Author Topic: FIREd two weeks ago, still a little freaked out  (Read 6841 times)

tomboalogo

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FIREd two weeks ago, still a little freaked out
« on: July 17, 2017, 07:13:51 AM »
So 2 weeks ago I looked at the stash ($640k if you need to know) and my stress levels (friends, family and doctor saying I look like shit) and said I have to stop.

I did the following calculation (I'm a bit older, 56).
1) I might get 20 more years on the planet
2) The last 5 will likely suck (old age home or worse)
3) If I work until regular retirement (in Canada 67?), that means I get 4 years for me???
That math doesn't work for me so I pulled the ripcord.

It's only been 2 weeks but I am still freaking out a bit. I am (was) an engineer helping turn around a company that needs lots of help and signed on a huge partner for a new product and that was causing the stress.

I describe what I'm feeling as Shawshank Redemption, where the inmates get out and lose it because they don't know what to do. In my defence, I have many many things I want to do but I think it's the giving up of my profession (P.Eng.) that's bugging me the most.

I listened to the Happy Philosopher interview on the Mad Fientist podcast but I don't know that I want to (or can) jobshare.

Funny, I'm now not even sure why I'm posting. Comments? Opinions?

BNgarden

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Re: FIREd two weeks ago, still a little freaked out
« Reply #1 on: July 17, 2017, 07:42:07 AM »
Talking to someone who is considering OMY:

I was very much where you are, until an irresistable redundancy offer pushed me over the cliff.

My friend, you are institutionalised.  You have been in a prison called "working at X500 Corp" for the last 15 years.  That is a life sentence.  Now you have all the problems that anyone coming out of prison has: resetting your life, and doing it without that externally imposed timetable that says that every Monday at 9am you have to be in the prison laundry and every Tuesday at 10.30 am you have to be in the prison exercise yard.

It's great that you have a project to move on to.  But my recommendation would be to spend at least a month after you retire doing exactly nothing (possibly doing nothing in a favourite place in the world), just to let the reality of your life reset sink into your pores while the prison stink leaches out.

You are young (relatively), educated, healthy and wealthy.  You can press the button on your retirement now and be fine.  You can always earn more money, you can never earn more years.

Good luck.

Also pointing out that two weeks is a fairly short (read: impossibly short) time to transition to your new status.  For more information on stages of transition, see William Bridges' The Way of Transition.

https://books.google.ca/books/about/The_Way_Of_Transition.html?id=T4GDVFzm2g0C&redir_esc=y

Summarized in page 1 here: http://faculty.medicine.umich.edu/sites/default/files/resources/Change%20Models.pdf

I retired two months ago almost (at 58), still in neutral zone...

Have had moments of really realizing I have freedom / choice in every moment, which are glimpses I suspect of a more enduring feeling yet to settle in me.

All the best.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2017, 07:47:05 AM by BNgarden »

Mr. Green

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Re: FIREd two weeks ago, still a little freaked out
« Reply #2 on: July 17, 2017, 09:36:20 AM »
You definitely need to give yourself more time. At least a month or two, and I've seen folks on this board talk about it taking 6 months or more to really shed all the vestiges of their work life and transition to their new life.
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DarkandStormy

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Re: FIREd two weeks ago, still a little freaked out
« Reply #3 on: July 17, 2017, 09:44:59 AM »
You mentioned a, perhaps, not great health diagnosis.  Is there anything you can do to improve that outlook?  With more free time, are you able to walk/bike more?  Can you get proper sleep now?  Can you improve diet?  Etc. etc.  I don't know if this health diagnosis can improve with some of the steps I mentioned (or even others I didn't mention) but that's a thought.
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ixtap

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Re: FIREd two weeks ago, still a little freaked out
« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2017, 09:50:52 AM »
Why only 20 more years?

Even based on family history, my father is pretty much the first man to make it passes 60, but his little brother is doing fine, too. Although he was freaked out in his late fifties, now midway through his 70s, he is back to feeling immortal and certainly not in a nursing home. He is currently in China making nearly as much consulting as he used to make salary because he will travel anywhere they want.

There are two important questions you should be asking yourself:
1) How much do you spend? This is the determining factor in how far your $640k will go.
2) What do you want to do? This is the determining factor in enjoying your retirement.

misshathaway

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Re: FIREd two weeks ago, still a little freaked out
« Reply #5 on: July 17, 2017, 10:27:55 AM »
It sounds like you left work abruptly. I did too, 2 years ago at age 58. I had known that I could swing it financially for about a year before that. I did the same calculus you did one day and I left.

