to "pull the pin" on them 9 months before their final exams.

I felt guilty, but they will cope, and they need to learn that life goes on unexpected paths.

When you retire, others will cope.  Some may find that extra responsibility is given to them.  Some may see you leave and start thinking themselves.  It can be a time of growth for them, rather than just something for you to feel guilty about.

Your primary responsibility is to yourself and your family.  They should always come first.

HovEratoTo

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Re: Guilt about quitting?
« Reply #13 on: August 01, 2018, 07:02:36 PM »

Everyone has a price.  Would you stay if they doubled your salary, but also halved your hours?  Sometimes your price isn't measured in dollars.

Ah, now halving my hours while keeping my current salary might do it. I doubt they'd go for it, but couldn't hurt to ask if I'm on my way out the door!

HovEratoTo

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Re: Guilt about quitting?
« Reply #14 on: August 01, 2018, 07:05:41 PM »
Your relationship with your employer is primarily an economic one.  If the market changed and they couldn't afford you anymore, they would drop you like a hot rock.  Have no shame in leaving the job.  I liked the people I worked with (most of them) and keep in touch.  I schedule a monthly "lunch bunch" in M2 so they are not pressured by quarter end close and we eat at the little deli across the street from the old office so they can just walk over, not lose a parking place, and not give up 1-1/2 hours.  Hell they can get it down to 30 minutes in a pinch.  I also text encouragement during monthly and quarter end close dates.  Not one person called me a son-of-a-bitch for taking my leave.  Do what is right for you and keep people central to your life.

This is impressive! I hope to maintain some friendships. I've also been terribly lucky with bosses - all of mine have been great. I guess that's part of the guilt - many people have to deal with so much worse.

LifePhaseTwo

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Re: Guilt about quitting?
« Reply #15 on: August 01, 2018, 09:42:38 PM »
Very timely post for me...after a lot of waffling and soul-searching, Iím about to give notice to my employer of 27 years. I donít feel at all guilty about the effect on my boss or anyone higher up the food chain, but I do feel a bit guilty for leaving the great team of employees who report to me. A couple of them joined my team in order to be mentored by me. But theyíre keen and creative and will find other mentors. And Iím giving plenty of notice - Nov 2 will be my last day, and even though I have a bunch of accrued vacation to burn through, theyíll get a total of 6 weeks of my time. So I should be able to sleep with a clear conscience post-FIRE.

Blackbeard

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Re: Guilt about quitting?
« Reply #16 on: August 02, 2018, 07:24:43 AM »
A very timely post for me as well.  I gave my company notice about six weeks ago.  After they picked their mouths off the ground they negotiated me staying for about three months at three times my normal salary.  So you do have some say in how you go out.  I like to refer to my severance agreement as the ďDonít be a Dick ContractĒ.  All of the stipulations are around not saying anything derogatory on the way out about the company or the people and they wonít either.

I donít feel guilt about leaving the company or 99% of the people.  I did recruit two people that I had long worked with 15+ yr relationships.  Theyíre highly compensated and they knew the risks of this type of business.  Iím 30 minutes away from telling them.  I was also able to negotiate retention packages for them.  So Iím guilt free.  Theyíre response is going to be interesting.

Iím ready to get it off my chest. 

Car Jack

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Re: Guilt about quitting?
« Reply #17 on: August 02, 2018, 11:06:14 AM »
I once left a job as a key technical person to work for a vendor as a technical support person for the sales team.  Since my old employer was going to be one of my key customers, I did my best to make the transition easy.  I gave them 7 weeks notice.  You'd think they'd go out and find someone to spend a month with me learning the job and the company.  Nope.  A few weeks out, they found someone.  The person did overlap with me for a week.

I'm very close to going.  I'm over my FI number but some large outflows right now (think college full boat times 2) are holding me here for the moment.  I like the people I work with.  But if the place burned to the ground and company went belly up, I really don't care.  Sorry, but I just don't.

Bird In Hand

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Re: Guilt about quitting?
« Reply #18 on: August 02, 2018, 11:22:50 AM »
A very timely post for me as well.  I gave my company notice about six weeks ago.  After they picked their mouths off the ground they negotiated me staying for about three months at three times my normal salary.  So you do have some say in how you go out.  I like to refer to my severance agreement as the ďDonít be a Dick ContractĒ.  All of the stipulations are around not saying anything derogatory on the way out about the company or the people and they wonít either.

