Author Topic: For those who follow the 4% rule  (Read 14567 times)

AdrianC

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Re: For those who follow the 4% rule
« Reply #100 on: February 24, 2017, 03:06:28 AM »
God, those are good graphs maizeman.

Thanks for taking the time to share!



Chance of running out of money before death is 2.4%, less than half what the same withdrawal rate provides at 30.

Wow.  That red is such a tiny sliver.  Compare that to the grey, ugh.

And people work OMY for several MY worrying about that tiny red slice (which itself can be mitigated via income or cutting expenses).  How sad.

I keep coming back to it. What a great illustration.

So I went to help an old client this week. Two nights away from home turned into three, most of the last one spent at the plant, programming on the fly, total seat of the pants stuff. And to top it of I had a toothache. All to make $6k that I don't even need*. I have to get free from this toxic mindset.

* OK, so it's more than that. Yes, they called me because they knew I'd fix it. And I did. And yes, it was gratifying. But I get the same, or better, gratification doing a 50 mile bike ride, and I know which one is better for me, mentally and physically.

Mr. Green

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Re: For those who follow the 4% rule
« Reply #101 on: February 24, 2017, 06:41:38 AM »
I keep coming back to it. What a great illustration.

So I went to help an old client this week. Two nights away from home turned into three, most of the last one spent at the plant, programming on the fly, total seat of the pants stuff. And to top it of I had a toothache. All to make $6k that I don't even need*. I have to get free from this toxic mindset.

* OK, so it's more than that. Yes, they called me because they knew I'd fix it. And I did. And yes, it was gratifying. But I get the same, or better, gratification doing a 50 mile bike ride, and I know which one is better for me, mentally and physically.
It's still a momentary surprise when a money-motivated situation presents itself and I realize that I'm not interested because we have enough already. My wife will be leaving her job soon and we were just talking last night about how they could double her salary from $75,000 to $150,000, which they'd never offer anyway, and she still wouldn't be interested. It kinda feels like wielding a superpower because our society is built on the concept that people need more money, and we're pretty much immune to it at this point.
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MasterStache

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Re: For those who follow the 4% rule
« Reply #102 on: February 24, 2017, 06:55:35 AM »
God, those are good graphs maizeman.

Thanks for taking the time to share!



Chance of running out of money before death is 2.4%, less than half what the same withdrawal rate provides at 30.

Wow.  That red is such a tiny sliver.  Compare that to the grey, ugh.

And people work OMY for several MY worrying about that tiny red slice (which itself can be mitigated via income or cutting expenses).  How sad.

I keep coming back to it. What a great illustration.

So I went to help an old client this week. Two nights away from home turned into three, most of the last one spent at the plant, programming on the fly, total seat of the pants stuff. And to top it of I had a toothache. All to make $6k that I don't even need*. I have to get free from this toxic mindset.

* OK, so it's more than that. Yes, they called me because they knew I'd fix it. And I did. And yes, it was gratifying. But I get the same, or better, gratification doing a 50 mile bike ride, and I know which one is better for me, mentally and physically.

If you don't mind me asking, PLC programming?

maizeman

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Re: For those who follow the 4% rule
« Reply #103 on: February 24, 2017, 06:56:59 AM »
It's still a momentary surprise when a money-motivated situation presents itself and I realize that I'm not interested because we have enough already. My wife will be leaving her job soon and we were just talking last night about how they could double her salary from $75,000 to $150,000, which they'd never offer anyway, and she still wouldn't be interested. It kinda feels like wielding a superpower because our society is built on the concept that people need more money, and we're pretty much immune to it at this point.

You've been FI for a while now, if I remember right, do you have a sense of how long it took you for the new not-moved-by-money mindset to set it? It does indeed sound like a superpower, and something I hope to develop myself once I hit my own magic number.
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AdrianC

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Re: For those who follow the 4% rule
« Reply #104 on: February 24, 2017, 07:19:23 AM »
If you don't mind me asking, PLC programming?

Yes. CLX and ME on this one. Hacking away at someone else's poorly commented programs, as per usual.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2017, 07:40:48 AM by AdrianC »

MasterStache

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Re: For those who follow the 4% rule
« Reply #105 on: February 24, 2017, 07:28:42 AM »

If you don't mind me asking, PLC programming?

Yes. CLX and ME on this one. Hacking away at someone else's poorly commented programs, as per usual.

That always pisses me off getting a program with zero/minimal comments.

Related question, do you seek opportunities to earn some side money programming? I am getting ready to ask my employer to switch to a part time (work from home) roll and was wondering about part time gigs programming if they don't bite . I also do HMI, CAD and unfortunately learned Siemens a couple years ago. Been trying to get that out of my head for a while. AB is MUCH easier.

Sorry for the thread hijack!