I took me a good year to adjust. I had some guilt about the way I left - middle of a crisis. I detect some guilt in your description as well. The guilt makes it worse. It all mellows out eventually. I'm pretty happy now, and don't regret the decision. I bet you won't either.

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snowdog

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Re: FIREd two weeks ago, still a little freaked out
« Reply #6 on: July 17, 2017, 03:45:52 PM »
Congratulations!!  It sounds like you've definitely earned your freedom.  Keep us posted on how the adjustment goes.  I have not pulled the plug yet but I can imagine how weird the transition might be.  We are all creatures of habit for sure.

aq9

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Re: FIREd two weeks ago, still a little freaked out
« Reply #7 on: July 17, 2017, 05:43:29 PM »
(first time post)

I am 3.5 months into RE;  I am still adjusting myself.  I did not leave super-abruptly (30 days notice), but there's a lot of guilt there, I had a high-level job and carried a good chunk of the company for years with insane hours (100+ per week). Don't feel bad for me, I was well-compensated, so I am set for RE, even though I am only 43.  I suspect it will take 6-9 months for me to shed the guilt and get back to something "normal", and then start to plan what the rest of my life will look like.  In the interim I am trying to focus on my health (exercise, mainly;  I walk 3-4 hours per day) and my family (I neglected them for years).

Good luck.

MasterStache

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Re: FIREd two weeks ago, still a little freaked out
« Reply #8 on: July 17, 2017, 06:58:51 PM »
You mentioned a, perhaps, not great health diagnosis.  Is there anything you can do to improve that outlook?  With more free time, are you able to walk/bike more?  Can you get proper sleep now?  Can you improve diet?  Etc. etc.  I don't know if this health diagnosis can improve with some of the steps I mentioned (or even others I didn't mention) but that's a thought.

Congrats on the newfound freedom. +1 on the post above.

Financial.Velociraptor

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Re: FIREd two weeks ago, still a little freaked out
« Reply #9 on: July 17, 2017, 07:42:10 PM »
I needed the standard "six months" to make the post work paradigm shift.  You have habits and perspectives that were formed over decades.  They don't change in a day.  Give it time.

If money is a concern, find a "fun" job for a little crazy money.  I'm thinking next year I will work minimum wage as an usher at an outdoor concert venue.  The minimum wage is gravy to getting to see lots of free concerts. 

Your 640k supports 25,600 in annual spending under the conventional 4% rule.  I'm going with 5% (plus a sliver more at the moment). 

More important, I think, that determining "what do I want to do?"  Is finally getting a handle on "who am I?"  Most people in the Western world can't clearly define their own core values.  This is why so many of us are miserable.  We don't have the first clue how to align what we do with who we are and usually make a poor choice.
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tomboalogo

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Re: FIREd two weeks ago, still a little freaked out
« Reply #10 on: July 17, 2017, 08:07:00 PM »
Actually there is no diagnosis other than my high blood pressure that I have had since I was 30 or so. Funny story, after testing everything (at 30) my doctor asked "can you quit your job?" I answered,"can you quit yours?"

The 20 years is statistics family history and I'm being optimistic. Stats Canada says by birth year I can (on average) get to 68.

My early retirement (hopefully) will reduce stress (major killer) and give time for a fit lifestyle to try and beat the odds. (I love a challenge)

Thanks for all the kind words. Yes there's some guilt but I viewed it as either them or me. I had a 2 week vacation and felt pretty good. After one day back, I was back where I was before vacation and knew I couldn't do it anymore.

The $640k will cover expenses easily using 4% rules. I've run simulations at higher spend rates and lower returns and get the same results ( a crapload of money at death).

I have many many interests (damn engineers). Beer/wine/cider brewing, gardening/orchard, getting back to golf, start playing guitar again,..... So I don't think boredom will be an issue.

I friend sent me the following quote from Shawshank:
"he crawled through a river of shit to come out clean on the other side..."

Thanks again for the feedback. I have a lot of "what do you mean you retired?" people around me so having a place to speak freely is great.

Yeah that's one issue I struggle with. If I'm not a Professional Engineer, what the heck am I?