I donít feel guilt about leaving the company or 99% of the people.  I did recruit two people that I had long worked with 15+ yr relationships.  Theyíre highly compensated and they knew the risks of this type of business.  Iím 30 minutes away from telling them.  I was also able to negotiate retention packages for them.  So Iím guilt free.  Theyíre response is going to be interesting.

Iím ready to get it off my chest.

Wow, congrats and good luck!  3x your going rate should make the last 3 months rather more tolerable.  :)

I'm not sure I understand the implications that your retirement will have on the two people you mentioned.  Are you saying that you negotiated packages similar to your own, on their behalf?  Does your departure somehow imply that they may leave as well, or just that they'll have the option to leave if they choose to, and in that case they will have the same deal you got (or similar)?

RedmondStash

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Re: Guilt about quitting?
« Reply #19 on: August 02, 2018, 12:17:12 PM »
OP, one thing I've learned in many years in the working world is that everyone is expendable. And yeah, as a previous poster mentioned, your company would kick you out in a hot second if it made financial sense for them to do so.

What you owe them when you have a business relationship is good work. You don't owe them that continuing relationship, and you don't owe them anything after that relationship ends. It can be a bit humbling to realize that teams, departments, and companies just keep humming along after you leave. I'm sure the people will miss you, but remember that you're also setting a good example for self-care. Maybe you'll inspire a colleague to take a step toward their own greater happiness.

I get why you would feel guilty. But the guilt is based on inaccurate assumptions about business relationships. You don't have to keep taking care of the business you work for; that's not actually your role there. It just feels like it is, because we humans are wired for emotional connection, not for cold pragmatism. But the relationship is a lot more impersonal than you realize. Think about people's stories of unexpected layoffs or firings, and you might start to see things more clearly.

Everyone will be sad, and then everyone will be fine.

dude

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Re: Guilt about quitting?
« Reply #20 on: August 02, 2018, 12:23:11 PM »
Get over that shit. It's your life you should be worrying about. You are a cog in the machine that can be replaced tomorrow, don't kid yourself thinking otherwise.

Much Fishing to Do

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Re: Guilt about quitting?
« Reply #21 on: August 02, 2018, 05:16:41 PM »
So here is a post that hits me the hardest.  I have had a Mustachian path before MMM due to difficult work situations and an ability to keep expenses well below earnings.  Through the help of a good friend who encouraged me to start a business to support his business, of which he is one of many partners, I've had a very successful run (we are very good at what we do, unique I think).  My FIRE number 10 years ago was $1 - $1.5M, and I'm at my $3M fatfire now (which doesnt even include the full 529s for the kids, the DAF and the paid for home).  Of course this happened thru growth which has included a half dozen employees who depend upon me (and I care about) and a business venture partner who depends upon me (and I care about).  I've been working for 2 years on 'handing off' my team to the big business as i feel I owe that to everyone.  My plan is to stick around for at least 2 more years to help the transition though at a half-time position.  The funniest part has been one of the sticking points is literally the large company wondering what "trick" is up my sleeve for giving up this profitable company.... no one understands the word "enough" I guess anymore...

I'm close to saying screw it but I feel I owe more to everyone than that.  I frankly like what I do to an extent but don't want to take on the risk involved in owning a company given I already have more than enough, and would rather do what I do a reasonable 20 hour work week instead of 60 hours a week. My oldest is 2 years from leaving the nest and I'm realizing time is passing me by.  And I'm tired. Just very F***king tired.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2018, 06:08:57 PM by Much Fishing to Do »

lemanfan

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Re: Guilt about quitting?
« Reply #22 on: August 02, 2018, 11:14:23 PM »
no one understands the word "enough" I guess anymore...

And I'm tired. Just very F***king tired.

This resonates HARD with me.  Thank you for showing I'm not alone.