AdrianC

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Re: For those who follow the 4% rule
« Reply #106 on: February 24, 2017, 07:29:48 AM »
It's still a momentary surprise when a money-motivated situation presents itself and I realize that I'm not interested because we have enough already. My wife will be leaving her job soon and we were just talking last night about how they could double her salary from $75,000 to $150,000, which they'd never offer anyway, and she still wouldn't be interested. It kinda feels like wielding a superpower because our society is built on the concept that people need more money, and we're pretty much immune to it at this point.

Yeah, Iíve been so driven to make money for so long I have a hard time turning it off. Lucky for me, in a way, some of my bigger clients are retiring themselves (all older than me) and I havenít been schmoozing the new guys, so enquiries for new work are slowing down. Iíve been part time since about Oct 2015. Before that I was averaging >50 billable per week for many years, which is how we got to be FI, of course.

AdrianC

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Re: For those who follow the 4% rule
« Reply #107 on: February 24, 2017, 07:41:21 AM »

Related question, do you seek opportunities to earn some side money programming? I am getting ready to ask my employer to switch to a part time (work from home) roll and was wondering about part time gigs programming if they don't bite . I also do HMI, CAD and unfortunately learned Siemens a couple years ago. Been trying to get that out of my head for a while. AB is MUCH easier.

Sorry for the thread hijack!

I'll send you a PM.

Metric Mouse

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Re: For those who follow the 4% rule
« Reply #108 on: February 24, 2017, 07:51:05 AM »
I keep coming back to it. What a great illustration.

So I went to help an old client this week. Two nights away from home turned into three, most of the last one spent at the plant, programming on the fly, total seat of the pants stuff. And to top it of I had a toothache. All to make $6k that I don't even need*. I have to get free from this toxic mindset.

* OK, so it's more than that. Yes, they called me because they knew I'd fix it. And I did. And yes, it was gratifying. But I get the same, or better, gratification doing a 50 mile bike ride, and I know which one is better for me, mentally and physically.
It's still a momentary surprise when a money-motivated situation presents itself and I realize that I'm not interested because we have enough already. My wife will be leaving her job soon and we were just talking last night about how they could double her salary from $75,000 to $150,000, which they'd never offer anyway, and she still wouldn't be interested. It kinda feels like wielding a superpower because our society is built on the concept that people need more money, and we're pretty much immune to it at this point.
That's awesome.
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Mr. Green

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Re: For those who follow the 4% rule
« Reply #109 on: February 24, 2017, 10:45:53 AM »
It's still a momentary surprise when a money-motivated situation presents itself and I realize that I'm not interested because we have enough already. My wife will be leaving her job soon and we were just talking last night about how they could double her salary from $75,000 to $150,000, which they'd never offer anyway, and she still wouldn't be interested. It kinda feels like wielding a superpower because our society is built on the concept that people need more money, and we're pretty much immune to it at this point.

You've been FI for a while now, if I remember right, do you have a sense of how long it took you for the new not-moved-by-money mindset to set it? It does indeed sound like a superpower, and something I hope to develop myself once I hit my own magic number.
I think it started once we realized we were bare bones FI and got stronger as we got closer to our desired FI target. When I think about her salary doubling the first thought is still, "That's a lot of cake!" But then I think about what price she pays to make any money period. Shitty commute, inflexible work hours, a company that doesn't let their employees telecommute even though they have the capability, etc. She hasn't quit yet because she likes the actual work and the ladies she works but she's getting closer to that point. As the notion of earning more money regardless of the cost loses it's incentive, it becomes no different than being paid in anything else that has little or no value to you. Like being paid in gum if you only chewed a pack or two a year. I suppose at least the money can still be spent if we want to spend it.

Edit: typo
« Last Edit: February 24, 2017, 12:06:05 PM by Mr. Green »
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Eric

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Re: For those who follow the 4% rule
« Reply #110 on: February 24, 2017, 10:49:36 AM »
CAPE can be helpful, but how it's measured is not the same as it was, so it's not historically consistent. Don't have the link, but there was a detailed rundown on it that made the case that the historical avg. of ~16 should probably be considered ~20 as it's measured now.

This is a pretty good read:

http://www.philosophicaleconomics.com/2013/12/shiller/
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Roothy

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Re: For those who follow the 4% rule
« Reply #111 on: February 24, 2017, 11:40:27 AM »
"Like being paid in gum if you only chewed a pack or two a year."  So good.

respond2u

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Re: For those who follow the 4% rule
« Reply #112 on: April 09, 2017, 07:15:29 PM »
Yes. CLX and ME on this one. Hacking away at someone else's poorly commented programs, as per usual.

That always pisses me off getting a program with zero/minimal comments.


The only thing worse than a program with no comments is a program with comments.

Seriously, 90% of the comments I've seen over the years have been useless or wrong.