Sorry for the disconnected answers, I'm responding a little more free form than usual.

Frankies Girl

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Re: FIREd two weeks ago, still a little freaked out
« Reply #11 on: July 17, 2017, 10:25:42 PM »
I FIREd just over 2 years ago, from a very long, very crazy career. The last 12 years, I worked for good money/benefits but for a frankly awful department with lots of bullying and bad management.

It took me about 9 months out to even remember what it feels like to not be under constant stress. And now at 2-ish years out, I'm starting to feel like a whole person again and dealing with the bad stuff (depression and anxiety).

I quit smoking, lost almost half my body weight (got really fat from the stress and depression), and worked on learning how to eat healthy and exercising - now everything health-wise is perfect, and I'm in better shape than I was in my teens. Joined a gym, lifting weights, biking, swimming, yoga, walking/hiking, even playing racquetball (badly, with lots of made up rules, but the husband and I enjoy it more that way).



The term you were looking for if no one mentioned it yet is "institutionalized" - where you've been on the inside so long, you can't deal with the outside world.


Defining yourself through your job is pretty common. I had a bit of a breakdown dealing with that even though I was quite aware of the angles, but I'm at peace with who I am regardless of past or future boxes checked. You can be whatever you want now - a golfer, a beer brewer, a gardener, a historian, a musician... I'd choose all of the above. Just be you and define yourself by how you feel that day. It's glorious when that part finally sinks in.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2017, 10:37:42 PM by Frankies Girl »
I frequently have no idea what I'm talking about. Like now.

FIREd as of: March 6th, 2015!

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okits

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Re: FIREd two weeks ago, still a little freaked out
« Reply #12 on: July 17, 2017, 10:44:48 PM »
Actually there is no diagnosis other than my high blood pressure that I have had since I was 30 or so. Funny story, after testing everything (at 30) my doctor asked "can you quit your job?" I answered,"can you quit yours?"

This anecdote made me LOL.  :)

Are you in touch with Mustachians in your area?  IME they're lovely people and you can talk openly about ER and transitions, etc. and they will understand and possibly have their own experiences and wisdom to share.

Hope you start to feel more at peace with your freedom!
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vine

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Re: FIREd two weeks ago, still a little freaked out
« Reply #13 on: July 18, 2017, 09:21:48 AM »
Funny, I'm now not even sure why I'm posting. Comments? Opinions?
Thanks for posting here. As someone who has already gone through most of the exact feelings you described I can say that it does get better, but it takes time. I'm sorry to report that it will take quite a bit of work on your end, and it's not an instant transformation. How long it will take is entirely related to how quickly you process all of the baggage.

On the upside, you have a great community here who knows exactly what that process entails. Keep us in the loop.

It doesn't sound like you are quite ready to hear it, but I'll say it for when you are: Congratulations!!!

evanc

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Re: FIREd two weeks ago, still a little freaked out
« Reply #14 on: July 18, 2017, 04:11:01 PM »


Your 640k supports 25,600 in annual spending under the conventional 4% rule.  I'm going with 5% (plus a sliver more at the moment). 



To piggyback on what FV said, with your stash you could live on $32k annually (5% WR)  and still have a statistically predicted probability of ~9/10  ( someone correct me, if I'm wrong) that you won't run out of money for the rest of your life! Not to mention that as a Canadian, you have free healthcare, no?   The world is your oyster, friend. Congratulations; Enjoy!

frompa

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Re: FIREd two weeks ago, still a little freaked out
« Reply #15 on: July 18, 2017, 06:32:53 PM »
Tomboalogo - I too fully retired at age 58, a few months ago.  Even though I'm out of the work place for a few more months than you,  I would say I'm in the adjustment stage.  I was self-emloyed, and used to negotiating the ins and outs of time off whenever I could manage it, but still it feels... weird and a little unsettling to have made that final move.  Like you, I have many interests, and I'm finding the days pass pretty damn quickly, what with me caught up in one or another or three or four of those interests.  I'm also still adjusting to the friends who are quick to make a snarky comment about my "not working" status; who knew people could be so judgmental?  Being only a few months ahead of you, I'd say, give it time.  This is a huge adjustment.  A happy one, ultimately, but a big one.  I hope you can give yourself a big pat on the back soon.