Livingthedream55

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Re: Guilt about quitting?
« Reply #23 on: August 06, 2018, 06:41:35 AM »
So here is a post that hits me the hardest.  I have had a Mustachian path before MMM due to difficult work situations and an ability to keep expenses well below earnings.  Through the help of a good friend who encouraged me to start a business to support his business, of which he is one of many partners, I've had a very successful run (we are very good at what we do, unique I think).  My FIRE number 10 years ago was $1 - $1.5M, and I'm at my $3M fatfire now (which doesnt even include the full 529s for the kids, the DAF and the paid for home).  Of course this happened thru growth which has included a half dozen employees who depend upon me (and I care about) and a business venture partner who depends upon me (and I care about).  I've been working for 2 years on 'handing off' my team to the big business as i feel I owe that to everyone.  My plan is to stick around for at least 2 more years to help the transition though at a half-time position.  The funniest part has been one of the sticking points is literally the large company wondering what "trick" is up my sleeve for giving up this profitable company.... no one understands the word "enough" I guess anymore...

I'm close to saying screw it but I feel I owe more to everyone than that.  I frankly like what I do to an extent but don't want to take on the risk involved in owning a company given I already have more than enough, and would rather do what I do a reasonable 20 hour work week instead of 60 hours a week. My oldest is 2 years from leaving the nest and I'm realizing time is passing me by.  And I'm tired. Just very F***king tired.

This resonates very deeply with me.  What we are doing is so counter cultural. It is hard to find people in real life who support us in this.

HovEratoTo

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Re: Guilt about quitting?
« Reply #24 on: August 06, 2018, 07:56:26 AM »
OP here, thanks all for sharing your experiences and words of wisdom.

Going back to re-read some of Living a FI's posts has also helped with processing some of this.

I get why you would feel guilty. But the guilt is based on inaccurate assumptions about business relationships. You don't have to keep taking care of the business you work for; that's not actually your role there. It just feels like it is, because we humans are wired for emotional connection, not for cold pragmatism. But the relationship is a lot more impersonal than you realize. Think about people's stories of unexpected layoffs or firings, and you might start to see things more clearly.

This is definitely a big part of the struggle for me. I attach a lot of meaning to work and take it personally. I think that's made me good at my job over the years but also contributed to me overdoing it and burning out. I've learned a lot along the way. But all my reasons for feeling guilty have to do with the people, and the customers.

And also, I don't have something to jump to right now. My thinking is I want to take more time for my son while he's still so young, and help us settle in to our new city a bit more. It will definitely be a transition to not have work driving my meaning and value every day.

frugalecon

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Re: Guilt about quitting?
« Reply #25 on: August 06, 2018, 08:06:05 AM »
I have seven working days left, and I have no guilt at all.  I am absolutely screwing them over on one big project, too. 

Not my problem anymore!  I gave them a chance to keep me, and I was clear about what I needed in order to stay, and they said no.  They chose this outcome.  Why would I feel guilty?

Are you quitting without giving them a choice?  What would they say if you asked for a promotion, or a raise, or a corner office, or whatever else has value to you?  Everyone has a price.  You can ask for a 30% raise and the ability to telework three days/week.  You can ask for a company car, or profit sharing, or a sabbatical.  You have all of the power to frame the negotiation, then they have the option to take it or leave it or counter offer.

Employment is supposed to be a mutually beneficial relationship.  They are always going to make the choices that benefit them, not you.  As soon they figure out that it's too costly to keep you, they will hurry you out the door with a smile and you can move on completely guilt free.

I think that his post means that Sol is starting his last week of work today. Wow! Enjoy the last lap!

sol

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Re: Guilt about quitting?
« Reply #26 on: August 06, 2018, 08:20:48 AM »
I think that his post means that Sol is starting his last week of work today. Wow! Enjoy the last lap!

Nah, I'm burning off two weeks of accumulated annual leave first.  My last day will be the 24th, per the "class of 2018" thread.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2018, 08:50:36 AM by sol »

frugalecon

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Re: Guilt about quitting?
« Reply #27 on: August 06, 2018, 08:34:29 AM »
I think that his post means that Sol is starting his last week of work today. Wow! Enjoy the last lap!

Nah, I'm burning off two weeks of accumulated annual leave first.  My last day will be the 24th, per the "class of 2018" thread.

Ah, I see. I don't frequent that thread. I guess the next two weeks will give your colleagues a preview of a "Sol-less" workplace.

sol

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Re: Guilt about quitting?
« Reply #28 on: August 06, 2018, 09:32:43 AM »
Ah, I see. I don't frequent that thread. I guess the next two weeks will give your colleagues a preview of a "Sol-less" workplace.

Rimshot for frugalecon....

I wrote a long post about my last few weeks of work, but then decided to sit on it until I'm actually done.  Seems like bad form to spill the beans about a place you're leaving.  Suffice it to say, I've been walking around work with a big smile on my face.

Still no guilt about my departure, despite the cascade of consequences.  Not my problem anymore!

Financial.Velociraptor

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Re: Guilt about quitting?
« Reply #29 on: August 06, 2018, 10:21:33 AM »
Ah, I see. I don't frequent that thread. I guess the next two weeks will give your colleagues a preview of a "Sol-less" workplace.

Rimshot for frugalecon....

I wrote a long post about my last few weeks of work, but then decided to sit on it until I'm actually done.  Seems like bad form to spill the beans about a place you're leaving.  Suffice it to say, I've been walking around work with a big smile on my face.

Still no guilt about my departure, despite the cascade of consequences.  Not my problem anymore!

w00t4h!  Gogogogogogogogo!  Retired at 41.  Not too shabby.

MasterStache

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Re: Guilt about quitting?
« Reply #30 on: August 06, 2018, 11:23:16 AM »
Guilty? Hells no! I only feel guilty about not leaving sooner. Work was sucking the life out of me and it was impacting my home life. I gave them plenty of notice and even hung on for some part-time work. They did seek me out for another project earlier this year. First day back I realized why I left in the first place. I finished the project (roughly 7.5 weeks long) and got the hell out and have no intention of going back. They are losing Engineers left and right as well. It happens when you treat your employees like garbage.

sol

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Re: Guilt about quitting?
« Reply #31 on: August 06, 2018, 11:28:22 AM »
They are losing Engineers left and right as well. It happens when you treat your employees like garbage.

Unemployment is at record lows during the exact moment when the stock market is at an all time high.  We're living in the golden age of early retirement right now, and corporations are suffering for it because they're having a hard time keeping their best employees.

But it will change eventually.  Remember in 2009 when the entire blogosphere was up in arms about people losing their jobs, and then their houses, and it crashing the market, and even experienced people couldn't find work?  About how being out of the workplace for 18 months meant your skills were stale, about how only kids right out of college were getting hired for anything and those kids were still facing record unemployment numbers?  Those days will come back around again.

RedmondStash

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Re: Guilt about quitting?
« Reply #32 on: August 06, 2018, 12:19:44 PM »
But it will change eventually.  Remember in 2009 when the entire blogosphere was up in arms about people losing their jobs, and then their houses, and it crashing the market, and even experienced people couldn't find work?  About how being out of the workplace for 18 months meant your skills were stale, about how only kids right out of college were getting hired for anything and those kids were still facing record unemployment numbers?  Those days will come back around again.

Yeah, right now we're being lulled into that cliched false sense of security because the market has been good for the past couple of years, and work is relatively plentiful. This is one of the reasons I'm not comfortable with a 100% stock AA: things won't always be like this.

I'm sort of both looking forward to and dreading the next market correction, to see how I react. I didn't blink in 2008, but I wasn't FIREd then.

HovEratoTo

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Re: Guilt about quitting?
« Reply #33 on: August 07, 2018, 03:22:15 PM »
Well guys, I did it. I talked to my supervisor and handed in my notice. I suggested 8/24 as my last day but am waiting for my supervisor to chat with her boss, as I told them I was flexible on leave date.

Huzzah! I felt sort of panicky the last week but I'm so glad I found the courage to go through with it! Thank you all for the encouragement and advice.

Retire-Canada

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Re: Guilt about quitting?
« Reply #34 on: August 07, 2018, 03:24:50 PM »
Well guys, I did it. I talked to my supervisor and handed in my notice. I suggested 8/24 as my last day but am waiting for my supervisor to chat with her boss, as I told them I was flexible on leave date.