AdrianC

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Re: FIREd two weeks ago, still a little freaked out
« Reply #16 on: July 19, 2017, 05:44:13 AM »
It's only been 2 weeks but I am still freaking out a bit. I am (was) an engineer helping turn around a company that needs lots of help and signed on a huge partner for a new product and that was causing the stress.

I describe what I'm feeling as Shawshank Redemption, where the inmates get out and lose it because they don't know what to do. In my defence, I have many many things I want to do but I think it's the giving up of my profession (P.Eng.) that's bugging me the most.

I listened to the Happy Philosopher interview on the Mad Fientist podcast but I don't know that I want to (or can) jobshare.

Funny, I'm now not even sure why I'm posting. Comments? Opinions?

Here's what is helping me in the transition: on the advice of someone here, I read (ok, listened to) the book Younger Next Year. An idea in the book of making exercise my "job" resonated with me, so I did. I excercise 5 times a week. It's my "job".

Now admittedly I still work part time as a consultant, also in engineering. But my exercise "job" takes priority. I'm in the best shape I've been for at least ten years, and getting fitter. As the book says, sure I could develop cancer and die next month (one of the book's authors died this year of prostate cancer). I could also live another 40 years and be in great shape for 30 or more of them. I like them odds.

And there's always the part time consulting gig if you want to stay involved. Set limits. Set your billing rate at double what you were making before. It's not a bad way to transition.

CargoBiker

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Re: FIREd two weeks ago, still a little freaked out
« Reply #17 on: July 19, 2017, 09:33:37 AM »
So 2 weeks ago I looked at the stash ($640k if you need to know) and my stress levels (friends, family and doctor saying I look like shit) and said I have to stop.

Funny, I'm now not even sure why I'm posting. Comments? Opinions?

Focus on taking care of yourself physically, and getting to a healthier state, before looking for what's next.

Clean up your diet, work out daily (now that you have the time to). Get to the point where your friends and family are saying "Wow, you look great!".

For many, being physically fit, leads to feeling better mentally as well.


Just a suggestion.
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recklesslysober

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Re: FIREd two weeks ago, still a little freaked out
« Reply #18 on: July 19, 2017, 10:09:42 AM »
Shawshank Redemption is a great tie-in with MMM. When I started my journal on the forum I really identified with the storyline of my debt being my Shawshank and I use quotes from the movie often there.. I haven't thought much about it from the perspective of being on the other side, financially free, and having trouble adjusting after being 'institutionalized.' Thanks for sharing your experience! I don't have any additional insight but I agree with the general consensus on classic coping mechanisms for easing the transition: healthy diet, exercise, sleep, hobbies, relationships. I'd love to hear an update when things settle out.

Playing with Fire UK

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Re: FIREd two weeks ago, still a little freaked out
« Reply #19 on: July 19, 2017, 10:15:25 AM »
I have many many interests (damn engineers). Beer/wine/cider brewing, gardening/orchard, getting back to golf, start playing guitar again,..... So I don't think boredom will be an issue.
...
Yeah that's one issue I struggle with. If I'm not a Professional Engineer, what the heck am I?

You are mixing up who you are with what you (are paid to) do.

I'm also an engineer, it is a huge part of my self worth/identity/personality. This runs deep in my blood; it began with blocks and was cemented with Meccano. I was an engineer before they paid me to do it and I'll be an engineer after they stop paying me for it. You will always have that curiosity, that desire to optimise, that compulsion to tinker with gadgets that others consider 'not broke' or 'broke beyond repair'.

If anything, you are now a more pure engineer than you were before. You mentioned that you brought in a new client? That sounds like business to me, a dirty, sullied thing for an engineer to do. Now, you only focus on what you find interesting or exciting. This is how engineering progress happens (well, that and war, and this is has a lower body count).

Give it time. Other people may find this an unsuitable answer to "And what do you do?" Who cares? Tell them what you are excited about, tell them about your most recent personal best.

But you sound like an engineer to me, and not having a job doesn't change that in the slightest.

AdrianC

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Re: FIREd two weeks ago, still a little freaked out
« Reply #20 on: July 19, 2017, 11:40:43 AM »
You are mixing up who you are with what you (are paid to) do.

I'm also an engineer, it is a huge part of my self worth/identity/personality. This runs deep in my blood; it began with blocks and was cemented with Meccano. I was an engineer before they paid me to do it and I'll be an engineer after they stop paying me for it. You will always have that curiosity, that desire to optimise, that compulsion to tinker with gadgets that others consider 'not broke' or 'broke beyond repair'.