Huzzah! I felt sort of panicky the last week but I'm so glad I found the courage to go through with it! Thank you all for the encouragement and advice.

Congrats. :)

wordnerd

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Re: Guilt about quitting?
« Reply #35 on: August 07, 2018, 03:35:21 PM »
Congrats!

LifePhaseTwo

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Re: Guilt about quitting?
« Reply #36 on: August 07, 2018, 06:18:41 PM »
Congrats and high-fives! I had my meeting with my boss on Friday to hand in my notice. I feel almost giddy with excitement about my impending freedom 😊

HovEratoTo

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Re: Guilt about quitting?
« Reply #37 on: August 08, 2018, 08:03:07 AM »
Congrats and high-fives! I had my meeting with my boss on Friday to hand in my notice. I feel almost giddy with excitement about my impending freedom 😊

Awesome! High fives indeed!

I can already tell my rose-tinted glasses are on, and trying to convince my brain that quitting is not the right thing. But I know I need this time away and hey, if I decide in two months I really was happier on the job, my boss was pretty open to working together again. Though I hope to post a few months from now about how awesome post-work life is and encourage others who feel stuck to make the leap too (with proper planning, of course).

infromsea

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Re: Guilt about quitting?
« Reply #38 on: August 08, 2018, 12:12:31 PM »
Congrats and high-fives! I had my meeting with my boss on Friday to hand in my notice. I feel almost giddy with excitement about my impending freedom 😊

Awesome! High fives indeed!

I can already tell my rose-tinted glasses are on, and trying to convince my brain that quitting is not the right thing. But I know I need this time away and hey, if I decide in two months I really was happier on the job, my boss was pretty open to working together again. Though I hope to post a few months from now about how awesome post-work life is and encourage others who feel stuck to make the leap too (with proper planning, of course).

Congrats to you!

In response to your brain trying to talk you out of the decision, I don't remember the quote exactly but the sentiment I'm reminded of is something like "If a decision/goal/choice doesn't make you uncomfortable, you didn't aim high enough"...

Bottom line, your unease is because you are pushing the boundaries, we all know it's going to work out just fine, but it's more exciting/interesting/fulfilling to revel in the chance that it all goes to hell and you are regretting your decision in six months... you won't be... Even with the knowledge that it's GOING to work out, our brains still make the drama... stupid brains.  :)

Best of luck!

WoodStache

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Re: Guilt about quitting?
« Reply #39 on: August 08, 2018, 02:06:40 PM »
In the event that we actually RE, which I think we will, I think I will experience some guilt. We own a business and employ 25 people. If we sell the business at some point we can't really force the new owner to keep anyone on staff or to even keep it in the same town. Of course, things could go sour before then, or at any time, which is why you have to make your own decision. Still, if things go well and we just decide to sell and retire before traditional age I'm sure I'll feel some amount of guilt.

Not enough that it would sway my decision one way or the other

DreamFIRE

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Re: Guilt about quitting?
« Reply #40 on: August 08, 2018, 07:32:05 PM »

If I gave my employer only 2 weeks notice that I was retiring, I would feel some guilt since I have unique skills and duties that would be difficult for someone new to step into and handle with any efficiency for a long time, and I wouldn't even be there to train my replacement.

But I plan to give about a month notice with the notice being that I will stay on part time for months, maybe a year or so.  By offering that, I won't feel any guilt.  If they don't accept me going part time, that will be their choice, and I won't feel any guilt.

moof

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Re: Guilt about quitting?
« Reply #41 on: August 30, 2018, 04:38:42 PM »
Check your contract, verify how long they have to keep paying you once a bean counter disables your badge.  Give that much notice.

What, no contract?  At-will employment?  Zero guarantees of severance or other retention payout?  Guess what, that is how loyal the company is to you.  Respond in kind.

Welcome to capitalism.

MrThatsDifferent

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Re: Guilt about quitting?
« Reply #42 on: September 01, 2018, 08:18:14 AM »
Itís weird that people feel guilt about quitting when companies have zero guilt about getting rid of workers when it fits them. They are not your family or best friends, itís a company. You are replaceable. If you died tomorrow, the business would survive you. You are not that special or vital. Put yourself first. When youíre done, quit and move on. Separate your ego, this is business, treat it like business.

Retire-Canada

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Re: Guilt about quitting?
« Reply #43 on: September 01, 2018, 10:12:47 AM »
Itís weird that people feel guilt about quitting when companies have zero guilt about getting rid of workers when it fits them. They are not your family or best friends, itís a company. You are replaceable. If you died tomorrow, the business would survive you. You are not that special or vital. Put yourself first. When youíre done, quit and move on. Separate your ego, this is business, treat it like business.

This really depends on your situation. The folks that have employed me have all become friends over time. They have treated me with consideration and respect. While I have had contracts terminated when business conditions required it they did so in a manner that was as accomodating to my needs as they could.

So in return I want to give them as much consideration as I can when I leave. That doesn't mean I'll do anything for them. I'll look out for myself and execute my FIRE plans, but it also means I won't do the absolute minimum either. I'll strike a balance that works reasonably for everyone.

Life isn't zero sum game.

Jon_Snow

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Re: Guilt about quitting?
« Reply #44 on: September 01, 2018, 10:34:50 AM »
A fair amount of guilt upon quitting.

The company I worked for, starting at 17 until I FIRE'd at 42, was a family enterprise started by my grandfather and taken to new heights by my father. It was just understood by all that I would assume the reigns and pour the majority of my life-force into it until I was well into my 60's...like they did before me.

Initially, it was quite the bomb dropped upon the company...and the family when I chose to walk away from what was seen by many as a clear plan of succession. But I am blessed with a wonderful family and the eventual acceptance and support of my decision is something I will always be grateful for. I believe...no, I'm CERTAIN that I f they were asked, knowing how I have flourished in FIRE, they would all say that I made the right choice for me. I knew it was the only choice.

MrThatsDifferent

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Re: Guilt about quitting?
« Reply #45 on: September 01, 2018, 03:49:46 PM »
Itís weird that people feel guilt about quitting when companies have zero guilt about getting rid of workers when it fits them. They are not your family or best friends, itís a company. You are replaceable. If you died tomorrow, the business would survive you. You are not that special or vital. Put yourself first. When youíre done, quit and move on. Separate your ego, this is business, treat it like business.

This really depends on your situation. The folks that have employed me have all become friends over time. They have treated me with consideration and respect. While I have had contracts terminated when business conditions required it they did so in a manner that was as accomodating to my needs as they could.

So in return I want to give them as much consideration as I can when I leave. That doesn't mean I'll do anything for them. I'll look out for myself and execute my FIRE plans, but it also means I won't do the absolute minimum either. I'll strike a balance that works reasonably for everyone.

Life isn't zero sum game.

I absolutely get that, thereís no reason to be a dick to your company unless theyíve treated you that way. My role is pretty big, technically I only have to give 4 weeks notice but I will probably work out a 3-4 month notice period because it will take a bit to find someone and give them a proper handover and set them up well. That wasnít done for me and it sucked. Thatís the plan. But I wonít feel guilt about leaving, especially if Iíve done my part to leave better than I found it.

Linda_Norway

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Re: Guilt about quitting?
« Reply #46 on: September 03, 2018, 03:03:30 AM »
Here in Norway we don't have this problem to that degree. Most of us have a contract saying you need to give minimum 3 full calendar months notice. That is a very long waiting time when you are in quitting modus.
Practically every company has this, so your boss can hire a new person who is currently working, but this person won't be able to start until after you are gone for some time.

But anyway, 3 months should be plenty of time to organize knowledge tranfer and assigning other people to projects.

My issue is that if we manage the sell our clownhouse for a high enough price to FIRE next spring, we need to negotiate to keep living there long enough to give that notice. I hope we can take our 5 weeks of summer vacation during that 3 month notice period and by that leaving 5 weeks earlier.