If anything, you are now a more pure engineer than you were before. You mentioned that you brought in a new client? That sounds like business to me, a dirty, sullied thing for an engineer to do. Now, you only focus on what you find interesting or exciting. This is how engineering progress happens (well, that and war, and this is has a lower body count).

Give it time. Other people may find this an unsuitable answer to "And what do you do?" Who cares? Tell them what you are excited about, tell them about your most recent personal best.

But you sound like an engineer to me, and not having a job doesn't change that in the slightest.
Excellent post. I'm an engineer. I also was an engineer way, way before they paid me to be one.

Great way of thinking about it.

Playing with Fire UK

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Re: FIREd two weeks ago, still a little freaked out
« Reply #21 on: July 19, 2017, 12:09:49 PM »
Excellent post. I'm an engineer. I also was an engineer way, way before they paid me to be one.

Great way of thinking about it.

Thank you.

tomboalogo

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Re: FIREd two weeks ago, still a little freaked out
« Reply #22 on: July 19, 2017, 08:28:11 PM »
Thanks. I've been an engineer since I helped my dad rebuild a V8 at 5 years old, the reminder is a help.

My friends tell me that I'm always very hard on myself, I have to learn how to be nicer to me.

Frompa - no snarky comments yet but a lot of "you're too young ". Unless that's snarky.

I find myself trying to make myself busy and feel bad when I'm not, stupid I know.

Started a morning walk (I live in the country so it's a quiet walk). I used to work out all the time but 'wage slavery' got in the way.

Evanc - yup healthcare taken care of but we pay for prescriptions and dental and chiropractic care, etc. I plan on taking government pension as soon as I qualify (60 I think) which will slow down the drain on the stash.

Playing UK - of course you are right. Many more engineering things I want to do. My house is not energy efficient and now I have time to do that. A net zero home would be awesome.

What I was thinking on this mornings walk was, I need some time to just "be". Sounds a little new-age to me I know but we all seem to agree with the idea that time is needed to decompress so I don't get the retirement bends. ( or go back to work - that would be horrible).

I will update from time to time but I'm very grateful for those who have walked the path and chimed in.

Cheers.

FrugalZony

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Re: FIREd two weeks ago, still a little freaked out
« Reply #23 on: July 19, 2017, 10:29:03 PM »
I FIREd 11 months ago (called it a Sabatical, but was pretty sure, I won't go back soon after leaving) and still am getting used to this, LOL!

You are only two weeks in. As others said, you need to give yourself more time.

Maybe attend a meetup or one of the many upcoming events, to connect with other like minded folks.

Now you get to engineer your FIRE. That sounds like a pretty awesome full time job in my book!
And the stash even pays you for this ;)
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Playing with Fire UK

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Re: FIREd two weeks ago, still a little freaked out
« Reply #24 on: July 20, 2017, 12:41:07 AM »
Frompa - no snarky comments yet but a lot of "you're too young ". Unless that's snarky.

It isn't snarky, but it is badly phrased. What they mean is "You are younger than I imagine myself retiring".

respond2u

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Re: FIREd two weeks ago, still a little freaked out
« Reply #25 on: July 20, 2017, 03:36:59 AM »
If I'm not a Professional Engineer, what the heck am I?


You're the Professional Engineer who gets to decide what he wants to do now that he's grown up and doesn't have to (but could) work for a living :)

CowboyAndIndian

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Re: FIREd two weeks ago, still a little freaked out
« Reply #26 on: July 20, 2017, 09:29:54 AM »
...
I'm also an engineer, it is a huge part of my self worth/identity/personality. This runs deep in my blood; it began with blocks and was cemented with Meccano. I was an engineer before they paid me to do it and I'll be an engineer after they stop paying me for it. You will always have that curiosity, that desire to optimise, that compulsion to tinker with gadgets that others consider 'not broke' or 'broke beyond repair'.
...

Very well put, "Playing with Fire UK".

This paragraph could be exactly written about me!
« Last Edit: July 20, 2017, 04:54:37 PM by CowboyAndIndian »

jim555

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Re: FIREd two weeks ago, still a little freaked out
« Reply #27 on: July 20, 2017, 12:27:25 PM »
I needed like 2 years to adjust.  Give it more time, it is a big life change.