FIREby35

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Re: Guilt about quitting?
« Reply #47 on: September 03, 2018, 08:43:22 AM »
So here is a post that hits me the hardest.  I have had a Mustachian path before MMM due to difficult work situations and an ability to keep expenses well below earnings.  Through the help of a good friend who encouraged me to start a business to support his business, of which he is one of many partners, I've had a very successful run (we are very good at what we do, unique I think).  My FIRE number 10 years ago was $1 - $1.5M, and I'm at my $3M fatfire now (which doesnt even include the full 529s for the kids, the DAF and the paid for home).  Of course this happened thru growth which has included a half dozen employees who depend upon me (and I care about) and a business venture partner who depends upon me (and I care about).  I've been working for 2 years on 'handing off' my team to the big business as i feel I owe that to everyone.  My plan is to stick around for at least 2 more years to help the transition though at a half-time position.  The funniest part has been one of the sticking points is literally the large company wondering what "trick" is up my sleeve for giving up this profitable company.... no one understands the word "enough" I guess anymore...

I'm close to saying screw it but I feel I owe more to everyone than that.  I frankly like what I do to an extent but don't want to take on the risk involved in owning a company given I already have more than enough, and would rather do what I do a reasonable 20 hour work week instead of 60 hours a week. My oldest is 2 years from leaving the nest and I'm realizing time is passing me by.  And I'm tired. Just very F***king tired.

I feel this way. I have six employees. It's not the same as leaving a corp. If I leave or close the business, everyone loses their job. We also fill a niche in the market that, when we close, will probably just be left unfulfilled and would negatively impact all the people who can't have access to our services. It's a law firm and our client's are part of an "underserved community." We figured out how to make it profitable and offer high quality service.

But, at the same time, how much do I owe to everyone else? When is my duty complete? To my employees, to my clients and community. And what about that and the tension with my duty to my family and friends?

BTW, I also deal with many people who can't comprehend enough. In the law, there are many, many "lifers." Heck, we just had a judge die in his office at 63 who had announced his retirement date a few months before. Dead. In his office. I'm not going to die in my office and I don't want to deal with heavy shit forever. I'm constantly talking about how much time in jail, how much money for horrific injuries, racism going from idea to reality in our courts, disability discrimination, all kinds of stuff. That is what lawyers do! (Some of us, anyway). I don't want to steep in the problems of my society for another few decades - one decade is plenty! It would be very nice to simply enjoy the abundant fruit of my past labor.

Anyway, it is a conundrum and I hope I can figure out a solution sometime in the next couple years.


MrThatsDifferent

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Re: Guilt about quitting?
« Reply #48 on: September 03, 2018, 01:31:33 PM »
So here is a post that hits me the hardest.  I have had a Mustachian path before MMM due to difficult work situations and an ability to keep expenses well below earnings.  Through the help of a good friend who encouraged me to start a business to support his business, of which he is one of many partners, I've had a very successful run (we are very good at what we do, unique I think).  My FIRE number 10 years ago was $1 - $1.5M, and I'm at my $3M fatfire now (which doesnt even include the full 529s for the kids, the DAF and the paid for home).  Of course this happened thru growth which has included a half dozen employees who depend upon me (and I care about) and a business venture partner who depends upon me (and I care about).  I've been working for 2 years on 'handing off' my team to the big business as i feel I owe that to everyone.  My plan is to stick around for at least 2 more years to help the transition though at a half-time position.  The funniest part has been one of the sticking points is literally the large company wondering what "trick" is up my sleeve for giving up this profitable company.... no one understands the word "enough" I guess anymore...

I'm close to saying screw it but I feel I owe more to everyone than that.  I frankly like what I do to an extent but don't want to take on the risk involved in owning a company given I already have more than enough, and would rather do what I do a reasonable 20 hour work week instead of 60 hours a week. My oldest is 2 years from leaving the nest and I'm realizing time is passing me by.  And I'm tired. Just very F***king tired.

I feel this way. I have six employees. It's not the same as leaving a corp. If I leave or close the business, everyone loses their job. We also fill a niche in the market that, when we close, will probably just be left unfulfilled and would negatively impact all the people who can't have access to our services. It's a law firm and our client's are part of an "underserved community." We figured out how to make it profitable and offer high quality service.

But, at the same time, how much do I owe to everyone else? When is my duty complete? To my employees, to my clients and community. And what about that and the tension with my duty to my family and friends?

BTW, I also deal with many people who can't comprehend enough. In the law, there are many, many "lifers." Heck, we just had a judge die in his office at 63 who had announced his retirement date a few months before. Dead. In his office. I'm not going to die in my office and I don't want to deal with heavy shit forever. I'm constantly talking about how much time in jail, how much money for horrific injuries, racism going from idea to reality in our courts, disability discrimination, all kinds of stuff. That is what lawyers do! (Some of us, anyway). I don't want to steep in the problems of my society for another few decades - one decade is plenty! It would be very nice to simply enjoy the abundant fruit of my past labor.

Anyway, it is a conundrum and I hope I can figure out a solution sometime in the next couple years.

Couldnít one of your solutions be, hire a junior that you train to do what you do? Or let your partners run the firm? You can always stay on as adviser or silent partner. Put your focus on a succession plan now. If you died tomorrow, what would happen? Itís good to plan for that because you very well could, or you could live to 100. No one knows.

Linda_Norway

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Re: Guilt about quitting?
« Reply #49 on: September 04, 2018, 02:23:53 AM »
So here is a post that hits me the hardest.  I have had a Mustachian path before MMM due to difficult work situations and an ability to keep expenses well below earnings.  Through the help of a good friend who encouraged me to start a business to support his business, of which he is one of many partners, I've had a very successful run (we are very good at what we do, unique I think).  My FIRE number 10 years ago was $1 - $1.5M, and I'm at my $3M fatfire now (which doesnt even include the full 529s for the kids, the DAF and the paid for home).  Of course this happened thru growth which has included a half dozen employees who depend upon me (and I care about) and a business venture partner who depends upon me (and I care about).  I've been working for 2 years on 'handing off' my team to the big business as i feel I owe that to everyone.  My plan is to stick around for at least 2 more years to help the transition though at a half-time position.  The funniest part has been one of the sticking points is literally the large company wondering what "trick" is up my sleeve for giving up this profitable company.... no one understands the word "enough" I guess anymore...

I'm close to saying screw it but I feel I owe more to everyone than that.  I frankly like what I do to an extent but don't want to take on the risk involved in owning a company given I already have more than enough, and would rather do what I do a reasonable 20 hour work week instead of 60 hours a week. My oldest is 2 years from leaving the nest and I'm realizing time is passing me by.  And I'm tired. Just very F***king tired.

I feel this way. I have six employees. It's not the same as leaving a corp. If I leave or close the business, everyone loses their job. We also fill a niche in the market that, when we close, will probably just be left unfulfilled and would negatively impact all the people who can't have access to our services. It's a law firm and our client's are part of an "underserved community." We figured out how to make it profitable and offer high quality service.

But, at the same time, how much do I owe to everyone else? When is my duty complete? To my employees, to my clients and community. And what about that and the tension with my duty to my family and friends?

BTW, I also deal with many people who can't comprehend enough. In the law, there are many, many "lifers." Heck, we just had a judge die in his office at 63 who had announced his retirement date a few months before. Dead. In his office. I'm not going to die in my office and I don't want to deal with heavy shit forever. I'm constantly talking about how much time in jail, how much money for horrific injuries, racism going from idea to reality in our courts, disability discrimination, all kinds of stuff. That is what lawyers do! (Some of us, anyway). I don't want to steep in the problems of my society for another few decades - one decade is plenty! It would be very nice to simply enjoy the abundant fruit of my past labor.

Anyway, it is a conundrum and I hope I can figure out a solution sometime in the next couple years.

Couldnít one of your solutions be, hire a junior that you train to do what you do? Or let your partners run the firm? You can always stay on as adviser or silent partner. Put your focus on a succession plan now. If you died tomorrow, what would happen? Itís good to plan for that because you very well could, or you could live to 100. No one knows.

My FIL owned hos own company, together with a partner. I think they had about 25 employees and offered a niche product to their customers. They did the management together. When FIL FIREd at 50, he let his partner buy him out. There was an arrangement that the money was to be paid over 2 or 3 years, because the partners did not have the funds available.
It ended up in a way that the company didn't do well without FIL as a manager. The partner was also not fully able to fulfill all his payments to FIL. I am not sure the company still exists. I guess it is painful for FIL that his company went bad after he left, but it isn't his fault. He had all the right in the world to leave.

Maybe selling it to a big consultancy firm would have been an other option. Although that would have given the employees a very different working atmosphere.