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Re: FIREd two weeks ago, still a little freaked out
« Reply #28 on: July 20, 2017, 01:14:03 PM »
tomboalogo,

I agree with the other posters who observe that adjusting to retirement takes time.  I retired about ten months ago at 52, and my feelings about retirement continue to evolve.  I loved my career, but I find that I am falling in love with retirement.  Find the time to take care of yourself and start thinking about how you want to use the many years ahead in ways that will be satisfying for you. 


I would suggest that you reconsider your assumptions that: 

1) I might get 20 more years on the planet
2) The last 5 will likely suck (old age home or worse)

I think those statistics that show people of your birth year living to an average age of 68 reflect factors like infant morality that no longer affect you.  You will find that a person who has reached 56 is statistically likely to live well past 76, especially in a country with good health care like Canada.   Expecting to live longer should affect the way you approach your finances and other issues. 

The last years of your life don't have to suck, if you take care of yourself.  One of the keys to this is staying physically fit.  Another poster recommended "Younger Next Year."  I haven't read that , but the blurb on Amazon looks interesting.  I can recommend The Barbell Prescription: Strength Training for Life After 40.  It is likely that you will live into your 80s or beyond.  Your own actions will have a large influence on whether you are a frail 80 or a robust. 

My parents are in their mid-80s and in great physical and mental shape.  They live independently, travel around the world, and enjoy themselves immensely.  (They are also in great financial shape, too...)  My father retired relatively young (at about 51), so he has now spent more time enjoying his life in retirement than he did working.  I hope to be able to do the same.  It seems to me that people like you and me who retire in our 50s (or younger) have an incredible opportunity to reinvent ourselves.  Now's your chance to learn the things you always had an interest in but never had the time for.  Guitar?  Welding?  Charity work?  A whole new career?  It is all up to you.  Personally, I really enjoy having changed from the Dad who rarely attended my young daughter's school events because of my high pressure job to being the Dad who attends almost every event.  I really enjoy walking my daughter home from school, knowing that the time is fast approaching when she won't want me to do it anymore. 







retiringearly

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Re: FIREd two weeks ago, still a little freaked out
« Reply #29 on: July 24, 2017, 06:40:20 PM »
It sounds like you left work abruptly. I did too, 2 years ago at age 58. I had known that I could swing it financially for about a year before that. I did the same calculus you did one day and I left.

I took me a good year to adjust. I had some guilt about the way I left - middle of a crisis. I detect some guilt in your description as well. The guilt makes it worse. It all mellows out eventually. I'm pretty happy now, and don't regret the decision. I bet you won't either.

THANKS!

I needed to read this.  I told my boss I was retiring about a month ago.  I felt an immediate sense of relief from anxiety.  But I still feel guilty. 

Retiring at 49?  I am wasting the education and career I have.

I think i will get over it in time.

meatface

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Re: FIREd two weeks ago, still a little freaked out
« Reply #30 on: July 26, 2017, 07:38:13 AM »
The devil makes work for idle hands.

Sorry to quote the freaking bible, but perhaps you simply aren't busy enough. I went through such a period in my life about 15 years ago and it's brain-wracking.

I feel like early retirement, without having gone through it, is somewhat similar to breaking up with a long-time girl/boyfriend; your brain is a bit frazzled and you need some distraction to help get over the break-up. Therefore, I would suggest diving deep into a new hobby, whether it's running, weightlifting, triathlon training, woodworking, blacksmithing (check out Alec Steele for inspiration), gardening, language learning, traveling, or a combination of the above. Or start hanging out with new people. Basically, you need something fresh in your life. Some new scenery, if you will.

Nudel

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Re: FIREd two weeks ago, still a little freaked out
« Reply #31 on: August 05, 2017, 05:44:58 PM »
It's been over a year for me and I'm starting to feel more adjusted to my new reality, finally. I say this not to make you feel down, but to let you know that it takes time. Lots of time. Stuff your day full of personal goals and check off a list as you go if that makes you feel more accomplished or satisfied with your day. Nine to 5 or ten to 4 or whatever you need. Going to a few Meet Up events has been great for me and I've come away knowing more about some inexpensive and interesting hobbies.

There is a Canadian Mustachians group on FB that may be of interest to you.